Memories (U.S. National Park Service)

Episodes

September 12, 2022

1. Ada Mallard Rachal (1898-1991)

Transcript

David Dollar: Hello again, David Dollar, this morning, visiting all memories with Ms. Ada Rachal. Ms. Rachal, we thank you for joining us today. Why don't we start things off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and your family and some history and things. Ada Rachal: Thank you. David Dollar: Okay. Ada Rachal: My father was named Nester Greeter, either your own layer styles, and they had quite a big family. They married, they lived together until death, for around 60 some years. David Dollar: Oh goodness. Where were they living at the time? In other words where- Ada Rachal: Right about in this neighborhood. Never did move far away until later. David Dollar: Right around Shady Grove, huh? Ada Rachal: Around Shady Grove, uh-huh (affirmative). He reared a big family. My mother was the mother of 18 children. David Dollar: Ooh, goodness. Ada Rachal: Five sets twins. David Dollar: Five sets of twins. Ada Rachal: Five sets of twins and four sets of- David Dollar: My goodness. Ada Rachal: Four sets of twins in succession. David Dollar: I can't believe that. Ada Rachal: It's real, though. It's real. David Dollar: Goodness gracious. Ada Rachal: Five sets of twins. And she had 18 children. And I'm thankful to say that reared, those children, and none of us are that in no serious trouble, and never had to go to jail. David Dollar: My goodness. Just by odds alone, out of 18 people, you could just about say, one of them at least, was going to get into some kind of trouble. Ada Rachal: That's right. David Dollar: But y'all managed to stay out of it. Well that's good. Ada Rachal: I always said I loved my daddy. I loved both of them. I love my daddy. He was very interested in children learning to read the Bible. He couldn't read other books. But the Bible, he could really read it. And he had a big dining table, he'll sit with us around the table two or three times a week, and how he got all the testaments he had, and the Bible story books, I don't know how he got them, but he had them. And he was sitting with us around the table and have us all read with him. Learning how to read the Bible. And he would explain it to us. Made a pretty good living, or some may call it a hard time now what we went through, but we all appreciated the things that our parent doing to us. David Dollar: Oh I bet so. Ada Rachal: And grow the nice crop, and planted peas and corn, and everything. David Dollar: What all were they growing then? Just things for, like vegetables or doing cotton too? Ada Rachal: Cotton, too. Big, big cotton crops. And we worked in the field. I learned to use every plow the boy use. David Dollar: Oh goodness. Ada Rachal: I plowed along with the boys. David Dollar: So there wasn't that much difference between the children there. Ada Rachal: It wasn't. The girls and the boys worked together. David Dollar: Not boys doing this and girls doing that, you did whatever needed to be done. Ada Rachal: You did whatever they done. Cut wood whole, pick cotton, plow, do all of those things. David Dollar: Goodness gracious. Ada Rachal: And I loved it. My mother was very conscious about seeing that we had a plenty to eat, regardless of what it was. If it was nothing but peas and bread. David Dollar: There's going to be enough of it there. Ada Rachal: Plenty of that. David Dollar: Right. Ada Rachal: And she was very careful in dealing with the children, wouldn't just treat one. She was a good seamstress. She could sew, make clothes on her fingers and do things like that. But the real thing that I loved to do was to go to school whenever I could, whenever that we had school. We didn't have but three months of school. David Dollar: Oh yeah? Ada Rachal: Uh-huh (affirmative). David Dollar: When did you have school? How old were you when you first started? Ada Rachal: I was six years old. David Dollar: Six, okay. Ada Rachal: I was six, mm-hmmm. David Dollar: And where was the school? Here in the community? Ada Rachal: Here in the community. Up there around [inaudible 00:03:38]. And we go to school. We go from old houses where it wasn't nobody living in. And we'd have school in a old house and in the church house. David Dollar: What about the teacher? Where did he or she come from? Ada Rachal: Oh, well maybe out of town, somewhere like that. David Dollar: I know I've heard, talked to several folks around here and other places, too, how the parents would have to get together and get up the money to hire the teachers. Ada Rachal: That's right. Sometimes. So we have public school. If it's got to be three months and if their parents seeing that they need children back in the crops, they would take them back in the crop. Maybe one of the trustees go in and talk with the school board member and tell them that they the need the children back in school, call it the vines and weed growing up in the corn and need to week it out. David Dollar: So they kind of worked with the teacher and the school board, too. Ada Rachal: Oh, they did. They did. We worked together. David Dollar: Well that's good. Ada Rachal: We went to school and I did love to go to school. I learned many songs in school. David Dollar: Oh yeah, like to sing. Ada Rachal: Just like to sing. We've had many different recreations of concerts, you know, have concerts, some called drill. David Dollar: Now wait. Tell me about these concerts. Do you remember any, you know, really well that you could kind of tell me about or tell all of them? Ada Rachal: So yeah. See we'd have a different...we'd have bloom drills in the concert or you the band drill. Or sometimes we have a flag drill and representing the United States. We'd have a flag drill. David Dollar: What did you do in these concerts and drills? Ada Rachal: Well, we'd go around in circles and go round when [inaudible 00:05:27] come in, he'd make it very beautiful. Look like it was very following. You know, you're going around. David Dollar: Kind of marching around. Ada Rachal: Kind of marching around. David Dollar: Yeah. Ada Rachal: Some go one way, some go, then they meet and get together and go around again. It was beautiful. David Dollar: Who drew all these together? Who put them together? Ada Rachal: The teacher. David Dollar: The teacher did. Well, my goodness. Kind of like the marching bands today, like at football games. Ada Rachal: That's right, that's right. Something like that. David Dollar: So y'all were doing that, huh? Ada Rachal: That's right, we were doing that, in fact sometimes I look at it now I say, "Oh, we used to do something like that." But wasn't using decent instruments at that time, we'd be singing. We didn't have no band and nothing to play. But we would sing and keep music with that way. You know, it makes me very instrumental, and I love that. And I still have some poems that I still remember, that I said when I was going to school. David Dollar: Can you remember one you can tell us right now? You remember? Why don't you do that? Ada Rachal: After school and I got married when I was 17 years old. And I had done said this speech before. And so, "I know a wee couple that live in a tree, and in they high branches, their home you could see. The bright summer came, and the bright summer went. Their [inaudible 00:06:36] gone, but they never paid rent. The parlor, whose lined, it was the softest of wool. That kitchen was warm, and their pantry was full. Three little babes peeped out at the skies, you never saw darlings so pretty and shy. When winter came on with his frost and his snow, they cared not a bit if they heard the wind blow. All wrapped in fur they all lie down to sleep, but always spring how the bright eyes will peep." David Dollar: Oh yeah. Well that is might good. When did you learn that? Ada Rachal: Oh, I learned that when I was about 15 years old. David Dollar: You've got quite a memory there. Ada Rachal: Oh, about 15 years old or whatever would go on in school, I would kind of keep it in mind and then songs I kept them wrote down, On the Blue Ridge Mountain of Virginia, Come on Nancy and Put Your Best Dress On. And another one, let's see, it's I Have Friend Far Away, Far Away. David Dollar: Just all of them. You really enjoyed all of that. Ada Rachal: Mandalay, Mandalay. Yes, I enjoyed all that. I rehearsed it very much after I was married. David Dollar: I'll tell you what we need to take a short commercial break right here. We'll be right back visiting with Ms. Ada, Rachal this morning, right after our message from People's Bank and Trust Company, our sponsor. Hello, once again, in case you've just joined us David Dollar, today down in Shady Grove, visiting with Ms. Ada Rachal. Ms. Rachal, we've been talking about school and work and family, and all that. I'd like to ask you a little bit more about the family. Now, when was it that you were born and how did, how are you age-wise in relations to your brother and sisters, all 18 of them or 17 others, I guess Ada Rachal: Well I was born in March 17, 1898. David Dollar: 1898, okay. Ada Rachal: 1898. And it was about five older than me. And I was a twin, my twin is still living. He's living in San Francisco. David Dollar: Well I'll be. Ada Rachal: His name is Lee [inaudible 00:08:49]. David Dollar: I see. Ada Rachal: And we was a set of twins. Five sets. And I was one of them. David Dollar: So you had all these twins. Was it very much trouble for your mother or for you keeping up with twins, aren't two new babies a lot harder to keep up with than one new baby? Ada Rachal: It didn't seem like it was hard because always some older. It's about three or four was older than the first set of twins. Then we would take care of the baby- David Dollar: So your mom always had help. Ada Rachal: Had help. We would take care of them. And after I grew , around nine or 11 years old, well, that was my job taking care of the babies, too. And then cook and feed the babies and cook for my father and mother while he was at work. David Dollar: So you're an old hand- Ada Rachal: I'm an old hand. David Dollar: At keeping up with children and keeping house, and- Ada Rachal: Then I did midwife work for about 41 years. David Dollar: Oh really? Ada Rachal: I did. David Dollar: Right around here? Ada Rachal: I delivered many babies around here, [inaudible 00:09:42]. David Dollar: Well, I'll be. Ada Rachal: I started working when I was 29 years old and I quit when I was 70. David Dollar: You had practice doing that, too, huh? Ada Rachal: It was just a gift God gave me. And then I had a book that I'd read and my mother a doctor book called A Family Book, and I read that book and learned how to do what it says how to treat them all, and they want to do. And I went about that. After going into the work, I got quite a bit of experience, and working with doctors, too, when they had to call the doctor in the home. And I worked right along with him. Man didn't need to tell me- David Dollar: Learned with him and help him. Ada Rachal: I worked so diligently with that, and loved the job so well to Dr. Reed, or from [inaudible 00:10:23] she says now, but he's wanted me to leave my work from home and follow him. Turned around said, "I'd make a registered nurse out of you." David Dollar: My goodness. Ada Rachal: And I was anxious to, but [inaudible 00:10:32] said, "No, I married you to take care of me and my business." So that's why I didn't go into that. [crosstalk 00:10:41]. David Dollar: Well that sure is interesting. Ada Rachal: I worked until I was 70. David Dollar: And without the up-to-date hospitals and transportation service we've got today, folks like you are very much needed in communities not real close to big hospitals like in [inaudible 00:10:55]. Lady had to have a baby, she couldn't get in the wagon and head for [inaudible 00:11:00]. Ada Rachal: Well at my age I would be very interested in helping out anywhere now. I loved it. I felt like that was my calling. David Dollar: I bet you help. A lot of people felt that was your calling to help them out and their babies. Ada Rachal: I'm sure I delivered around 500 babies. David Dollar: Oh goodness. That is something. Ms. Rachal, we're just about out of time Ada Rachal: And then in two or three families, I delivered all of their babies. David Dollar: The whole family, huh? Ada Rachal: They have 10 or 11 kids, and I delivered all of them. David Dollar: And you were there for all of them. Ada Rachal: That's right. David Dollar: Oh, goodness. Again, we're just about out of time. Let me ask you for your closing memory that you wanted me to remind you about your grandma. Why don't you tell us about that? Ada Rachal: Oh yes, I'll be glad to tell that. My grandmother, she was very good Christian woman. And she said God revealed to her that she had only five more years to live. Well she told that after the death of one of her grandchildren and she say, "Well, I got five more years to live." Said, "It has been revealed to me that I live five more years." And sure enough, at five years she passed. She had cancer. She had about five cancers, and she lived two years off and on, on the bed. And right up to the time she say she would leave us when she did. David Dollar: She knew what was going on. Ada Rachal: Yeah, she knew what was going on. I said, a person with a Christian experience, God do reveal things to them. And when we live close to Him, He's always with us and He will give us what to know, what He want us to do, and what's going to happen. David Dollar: Well, amen. That's a very fine closing memory and the whole visit this morning has been quite nice. And we thank you for sharing all this with us today. Ada Rachal: Yeah. Thank you. David Dollar: Okay.

Ada Rachal: Her father taught her how to read and interpret the Bible. She and her family use to work in the field farming. She remembers her time in school and got married when she was 17 and is fond of poetry. She is a former midwife.

September 19, 2022

2. Alonzo Plummer (1893 - 1980)

Transcript

David Dollar: Hi. In case you just joined us, this is David Dollar. We're going to visit this morning with Mr. Alonzo Plummer of [inaudible 00:00:07] on Memories. Mr. Plummer, why don't you start things off, just tell us a little bit about yourself? Alonzo Plummer: Well, to begin with my father, Allen Leroy Plummer, was a Civil War veteran. My mother was Nora Squyres. They married when he was 40 and she 20. There are four of us of the family. This was at Summerville. I was born at Summerville, Louisiana in 1893. In 1896, my family moved to the community of Nebo near Catahoula Lake over in what is now La Salle parish. The home in which we moved was quite a contrast from what we had previously lived in. It had begun with a log house and been repaired and redone until you would hardly recognize what it was, but it turned out to be a rather comfortable place. The big draw back there was mosquitoes. We had to sleep under bars, that is nets that were to keep the mosquitoes out. I had malaria at the time. My father was principally engaged, at that time, in raising cows. He had previously been a teacher in one room schools over the area. The ill health of my mother had caused him to take up an occupation where you could stay closer home, and he left that. At Nebo I went to school in a little one room school. It was a church house, really. Most of the rural schools in the area, I might say in the whole area of the South, rural schools were in church houses. In the South there was very little tax money left to look out for either schools or roads in this state due to the fact that Louisiana was one of the few states that didn't repudiate the Civil War debt, a big part of which was brought on by the carpet bagger regime in Louisiana and for years after the war. It's been in recent years. I remember the campaign of one Jared Y. Sanders for governor of Louisiana in which he had... One of the big issues of his campaign was to pay the debt. Pay the debt and get it over. David Dollar: Get it behind us. Alonzo Plummer: Yeah, get it behind us. David Dollar: Just a matter of curiosity, was he elected? Alonzo Plummer: Yes, he was elected. David Dollar: He was? That was before my time a little bit I'm afraid. Alonzo Plummer: Yeah, he was elected. David Dollar: Well, I'll be. Alonzo Plummer: Something about the school. Our school was unique in one respect, and that was in what we might call now refrigeration. We didn't see it was refrigeration then, but to a degree it was refrigeration. A very beautiful cold water, clear spring creek passed right by the door. Most of the children, in fact, I think all of us took milk to school. We put it in bottles, put a string around the bottle and put it around our necks as a convenience to carry it. When we got to the school house we tied it to a root in a tree next to the creek and it stayed in there and it was nice and fresh. David Dollar: It stayed real cold, huh? Alonzo Plummer: It stayed nice and fresh. So, we had a pretty good lunch. I'll give you a few things with reference to the activities within the school. One of the things, a little incident that illustrates something of what was going on happened to me. We were studying geography, and the geographies at that time were illustrated and then just questions asked. For instance, land forms. They asked what was an island? And what was an isthmus? And so on. We stood up, most of us barefooted, and you can imagine a line of people standing up toeing a crack across the building and standing up there just as erect as we could be. The teacher asked those questions as they were in that book and we were supposed to answer them verbatim according to what was in the book. Well, a question came to me as to what was an island? Well, all those words just flat wouldn't come to me. And I said, "Well, an island is a small body of land with water all around it." Well that wasn't acceptable at all. I passed it on to the next person and she knew it verbatim and she turned me down. We had a turning down process of going to the head and so on and standing the foot. So I got turned down on that, and the next thing that came around to me was, what was a continent? My answer was that it was a large body of land that had water all around it. Or almost all around it, but that wasn't any good. It was large body of land surrounded by, or almost surrounded by water. That was the wording. Well, I was turned down again and that meant that I spent my recess time- David Dollar: Studying geography [crosstalk 00:08:45]. Alonzo Plummer: Studying geography. But the humiliation of it was what really got me because it didn't take me any time. I remembered whoever turned me down, when they gave the right direction- David Dollar: Then you knew the answer [crosstalk 00:09:06]. Alonzo Plummer: I knew the answer already. David Dollar: Just a little bit late. I tell you what, Mr. Plummer, I don't want to turn you down or anything, but what I want do is interrupt right now for a commercial message from the folks that are bringing you Memories this morning, People's Bank & Trust Company. We'll be right back. This is David Dollar, again, on Memories. In case you just joined us, we're visiting this morning with Mr. Alonzo Plummer. Mr. Plummer, you mentioned something. When we were talking earlier, you seemed to be very knowledgeable about the Civil War. Why don't you tell us a little bit about some of your vested interest in the Civil War, and some things that went on when you were living over in Mansfield? Alonzo Plummer: Well, my people on both sides were very much involved in the Civil War. My father fought during the Civil War and the whole period through. He was discharged. I say discharged. They didn't give him a discharge. They gave him a parole at Vicksburg. No, at Mansfield, rather. Pardon me, at Mansfield in 1865. He had formerly been a member of Company A, 17th Louisiana Infantry. That organization was captured at Vicksburg when Vicksburg fell. But he didn't go in. He slipped out, got on a log on the Mississippi River and floated down to where he could get over in Louisiana, and he joined General Taylor's forces on the west side of the Mississippi River. That brought him to the Battle of Mansfield. Then in 1960, I became superintendent of the Mansfield Battle Park and Museum. The battle park was a part of the old battleground, and the museum contained relics of the battle and other Civil War relics. We didn't just stick to the things that were used at Mansfield. David Dollar: But the whole war, yeah. Alonzo Plummer: But the whole war. David Dollar: So they had somebody that was almost as good as firsthand, at least secondhand, having you there at the museum about that, because your own father was right there in that very battle. Alonzo Plummer: That's right. And I'll mention this. Before any marker or anything had ever been put up there, I passed along that road with him, and I didn't know anything about it then. I didn't know anything about even a battle having been fought right there. He looked around there and he said, "Well," he said, "Right here is where Dick Taylor whipped the hell out of Banks." And that was his- David Dollar: That was it. Alonzo Plummer: That was it. David Dollar: And he knew the spot. Well, Mr. Plummer, let me interrupt you one more time. We need to take one more short commercial break. We'll be right back on Memories this morning with Mr. Alonzo Plummer. Mr. Plummer, we like to close our program every week by having what we call a closing memory. If you've got something you'd like to share with us, why don't you go ahead now. Alonzo Plummer: Well, the thing that I would like to share with you is the most important decision of my life. In 19 and 16, I met Miss Ala Lee Joyce. In May of 19 and 17, I had had, my mother had been ill and I'd been in close attendance with her, and I didn't have much chance to go see anybody. But anyway, we worked our courtship along, and in May of 1916, 1917 rather, in May of 1917, we decided to make a life partnership under a shade tree out in front of their home at Campti. David Dollar: Well, I think that's a very fitting closing memory for our program. Thank you for sharing it with us. Mr. Alonzo Plummer was with us this morning on Memories.

Mr. Plummer is a regular guest on Memories. He talks about his time in school, at Normal College (present day Northwestern State). He also discusses his time in elementary school and how it differs from the school schedules today.

September 26, 2022

3. Alonzo Plummer (1893 - 1980) Part II

Transcript

David Dollar: Hello again. In case you just joined us. I'm David Dollar. We're going to visit this morning again with Mr. Alonzo Plumber. I think we're going to try to talk a little bit about education this morning. So Mr. Plumber, why don't you take it from there and do what you will with it? Alonzo Plumber: Oh, okay. Well, I'm going back to Nebo again. David Dollar: Good. Alonzo Plumber: There was a typical thing that happened that's probably... You wouldn't, most of you understand the sanitary facilities that had to do with that school, it was very simple and natural. The boys had the north side of the road and the girls, the south side in the woods. This except for the fact that most of them didn't have a creek to use for refrigeration purposes, this was a typical country school. I would say over the south, not just in Louisiana, but over the south. My mother and father realized, they were ambitious for us. And they realized that the facilities there were altogether inadequate. And they had read of this normal school at Natchitoches and decided to move to Natchitoches. So the family moved in 19 and three to 110 Casbury Street there in Natchitoches ... Normal Hill, as it was called at that time. And as Louisiana state normal school didn't have one brick building on it. Every building was a wooden building. The two buildings that housed the classrooms and other educational facilities, one of them was about in the position that the old science building that burned down was in and the other just across the driveway from it was known as a model school. And that model school took in from the beginners up to oh, about seventh or eighth grade. And that was the only school below the normal level, except for a short time, Mr. Greeno ran a private school on... In the position that's now occupied by the parking lot that is provided by the police jury here in this parish. David Dollar: Right? Right. Alonzo Plumber: I came to school here, entered the third grade was a miss Henrietta Lewis as teacher. I think all of us loved Ms. Lewis. She was a fine person. I was in school here for then continuously for five years. We had this advantage and the organization and the school was such that it was in four months terms and there were three, four months terms in a year. And we could go to school 12 months in the year. Well, a part of the time I did that. And the part of the time I worked during the summer, even as a child. David Dollar: This allowed the children to help their parents then doing crops and things like that during the rotation series. Alonzo Plumber: My family lived here in Gnatcatchers. The crop situation didn't come into the picture for us, but it. David Dollar: It did for some others, then. Alonzo Plumber: It did for some of the people. However, I'll say that to emphasize the fact that most of the schools outside of the centers, the wealthier centers of population, or these little one room schools there was at the time and it existed for a number of years after we came here in 19 and three, there was a school that's now on very near where the valley electric company is. That close end operated a one room. David Dollar: Well I'll be darned. Mr. Plumber, let me interrupt you right here. We've got to take a commercial break right now. A little word from our sponsors, the folks at People's Bank and Trust Company. In case you just joined us. This is David dollar. We're visit visiting this morning again with Mr. Alonzo Plumber on memories. Mr. Plumber, we've been talking a little bit about education. Why don't we skip just a few years after you left the normal school here, when you yourself began teaching. Why don't you start there with it? Alonzo Plumber: Well, that was [inaudible 00:06:17] considerably in 19 and eight at the mature age of 15, I was a teacher in one of those little one room schools down close to Bichico in what was then St. Landry Parish. It's now Evangeline Parish. I began the process then, the next year I didn't go to school. And then the following year during the summer, I had ... I happened to be in one of the classes taught by Mr. D.G. Lonsberry, who was superintendent of schools in east Louisiana Parish. Well, the state had become more involved in public education, and they were promoting consolidation of these country schools. So he offered me the principalship of the Bluff Creek Consolidated School in east Louisiana Parish. David Dollar: And how old were you at this time? Alonzo Plumber: I was 17 at that time. David Dollar: 17 and a principal? Alonzo Plumber: That's right. David Dollar: My goodness. Alonzo Plumber: And the faculty, three besides myself, the oldest one of them was 19. And they had come up somewhat in the same fashion that I had. David Dollar: What was one of the reasons that the state was pushing for this consolidated school now? Alonzo Plumber: Well, there were many reasons people could readily see that the one room school was not the answer. The thing that retarded that thing the more was roads and transportation. David Dollar: Transportation. I can understand that. Alonzo Plumber: And they were very, very ... well, in fact, no improved roads, you might say, in the state. In fact, right here in Gnatcatchers Parish. When I came to Gnatcatchers there was not an improved road running into Gnatcatchers. Not a one. I don't mean even a gravel road. David Dollar: Even with the college here? Alonzo Plumber: That's right. David Dollar: Not a road? My goodness. Alonzo Plumber: Not a one. And the original pavement on Front Street was going on, and that was the first piece of pavement in the city of Natchitoches. David Dollar: My goodness. Alonzo Plumber: That was in 19 and three. David Dollar: So you were in about 19... What? Eight or 10 or so? Something like that. You were teaching as well as coming back to normal here, working on your degree, is that true? Alonzo Plumber: Well, we didn't think about degrees then the old normal was not a college and that is it. Wasn't a four year college that offered a degree. But I was alternating teaching ... David Dollar: An education, yourself? Being a teacher and a student and a principal all at the same time? Alonzo Plumber: Yeah, that's right. Going on. David Dollar: That's pretty unique. Let me interrupt you one more time for a commercial message from our sponsors this morning, People's Bank and Trust Company. We'll be right back. Mr. Plumber. We like to close our programs with a closing memory. If you've got something you can share with us, why don't you do that at this time? Alonzo Plumber: This sticks in my memory, I don't know that it's significant from any very ... a great point of view, but I remember a student who felt like always that he was being picked on. And he was a regular problem. The boys wanted to be nice to him, but, you know, they would pick at him a little. And I remember one incident, Victor connected with it. He had got him a new Topco. Very proud of it. And in coming downstairs for a recess period, the boys, a number of them had taken their finger in mark... that is put pressure up and down his back. And the others would say, well, now I wouldn't mark that boy up like that. I just wouldn't ruin his coat by putting praying marks all over it. So he came in tears to me, down in the office telling that tale. And I said, well, and he was sincere in it. I said, now that's pretty bad, but are you sure? I had seen the back of his coat and he had. Are you sure that they did that? Oh, yes. I sure. Well, I had him take off his coat and hanging up on the [inaudible 00:11:39] there in the office was back toward him. And he saw it. Well, he just liked to fainted. David Dollar: Cause he ... Alonzo Plumber: And he had... it brought the whole picture to him about the type of thing that he had been doing that caused him not to get along well with people. David Dollar: Well, I... Alonzo Plumber: And he was pretty much of a changed person. David Dollar: Well, that's great. Things are not always what we think they are. Are they? Alonzo Plumber: They sure are. David Dollar: So that's a lesson that we all could learn. We'd like to, to thank you, Mr. Plumber for joining us again today on Memories. If you folks enjoyed the show today, if you were listening, why don't you let the folks at People's Bank know about it?

October 3, 2022

4. Alvin Mathisen (1895-1992)

Transcript

David Dollar: This is the Memories program and we're visiting with Mr. Matheson on Williams Avenue. Mr. Matheson, welcome to the show. We wanted to talk with you about growing up. We were talking before the show began about Chicago and snow. Alvin Matheson: Well, it's been a long time ago since I experienced all that, but probably about 19-8, 19-9, I was with some friends visiting our school teacher and we were traveling in bob sleigh team of horses, had sleigh bells and usual thing. A number of us in the wagon box or sleigh box, we were having jolly old time. Weather was cold and driving along, horses were trotting, the bells were ringing, snow was creaking under the sleigh runners, and we finally got to our destination. David Dollar: How did you make a bobsled? We were talking about that. I don't think us Louisiana people know about bobsleds. Alvin Matheson: Well, there's two sleds, a large sled on the part that turns on the wagon box and another sled behind and had a wagon box on top, probably about three feet wide, 10 feet long, maybe two and a half, three feet high. The bobsled was partially filled with straw and blankets. We crawled in between the blankets and had more blankets on top of us to get away from the cold. This all a big snowstorm, the temperature was dropping rapidly. It was probably down near zero or lower. When we got to our destination, they had, stove was cherry red, eating. The house was warm. Horses were unhitched in the stable, blanketed. We had our party and a couple hours we went back and re-hitched the team and drove back to our original point of origin. I got out. I was about a mile from where we lived and I walked through the woods over the snow. No sun. The moon was shining bright and no wind. Snow was frozen solid, or frozen. As we walked along, the snow particles would creek under my feet, sounded something like a violin squeaking. When I got home and our stove at home was back for the night, house was still warm. David Dollar: I just can't imagine anything that cold. Alvin Matheson: Well then when I got home, it was several degrees below zero. I don't remember how much, but I know it was several below zero. Of course, we were dressed for it. We had clothes that protected us pretty well from elements. David Dollar: People who grew up in cold weather knew how to live in it. Alvin Matheson: We knew how to live it all right. We enjoyed it. Had a lot of pleasures in the winter time in those days. Of course I was young. David Dollar: You didn't think about how cold it was? Alvin Matheson: No. No. I didn't mind the cold at all. David Dollar: What was school like in those days? Alvin Matheson: Well, it was a one room school. Our teacher was a young lady. She was probably about 18 years old, two or three years older than I was probably. She had two sisters. They were going to school. Younger one I thought was pretty nice gal, but she couldn't see me. She had her eyes on somebody else. Of course, it wasn't long after that, that may have been the last time I saw those people because shortly after that I left home and I didn't get home then except her visits. David Dollar: Where did you leave home to? Where'd you go after you finished school? Alvin Matheson: At that time, we lived about 30 miles south of Chicago. I went out to an uncle's farm about 15 or 20 miles south of there at Elwood, Illinois. Then in 1913, I started working for the railroad as a telegraph operator. David Dollar: You were showing me the telegraph key you still have here. At the end of the show, we'll get you to type out some things for us. Maybe you can type out [inaudible 00:04:35] and some other things. I bet there are a lot of people in our listening audience who remember hearing the old telegraph in railroad stations. Alvin Matheson: There's no doubt that they had because there were all railroad stations had them. The railroad stations were quite frequent. On our railroad when I started working for them, we had a station about every five miles. In order to handle a trains and keep them in a proper distance from each other to avoid any possibility of rear end or head on collisions. Of course, things at that time was handled by manual signals, train orders. Now it's pretty well automated. David Dollar: Did you work as a telegraph operator the rest of your life? Alvin Matheson: No. I worked as a telegraph operator for several years, well probably three years. I enlisted in the army. I was in the army for during World War I for two years, came back and went to work as an operator again for the Santa Fe. I worked for two or three years. Then I went to work as a station agent at a pretty busy town. It was a number of us employees there taking care of things. Then later on I went to division offices and was a telegrapher again for a short time until I started working as a train dispatcher. David Dollar: The railroad days were really nation building days. I don't believe railroads have the same kind of roles that they used to have. Alvin Matheson: No. There's really a romance to railroading in those days, because everybody took pride in it, in their work. Some of the engineers would take on their days off would polish the brass on their engines and everything was well thought of and exciting. There was always something going on. If anything can happen, it can happen on a railroad [inaudible 00:06:36]. David Dollar: We were talking before the show, a story about railroad or excuse me, telegraph operators and how they just kind of automatically heard messages and sometime it didn't register with them. I think that's a good story about the newspaper off. I'd appreciate if you'd tell that again for us. Alvin Matheson: Well, there was a story that a telegraph operators. I think it was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the telegraph office was directly across the street from the newspaper offices. They noticed one day that there was quite a bit of excitement at the bulletin board at the newspaper office and wondering what it was. They sent somebody across the street to find out and he came back and told them, he said, "Notice of President Lyndon's assassination. Of course, there's only one way that information could get into town, and that was to be through that telegram office. They started looking through their files and finally found a copy and copied it. He didn't know anything about it. He'd copied the telegram or the news dispatch without noting the contents, passed it through and finally reached the newspaper office. That was the first I knew of it. David Dollar: The message had so automatically been received and recorded and given to the right destination that the operator himself had not known what he'd taken down? Alvin Matheson: In telegraphing, everything got so automatic that they'd copy that down on a typewriter and not paying attention to what they were copying. Maybe they were talking to somebody else at the same time and it passed on through. David Dollar: Mr. Matheson, we're going to take a break right now for People's Bank and Trust, our sponsors, but we'll be back in just a moment. This is the Memories program. We're visiting this morning with Mr. Alvin Matheson. Mr. Matheson, you served in the army in World War I in the signal corps. Alvin Matheson: That's right. I enlisted in, it was in July, 1917. From there, I went to Fort Leavenworth and was in training at Fort Leavenworth until the following spring when we left and for Europe. On our way to Europe, we stopped at Camp Wadsworth, South Carolina, Camp Mills in Long Island, and then embarked on an old British mail packet that we sailed on. We sailed the 4th of July in 1918, landed in Le Havre. France about 15 days later. That old mail packet was a mail ship that had been flying between England and India carrying mail. It was a pretty old tub. It's handled by the British and their food wasn't too well, had quite a bit of Australian rabbit for meals, and quite often would have a dish bowl of rabbit stew. The eyes of rabbits would be looking up at us. David Dollar: I can hear you saying that you like food. We were talking right before the show about a berry pie you picked for while you were in Europe. Alvin Matheson: This is after we're in Europe, in St. Gerard's sector, sort of a quiet sector before we went up to the active front. We were holding down the line and is was in the Gerard in the [foreign language 00:10:15] mountains. Had a lot of blackberries around there, but all the good blackberries were out in no man's land. There was two of us went out wanted some blackberry pie. We made a deal with a cook to make some blackberry pie. The two of us went out and started picking blackberries and about the time we had enough for a pie, the Germans started shooting at us. We hear the bullets crack as they landed on the hillside. We got back behind the bushes, back into the trenches and went back and took the berries to our mesh sergeant who made us a pie, but with no sugar in. It was awful sour piece of pie. David Dollar: But you had had your berry pie. Alvin Matheson: We had our berry pie. David Dollar: Did you ever see any action during the war in Europe? Alvin Matheson: Yes. We're in the final drive news argon, and we're following the Germans. They were on the retreat at that time and they were on the run. We were following them close behind and got up as far as [inaudible 00:11:23]. We had an air raid there. After, when in the bullets, we were sleeping in some German bullets, which made up of a wooden frame where a mesh for the bottom. I remember going to sleep there on this night and woke up hearing a bomb explode in the distance. Then a little closer. Finally, the third one was very loud and it hit a church steeple right across the alley from where we were sleeping. We thought the church steeple came down on top of the building that we were in. By the time I got up and got my shoes on and got to the door, everybody and everything had disappeared. No sound, no trucks, [inaudible 00:12:12] in front of it and [inaudible 00:12:15] been packed with trucks and cars. They were all gone. Nobody was around. I stood there for a while and finally went back and went back to sleep, back to bed. Got up the next morning, by that time, some of the boys had run out the night before were coming back after a night of hiding out. David Dollar: You had had a good night's sleep and they had spent the night worrying about the bombs. Alvin Matheson: I had a good night's sleep, and I felt good the next day when we started out finding the enemy again. David Dollar: We have your telegraph key here in front of us. I think as a good memory of the railroad era, you might want to type out a message for us. Alvin Matheson: Here it is. Natchitoches is by Centennial City in 1976. David Dollar: If I were sitting in a railroad station, I would've had a telegraph operator who would've told me that that was Natchitoches as a bicentennial city, 1976. Thank you for visiting with us, Mr. Matheson. We appreciate you sharing your memories with us. Alvin Matheson: Glad to do it.

Alvin Mathison speaks of visiting with friends in Chicago and seeing snow. He remembers making a bobsled. He was a telegraph operator. at a railroad in Chicago.

October 10, 2022

5. Amelia Aaron (1902-2000)

Transcript

David Dollar: Hi, in case you just joined us this is David Dollar for our Memories Program this morning. We're visiting with Mrs. Amelia Holmes-Aaron of Natchitoches. Mrs. Aaron, why don't you begin our program talking a little bit about... let's say when you came to Natchitoches. Amelia Aaron: David, we moved here in January of 1924, originally from St. Landry Parish. One of my sisters worked as a telegraph operator for the Texas and Pacific Railroad and she was transferred from Plaquemines, Louisiana. It took us all day to come from Plaquemines up to where we formally lived in St. Landry Parish, the town of Morrow. And we spent the night there. It was a bad rainy day. Of course, January. It's prone to be that way. Then the next day we started out bright and early and got as far as Saint Maurice, Louisiana. They were working on the highways at that time. And we had to detour around what was supposed to have been a bridge and of course we got stuck. Mired down I think is the right word for it and we were really mired down. So we had to spend the night in St. Maurice being that close to Natchitoches. All in all, you see that took 2 days. David Dollar: A 2 day drive. Amelia Aaron: And now you can make it, I'm sure, in 3 hours. David Dollar: Tell me about your sister's job. We were talking about that a little bit earlier. I was very interested in that because you mentioned some things that I had seen in movies, but I was never really sure if they were real or just contrived or what. Tell me what we talked about a little. Amelia Aaron: In those days, the train orders had to be handed up to the train crew, which of course was the engineer and conductor mainly on hooks. And the hook had a little clip that held the train orders and the operators, or agents or whoever it had to be, had to stand close enough to the tracks for the engineer to lean down out of the cab of the engine and put his arm through that hook. David Dollar: While the train was still going. Amelia Aaron: While the train just going 90 to nothing. Then he had to throw the hoops back. And of course, sometimes it would be half a mile from the station, from the Depot. And of course in high Johnsongrass and weeds. David Dollar: All by the train tracks there. Amelia Aaron: Rain or shine, those hooks had to be retrieved and brought back for the next train orders that they needed to hand. We have a real smart dog that we named nuisance because he was into everything. This dog learned to find those hooks regardless of where they were or how far or whether they were in deep grass or whatever. That dog would look until he found those hooks and would bring them back to my sister. So you can imagine what a help that was. On a cold dark rainy night. And of course there were no lights. It was just dark. All she had was a lantern. A very little lantern. David Dollar: So I bet the dog got a couple of extra scraps at suppertime or something for helping out like that. Amelia Aaron: We love that dog. But that was one of the smartest dogs that I ever saw in my life. What else now did you ask me? David Dollar: We talked about a couple of the memories programs that you especially liked. Why don't you pick up there? Amelia Aaron: Yes, that's true. But let me say here before we do go to the other programs. That after being transferred to Natchitoches, she had a daytime job from 8 in the morning to 4 in the afternoon. And the old depot was down across the tracks from the college at that time. I know the old timers all remembered that. But you weren't here at that time... you weren't even born probably. And the school was largely attended by girls. Of course there was some boys, but there were more girls and twice a week, the girls were allowed to come to town to shop or whatever. It was quite a sight to see those pretty girls all the way from the college parading down Front Street. David Dollar: Just a line of girls. Amelia Aaron: Just a line of girls. Girls all the way from the college to Front Street. David Dollar: I wish I had been around then. I think I would've enjoyed that too. Amelia Aaron: Imagine that they wouldn't let them come to town but twice a week. David Dollar: I can't imagine that with all the things going on up here now, it's hard to believe. Let me interrupt you right here. Just a second for a commercial message from our sponsor Peoples Bank, we'll be right back. Hello again, in case you just are joining us this morning, David Dollar here on memories visiting with Mrs. Amelia Holmes-Aaron. Ms. Aaron, I got a little bit ahead of myself on the schedule here. Why don't you tell us now that we were talking about a little earlier. Amelia Aaron: I wanted to say how I enjoyed Jo Bryan's interviews, especially the one about the outdoor theater at the college. I saw the play she mentioned "a Midsummer's night dream" and it was really great. But she failed to say that Jack [inaudible 00:05:51], her husband's younger brother played the part of the devil and He would jump so high in the air, which of course was part of the play. Now getting back to the depot. After the new Depot was built, the passenger trains would set one of the passenger coaches out on the sport track. That was up just for that purpose at the college. And that was during the holidays in the school. And of course students were just roll on the coaches right there and then the train would pick them up. David Dollar: So the train actually came on campus, more or less, to pick up students or had a coach there for. Amelia Aaron: It would run this coach in there to pick up the students. Now my sister would go up to the college to sell the tickets. David Dollar: For the students to get on the train. They didn't have to go to depot or anything. Amelia Aaron: They didn't have to come to the depot. David Dollar: That's service with a smile thee. Amelia Aaron: She would go up there to sell the tickets. Now, of course, all of this was discontinued after automobiles got more commonplace. That was just part of the early era of the college. David Dollar: Personally I've only ridden the train, I think, once or maybe twice in my whole life. Amelia Aaron: Well you missed a lot. David Dollar: It seems very, I guess, romantic, almost. Of course I'm sure it was, more or less, a horrible way to travel if you had to go all across country or something. Amelia Aaron: But David people used to get on here with a small child and someone would meet them in Natchitoches to bring them back. Just so the child could ride the train. That was a highlight. David Dollar: I can imagine. I think I'd like to do that. Why don't you pick up here and talk a little bit about some of the weather you've seen here in Natchitoches and the beautiful day we've got going here so far? Amelia Aaron: Somewhere in my possessions I have pictures of the big snow that we had I think about 1928. That was before Front Street was widened and we had more riverbank at that time. The old iron bridge... the only bridge we had in town... A one way bridge. But the picture of that bridge covered with snow and the riverbank was really just beautiful. David Dollar: I bet so. Amelia Aaron: The river froze over of course, which it seldom ever does anymore. [crosstalk 00:08:29] They had a very pretty fountain right across from the Exchange Bank. And that fountain completely froze. And the long icicles just touching the ground all the way around that fountain, just a solid sheet of ice. It really was. It was just beautiful. David Dollar: I want to ask a personal question and I hope it'll fit into some things you want to talk about. Did you ever get to see the Christmas festival? I mean how long ago did this thing start? I know it's been going on quite a while. Amelia Aaron: I hope that I got to see the very first one. David Dollar: Oh really? I'd like to hear about that. Amelia Aaron: Because doctor Joe Stevens' house caught on fire. I suppose they use more big Roman candles because one of the five bowls went right straight across instead of going up in the air. It went right across the river and landed back onto Joe Stevens house, which of course is not there anymore. But it wasn't too serious. The hardest thing I think was the one fire engine getting across the bridge. David Dollar: Getting across a one lane, one way bridge with all those people in town. Amelia Aaron: We had a bridge by that time, I think. I believe we did. I hope I'm right on that. Anyway, it was dry leaves on the roof and in the gutters that caused the fire and the fire engines just got there in time to keep any damage. David Dollar: I'm glad of that, but I bet that was a pretty spectacular fireworks after the Christmas festival there. Amelia Aaron: It was during the festival. So of course it kind of held things up a little bit. David Dollar: I bet so. I bet some people get real excited especially the Stevens. Let me stop you right here. We're just about out of time. And I would like to ask... We try to end our program with what we call a closing memory. And I'm just wondering if you've got one up your sleeve for us. Amelia Aaron: I was going to mention the fact that we did get milk in bottles with cream on top just as Reverend [inaudible 00:10:30] the news mentioned that he did. David Dollar: So he's not pulling our leg. Amelia Aaron: Mr. Red Jones delivered our milk at that time. So my closing memory would be that I just want to thank the Peoples Bank and Roger Williams for sponsoring this unique program because people do enjoy it. Most every place I go someone has heard it that morning or mentioned something about it. So I know that it's... David Dollar: I find folks like that myself. Amelia Aaron: I think it's very, very nice. David Dollar: I'm glad you think that way, and I'm glad you joined us this morning and I'm sure the folks at Peoples Bank thank you too and join us in thanking you for participating and for your kind words.

Her father worked on a railroad from St. Landry Parish. In her childhood, she and her friends would play with red clay, or mud toys. She rode on a Pullman to New Orleans for Mardi Gras and across the Mississippi River. She talks about her times traveling around Louisiana.

October 17, 2022

6. Amelia Aaron (1902-2000)Part II

Transcript

Jim: Mrs. Aaron, welcome to the memories program. We're awful glad to have you here. Amelia Aaron: Hi, Jim. I'm glad to be here. Jim: You've been on the program several times, but it still makes you kind of nervous, doesn't it? Amelia Aaron: Yes, it does. Jim: We were visiting right before we began about some of your experiences. You had told me that your father worked for the railroad, which railroad was that? Amelia Aaron: The Texas and Pacific Railroad. And he was at Pelican, Louisiana, up here near Mansfield, which at that time was the main railroad. Natchitoches was on a branch. And that is where I was born. I won't tell you when. Jim: You were born at Pelican? Amelia Aaron: Uh-huh (affirmative). One other sister, just older than I, my sister Ruby and I were born in Pelican. And we were called the hillbillies of the family, because all the rest of the family, which was five other sisters, not counting Ruby and I, and my baby brother were all born in Avoyelles Parish. I don't mean Avoyelles, that's St. Landry, right next to Avoyelles, in the little town of Rosa. Jim: And you were the hillbillies, because you were born up here? Amelia Aaron: We were born in the hills of North Louisiana. So we were more or less Northerners, I guess you'd say Yankees. Jim: As children growing up, what did you all do to entertain yourselves? Did you make any kind of things? Amelia Aaron: Jim, we had what we called mud women that we entertained ourselves by the hour making the mud women out of red clay. We made all sorts of things beside the little people. The mother, the father, the families, we'd have some in sitting positions, some standing. We made the chairs, we made the stoves, all the furniture, the dishes, everything. Jim: Well, tell me how you made a mud woman. Amelia Aaron: Well, we just modeled it out of clay, like kids do now out of mold clay. But of course, there was no such thing as mold clay then, I don't suppose it was. Anyway, we used this natural red clay. And there was a final old colored gentleman that worked for my father. His name was Ellis, I don't remember his last name, that we just adored. And he promised to bring us some blue clay. I never heard of it before or since. Of course, he never did bring it. Now, whether or not there was some other kind of clay that he knew about, I don't know. But anyway, we never did get the blue clay. Jim: And you missed that. That would've been fun to have. Amelia Aaron: It would have been. Jim: And you made all different kinds of doll stuff with it, the tables... Amelia Aaron: Yeah. And after being in the sun for several days it would harden, and then we played with it, you see. That was our pastime. But the fun was in making it more than anything else, to me. But we would really make some rather cute things. Jim: Growing up as a child of a railroad man, did you have any experiences on the railroad? Amelia Aaron: Well, one that I can recall, other than what I have said before, was my first ride on a Pullman going down to Mardi Gras in New Orleans. Riding on the Pullman in that upper birth was quite an experience. Being a little old country gal, I [inaudible 00:03:37] even take my clothes off. And the other highlight was crossing the Mississippi River. I could not visualize a whole train being crossed on a ferry boat, so I got to find out how they ferried the passenger trains, of course, and freight, too. And this wonderful old conductor that we called Paul Edwards had a beard about like you wear Jim. And he looked more like Santa Claus, and he really was a Santa Claus to us. He brought us things out of New Orleans, just candies and all sorts of things, and we idolized him. So he took us up in the pilot's house on the ferry, where the pilot was, and that was quite an experience. Jim: That was a good experience for an old hillbilly girl to have, wasn't it? Amelia Aaron: It certainly was. Jim: What was being on a train like in those days, did you have to bring your own food or was there a kitchen on the train? Amelia Aaron: No, they had diners. They were really much better trains in those days, I think, than they were when they began to sort of level off when the train... I mean, the railroads didn't want passengers, they wanted the freight business. So they let the passenger business just go to nothing. Jim: You mentioned that you were riding the train to go to Mardi Gras. We're going to talk about Mardi Gras in just a few minutes, but we're going to pause right now and have a word from People's Bank and Trust, who are the sponsors of this show. We'll be right back. We're talking this morning with Mrs. Amelia Aaron on the memories show. And we left you, Mrs. Aaron, on the train going to Mardi Gras. How old were you when that happened? Amelia Aaron: Jim, I was a very early teenager, I suppose in my early teens. I don't know exactly when, I could've been just 12 or 13, 14 years old, somewhere along there. Jim: I bet it was a real exciting adventure to come out of Pelican, Louisiana and head down to the Mardi Gras in New Orleans. Amelia Aaron: Now, wait a minute. We left Pelican when I was three weeks old. Jim: Here you've been telling me you were a hillbilly from Pelican and I believed you, and you didn't even grow up there. Amelia Aaron: That's true. I really grew up in St. Landry Parish. All the family did, just about. My father moved from Pelican, as I mentioned, when I was three weeks old. Jim: Okay. You weren't all that much of a hillbilly. Amelia Aaron: Not too much. Jim: What do you remember about that Mardi Gras parade? Amelia Aaron: I remember that Mardi Gras was one of the greatest things in the world. Right about that time being my first Mardi Gras, of course, it was the greatest. I love jazz bands. In fact, just love music anyway. And the parades were just wonderful, the floats, everything was beautiful. But the marching bands, to me, was the greatest. If you had asked me a minute ago, maybe I could have told you the name of the oldest jazz band in New Orleans, still parades. I mean, they still have the organization. Naturally, the older members are gone, but they've kept that up throughout all these years. Not excelsior, but anyway, it's got a name. I saw them later. They made a big parade around the mart building when my sister was still mayor of Winnfield, and we went down to a mayors convention. And I enjoyed that so much with their parasols and strutting around like they did. Jim: I bet that was great fun. Amelia Aaron: Yes, it was. Jim: What was travel like back when you were growing up? What was it like crossing the rivers and that kind of stuff? Amelia Aaron: Well now, that is one of the highlights, really and truly, coming back when we moved from South Louisiana, and that was from Plaquemine. That was farther down than Rosa and [Mara 00:07:39], Louisiana. When we moved in January of 1924 to Natchitoches, we had to cross the [Chafilie 00:07:47] River on a little old ferry that had a motor, just a small... I suppose it held maybe two cars. And it was rainy and bad, cold. It was election day, by the way, but I don't remember what the date was except it was in January. And they had cross ties on the steep river bank, levy, to get cars up, because you'd go up two feet and slip back one. And we had an awful time getting up over the levy, then getting down the other side to the river where the ferry was. And the automobile just looked like it was going to turn over in spite of everything. Everybody got out but my mother. Some man drove the car, and my mother and a big old shepherd dog was all that was left in the car. And we were standing out there in the cold, in the rain, watching that automobile sway from side to side just like it would turn over any minute. And she laughed about it, made the biggest joke about it, act like she wasn't even afraid. I know she was, but that was the type of person she was, she made the best of everything. Jim: We get very spoiled having good roads in Louisiana, and we complain about the condition of the roads. But traveling back then was quite an adventure. Amelia Aaron: Yes, it was. Well, when we got gravel roads, we thought that we had the best roads in the country. To travel along about 30 miles an hour, you felt like you were going 60. With the gravel hitting the fenders and the under part of the car, it seemed like you were just flying. Jim: Pretty noisy. Amelia Aaron: Yes, it was noisy. But people don't appreciate the bridges unless they experience something about like this crossing of the Chafilie River. They zip over them now at whatever speed they allowed and think nothing of it. If they had to cross during a high wind like we did, even crossing in Baton Rouge on the ferry, and it, of course at that time, was a big ferry. They may still use that for just passenger service. But anyway, I crossed one time in Baton Rouge, from the Port Allen side to Baton Rouge, when it was the most harrowing experience. It just seemed like that boat... They had a time landing it, in fact, but there were a bunch of LSU students on there and they were having the time of their lives running from side to side. As it would almost capsize on one side, they'd run to that side, believe it or not. Instead of going to the high side, they'd run to the low side. And there I was sitting in this little waiting room [inaudible 00:10:24] just scared to death and praying. And they were cutting up, having a ball. Jim: They didn't realize how dangerous it was. Amelia Aaron: I don't think they cared. Jim: It wouldn't have mattered very much at that point. Ms. Aaron, we've got time for one last memory. We've been talking about the kind of natural boundaries, the rivers that you had to ferry across. They used to flood, too. Amelia Aaron: Jim, I think it was during 1939, the year of one of the big floods, when Natchitoches was isolated from all directions, we were just an island. And that was the year that Mr. [Scriven 00:11:04] Sweat lost untold numbers of sheep. My first husband, [Hansel 00:11:10] Holmes, would fly every afternoon and come back and tell about the sheep that were stranded on maybe a knoll or maybe the levy or maybe just a little high place somewhere that they just couldn't get to. And I think Herman Taylor lost quite a few cattle. Everybody did. It was really one of worst floods, I suppose, around Natchitoches. Jim: How often were there floods like that? Every year, every three or four years? Amelia Aaron: No, didn't have a big flood every year or every few years. Of course, the water would come up and back of Natchitoches would cover some lane, and that area would always go under. And my pier always went under. Jim: So the road was cut going north. Amelia Aaron: The road was completely covered on Highway 1 going to Shreveport, going north. Jim: What was it like living in Natchitoches as a little island during those flood times? Amelia Aaron: Well, it wasn't very funny, but everybody took it in stride. Jim: Just kind of pulled together. Amelia Aaron: That's true. Jim: Ms. Aaron, it's been good visiting with you this morning. We appreciate the memories you've shared with us, and we're appreciative of People's Bank and Trust for making this time available to us. Amelia Aaron: It certainly is nice of the People's Bank and Trust to have this program, Jim. And I think everybody enjoys it. Jim: I hope, Ms. Aaron, that you'll encourage some of your friends to call us and say they'd like to be on this show. We enjoy visiting with folks, but we sure would like some other people to call in and say, "It's time to get some memories that I have on tape." I know you'll encourage some of your friends to do that. Amelia Aaron: I certainly will. Jim: Thank you, Ms. Aaron.

Amelia Aaron: Her father worked on a railroad from St. Landry Parish. In her childhood, she and her friends would play with red clay, or mud toys. She rode on a Pullman to New Orleans for Mardi Gras and across the Mississippi River. She talks about her times traveling around Louisiana.

October 24, 2022

7. Beatrice Joyce (1894-1988)

Transcript

David: Good morning. We're glad you've joined us for Memories. This is David Dollar and we're visiting today in the home of Miss Beatrice Joyce. And we'll be back to start our program right after this message from our sponsor, People's Bank And Trust Company. Hello once again. In case you're just joining us, this is David Dollar. Miss Joyce, we're glad you have invited us into your home today. Why don't we start things off on Memories this morning by you giving us a little family background about yourself. Beatrice: Okay. I was born up in Arkansas, at little old place, Humphrey, Arkansas it's called. It's still there, but it's still a small place. That's where my mother and my daddy lived. My daddy died when I was about two years older, or two and a half. David: When were you born? Beatrice: I was born in 1895. David: About 1895? Beatrice: 1895. Way back yonder, yeah. David: That is way back yonder. Beatrice: I'd say. And then I grew up there. After I was about two years old, my daddy died with pneumonia. Mama married again later on when I was about eight, nine years old. She married another fella, my step daddy. And he never did make no money, hardly. We had a hard time after she married him. My daddy had a place in stock, horses, and cows. She sold it all to take care of us, she said. Said you had to have the money for us to live off of. But anyway, my stepdad never did have nothing, so we had a hard time with that all. David: What were some of the things that you were doing, especially after your dad died, what did you have to do around the house as a little girl? Beatrice: Nothing. David: Nothing? Beatrice: No. I had a sister older than me, and I wasn't but two years old, two and a half. And my sister was a little older. Mama let her help her scrape potatoes and things. She wouldn't let me do nothing, made me get out of the way. And I didn't think it was right. David: Well, what kind of things did you do to pass the time up in Arkansas? Beatrice: Nothing. Just play with my brothers younger than me. David: Do you remember some of the games in particular that you played? Beatrice: We played just like we were playing or he was my horse and I had a little string around him for the lines. David: Oh yeah? Beatrice: And I drove him like that. And then I just played, like we were making ties. That's what my uncle did and my step daddy did. David: Making ties, right. Beatrice: So we played like we were making ties and one thing or another like that. David: So even the games you played were strongly based in the kind of work that y'all were surrounded with? Beatrice: Yeah. David: Plowing and making ties and things. Well, that's real interesting. Beatrice: My brother grew up to be a real good plowing player, but he died from arthritis. He got so crimped up and crumpled up with arthritis that he couldn't straighten his legs or stand up til he... I don't know how long he laid there like that until he finally died. David: You said he was a violin player? Beatrice: Oh yeah. He could play the violin. David: How did he start doing that? Seemed like that- Beatrice: Well, mama gave him my daddy's violin. He used to play. David: Oh goodness. Beatrice: And it had the strings off of it. And my brother got some strings for it. And then he got some hair out of horses tail and made a bow. David: Made his own bow? Beatrice: And got some rosin off a pine tree and rosined the bow and played it by himself. Liked playing the violin until he is a real good violin and player. David: That sounds like a- Beatrice: Played for dances and such. David: ... a real home taught musician there, stringing his own bow with horse tail and pine rosin. Beatrice: He was a real... David: Well, that really interesting. I tell you. Beatrice: He was the least. I was the middle. My sister was the oldest. And then I was next and my brother was the youngest. There was three of us. David: Did you all have a good time while he was learning to play? While he was practicing and such, did you all dance around or help him sing or something like that? Beatrice: Well, he was a good size. After I married, well, he wasn't very big when I got married. I got married when I was 16. David: Oh yeah? Beatrice: I liked a few days of being 16, as far as that. David: I tell you what, let me interrupt you right here. We need to take a little commercial and we'll come back and talk about some things that you did after you got married. Okay? We're going to take a short break right now. We'll be right back after this message from People's Bank, our sponsor. Hello once again. In case you've just joined us, this is David Dollar. I'm visiting in the home of Beatrice Joyce today, out on Berry Street. And she's brought us up through a childhood of work and play in Arkansas and we're about to jump into some of her married life which started at almost 16. Huh? Tell us some of the things you did after you got married. I know we talked a little about this before. Beatrice: After I got married, well, we came on to Louisiana from Arkansas in a covered wagon. David: Oh goodness. Beatrice: And then my husband sold the horses and he built the houseboat that I lived on. David: He built a houseboat? Beatrice: Yeah. David: Where was this? Beatrice: On Red River. When Red River really was Red River, long ago. I guess it was about in 19... He built the houseboat, I guess, in about 1914, something like that. Because we came down river from Little River. Where Little River came in to Red River. David: Right, right. Beatrice: Passed to Allen Grove. We stopped there. My oldest son was about to die with the congestive chills. And we went up on the hill, my husband did, and found a doctor, Dr. Crow. And he came down there and said if we'd of waited another day, wouldn't have been no use getting a doctor. He couldn't have saved him. He had another chill but it saved him. David: But he saved his life, huh? Beatrice: Yeah. So he's all right. I didn't sleep great until Samuel, his name was, until he got better. Without a nap or that or nothing. My husband tried to make me lay down and rest and he had said it. But I said, "No, sir, I'm not going. I'm going to stay right here." David: Tell me more about this houseboat. I hadn't run across too many folks that ever lived on the houseboat. Beatrice: This is something, this houseboat, it was 12 foot wide and 40 foot long. I had a six foot porch and three rooms. Had a front room and a second bedroom, two bedrooms. David: My goodness. Beatrice: And then a kitchen. And had it all furnished good. Nice. And we fished and had six hook nets or seven hooked up as we were going around, that's with two throats in it. And I knit nets. I knit a net in a day. And my husband hooked them out and tar them, and then we'd put it out. David: You knitted the nets and your husband would tar them? Made everything yourself? Beatrice: Oh yeah. David: And he made the houseboat? Beatrice: Yeah. He made the houseboat. David: And caught fish? Beatrice: The houseboat was built out of Cypress gums, 40 foot long gums and six inches thick. David: My goodness. Beatrice: And it is built with two inch Cypress bottom. David: I tell you this sounds, this is very fascinating for me. Sounds like a very elaborate Huckleberry Finn or something. Beatrice: I been up on top of that boat, courting it with Oakland, while my husband go to sell some fish. They'd come, somebody come ask me, say, "Where's your daddy?" I looked [crosstalk 00:07:30] David: And it was your husband they were looking for, huh?They thought... Well, I'll be. Tell me, the fishing that you did, was it just kind of for yourself? Did you all eat the fish or did you sell quite a bit. Beatrice: We sold them. I sold five dollars worth of fish and sold them 5 cents pound. David: $5 worth of fish? We had a fish box so they couldn't get out of it. And put the fish in that and I'd dit it. I'd put it up on top of the boat. I'd be on the porch and then I'd raise it down and dip up fish. And seven, we had a skiff there and scales and everything, and I sold a fish right there. I've sold a hundred pounds of fish right there at the boat. Five cents a pound for fish and y'all were catching hundred pounds? My gracious. Beatrice: I took 70 pounds of fish out of our net, me. David: What kind of fish were y'all catching then? Beatrice: Well... David: Anything that you could get in the net? Beatrice: Sometimes it'd be Buffalo time and sometimes it'd be gaspergou. David: But the folks- Beatrice: We have got cats, too. David: Folks were buying whatever you had there. Beatrice: Whatever we caught. David: Could always use the fish for sure. Beatrice: [inaudible 00:08:35] buy fish. If we got too many, my husband would take them to town selling and I'd stay there and sell from the house. David: Did you pretty much stay around this area? Is that how you're living in [Nackanish 00:08:47] now? Or did you move on down the river? Beatrice: No, no, we wasn't around here. When my, was it lake in, when my house burnt up. David: Oh goodness. Beatrice: Some kids burned it up, come in there and poured car oil all over it when we were going to a picnic and poor it burned up. David: My goodness. And after that you had to move off the river, I suppose. Beatrice: Then after that, we lived in a house wherever we could. David: Let me ask you, we're just about out of time. And I want to ask you one question. It might kind of put you on the spot, and if it does, you don't have to answer it. If you had it to do over again, would you rather live on the houseboat again or in a regular house? Beatrice: I'd rather live on a houseboat like I did. I was happy out there on that houseboat on that river. When I look at Red River now I think about it as home. David: Well I'll be it so. Beatrice: But the Red River was really a river then. I got out there in a row boat and got drifts out of [inaudible 00:09:47] where they'd all be headed up there, and pick out pieces of plank. And they put them up the porch up and cut them up with a handsaw for wood. David: That's right. Well, I'll be. Beatrice: Cook dinner with it. David: That is really something. Beatrice: And one day, my husband had taken chicken from fish, colored people were buying chicken or something but they didn't have money. He'd take a chicken. So he told me if they brought us chickens, to take it and cook it for dinner. So they brought chicken and I took it. And I thought I'd cook it for dinner. I couldn't kill a chicken. I never had [crosstalk 00:10:22] neck. And I didn't know how to kill it. David: You were used to taking fish, huh? Beatrice: And so I didn't know what to do with that chicken. I was sitting there holding it and wishing somebody would come along and I'd asked them to kill the chicken for me. And nobody came. And that chicken flew out of my hands and flew out in the river and landed. David: Oh my. Beatrice: So I got the 25 20 down and I got out in the skiff and I- David: 25 20, what is that? Beatrice: Well it's just rifle. And I got out there in the boat and I shot that chicken's head off. I went and picked it up and cooked it for dinner. David: My gosh, I tell you what. We going to stop right there. I don't think we could beat that story. That is amazing. Miss Joyce, we want to thank you for having us in your home and for sharing all these stories with us, I'm just, I don't know quite what to say. Beatrice: Well, I was just anxious to tell that houseboat story. David: I can't blame you. If I had that one, I'd have to tell it too. And we sure thank you for giving us a call.

Ms. Joyce was born in Arkansas in 1894. After her father died, her mother sold off most of their possessions. After she got married, they move to Louisiana where they lived in a houseboat, which her husband built. She and her husband were fishermen.

October 31, 2022

8. Belle Hall Allen (1894-1987)

Transcript

Speaker 1: Mrs. Allen, welcome to Memories. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Mrs. Allen: Thank you. Well, Brother [Benuski 00:00:07] I was born in Alabama, 1894 and came to Louisiana in 1900, I was between five and six years old. Speaker 1: How come you came down to Louisiana from Alabama? Mrs. Allen: Well, my daddy was working for Weaver Brothers who had saw mills and he came here to build the mill. He built that Weaver saw mill twice. He put it up twice. It burned down one time and he rebuilt it for him. He did all the carting to work. He built all the houses that was there. And we lived with him until he got us a little place built up there. We lived in the Weaver house with them. Speaker 1: Oh, in the Weaver house? Mrs. Allen: Uh-huh (affirmative) with them until he could get us a little place built. And- Speaker 1: Where did you build that little place? Mrs. Allen: He built it right up there close to Weaver, right up close to the mill where he worked. Speaker 1: Okay. What city are we talking about? Mrs. Allen: Flora [crosstalk 00:01:06] Flora, Louisiana. Yes. Speaker 1: Okay. Mrs. Allen: Uh-huh (affirmative). And the Standard Oil Company is up there now right close. He worked, he did some little work there too, but not much. Because he stayed with Weaver Brothers. Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about your family. How many kids were in the family? Mrs. Allen: Well, my mother and daddy had 11 and there was 10 girls and one little old boy. We had a lot of hard work to do, Brother Benuski. Speaker 1: Well what, yeah, they, having so many girls and only one boy, what did that mean in terms of chores and things like that [crosstalk 00:01:39]? Mrs. Allen: Well, it really meant a lot because I remember a lot of getting up and trying to make fires. We didn't have fires then like we have now, with gas, we used wood and sometimes, I've got up on many a morning to built fires for my mother after my daddy's gone to work, have to renew things and I blowed and blowed and blowed, trying to blow them that little sparks to build up a little flame to start my fire until I nearly blow my head off, I'd go blind [crosstalk 00:02:11] nobody don't know what it was, but I still call it the good old days because we had good times then. Speaker 1: What were some of the good times? Mrs. Allen: Oh Lord, all of it was good, seems to me. There's sitting around chewing cane, eating peanuts and around the big fireplace, throwing it all in the fire. I can remember that, and roasting our dully potatoes in the ashes, Brother Benuski, you don't know. That was a good time. We had the best time popping corn and all of us, and a big gang of girls and course, you know how the girls and boys gang up, they had a place like that where the family and I had wonderful parents, they just loved company. And I've got a lot to be thankful for. Nobody don't know the Lord's been good to me. Speaker 1: Well, tell me this. So you're talking about boys and girls. Now, what was boys and girls in courting time like then? Well, just tell me about what it was like. Mrs. Allen: Well, so much different to what it is now. When I was courting, I courted kindly young too. I was between 14 and 15, I think I thought I was as grown as I am now. Of course I wasn't, but we always had to sit in a room and a light. We never was allowed to sit and we didn't sit right by our boyfriend. He maybe, he was halfway across the room somewhere. That's the way they courted then. Speaker 1: Well, can you remember [crosstalk 00:03:37] can you remember your first date? Mrs. Allen: Oh yeah. I can tell you who he was. Speaker 1: What exactly happened? How'd- Mrs. Allen: Well he was, he turned out to be a Baptist preacher and he was going with a Mormon. I know nobody knows. I tell you who he was. It was Oliver Robert, the late Oliver, the Baptist preacher. A wonderful preacher too. And a good singer. Speaker 1: Well, what happened on the first date? Mrs. Allen: Well. Speaker 1: How did he ask you? What did he do? Mrs. Allen: Oh, yes. He just asked me about date, date that night. Speaker 1: Were you in school or? Mrs. Allen: Well, we was at a party and he asked me about, we was going somewhere, I believe it was to the Parker family. Right close to us. And I told him, yes, he could go with me. It'd be all right. There wouldn't be nobody to object. So he went with me and I told him, I says, this is funny. A Baptist and a Mormon. I thought it was cute, you know a little bit. He laughed about it too, said it don't make no difference, y'all are all working for the same place anyway. Well, anyhow, he was a fine musician. He played that violin, picked the guitar. He was a great boy. And he turned out to be a fine preacher. You've heard of him. I'm sure. He lived between you and Cold Water. Speaker 1: Well then what happened? Were you all alone on that first date or what happened? You said something [crosstalk 00:04:58] something interesting. Mrs. Allen: No, I just wouldn't mention just why my parents didn't like for me to date him, it wasn't because they changed and different religions but drink. Speaker 1: Oh. Mrs. Allen: And they didn't like it. Speaker 1: Well, what I did, on that date, you said your mother went along with you. Mrs. Allen: Oh, my mother did. Yeah. She goes along and carries a light. Always had a lantern that she carried along and my daddy didn't go. When he went, the family went. He'd hitch up the horses and to the surrey, we had a big old surrey and we'd all get in that and we'd all go. My daddy was a lively man. Everybody liked the old fella and he was a wonderful parent. I tell you, both of them were. Speaker 1: So when you went on a date, your first date, your mama went along with the light. Mrs. Allen: Mama. Yeah, sure did. Speaker 1: Well, I guess that's a little different. Mrs. Allen: And I had two other sisters. It's a little different to what it is now. They blow the horn outside and nobody knows who the girl went with, but mine didn't do that. Not even mine. I got one, now she don't do that, [Devon 00:06:01] didn't do that either. Speaker 1: But they had to come in and the parents had to know the young man? Mrs. Allen: Yes, sir, that's right. Don't you think that's right? They should know him. Speaker 1: Yeah. Mrs. Allen: I think that's right. Speaker 1: Well, this is Dan [Benuska 00:06:13] and we are talking to Ms. Belle Hall Allen on Memories and we'll be right back after this message from our sponsor at People's Bank. Again, this is Dan Benuska and we are talking to Ms. Belle Hall Allen on Memories. Well, we just finished talking about courting. Is there more to say about courting? Mrs. Allen: Oh, I don't know anymore. I went with several boys. It was never nothing serious till I went with the man that I married, John Allen. And- Speaker 1: Can you remember when he asked you to marry him? Mrs. Allen: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Speaker 1: Did you know right then that this was the man? Mrs. Allen: No. Uh-uh (negative). I said, well, I have to think about that. I'm quite young yet. I waited quite a while [crosstalk 00:06:57] before I decided. Speaker 1: What year was this? What year was that, that he? Mrs. Allen: I think it was about 1911. Speaker 1: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mrs. Allen: Something like that. I was young and he was, oh, let's see, I think he was 14 years older than me, but he didn't seem to be. He was younger when he died, looking, than I was, whole lot. Speaker 1: Well, then when were you married? Mrs. Allen: I'd married about a year later in about 1912. Speaker 1: What were those early days of marriage like? Mrs. Allen: Oh, just wonderful. He worked for, John worked down at, well it's below [Montrose 00:07:37]. I believe they called it, a little place called [Gavel 00:07:40]. He was woods foreman down there for that lumber company. I forget the name of the lumber company, but he was woods foreman down there for a number of years. Speaker 1: Well, did you have all the latest appliances in your house [crosstalk 00:07:51]? Mrs. Allen: No, we didn't have nothing. We just had a little stove about that big and oh my goodness. It'd take a week to tell all that, Brother Benuski. He just, and he had as much anybody else and more than most of them, but it was just, it wasn't like it is now. I'll tell you, they all got to have the house set up before they go in it now. Speaker 1: Well, tell me this. When you think back to those days, what time in the morning did you get up and cook for breakfast and what would a breakfast be like that you cooked for him? Mrs. Allen: Well, the breakfast I fixed then was a little like I do now though. It was about the same. He liked his bacon and eggs. And the first thing was his coffee. Now John drank coffee. I didn't, I didn't know what a coffee pot was hardly when I went to make coffee for him because I didn't drink coffee. Wasn't allowed to drink [crosstalk 00:08:41]. Speaker 1: What time did you have to get up in the- Mrs. Allen: I got up every morning, four o'clock. He always heated this stove and started the coffee, his coffee dripping, and I got up and started the bacon and eggs and whatever he needed to serve, preserves, whatever we was going to have. And I always had to bake biscuit. We didn't know, I didn't know they made light bread. Young folks think it's awful. But I'd rather have a biscuit any time, wouldn't you? Speaker 1: Right. We're running out time quickly. Mrs. Allen: I know. Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask you one thing. Mrs. Allen: Uh-huh (affirmative), okay. Speaker 1: What kind of advice did your mommy and dad give to you when you were growing up? Mrs. Allen: Well, it was mighty good advice I think now. Of course we thought then it was a little hard on us, but they gave us advice to always be honest and true and to live a good clean life. And to remember, they've always wanted us to remember what they taught us and to try to stay with it. And I have, Brother Benuski, I really have. Speaker 1: You told me at each night, the family would get together. Mrs. Allen: Yes, they did. My daddy'd gather all the family, no matter who our date was, if they wanted to sit with us in there, okay. But he had us all around that fireplace and he's read a chapter in the Bible and he had prayer with us before we went to bed at night. That was just as regular as the night come. And on Sundays, I can tell you another thing, on every first Sunday morning, he didn't let mama cook breakfast, only for the babies. Of course, there's always a baby or two there, and so many young ones. But the rest of us that was big enough to wait until two o'clock or something like that afternoon, why, then we'd get to eat and we enjoyed our meal then. We didn't know all about it. We wasn't trying to be as good as we should have been at the time. We didn't know how, but I can understand it now. He was good. And my parents both were very good people. Speaker 1: Well, let's end at that. Mrs. Allen: And I appreciated them, Brother Benuski, I tell you. Speaker 1: Let's end at that note. Mrs. Allen, it's been a pleasure to have you on Memories and I look forward to having you back again. Mrs. Allen: I've just enjoyed this a lot. Speaker 1: Thank you.

Born in Alabama in 1894, came to Louisiana in 1900. Her father came to Louisiana to build mills and do carpentry. Her father then sent for them to come live with them with the Weaver family, whose family owned Weaver Mills. Talks about her marriage to her husband and family life.

November 7, 2022

9. Benny Davis, Sr. (1903-1979)

Transcript

Jim Cally: Mr. Davis, welcome to this show. We're glad you're here. We were talking a little bit before about when you were four years old and on the way to Oklahoma. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Yes. Jim Cally: How'd you get there? Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Well, by train. We'd take the train from Natchez, and then we went on in to Oklahoma. Of course, we had to change trains in Greenville, Greenville, Texas. Then the only thing that excited me most about it was when I went to restaurant. Jim Cally: Uh-oh. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Down at the ground, passing so fast. Jim Cally: That was quite a thing to see as a little boy. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: That's right. Kind of exciting seeing this see this under there. He said, "Don't be afraid. You're not going to fall in there." So finally I decided that I would go ahead and use the bathroom. So then when we came out of there, after we washed hands and everything, came up out of there. Then we had our seat. Butcher boy by came by, these little lantern candy. He had sandwiches, different things in there, but mostly we was interested in candy. So my dad brought me and little girl, my sister, bag of candy, one of these lanterns of candy. So after we got this candy, we were so happy. We hated to open it, but after all we did open the candy. Went to eating. Well, find out that this sandwich boy came back to another man sitting across from us. He said... Asked if he wants some more candy. He told them yes, so he bought us a bag of candy. Jim Cally: Uh-oh, that was good. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Oh, we felt so great then just had all the candy we needed, and was crazy about those lanterns, they were so beautiful. They looked like these little lanterns that you played the train with, something like that. Little bit of that, I hadn't seen them since then. Jim Cally: They probably don't make them that way anymore. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: I don't imagine they do. But anyway, I enjoyed that trip. All right, after we got to Oklahoma, arrived in Oklahoma, then we got off the train and got in one of these transfer surreys. We used to call them surrey. But they made it like these coaches be on TV. Made something like that. Cold then, but they were operated by horse. The horse pull them. The driver sit up on the outside and drive, and we were closed up inside. So they take us to our destination wherever we wanted to go, wherever we were going. And they unload us. I don't know how much they charging or anything like that, but anyway they unload us. And then my daddy rented a double apartment, something like an apartment double house, two divisions. So my mother, she stock on side with grocery. She ran a grocery out there, and he would be sitting out there. They were in the surrey line during that time. Jim Cally: You were telling me that in Oklahoma, they had pretty bad storms from time to time. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Oh, they had storms out there. Just we like have during the ground. It was every other night, just looked like that from what I remember now. Every time we looked around I said, "Let's go in the storm house. Go underground because it's a storm. Going to be a storm tonight." So the white folks out there that live close to us, they had storm houses, most of them. I guess some colored, they had them too, but it was really most of them whites. And they would invite us in to go down with them at night, and so we did. I slept in storm houses many nights out there. And cold, you talk about cold, that's a cold country. It was then out in the west, out west way. So after that, my mama talked to my dad and she said, "If you invest more money in this business, you would do better working in here with me than you do out in this cold." But he couldn't see it. She never could show him that, so finally they stayed on out there, until everybody taken sick about two years later. Then some of his brothers died, bunch of the children, brothers' children died, nieces, nephews, they died. And he got... decide to come on back. Jim Cally: Time to come back to Louisiana. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: To Louisiana. Jim Cally: So that ended the Oklahoma trip. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: The Oklahoma trip. Jim Cally: Time to move back. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: After about two years. Jim Cally: Mr. Davis, we need to give a word from our sponsors, but we'll be back to visit with Mr. Benny Davis Sr. after this message from People's Bank and Trust. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: That's all right. Jim Cally: This is Jim [Cally 00:05:15], and we're talking with Mr. Benny Davis Sr. on memories. Mr. Davis, after you all got back from Oklahoma and moved back in, did you settle around Natchez? Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: No, sir. Jim Cally: Where was that you said you settled? Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: My dad moved around in Grant Parish. He had a brother around there, out at a brickyard. So he wrote him a letter and asked him if he came back, would he give him a job. He told him yes. So then he moved back to Colfax then, which is Grant Parish. So he moved on back down there, and he went to work with his brother down at the brickyard. So he worked there with him for about eight months, and then... Excuse me. He decided that he would go to sawmill. Grant had three sawmills back that time. The big pine sawmill and the Iatt sawmill, and a hardwood, big hardwood sawmill. So he went to the Iatt sawmill, which is across the lake. They would spend more money then for his... what he could do at the mill. So he went on over there and went to work. He worked there for I reckon about a year and a half or more. Then he worked [inaudible 00:06:37] factory. Jim Cally: I see. Did you get away from the cold weather by coming down to Louisiana? Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Oh, we got away from that. It didn't seem... never seemed cold to me anymore after that. Jim Cally: Anymore after that [crosstalk 00:06:48]- Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Until I was 65 years old before I felt like it ever got cold. That was after that second surgery. Jim Cally: About 1930 you said you had something of a cold snap here in Louisiana. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Well, they had a cold snap in 1930. Why I remembered so well, I had a boy born that year, and I had to go get a doctor, which I didn't own a car at that time. My uncle that lived close to me, he owned a car, but we couldn't get it to crank, it was so cold. So then I had to walk and get the doctor. He was across the river from me, which was about two miles altogether. So I walked, and he couldn't get his car to crank. Jim Cally: Now which doctor was that? Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Dr. Katy, and he came walking. He told me, he said, "Ben," he said, "It's coldest morning. You never seen it this cold before. I know you cold." I said, "I am cold." He said, "This is the coldest it's been since before you was born." He managed a year, but I forgot. But anyway, that's the only time in my life I ever been cold in Louisiana. Jim Cally: And you remember that because you had to go get the doctor for the birth of a child. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: That's right. Finally, after he came in, well I had left before I could... real hot. The house was pretty long too. We had a big door. Big stove where I keep warm. I stayed real warm. See back in those days, you see children was born at home. They wasn't born in the hospital back then, do not. Of course our last, he was born in the hospital. But most of my first kids all born at home, with the midwives, which is they used to call it. Anyway, this boy, I had the worst time with him that I had with any of them in that cold weather, and the doctor did too. Because when he got home, he was too cold to even work on the wire, not right then. Jim Cally: You had to get that car going again. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: That's right, and then he had to warm up a little bit before. Of course, he told not to get the car. He said, "You're too cold." He said, "Because I'm cold, and I know you're colder than I am." He said the worst thing in the world that you can do when you're cold is to try to warm up. Just go out yourself. So I did that. I just stayed back from the car. Then there came the baby. The thing was over then. I walked back with him to take his grip. Had to take the grip back there. I was so glad he came. I didn't know what to do. We had a midwife there, but she still didn't know. She said she had to have a doctor. That boy was pretty good size boy, and they could not deliver. Jim Cally: A lot of babies were delivered by midwives back in those days. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Oh most of them back in those days were poor people. Of course the people that was able out here could send their wives to hospitals, but the poor people couldn't do it. Had to use midwives. Jim Cally: So midwife always showed up about the time the baby was due. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: That's right, and lots of times I've had them come and stay three or four days because with my first kids because I didn't know nothing about that. I hadn't read too much about it, and I didn't know how long it'd be when these pains start. I would just afraid, and I would get the midwife to come and check us. Say well, "It'll be maybe two or three days." I said, "Well, I'd rather you stay then two, three days. I'm willing to pay you." Which I didn't have any money, but I'd scrap some money to pay, couple of two or three dollars. And I always managed to pay that, you know. Jim Cally: It was worth having one around. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Why sure. It'd console me. Jim Cally: Sure. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: I had one doctor, Dr. Pearson, this boy in California. I tell you about Benny Junior. He waited on the wife of him at home. And he told, he showed me on a watch how to check these pains, and I used to know that I've got... He showed me on his watch because when he came down that day it was about 10:30 in the morning. So he asked me how was my wife doing when he got there. I said, "Well, she's having pain, but not too often." So he went in. He stayed until she had two pains, and he said, "Ben, you got a [boldgys 00:11:34]?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Well, I'm going fishing a while." I said, "Man, you talking about going fishing while I'm here fixing to have a baby." He said, "I'm going fishing." He said, "You're not due until 1:00." Jim Cally: He knew. He showed you how to count the pains. And I guess you could have delivered babies after that. Not quite. Mr. Benny Davis Sr.: Well, this is what he did. I asked him, "How you know?" I said, "How you know it's going to work out?" Then he pulled out his watch, and he made me watch where the second hand was whenever there's pain. And then see how many minutes it was before another. Then he told me how it had to come down from being minutes to seconds. And when it get into seconds, it wouldn't be long until something going to happen. Jim Cally: You might have been qualified to deliver babies. We're glad to visit. We're glad to visit with you, Mr. Davis. We appreciate you sharing your memories with us.

He remembers how he took the train to visit Oklahoma, at 4 years old. He remembers how his family started a business.

November 14, 2022

10. Bud Williams

Transcript

David Dollar: Good morning, this is David Dollar, we're glad you've joined us for Memories. Today, we're visiting in the home of Mr. Bud Williams, and we're going to be right back to start our show right after this message from our sponsor Peoples Bank and Trust Company. Hello, in case you're just joining us, this is David Dollar, we're visiting in the home of Mr. Bud Williams today. Mr. Williams, how you doing? Bud Williams: I'm doing fine. David Dollar: That's good. Why don't we start things off this morning by you telling us a little bit about yourself? About when you were born? Where you were born? And things like that. Okay. Bud Williams: I was born on Little River. David Dollar: You were born on Little River. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:00:41]. David Dollar: Okay. And... Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:00:44] I can't remember what year it was. David Dollar: But you are how old right now? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:00:48] 102. David Dollar: You're 102 years old. Bud Williams: 102 years old. David Dollar: That means you were born in just about 1874, by my calculations. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:00:59]. David Dollar: That makes you, I think, about the oldest person we've interviewed on Memories. Bud Williams: Sure enough. David Dollar: What do you think about that? Bud Williams: I don't know. I think [inaudible 00:01:07] you a long time, if I can remember. David Dollar: I guess you can. You've been around a long time, huh? Bud Williams: Been around a long time. David Dollar: So you were born on Little River. Have you spent most of your time right around here in Natchitoches? Right around this area. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:01:21]. David Dollar: Right around here, I see. What were your folks doing when you were born? Bud Williams: Farming. David Dollar: Farming. Down Little River. I guess that was some of the best farm land in this area around here. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:01:37] nothing but farm. David Dollar: Yeah. What about brothers and sisters? Bud Williams: Didn't do... David Dollar: Didn't do nothing but farm. How many did you have? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:01:47] you had to do. David Dollar: Didn't have time for the... Bud Williams: You got to go and do something that most people wouldn't. David Dollar: That's right. That's... Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:02:34]. David Dollar: That's right. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:02:34]. David Dollar: Right. So your folks had a hard time keeping that body straight, huh? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:02:47]. David Dollar: Not working all the time. Bud Williams: We was raised for work. David Dollar: Raised for work, I guess so. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:02:55]. David Dollar: Yes, sir. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:02:56]. David Dollar: In the field. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:03:06] night and day. David Dollar: Goodness gracious. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:03:08]. David Dollar: Oh, you were loading the sack of seed on the other guy's backs, huh? Bud Williams: Yeah. Sack of seed [inaudible 00:03:47]. David Dollar: Cotton seed, I guess. Bud Williams: Cotton seed. Cotton seed [inaudible 00:03:54]. David Dollar: About how many of those sacks would you have to load every day? Or night? Or whenever? Bud Williams: One night, I load 400 sack of seeds [inaudible 00:04:00]. David Dollar: 400 sacks. And you just worked until they finished with you, huh? Bud Williams: Yeah. [inaudible 00:04:06]. David Dollar: Until all of them were done. My goodness. I don't... Bud Williams: I was raised in a tough time. David Dollar: I don't have to ask you this, but I bet you were tired when you finished. Bud Williams: Yeah. [inaudible 00:04:16]. David Dollar: My goodness. But I bet you didn't get time to rest either. Bud Williams: No. David Dollar: Next day brought you some more work. Bud Williams: Yeah. [inaudible 00:04:22]. David Dollar: And then you went back to work, huh? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:04:30] field plowing cotton. David Dollar: My goodness. Did you ever get a chance to rest? Bud Williams: No, I didn't get [inaudible 00:04:41]. David Dollar: Huh? Always work, huh? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:04:47]. David Dollar: My goodness. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:04:51]. David Dollar: I see. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:05:13]. David Dollar: So then you just kept on doing different work after that. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:05:18]. David Dollar: Even [inaudible 00:05:18] found out you were too sick. Bud Williams: Yeah. David Dollar: My goodness. I guess you got to see, if you were born in about 1874, what do you remember about your first tractor? What's the different ways of doing the cotton that you remember? I guess you were doing it with a mule and a plow before then, huh? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:05:35]. David Dollar: You did that? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:05:46]. David Dollar: Did it make work easier? Or just meant you got to do more work? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:05:53]. No, I do more work but [inaudible 00:05:59]. David Dollar: Plowing is plowing, whether you're doing it with a mule or a tractor, huh? Bud Williams: Plowing is plowing. David Dollar: I hear you. I hear you. Tell you what, let me interrupt you right here, we need to take a short commercial break. We'll be right back with Mr. Bud Williams, who is 102 years old, right after this message from Peoples Bank and Trust Company, our sponsor. Hello, once again, in case you've just joined us, this is David Dollar. We're visiting this morning, on Memories, in the home of Mr. Bud Williams. Mr. Williams has told us about a life from the time he was a real young boy. Born in 1874, doing work all the time, either for your daddy or for the different folks you worked for up and down Cane River. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:06:46]. David Dollar: You said your dad was... Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:06:51]. David Dollar: But work is work, huh? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:07:00] I want you to go away. David Dollar: How old were you when you left home? You stopped doing work for your parents and went to work for other folks. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:07:09]. David Dollar: But you stayed pretty much around the same place, huh? Bud Williams: Same way. David Dollar: Doing a lot of the same kind of work? Plowing in cotton seed and things like that. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:07:23]. David Dollar: All right. Let me ask you this, I guess you all worked all the time. What about Sundays? What did Sundays bring you? Bud Williams: Sundays [inaudible 00:07:32] rest day. David Dollar: What did you do on Sundays? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:07:38]. David Dollar: Going down to the church? Or things like that? Bud Williams: Yeah. Going to church. [inaudible 00:07:53]. David Dollar: Like a picnic? Or something like that? Bud Williams: Yeah. David Dollar: Cooking fish and things. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:07:59]. David Dollar: You remember some parties you had like that? Bud Williams: Yeah. David Dollar: Had some good times, I guess. Bud Williams: Oh, good times. David Dollar: Had to kick up your heels on Sunday. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:08:10] have a good time. David Dollar: Catch those fish right out of Cane River, huh? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:08:20]. David Dollar: Were you a good cook? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:08:27]. David Dollar: Fry those fish, huh? Eat some hush puppies maybe. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:08:32]. David Dollar: Okay. So if you didn't get around to partying on Sunday, Monday came too quick, the next day, huh? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:08:47]... David Dollar: I guess not [inaudible 00:08:53]. Bud Williams: ... [inaudible 00:08:53] five o'clock, then I came in. David Dollar: Come on in [inaudible 00:09:06]. Mr. Williams, didn't you say something, when we were talking earlier, about running a gin? Some of the other work you did. Why don't you tell us about that a little bit? Where did you run the gin? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:09:25]. David Dollar: You did all that? Like you were in charge of the thing? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:09:38]. David Dollar: And you... Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:09:42]. David Dollar: 20 or more years? Bud Williams: Yeah. David Dollar: Mine, you were head of the whole thing. Goodness gracious. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:09:47]. David Dollar: I bet. Yeah. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:09:50]. David Dollar: Yeah. And steam just pouring out of there, I bet. Bud Williams: Yeah. Steam just pouring out. David Dollar: And you being in charge, you had to do not only your work, but everybody else's work, huh? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:10:04]. David Dollar: I guess not, work all the time. Bud Williams: All the time. [inaudible 00:10:12]. David Dollar: Yeah. But it sounds like you just about worked most of the time you've been around these 102 years, huh? A lot of work. Bud Williams: Well, it's been 102 years, I'm happy. David Dollar: Been working. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:10:25]. David Dollar: Well, Mr. Williams, we just about out of time, we like to try to end our programs with what we call a closing memory. Bud Williams: All right. Closing memory. David Dollar: We talked about a little story you had on your grandmother, I think. Why don't you share that with us? Bud Williams: Yes. My grandmother [inaudible 00:10:39] pipe. David Dollar: A pipe. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:10:44] coal of fire and put on top that. David Dollar: Right. Bud Williams: Light it. David Dollar: Get tobacco lit. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:10:50]. David Dollar: The coal of fire fell out of her pipe and into her lap. Bud Williams: And the lap [inaudible 00:11:04]. David Dollar: The wind caught the little spark in her dress and... Bud Williams: Yeah. And [inaudible 00:11:19]. David Dollar: Goodness gracious. How'd she get out of that predicament? Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:11:22]. David Dollar: Grabbed a quilt and threw it over. Bud Williams: Threw it over. [inaudible 00:11:41]. David Dollar: And probably save her life like that. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:11:54] she lived many years. David Dollar: Yeah. Oh, I tell you, that is... Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:11:57]. David Dollar: It must have been a pretty startling memory for a young boy to see something like that. Bud Williams: Yeah. [inaudible 00:12:30]. David Dollar: I bet it scared you, didn't it? Bud Williams: Oh, yes. [inaudible 00:12:30]. David Dollar: Just caught right up. I'll be... Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:12:33]. David Dollar: Yeah. Got that quick, put it out. Bud Williams: [inaudible 00:12:42]. David Dollar: Well, that is really something. Mr. Williams, we want really thank you for having us in your house today. Bud Williams: Thank you. David Dollar: And sharing these memories with us.

Born in 1874 and lived all his life in Natchitoches. His parents were farmers and he and siblings worked on a farm with them. At that time, they could not attend school.

November 21, 2022

11. C.E. Dugdale

Transcript

David: Good morning Dr. Dugdale, good to have you here with us. Why don't you start us off today by telling us a little bit about yourself, your background. C.E. Dugdale: Thank you very much, David. Well, I'm a native of Louisiana. I was born and reared in a little village of Sibley, north of Choudrant, Louisiana and I don't know whether people know where Choudrant is. And I was born in 1897 on a farm near Camp Alabama. My father was English from sunny Devon. He came to this place over there. He had a brother and two uncles in this country and he bought some land there in the, on a hill farm. He paid $2 and 50 cents an acre for it. About 10 years ago, a sister of mine sold some of that land for $250 an acre. And I thought she didn't get enough at that time. We were on a small farm ,north Louisiana farm, hill farm, and the going was a little rough in those days. My memories of course are school and church primarily. They were the centers of our life. And I started a school when I was five years old. At the end of that year, the teacher very unadvisedly promoted me to the third grade. The next year, there was a new teacher there who demoted me to the second grade, very much to my disappointment. I attended this rural school, it was a two room school until the high school was established in Choudrant. And I was in the second graduating class of the Choudrant High School, 1916. And at that time, since the school here, the state normal [inaudible 00:02:03] was considered the teacher training institution in the state. I enrolled here because I intended to become a teacher. I remember I had a cousin, Velma O'Neal who was here at the same time. And on Friday evening, we had a picture show in the auditorium on the second floor of Caldwell hall. Well, Velma and I went together to this picture show and I sat with Velma. There was some 50, a hundred girls. I mean, men and the rest were girls. And I was there talking with Velma and somebody tapped on the shoulder. It was the Dean of Women informing me that men and women did not sit together at the picture shows at the normal school. And I had to get up and move down with the 20 or 30 men who were there at this show. Oh, this was in 1916 that I came to the state normal. And after I graduated, of course, it became a college very shortly thereafter. I was in about the second graduating class with a degree here from this school. And then I became a high school principal and was served in that capacity for several years. And every time, every summer during that period, I was given a position at the normal college. Mr. Royal was a good friend of mine, a very dear friend whom I remember with a great deal of pleasure and joy. He gave me a position every summer and I taught here and it was during the summer of 1926 I was teaching here that I became ill and had surgery. And of course there's a rather sad story. After that surgery, I was ill for a number of years and I was in the veteran's hospital. And of course I, that means that I had spent some time in the service during World War One. I would never have been drafted because I was a little too young to be drafted at that time, but I did volunteer and got in just for a little while. And the federal government of course had veterans hospitals for people in my situation. And it was my misfortune to be at a veterans hospital for some time. But I am very thankful that there was initiatives of that kind to take care of such people. David: That's true. C.E. Dugdale: Well after I got out of the hospital, was discharged in 1930, I decided that graduate work was in store for me. It was the best course I could follow. And I went to the University of Texas and registered at the Stephen F. Austin Hotel. And about one o'clock that night, I was seriously ill, called for a doctor. And the result was that I never got to register. I had to come home and lost a whole semester and went back at midyear. Well, I intended to register in Mathematics to do graduate work in Mathematics. It happens that at midyear, there was not a single graduate course available for me. And there I was, had already lost a semester and now could not get graduate Mathematics that I needed for the second semester and you could imagine how disappointed I was. And there I was talking about my disappointments, not being able to get the Mathematics and a Dean who was listening nearby said, by the way, I noticed that you were qualified in English. What about studying English? And I said, "am I"? I had no idea I was. And he talked me into that. And he said, you can get back into Mathematics if you don't find this interesting. But I got some of the best men that I've ever met in my life as teachers, Dr. Calloway, Dr. Law, Dr. Griffith. And I continued in English until I got my Master's. And then I was asked whether I would continue for my Doctorate. And I said, yes. And I was given a position as teacher there while I got my Doctorate and incidentally, I took Mathematics as a minor. And one of the finest men in Mathematics with international reputation, Professor Van Den Bergh was talking to me. I'd had courses with him ever since I had been there, and he asked me whether I would continue for my Doctorate. And I told him yes. And he volunteered to give me a position in Mathematics if I wished to continue my doctorate. Well, I had just accepted one in English. And though mathematics was my first love, I have never regretted getting into English and I have thoroughly enjoyed teaching it ever since I talked there for 10 years while I was getting my Doctorate. And incidentally, when my father, when I graduated, got my doctorate, he came down to Austin and my mother and father and a friend of his was talking with him, Mr. Lindsay and father said "well, I'm going to Austin, Texas. My son is graduating". Mr. Lindsay said, "my heaven is that boy still going to school"? So I could understand that I went to school much of the time until I was about 40 years old, you see. David: How did you come about coming back to [inaudible 00:07:52] C.E. Dugdale: I came to Southwestern in Lafayette and taught there for a year and the Principle here, I mean, the President here at the college, a good friend of mine, Joe Farah came down and asked our President whether he would release me to take the headship of the department of languages up here. I didn't see Joe Farah on his visit down, I didn't know he had come, but our President down there called me in shortly after and assured me that he would release me if I cared to go. And after all the transactions I finally got here, mainly because I know the people here, I had many friends in this area and I knew that I would enjoy living in [inaudible 00:08:35] and I certainly have enjoyed it. David: What are some of the things that you did, say, you said you were growing up around Sibley. I'm a little bit familiar with that area around camp Alabama it means a lot, especially, I guess, us Presbyterians. C.E. Dugdale: Yes. David: But what are some of the things you did around there growing up? Did you, were you able to fish or hunt or- C.E. Dugdale: oh yes. David: Were you much taken up with farm duties? C.E. Dugdale: Well, I certainly did that. It was a very busy time. We were all very busy, but my mother and father enjoyed fishing, though he was an Englishman. My mother was reared and her father enjoyed fishing. I used to go fishing with my granddad a great deal. Of course it was on a local stream and we fished with cane poles and caught Catfish and Brim mainly, sometimes Bass, but principally Brim and Catfish. And we thoroughly enjoyed those fish fries that we would have, community would join very frequently in fish fries. And we always were confident enough to be dependent. We depend upon catching the fish. And as I recall, we always did. David: Still doing that to an extent [crosstalk 00:09:49] C.E. Dugdale: Oh, yes I am. But we have a camp out on Celine. It really belongs to my sister and brother-in-law, but we use it 10 times more than they do and we thoroughly enjoy it. David: Well Dr. Doug, we really want to thank you for joining us on memories today. C.E. Dugdale: It's a very great pleasure to meet you, David.

Dr. C.E. Dugdale: Born in 1897 on a farm. His father was English and brought some land. He primarily remembers school and church as the main focus of his life. He intended to become a teacher, worked at Normal College every summer. Earned his doctorate in English.

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Memories Podcast

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1. Ada Mallard Rachal (1898-1991)

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2. Alonzo Plummer (1893 - 1980)

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3. Alonzo Plummer (1893 - 1980) Part II

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4. Alvin Mathisen (1895-1992)

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5. Amelia Aaron (1902-2000)

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6. Amelia Aaron (1902-2000)Part II

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7. Beatrice Joyce (1894-1988)

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8. Belle Hall Allen (1894-1987)

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9. Benny Davis, Sr. (1903-1979)

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10. Bud Williams

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11. C.E. Dugdale

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