Fort Baker was an active US military post from 1901 to 1995 when the army turned the lands over to the National Park Service as part of the Golden Gate National Recreaion Area. Even with hundreds of years of stories at this place, here are a few that have been saved. Unlike army records, and military details that are usually easy to find, these stories talk about the lives of the civilians and staff who lived and worked there, as remembered by them.
Conklin: [00:26] I’m trying to get a feeling for how your voice is coming along.
de la Torre [00:28] My voice has a little soprano in it. I like to lower it because it sounds better.
Conklin: [00:38] The volume looks good to me on this machine, actually my voice is a little loud. O.K. I think what we will do is - -
de la Torre [00:50] O.K. you want to start?
Conklin: [01:03] Elizabeth de la Torre, where were you born?
de la Torre [01:05] I was born in Los Angeles, California.
Conklin: [01:08] When were you born?
de la Torre [01:10] June 5, 1916.
Conklin: [01:13] Who were your parents?
de la Torre [01:15] My father was Alexander de la Torre and he was a native Californian, in fact I am a sixth generation Californian. My mother was born in London, England. I’m not quite sure how she got here, but she got here. She lived in Redondo Beach with her mother who was a widow and an uncle who was the Pastor of St. James Church. Now my mother was born in 1884 and she graduated from high school because of her uncle who was an educated Priest and I don’t know how she met my father, have no idea. They were married April 15, 1915 and I was born June 5, 1916. My mother’s maiden name was Mary Jane Malpray , M- A-L-P-R-A-Y. We know very little of her ancestry. Conklin: [02:33] O.K.
de la Torre [02:35] My father’s side we have a genealogy. I went to St. Mary’s grammar school and Roseville High School and to Los Angeles Jr. College. I went to work for the YWCA and the YMCA and at that time World War II broke out. I joined the USO and it was the NCCSUSO (National Catholic Community Service USO) and the week after December 7th the first USO was opened and a few of us -- I don’t know how we got there, somebody got us there -- and we all went to greet all the young service personnel. We had nothing but Colonels come in that day.
Conklin: [03:37] Let me stop for just a second, how old were you?
de la Torre [03:40] 1941 – I was about 25, yeah, I was 25. I couldn’t get a drink though, nobody would give me a drink (laughing). Anyway, we were all there and all we had were Officers, Generals and Colonels and we kept saying to each other “where are the service men – where are the service men?” Well, the day after we were flooded and we were flooded all the time. The USO moved down to Figueroa Street and I was still being a dancing dolly, dancing, and what not.
Conklin: [04:23] Can I stop you here for a second, dancing dolly, is that your personal term?
de la Torre [04:29] That’s my personal term.
Conklin: [04:33] It wasn’t a commonly used expression?
de la Torre [04:35] No, it was my personal term. The lady in charge was a Mrs. Ferguson and one day she called me in the office, and she said, “Elizabeth do you know that the Army has these jobs where you work like we do except on the post with the young, enlisted people?” “No, Mrs. Ferguson.” She said, “Well I know two ladies who are looking for what they call a Jr. Hostess.” I said “Oh.” She said, “I think you would make a good Jr. Hostess.” “I will” I said, “O.K. – why not?” We went out to Santa Anita racetrack, and I went out there and I walked into the lounge for the racetrack, and I looked in there and there were young men as far as I could see. (laughing) I said, “Where is Mrs. So-and-So’s office?” They said, “over there,” and I walked across that room and was never so shocked in all my life that all eyes were on me.
Conklin: [05:50] How did that make you feel?
de la Torre [05:53] I didn’t know – why is this happening – this doesn’t happen.
Conklin: [05:59] Did you feel nervous?
de la Torre [06:01] I think more apprehensive than nervous. I went in and talked to the lady there and she said, “oh, your 25 but your too young looking, I just can’t have you here, I’ve got to have an older looking woman as a Jr. Hostess.” So I said, “Thank you very much” and I went back [to the] USO. Mrs. Ferguson said, “well there is a lady down in San Diego, at Camp Pendelton,” which is now where the San Diego U.C. Campus is in Torrey Pines. I called Mrs. Priest, I guess Mrs. Ferguson called her and I called, her name was Helen Priest, and I made arrangements to go down and meet her. I went down by bus and went to the Post where the guards were at the entrance of the Post. They knew I was coming and so they took me by car to the Service Club. At the Service Club, I was interviewed, and I stayed overnight for a couple of nights and on Monday I went to Post Headquarters and met the Colonel and the Deputy Commander and they were very nice and they said “Oh, she’ll do.” (laughing) I was taken to Civilian Personnel and made out all the papers. Now at that time, I don’t recall what our official title was, but when I went to work at the Presidio that’s when I learned what the official title was. From what I understand, in World War II we were kind of a nebulous state – not clear and defined, or a job title or anything. I think I made about $1,500 a year.
Conklin: [08:18] Now this was in the San Diego Area?
de la Torre [08:21] Yes, because in 1941, I mean 1944. I made the same when I went over to Mitchell Convalescent Hospital. Then I, when the _____ installations closed, went back to Los Angeles and applied to go to the University of California in Berkeley. In between I did some research and I found out that campus did have a program, a recreation program, which was not PE. You learned all kinds of activities, social activities, how to conduct dances, how to control them, tournaments, and stuff like that in a building. So, I applied to U.C. and got admitted and I was in a program they called Group Major and Recreation. We had to take a lot of PE courses, we had to take anatomy, kinesiology courses conducted by one of the men, one of the professors in the men’s department on how to run dances and parties and stuff like that. Of course, I had learned at Camp Pendelton and Mitchell Convalescent Hospital. I had learned these things just by evaporation.
Conklin: [09:44] Let’s back up a minute, you came up here to San Francisco and you were going to U.C. Berkeley?
de la Torre [09:50] Yes.
Conklin: [09:51] When did you start working at the Presidio?
de la Torre [09:54] After I graduated.
Conklin: [09:56] O.K.
de la Torre [09:58] I graduated in 1950 and reapplied here in 6th Army and they called me over and, at that time we had like, in the 6th Army area, we had like 20 or so Posts. Like at Ft Booth they had like four. Ft. Ord had about four. We had three at the Presidio; one at the Presidio, one at Ft. Baker and one at Ft. Cronkite. I applied and I was interviewed. They made me stay through evening activities and Col. Schoupen came, he was the Special Services Officer. Col. Schoupen, I must tell you, everybody always used to say he looks exactly like Adolph Monsheu (sp). (laughing) That’s what Col. Schoupen looked like, Adolph Monsheu (sp). I was to stay for the evening activities and what not and I guess I impressed him favorably. I was called a few days later and said that Col. Schoupen has selected you of all the ones we have interviewed. That was fine. So, I moved over to, we lived on Post in Bldg. 116, so I moved over to the Post and started to work. Service Clubs operated seven days a week.
Conklin: [11:28] O.K...– I’d like to talk about where you lived for a minute. In the building, who else was in the building with you?
de la Torre [11:34] Oh, one librarian and – no, two librarians and three Service Club people.
Conklin: [11:45] So, this was a single woman’s dormitory?
de la Torre [11:51] Yes.
Conklin: [11:52] How big was your room? Was it just a room with a bed and a dresser? Can you describe your room? de la Torre [12:03] Yeah, one had, we had nice beds, single beds, actually more like a ¾ size bed. We had a couple of dressers and a closet. We had a shower and a toilet, one upstairs and one downstairs. So, let’s see, two women lived downstairs and three lived upstairs.
Conklin: [12:41] Did you each have a separate room or did you have to share a room?
de la Torre [12:44] No, we each had a separate room. We also had a kitchen and a kind of a dining room and we prepared our own meals. We did not shop at the Commissary because we weren’t allowed to. We used to go off Post by bus to the Marina, to the Safeway there and get our stuff. A lot of times we decided we needed to walk back, so we walked back. Drivers would see us and pick us up outside and bring us back to our quarters. We did eat at the Officers Club occasionally but we didn’t overdo it.
Conklin: [13:26] Was it difficult living with people that you worked with?
de la Torre [13:29] I didn’t find it difficult because most of us had friends in town or relatives or something and our days off – we took off. So, on our days off we didn’t spend most times in the dormitory. I had a sister who lived in Berkeley so I’d go over to Berkeley and nearly everybody left. We didn’t spend that much time, off duty time, with each other.
Conklin: [13:59] Did you all get along pretty well?
de la Torre [14:01] Umm, some better than others. We had some women who for some reason I don’t know why acted like they were “God’s Gift” to these young people. They were not liked by the young people. If you walked in like “I’m doing you a favor” you couldn’t get them to participate in the program; they just would not do it. You’d try to explain it to them, you don’t do that to these people. “Well, after all I am a college graduate,” oh, it was terrible. Those people usually didn’t last very long because we had mostly male personnel and I started getting acquainted with some of the women and I encouraged the women to come. Some of the women who were in the jobs like I did not want to deal with the young women in the service and I didn’t think that was fair. So, I started getting acquainted with the young women and asking them to come over and I would see to it that they were included in everything. We got along all right you know.
Conklin: [15:22] What were your responsibilities on a daily basis? What was a typical day like?
de la Torre [15:27] There was hardly a “typical” day. Every day we had two or three different programs plus self-directed activity. The big room on the East side of Building 135, we had 3 pool tables, snooker, and billiards. Those two didn’t get used that much, they were used by older men, particularly Sergeants who used to come in and use those tables. Two ping pong tables and shuffleboard table, so they would check out equipment from the desk, but at the office they would check out pool balls and que stick and a triangle.
Conklin: [16:15] Did they have to leave you any identification or ---
de la Torre [16:17] They had to just sign and we checked their ID cards. We were not allowed to take their ID cards because they signed we checked their ID cards. Afterwards you got to know them so you didn’t bother, you know. Jerry Garcia apparently used our Service Club, which I found out in reading about him. When he was at the Presidio he spent a great deal of time in the recreation area practicing on a box guitar. The only place he would have gotten a box guitar was then at the Service Club. We had six Gibson J50 guitars, we had a couple of trumpets, a slide horn, base fiddle, we had three pianos.
Conklin: [17:11] Did you have any sound proof [practice] rooms that people played in by themselves?
de la Torre [17:18] When I was first there, they went to the different rooms that we had. Later on, we built sound proof rooms and that helped a lot. Service Clubs, when ours was built there was no directives from Washington as to what was supposed to be contained in a Service Clubs. Afterwards, Montain Abernathy (sp) became in charge of all the Service Clubs and Service Club personnel. She had been in Europe, she went to the Engineers Dept. and said, “this is how these buildings have to be built” and once she practically crowned them over their heads because the buildings were built the way they were supposed to be built. She designed them and then they started building them. The building we had at the Presidio was a beautiful building but non-functional as they come.
Conklin: [18::24] What was her biggest complaint?
de la Torre [18:26] Our biggest complaint was that we didn’t have enough smaller individual rooms for small things to be done. Of course the pool room was a big room, but that was great because lot’s of people played pool. Once a week we had pool tournaments and at the same time we had a shuffleboard and ping pong tournaments. On Sunday we had stage shows brought in from town. On Monday we had, once a month we had a talent show and otherwise we had a quiz show. Tuesday we had ---
Conklin: [19:09] Did you make up the questions for the quiz show? How did the quiz show get put together?
de la Torre [19:14] Go to the library (laughing) and getting all kinds of books. I had such a great time when I first worked at the Presidio. We had a lot of men who were college graduates, so they’d say “hey – let me make it up” and I’d say “fine” and they’d go to the Library and they’d make up the quiz show. It was great; we’d have 50-60 people participating in the quiz show.
Conklin: [19:39] Do you have any of the questions? Did you keep any of that material?
de la Torre [19:43] I may have, out in my storage area.
Conklin: [19:48] That would be interesting to see.
de la Torre [19:50] Yeah, I’ll have to get all that stuff out and then take it to you. Wednesday, I don’t recall, Thursday we had our dances and people wanted to know why do you have dances on Thursday? I didn’t know why they did it so I used to tell them “oh, so that’s early enough so you can get the neighborhood girl and call her on Friday for date,” [laughing] then some of the people who were in charge, because I was a junior employee.
Conklin: [20:28] A Junior Hostess?
de la Torre [20:30] No, by this time, I was a Program Director. The Junior Hostess business was only in 44-46. After World War II, in the early 50’s they changed our title to GS 188 Social and Recreation Specialist and so then you were a Club Director or a Program Director. I was a Program Director and the Club Director kind of looked at me funny when she heard what I was telling the fellows. I said “it’s the truth and you know it” and they used to laugh at me. The men used to laugh at me, “oh, Miss de la Torre, your so funny, your so funny”and I would say “wasn’t that right – if we had the dance on Friday you couldn’t ask somebody for a date on Saturday” and they’d say “that’s right.” The USO did not want the girls going out with the men.
Conklin: [21:31] I understood you imported girls by the busload? How did that go?
de la Torre [21:34] Yeah, well, we used to order buses, that was one of my tasks was to prepare the request list for buses, once a month. We went to various places, we went to the student nurses homes, and we went to the YWCA. We went to, there was a place on Page and Market and it was a woman’s residence and I forget the name of it. We’d send out like 3 buses and they would bring all these girls in. In 1964, that source started to drop, we started having more trouble and in 1964, Marge Sheffield (sp) was hired by the USO and she organized girls just to go out to military installations. They were called USO Girls on the Go. They didn’t attend the programs at the USO on Market Street. They just came to go out to military installations and so they were doing all this organizing, what one are we going to send them to. By that time, I’d been ostracized (laughing) to Ft. Baker.
Conklin: [22:59] Well, how did you get ostracized to Fr. Baker?
de la Torre [23:01] There was some politics involved and I’m not a good politician.
Conklin: [23:06] What was that about?
de la Torre [23:09] Well, it was the woman who was at Ft. Ord, she didn’t think I was doing a good job and somehow she, oh, by this time they had a Post Service Club Director.
Conklin: [23:21] How would someone way down in Ft. Ord know about what you were doing in San Francisco?
de la Torre [23:25] Oh, I don’t know – well she was friends with the woman who was in charge, the Post Service Club Director. I guess I had done a few funny things, but everything I did was to encourage enlisted.
Conklin: [23:38] What do you think those few funny things were? It would be interesting.
de la Torre [23:41] Probably, sometimes they thought I was too friendly with them and I spent too much time talking to them because they’ve got a few questions you know. Little Joe would come in, hang dog “what’s the matter?”________(laughing) and I’d say “well, let’s talk about it” and we’d go over and talk about it. I think they didn’t want me to be real funny with these young troops but I was 34 years old. These kid’s are 20 years old so that’s why they considered me their “big sister” and we would talk about things. They would ask me all kinds of things and they’d say, “oh, your not supposed to talk about this” “why not?” They’ve got to ask somebody, might as well ask me.
Conklin: [24:31] When we spoke earlier you [said you]were never [their] Mother.
de la Torre [24:35] That’s right, I wasn’t. I’d tell them, “I’m your big sister.” One of them came in and called me a mother – NO WAY – I said; “I’m your big sister.” “I’m not your mother – just remember that.”
Conklin: [24:56] Why was that important?
de la Torre [24:58] To me? Because I thought as a big sister they might be more at ease telling me things that they really wanted to know. You’d be surprised some of the questions about sex they asked me.
Conklin: [25:02] Can you tell me?
de la Torre [25:04] Well, I can’t remember now but I’d say, “but WHAT?”
Conklin: [25:08] About the mechanics or….
de la Torre [25:10] Anything, really and I’d say, “I can’t believe it – didn’t your mother ever tell you anything? Did you pick up everything at school?” “No, Ma’am, I didn’t.” So, I’d tell them, sometimes I’d tell them where to find some books or to go to the hospital and see a doctor about it. Now some of the girls and young women would come to me and one came and said to me she was pregnant and I said “Oh, no.”
Conklin: [25:39] How did the Army view that?
de la Torre [25:41] Not very well at that time, they were discharged.
Conklin: [25:45] This was what year?
de la Torre [25:47] In the 50’s. I would say to them, “well, you might as well confess it and you might as well get a discharge right now.” “Well, I can’t go home, my parents will kill me,” so I said, “well I know a few places in San Francisco” which I guess I wasn’t supposed to but who are they going to go to? Who are they going to go to? So, I sent a number of them to that St. Elizabeth’s Home on Masonic. I got acquainted with the Sisters. I went in my little uniform and I told them that some of these young women are going to be booted out of the Army and they can’t go home and what’s the procedure and the Nun’s would say,“send them over here we’ll take care of them, we’ll take care of the paperwork.” So that’s where I’d send the young women.
Conklin: [26:45] Do you think it was this that started to get you in trouble?
de la Torre [26:50] I think it did, yeah, yeah. They couldn’t get it from the hospital. So, anyway, I got sent to Ft. Baker.
Conklin: [27:00] Do you know the building number or the streets, I’m just worried the building numbers somehow may have changed.
de la Torre [27:06] Ft. Baker, the building is no longer in existence, it’s been torn down. I was over there last year and it had been the Post Theatre at one time. I went there and – oh, it’s gone (laughing). Then I was sent for a while, right early when I started in the early 50’s I went to when we opened Ft. Cronkite the woman in charge, I remember seeing her, I can’t remember her name. One day, she said “I don’t want to do this” and she just walked out. Col. Schoupen, good old Col .Schoupen, said “well, Elizabeth, you go over and take care of it” “WHAT?”
Conklin: [27:58] So, you were moved to Ft. Baker - - -
de la Torre [28:00] First I was moved, in the early 50’s, I was moved to Ft. Cronkite until they could hire another Service Club Director.
Conklin: [28:10] Where did you live, still back on the Post?
de la Torre [28:14] Yeah, we lived on Post, but you see we have a bus system that went throughout, it went all the way out to Ft. Cronkite. I would take the bus home and the bus driver, the last run, he’d come in and get me. Conklin: [28:28] Was there a difference in the mood and the feeling kind of being way out in the “boonies” as you were at Cronkite versus the Main Post?
de la Torre [28:37] Yes, they felt like they were ostracized out there, they were the people that ran the missile sites. There is one missile site where a missile still is and they were the ones who ran and who were out there in the missile site. Of course those missiles were manned 24 hours a day. So, they kind of felt ostracized. We had the USO girls come out there and have dances and we did much the same program. We, at Ft. Baker, Dorothy Webb was there, she was the Club Director and between Dorothy and me and the woman who was Club Director at the Presidio, we’d call each other up and say “let’s have a picnic.” We’d find a place to have a picnic and we’d order buses and we’d go get the food and just take everybody to a picnic.
Conklin: [29:32] That was part of your budget, to pay for the food?
de la Torre [29:36] Yeah, the Army paid for the food. That was originally on the non-appropriated funds budget. Do you know what the difference between the appropriated and non-appropriated?
Conklin: [29:43] I don’t know if we really need to talk about it.
de la Torre [29:46] O.K. So, we’d go to the Commissary and get it then we’d take picnics out. We used to plan those a month ahead of time so we could order the buses and get the food and get the people signed up. [We’d] go to wherever we were going and reserve the park or whatever we were doing.
Conklin: [29:56] What parks would you go to – what locations?
de la Torre [30:00] We went to Golden Gate Park and there were locations at Ft. Cronkite. We’d just go down to the beach and have picnic on the beach. We would go over to the East Bay to Regional Parks and we’d take picnics over there.
Conklin: [30:29] How were you received by the general populace at these parks? Was this a time when the military was respected and liked? It changed over time.
de la Torre [30:29] Yeah that changed, but at that time that was Korean War and right afterwards. We didn’t have too much trouble. In fact, people would come over and join us.
Conklin: [30:51] We are going to stop now and I will turn the tape over.
(Side B Tape 1 of 1) [00:00] The dances that you would plan, you mentioned earlier when we talked on the phone about “funny business” and that you had to keep a control of the “funny business.” What was that about?
de la Torre [00:12] Well, you know how young people are, they start poking each other and some of the older men who came to the dances, they’d try to sneak a bottle in and I’d have to go up and say…..
Conklin: [00:30] So, the motion of you are making, wagging your finger back and forth and then you’d do the beckoning finger.
de la Torre [00:37] And then we’d go outside and I’d say “you know your not supposed to do that, you know there is no liquor allowed in this building.” Then I’d act mad if I thought I could get away with it – “no I’m sorry.” Then I’d say, “you can come back, but you get rid of the bottle” and usually they didn’t get mad at me. Every once in while a fight would break out – really a fight on the dance floor and of course all the girls would go “ugh.” I’d walk right out there and usually somebody would follow me. I’d walk right out there and I’d say “what do you think your doing” and they would stop, you know. I’d take them by the hand, each one and I’d walk them outside and in front of Bldg. 135. There’s this great big circular lawn and I’d say, “you go over there and fight on that lawn and I’m standing here.” Everybody would laugh and I’d say “go back to dancing, go back,” you know. I’d just stand there and pretty soon they’d walk off together. Of course you had girls trying to outdo each other and I’d say, “all right girls, take it easy.” When I first worked at the Presidio we used to have a group of Black African American girls [that] used to come with this very, very nice older lady. At that time they did not want the races mixing at dances. Finally we got over that.
Conklin: [02:28] How did you work all that?
de la Torre [02:31] Well, it was the African American girls. If a Caucasian young man asked her to dance she would say “no, thank you” and if African American soldiers – you must remember this was right after Truman, his edict that was ’49, this was early 50’s. It took about five years to get over that and the woman who was in charge when I was first there, she was adamant about black and whites not dancing together. When she left things were easing up.
Conklin: [03:23] Was there ever a point where blacks and whites did dance together?
de la Torre [03:27] Oh, sure, I would say about 1955-56 and I’d say that this has to cease. I was now in charge and I said, “everybody dance together.” Even some of our black girls in service felt kind of funny when they found that anybody – like Miss de la Torre said, “anybody could dance with anybody.” After all, we are all in the Army together. Then, everybody danced together.
Conklin: [03:59] Do you remember the first time, the first interracial couple started dancing, what was that like?
de la Torre [04:05] No, I don’t remember, I just didn’t make an issue of it. By that time, everybody had gotten used to it, so from then on it continued. One thing about the people, who worked there, we were not allowed to dance. We were there to supervise and be in charge and they were very, very particular about that, which, to me, was fine.
Conklin: [04:32] The Park Historian specifically wanted to have me ask you some questions, so I want to make sure we get those in now. Do you remember any murals or artwork or paintings? How did they first decorate the building or furnish it?
de la Torre [04:48] Well, when it was first opened, oh, I must tell you, you should know where the money for this building came from and how.
Conklin: [04:56] That’s probably recorded, so that’s O.K.
de la Torre [05:00] O.K. The building opened on May 4, 1949 and it was opened by General Mark Clark and they had a big program. I wasn’t there. At the back of the building over the fireplace there was a big mural, great big mural.
Conklin: [05:20] Do you know what happened to it? de la Torre [05:22] When they repainted the building, it got painted out.
Conklin: [05:27] Did they actually paint on top of the mural, or did they put a piece of wood over it and painted that?
de la Torre [05:34] No, they just painted it over. It’s too bad, but that was determined not by me, but by other people. We had Mrs. Mark Clark helped to select the furniture originally.
Conklin: [05:50] Was it military issue furniture or downtown Sloanes?
de la Torre [05:56] No, wherever they got it because, but it was regular home kind of furniture. It was not military and it was not institutional, it was like it was at home. In the big lounge, we had three passenger sofas set around with club chairs around and we had tables for them to play games, and they were spotted around. Everything was done to make it as “homelike” as possible.
Conklin: [06:33] Furniture, being upholstered or naugahyde or - - -
de la Torre [06:37] The first group was upholstered and it was very, very nice. I do remember the rugs were placed between, there was space between the rugs. That building from the balcony to the windows is about 40 feet wide. These rugs ran the whole way and there would be thick holes and there was a space between the rugs. The rugs were green and they were the, what do they call those, were they sculptured or you know what I mean, they have a pattern cut into them.
Conklin: [07:24] Sculptured, cut into the material?
de la Torre [07:26] Yeah, and then the furniture all harmonized with that. All the furniture was upholstered. The chairs for the square tables, where they could play cards and things, those were all upholstered. In about 8 years, all of it wore out – just wore out. We had to get some new furniture.
Conklin: [07:55] You didn’t have it refinished, you just bought new?
de la Torre [07:58] No, we got new furniture. This time we changed the rugs, we changed the whole thing. We got new drapes.
Conklin: [08:09] Who did that? Who did you - - -
de la Torre [08:13] We, through supply.
Conklin: [08:18] You got to decide?
de la Torre [08:21] Oh, yes, yes. Through supply we got contacts of people we, you know, wholesalers and we brought them out. What we did, we got very big swatches of drapes and carpeting and we put them there and we said to the people who used it, “what colors do you want?” It was amazing how they all selected about the same colors. When we put it out, they said, “oh, you got the colors we asked for.” I thought, since they use the building, that they should have something to say. It made them feel more like they belonged. The drapes in the big lounge are like 20 feet tall and they cost an arm and a leg and I don’t know what the budget was because I wasn’t involved in that. Somebody else was involved; I don’t know who but probably Special Services Officer and Supply. They let us do the selecting with the personnel. The furniture had worn out and the chairs, after being pushed back and forth for about 10 years, they were coming apart. We got new chairs and this time we got round tables because we found when we played games round tables had more space. I think they were 42” and there was also a place to put little bowls with refreshments on. On the square tables, there wasn’t this space. We had contests.
Conklin: [10:01] There were some very important historically significant events that took place at the Club. On August 30, 1951 there was the signing of the Tri-Partite Security Treaty. What do you remember of that?
de la Torre [10:19] What do I remember of that – oh, I had just started to work there and we used to have a program called “Report from the Armed Services.” There was this very handsome Sergeant who had worked on radio and TV in Los Angeles and he was with Public Affairs. I was included in preparing this building for that. Col. Schoupen decided I would represent Special Services and go down and appear on TV. So, they drilled me and this handsome Sergeant drilled me of the questions they’d ask and what I was to tell. So, I went down in a staff car (laughing) went up to this TV studio, I don’t even remember which one it was, all I know it was in the Fairmont Hotel. I went on the show and handsome Sergeant asked me all these questions and just described what was going on and everything, you know, and when I came back, everybody said, “you look like you’ve been on TV all your life.” (laughing) I was scared to death. I told them what was happening and they gave me all the information. Col. Schoupen said I just think of you the star of TV of all the staff members (laughing) and I said “Oh, God.”
Conklin: [12:04] So what was it like, was it exciting, scary?
de la Torre [12:07] No, it was exciting, it was exciting. They started setting it up and they brought in all kinds of stuff from commercial companies with chairs to set up the place. They brought in these people that you hire to bring in plants and things. They brought that in and they decided that I was going to be the one that was going to tell them what to do and they gave me the – here I am the newest one on the staff -- and they gave me all this. Here is the way they had done it and so I had to meet all these people. I don’t know where the other staff members went to, I have no idea.
Conklin: [12:51] But you set up, physically set up the meeting?
de la Torre [12:53] No, they gave me the instructions and I had to tell the people, here’s what your supposed to do. Here is where the big table goes and here’s the flags and all that. The man with the plants, here’s where the plants are to as I have these plans.
Conklin: [13:07] Did it all go according to plan or are there any amusing stories or any catastrophes?
de la Torre [13:12] Well, I tell you what, and after I do all this work, oh, we had Secret Service walking around the building all the time and that building was just, had the latest security measures they had, because we had important people coming in.
Conklin: [13:25] Who, could you remember?
de la Torre [13:30] Well, somebody from New Zealand, somebody from Australia and somebody from Japan. These were like consulate members or Ambassadors or somebody. After I do all this work I’d say to the chief security man, “well, are you going to give me a pass so I can be here and see all this?” He looked at me and said “NO”, I said, “after all doing all the work – why can’t I be here?”
Conklin: [14:00] So you weren’t there for the event?
de la Torre [14:03] Uh, uh, and I went to a friend’s house and watched it on TV. It was a warm day and they had all the soldiers there standing at attention and one of them fainted, I remember that. One of the young soldiers fainted and it was really something.
Conklin: [14:23] The next month, September 9, 1951, United States and Japanese Delegates signed a Joint Security Pact, do you remember. [She is answering the telephone so I’ll turn the tape off] We were talking about the United States and Japanese Delegates that signed the Security Pact, were you allowed? Did you again set up but couldn’t go? How did that work?
de la Torre [14:45] No, it was [a] much lesser affair and I was there, but I was just in the audience.
Conklin: [14:54] What were your impressions? Anything noteworthy?
de la Torre [14:57] Oh, very stuffy (laughing) and it was so formal and all that. But I was just there and I thought it was just kind of nice to be there and I was helping people, you know where people were supposed to sit and we had signs on all the seats. You always need to help somebody, so I was kind of helping out.
Conklin: [15:19] Did anybody, any particular person impress you favorably or unfavorably?
de la Torre [15:25] I was impressed with the people from Australia and New Zealand, I liked them.
Conklin: [15:31] Now this is back at the Tri- Partite Security Treaty Meeting, right?
de la Torre [15:36] No, this was the one later on in August.
Conklin: [15:38] Right, and then in September, the Japanese and United States Delegates had a Joint Security Pact. I thought you were telling me the differences between the two meetings. The Japanese event was less formal, less scary.
de la Torre [15:54] Yeah, yes. So, it was less formal and I don’t think the Band was there or all the soldiers, Honor Guard or all that. For the first one, Honor Guards and all the works you know, just absolutely all the works.
Conklin: [16:15] Apparently during the Korean War high ranking Officers of the Chinese National Army from Taiwan had a press interview at the Club. Do you remember that?
de la Torre [16:24] I don’t remember that at all.
Conklin: [16:26] Between August 23rd and September 23rd of 1953, there were 8 Army Transports bearing former American Prisoners of War docked at Ft. Mason and the men who were unable to meet their families apparently were brought to your Club, can you talk about that?
de la Torre [16:48] That’s right. Yes, they brought all these young men and I don’t know who supplied all the wonderful food but we had all this wonderful food and I would go around and sit and talk to them. We also had the telephone people set up telephones in there and they got to make calls, long distance calls to their homes. The telephone people took care of that there was a regular procedure they went through and then they would call them. I’d go around and sit and talk with them and what not and they’d tell me their experiences. I spent all my 8 hrs. there just sitting and talking with them, asking them where they were from and where they were going back to, what they were going to do.
Conklin: [17:33] Were they meeting their families at your Club?
de la Torre [17:36] Some of them did, but from the Club there transportation arranged to take them to a plane or train or a bus where they were going to go, but not a great number of families came.
Conklin: [17:54] I guess we will move on to something that I find very interesting. Describe your usual clientele before and after the draft.
de la Torre [18:06] O.K. In the early 50’s I remember most. In Headquarters Company 6th Army there was, they had 23 men who had passed the Bar in their local State they had come from, and they had the “plumb” jobs on Post. A lot of them worked in JAG (The Judge Advocate General) and they worked with the lawyers because there were a lot a problems with a lot of these young people at the time. Conklin: [18:47] Problems?
de la Torre [18:48] Well, sometimes I guess they were trying to get out of service or they had family problems. I’ll never forget one day when one of the men came. You must remember all of these men were lower ranking enlisted. None of them ever made Sergeants and they had law degrees. I would say to them “why don’t you become an Officer.” “Two years in and I’m gone!” (laughing) This one young man came in and said, “I’ve got a story to tell you.” I said “What?” He said, “a Sergeant died” and he said, “we are getting calls from around the world, everywhere he went, he got married. The latest today, number 23 called!” (laughing) Those are the kind of problems those people handled. I said “How – 23?” He said “yep.”
Conklin: [19:50] Basically they are highly educated and wanted to go on with their lives.
de la Torre [20:00] At that time, I was again sent down, I don’t know why they made me do it but I was the little ______so I did it. They sent me down to the War Memorial Opera House to see Mr. Schesede (sp) and another man. Mr. Schesede was in charge of the Symphony and they sent me down to see Mr. Schesede and see if I could con free Symphony tickets out of him. Well, they were very nice and we got maybe 100 tickets a week but you must remember that time, and the 6th Army Band was close to 100 people. Many of the people in the 6th Army Band had been music makers in college and they stayed on Base enlisted as the 6th Army Band and stayed 3 years. We had lots of people who could take tickets to the Symphony. Then in the other companies we had lots of men with graduate degrees. I just announced symphony tickets and there they were. It was a little different with the Opera, I didn’t have as much success with the Opera. Occasionally, I forget the name of the man, I used to call him, he would give me Opera tickets, but not many, you know like a dozen. When the Stator-Wells (sp) Ballet came we got 100 tickets to that and then I was sent down to talk to Lou Loury. Lou Loury owned the Curran, the Geary and lot’s of property and I explained to him what my mission was, complimentary tickets for the enlisted people. He said “for the enlisted?” I said, “That’s right Mr. Loury, the enlisted.” So, I would call him up and he would say, “sure, come on down.” Practically every show that opened in the 50’s, he gave us 100 tickets for opening night. Then afterwards I started getting acquainted with some of the other theatre managers and I would ask for tickets and I didn’t get 100 like from Mr. Loury, but we’d get maybe 50 tickets or 25 tickets for opening night or for shows. It meant a lot to those young people. At first we used to take them down in a bus and after about 4 years of begging these managers “do they still have to come in their uniforms when you give me the tickets like this, you know they are well behaved?” Do I have to escort them down in the bus and take them all, after all we have a lot of men in their mid-twenties.” So they said “no, they have proven themselves.”
Conklin: [23:04] They were worried that they wouldn’t act right and that’s why?
de la Torre [23:08] Um, yes, you know people had these funny ideas, especially about enlisted people. When I would tell Mr. Loury….
Conklin: [23:18] Funny meaning?
de la Torre [23:20] Well, these strange ideas that because they were enlisted they were uncouth, not when you have a guy with a Ph.D.! So, after about 5 years I talked them into just giving me the tickets and giving it to them.
Conklin: [23:36] We talked earlier that there was a decided change with the personnel after…
de la Torre [23:43] Oh, yeah, after ‘72, lower educational level, and it was interesting to watch when we had so many college people and better educated. A well, a lot of them hadn’t finished, you know they were drafted. It was interesting to see them talk to the others who hadn’t had the opportunity. They [would] say “gee, your lucky you went to college” and they’d tell them, “well, get a job, that’s how I did it.” We planned a program that ran for months and each month we’d give them things they’d have to see and do in San Francisco. They’d have to bring their facts, they would have this paper they would sign and have somebody sign that they had went to a museum or something like that. That went on for months. Now that went very well with those people. When we tried that after ‘72 when we had just enlistees, it did not fly.
Conklin: [24:51] What else was different?
de la Torre [24:55] Well, the feeling in the Club. There was a feeling like they were drafted and they were going to do their 2 years and they were not going to get into trouble. While they were in San Francisco they were going to take advantage of the City. They would take advantage of the good parts of the City. They would come in and tell me they belonged to one of the Sororities, do they have one at Cal or Stanford. I’d say “well, I think so, let me call, I’ll find out” and I’d say “yes.” I’d ask for the contact and the men would go and that would be the last I ever saw them when they found their fraternities at Cal and Stanford. I helped them find them and they were gone. They would come in when they were being discharged and say “thanks for helping me, I had a wonderful time while I was here.” You see, I didn’t have that when we got more enlistees, it was just hard to challenge them. The more educated people, they were up to a challenge and they’d say to you, “well, why can’t you do so and so?” and I’d say, “well, why don’t you do it” like you know, “surely you can do a better quiz then this.” I’d say "well you go to the library and do it” and they’d say “o.k.” and they would go do it. In fact quiz contests dropped, they weren’t interested, they just liked to shoot pool and play cards. I had a hard time getting them to play Monopoly or any of the games like that.
Conklin: [26:38] Did they want your private counseling as much as the earlier group.
de la Torre [26:41] No, they didn’t, no, they didn’t. I didn’t have them asking questions. We also had to be more strict about dances. The dances got a little more rough. They got a little tougher.
Conklin: [26:59] More fights or more sexual trouble?
de la Torre [27:01] Well, we did have some of that.
Conklin: [27:03] People dancing a little to intimately? Would that be the problem?
de la Torre [27:07] Yes, (laughing) and the girls would come to me. “I won’t dance with him” “why” “well, you know what he does.”
Conklin: [27:20] I love that little finger gesture you do, that little beckoning, what’s this finger called the pointer finger? For the benefit of the tape, I’m trying to describe your pointer finger. (both laughing)
de la Torre [27:35] I’d just go like this, “Johnny!” – we’d go in the office and I’d say “I just had a complaint from one of the girls and you know you don’t have to dance like that.” “I’m sorry Ma’am, I won’t do it again.” (laughing) I had more of that later on, the older men were much more proper. Of course dancing changed too because we used to have the 6th Army Band that played the 50’s and 60’s stuff. Enter the 60’s and 70’s and you get rock and roll and so it just kind of changed.
Conklin: [28:19] Did you have much of a “gay” clientele, homosexual people?
de la Torre [28:23] We knew who they were. They stayed to themselves and everybody knew who they were. Some of them were very nice and some of them were invited to play cards with other people. As long as they kept their place we didn’t have any trouble with them. We knew who they were; we never said anything about it.
Conklin: [28:49] As long as they kept to their place, meaning?
de la Torre [28:52] They didn’t make any advances to the other people. I did know over at Ft. Baker where there was one man who was a real problem and they sent him to the hospital. Unfortunately, I learned after he got out of the Army, I learned from some source that he was from Mississippi or someplace like that, that he had been murdered. He was a problem and he was kind of overt. I was always having to tell him to calm down, don’t do that, and of course the Colonel knew that he was a problem too.
Conklin: [29:35] We’re almost at the end of the interview, is there anything that you wanted to add?
de la Torre [29:39] Well, all I know is that I enjoyed working there, I had a lot of fun (laughing).
Conklin: [29:53] What years again, you started in…
de la Torre [29:55] I started in May 1, 1951.
Conklin: [30:00] And your last day of work was?
de la Torre [30:02] September 30, 1985. But there’s a lot more I can tell you.
Conklin: [30:09] Well, I think what we did was hit the high points on this interview and I told the Historian that I would give him the tape and the questions and if he want’s more about the topics. Well, thank you very much for your help today, it was fun.
de la Torre [30:23] Yeah, if he wants more, yeah. You’re welcome!
Mine Tender Leaving Ft. Baker
Golden Gate NRA, Park Archives, GOGA 35339
"the mine planter would go out and grab the broken loose, the mine that was broken loose" -Jerry Parr
Jerry Parr
Discussion with Jerry Parr About his time with the military in the bay area especially a recuperation ward at Fort Baker
Bankie: This is Brett Bankie, National Park Ranger from the Presidio, San Francisco. Interviewing Mr. Jerry Parr at his home in Milpitas, California. January 12th, 1994. 1994. Whoops. Do I have your permission to tape record you today, on your history, your experiences at the Presidio? Jerry: Sure do. Bankie: Okay. I'm going to move the tape recorder to the side, so we both forget that it's even here. We can just talk at our normal levels. Jerry: Yes. Bankie: First, I wanted to ask you, in what capacity did you serve on the Presidio? Jerry: To what capacity? Bankie: Yeah. What was your jobs? Where were you stationed? Jerry: Well, I went in there as a Coast Artillery man. As a 155 Rifleman, until they found out I was a cable splicer in the phone company. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: But then before, like I say, I can't, for dates, I can't remember. But, how long after I arrived there, I got yellow jaundice, I'm not too sure. And it wasn't too long. And I spent most of the time in the hospital, on the base, with yellow jaundice. More than half the hospital floor had yellow jaundice. From what I understand, they had the Mayo Clinic people come out to find out where the yellow jaundice came from. And like I say, from what I understand, it came from a bad yellow fever shot when I left San Diego. Bankie: Oh, it did? Jerry: Yeah. Bankie: Okay. So what year, or do you remember the date that you arrived in the Presidio or the area? Jerry: My wife could tell you more about that. Mrs. Parr: '42, wasn't it Gerald? Jerry: It was '42. Mrs. Parr: Because you went in, we were married in '41. Jerry: Yeah. Mrs. Parr: December of '41, and then ... Jerry: What month in '42? Mrs. Parr: You were called up in January, I thought. Jerry: Yeah. And I spent a month down in Monterey. Mrs. Parr: And went down to- Jerry: I went down to Camp Callan, and as long as the basic training, I don't remember how long it was. Mrs. Parr: It must've been May or June, Jerry. Jerry: Huh? Mrs. Parr: It must've been May or June, because you went to Missouri in July. Jerry: That's right, okay. May or June. Bankie: Okay. So, you were from the San Francisco area? Jerry: Oh, I lived in Oakland. Yeah, all my life. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: I'm a third generation in this country. Bankie: All right. Okay. Jerry: Yeah. I lived in east Oakland. Bankie: So, they sent you right back here and then you ended up being assigned to the Presidio of the Coast Artillery? Jerry: I got a little story why they sent me out. Bankie: All right. Jerry: And I was mad at myself. Because I was a Coast Artillery man coming into Fort Baker. And I only fired 55's once, the group. We missed the target by the way. But, then I got shipped up there, and for some reason they looked over my records, I guess, and found out that I was a cable splicer for the phone company in Hayward, Fremont, Fremont wasn't in existence then. But, they put me on the, I guess they called it the Niles Auxiliary. The Auxiliary boat that was ... from what I can understand, the big Niles, which was a wooden boat, would get a word that one of the mines broke loose or something like that. And they would start out, but we would go out first, because they had to wait for the submarine net to drop, and get crossed, and all that kind of stuff. And we'd go out there, and I might say, that Sergeant, who was the head of that boat, he was the Captain or the Skipper, he'd go out there, and you couldn't see the bow of the boat. He'd go out right exactly where he wanted to go. And no radar. Didn't have radar in those days. Bankie: Yeah, that's right. Jerry: And I was marveled at that man. I'll tell you, but anyway, we'd go out and we'd anchor at the spot near the junction box. Of all the mines come into a junction box. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And the mine planner would go out and grab the broken loose, the mine that was broken loose, and attach a cable to it, or the cable wire, and then throw us a line. And they would grapple for the junction box, and throw us a line, and we'd pull it up on our bow. And that's where I came in. All the deckhands. There was only about four deckhands. That's all. And I would straddle that thing, take the top off, put the new cable in, take the old cable out, that broke. Put the new one in. Put the top back on, and here's where I would never forget. Every time we did this, I'd tell the Sergeant, okay, tell him to give it a rotate. And they would step this thing around, they'd go, click, click, click, click, click. You know, they could fire any one of the mines no matter where it was. And every click I heard, I says, "Don't pull the wrong switch. Don't pull the wrong," because that's the only thing. See, they could fire it as it went through, just flip it through and then I got the word from the sergeant that everything was good. So, the deckhands threw it back over and we went home. But, that's about all I ever did. Bankie: Now, what kind of training did you get to do this? Jerry: None. Bankie: No training? Jerry: No. Bankie: So, how did you know what you were doing? Jerry: Well, I was told. I wasn't really told. I was, from an observation or anything else, they told me, well you're going to connect the damn cable into the box, and we'll do the rest. And that was all there is to it. Bankie: Did you have any charts or diagrams to use the first time? Jerry: No, I knew the cable that came out. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And the broken cable, and I knew where it went. And so, I'd put the new right where it was. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: But, like I say, the real thing that I remember about that was that clicking of that rotar in there. And if that guy up on the hill, wherever it was, pushed the wrong switch, I think we'd been blown out of the- Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: Because they were all around us. The mines were all around us. Bankie: Now, how many times did you have to do this? Can you guess? Jerry: I knew you were going to ask that. And I ... I couldn't tell you. I don't know. Not too many times. Not too many times. Because not too long, I got yellow jaundice. And then like I say, I couldn't tell you much, because I stayed in the hospital. And here's pictures of all my buddies that were in the hospital. Bankie: Okay. Let me take a look at those. Jerry: If you remember, there's the point out on the ... yeah, here. But, here's the hospital buildings. But, I didn't find those out there when I was out there. But, all my buddies here, in fact, I'll show you the fellow that died. I think it's this guy right here. Yeah. But anyway- Bankie: They took small snapshots back then. Jerry: Well, I don't even remember the camera, to tell you the truth. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: This is the one thing that I remember, is being in this hospital. You know what yellow jaundice is don't you? I don't mean to take up your time, but even thinking about food makes you, you can't eat. It just makes you have the dry heaves. And I'll never forget, we had male nurses, and I got one morning, I got a hankering for raw carrots. And why, don't ask me why. I did. And that guy took off like a shot, and he came out with a platter that was a good foot long, full of peeled, raw carrots. And I ate every one of them. Kept them all down. And it wasn't long after that I got out of the hospital. And there was another guy in there that had a hankering for oranges. The same way. And he ate the oranges, he got out of there, but how many died, I don't know. Just the guy next to me died. That's about the only one I know. But anyway, those things are the things that I remember. Bankie: Now, how long were you there? Do you have any idea before you got sick? Jerry: All right. Let's go back now. I left there and I arrived in Camp Crowder, Missouri on July fourth. And I got stories about that trip back there too. But, it was harder than blue blixen. I remember that very well. So, what it'd do? Take me maybe a week at the most, can pack there on a train, I guess, so it was in the latter part of June is when I left Fort Baker. And it was right after I got out of the hospital, but there was one incident that made me go back, I'm sure, and I think back on it. When they found out I was a cable splicer, they had one gun site that the control cable was in trouble. They couldn't get any signals up to the hill from it. And they found out I was a cable splicer, and they had had telephone companies, cable splicers over trying to find it. I'm quite proud of this, so I was a lucky view, and I said, "Well, I have no instruments. I have no nothing. I'll go up and see what I can do." And they took me up to the site, and the first thing I asked him was, "How do you get this cable up to the control tower?" And he says, "It's buried." I says, "Can you let me follow the line, how it's buried?" This is like yesterday. I remember it so well. And we walked down the road. It was a gravel road. And he showed me. Then he comes to a spot and he says, "It takes off on the right, and goes up the hill." And this was a gravel road. No cement, no nothing. Just a plain gravel road. And I asked him. What travels on this road? And he says, "The big trucks and all this thing." I said, if you dig it up right there, your trouble is right underneath there. And I'll be damned if it wasn't. I was lucky. But, it was an educated guess is what it was. Because we've had that kind of trouble before. And I guess they felt that I should go to Signal Corps, and they sent me off to Signal Corps. Bankie: Oh, you did? Jerry: Yeah. I went back to Camp Crowder. What gets me is they sent me, I lost my papers, and they sent me through basic training again. Bankie: Oh, no. Jerry: Yeah, twice, twice. Gave you a little something. I had been a cable splicer for the phone company, well I don't know how long. And everything I did was bell system practices. You know? I was a true journeyman cable splicer. I went back there. Went through basic. Then they sent me to cable splicing school. And what did they teach me from? Bell system practices. Why, I have no idea. Doing the same things I've been doing for years. Bankie: How long was that training? Jerry: Oh boy. When did I leave Camp Crowder, mom? I went back to Fort Dix. Mrs. Parr: You left Camp Crowder, Missouri ... before Christmas. Because I came back on the train. Crying all the way. Jerry: What time? Mrs. Parr: It was before Christmas. Jerry: Yeah, just before Christmas. Mrs. Parr: It was a terrible thing. Jerry: We set up a, this is when I first met my CO. And I went, I was with him for years. And he and I got along like buddies. I was just a, well when I went overseas, I was nothing. I wasn't even a PFC. We packed and made up the, I think it was the 16 45th, if I can remember. Signal battalion. And then we went overseas. Went from Fort Dix. And went to North Africa. Bankie: Okay. Now, you weren't living together when you were on the- Jerry: We were married. Mrs. Parr: We were married. Bankie: Did you have housing? Mrs. Parr: No. Jerry: No. Mrs. Parr: I lived in Oakland. Jerry: Should I tell him the story I hid in the rumble seat to go home? Mrs. Parr: Oh, God. I was terrified when ... our first wedding anniversary came, and I was sick with a sore throat. He was down with jaundice. So, the first anniversary that we spent together was our fifth. Jerry: Fifth anniversary. Bankie: It was? Because you were overseas? Mrs. Parr: Because he was overseas the rest of the time. Jerry: Yeah. Mrs. Parr: But, he snuck out one night [crosstalk 00:13:10]. Jerry: The short time after the hospital and the time I went back east, I wanted to go home. Mrs. Parr: He loaned his car to some nut. Jerry: Well, I says, "Okay, I'll lend you the car." No, that was another deal. I told the guy to take my car, and I'm hiding in the rumble seat. And I went back home to see her. She had strep throat. Mrs. Parr: Yeah. Jerry: And came back again, and she was worried about they'd put the bayonets in it. Mrs. Parr: Yeah, well then he tells me that they were doing that. Throwing up the rumble seats with the bayonets in them. Jerry: Giving her a bad time. But anyway, those are the things that I remember. Bankie: So, you were living in barracks then? Jerry: I was living in the barracks on the pier that was out there. I couldn't find that pier. I don't think that pier's there anymore. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: You said you had a picture of the building that was in ... on the side of the hill. Bankie: Well, I brought some that are on the Fort Point side. Jerry: Yeah. Towards the bridge side? What do you mean, the Fort- Bankie: Well no, I mean Fort Point is on the south side of the Golden Gate Bridge. On the San Francisco side. Jerry: Oh, no, no, no. Bankie: You were on the other side? Jerry: I was on the other side. Bankie: Yeah, okay. Jerry: In fact, our barracks was ... right in there some place. On a pier, right in there. Bankie: Yeah. That's not where the Coast Guard station is moved to about two years ago? They built a whole new facility. Jerry: Yeah. Well, this was not the Coast Guard. This was Coast Artillery. Bankie: Yeah. But now the Coast guard is over there. They left the Fort Point Coast Guard station. Jerry: I barracks were on one side of the pier. And when we got the call in the middle of the night, all we'd do is get, it's like fireman. We'd cross the pier and down into the boat, and we'd take off. And that's where I spent most of my time. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: Except in the hospital. And naturally I walked around under the bridge out there. And thought, gee, I'd like to go fishing out there. But, I never did. And I remember here, well right about in here, there was a building built back into the hills. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And the sergeant took me in there to show me what it was, and I had to take my shoes off too, by the way, to go in there. Because of the TNT that was in there, the yellow powder. Bankie: There was metal in your boots or what? Nails? Jerry: Well, they didn't take a chance. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: At all, copper, metal, tools and all that kind of stuff. And they showed me where they filled the mines, and all that kind of stuff. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And just for the heck of it, I was curious, I'm always a curious guy. Always wanted to know what was going on. But, I didn't see that building. I didn't know where it was. Well, I've talked enough. You haven't asked me a question yet. Bankie: I've got a whole bunch of questions. What was your rank? You were a private then when you were here? Mrs. Parr: Must've been a private. Jerry: Yeah. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: I didn't make sergeant until- Mrs. Parr: You went overseas. Jerry: I got up to be a buck sergeant. And the only reason I did that was because I was a handyman. Mrs. Parr: Jack of all trades. Jerry: It wasn't because of the TO or whatever they called it. Bankie: Now, why did you enlist? Jerry: Why? I didn't. Bankie: You didn't? Jerry: you didn't. Bankie: you didn't? Jerry: [crosstalk 00:16:32]. Mrs. Parr: We were newly married. we don't even [crosstalk 00:16:34]. Jerry: Well, I knew I was going to be. In fact, I didn't have my rating yet. I didn't get my [crosstalk 00:16:40]. Mrs. Parr: You hadn't gotten your order. Jerry: [crosstalk 00:16:41]. Until after we were married. And after I got that card, boy, it wasn't long I was in there. And I went straight to Monterey for my basic indoctrination, or whatever it was. Bankie: Yeah. Okay. Jerry: And then went to Camp Callan. Which was the Coast Artillery. And from what I can remember, the only place I fired with our group, fired the 155 rifle was down there. And I never saw a gun when I was, in fact, except when I went to look for the cable trouble. But, that's the only time I ever did anything with a gun. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: And the only time I, I could tell you a lot of stories overseas. Mrs. Parr: Don't start that. Bankie: Yeah, we're here for the Presidio tour. Okay? Did you have an MOS? Military Occupation Specialty back then? Jerry: Must've been cable splicing. It had to be, because that's all I ever did. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: I was a died in the wool telephone man. That's it. Period. And like I say, if I hadn't had told them I was a cable splicer or something, or if I hadn't had found that trouble, I'm sure I wouldn't stayed there the whole time I was in the Army. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: So, I made the mistake. I ended up back in North Africa. But, I enjoyed every bit of it. Don't get me wrong, I didn't do any fighting. The only thing I fought with, there was the Arabs. They stole everything I had. Bankie: Can you remember your serial number at all? Mrs. Parr: Oh, boy. Jerry: 352, well, hang on a minute. No, 352, that's my social security number. 39085352. 39085352. Bankie: If it comes back. Jerry: 39085352. Bankie: What were your duties exactly? Jerry: What was my duties? Bankie: Yes. Jerry: In the Fort day? Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: Like I say, that's the only thing I ever did. Bankie: Were you the only cable splicer then? Or were there others? Jerry: I guess so. I guess so, because nobody else, while I was there, nobody else was on that ship that did it. Bankie: So, when you weren't out actually going on the ship, say- Jerry: I was on a boat. It wasn't a ship. It was a boat. Bankie: What would you do when you were back on shore then? Jerry: Nothing. Bankie: What were your duties? Jerry: Not a damn thing. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: Not a damn thing. I'm sorry to say that's my whole Army career. Because I did special jobs and that was all. Bankie: Okay. Other electrical work or phone work at all? Jerry: Well, there's a story. When I got back to Crowder, I'll just quickly tell you what happened. When I got back to Camp Crowder, and was going to school. And we were making up, after the school, we were making up this outfit, to [00:19:30] go overseas. It had weapon carriers, I mean, installer rigs, splicing rigs, and all of this. And we were getting it all packed up and ready to go. And I guess this Lieutenant thought I had some kind of a ability to do a job that I didn't know anything about. He brought me an alarm clock. Now, I'll never forget this. I guess it was a keep sake for him. Like my little radio I had and so forth. And he asked me, "Do you think you can fix this?" He says it stopped. It won't run. And I said, "Well, I'll take a look at it." Well, to make a long story short, I took apart, and the main spring was broken. Well, maybe less than a quarter of an inch from the shaft. On this main spring, there's a hole through the end of the spring that goes over the nob on the shaft. And then you wind it up. So, it took me about three days to pound a hole through the end of that spring. And I put it back over the shaft. Wound it up, gave it back to him, and I told him, don't ever let the thing run down anymore. Because otherwise, it would come off and that's the last I heard of it. But, from then on, I was a ... well, my official, I guess, title was an armor and artificer, but I did all the odd jobs that ... I built camps overseas. I got Italian PW's to do the work. I took German PW's, and I had that one day, and no more, I sent them back and I took Italian from then on. German's, they weren't worth a damn. I was a hard task master. I'll tell you that right here and now. But I had those Italian PW's, they'd do anything for me. I mean, and they were the best masons I ever saw in my life. And I built a lot, I won't say a lot, I built about four camps and they were beautiful. I mean, I was quite proud of them. After I got the camp built, I'd build a beer hall. Dance floor, for the USO and that kind of stuff. That's about all I ever did. Mrs. Parr: Here's your discharge paper. Jerry: 39085352. See that? By golly I remembered it. Mrs. Parr: Did you remember? Jerry: Yeah, I remembered it. Mrs. Parr: Look what I came across too, your father's discharge paper. Bankie: Oh, gee. When is that from? Mrs. Parr: This was from 1900 and- Jerry: He fought with Teddy Roosevelt. Bankie: Did he? In Cuba? Mrs. Parr: On the 10th of July, 1904. By reason of purchase, whatever that means. Jerry: Oh, I don't know what that means. Mrs. Parr: Character soldier recorded as good. Jerry: But, this is mine. Mrs. Parr: Yeah, that's yours. I kept the two together. Jerry: Separation. Bankie: That's great. Jerry: Yeah. I'm surprised, well that number is drilled into you. Mrs. Parr: I suppose. I'm surprised you remembered it. Bankie: How long were you in for? Jerry: The 9400 TSU Signal Core. 1645th, where did that come from? Mrs. Parr: I don't know. But, it doesn't say on here from what date to what date, does it? Like this one does. Jerry: Oh, this is when, I went to ... when I was overseas, I got bored. I had to keep busy. I had to do something. That's why they gave me all these jobs. And- Mrs. Parr: Oh, you tried for officer [crosstalk 00:22:58]. Jerry: The company commander, like I say, I got along with him beautifully. He and I were buddies. He knew I was bored. And so, he tried everything possible to give me jobs to keep me going. And then he asked me, you want to try for OCS? And I said, "Sure. Hell yes. I'll try for anything." Well, first of all, he wanted me to try for air core. And I had no problem. I passed all the tests. Written tests. Everything. And we went in for an aptitude test. And I would try to find out, what's this for. And he said, "Well, to find out whether you'd be good at fighter pilot or bombardier, all that kind of stuff." I says, "I'll never be a fighter pilot. I'm a coward, man." I'll be damned if I didn't come out as going to be a fighter pilot. And I couldn't believe it. Well, about three days later, they canceled all of it. And what made me mad, I had all my records, all my letters, I had Colonel Nelson, who was the head of the Signal Corps in North Africa, write a letter for me. And I went out, the company commander gave me a job to do out at Bolita, outside of Algeria. To build a camp in a farm house, near a farm house. And all I had was a few GI's, a couple of GI's, and most were Italian PW's. Well, we went, what took a two and a half ton truck to get material, and I didn't leave a guard. And they stole every paper I had. They stole, every barrack bags we had. And that was the one time the company commander got mad at me. I mean, he was mad. Because they stole everything I had. I didn't give a darn about those barracks, but my papers were all gone. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: But, I built the camp. Beautiful camp. Beautiful camp. First thing I built was my own corridors. My own shop. My own bench. My work bench. And then I'd build one for the first sergeant. And then for the [crosstalk 00:25:00]. You know, I was a politician. Bankie: Yeah. Mrs. Parr: You sound like one right now. He wants to keep talking about the Bay Area. He doesn't want these. Jerry: I know. It's in the tape and all these. But, I get started on my days. Mrs. Parr: I know. Jerry: The guy, I went from camp, from different outfits, all the time, because of my job of building camps. And the first guy I would get acquainted with, and this is politics, I guess. But, I never found a bad one. Was the mess sergeant. And the mess sergeants in every one of the camps I went to was buddies. Because I could go in the kitchen any time I wanted and have something to eat. We went down to San Diego to look for Jonesy. I've got a picture of him in here. And I couldn't find him. He was the best mess Sergeant you ever saw. He could make dried eggs sound like they just came out of the chicken. That's a fact. Mrs. Parr: Anyways. That was all the information. There was no dates on there. Jerry: That's all right. Well, I know it was July I left. And it was January when I went overseas. Bankie: Okay. You mentioned food. What was the food like when you were there over in Fort Baker? Jerry: You know, I was thinking of that last night. I can't sleep at night, and I think, you know, and I don't remember going to a mess hall. That wasn't important to me, I guess. I don't remember. And I know the mess hall was back up, you know, there was a drill field in the center. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: And the barracks were all around the outside. And the mess hall was up there some place. But, I really don't, I can't remember it. It's all these little things that I remember. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: Things that I was happy doing, I guess. [crosstalk 00:26:42]. Mrs. Parr: You were talking about dates. Nancy Adams was born in April. Now, you weren't sick then. And you were stationed over in San Francisco at Baker. It must've been. Jerry: Well, I don't know. I do know ... well, no. I got out of the hospital and found the cable trouble. Mrs. Parr: Oh, you did that afterwards? Jerry: Well, that was after I got out of the hospital. Mrs. Parr: All right. Jerry: Yeah. And that's when they decided, well I better be in the Signal Corps. Bankie: Okay. When you were there at the entrance to the Harbor, right after our involvement in World War Two. Was there a feeling in the area that we had good, you know, security? Was there scared of being attacked by the Japanese on the coast? Anything like that? Jerry: I never saw anything of that type of attitude. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: I never did. Bankie: Because I know that the city had the blackouts and a lot of citizens were concerned. Jerry: Yeah. Mrs. Parr: We were. Jerry: Huh? Mrs. Parr: We were concerned here. Jerry: Well yeah, but I wasn't. Mrs. Parr: No, because we thought at one time there was a Japanese submarine- Jerry: I never even heard about that. We didn't get too much ... I don't know. Mrs. Parr: I think that was before you [crosstalk 00:27:57]. Jerry: We had a job to do, I guess, and that was all there was to it. Bankie: Okay. Did you feel like there was good communications and good equipment right away there at the harbor entrance? Jerry: Yeah. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: As far as I was concerned, or as far as the mine planter and that kind of, that was our main job. Bankie: Now, the mine fields were already there, right? In the water when you arrived? Jerry: The mines were out in the water. Bankie: Do you know how many there were? How many minefields? Jerry: Oh, I have no idea. I have no idea. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: And another thing I was thinking. I know I've had these junction boxes, and they're, oh they were about that big around. And I straddled them on the bow of the boat. And I took the lugs out and all that kind of stuff. But, I couldn't tell you today, how many cables were coming into that. Going out in all directions. Bankie: It was like more than 10? Jerry: Oh, yes. Well, okay. There were between 10 and 20. Bankie: All right. Okay. Jerry: But, the sergeant told me, the only way they can blow those things is either the ship hit it, and tilt it off perpendicular, it would blow. Or they could blow it, any one of them, at any place, from up on a hill. That's what these cables were going up to. Bankie: Yeah. Okay. Jerry: And that's about the only thing I remember. Bankie: How deep in the water were the mines themselves? Jerry: Not very deep. Bankie: Right near the surface? Jerry: Yeah. Not too deep. They were under, but not too deep. I often wondered how in the devil does that mine, the Niles, I don't know if you've ever heard of the mine planter, Niles. It went out and grappled for them, and grappled for the, they did all the work. All they did was throw us the line, we hauled it up on deck, and spliced the thing, or I did. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: And then that was it. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: We were a little concerned, when we, each time we'd go out, and even the sergeant said this. We've got to be concerned that we don't hit one that's floating. Although, I wasn't scared. To think about it, I wasn't scared. Maybe I was too dumb to not be scared. Bankie: And did you go up with, when you knew the tides were right [crosstalk 00:30:07]. Jerry: We went out when we had to. We went out when we had to. When we got the word there was a loose mine, we were going out. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: We went. And like I told you, if it was foggy, you couldn't see the other side of the pier when we come out the barracks. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: That sergeant could take that boat out there, and he put it right where it was supposed to be. I remember the first trip. I started getting seasick. Do you know what the potato patch is? Bankie: Yes, I do. Yeah. Jerry: Well, I started getting sick. And the sergeant looks at me and he says, "Hey, get in the galley, you need soda crackers." So, I did. I went down, and I'll be damned, straightened me out right now, and I never had the problem again. Bankie: Had you been on a boat much before that? Jerry: Not too much, no. Not too much. No. I had a little row boat that I went fishing on, but that's all. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: Yeah. I couldn't even tell you how long this boat was. I wouldn't know whether it was 50 foot, or 100 foot. All I know is getting on it and taking off. Bankie: Was there any regular maintenance of the mines, or the junction boxes that you know of? Jerry: No, not that I know of. We didn't do it anyway. We didn't do any maintenance. And we'd get our problems when we had rough weather. And we knew we were going to go out. And how many, like I say, how many times I went out, I don't know. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: But, when it was rough weather out there, we knew we'd go out sooner or later. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: I can't say enough of that sergeant though. I'd like to know him, I'd like to, wonder whether he's still around. Because he knew his business, that boy. Bankie: Now, you know what unit you were in, like which company? Anything more specific? Jerry: No, I couldn't tell you. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: I wonder if there are GI's that keep record of all that kind of stuff. Bankie: The ones that I met so far that went in young, right at the beginning of the war, didn't. That wasn't in their mind to do that. They were so caught up with what was happening in their lives. Jerry: Yeah. That's me. I'm always, to this day, in fact I am very upset that I can't go out and work in the yard, because I can't do it anymore. My feet ... but, I was always a worker. I was a hard worker. And that's the only way I lived. And that's all I waited for is something to do. So, and they gave it to me. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: Which I was very happy about. I'll tell you one thing, I never pulled KP. Bankie: You didn't? Jerry: Never in my life did I pull KP. No, sir. It wasn't my fault, but they just [crosstalk 00:32:59]. Bankie: Even in basic they didn't get you? Jerry: The whole, not even in the basic. Why, I don't know. I don't know. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: Who knows what the Army is thinking. Bankie: Yeah. Has the Presidio changed much since you were there? Jerry: No. You mean on the San Francisco? Bankie: Either side. Jerry: Well, like I say, when I went over there, and I was thinking the other day, I'm going to take another ride over there, and just mosey around to see if things come back. But, it wasn't anywhere near what I remembered. They had those, you fellas had the museum or something in there. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And I don't remember that being there. Bankie: No, that's pretty new. Jerry: But all the hospital, where like ... mobile homes, they're not mobile homes, but like a trailer like things. So, these are ... Bankie: Those are all pretty new buildings then, weren't they? Jerry: Yeah, they were new. They were new. Mm-hmm (affirmative). But, there's where I spent most of my time. Bankie: What other units were stationed over there at Fort Baker when you were there? Do you remember? Jerry: Here again, I have no idea. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: I have no idea. Bankie: What was the security like in the area? Jerry: Maybe I was self centered, I guess, I don't know. I had no- Bankie: How old were you then? Jerry: 24. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: 24. Bankie: This was all new to you? Jerry: Yeah, it was all new. It was all new. And like I told you on the phone, the things that I really remember, and they're like they happened yesterday, is things that really impressed me, you know? Like this fellow dying in here. I'll never forget that. Bankie: Tell me that, you said that before I turned the tape recorder on. Jerry: Well, when I was in the hospital, yellow jaundice is that you can't eat. And even smelling or thinking about food makes you want to dry heave. And all that kind of stuff. Well, this staff sergeant was in the next bed to me. Hal, he died from it. And that hit me pretty hard. We were pretty, you know, buddies, I guess. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And not too long after that, I got a hankering for raw carrots. I loved raw carrots. I told this male nurse, I said, "Boy, I'd sure like to have a raw carrot." And it was, I see it just like it happened yesterday. Here he comes running back, and how he did it so fast, I don't know. But, a platter was that big, and it was full of the raw carrots. And I ate every damn one of them. And it wasn't two or three days after that, I got my appetite back. I started eating. I started losing my yellow ... my eyes were yellow and all that kind of stuff. Bankie: It must've been something in there, you really needed. Jerry: I guess so. Bankie: I don't know what it was. Jerry: And there was another fella that had a hankering for oranges and did the same thing. Bankie: That sounds like one of those classic stories of a pregnant woman wanting pickles or something, but there's something there you needed. Jerry: Yeah, I'll never forget that, and then it wasn't too long after that, that I ... got lucky and found the cable trouble for them. And then I shipped off to Camp Crowder in Missouri. Bankie: And what was the security like in your area? Were there armed guards? Jerry: Oh, yeah. There was guards at the gate and everything. And like I say, when I got out of the hospital, I wanted to come home. I had my dad's car there. But, I couldn't get out. And so, I shouldn't say this, maybe they'll come back and arrest me or something, but anyway, I loaned this car to a friend of mine, and I told him, "Okay, you let me out." And I did. And went home and saw my wife, and come back again. But, she was all, she was worried sick. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: But, it was nothing to it. What the heck. I- Bankie: Did you get leave while you were stationed there to get out? Jerry: No. Bankie: Not at all? Jerry: None whatsoever. No. Bankie: Were you on duty like seven days a week? Jerry: Yeah. I never had leave. I never did get leave. I got maybe a day down in Camp Callan, down in San Diego. But, from the time I got into Fort Baker, until the time I went overseas, and the time I got back, I never had a day off. Never. Bankie: Wow. Jerry: I got back, I came back to go to OCS. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: And I went to OCS, and the time I passed all my tests for OCS, the war in ... Europe was over. But, I came home anyway. And I started in on at Fort Mammoth. OCS, Fort Mammoth. But, to get home, the Colonel put out the edict, anybody that goes home for this sort of thing has to sign away their points. You know, they had a point system. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: For discharge. And heck, I'd do anything. I signed away my points. And I went two weeks, maybe three weeks, I guess, to Fort Mammoth, being called Mr. Parr, this, that, and the other thing. I think today, I wish I had gone through. I wish I had, I know I could've gone through, and ... but, they came out with, anybody that signed in the mean time, the orange pen was that they shot the bomb off. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: And the war was over. And they said anybody that signed away their points overseas, got them back automatically. And I had enough to long be discharged. And I didn't want to stay. Although, I think back on it, I wish I had got my commission. I know I could've, and whether I wanted it for the prestige or not, I don't know. I have no idea. But, I should've done it. But, no, I just got discharged, and then the company said I could have a couple of months off, you know, before I come back. Bankie: Oh, yeah. Jerry: I went back the next week. Bankie: You did? Jerry: Yeah. I had to go back to work. That's all there was too it. Work was my, still is, and that's what makes me very frustrated. Bankie: Probably just wanted to get back home and be with your wife then, and your family, huh? Jerry: Yes. But, I wanted to get back to work. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: Because the telephone company, I spent 30, almost 40 years in the phone company. And that was my company, period. And I get a little upset now that they've changed, and they don't have the loyalty in the company anymore. And that's wrong. That's absolutely wrong. That's my own personal feelings, by the way. Bankie: That's what we're here for. Okay. Jerry: But, like I say, I was a hard worker. I wanted to work, and I continued. And this is my biggest frustration now that I can't. Bankie: I asked you what, if the Presidio had changed, can you remember the Presidio, the San Francisco side of the Presidio at all, has that changed much? Jerry: Not too much. It was, in fact, driving through there, it seems it was when I went there. When I first saw it. I couldn't see, although, I'll tell you this, I wasn't looking for any change. Bankie: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: I was kind of a self-centered man, I guess. I don't know. I wanted to do what I wanted to do, and that was it. Bankie: Okay. Do you remember any of the names of any of the men that you served with there or their ranks? Jerry: No. Bankie: You mentioned the one sergeant. Jerry: Yes, but I couldn't remember his name. I have no, I can't remember it at all. In fact, I've got the picture here, but I ... I do remember some names after I see them from overseas. But, there's my grandson. Or my nephew, excuse me. But ... oh, I was very proud of that. Lieutenant Scott McCuskey [Elbert Scott McCuskey]. I don't know if you ever heard of him. He was quite a famous Navy Pilot. When I went back to Missouri, on the train, we stopped in, I don't know what Canyon is. Remember the, do you know the bridge that's way up on the top ... that crosses the Canyon and the train tracks are way down below? Bankie: The Grand Canyon of the Gunnerson [Black Canyon of the Gunnerson]? Mrs. Parr: Colorado, isn't it, Jerry? Jerry: It was Colorado, yeah. What was the name of it? Well anyway, we stopped there. To have a rec, we all got out. I got out, and I didn't have my tie on, my uniform. I was out of uniform. And a couple MP's come after me. And Lieutenant Scott here, he comes up to them and says, "Ah, leave the kid alone. Let him be happy. He's all right." And the MP's left. They left me alone. I'll never forget it. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: You know something, about, what was it, six months ago we saw him on television? Mrs. Parr: Yeah. Right. Jerry: They had a story about him on PBS. On television. And I was real happy to see he was still alive. He was home. He was going home for a few days. And then he was going, he told me he was going back. He was the nicest man next to my CO, that I ever met. He was the most down to earth man I ever saw in my life. He was real good. He had, see the flags he's got over here? Bankie: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Did he fly off an aircraft carrier, do you know? Jerry: Yeah. Which one, I don't know. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: But, I'll never forget him. Never. I'd like to meet him again. But, he was an old man when I saw him. Bankie: There's someone else I've got here for questions. I was going to ask you, what was your work day like? Do you remember what time you got up, what you did when you went to bed? Anything like that? Jerry: This is bad. I wasn't really trying to be a politician or anything else, but I didn't ... in bootcamp- Bankie: Was the Reveille played? Was there- Jerry: Oh, yes. But, didn't make any, after basic training, it didn't matter to me, because I didn't get up for Reveille. I got up when I was supposed to. I had things to do. But, Reveille meant nothing to me. And why, to this day, I don't know. Bankie: Probably because the type of duty that you had. Jerry: Yeah. When I was overseas, I was, I got my Sergeant, Buck Sergeant, I kept after my CO, Major Jacobs, to give me a promotion. Give me an extra stripe or something. He says, he'd tell me, he had three names for me. He says, "Jerry, Sergeant, or Sergeant Parr." And when I heard Sergeant Parr, it was all military. I mean, give him no eyeballs and all this. I knew where I stood. But, when it was Jerry, he wanted to take a trip some place. He wanted to go see the mountains, and Algiers or something like that. And we'd go. Like I say, I was his buddy. In fact, give you a little story. I went up to Oregon to see this, see a friend of mine that was in one of my camps. And when we first met him, he told my wife, he says, "You know, Sergeant Parr was as close to a Major as any Sergeant could be."So, which told the story. He and I were buddies. But, when he called me Sergeant Parr, it was all business. That's all there was to it. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And he wanted to go back in the hills and do some sheep hunting, but we never got the chance to do it. But, we did go down to the, I don't know if you remember the ship going up in the Algiers Harbor? Bankie: No, I don't. Jerry: It blew everything to pieces. But, we used to go down to the Algiers Harbor, just moseying around. Just to see the sights. Just he and I in a jeep. And then we got to go ... he was an electronics man, he taught me electronics, by the way. He started me on electronics. And we would get old radios out of planes, and redo them, and we had a radio in every barrack. I mean, in every tent. We had a four man, what do they call them? Eight man or four man pyramidal tents. Whatever they were. Bankie: Yeah, I don't know. Jerry: On this camp, on cement floors. The potbelly stove in the center. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And the bunk beds, you know, I could [inaudible] in each one. I had converted ... radio direction finder radios for AC, and I had one in every tent. With his help and all of that. And this is the kind of things I remember. Bankie: Wow, that's nice. Jerry: But then can the company, the one, what I was getting at, is I never answered Reveille, or you know, never did. Except when the first Sergeant was gone, and who would take his place? Was me. The company commander would say, "Hey," what was his name? Oh dammit, he lived in Albany, New York. I can't remember, but anyway, he says, "So and so is gone. I want you to take over for him until he comes back." That's the only time I had to get up for Reveille, and I didn't like that job. But, I took Sergeants job when he was gone. [pause] A lot of fellas that weren't too happy with the Red Cross. I don't know, we'll not talk too much about this. But, Sergeant Jones, Jonesy,got to word that the Red Cross was going to come out and give us donuts for breakfast. And this was in Bolita, North Africa. And Jonesy says, "Hey, how about getting up at 1:00 in the morning, and help me make some donuts?" I said, "Sure. Yes." So, we made donuts, big potato donuts. Have you ever seen the big fluffy ones? Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: Beautiful things. I don't know how many we'd eat, but we made enough to have at least three or four for every GI on the place. And so come breakfast, we're all lined up to get, here's the Red Cross standing here giving us a little cake donut about that big. And here's Jonesy behind the table, he's putting out two great big, and they never came out again. Bankie: Taught them a lesson. Jerry: See, those are the things I remember. Bankie: Yeah. That's great. Did the weather affect your job at all, or just effect you [crosstalk 00:48:36]. Jerry: The weather, rough weather, when I was on a boat, yeah, rough weather effected it, because we'd go out every time it got rough weather. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: But, why they broke loose, I don't know. They would broke loose from the moorings, and that in turn broke the cable. And so, off we'd go. How many times, I couldn't, it was a routine deal. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: The first one was about the only trip I remember, to tell you the truth. And now that you mentioned it, was I instructed, or was I told what to do. I really don't remember. I don't think I was. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: The Sergeant told me, yeah, okay open it up. And things like that. But, that's all the instructions I've ever had. Well, I'm proud to say I'm an electronics man. I taught electronics at a lowly college, but I'm self taught. I never went to school. There was never formal training. So, right now I'm trying to learn computers and going crazy. Bankie: Let's see, what were any of the serious elements of your job? You've already mentioned several. Jerry: Serious ones? The boat was the serious, but there wasn't ... I don't really know. I guess it was, I was pretty serious ... it was pretty serious when we went down to help clean up the bomb blast, down on the Algiers Harbor. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: But ... Bankie: Okay. Jerry: Another thing, I built, I'll tell you a little story. We built a camp outside of Algiers called LBR. It's like Piedmont is to Oakland, up on the hill. And we took over some housing outfit, and they weren't finished. And so, we took it over. And we got all settled, and what I did was start building furniture. I had to do something, you know? So, I started building furniture, beautiful stuff. Chest of drawers, and bunks, and I took a blow torch and burnt all of them. You know, burnt antique type things, you know? Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: But every barracks or every room had one. The company commander left for some deal up in, I don't know where. And we got a company commander from the eighth Army. They were the ones that were fighting Rommel up there and stuff. And he was all spit and polish. He was, I didn't pull the tapes, but I didn't get along with him at all. He came out with the order, all, he was remembering these GI's that were slipping in the mud, and all this kind of stuff. And he saw all this comfort that we had, and he said, "Get rid of it. Get it out. Burned." And I had to burn everything I made. He didn't make points with me, I'll tell you that. Because it wasn't none of his damn business. I'll never forget that either. And I never wanted anything to do with that guy. I'll tell you, but he wasn't there very long. The young man came back, and he was mad when he heard that. Bankie: Yeah. I bet. Jerry: Well, anyway that's not over in Fort Baker. Bankie: Do you remember what other ships? You mentioned the Niles. Was there any other ship [crosstalk 00:52:10]. Jerry: Well, the Niles was a mine planter. Bankie: Oh, mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: And it was a wooden boat. How big it was, I don't know. But, it had all the derricks and all that kind of stuff on it. Bankie: So, there was one mine planter in Fort Baker? Jerry: One mine planter, yeah. Bankie: Okay. Do you know of any other ones? Jerry: Well, there was, I think, if I'm not mistaken, there was a ship that handled the submarine net, to open the net when some ships had to come in or go out. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: And the Niles, if I remember right, that's why we were always out there first, because the net didn't bother us a bit. But, Niles had to have it open to get out there. And that's why we always beat the Niles out there. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: But, that's about all I can remember. Bankie: Do you know of any other mine planter ships? I know there were some from Fort Point, on the other side of the Golden Gate? Jerry: I don't remember. Bankie: All right. Jerry: The only one I remember is the Niles. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: That's the one we worked with. Bankie: Okay. How did, what did you call there, a mine depot, a torpedo depot? Or was there a name for the area? Jerry: Fort Baker is all I remember. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: Yeah. Bankie: Because at Fort Point, it was, part of Fort Point was called the Fort Point mine or torpedo depot specifically. Jerry: I may be wrong. But, I didn't have the paper, that's another thing I lost was my papers. Mrs. Parr: Yeah. I'm going outside a minute. I'll be right back. Jerry: It didn't say when I was going to Fort Baker or where. I'm sure it said I was going to Fort Baker. And that's what I assumed that's where I was, was Fort Baker. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And I was told that Fort Cronkite was up on the other side. Bankie: Right. Yeah. Jerry: And that's where the control house for it. Bankie: Because they could see out to the ocean. Jerry: That's right. They saw the whole thing. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And like I say, they could blow anything they, never heard them blow any of them. Not the whole time I was there. They never blew any. Bankie: No, I never heard of any. Jerry: Yeah. But, in fact, my Army days was very quiet. I guess. Bankie: Okay. So, what else do you have [crosstalk 00:54:11]. Jerry: I don't talk about my Army days to my brother-in-law, because he was in the Bulge, and he doesn't like me to talk the way I do. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: Yeah. Which I don't blame him. Bankie: Were there any funny incidents that you can remember while you were there? Jerry: Funny? Bankie: Did you guys play tricks on each other, anything to relive the mood? Jerry: No, we never did that. We were very, like I said, the only man that I can remember, and the only reason I remember him, I guess, is he'd impressed me. I had respect for him. Because he could do things that I couldn't do, and I have respect for anybody that can do things that I can't do. But, I have no respect for people that tell you to do something, that can't do it. You know what I mean? Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: So, as far as the other crew, we got along, I guess. I don't remember any bad things about it. But, we were never really buddy buddies, I guess. Bankie: Do you have like a unit mascot or anything like that? Jerry: No. No. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: Nope. We were in the barracks. We went over to eat. When we got a call, we were in the boat and took off. That's about it. That's all we did. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: I never was in a parade on the parade grounds, or never had any training, marching, or anything like that. I was strictly a, well, the guys on the boat and the Sergeant, and myself, were strictly had a job to do, and that's what we were doing. Bankie: Well, you were more a specialist. You weren't like General Rifleman or things like that, infantry. Jerry: No. The whole time I was in the Army. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: I was a specialist. Mrs. Parr: Would you like something to drink? Jerry: I don't know why, it's maybe I had the, what do you want to call it? The Yankee ingenuity or something. I don't know. It could've been, I don't know. And I'm sure that's what my CO's saw in me. Bankie: a lot of the guys couldn't even read and write, could they, that were going in early in the way there? And here you had this, it was specialist training already, working with electronics. Jerry: I had the special training, and I was always, I did woodworking, and always worked with my hands. I got all A's in all the shops in high school, and all of the heavy subjects, I didn't do good at all. Math, you know, that's the one thing- Mrs. Parr: Want something to drink? Jerry: Yeah, how about a cup of coffee? Mrs. Parr: Coffee? Bankie: Something cold. Mrs. Parr: Something cold. Jerry: Yeah, all right. Let's have a Dew. You like a Dew? Bankie: Sure, that'd be great. How did you feel about your job when you were there at Fort Baker? Jerry: At Fort Baker? I had a job to do. Bankie: You were young. You were new. You were in the Army. Did you feel like it was important work? Jerry: Yeah, you have to remember ... you know I've gone for years and years trying to analyze my actions. I was a boss in the phone company, and then I, today, that's the most of the analysis I've tried to do, is how come I didn't get any higher than first line, which I got as high as where I had about five offices under my jurisdiction. But, why didn't I get any higher? Well, I think it's because the jobs to do right now, had to be done, and I couldn't think of the future. I couldn't think of things to make it better. I had to do what I do right now. And I still feel that way. That's the only reason I can think of that I didn't go any higher. And why they picked me for fighter pilot, or they picked me for OCS, I have no idea. Maybe because I had a fairly good IQ, I don't know. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). How did you feel about your job though? When you're there at Fort Baker? Jerry: At Fort Baker? I had a job to do, and I did it. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: This is what I do, and that's what I do. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: I never gave it a thought. To tell you the truth, I never gave it a thought that we could actually be attacked, attacked, that isn't a word, is it? Mrs. Parr: Attacked. Jerry: Attacked. Bankie: Thank you. Mrs. Parr: You're welcome. Jerry: She's my secretary. By any foreign countries. I never, it never crossed my mind. And I see all the gun placements up there, and I say, well this is silly, you know, because ... well, I understand a submarine did come in San Diego someplace. I don't know if I remember right, but nothing ever came to the Bay. Bankie: They came by here. Jerry: Did they? Bankie: They did actually fire on land up in Oregon at Fort Stevens. Shells landed on land. Jerry: I don't remember. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: But as far as I know, none of those gunner places ever were fired while I was there. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And like I say, the only time I fired a 155 rifle, I didn't fire it, I was part of the crew, and for some reason, I come up thinking I was a gun captain. Why I thought that, I have no idea today. Nobody told me this. Well, they may have and I didn't think much of it. But, I came up as a gun captain on a 155 rifle. But, I never fired a gun. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: Since. Bankie: How did you end up in the Coast Artillery? Do you have any idea? Jerry: I have no idea whatsoever. Bankie: You were just assigned to it? Jerry: They were just assigned. I shipped out of ... Roberts. I guess it was Roberts, or some place in Monterey. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Jerry: And went straight to Camp Callan, into the Coast Artillery. And went through basic. I don't really remember too much about my basic in Camp Callan. Oh, yes I do. Yes, I do. I was always trying for better, for a promotion, always. Continually. And here's another officer, I'll tell you I have no respect for, whatsoever. I asked the Lieutenant [Iannelly?], if I could try for OCS. He says, "Okay." And I tried. And I've never had any problem taking a written test. Never. Passed them just like water through a stream. But anyway, I went before the, after you pass all the tests, you go before a board of officers. And they give an oral test. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: They ask you questions. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: Well, I'll tell you right now. In those days, I had a bit of a temper, and it took about maybe 10 years for me to realize this, and start working on it. But, I had a bit of a temper. And I come in, give them the old, high ball. Tell them what I was there for and so forth. And the first thing out of this Lieutenants'— and he was the head of the board. Just a straight shave tail himself. And he says, "Can you handle men?" Well, what's a man going to say? Is a man going to say, "No, I don't know how to handle men." No, he's going to say, "Yes, I can handle men." Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: And that's what I said. He says very sneeringly, he says, "What makes you think you can handle men?" And I started back, I says, "Because I can. I've had men under me. I can handle men." And he started in on me, and he got me madder, and madder. And pretty soon he takes, I'll never forget as long as I live, he had the papers, my papers in front of him. Picked them up, and tore them right in half. Bankie: Wow. Jerry: That's the kind of man he was. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: No objective. No whatsoever. He was the boss and that was it. And I still feel this way. Anybody that has got a degree, which I don't have. I should never come out of college saying that he can't learn anything more. Bankie: That's true. Jerry: And I was a boss of three offices in the Fremont area. And it was the days when the company took college graduates, for the sole purpose to make high management. And they were told if they looked promising, they could stay. Otherwise, they were fired. And I'd get them, time and time again into my offices, and the majority, now, I'm not trying to say all of them, but the majority of them would never listen to me or what's going on in the office. They tried to tell me what to do. And if they wanted my pick, they wouldn't last with the company. And every one of them didn't. But, the ones that did, were the ones that wanted to learn. Bankie: Yup. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: And I've had that feeling ever since. And I've got a son-in-law that's the same way. And I get a little upset. Bankie: Try to learn something new every day. Jerry: That's right. Bankie: Everyone should. Jerry: You hit the nail right on the head. I am 76 years old, but tomorrow I can learn something new. Bankie: And you're learning computers. Jerry: Yes. And I'm going to. and I don't give a darn how many degrees you have. You can learn something tomorrow. Well, that's my personal- Bankie: All right, let's get back to my list here. Jerry: Okay. Bankie: Was the duty there at Fort Baker good for you? Was it a good place to be at that time? Jerry: Yes. Only because I was close to home. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: I was young. First married, and I analyze, and I would say that's the reason I was feeling that way. I wasn't gung-ho. I wasn't going out to win the war. I wasn't that type of man, I guess. Although, I would never shirk it, I would always do what I was told. But, I wasn't a gung-ho man. Never was. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Your time in the hospital there at Fort Baker, how long were you in, do you remember? Jerry: I was afraid you were going to ask that. And I really don't. Bankie: A month, two months? Jerry: It was a good two months. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: It was a good two months. Bankie: Were you bed ridden most of that time? Jerry: Most of the time, yeah. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And here's the pictures when I first started getting- Bankie: And you said that there were a lot of men that got the jaundice then. Jerry: Yeah. And all of them came from San Diego. Bankie: And it was from shots that you had received? Jerry: Yellow fever shot. That's, now this is what I understand that the Mayo Clinic found. Was they found that it was a bad batch of yellow fever shots down in San Diego, down in the southern part of the state. And that's where they all came from. Bankie: Okay. Did it bother you the rest of your life, or did you get over it, and it was done with? Jerry: Bothered to the point that I couldn't give blood. They wouldn't take my blood. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: My sister-in-law got into bad trouble, and I tried to give blood, and they start asking questions. And as soon as they heard yellow jaundice, they kicked me out. And nobody would, I had Polio too, by the way. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: They wouldn't take it for that. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: But, yellow jaundice and Polio was the worst sickness I ever had in my life. Bankie: So, do you feel that you had good medical treatment there? Jerry: Oh, yes. They treated me like I was a king. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: In fact, maybe a little too good, I guess. I don't know. There was never any, I can't remember any female nurses. They were all male nurses. And they were nice. They were very good. In fact, this one nurse when he told me that the sergeant was gone, he was very upset about it too. Bankie: So, they didn't send you over to Letterman than? Over at the presidio? Jerry: No. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: No, no. They kept us all there. All together, I guess is the reason for it. Because they were studying it. Bankie: Okay. All right. A totally different type of question. What kind of equipment do you remember using while you were there at Fort Baker? Jerry: I never had a gun. I never had ... what kind of equipment? I didn't have any equipment. We had the boat, and we had the barracks. Bankie: Your tools when you go out to work? Jerry: Huh? Bankie: Just a few hand tools? Jerry: Oh, yeah. Well in fact, I didn't go out to work to splice. Just that one trip. They found out I was a splicer, and they wanted to know if I knew anything about it. And I told them, I says, "I don't have any instruments. But, let me go up and see." I'll give you the story of the whole damn thing. And I don't remember whether he was a Sergeant, or a commission officer that took me up there. Took me up to one of the gunnery placements. Up on the, in fact, I tried to, in fact, I did find the placement, where the gun was up. It was just around on the outer edge. And, he showed me where the gunman placement had the bad cable. And the only thing I could ask, I says, "Well, how does the cable feed out of here up to the control?" And he showed me. It goes out through the top, and then goes down and is buried down here. And I says, "Oh, can we walk along the buried and so I can see?" And like I said, it was a lucky guess. But, we went down, oh down the road, this gravel road. Bankie: Did it go down to Kirby Cove? Jerry: Oh, I couldn't remember. I didn't know anything. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: We walked maybe 100 yards down the road. And then he said, "It crosses the road here." And I immediately asked him, I says, "how deep is this thing?" He didn't know. He said, "Well, maybe 18 inches. I don't know." And I told him, I says, "I'm willing to bet you right here now, and I'll shake everything on it, that your problem is right in the middle of that road. Right over one of the ruts of these trucks going by here." So, they dug it up. And sure enough, that's where it was. Bankie: Now, did that road go down to a small beach? Do you remember? Jerry: I really don't know. Bankie: Were there gunnery placements down there? Jerry: I remember going to the gunnery placements, and then getting back in the truck, and going down the road again. I never went on it. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: I stopped at the gunnery placement, in fact, I never even got into the gunnery to see the guns, to tell you the truth. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: I ask him, I says, like I say, I ask him how does the cable go out of here? How does it get up to the control room? And he showed me. And when we got to where it crossed the road, I knew that's where the damn thing was. And why the telephone men, I mean, from out of San Francisco, splicers, why they couldn't have found that, I have no idea. But, I was quite proud that I found it. I was, kind of, felt a little relieved that they found it there. They had to dig up the road. Bankie: Yeah, that's right. Jerry: But then I told them, when you fill this back in, you get this cable fixed, you dig a little trench down the bottom of that thing, and then bit a two by 12 across the top of the thing. All across the road. Bankie: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: He says, "We'll do that from now on." Bankie: Yeah. Right. No pressure on it. Jerry: But, the reason I knew this, well this is the kind of thing I was looking for when I was working. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: We had problems, this is where to go. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: Until we got smart and put ducts in. Bankie: Was there a splicer there before they found you? Jerry: Not that I know of. Bankie: Somebody had to have been there working on the mines. Jerry: That's right, and I never ... the overload is going when I speak. I never saw him. Never met him. And why I took over, I don't know. It was after I was out of the hospital. I took over. He must've left or something. I don't know. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: You know, I never gave it a thought until you mentioned it. Bankie: Somebody had to. Jerry: Somebody had to be there. Somebody had to, he should've told me what to do. But, he didn't. Bankie: That's what I was wondering about your training. Jerry: Yeah, no. No. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: Nobody told me. Maybe they thought I was smart. I don't know. Bankie: Do you remember, was there any chain of command that you can remember while you were there at Fort Baker? Jerry: The Sergeant was the boss. Bankie: The Sergeant was the boss. Okay. Jerry: I don't know any officers. I knew nobody, but the Sergeant was the boss. And he was a good boss. I had all the respect in the world for that man. Especially when he told me to eat soda crackers. Bankie: That was a good tip, right? Okay. I've only got a couple more questions. What would you like people in the future to know about what you or your unit did at Fort Baker in those days? Jerry: I guess the only thing I could say is that we kept them safe, and made sure that the bombs, I mean, the mines were out there ready to go if they needed. That's the only thing I would- Bankie: Okay. Did you use the word mine rather than torpedo then at that time? Jerry: Oh, it was mines. Bankie: Mines. Jerry: It was tricky mines. Bankie: Because originally they used the word torpedo. That word has changed in what it means since then. Jerry: No, we ... they were mines. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: And that's when the Sergeant took me into this building that I'm telling you about. And I saw all the yellow stuff going into these big, great big ... steel mines. And the only time I was ever in there, the whole time I was in there, I says, "I hope they don't blow. I hope they don't blow." Bankie: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: Like I said, it was ... Bankie: Okay. Jerry: But, I never saw one blow up. Never heard one blow up. Bankie: Do you have any last comments you'd like to make about your experiences there? Jerry: They're very quiet. That's why I say when we were coming over, there's not much. I did very little. But, did my job. The only job I had to do. And you know, it bothers me that I can't even remember going up to the mess hall to eat. Bankie: Yeah, I've got a couple illustrations I thought I'd show you that I brought. I'm going to leave those for you to have, if you'd like. Jerry: Okay. Bankie: This one called Forts under the Sea. It's a handout that we have about the under water mines and depots around the Golden Gate. Does this look kind of like the lay out as you remember it? The case made on the land, and then the mines with the cables and junction boxes in the water. Jerry: Yeah. The junction boxes where they ... yeah. The Niles would go out to the buoy. And get the mine, or find the mine, but they'd grapple for this, and bring it up, and we'd be sitting up here. But, I never saw a picture like that though. The junction box looks the same. Always round like that. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: And just barely get my legs around it when I was sitting on the bow of the deck. Bankie: Let's see, this just shows a sample of the different mine fields that were connected by the junction boxes. Does that look kind of like- Jerry: Well this, like I say, I never saw anything like this. They wouldn't tell me where they were, or how they were. All the Sergeants says, "There are mines all over this place out here." And that's all I ever was told. Bankie: Well, this says that there were 37 of them. And there were over about, almost 500 individual mines around the harbor entrance. Jerry: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, that's what we were doing. Bankie: Does this look like the type of mine? This round ball shape that you were working with? Jerry: Yup. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And here's ... this must've been where they filled them. And this is where we looked in to fill that stuff. I don't know. Yup. But, I didn't realize that there were that many. Bankie: Well, there were apparently quite a few out there. Jerry: Yeah. Bankie: I have a couple other- Jerry: I'm trying to find out where we took off from here. I can't ... where's the Gate? Bankie: Well, this isn't exactly accurate for San Francisco. It's kind of a general idea of harbor bends. Jerry: Here's the city, so I would say we were here some place. And we went out this way. But, I didn't know that they were that far in. We were always out here in the potato patches, where they roped most of them. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: It must've been these here or these. Bankie: All right. This was a layout of the buildings at the Fort Point mine depot. There was the Fort Point, the pier here, so the Golden Gate Bridge was over this way. Jerry: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bankie: And these were the buildings where they actually would've put the explosives in the mines, and run them out to the planters on the wharf. But, what I wanted to show you actually though were a few- Jerry: Can I see that? Excuse me. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). See, Fort Point had its own mine depot too. Jerry: If I can get oriented here. Come down in ... Bankie: This is the road that comes down in. The fort's under the bridge. Right over in here. So, it's before you get there, there's this fishing pier today. That was the mine depot wharf. Jerry: That's like a ... Bankie: That's Fort Point San Francisco side. Jerry: Oh, this is San Francisco side. Bankie: Right. See, there was one across from you. Jerry: Oh, no. I don't know a thing about this side. That's why I couldn't jive a thing here. Bankie: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: Do you got one for the other side? Bankie: No, I don't have one with me. Jerry: No, no, that was on the other. Now, they called it Fort Point? Bankie: Fort Point mine depot, yeah. Jerry: By golly, where was Baker? They told me I was going to Fort Baker. Bankie: You were. There were several around San Francisco. There was one out on Treasure Island. It was actually older than either of these two. But, this will tell you the history of the mine defense that has evolved. It will tell you when that area developed at Fort Baker. I was going to show you some pictures, what I have are only photos of the Fort Point side. And here's this one building, it says Loading Room Number One, on the front of this. And here's the tracks that ran the trolleys that went out to the ship. There were actually two of them beside each other. Telegraph cable crossing. That would come out. And then I have a picture of a mine planter. These may have been taken at Fort Mason though. Jerry: That doesn't look like the mine planter. Bankie: And here's one. We're not sure if that was a mine or a buoy showing in this picture here. Jerry: Well, it's been so long ago. It may be the Niles. I couldn't tell you. I don't know. Bankie: Well, there's one called the Spurgeon. This one is identified as the Spurgeon. There was another one called the Hermitage, that was in the Bay. Jerry: That isn't it. That isn't it. The Niles, you ought to have some record of the Niles. What's that picture? Bankie: This says, Man of battery A, 154th Coast Artillery. U.S.S Spurgeon. Jerry: Well, I never saw a picture like that. Bankie: Does this look like the smaller boat? You said you went out in, it's next to the larger, the planter? Jerry: Something with it would have a cabin on it though. Not open like that. It had a cabin. How come you don't have the records of the stuff that was over there? What you call Fort Point? Bankie: Well, there may be records around. We just haven't looked into this that deeply yet. Jerry: Mm-hmm (affirmative). No, our boat was about maybe that size, but it had a cabin. And it had a galley. I can't tell you how long it was. Bankie: Well, how long were you out normally when you went out to service a mine? Jerry: Oh, I would say we weren't out there more than two or three hours. Something like that. I remember thinking about it, the Sergeant saying something about, we better hurry up with the tide, because of the tide or something like that. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: But, I didn't pay too much attention to it. I respected him, and he knew what he was doing. So, I let him do it. Bankie: Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, he must've been there a while then if he knew exactly where to go. Jerry: Yeah, he had been there for quite some time. He was a Staff Sergeant, I'd give anything in the world to meet him again. There's very few people, very, very few people in the Army that I, I don't know why, whether it was my fault or their fault, or what, I cottoned up to. I tried to be a gentlemen the whole time I was there, and I didn't like these guys that weren't gentlemen. So, I stayed clear of them. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: Staff Sergeant, he was one of them. He was a gentlemen. My Company Commander was a big gentlemen. I'll tell you, he wouldn't say sh… if he had a mouth full of it. He was a great man. He knew his men too. I'll tell you what I think about it, every once in a while, the officers got a ... rations of whiskey or something, I don't know. I didn't drink. Neither did the CO. And I knew where my place was, so I don't drink either. I don't drink today. But, he would make all of the officers give up all of their liquor, he would go out of his own pocket and buy rum, and he'd have a party in the rumpus room or in the day room, for everyone. No passes I think. He'd keep a scoutsman troop on duty, and had a party for the rest of the men. He would sit, now you believe this or not, he would sit in the middle of that day room, and these guys would start feeling good. You know when people start feeling good, they start rapping off? Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: He would sit there and listen. And that was the last anybody ever heard of it, except if he found something that he didn't like. He would go out and have it changed. And that's the kind of man he was. He was a great man. He got his field commission. He got a field commission. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: And when I got to him, he was Major. And I kept asking, I says, "Hey, how about giving me a field commission?" He says, "Sergeant, you're as happy as you could be right now, aren't you?" I says, "Yeah, but," yeah, the TO don't call for it and all this kind of, he gave me the old song and dance. But, I liked him. He was a good man. Bankie: Well, I don't have any other questions. I was going to ask you if you had any other pictures there you'd like to show me or explain, your album? Jerry: I don't have too many pictures. Like I say, I think my wife took all of these to tell you the truth. And this is when we were getting married. Bankie: Yeah. Jerry: I'm pretty sure it's either this one or this one, I don't know, they don't say. But, like I said, when I went over there, I was quite disappointed. I didn't see what I was used to. What bothered me was the pier was gone. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: It wasn't there anymore. What did they do, tear it out? Bankie: Well, after this long. You know, it may have been damaged in storms, just rotted away. Jerry: Could've been. Bankie: Yeah. What's this a picture of here? I can't really tell what that is. Jerry: Well, that's out behind the, the bridge is over here. Bankie: Okay. Jerry: This is looking the other way. Yeah. But, the time I spent there, I'm not really a good man to be asking, because I wasn't there that long. And again, things I remember are things that impressed me. All the rest goes by the board. Bankie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jerry: I remember my guys I like, and I remember my enemies. Bankie: Yeah, okay. Jerry: I didn't have too many enemies. Well, I did have some. Bankie: Well, I'm going to turn off the tape player. I think we're finished.
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