Memories (U.S. National Park Service)

Episodes

May 2, 2024

29. Occie Stafford

Transcript

David Dollar (00:01): Hello, once again, this is David Dollar. We're visiting in the home of Mr. and Ms. Dave Stafford. Occie Stafford we're going to talk to today, Ms. Stafford. And you might hear some background noises on this tape and think that things are wrong at the radio station, but it's not because we're out on a nice screened-in porch and it's fixing to rain. The storm clouds are coming in. So whatever you hear is what we’re hearing right now. And we're not going to make any bones about that because I'm loving it. Ms. Stafford, let's start things off this morning by you telling us a little about your family. Where you were born and things. Mrs. Occie Stafford (00:39): Well, I was born and raised about three miles from here and I was born in 1902, September 1902. And I had three sisters, one brother and my mother was sick lots when my brother [inaudible 00:00:54]. David Dollar (00:55): Where were you born? Excuse me, let me interrupt you. Where were you born? Mrs. Occie Stafford (00:59): Here in Marthaville. [crosstalk 00:00:59]. David Dollar (00:59): I missed that. Mrs. Occie Stafford (01:05): And so I learned to sew when I was very small to make clothes for my two baby sisters. I stood in a rawhide bottom chair and ironed with a big old, Tommy raw iron on the dining table because mom and poppa thought I'd drop the iron on my feet, made me break my foot or ankle. David Dollar (01:25): I bet you would too. I've seen some of those big old things. Mrs. Occie Stafford (01:26): And he cut a block and put in front of the wood stove for me to get up on, to tend to my vittles and cooking and frying on top of the stove. David Dollar (01:35): How old were you when you were doing these kinds of things? Mrs. Occie Stafford (01:40): Well I was, I guess I was about seven or eight years old. I can remember washing out baby clothes the day I was six years old. David Dollar (01:48): My goodness. You just kind of had all kind of chores on your hands. Didn't you? At a very early age. Mrs. Occie Stafford (01:53): I've always enjoyed working. My mother and daddy never did tell me to have to do a thing. They never laid the weight of their hands on me. I rolled down that bed and made a fire when I was little, too little to put on a back stick on the fireplace. My daddy put on one at night and I always got up and cooked breakfast. I carried my daddy coffee to the bed and- David Dollar (02:15): Things had to be done and you were the one that did it, uh? Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:17): I was oldest and I always take the lead and the help I could see the things needed to be done and should be done. David Dollar (02:25): That's right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:26): And I think that's where people is doing wrong today is raising their children not to work. David Dollar (02:26): Not to work. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:31): Not the love to work David Dollar (02:31): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:33): Plan to work. I think they get more out of life. I have enjoyed my whole life. David Dollar (02:33): I see. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:39): I have got pleasure out of my work. I love to work. David Dollar (02:42): Wait and how did you learn if your mother was kind of sick? Was she able to show you these things? How did you learn to say to cook and iron? I know. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:50): Well... David Dollar (02:50): I can't do stuff like that now. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:51): When I was tinier, I seen her doing it and I learned to do it. And I tell you one time, my cornbread smelt funny, and I didn't want to bother mama with nothing because she was sick. David Dollar (03:05): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:06): And the house had a big old hall in it. The kitchen way down there. I didn't have to bother. David Dollar (03:10): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:10): Miss Allie Boward came from her field where she was working at her lunch out. And I met her at the hall steps and I said, "Miss Allie, I am so proud you come." I says, "My cornbread smells funny." She come on in there and she says, "Honey, tasted it. You ain't put no salt in it. You forgot to put your salt." David Dollar (03:32): And you were young and just learning how to cook. Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:34): Yeah. And then another thing Miss Allie Boward helped me put my first quilt in the frame. David Dollar (03:39): Oh, yeah? Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:39): To quilt. David Dollar (03:40): I noticed when we were coming in, you got another one in the works out there now. Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:43): Oh, yeah. There's several of them. I've been quilting ever since. Piecing. I crochet. I embroidery. I [inaudible 00:03:50]. When I sit down, I've got something in my hands doing it. I love to work, stay busy. I think we all should stay busy. I think if people would stay busy, I think they'd hold their mind longer. David Dollar (04:05): Wouldn't have time to get in a bunch of trouble that way would we? Mrs. Occie Stafford (04:05): That's true. David Dollar (04:05): We stay busy. Mrs. Occie Stafford (04:11): And I want to stay busy as long as I live and I expect to, and I expect to keep my old self going. And I I milk cows and I churn. I plowed a horse. I had a horse to ride. I had a saddle and always raised chickens. We raised our meat. We raised our cane and made our syrup. I skim syrup, made syrup on any day. I could make a syrup just as good as anybody. David Dollar (04:11): You were right in the middle of all that stuff going on. Mrs. Occie Stafford (04:40): Yes, sir. I've had a full life. David Dollar (04:42): Let me stop you right here. We need to take a short commercial. We'll pick up here in just a second. Mrs. Occie Stafford (04:46): Okay. David Dollar (04:47): David Dollar visiting with Ms. Occie Stafford down in Marthaville. We'd be right back after this message from our sponsor, People's Bank and Trust Company. (05:00): Hello, once again. In case you're just joining us. David Dollar and Ms. Occie Stafford down in Marthaville. We visited with Mr. Stafford last time and talked to him some. We're talking to Mrs. Stafford now and she's telling us about more work than I've heard about in quite a while. You, I'm kind of getting tired, sitting here, listening to everything you've been talking about. Let's go back to when you were a little girl and and you said your mom was sick. All this work that you did, you really had to do. It wasn't a... Mrs. Occie Stafford (05:00): It was a necessity because there wasn't nobody to hire them days. It didn't do that. David Dollar (05:00): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (05:36): And nobody had no money to hire. David Dollar (05:38): So? Mrs. Occie Stafford (05:38): And we washed on a rug board. We hung our clothes out on a picket fence. And so we live. Now, people call it the bad times back in old times, but it was the good times. It was a lot of better times. There was more pleasure with children, young folks, old folks, people come spend Sunday and eat dinner with you. And they was more in life back then there are now. David Dollar (06:03): Let me ask you this. You talk about pleasurable times when you finally finished all this work that you were doing, what did you do to have a good time? I know you enjoyed working. Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:14): We went to church and went to Sunday school. David Dollar (06:16): What all went on in church when you were a little girl? What do you remember about that? Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:20): Well we had Sunday school. We had league. We belonged to the Methodist Church. We had the children's league and the church and the preachers them days would come spend the night with you because they didn't have cars. David Dollar (06:20): Right. Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:26): And enjoy cooking and fixing for the ministers you know. And we had a wagon to go and come to church in. David Dollar (06:42): Did y'all ever do much dancing or anything like that? Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:44): No, I never did dance. David Dollar (06:46): That's kind of not accepted too much there, uh?. Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:50): No, we wasn't. Mr. Dave Stafford (06:51): I did it. [crosstalk 00:06:51]. David Dollar (06:51): You did? Oh, now Mr. Stafford something's been going on here. One of them dancing and one of them isn't. Who were you dancing with? You don't have to answer that. I'm just kidding. Don't answer. Might get y'all in trouble here. [crosstalk 00:07:02] Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:04): But we met up and we married in 1929. David Dollar (07:07): I see. Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:09): He was 29 years old and I was 26. David Dollar (07:13): When did y'all marry here in Marthaville? Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:13): In Natchitoches. David Dollar (07:13): In Natchitoches? Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:16): Right down there where that Live Oak store is at, in front of the new drug store. David Dollar (07:22): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:22): That store. There was a different building then. That's where we married. [inaudible 00:07:28] David Dollar (07:30): And y'all moved back over in this area? Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:31): Yeah, we come back to Marthaville and lived in Marthaville. He was still saw milling. David Dollar (07:31): Saw milling and you were still busy doing things at home. Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:43): Yes, sir. I always carried on to work at home and I've always had a garden every year. And so he just... My life has been full. David Dollar (07:52): Have y'all had any children? Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:53): No, we don't have any children. David Dollar (07:55): I was just wondering if you were able to pass on all these things to... Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:59): No, I don't have no children. David Dollar (08:00): I see. Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:00): But my sister's children, I guess feel about like my grandchildren. Now my brothers got a boy down here. Only child he's got and he's the nearest thing to both of us. David Dollar (08:00): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:21): And they've got two little children and a little boy and little girl and we... David Dollar (08:21): Let me ask you this, have you been able to interest them in cooking or doing some quilting or anything like that? Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:28): I taught his wife. I learned her how to crochet and... David Dollar (08:28): Oh, really? Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:29): And to sew and to do a lot of things that she didn't do. Fancy work and she has really enjoyed it and made life out of it. David Dollar (08:39): Great. Great. Well, Ms. Stafford we certainly enjoyed you visiting with us today. Mr. Stafford thank you for, even though it might have got you in trouble, but in there about dancing, you better watch stuff like that. Those lady folks will get you, if they find out you've been out dancing on them. Mr. Dave Stafford (08:39): I know. David Dollar (08:39): Okay. Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:55): Before we married, he drank a little but he quit it before we married. David Dollar (08:56): Quit that too. Oh, that's good. Mrs. Occie Stafford (09:01): So I wanna tell y'all one thing. Is the tape still on? David Dollar (09:02): It's still on. I'll tell you what, we'll finish it. If it's kind of secret, let me finish up the show. Mrs. Occie Stafford (09:02): I want to tell y'all one thing but I didn't want it on tape. David Dollar (09:12): All right. [crosstalk 00:09:12]. (09:12): I tell you what, I'm fixing to end this show up and I'm going to find something out that y'all, ain't going to find out because I got to turn the tape off. We thank you for joining us this far though. David Dollar visiting with the Staffords down in Marthaville and it's just about raining and thundering on the series. I'm sure you can hear.

David Dollar speaks with Occie Stafford in Marthaville about growing up doing chores and how that translated into working.

April 18, 2024

28. Mary Jacobs

Transcript

Jim Colley (00:00): ... this morning on The Memory Show we'll be talking with Mrs. Mary Jacobs at her home here in Natchitoches. This is Jim [Colley 00:00:06]. Welcome to The Memory Show, Mrs. Jacobs. We're glad to see you. Mary Jacobs (00:09): Glad to see you. Jim Colley (00:11): We were talking about, before the show began, where you grew up. You grew up right around this area didn't you? Mary Jacobs (00:18): Grew up in Cypress. Jim Colley (00:19): Where's Cypress? Mary Jacobs (00:20): 12 miles from here. Jim Colley (00:22): So have you ever been out of this parish? Mary Jacobs (00:24): Sure. Jim Colley (00:24): You travelled around a lot? Mary Jacobs (00:26): Not too much, but I have been out of [inaudible 00:00:28] like Mississippi and New York, and that's it. Jim Colley (00:35): I've always wondered where the name Cypress came from. Do you know? Mary Jacobs (00:40): No, I wouldn't know. Jim Colley (00:41): Were there any Cypress trees around there? Mary Jacobs (00:44): A few. Jim Colley (00:44): Just a few. Not very many, though. Mary Jacobs (00:44): Not too many. Jim Colley (00:47): Well, I've always wondered about that. How large was your family? Mary Jacobs (00:52): Five kids, mother and daddy. Jim Colley (00:55): You were what? The next to last? Is that what you told me? Mary Jacobs (01:00): Next to the last. Jim Colley (01:01): Next to the last. Mary Jacobs (01:01): That's right. Jim Colley (01:02): Were you spoiled? Mary Jacobs (01:04): Yes, I was. Jim Colley (01:04): What was it like being a spoiled fourth child? Mary Jacobs (01:09): I loved it. I wasn't a [inaudible 00:01:13]. Yes I am. Jim Colley (01:18): Growing up down in Cypress and living down there, was that a saw mill town or was it basically a farming town? Mary Jacobs (01:26): Basically a farming town. Jim Colley (01:28): Your dad worked for who down there? Mary Jacobs (01:29): Mr. Jim Salters. Jim Colley (01:29): What was it like growing up around there? What did the kids have to do? Mary Jacobs (01:36): Well, we didn't have too much to do. We'd do swimming, build us a diving board down at the river. And we went to school, now. We went to school in a small church house. Now I never did get no further than the fourth grade. But it was a small church house, went to schooling down there. But we had a good time down there. We was raised... Now my daddy used to cut cordwood. And we burned cordwood, we burned wood , and we also cooked on wood, y’know we had a heater. That's what we was raised by, a heater. We didn't have a fireplace like people does y’know . So that's where we lived. My daddy used to kill hog, kill meat. Jim Colley (02:13): And you all have put that up? Mary Jacobs (02:15): And then we'd raise chicken. Jim Colley (02:16): Would you make all that stuff, smoke it? And you remember much about that? Mary Jacobs (02:21): I mean, I remember some of it. He would salt the meat down. I remember about the salt. But I don't remember no smoked meat, but we never did. I didn't see him do it. He just salt the meat down. Jim Colley (02:34): The way families grew up back then, they were a lot closer. And I think one of the reasons why, the houses weren't very big. What kind of house do you remember growing up in? Mary Jacobs (02:43): I grew up a three room frame building. Jim Colley (02:46): So everybody just lived right there together? Mary Jacobs (02:48): That's right. Three rooms, that's right. Jim Colley (02:51): And the heat came... You said you grew up around a heater. Didn't have a fireplace. Mary Jacobs (02:54): Yeah, it had a heater. We didn't have a fireplace. We had a heater to burn wood, and also a cookstove to burn wood in it. Jim Colley (03:01): But it didn't ever get too cold down there? Mary Jacobs (03:04): Not too bad. Jim Colley (03:06): What kind of games did you play as a child? Do you remember any? Mary Jacobs (03:09): Yeah, played stick dolls, and we played like these ring around the roses. [inaudible 00:03:19] play? Jim Colley (03:21): How would you make those stick dolls? Did you make them to play with, or did somebody make them for you? Mary Jacobs (03:25): We made them ourselves. [inaudible 00:03:26] on a stick piece of wood and cut it and split it. Put some arms on it, sewed a rag around the arm and make a little round knot and make the head. And make little dresses and put them on. Now you couldn't see the feet. Jim Colley (03:40): So you had a real good doll. Mary Jacobs (03:41): A real good doll. Jim Colley (03:43): After you finished with that. Mary Jacobs (03:44): Sure did. Take a matchbox and make them little trunks to put the clothes in. Jim Colley (03:49): So you could play house almost. Mary Jacobs (03:56): Yeah. Like my doll, going to visit somebody, I would stick them under the house [inaudible 00:03:56]. Jim Colley (03:58): That's a good way of doing it. As you grew up and got to be a teenager, did you have many dates? Or did y'all date or did you just go out in crowds together? Mary Jacobs (04:11): We usually went out in crowd together. When I did started dating, I eventually got married. Jim Colley (04:16): It just led right into it didn't it? Mary Jacobs (04:18): That's right. Jim Colley (04:19): What kind of things did a teenage crowd do? We were talking about dances. Mary Jacobs (04:23): That was it. Our teenage, we'd go to each other houses or they'd invite us to their house and we'd play dance. This dance, seven of eight and circle right. Jim Colley (04:34): Now what's that? Seven of eight. Mary Jacobs (04:35): Seven of eight of us. And then it says circle right, and you'd go back left and we'd go back right and swing each other. Jim Colley (04:44): Yeah? And then you'd go through the same dance again or was there something else you'd do? Mary Jacobs (04:47): Oh, we'd play old house. Tear it down. [inaudible 00:04:50]. We could dance by that. Jim Colley (04:51): Well, tell me what old house tear it down is. Mary Jacobs (04:54): Well, that's all I knew. It just was a song and we would dance by it. Jim Colley (04:57): So everybody'd sing it and dance at the same time. Mary Jacobs (04:59): Dance by it. Be singing it. Old house, tear it down. Old house, tear it... Then go on. You got to hand me and build [inaudible 00:05:07] and all that stuff. Jim Colley (05:08): Oh, so it had a lot of motion kind of things to it. Mary Jacobs (05:13): That's right, that's right. And little Sally Walker sitting in a saucer. Ride Sally ride like that. Jim Colley (05:13): Now what? Mary Jacobs (05:18): Little Sally Walker sitting in a saucer weeping and a crying. Ride Sally ride. And we'd ride and choose my partner and swing them going around. Jim Colley (05:27): Those were good times. Mary Jacobs (05:28): It sure were. That's kind of time we had. Jim Colley (05:30): Yeah. Mary Jacobs (05:31): Oh, like now we didn't have nothing like that. Jim Colley (05:34): You had to make do with your own stuff, and somehow that was pretty good stuff I guess. Mary Jacobs (05:38): That's right. Jim Colley (05:39): What about picnics? Did y'all have many picnics? Mary Jacobs (05:44): Right at the house. Jim Colley (05:45): Right at the house. Mary Jacobs (05:46): We lived on a river bank. We'd have it right up behind the bank. Damn kids get under there and have a picnic. Sometimes mama would be with us, if not, just us. Fish a lot. Jim Colley (05:54): Did you ever have any of those box lunch kind of parties? Mary Jacobs (05:58): Sure. I just said, told you about these boxes we had. We take a shoebox, dress it up, by this paper you know , and make it fancy. Jim Colley (06:08): How would you dress it up? What would one look like? You tell me what one would look like. Mary Jacobs (06:12): Oh, we'd take a shoe box and take this crepe paper and make little tucks around it you know . Put a big bow on top of it and apple, candy, fried chicken in there like that. And then sell the box. Boy buy it, your box. Boy buy the next girl box. Jim Colley (06:29): And so everybody bid on your box, right? Whoever they wanted to eat with- Mary Jacobs (06:29): That's the box they'd buy. Jim Colley (06:29): ... they bid on the box. Mary Jacobs (06:35): That's right. Jim Colley (06:37): Whose box always sold for the most money? Mary Jacobs (06:42): I don't know. Jim Colley (06:42): Was it yours? Mary Jacobs (06:43): I don't know. Jim Colley (06:44): You can't remember, huh? Mary Jacobs (06:45): I can't remember that because the lady didn't tell us. Jim Colley (06:50): Oh. Now that was what happened to the money? Mary Jacobs (06:53): She'd take it to the church. Jim Colley (06:54): Ah, it was a church kind of event. Mary Jacobs (06:58): That's right. Jim Colley (06:58): I guess the church was a place where everybody met and it was just a good social kind of center. Mary Jacobs (07:01): That's right. A little small church, and that's where I went to school, this little small church. Jim Colley (07:06): I wanted to ask you about the school, but let's take a break right now for People's Bank & Trust. And when we come back together, we're going to start off talking about that school you were in, okay? (07:18): If you've just joined this , is The Memory Show. And we're talking with Mrs. Mary Jacobs in her home here in Natchitoches. Ms. Jacobs, we were just talking about growing up in Cypress and what it was like commuting between Cypress on the train. Do you remember much about those train rides? Mary Jacobs (07:36): Yeah, I remember a lot about the train ride because that's the only way we could get to going anyplace. But when we got on the train, we came up here one time, you know and my daddy [inaudible 00:07:44] we just... I don't know nothing about no town. Just walking along just looking. And then he just pulled and bumped my head. I [inaudible 00:07:54]. Jim Colley (07:56): You should have been looking where you were going. Mary Jacobs (07:59): That's right. [inaudible 00:07:59] I went to cry. And he said, "I told you I was ready to go on it." But it wasn't just the [inaudible 00:08:04] train. We used to go up to Shreveport on the train. And they had a little train called Doodle Dump. Jim Colley (08:08): The Doodle Dump train? Mary Jacobs (08:10): Yeah. And we slipped in this caboose you know and ride from here, up from Cypress up here. [inaudible 00:08:15] my mother had a auntie up here you know and we'd come to visit her, stay all day, and catch the little Doodle Dump and go back home. Jim Colley (08:22): And so that's what everybody called the train was Doodle Dump. Mary Jacobs (08:22): That's right. Jim Colley (08:25): I didn't know that there was such a thing. Mary Jacobs (08:27): Well, this was a caboose. I mean, an engine and a [inaudible 00:08:30] and one coach and a caboose. You know [inaudible 00:08:33] caboose? Jim Colley (08:33): Yeah? Mary Jacobs (08:33): Yeah. Jim Colley (08:35): There wasn't much room on there. Mary Jacobs (08:36): Not much room on it. We'd sit up there and [inaudible 00:08:39] like that. Jim Colley (08:40): What was it like for a little girl to be riding on that train? Mary Jacobs (08:42): Oh, it be fun. I want to get up and just run all over the place, but they'd make me sit down. I did. I really enjoyed it- Jim Colley (08:48): I'll bet. Mary Jacobs (08:48): ... at that time you know . Jim Colley (08:50): How old were you when you first started riding the train? Mary Jacobs (08:52): About five years old. Jim Colley (08:54): Did you ever have to ride it by yourself? Mary Jacobs (08:57): Oh, not at five. I never did. Around about 10, 11 I could come up here and see my auntie and go back. Jim Colley (09:05): You said you would go from Cypress up to Natchitoches and Shreveport and where? Mary Jacobs (09:09): In Waskom, Texas. Jim Colley (09:11): How long would it take to ride? Do you remember? All day to go from Cypress- Mary Jacobs (09:17): No. Not all day. To Natchitoches? Jim Colley (09:20): No, to Waskom. I guess you'd what? Go go up to Shreveport and change trains up there. Mary Jacobs (09:25): Yes. No, we didn't change trains. Jim Colley (09:25): Same train. Mary Jacobs (09:28): It was a long train, then, when you rode going up that way. But just from Natchitoches back to Cypress was just a little caboose you know . The engine and this caboose you know . But this was a train. I'd just get on a train and ride up there. But I'd stay all night and come back. But it wouldn't take all day. If I catched the morning train I'd get up there by 12:00. [crosstalk 00:09:51]. Jim Colley (09:50): Now we I wish we had trains like that now, because- Mary Jacobs (09:54): So do I. Jim Colley (09:54): It sure would be a lot easier. Mary Jacobs (09:56): It would. Jim Colley (09:57): But trains were quite an adventure for little kids. All that noise- Mary Jacobs (10:01): Yes, it was. Jim Colley (10:01): ... and big engines and lots of people. Mary Jacobs (10:03): That's right. Get out on it. And we lived right in front of it, right in front of the track. And we'd just get out there and pick up rocks and things, throw it at the trains as it passed by, go out there and try to catch the train you know . A little long train pass, I'd run out there and try to swing one of them. Jim Colley (10:20): Now what do you mean, swing one of them? Mary Jacobs (10:21): You know, catch it by the... You see all those brakeman catch a train? Jim Colley (10:24): Yeah? Mary Jacobs (10:25): Well, I'd try that. Jim Colley (10:27): Well, what happened if you caught it? Mary Jacobs (10:29): Ride a little piece and jump off. Jim Colley (10:30): Ooh. I bet your mother didn't like you doing that. Mary Jacobs (10:34): No, she didn't like it, but we always did. Jim Colley (10:38): Wasn't much she had to say about it. Mary Jacobs (10:40): She didn't say too much. She would just say it was dangerous. Jim Colley (10:43): Yeah. Right before we took that break a few minutes ago, we were talking about going to school. What do you remember about that school? You said you never finished... Well, you got up to the fourth grade. Do you remember much about school? Were there a lot of children there? Mary Jacobs (10:59): It was about 50, something like that in this small church right there. It was kind of crowded. And she was a nice teacher, too. Jim Colley (11:08): Who was your teacher? Mary Jacobs (11:09): Clara Turner. Jim Colley (11:14): She never had to sit you up on a stool with a dunce cap on? Did you ever get a- Mary Jacobs (11:19): She whipped you in your hands. A strap. Jim Colley (11:22): Did she ever whip you? What'd you done wrong? Mary Jacobs (11:25): Jumped on another girl. Jim Colley (11:25): Ooh. Mary Jacobs (11:25): It was about my food. Jim Colley (11:31): She was after your- Mary Jacobs (11:32): She wanted it. I had a ham bone in it, and that girl [inaudible 00:11:36] wanted the ham bone. I didn't want her to have it. Jim Colley (11:32): And that was that. Mary Jacobs (11:32): That was that. Jim Colley (11:41): And you jumped her and you got your hands slapped on there. Mary Jacobs (11:44): I sure did. And stayed in, no recess. Jim Colley (11:47): Uh-oh. And that was punishment, too. Mary Jacobs (11:49): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jim Colley (11:51): Well, Ms. Jacobs, we've enjoyed talking with you this morning. We're glad that you let us come in and remind ourselves of some of your memories. I'm sure a lot of us out there in the listening audience remember train rides and schools and growing up games and some of those old songs that we used to sing to dance together. Mary Jacobs (12:09): That's right.

Jim Colley speaks with Mary Jacobs about activities growing up in Natchitoches from dances to riding trains.

April 4, 2024

27. Elizabeth Sutton

Transcript

Jim Collie (00:01): Mrs. Sutton. We're glad to be visiting with you in your home. Welcome to the memories show. Elizebeth Sutton (00:05): Hello, now what do you want me to say? Jim Collie (00:08): We want to talk about what it was like growing up. Where were you born? Elizebeth Sutton (00:12): East Coushatta. Jim Collie (00:14): At Coushatta (00:15): What did your daddy do? Elizebeth Sutton (00:16): He was adopted. Jim Collie (00:18): And his name was? Elizebeth Sutton (00:19): Henry Brown, Dr. Henry Brown. Jim Collie (00:21): Before the show began, we were talking about some pretty remarkable medical things he had done. He was the third man to do a... Elizebeth Sutton (00:32): Appendix operation. Jim Collie (00:34): In the world? Elizebeth Sutton (00:35): First to do it in the south, and the other one did it up in Pennsylvania, and one did it in Austria. Jim Collie (00:42): How did he learn how to do the operation? Elizebeth Sutton (00:45): Studied books from this doctor in Austria. Jim Collie (00:49): What was that first operation like where was it? Elizebeth Sutton (00:51): Well, I don't know, I wasn't born then! Jim Collie (00:55): You heard him tell about it? Elizebeth Sutton (00:57): I read in the medical journal about it. I read his medical journals when I was a child. That's the way I got educated Jim Collie (01:04): Reading medical journals. Where did he do that first appendix operation? Elizebeth Sutton (01:08): Out in the country from Coushatta. Between Coushatta and Rango. Jim Collie (01:12): And who was the patient? Do you remember? Elizebeth Sutton (01:12): I don't know! I wasn't born. Jim Collie (01:16): It was a lady. Elizebeth Sutton (01:17): Uh-huh (affirmative). It was a lady. And my mother gave her the ether. Jim Collie (01:21): Your mother gave her the ether. Was that in her home? Elizebeth Sutton (01:24): In this lady's home. In her kitchen. Jim Collie (01:26): On the kitchen table, I guess. Elizebeth Sutton (01:28): Yeah, Jim Collie (01:28): That was quite an operation. Did he have much influence on medical stuff here? Did he go to Shreveport? Elizebeth Sutton (01:38): Oh yes. My mother had an uncle in Shreveport that was a doctor, and he'd called pop in for his operation. Jim Collie (01:45): So he taught folks how to do the surgery. Elizebeth Sutton (01:48): Oh appendix . Jim Collie (01:50): Did you ever participate in any of those operations? Elizebeth Sutton (01:54): Oh, no, but what I did was when I was about nine years old, he taught me how to give the ether and I give the ether for him to do little. Jim Collie (02:06): You didn't ever worry about it? Elizebeth Sutton (02:07): No, it didn't bother me. Curiosity, I wanted to see what went on. Jim Collie (02:14): What went on in those early operations? Elizebeth Sutton (02:16): Well, I don't remember too much, but I remember one night balling. My daddy had balled me out and he wasn't going to let that child give his child ether, my father told me to get out. Jim Collie (02:27): Uh oh, that was that! Elizebeth Sutton (02:30): That was back in East Point, and I was about 10 years old. And then I never did forget it, but I didn't know who the people were. And years later I was living up Shreveport dixie. And so people moved up there from East Point and I had met the lady, her husband and I went down to see her and her husband's father was there, and he asked me, she told him, here's the lady used to live at East Point and he asked me who I was. He says, well, you old Dr. Brown's daughter? And I said, yes. Which one? He had seven. I said, you said "you were not that he ugly little toe head that tried giving my boy ether, was you?" I said yes! So he remembered, I remembered. Jim Collie (03:23): You got caught. Elizebeth Sutton (03:25): He and it was a daddy or not that away said I shouldn't be raised Sam, but Dr. Brown put me out the office Jim Collie (03:36): It. Sure. Wasn't very easy being a doctor back in the early days. Elizebeth Sutton (03:39): Oh no, I had to ride horseback all the time and he leaves home sometime be gone a week before he got back home. They on his circuits. Sometime he leaved us to go down to one place and then you be a triple before he'd get back Jim Collie (03:57): You never knew when to expect. Elizebeth Sutton (03:58): no. Jim Collie (03:59): Did people pay money back in those days? Elizebeth Sutton (04:02): Not much. He said that when he retired, my mother said he never set a bill. People came and paid it. They had money that paid and didn't they'd brought, whatever they had corn, hay, meat. Jim Collie (04:19): So you always had plenty of food, but not a whole lot of money. Elizebeth Sutton (04:22): Well, he, collected, he did enough to buy a plantation over in tenses parish. Jim Collie (04:29): What was the name of that plantation? Elizebeth Sutton (04:31): Shackleford Jim Collie (04:32): Did you live there very long? Elizebeth Sutton (04:34): Oh, I stayed that one year, but I had to go to school. So they put me over here. Jim Collie (04:41): Where'd you Go to school? Elizebeth Sutton (04:42): Here at the normal Jim Collie (04:44): How old were you when you came to school? Elizebeth Sutton (04:44): 14 years old. Jim Collie (04:47): 14 at the normal school. When did you graduate? Elizebeth Sutton (04:51): Oh late 19 8. Jim Collie (04:55): 1908 I didn't realize the school was that old? Elizebeth Sutton (05:00): Oh, yes. It was a big school when I was at it. It was 300 students. Jim Collie (05:06): Did they all live in dormitories on campus? Elizebeth Sutton (05:09): We had dormitories yes. Have had oh three dormitories and the dining hall and a matron's hall, then two school buildings a college building and a grade school building. Jim Collie (05:26): Well, that was quite a complex. Elizebeth Sutton (05:28): Yeah and to see the way these kids do now, we couldn't leave that ground like that. We had to go to the matron hall and sign out that we were going and the only time where you could go was on Wednesday evenings. We could go to town, do a little shopping . Jim Collie (05:46): So you didn't even go to church Elizebeth Sutton (05:49): Sunday we'd go to church, but we mustn't stopped and talked to boys, we weren't allowed to do that. Jim Collie (05:55): What happened if they caught you talking to a boy? Elizebeth Sutton (05:57): They punished us. Jim Collie (05:59): How did you get punished? Elizebeth Sutton (06:00): Like talking to my cousin, I stopped. I met my cousin. I was with my girl cousin. And we met her brother. And we had been raised just like a modern family. And her brother laid up or Steve and Jewish Steven were together and they knew us. And they'd say, come on, get an ice cream. So we went and got ice cream and then somebody reported us. And I said "well, I thought it was all right talking with my cousin.” Jim Collie (06:35): Can't even talk to a cousin. What did they do to punish you and make you stay in the room? Elizebeth Sutton (06:40): Well no, we couldn't go outside. We couldn't go anywhere after two weeks. Jim Collie (06:46): Well, that's terrible. And look how these students get away with things nowadays. Elizebeth Sutton (06:52): And look at them! (06:52): And when we went to class room, we had to be dressed correctly. I went one day in hurry and I forgot to put my belt on and I was scared to death. The whole day of the teachers go send me home because I didn't have my belt on. Jim Collie (07:09): How did you dress to go to class? What kind of clothes did you wear? Elizebeth Sutton (07:17): Well, what you would wear on the streets. Jim Collie (07:17): Was it a long dress and Elizebeth Sutton (07:20): Oh yeah, they were long then we wore long dresses. Jim Collie (07:23): And, and wrist length blouses. Elizebeth Sutton (07:26): Oh yes. Jim Collie (07:27): even in the hot weather. Elizebeth Sutton (07:28): Uh huh. Jim Collie (07:29): and your hair in a bun. Did you have to put your hair up? Elizebeth Sutton (07:32): Oh yeah. You must go. You have to be dressed correctly. Jim Collie (07:37): That was pretty hard way to live Elizebeth Sutton (07:38): No it wasn't then . But we had to check in and then when we came back, we had to go report in. We had to be in before five o'clock. We were never allowed out after that Jim Collie (07:53): My goodness. That was pretty early Ms. Sutton. We're going to take a break right now for a commercial message from people's bank and trust, but we'll be back in just a minute. (08:05): This is Jim Collie on the memory show. And we're visiting with Mrs. Elizabeth Sutton in her home on Pine street. We'd like to talk about what Natchitoches was like when you first moved here. When did you move here? First Mrs Sutton? Elizebeth Sutton (08:22): 19 and nine. Jim Collie (08:23): 19 and nine. What was Natchitoches like? Elizebeth Sutton (08:26): Oh please. It was with the college and all a town of 500. Jim Collie (08:31): That was total. Golly, not very many homes. Elizebeth Sutton (08:35): Well, no, this house was here that has over there and this and that on the corner. The dirt was a foot deep in the streets when we came in about this. But then there weren't many sidewalks much, we lived up on, up on what we call it a hill up there. Oh, close to Texas street. Well 30th street running into Texas street, my sister-in-law Mrs black. She lived on the corner and we lived next to them and the Abrams lived up the hill. There were plenty of children. They all played in the street. Cause it wasn't any sidewalk. Jim Collie (09:22): Who else lived up on the hill. You mentioned the Blanchards and the Aarons . Elizebeth Sutton (09:31): The Abrams, the Blanchards , and the Hans Jim Collie (09:33): That was where most of the people lived up on The hill? Elizebeth Sutton (09:37): Good many of them on the street back of us, usually back there. Then the car was bought and built back there. The Scarborough lived back up there. But the town was small. And Over there, there was hardly anybody. Jim Collie (09:54): Nobody Lived over there. And the people that did you didn't care for, huh? Elizebeth Sutton (09:57): Oh yeah. A few people lived over there, but they were just digging right along Williams avenue. There's four or five houses. And but there weren't many. Jim Collie (10:11): On your way to town from the hill, did you pass by the Jewish synagogue? Elizebeth Sutton (10:16): Oh no. The Jewish cemetery was way back over there Jim Collie (10:19): Where, is the Jewish cemetery? Elizebeth Sutton (10:22): I don't want the six seventh street back. Jim Collie (10:23): I don't think I've ever seen it. Elizebeth Sutton (10:26): It's back, way back, that way. But see, we lived on third street. That Jewish cemetery was further back. The Catholics lived here. They lived on second street and then some on Washington street, not Washington uh Jefferson. You know where the Catholics lived up and they were friends of mine and they used to come and get me to go up to the Jewish cemetery with them. They love to go up there as the reading on you. It, Jim Collie (10:58): There used to be a synagogue here. A Jewish church? Elizebeth Sutton (11:01): yeah. Jim Collie (11:02): Where was that? Elizebeth Sutton (11:03): On second street. And then after they stopped having a church the whole Catholics got a kindergarten. Jim Collie (11:13): And I think they've torn that building down now. Haven't they? Elizebeth Sutton (11:16): I believe they have, yeah. Jim Collie (11:18): It's right behind the Ford Motor Company? Elizebeth Sutton (11:20): Yeah. Uh huh. No , right behind Ford Motor Company that's were the old Baptist church was. Now I when I came here there was just a Catholic church and a presbyterian church and the Methodist. They had a Baptist was up there in front of where Sears Roebuck is. Somewhere along there. Not its not Sears Roebuck. Yes. Sears Roebuck is up there. Jim Collie (11:46): So you and Mr. Sutton moved off the hill and over here by the American cemetery. Elizebeth Sutton (11:51): We went to up to Shreveport, then then we came back. We bought here, we stayed up there and I had a three children ready to go to college. So we came on back down here. Yeah. Jim Collie (11:51): Ms. Sutton, you were telling me during the commercial break that you're 87 years old. And that you're just about to go back to your kitchen and do what? Elizebeth Sutton (11:51): Make jelly. Jim Collie (11:51): You're making jelly. Where did you get the stuff to make jelly out of? Elizebeth Sutton (11:51): Oh, went down, along the highway and picked berries. Jim Collie (11:51): What kind of berries you got? Elizebeth Sutton (11:51): blueberries, and blackberries mixed I don't know exactly what I brought here. We stayed up there and I had three, children ready for college. So we came on back down.

Jim Collie speaks with Elizabeth Sutton about her education growing up in Couschatta and Natchitoches.

March 21, 2024

26. Eugene Montgomery

Transcript

Hubert Laster (00:02): This morning, we're going to be visiting with Mr. Gene Montgomery down Bellwood way. I'm Hubert Laster and this is the Memories Program. (00:12): Mr. Montgomery, you were talking about medicine and how it was when you were a boy. Tell me about some of the home remedies that your parents used? Eugene Montgomery (00:25): Well, there's one of them for the pneumonia would be putting turpentine stupes hot on his chest. Hubert Laster (00:36): Now what is that? Eugene Montgomery (00:37): That's turpentine mixed with water. Hubert Laster (00:41): And you just soak it in a rag? Eugene Montgomery (00:43): Rag, put it on a rag. It kind of pull on chest. Hubert Laster (00:47): Does it work? Eugene Montgomery (00:48): Yes, sir. Hubert Laster (00:50): Didn't kill nobody? Eugene Montgomery (00:51): No. Hubert Laster (00:52): Saved a lot of lives? Eugene Montgomery (00:53): Yeah. Hubert Laster (00:58): Well, I know that you were raised on a farm. And I know that most of the things that you raised you ate, and you didn't get to sell very much. So tell me about how you preserved meat. Eugene Montgomery (01:13): Well, the hog meat would be killed in winter when it was cold. Soldered down and then smoke it after it lay about 10 days. Hubert Laster (01:29): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (01:30): And then smoke it for until it get good and brown. Hubert Laster (01:35): Now this is a slow fire? Eugene Montgomery (01:37): It's just a slow fire. Hubert Laster (01:39): Hardwood fire. What kind of wood is the best for smoking? Eugene Montgomery (01:42): Well, use hickory mostly. Hubert Laster (01:46): Can't find no hickory trees hardly no more, you know that don't you? Eugene Montgomery (01:50): Well, I got plenty of them. Hubert Laster (01:50): You Do? Okay, don't tell nobody. What about sausage? Do you remember how to make sausage? Eugene Montgomery (01:57): Well, they ground the meat with a hand machine. Hubert Laster (02:00): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (02:02): Then they season it with sage and pepper. Hubert Laster (02:07): What, equal parts or what? Eugene Montgomery (02:09): Well, there's so much pepper and so much sage. I don't whether it was just exactly equal or not, but see, they wanted it ... Depending on how hot they wanted the sausage about how much pepper they put, they put black pepper and red pepper. Hubert Laster (02:26): That made it good. Eugene Montgomery (02:27): Yeah. I mean, that sage gave it the flavor. Hubert Laster (02:30): Do you still make it? Eugene Montgomery (02:32): No, sir. I don't. Hubert Laster (02:34): Well, is the sausage nowadays as good as it was then? Eugene Montgomery (02:37): No, sir. Hubert Laster (02:38): Is that right? Eugene Montgomery (02:44): No [crosstalk 00:02:45]. Hubert Laster (02:45): Did you all make lye soap? Eugene Montgomery (02:46): Yes, sir. Hubert Laster (02:49): How about lye hominy? Eugene Montgomery (02:52): Yeah. Hubert Laster (02:54): Okay. I want to know, how did you not make lye hominy? Eugene Montgomery (03:00): You take corn, you shelled it. Just dry corn and shell it. Put it in a vessel and take wood ashes. Hubert Laster (03:11): Yeah? Eugene Montgomery (03:12): Hardwood ashes spread on top of it, that is in the water. And soak it for about 24 hours. Hubert Laster (03:21): And then what'd you do with it? Eugene Montgomery (03:23): Take it out, wash it, pull the outside skin off of them and wash it until you got all the ashes out it, clean. Hubert Laster (03:35): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (03:35): Then cook it. Hubert Laster (03:35): And cook it. Eugene Montgomery (03:39): Put it in a vessel and cooked it. Hubert Laster (03:41): And how long would lye hominy sit after that? Eugene Montgomery (03:46): Well, about two or three days is as long as you could keep it unless you put it in jars or something like that. Hubert Laster (03:56): How long would it keep like that, after you put it in jars? Eugene Montgomery (04:00): Oh, it'd keep six months or longer. Hubert Laster (04:02): Six months, how about that. You've lived in this community all your life. Eugene Montgomery (04:10): Yes, sir. Hubert Laster (04:11): I was talking to a fellow down the road and he was telling me they used to make a lot of whiskey around here. Eugene Montgomery (04:17): Yeah. Hubert Laster (04:18): Yeah? Eugene Montgomery (04:18): I never did make [crosstalk 00:04:19]. Hubert Laster (04:21): Okay. Do you remember, was this when prohibition was in? Eugene Montgomery (04:26): Yes, sir. Hubert Laster (04:29): A lot of people make money like that? Eugene Montgomery (04:31): Well, several of them did. Hubert Laster (04:33): And you know who they were, but we can't talk about names. Eugene Montgomery (04:40): No. Several of them made it. And some of them could make it better than others could. I guess they'd used a different process of it. Hubert Laster (04:50): Do you know anything about the processes? Eugene Montgomery (04:53): Well, nothing than more than just reading after. I never did see one them ... Actually, the stills have made it. Hubert Laster (05:01): I see. Well, what about any other alcoholic beverages? Eugene Montgomery (05:05): Well, they made beer. Beer was made with grain, corn and sugar and water, or syrup and water. Hubert Laster (05:20): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (05:21): Either one. You could sugar or syrup, either one. Hubert Laster (05:25): And how'd you do it? Eugene Montgomery (05:26): Put it in a wooden container. Hubert Laster (05:30): Yeah. Eugene Montgomery (05:33): A barrel, usually out of [inaudible 00:05:33]. Anywhere from 30 to 40, 50 gallons barrel [crosstalk 00:05:39] up. Used about a half a bushel of corn and it fermented for about 10 to 15 days, then it was ready to- Hubert Laster (05:52): To drink. Eugene Montgomery (05:53): Right. Hubert Laster (05:54): Did you strain it any way? Eugene Montgomery (05:58): Not too much of it, just a little. Hubert Laster (06:02): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (06:03): Sometimes would be a little trash in there, but- Hubert Laster (06:06): But not enough to bother you. Eugene Montgomery (06:07): No. Hubert Laster (06:08): Was it good? Eugene Montgomery (06:09): Yes, sir. If- Hubert Laster (06:09): When you ... Go ahead. Eugene Montgomery (06:14): If it was strong enough, it was intoxicated. Hubert Laster (06:19): I see. Okay. We need to take a break right now for a word from our sponsors, Peoples Bank & Trust. (06:33): In case you've just joined us, this is Hubert Laster and we're visit with Mr. Gene Montgomery on the Memories Program. You want to talk about lye soap? Eugene Montgomery (06:44): To make lye soap they taken the ashes from hardwood, oak especially. Hubert Laster (06:51): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (06:52): It would make a stronger lye and wouldn't take quite as much. And saved them, kept them dry and put them in a barrel and put up on. Then when they got the barrel full, they put vessels under the edge of the table that had it sitting on and let it drip in there and added water on top. And when it got so much or what the needed there or what the barrel would make, they'd put it in a wash pot and boil it. And then cracked them from cooking out grease, fat from the hogs or using some ranching grease. Hubert Laster (07:39): And this made soap? Eugene Montgomery (07:42): Soap. And it wasn't a hard soap, but it was a soft soap. You could pick it up with your hand and use it. Hubert Laster (07:52): Now I've heard stories about that it eat your skin off. Eugene Montgomery (07:55): Well, it never did eat any of mine off, but it was pretty strong. Some of it was. Hubert Laster (08:04): What about when you were a boy and you were going to school? Eugene Montgomery (08:09): The first few days I went to school, just one room school. And the teacher was Philip Koons, and he just had one room that he taught from the first to seventh or eighth grade. Hubert Laster (08:26): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (08:27): And it had anywhere from 30 to 40 to 50, 60 pupils. Hubert Laster (08:34): What was the age range on these pupils? Eugene Montgomery (08:37): Well, anywhere from about six, seven years of age, up to 18 or 20. Hubert Laster (08:45): 18 or 20. Okay. Eugene Montgomery (08:47): And about the second or third day I went to school, he whipped two about half-grown boys that made the smaller ones afraid to do anything, afraid to get a whipping there. And he used what we call a black gun switch, about- Hubert Laster (09:11): What's so bad about a black gun switch? Eugene Montgomery (09:14): It was tough. Hubert Laster (09:15): Aah. He didn't try to break it on anybody, did he? Eugene Montgomery (09:18): No, he didn't break it on ... Sometimes he'd [inaudible 00:09:22] it up. Hubert Laster (09:22): Woo-hoo. Sound like it's going to hurt. What about this road out there? Do you remember anything about the road? Eugene Montgomery (09:32): Oh yes, I worked on it some myself you. And it was built in fall of 1924 and '25. Hubert Laster (09:42): This is 117? Eugene Montgomery (09:44): Yes, 117. Hubert Laster (09:47): Was it gravel road then? Eugene Montgomery (09:49): Yeah, they put gravel on it after they got it completed. They finished it up from [inaudible 00:09:57] to Kisatchie in 1925. Hubert Laster (10:02): 1925. You know any funny stories connected with that road? Eugene Montgomery (10:08): Well, there's a fellow talking about camping. When working on the road, camp, and they was telling stories. One fellow, he was pretty aged and he was pretty good telling stories on, and they called him Uncle Tom. And they all let him told us stories, asked him to tell one. He told one, and the one he told was about, he was out in swamp where there lots of mosquitoes. Hubert Laster (10:43): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (10:44): And he turned the wash pot over him to keep them from biting him. And said they stuck the bill through the pot, and he'd taken his [inaudible 00:10:55]. And after a while they got so many of them on the outside of it until he picked the pot up and taken it off with them. Hubert Laster (11:05): Now that's a tall tale. Mr. Gene, we've enjoyed visiting with you today. Eugene Montgomery (11:12): Nice. Well, I enjoy with you too.

Hubert Laster speaks with Eugene Montgomery talks about growing up on a farm in Natchitoches and the different foods, remedies, and commodities that they would make.

March 7, 2024

25. H.L. Hughes

Transcript

Jim Cawley (00:01): This is Jim Cawley and we're visiting with Mr. Hughes on Memories. Mr. Hughes, welcome to the show. Mr. Hughes (00:07): Well, I appreciate it very much, you asking me up here. Jim Cawley (00:10): We're glad to have you. You grew up around Natchitoches? Mr. Hughes (00:10): Yes, sir. Jim Cawley (00:13): What was Natchitoches like when you were growing up? Mr. Hughes (00:15): Well, it was a country town, just like all the rest of them was, in Louisiana, at least. Now, I went to school up here, to college. We called it at that time the [normal 00:00:28]. President Colwell was the president when I first came up here. They tell me, the first day that I arrived... I didn't want to go inside of one of the these pretty buildings they had up here. In those days they were all wood of course, but I liked to pull up a... Let me see what kind of tree it was. A cedar tree, over here in front of Colwell Hall, which was painted blue and burned down here several years ago. Remember, you heard about it. You too young [inaudible 00:00:59] It burned down about 20 years ago. Jim Cawley (01:02): How did you pull up a cedar tree? Mr. Hughes (01:04): Well, I didn't pull it up. That is fictitious, just talking, but I said I'd like to put it up, just grabbed it around the waist, I'd call it, and hooked onto it and they couldn't get me loose to bring me inside. I'll tell you who was inside. I was going in to see Ms. Lawless Porter, who was, at that time, a teacher here in the first grade. She was also later married to Judge Porter, who was our district judge, and later became our circuit court judge. I'm a lawyer by profession. I know him well. I never did practice under him, because I was too young even to practice under him. He died before, while he was away from here. You see? Jim Cawley (01:45): Was life like? Did you have all the modern conveniences? Mr. Hughes (01:48): We didn't have any conveniences at all, in those days, because just like every other town, we had no electricity. We had no running water. We had no lights or whatever. I mentioned electricity. We could have had gas, but we didn't have gas or electricity. We didn't have any of them, any of the conveniences that you know today. Now, I remember very well, when the circus would come to town, they didn't have water for the elephants at the town, so they'd have to bring them down to Chaplin, what we knew as Chaplin Lake, to wash them off and give them a bath, and also to let them drink. Jim Cawley (02:27): The circus was a big deal for kids? Mr. Hughes (02:30): Absolutely. For everybody. For the grownups and the kids. I used to water the elephants, if I could, because my house was on Fourth Street. Let's see. Right behind my house, the circus people always stopped their train, for about a mile long from the college grounds, all the way up to my house on, as I've said a while ago, on Eight and... No. Did I say Eighth? Jim Cawley (02:59): Fourth Street? Mr. Hughes (03:00): Fourth and [Buard 00:03:03] Street. We owned everything from all the way back to the next street, which would be Fifth Street. By the way, I rent those houses back there. They're the same price I rented them 25 years ago, $120 [inaudible 00:03:15] Jim Cawley (03:15): You've mentioned that, when you're growing up in Natchitoches, you remember someone who lit the streetlights. Mr. Hughes (03:20): Yeah. I mentioned it. Paul [Slaught 00:03:22]. Jim Cawley (03:22): Paul Slaught. Mr. Hughes (03:23): He was a colored man. He used to go around with his little ladder and he'd climb up on a post and light every, he'd have to open the door of each and every light, and he'd light it. He'd climb down, take his little latter with him and go to the next corner, light it. He'd go to every town in town that had a light on. Every morning you'd have to repeat and unlight them, or put them out. Jim Cawley (03:47): What did you burn in those lights? Mr. Hughes (03:48): We burnt cool oil only. That's all we had in those days. Later on, I can tell you this. When we had electricity here, it was about 1900, if I remember correctly, about 1902, or 1903. We had an invasion of beetles. Big old, black beetles that used to come into town and they'd fly around these lights. I suppose the lights attract them, but after the third year, they disappeared completely and we never saw them again. But I was interested in them. We used to catch them and tie them with cord strings and threads and let them fly around [inaudible 00:04:28] stuff like that. Jim Cawley (04:29): Mr. Hughes will be right back with you after this word from Peoples Bank & Trust. Mr. Hughes (04:34): Is that who you're advertising? Jim Cawley (04:38): This is Jim Cawley and we're visiting with Mr. HL Hughes on Memories. Mr. Hughes, we talked before our taping session here, about your growing up in the political life of Natchitoches Parish. You probably knew Huey Long? Do you remember much about him? Mr. Hughes (04:54): Yeah. I was a member of the Round Robin outfit that saved Huey's life down in... Political life, I'd say. You know, one day I came up from New Orleans with Huey, onboard a train. That was in 1900... Well, it lasted a year. We signed the Round Robin. I think it was 1930. My memory doesn't serve me exactly right about that date, but anyway, we'll say 1930. Huey got out of the train with me, or rather I got out of the train with Huey, at the depot. We walked on up to the old Capitol Building and there was only one person, and that was the secretary of Huey, who at the time was Ms... From Freeport. What is that lady's name? Jim Cawley (05:41): She was the only one there to meet him? Mr. Hughes (05:42): She was Secretary of State later, because Huey made her a secretary. I told Huey, I said, "Huey, where's that Round Robin?" He said, "It's in a safe place." I said, "The heck it is. I want it in a very, very safe place. Not only for my own reasons, but for yours, because that's your life blood from now on." Jim Cawley (06:02): Now, tell me what the Round Robin was. I don't know what that is. Mr. Hughes (06:05): The Round Robin was a... I'd call it his, simply. It was a composition by somebody who now, we don't know who he was, but everybody's trying to claim it. Judge Perez of Plaquemines, he said he wrote it. Judge Orton said he wrote it. This judge and that judge said they wrote it. And various politicians all wrote it, but none of them wrote it, I don't suppose. I'd say Huey wrote it, myself. But anyway. Jim Cawley (06:40): It was a supportive, affirmative- Mr. Hughes (06:42): I'm going to tell you what it is. Jim Cawley (06:43): Okay. Mr. Hughes (06:43): It's nothing but a supportive, as you say, it supported his position as governor of Louisiana, and, of course, I will say, disrupted it entirely, the argument advanced by the other side, which is his enemies. They consisted of various people from Freeport and New Orleans, mostly, and the standard oil company. I was a bitterly against those kinds of people. I was bitterly against them. Not because I hated them or anything like that, but because of the poor... In Louisiana, we are rich now, compared to what we were in those days. Jim Cawley (07:16): And you felt like Huey Long was a good worker and you- Mr. Hughes (07:20): He was. Huey Long told me himself. He said, "Listen, I never go to bed before midnight." Which is true. "And I get up about sun up every morning. So I never spend over five hours in bed, at the most, out of the 24." I could give you a dozen experiences I've had with Huey, but I'm not going to do it. Jim Cawley (07:44): Okay. Mr. Hughes, we just got time for one more story. I wanted to ask you about the Spanish-American war. Mr. Hughes (07:50): Yeah. Well, about 1898, I believe the Spanish-American war was going on, and I believe, at that time, right after the Spanish-American war, Mr. Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, was elected president. All he did was ride up and down a hill, I understand, or down here at a San Juan, in [inaudible 00:08:11] Cuba. But anyway, I went down to the depot in Natchitoches, which was located, at that time, and all the time, on the railroad tracks, of course, but near the college. You could throw a baseball into the college grounds from where depot was situated. (08:27): While we were down there, I could see these boys kissing these girls. I was wondering, I was only six years old, because I was born in '92. This is about 1980, it might've been '97, it might've been '98. It might've been '98 and a half, but I don't remember the exact date. Do you understand? I remember very firmly and very well, we had no automobiles here, and I could safely walk the streets, or run the streets, if you want to say it, and when I got on that, we saw these boys kissing their girls. We saw the wives kissing their husbands good-bye. They left in all the glory of war. They came back very dejected looking, because they hadn't fought in a single battle and never left the United States, and they never left Florida. They got on there and some of them got sick. Got bitten by an ugly little mosquito. That's about all I can tell you about it. Jim Cawley (09:19): So old Natchitoches, Louisiana, had a part in the Spanish-American war? Mr. Hughes (09:22): Yes, sir. We had a whole troop in it. We also had a troop in every other war. Several in the civil war. I can tell you all about it, but I won't do that. Jim Cawley (09:33): Mr. Hughes, did you ever serve as an elected officer around here? Mr. Hughes (09:37): Yeah, I was elected from Red River and Natchitoches Parish, for four years in 1928 to 1932. Jim Cawley (09:45): What were you elected to? Mr. Hughes (09:45): I was elected to the state senate and I resigned immediately after my time was over. Jim Cawley (09:53): Did you ever have anything to do with the university while you were serving in Baton Rouge? Mr. Hughes (09:57): I graduated at LSU in 1913. I went to school first, at Holy Cross in New Orleans. I got my high school diploma there. I went from there on up to LSU, and from LSU I went down a Two Lane. I went to Harvard one year. I forgot about it. Jim Cawley (10:17): You were telling me about a story you had with Huey Long and the president of NSU. Mr. Hughes (10:23): Yeah. Jim Cawley (10:24): Would you tell us- Mr. Hughes (10:24): I thought I had. I don't know. Anyway. Yes. I believe I am responsible for [inaudible 00:10:33] being your president. Jim Cawley (10:33): How's that? Mr. Hughes (10:34): For this reason. When Huey suggested his name to me, I said, "[inaudible 00:10:41] would make a fine president." Huey said, "He hadn't got a degree." And I said, "Well, what do either of you got?" I knew he didn't have a degree. He says, "That's right. I haven't got a degree and I'm governor of this state." I said, "Well, can't you appoint him?" He says, "I sure will appoint him." That was the end of that. Jim Cawley (11:02): And that's how that happened. Mr. Hughes, we do appreciate visiting with you today.

Jim Cawley talks with H.L. Hughes about growing up in Natchitoches and being involved in law and politics in Natchitoches Parish.

February 22, 2024

24. Elouise Owens

Transcript

David Dollar (00:02): Hello, once again, and good morning. In case, you've just joined us this is David Dollar visiting the home of Ms. Elouise Owens today. Ms. Owens, we thank you for having us over in your home today and sharing some memories with us. Elouise Owens (00:12): I thank you for coming. David Dollar (00:13): Good. Why don't we start things off by you just giving us a little family background, where and when you were born. Elouise Owens (00:19): Well, I was born in [inaudible 00:00:20] Parish. David Dollar (00:21): Okay. Elouise Owens (00:22): 1915, November the 14th. David Dollar (00:23): All right. Elouise Owens (00:24): I'm 60 years old going on 61. David Dollar (00:27): That's right. Elouise Owens (00:28): And my family... I was raised down there below the airport, they call it the Fair Grounds now, but it used to be called Hickory Hill. David Dollar (00:36): Hickory Hill? Elouise Owens (00:36): That's right. David Dollar (00:38): That's a new one, I hadn't heard that [crosstalk 00:00:39]. Elouise Owens (00:39): Well, it was called Hickory Hill. And my father had a large family, which it was 14 of us, but we raised all of our food and vegetables and stuff. We had our own cows, our butter, we made our butter. We washed on [inaudible 00:00:53] boards. My mother used to make Lye soap, they call it. David Dollar (00:58): You remember how to make Lye soap? Elouise Owens (00:59): Yes, I do. I remember how to make Lye soap. David Dollar (01:01): How about telling me about right now? Elouise Owens (01:02): Well, you put your water and you take grease [inaudible 00:01:05] and you put it in the wash pot. David Dollar (01:08): What just regular bacon grease or something like that? Elouise Owens (01:08): Just any kind of grease. David Dollar (01:11): All right, just grease. Elouise Owens (01:12): And you put it in the wash [inaudible 00:01:14]. Then you put a flower around it and then you cook it. You put Lye in it and it's cooks into a jelly. Something like a gel. And then you set it up. And when it would get hard, like soup, you set it and then you cut like bars of soap. David Dollar (01:25): You just cut and you make the bars? Elouise Owens (01:27): Right and you cut your bars out. And also we had cows. We had mules. And horses and hogs and all that. We made our own bacon. And we had a thing you call a smoke house. David Dollar (01:39): Right. Elouise Owens (01:39): You used to put the meat in, hang it up in there and smoke it. My father used to salt it down and then he would take the salt and wash it off. And then he would put this brown sugar on it. And then he would hang it up, the hams and smoke the hams and smoke the bacon, right? And that's the way we live. We get our own corn to the meal, made our corn meal, and our grits. They had a man here on this land to the airport, they call him Mr. Recott. He had a corn grinder and we kids used to share all his corn and he would dig it up. Then he would grind so much in meal, and then he would make so much in grits. David Dollar (02:22): Grits is corn? I never knew that. Elouise Owens (02:23): Well it is. David Dollar (02:25): I've been eating grits all my life and I didn't know where it came from. Elouise Owens (02:27): Well it's the same thing. David Dollar (02:28): I'm glad you told me that. Elouise Owens (02:30): It's the same thing. And also we had our own [inaudible 00:02:33] and our own peanuts and popcorn. We raised all that sugar cane. Had another man down the road called Mr. Shepherd. He had... you know when you grind the cane and make the syrup. Grind the juice from the cane. They took the mule to it and the mule would go around and grind the juice. David Dollar (02:51): They had the mule hooked up to the wheel? Elouise Owens (02:56): That's right. The mule hooked up and go around and grind the juice for it. Then they get a big pan you put it on and they cook it down to the syrup. David Dollar (03:02): Right. Elouise Owens (03:03): And then they would get gallon buckets to put the syrup in. David Dollar (03:05): And you watched all this? Elouise Owens (03:08): I was big enough to help do something. [crosstalk 00:03:11]. David Dollar (03:08): Helping do it. Elouise Owens (03:10): Because we started the work early. All of us waked early at an early age. And I went to school at Rockford Baptist Church. It's down there now, but it's a new church. And I didn't get no further then sixth grade. And I can read and write pretty good. David Dollar (03:24): That sounds great. It's amazing that you had time enough to learn to read and write after all the stuff you've been telling me. [crosstalk 00:03:29] Elouise Owens (03:30): That's right. When I was back in school we had three months. We didn't get but three months. And just before I quit, I got about two years of this nine months school. David Dollar (03:38): Oh, yeah? Elouise Owens (03:38): That's right. But I went for the sixth grade and I can read and write very well. David Dollar (03:43): Well, that's good. I tell you what, let me interrupt you right here. Just for a second we're going to take a short little commercial and we'll be back to talk some more. Elouise Owens (03:50): Okay. David Dollar (03:51): Good. David Dollar visiting with Ms. Elouise Owens today. We'll be right back after this message from People's Bank, our sponsor. (04:06): Hello. Once again, in case you've just joined us. This is David Dollar visiting today in the home of Ms. Elouise Owens. You've got me tired already talking about all the things you all did when you were growing up. You said there were 14 children in the family? Elouise Owens (04:20): That's right. You see, I'm the only one my mother and father got, together. You see, my mother had three children and my father had nine when they got married. David Dollar (04:30): Right. Elouise Owens (04:30): And I come along. David Dollar (04:31): And there you were. Elouise Owens (04:37): There I was. David Dollar (04:37): You rounded it out. Elouise Owens (04:37): I summed it up. And so then in my time with all the girls, most them was grown and I had a bunch of boys to play with. David Dollar (04:43): How did y'all play? Elouise Owens (04:43): Well we played marbles. Shooting marbles. You know what marbles is? David Dollar (04:43): Yeah. Elouise Owens (04:46): We played shooting marbles. We played ball. We played hide and go seek. David Dollar (04:51): You were a pretty good marble shooter? Elouise Owens (04:53): Yeah. I used to beat them boys sometimes. I cheat on one, I beat them but cheated... David Dollar (04:57): I remember every time we ever let our little sisters play and they beat us, we never let them play with us anymore. Elouise Owens (05:06): They used to do me that, but I [inaudible 00:05:07]. David Dollar (05:06): Yeah. Elouise Owens (05:07): They used to [inaudible 00:05:08]. And we used to take a nickel or dime and pitch to them. Lagging. David Dollar (05:11): Lagging. Oh, yeah. I've been lagging before. Elouise Owens (05:13): I would win in the morning and then I would play no more. I'd go away for the day. David Dollar (05:17): You wouldn't give them a chance to get their money back, uh? Elouise Owens (05:19): No, a man used to pass us in the wagon selling can and stuff on the sun and I put my money up for the [inaudible 00:05:23]. David Dollar (05:23): There ya go. You had it. Elouise Owens (05:26): Yeah. But we had a good time. It had a bar right there in front of our house. It's called [inaudible 00:05:31]. They stopped it up though. I know you can't tell where the bar is because I can't tell where we used to live down there anymore. And during the winter time, my father used to keep his news. Everybody passed down a Timor, LayMor, the kind of cars they had. He pulled them out. [inaudible 00:05:48]. He put them out. (05:50): Then we, I have picked cotton for 50 cents a hundred. Pick cotton for 50 cents a hundred. My daddy used to let us go pick on the Fridays and Saturdays till 12, after out of his field would make our little chain. That way we get back a little bit. So if we had half the time back then we didn't have all what the people have now. But we live happy and we didn't have to go to the store for everything we used. David Dollar (06:16): You sound like you had everything anybody could ever want. Elouise Owens (06:17): We did. We lived a real happy life and we raised all our stuff mostly at home. Did most things. Our father would go to the store and buy sugar and coffee and things like that we couldn't raise. But all this other stuff, like the people who go buy grease. [inaudible 00:06:32]. Make our hogs fat. Yeah them are the good ole days. David Dollar (06:38): Let me ask you this. What do you think? What could you tell the young people up to date? Tell you what that last Saturday I just got married. What could you tell a young married couple today, growing up in all the times that we've got, all the hard stuff and the hard times that we've got, what could you give me? If you could to make me live and make those times good again? What do you think we're missing today? Elouise Owens (07:07): I think y'all missing a very happy time because now the people that have everything, they ain't happy as we was in my childhood. David Dollar (07:14): What's the difference? You know, like you said, we've got a lot more things. Elouise Owens (07:17): I know but... David Dollar (07:19): What's missing? Elouise Owens (07:20): Confusion I think in the world and from the children on... not as happy. You buy them bicycles. We never had a bike. We used to make things you call Tom Walkers. You know? David Dollar (07:30): No. Elouise Owens (07:30): We used to make them with cans. [Crosstalk 00:07:32] and me and my brothers we used to get on them with rope. Those were our horses. David Dollar (07:39): You call those Tom Walkers? Elouise Owens (07:40): Tom Walkers. And some of them used to make them with sticks, but they was too high for me. So I made mine with cans. David Dollar (07:45): Cans and string and you'd walk on them? [crosstalk 00:07:50] Elouise Owens (07:49): That's right. That's the kind of fun we use to have. David Dollar (07:52): So you think we need to get more simple? Elouise Owens (07:55): Right. David Dollar (07:55): We got too much junk in our lives. Elouise Owens (07:57): That's right. Exactly. They have... David Dollar (07:59): Gets us all confused. Elouise Owens (08:00): That's right. David Dollar (08:01): Get back to the simple things, we'd have a better time. Elouise Owens (08:04): The more they have, the more they want. And I don't think they're quite as happy as I was in my childhood. David Dollar (08:12): When I tell you what, this has been mighty interesting. Tell you what we try to do, just about out of time... We try to close up our program every day with what we call a closing memory. You know, if there's any one thing that stands out in your mind about when you were growing up. Elouise Owens (08:29): Yeah, I've got one. David Dollar (08:30): All right. Why don't you tell us... Elouise Owens (08:31): One time when that bar was full of water, me and my baby brother jumped in there and went swimming. And I liked the guy, John and my mother whipped me with the wet coveralls on. I had some [inaudible 00:08:41] and that's a good memory. David Dollar (08:42): You and your little brother out in the bar when you shouldn't have been? Elouise Owens (08:42): That's right. And I got a whipping with the wet coveralls on. David Dollar (08:54): Yeah and that's something you always remember. Elouise Owens (08:54): I'll always remember that and I got a good whipping with the wet coveralls on. People call them jumpsuits now but they were coveralls. David Dollar (09:04): We got a big fashion item now called jumpsuits [crosstalk 00:09:06] and you had them 50 years ago. Elouise Owens (09:08): That's right. Sure did. I tell them that by these long dresses, I wore that when I was a girl. They call them Maxis now but in those we called them frocks. The same thing, but it's a different name. David Dollar (09:20): And that's all you had then. Now you're all uptown and fancy if you wear all that. Elouise Owens (09:24): Sure is. I've got some of them now but I'd wear them when I was girl. David Dollar (09:24): That's right. Elouise Owens (09:30): And going back to the bonnet days, I got me a bonnet. I used to wear them when I was a child. You know, growing up. We never had hats, no more than sun hats. We had bonnets. David Dollar (09:37): Yeah. Well, Ms. Owens we sure thank you for sharing all this with us. You've helped me out. I found out what grits were. I've been eating them all my life, now I know what grits are now. Elouise Owens (09:49): Grits is corn. David Dollar (09:49): Great. I'm glad to know that. We thank you again for having us in your home. Elouise Owens (09:53): You're very welcome.

David Dollar talks with Elouise Owens about growing up in Natchitoches, working and playing with her 13 siblings.

February 6, 2024

23. Alonzo Plummer, Cont

Transcript

David Dollar (00:01):

Hello again. In case you just joined us. I'm David Dollar. We're going to visit this morning again with Mr. Alonzo Plummer. I think we're going to try to talk a little bit about education this morning. So Mr. Plummer, why don't you take it from there and do what you will with it?

Alonzo Plummer (00:14):

Oh, okay. Well, I'm going back to Nebo again.

David Dollar (00:14):

Good.

Alonzo Plummer (00:20):

There was a typical thing that happened that's probably... You wouldn't, most of you understand the sanitary facilities that had to do with that school, it was very simple and natural. The boys had the north side of the road and the girls, the south side in the woods. This except for the fact that most of them didn't have a creek to use for refrigeration purposes, this was a typical country school. I would say over the south, not just in Louisiana, but over the south. My mother and father realized, they were ambitious for us. And they realized that the facilities there were altogether inadequate. And they had read of this normal school at Natchitoches and decided to move to Natchitoches. So the family moved in 19 and three to 110 Casbury Street there in Natchitoches ... Normal Hill, as it was called at that time.

(01:57):

And as Louisiana state normal school didn't have one brick building on it. Every building was a wooden building. The two buildings that housed the classrooms and other educational facilities, one of them was about in the position that the old science building that burned down was in and the other just across the driveway from it was known as a model school. And that model school took in from the beginners up to oh, about seventh or eighth grade. And that was the only school below the normal level, except for a short time, Mr. Greeno ran a private school on... In the position that's now occupied by the parking lot that is provided by the police jury here in this parish.

David Dollar (03:26):

Right? Right.

Alonzo Plummer (03:31):

I came to school here, entered the third grade with a miss Henrietta Lewis as teacher. I think all of us loved Ms. Lewis. She was a fine person. I was in school here for then continuously for five years. We had this advantage and the organization and the school was such that it was in four months terms and there were three, four months terms in a year. And we could go to school 12 months in the year. Well, a part of the time I did that. And the part of the time I worked during the summer, even as a child.

David Dollar (04:34):

This allowed the children to help their parents then doing crops and things like that during the rotation series.

Alonzo Plummer (04:42):

My family lived here in Natchitoches. The crop situation didn't come into the picture for us, but it.

David Dollar (04:50):

It did for some others, then.

Alonzo Plummer (04:52):

It did for some of the people. However, I'll say that to emphasize the fact that most of the schools outside of the centers, the wealthier centers of population, or these little one room schools there was at the time and it existed for a number of years after we came here in 19 and three, there was a school that's now on very near where the valley electric company is. That close end operated a one room.

David Dollar (05:39):

Well I'll be darned. Mr. Plummer, let me interrupt you right here. We've got to take a commercial break right now. A little word from our sponsors, the folks at People's Bank and Trust Company.

(05:56):

In case you just joined us. This is David dollar. We're visiting this morning again with Mr. Alonzo Plummer on memories. Mr. Plummer, we've been talking a little bit about education. Why don't we skip just a few years after you left the normal school here, when you yourself began teaching. Why don't you start there with it?

Alonzo Plummer (06:15):

Well, that was [inaudible 00:06:17] considerably in 19 and eight at the mature age of 15, I was a teacher in one of those little one room schools down close to Bichico in what was then St. Landry Parish. It's now Evangeline Parish. I began the process then, the next year I didn't go to school. And then the following year during the summer, I had ... I happened to be in one of the classes taught by Mr. D.G. Lonsberry, who was superintendent of schools in east Louisiana Parish. Well, the state had become more involved in public education, and they were promoting consolidation of these country schools. So he offered me the principalship of the Bluff Creek Consolidated School in east Louisiana Parish.

David Dollar (07:28):

And how old were you at this time?

Alonzo Plummer (07:31):

I was 17 at that time.

David Dollar (07:34):

17 and a principal?

Alonzo Plummer (07:34):

That's right.

David Dollar (07:35):

My goodness.

Alonzo Plummer (07:36):

And the faculty, three besides myself, the oldest one of them was 19. And they had come up somewhat in the same fashion that I had.

David Dollar (07:57):

What was one of the reasons that the state was pushing for this consolidated school now?

Alonzo Plummer (08:04):

Well, there were many reasons people could readily see that the one room school was not the answer. The thing that retarded that thing the most was roads and transportation.

David Dollar (08:22):

Transportation. I can understand that.

Alonzo Plummer (08:25):

And they were very, very ... well, in fact, no improved roads, you might say, in the state. In fact, right here in Natchitoches Parish. When I came to Natchitoches there was not an improved road running into Natchitoches. Not a one. I don't mean even a gravel road.

David Dollar (08:45):

Even with the college here?

Alonzo Plummer (08:46):

That's right.

David Dollar (08:48):

Not a road? My goodness.

Alonzo Plummer (08:49):

Not a one. And the original pavement on Front Street was going on, and that was the first piece of pavement in the city of Natchitoches.

David Dollar (09:00):

My goodness.

Alonzo Plummer (09:00):

That was in 19 and three.

David Dollar (09:03):

So you were in about 19... What? Eight or 10 or so? Something like that. You were teaching as well as coming back to normal here, working on your degree, is that true?

Alonzo Plummer (09:15):

Well, we didn't think about degrees then the old normal was not a college and that is it. Wasn't a four year college that offered a degree. But I was alternating teaching ...

David Dollar (09:30):

An education, yourself? Being a teacher and a student and a principal all at the same time?

Alonzo Plummer (09:33):

Yeah, that's right. Going on.

David Dollar (09:35):

That's pretty unique. Let me interrupt you one more time for a commercial message from our sponsors this morning, People's Bank and Trust Company. We'll be right back.

(09:47):

Mr. Plummer. We like to close our programs with a closing memory. If you've got something you can share with us, why don't you do that at this time?

Alonzo Plummer (09:54):

This sticks in my memory, I don't know that it's significant from any very ... a great point of view, but I remember a student who felt like always that he was being picked on. And he was a regular problem. The boys wanted to be nice to him, but, you know, they would pick at him a little. And I remember one incident, Victor connected with it. He had got him a new top coat. Very proud of it. And in coming downstairs for a recess period, the boys, a number of them had taken their finger and mark... that is put pressure up and down his back. And the others would say, well, now I wouldn't mark that boy up like that. I just wouldn't ruin his coat by putting praying marks all over it. So he came in tears to me, down in the office telling that tale.

(11:16):

And I said, well, and he was sincere in it. I said, now that's pretty bad, but are you sure? I had seen the back of his coat and he had. Are you sure that they did that? Oh, yes. I sure. Well, I had him take off his coat and hanging up on the [inaudible 00:11:39] there in the office was back toward him. And he saw it. Well, he just liked to fainted.

David Dollar (11:47):

Cause he ...

Alonzo Plummer (11:48):

And he had... it brought the whole picture to him about the type of thing that he had been doing that caused him not to get along well with people.

David Dollar (12:00):

Well, I...

Alonzo Plummer (12:02):

And he was pretty much of a changed person.

David Dollar (12:05):

Well, that's great. Things are not always what we think they are. Are they?

Alonzo Plummer (12:09):

They sure are.

David Dollar (12:10):

So that's a lesson that we all could learn. We'd like to, to thank you, Mr. Plummer for joining us again today on Memories. If you folks enjoyed the show today, if you were listening, why don't you let the folks at People's Bank know about it?

David Dollar continues his conversation with Alonzo Plummer.

January 25, 2024

22. Alonzo Plummer

Transcript

David Dollar (00:01): Hi. In case you just joined us, this is David Dollar. We're going to visit this morning with Mr. Alonzo Plummer of Natchitoches on Memories. Mr. Plummer, why don't you start things off, just tell us a little bit about yourself?

Alonzo Plummer (00:13): Well, to begin with my father, Allen Leroy Plummer, was a Civil War veteran. My mother was Nora Squyres. They married when he was 40 and she 20. There are four of us of the family. This was at Summerville. I was born at Summerville, Louisiana in 1893. In 1896, my family moved to the community of Nebo near Catahoula Lake over in what is now La Salle parish.

Alonzo Plummer (01:25): The home in which we moved was quite a contrast from what we had previously lived in. It had begun with a log house and been repaired and redone until you would hardly recognize what it was, but it turned out to be a rather comfortable place. The big draw back there was mosquitoes. We had to sleep under bars, that is nets that were to keep the mosquitoes out. I had malaria at the time.

Alonzo Plummer (02:12): My father was principally engaged, at that time, in raising cows. He had previously been a teacher in one room schools over the area. The ill health of my mother had caused him to take up an occupation where you could stay closer home, and he left that. At Nebo I went to school in a little one room school. It was a church house, really. Most of the rural schools in the area, I might say in the whole area of the South, rural schools were in church houses.

Alonzo Plummer (03:09): In the South there was very little tax money left to look out for either schools or roads in this state due to the fact that Louisiana was one of the few states that didn't repudiate the Civil War debt, a big part of which was brought on by the carpet bagger regime in Louisiana and for years after the war. It's been in recent years. I remember the campaign of one Jared Y. Sanders for governor of Louisiana in which he had... One of the big issues of his campaign was to pay the debt. Pay the debt and get it over.

David Dollar (04:10): Get it behind us.

Alonzo Plummer (04:12): Yeah, get it behind us.

David Dollar (04:12): Just a matter of curiosity, was he elected?

Alonzo Plummer (04:16): Yes, he was elected.

David Dollar (04:16): He was? That was before my time a little bit I'm afraid.

Alonzo Plummer (04:19): Yeah, he was elected.

David Dollar (04:21): Well, I'll be.

Alonzo Plummer (04:25): Something about the school. Our school was unique in one respect, and that was in what we might call now refrigeration. We didn't see it was refrigeration then, but to a degree it was refrigeration. A very beautiful cold water, clear spring creek passed right by the door. Most of the children, in fact, I think all of us took milk to school. We put it in bottles, put a string around the bottle and put it around our necks as a convenience to carry it. When we got to the school house we tied it to a root in a tree next to the creek and it stayed in there and it was nice and fresh.

David Dollar (05:33): It stayed real cold, huh?

Alonzo Plummer (05:36): It stayed nice and fresh. So, we had a pretty good lunch.

Alonzo Plummer (05:42): I'll give you a few things with reference to the activities within the school. One of the things, a little incident that illustrates something of what was going on happened to me. We were studying geography, and the geographies at that time were illustrated and then just questions asked. For instance, land forms. They asked what was an island? And what was an isthmus? And so on. We stood up, most of us barefooted, and you can imagine a line of people standing up toeing a crack across the building and standing up there just as erect as we could be. The teacher asked those questions as they were in that book and we were supposed to answer them verbatim according to what was in the book.

Alonzo Plummer (07:13): Well, a question came to me as to what was an island? Well, all those words just flat wouldn't come to me. And I said, "Well, an island is a small body of land with water all around it." Well that wasn't acceptable at all. I passed it on to the next person and she knew it verbatim and she turned me down. We had a turning down process of going to the head and so on and standing the foot. So I got turned down on that, and the next thing that came around to me was, what was a continent? My answer was that it was a large body of land that had water all around it. Or almost all around it, but that wasn't any good. It was large body of land surrounded by, or almost surrounded by water. That was the wording. Well, I was turned down again and that meant that I spent my recess time-

David Dollar (08:43): Studying geography [crosstalk 00:08:45].

Alonzo Plummer (08:44): Studying geography. But the humiliation of it was what really got me because it didn't take me any time. I remembered whoever turned me down, when they gave the right direction-

David Dollar (09:05): Then you knew the answer [crosstalk 00:09:06].

Alonzo Plummer (09:06): I knew the answer already.

David Dollar (09:10): Just a little bit late. I tell you what, Mr. Plummer, I don't want to turn you down or anything, but what I want do is interrupt right now for a commercial message from the folks that are bringing you Memories this morning, People's Bank & Trust Company. We'll be right back.

David Dollar (09:27): This is David Dollar, again, on Memories. In case you just joined us, we're visiting this morning with Mr. Alonzo Plummer. Mr. Plummer, you mentioned something. When we were talking earlier, you seemed to be very knowledgeable about the Civil War. Why don't you tell us a little bit about some of your vested interest in the Civil War, and some things that went on when you were living over in Mansfield?

Alonzo Plummer (09:49): Well, my people on both sides were very much involved in the Civil War. My father fought during the Civil War and the whole period through. He was discharged. I say discharged. They didn't give him a discharge. They gave him a parole at Vicksburg. No, at Mansfield, rather. Pardon me, at Mansfield in 1865. He had formerly been a member of Company A, 17th Louisiana Infantry. That organization was captured at Vicksburg when Vicksburg fell. But he didn't go in. He slipped out, got on a log on the Mississippi River and floated down to where he could get over in Louisiana, and he joined General Taylor's forces on the west side of the Mississippi River. That brought him to the Battle of Mansfield. Then in 1960, I became superintendent of the Mansfield Battle Park and Museum. The battle park was a part of the old battleground, and the museum contained relics of the battle and other Civil War relics. We didn't just stick to the things that were used at Mansfield.

David Dollar (12:06): But the whole war, yeah.

Alonzo Plummer (12:07): But the whole war.

David Dollar (12:08): So they had somebody that was almost as good as firsthand, at least secondhand, having you there at the museum about that, because your own father was right there in that very battle.

Alonzo Plummer (12:20): That's right. And I'll mention this. Before any marker or anything had ever been put up there, I passed along that road with him, and I didn't know anything about it then. I didn't know anything about even a battle having been fought right there. He looked around there and he said, "Well," he said, "Right here is where Dick Taylor whipped the hell out of Banks." And that was his-

David Dollar (12:58): That was it.

Alonzo Plummer (12:58): That was it.

David Dollar (12:58): And he knew the spot. Well, Mr. Plummer, let me interrupt you one more time. We need to take one more short commercial break. We'll be right back on Memories this morning with Mr. Alonzo Plummer.

David Dollar (13:10): Mr. Plummer, we like to close our program every week by having what we call a closing memory. If you've got something you'd like to share with us, why don't you go ahead now.

Alonzo Plummer (13:19): Well, the thing that I would like to share with you is the most important decision of my life. In 19 and 16, I met Miss Ala Lee Joyce. In May of 19 and 17, I had had, my mother had been ill and I'd been in close attendance with her, and I didn't have much chance to go see anybody. But anyway, we worked our courtship along, and in May of 1916, 1917 rather, in May of 1917, we decided to make a life partnership under a shade tree out in front of their home at Campti.

David Dollar (14:21): Well, I think that's a very fitting closing memory for our program. Thank you for sharing it with us. Mr. Alonzo Plummer was with us this morning on Memories.

Alonzo Plummer speaks about growing up in Natchitoches and his interest in the Civil War

January 11, 2024

21. Ada Rachal

Transcript

David Dollar: Hello again, David Dollar, this morning, visiting all memories with Ms. Ada Rachal. Ms. Rachal, we thank you for joining us today. Why don't we start things off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and your family and some history and things. Ada Rachal: Thank you. David Dollar: Okay. Ada Rachal: My father was named Nester Greeter, either your own layer styles, and they had quite a big family. They married, they lived together until death, for around 60 some years. David Dollar: Oh goodness. Where were they living at the time? In other words where- Ada Rachal: Right about in this neighborhood. Never did move far away until later. David Dollar: Right around Shady Grove, huh? Ada Rachal: Around Shady Grove, uh-huh (affirmative). He reared a big family. My mother was the mother of 18 children. David Dollar: Ooh, goodness. Ada Rachal: Five sets twins. David Dollar: Five sets of twins. Ada Rachal: Five sets of twins and four sets of- David Dollar: My goodness. Ada Rachal: Four sets of twins in succession. David Dollar: I can't believe that. Ada Rachal: It's real, though. It's real. David Dollar: Goodness gracious. Ada Rachal: Five sets of twins. And she had 18 children. And I'm thankful to say that reared, those children, and none of us are that in no serious trouble, and never had to go to jail. David Dollar: My goodness. Just by odds alone, out of 18 people, you could just about say, one of them at least, was going to get into some kind of trouble. Ada Rachal: That's right. David Dollar: But y'all managed to stay out of it. Well that's good. Ada Rachal: I always said I loved my daddy. I loved both of them. I love my daddy. He was very interested in children learning to read the Bible. He couldn't read other books. But the Bible, he could really read it. And he had a big dining table, he'll sit with us around the table two or three times a week, and how he got all the testaments he had, and the Bible story books, I don't know how he got them, but he had them. And he was sitting with us around the table and have us all read with him. Learning how to read the Bible. And he would explain it to us. Made a pretty good living, or some may call it a hard time now what we went through, but we all appreciated the things that our parent doing to us. David Dollar: Oh I bet so. Ada Rachal: And grow the nice crop, and planted peas and corn, and everything. David Dollar: What all were they growing then? Just things for, like vegetables or doing cotton too? Ada Rachal: Cotton, too. Big, big cotton crops. And we worked in the field. I learned to use every plow the boy use. David Dollar: Oh goodness. Ada Rachal: I plowed along with the boys. David Dollar: So there wasn't that much difference between the children there. Ada Rachal: It wasn't. The girls and the boys worked together. David Dollar: Not boys doing this and girls doing that, you did whatever needed to be done. Ada Rachal: You did whatever they done. Cut wood whole, pick cotton, plow, do all of those things. David Dollar: Goodness gracious. Ada Rachal: And I loved it. My mother was very conscious about seeing that we had a plenty to eat, regardless of what it was. If it was nothing but peas and bread. David Dollar: There's going to be enough of it there. Ada Rachal: Plenty of that. David Dollar: Right. Ada Rachal: And she was very careful in dealing with the children, wouldn't just treat one. She was a good seamstress. She could sew, make clothes on her fingers and do things like that. But the real thing that I loved to do was to go to school whenever I could, whenever that we had school. We didn't have but three months of school. David Dollar: Oh yeah? Ada Rachal: Uh-huh (affirmative). David Dollar: When did you have school? How old were you when you first started? Ada Rachal: I was six years old. David Dollar: Six, okay. Ada Rachal: I was six, mm-hmmm. David Dollar: And where was the school? Here in the community? Ada Rachal: Here in the community. Up there around [inaudible 00:03:38]. And we go to school. We go from old houses where it wasn't nobody living in. And we'd have school in a old house and in the church house. David Dollar: What about the teacher? Where did he or she come from? Ada Rachal: Oh, well maybe out of town, somewhere like that. David Dollar: I know I've heard, talked to several folks around here and other places, too, how the parents would have to get together and get up the money to hire the teachers.

Ada Rachal: That's right. Sometimes. So we have public school. If it's got to be three months and if their parents seeing that they need children back in the crops, they would take them back in the crop. Maybe one of the trustees go in and talk with the school board member and tell them that they the need the children back in school, call it the vines and weed growing up in the corn and need to week it out. David Dollar: So they kind of worked with the teacher and the school board, too. Ada Rachal: Oh, they did. They did. We worked together.

David Dollar: Well that's good. Ada Rachal: We went to school and I did love to go to school. I learned many songs in school. David Dollar: Oh yeah, like to sing? Ada Rachal: Just like to sing. We've had many different recreations of concerts, you know, have concerts, some called drill. David Dollar: Now wait. Tell me about these concerts. Do you remember any, you know, really well that you could kind of tell me about or tell all of them?

Ada Rachal: So yeah. See we'd have a different...we'd have bloom drills in the concert or you the band drill. Or sometimes we have a flag drill and representing the United States. We'd have a flag drill. David Dollar: What did you do in these concerts and drills? Ada Rachal: Well, we'd go around in circles and go round when [inaudible 00:05:27] come in, he'd make it very beautiful. Look like it was very following. You know, you're going around. David Dollar: Kind of marching around. Ada Rachal: Kind of marching around. David Dollar: Yeah. Ada Rachal: Some go one way, some go, then they meet and get together and go around again. It was beautiful. David Dollar: Who drew all these together? Who put them together? Ada Rachal: The teacher. David Dollar: The teacher did. Well, my goodness. Kind of like the marching bands today, like at football games. Ada Rachal: That's right, that's right. Something like that. David Dollar: So y'all were doing that, huh? Ada Rachal: That's right, we were doing that, in fact sometimes I look at it now I say, "Oh, we used to do something like that." But wasn't using decent instruments at that time, we'd be singing. We didn't have no band and nothing to play. But we would sing and keep music with that way. You know, it makes me very instrumental, and I love that. And I still have some poems that I still remember, that I said when I was going to school. David Dollar: Can you remember one you can tell us right now? You remember? Why don't you do that? Ada Rachal: After school and I got married when I was 17 years old. And I had done said this speech before. And so, "I know a wee couple that live in a tree, and in they high branches, their home you could see. The bright summer came, and the bright summer went. Their [inaudible 00:06:36] gone, but they never paid rent. The parlor, whose lined, it was the softest of wool. That kitchen was warm, and their pantry was full. Three little babes peeped out at the skies, you never saw darlings so pretty and shy. When winter came on with his frost and his snow, they cared not a bit if they heard the wind blow. All wrapped in fur they all lie down to sleep, but always spring how the bright eyes will peep." David Dollar: Oh yeah. Well that is might good. When did you learn that? Ada Rachal: Oh, I learned that when I was about 15 years old. David Dollar: Goodness. You've got quite a memory there. Ada Rachal: Oh, about 15 years old or whatever would go on in school, I would kind of keep it in mind and then songs I kept them wrote down, On the Blue Ridge Mountain of Virginia, Come on Nancy and Put Your Best Dress On. And another one, let's see, it's I Have a Friend Far Away, Far Away. David Dollar: Just all of them. You really enjoyed all of that. Ada Rachal: Mandalay, Mandalay. Yes, I enjoyed all that. I rehearsed it very much after I was married. David Dollar: I'll tell you what we need to take a short commercial break right here. We'll be right back visiting with Ms. Ada, Rachal this morning, right after our message from People's Bank and Trust Company, our sponsor. ----------------------- Hello, once again, in case you've just joined us David Dollar, today down in Shady Grove, visiting with Ms. Ada Rachal. Ms. Rachal, we've been talking about school and work and family, and all that. I'd like to ask you a little bit more about the family. Now, when was it that you were born and how did, how are you age-wise in relations to your brother and sisters, all 18 of them or 17 others, I guess?

Ada Rachal: Well I was born in March 17, 1898. David Dollar: 1898, okay. Ada Rachal: 1898. And it was about five older than me. And I was a twin, my twin is still living. He's living in San Francisco. David Dollar: Well I'll be. Ada Rachal: His name is Lee [inaudible 00:08:49]. David Dollar: I see. Ada Rachal: And we was a set of twins. Five sets. And I was one of them. David Dollar: So you had all these twins. Was it very much trouble for your mother or for you keeping up with twins, aren't two new babies a lot harder to keep up with than one new baby? Ada Rachal: It didn't seem like it was hard because always some older. It's about three or four was older than the first set of twins. Then we would take care of the baby- David Dollar: So your mom always had help. Ada Rachal: Had help. We would take care of them. And after I grew , around nine or 11 years old, well, that was my job taking care of the babies, too. And then cook and feed the babies and cook for my father and mother while he was at work. David Dollar: So you're an old hand- Ada Rachal: I'm an old hand. David Dollar: At keeping up with children and keeping house, and- Ada Rachal: Then I did midwife work for about 41 years. David Dollar: Oh really? Ada Rachal: I did. David Dollar: Right around here? Ada Rachal: I delivered many babies around here, [inaudible 00:09:42]. David Dollar: Well, I'll be. Ada Rachal: I started working when I was 29 years old and I quit when I was 70. David Dollar: You had practice doing that, too, huh? Ada Rachal: It was just a gift God gave me. And then I had a book that I'd read and my mother a doctor book called A Family Book, and I read that book and learned how to do what it says how to treat them all, and they want to do. And I went about that. After going into the work, I got quite a bit of experience, and working with doctors, too, when they had to call the doctor in the home. And I worked right along with him. Man didn't need to tell me- David Dollar: Learned with him and help him. Ada Rachal: I worked so diligently with that, and loved the job so well to Dr. Reed, or from [inaudible 00:10:23] she says now, but he's wanted me to leave my work from home and follow him. Turned around said, "I'd make a registered nurse out of you." David Dollar: My goodness. Ada Rachal: And I was anxious to, but [inaudible 00:10:32] said, "No, I married you to take care of me and my business." So that's why I didn't go into that. [crosstalk 00:10:41]. David Dollar: Well that sure is interesting. Ada Rachal: I worked until I was 70. David Dollar: And without the up-to-date hospitals and transportation service we've got today, folks like you are very much needed in communities not real close to big hospitals like in [inaudible 00:10:55]. Lady had to have a baby, she couldn't get in the wagon and head for [inaudible 00:11:00]. Ada Rachal: Well at my age I would be very interested in helping out anywhere now. I loved it. I felt like that was my calling. David Dollar: I bet you help. A lot of people felt that was your calling to help them out and their babies. Ada Rachal: I'm sure I delivered around 500 babies. David Dollar: Oh goodness. That is something. Ms. Rachal, we're just about out of time Ada Rachal: And then in two or three families, I delivered all of their babies. David Dollar: The whole family, huh? Ada Rachal: They have 10 or 11 kids, and I delivered all of them. David Dollar: And you were there for all of them. Ada Rachal: That's right. David Dollar: Oh, goodness. Again, we're just about out of time. Let me ask you for your closing memory that you wanted me to remind you about your grandma. Why don't you tell us about that? Ada Rachal: Oh yes, I'll be glad to tell that. My grandmother, she was very good Christian woman. And she said God revealed to her that she had only five more years to live. Well she told that after the death of one of her grandchildren and she say, "Well, I got five more years to live." Said, "It has been revealed to me that I live five more years." And sure enough, at five years she passed. She had cancer. She had about five cancers, and she lived two years off and on, on the bed. And right up to the time she say she would leave us when she did. David Dollar: She knew what was going on. Ada Rachal: Yeah, she knew what was going on. I said, a person with a Christian experience, God do reveal things to them. And when we live close to Him, He's always with us and He will give us what to know, what He want us to do, and what's going to happen. David Dollar: Well, amen. That's a very fine closing memory and the whole visit this morning has been quite nice. And we thank you for sharing all this with us today. Ada Rachal: Yeah. Thank you. David Dollar: Okay.

Ada Rachal talks about growing up in Natchitoches including her experiences with family, work, and school.

January 23, 2023

20. Ed Harper

Transcript

Jim Colley: This is Jim [Colley 00:00:03], and today we're visiting on Memories with Mr. Ed Harper. And we'll be talking with Mr. Harper about his memories after this message from People's Bank & Trust. Mr. Harper, we're glad to welcome you to the Memories program, and we look forward to talking with you about some things. Ed Harper: I don't mind talking to y'all. Anything I know, I'll be glad to talk to you. Jim Colley: Well, I'm glad to hear that. You've been out here an awful long time. Ed Harper: Oh, 86 years. Jim Colley: That's an awful long time. Ed Harper: I'll soon be 87. Jim Colley: Going on 87. Ed Harper: January the first. Jim Colley: Happy birthday, in advance. We were talking just a few minutes ago about what it was like during Prohibition out here. Do you remember Prohibition in Louisiana? Ed Harper: Well, I'll tell you. Really they called it Prohibition. You couldn't go to a saloon and buy it, but you could go anywhere else, nearly, you wanted to and find it. In Louisiana and Arkansas both. You could find that stuff just anywhere if you'd keep your mouth shut. Jim Colley: No problem. Ed Harper: No problem at all, if you just keep your mouth shut, and tend to your own business, not tell on them, you can get whiskey anywhere, nearly. Jim Colley: Well, where'd you have to go to get it? Ed Harper: I'd go to them bootleggers. Jim Colley: Where did they get it? Ed Harper: They made a lot of it, most of it. Course there were some now ... Well now, back in the areas, there was some wet areas and dry areas. And I lived in the dry area one time, and there's an old boy, he'd drive his team, they didn't have trucks, and he'd take a wagon and go over to Monroe and buy it by the wagon load and bring it over. I want to tell you, one time, and I'm going to tell you this. Now, this here sheriff's dead or I wouldn't tell it. A friend of mine, here, was going out there to get us a quart. And he come by the sheriff. He knowed where he was going, he says, "Tell him to send me a quart." We just had us a horse and buggy. That's all we had. We were going right out there, and he got over there, and that old boy knew him. And he went out there, and he come [inaudible 00:02:06] hen. He went out where had a lot of hen nests. Had built upside of a wall, and [inaudible 00:02:13] pulling them quarts out from them hen nests. Had it hid out there. I told him I wanted to get some of them chickens, that laid them quarts. But that was [inaudible 00:02:23] we carried that sheriff, that next day. [inaudible 00:02:26] high sheriff, carried him back his quart of liquor. And after they got it dry all over, why they'd run it out of Arkansas, and a lot of them made it. I had some friends up there that made liquor all the time. And they'd make them out in the woods. Most of it, what we bought around Haynesville and Homer, and they was run out of Arkansas. Jim Colley: That's where the big stills were. Okay. Ed Harper: Yeah. That's where they made it up there. They had their big stills up there. And they really knowed how to make it, too. Jim Colley: Was that as good as stuff you get nowadays? Ed Harper: I'm going to frankly tell you, I believe some of it was better. Some of it was aged better. They aged it a little better. But some wasn't. Just like anything else. You can get good, and you can get bad. Jim Colley: But you never had any problem with it? Ed Harper: No, I knowed where to go to get it, and they knowed what kind I wanted, and so they always had that. And if it wasn't no good, they told me. Jim Colley: So it was a matter of knowing who to trust, and who to believe. Ed Harper: That's like everything else. Just like I imagine you doing trading at the store. You got a regular store you do most of your business with, and that's the way we had. We had our pet bootlegger, and we'd always go to him. Jim Colley: Friend of the family. Ed Harper: Yeah, that's right. Jim Colley: I see. Ed Harper: In other words, he knew we'd keep our mouths shut, see? Jim Colley: Apparently, the law wasn't much trouble for them. Ed Harper: Boy, some of them they'd get after some, but they had their pets just like everybody else. I know that sheriff did. I know that. That old boy, we give him that quart of liquor, you know. You'd buy it in barrels, you see, in wood barrels, and we'd come out there and bottle it, get the bottles and bottle it. That barrel stuff, it's [inaudible 00:04:14] was better after you bottled it. I don't know. But we could get liquor anywhere we wanted to [inaudible 00:04:22]. Jim Colley: I can understand that. Mr. Harper we're going to have to take a break, and hear a word from our sponsors, People's Bank and Trust. But we'll be right back. We're talking on Memories with Mr. Ed Harper. And we've just finished talking about Prohibition. I'd like to ask you about another part of life, that was building houses, and old mud chimneys and things. How did you build a mud chimney, or a dirt chimney? Ed Harper: I'd first cut a hole in the house, where they fit for the fireplace [inaudible 00:04:57]. Like they would for a brick chimney. They done that part just like they do today. They left the opening there. And then they set four wooden posts up, and they'd tie them together with pieces of wood. They'd round it up in auger holes, and pass them together. And they'd get out there and dig them up a bunch of clay, and mix it up with straw. And if they could, they usually use crabgrass for straw, dead. And they made what they called [inaudible 00:05:31], and they'd throw them up there, and they'd drop them sticks all up with that clay. They'd just put them up there, and bend them over. Just like you're just going that way. And they put it all up side of that post. Where the [inaudible 00:05:47] part could catch the post [inaudible 00:05:49]. And they made the backs and the jambs, just like they did the brick. Now, I think that's where they got the pattern of the brick [inaudible 00:06:00]. And they would draw just as good as any chimney you ever seen. Now, the only thing about it, that power in there enough, that kept all the [inaudible 00:06:15] out of the posts, and they'd last for a long, long time. I don't know how long. But I never know one to fall down. We never did stay that long in the place. Jim Colley: Your family moved around quite a bit? Ed Harper: My father was always buying and selling place. He'd only half [inaudible 00:06:33]. He'd sell and buy, and move about. Jim Colley: How many people were there in your family? Ed Harper: Let's see. There was ... I lost baby brother and the other one. Then I lost one in 1919. And that left me and one boy, and five sisters. So I might as well say that there was about eight of us grown, growed up. Jim Colley: That was quite a few folks to move around. Ed Harper: Yeah. But we moved them. There's not nothing to do, but haul them in the wagon. Jim Colley: You didn't have a car? Ed Harper: No. We didn't have a truck. Dad never did own a truck. Never owned a car. Jim Colley: He got around in a wagon? Ed Harper: Either that or horse and a buggy. He had a buggy. Jim Colley: How did your mother cook for that large family? Ed Harper: That was easy. She had that big old chimney there, and she'd put that turnip greens, and mustard, and all that stuff that she boiled. They had a rod run across that, over the head, above the fire in there. And she'd hang them things, maybe have two or three pots of them on there. And she'd put them under there, and build a fire under them pots, they'd just hang up there and boil, just like everything. When they'd make bread, they had a great big old skillet. They had big ones and little ones. They had a big old skillet, just like that, and it had legs on it, down there. And they'd put [inaudible 00:07:59] fire under there. And they'd use ash wood if they could get it. And she'd sit that skillet on there, and then put that bread, or biscuit, or whatever she was making in there, and had a lid went over there, just stir it up, and she'd put fire all on top of that thing. Then she had a rod of a thing, she'd hook that lid, had a hook on top of it, she'd hook that and raise that up, and [inaudible 00:08:24] them stuff, just ... When it got done, she'd take her out. You understand what I'm talking about? Just like you had something on top of the lid, just pick it up there, and she'd look in there, and set [inaudible 00:08:33]. Jim Colley: So cooking wasn't much problem? Ed Harper: Oh no, we had about ... Shoot, there was one time there we had four or five hired hands there all the time, and we'd cook for them. Of course, I had a sister big enough to help mother. But they cooked a great big old pot full of the thing. I expect it hold two and a half three gallons. I don't know. It was about that big around, and that hot. I mean, when they cooked full of stuff, they had [inaudible 00:08:57]. Jim Colley: Mr. Harper, I hate to cut this off, but we're almost at the end of our time. We're glad you came. We appreciate you sharing your memories with us. They mean a lot to us. Ed Harper: Well, I hope [inaudible 00:09:07]. Jim Colley: I'm sure you did.

Ed Harper: Mr. Harper remembers the Prohibition era, and getting his alcohol from bootleggers. He also remembers how to build mud chimneys.

January 16, 2023

19. E.L. Roge

Transcript

David Dollar: Good morning. We're glad you've joined us for Memories today. David Dollar. I'm down the river visiting... I'm going to visit in just a few minutes with Mr. E.L. Roge, and we'll be back to start our program right after this message from our sponsor People's Bank and Trust Company. Hello, once again, in case you're just joining us, this is David Dollar down Cane River, visiting with Mr. E.L Roge. Mr. Roge, we thank you for having us in your home today and sharing memories with us. E.L. Roge: Well, I'm glad to have you in my home. And I hope I can be of some assistance to you. David Dollar: I'm sure you will. We like to start things off by talking about things that you remember earliest growing up. I'm sure you don't remember about being born and all that, but let's start about then, when and where you were born, and some things like a little family background and all. E.L. Roge: Well, I'll tell you I was born about 300 yards from where I live right now. My father owned the farm, and we lived on a farm there, and I was raised on the farm. Spent the biggest part of my life on the farm excepting about 20 years that I was off from home doing a lot of work after I grew up, but otherwise I've spent practically all my time- David Dollar: When were you born? What time was this? Which E.L. Roge: Year I was born in 1896. David Dollar: '96. E.L. Roge: The month before last I passed my 80th birthday. David Dollar: Okay. Sounds good. Congratulations on making those 80 years. E.L. Roge: Well, thank you. David Dollar: So your dad and your folks were farming here down Cane River, doing pretty much the same life that you've been doing, huh? E.L. Roge: Yeah, they did it in quite a bit different ways than what we do it now. In fact, I'm retired now. I don't farm, but the method of farming has changed quite a bit from then until now. David Dollar: Why don't we talk about that a little bit? What are some things that your dad did that you have come to see change or actually been a part of the change in farming methods now? E.L. Roge: Actually it's changed in a lots of different ways, but what you notice more so than anything else, when my father was farming, since I can first remember, that it was in the horse and mule days. They'd hook up one horse and maybe a pair of horses to a plow, they call it a turning plow, and break up the land, and they had some other small tool to pull by one animal, horse or mule, and they would use that. But they didn't have any mechanical planning, farming at all during that period of time. Everything was done the hard way, and it looked like the slowest way in the world. You'd plow all day long, and maybe you wouldn't get over seven acres of plowing with a pair of mules or horses. But now they have a mechanical for me. And these are implements they have now, they get over quite a few acres in a days time. I went back on the little river here about a couple of weeks ago, I looked at some of the farm back there that were using six and eight row equipment. And they told me that the fellow I talked with said that, well, he had planted 40 acres of, soy beans in three hours time. He had an eight row planter. David Dollar: What'd your dad have said about that? You think he'd ever think that could happen? E.L. Roge: No, he wouldn't have believed it. He wouldn't have believed it. And even I didn't believe it when the two-row cultivated first came out, those tractors. David Dollar: You thought that was amazing, huh? E.L. Roge: Yeah, I thought, well, while I'd watch one row, the other row would be plowed under maybe, but I didn't realize that the planner would place it just right so that if you cultivator was on this row correctly and set right, it would wouldn't have hurt the other row at all. David Dollar: So one of the big changes is seeing machines replacing animal labor, and two, all the worries. Your dad had to worry about making those roads straight. If they weren't straight and just right, it was his fault. Now you can kind of blame it on a machine or something. E.L. Roge: Yeah, that's right. And then too, any conversation that I had with this man, he said, well, he's not doing anything. He said they have planters and cultivators now that could take care of 24 rows at a time, and he said that even he's heard that they have up to 32 roles at one [inaudible 00:04:30]. David Dollar: I didn't know about that. That sounds amazing even to me, when I've grown up with all these fancy machines and all that. E.L. Roge: Well, it hasn't come to be practical, I guess, here in our part of the country, because, we're not out on a prairie or have large acres, but we have a lot of gates, and trees, and things like that, ditches and things of that kind to contend with here, and probably for that reason they haven't come here, but eventually I imagine they will be using them here. David Dollar: I guess so. Back to your dad. What did you and your dad do? How did he start you off learning the tricks of the trade, and farming, and all that? E.L. Roge: Well David, when I was nine years old, I went to school down here at Melrose and we had to walk and there was no school buses then. We had to walk to Melrose in the morning and walk back, which was about six miles a day then. And we were in school down there, and they had sharecroppers on farm then. My father had a family there that had gone off and left his crop half-finished which was in grass, and he didn't know what else to do, so he took us out of school to help clean that crop out with holes. And that is the beginning of my farming. Then I hadn't done any farm work at all, that is in field. Anything I did chores around the house, but didn't have never worked in the field. But after that, while he saw, I guess, that we worked so successfully, I'd say, my older brother and I, we had to do a lot of the field work after that. We took a hold, in other words, and helped him in the farm work. David Dollar: And been doing it ever since. E.L. Roge: Been doing it ever since, yeah. David Dollar: All the time. E.L. Roge: And it was done by man strength and awfulness then. Everything was done by man strength and awfulness. David Dollar: Okay. Sounds good. I'll tell you, let me interrupt this right here. Just a second. We need to have a little commercial break. David Dollar down the river, visiting with Mr. E.L. Roge, and we'll be right back to continue our visit right after this message from our sponsor People's Bank and Trust Company. Hello, once again, in case you're just joining us, this is David dollar. Today on Memories, we're down Cane River, visiting with Mr. E.L. Roge we've been talking about farming and some of the differences that he has seen in especially the implements and the methods of farming. Not so much in what was grown, though. I guess your family has always grown cotton, soybean, things like that. What was your dad growing around here? E.L. Roge: Well, at that time, cotton was a main crop. That was the money crop. But of course they had horses and mules, and they had the hogs and chickens to feed and everything of that kind, and people didn't buy their feed. They raised it then. They raised practically all the feed was corn. And they would raise the corn crop in the forest, and plant a large potato patch, and things like that. They didn't buy as much out of the stores as what they buy at now- David Dollar: You grew your own food in other words. E.L. Roge: Yeah, grew your own food. Yeah. And they'd plant maybe an acre in sugar cane, make syrup out of that. And that would help to make both ends meet, they [crosstalk 00:07:42]. They raised hogs, and cured the meat, and they'd have that for the year supply, and even have their own lard and things of that kind, raise the chickens on the yard, and have the eggs and different things that they needed. They didn't have to go to the store and buy it. David Dollar: Let me ask you this. You said the money was in cotton. Where and how did your dad go about marketing his cotton? Now was it local? Was there a gin here that he just turned his whole crop over to, and they did the processing work or... How did he go about making cotton in the ground pay off for his family, the whole process there? E.L. Roge: They would raise their crop, David. And they would, of course, when they picked the cotton, it was all handpicked, and it takes about 1600 pounds of seed cotton to make a bale of lint cotton. They take it to the gin, and gin out, and they'd wrap it, and they would ship it... My daddy would ship his cotton to New Orleans, most of it. David Dollar: How did he get it down there? E.L. Roge: Well, the most of the time with the ship be on freight, or if the river was low for the steamboat, couldn't come up, they would ship it by freight. Or if the ginners could catch the water high enough, the steamboat would pick it up right there at that gin. They were located right on river banks, and they would just load the seed and the cotton, and ship it on down to New Orleans if the water was high enough that the steamboat could come up Cane River. That was before the dam was put here in Cane River. David Dollar: Do you remember that, or just- E.L. Roge: Oh yeah. Yes. I've seen many a steamboat pass with bales of cotton and sacks of cotton seed. And we would run out there. That was a big scene for us. David Dollar: Oh I'm sure it was. E.L. Roge: We kids would run out there and watch that. And there was even one of the men fell off the steamboat one day, and- David Dollar: You saw that? E.L. Roge: And we thought sure the poor fellow was going to drown, but he said, "Slow that old steamboat up," and they picked him up, and everything was all right. We thought sure he was going to... It seemed like he was back there trying to grease that old stern wheel, and he fell off there. And the wheel didn't catch him, and he just stayed up and bobbed, he didn't try to swim anything. He just waited until they came and got him. David Dollar: That would've been scary for me. E.L. Roge: Well, it was! David Dollar: I'd be fighting to get out of the way of that wheel, I guarantee it. E.L. Roge: I guess he was too. David Dollar: But your dad would... They'd send it all down to New Orleans, and in turn, they would send back what? Cash money, or goods, or... How? E.L. Roge: Well, he'd send his cotton to what they call a commission house down there, and I forget the name of the commission house that he used, but anyways, they would hold the cotton there in storage on, [inaudible 00:10:22] to his order, which when he thought the market was high enough that he wanted to sell the cotton, and he just ordered them to sell the cotton, and they would sell the cotton, and whatever they would receive, they'd take that commission out of it, and then sent him the check. Of course, most of the time, cotton didn't bring but from 5 to 80 cents a pound at that time- David Dollar: Ooh goodness, that's other thing that's changed a lot isn't it? E.L. Roge: I guarantee you it changed. Because sometimes and even now that cotton is about 75 cents a pound- David Dollar: Sure changed. E.L. Roge: ... but everything else was cheaper though. David Dollar: The food in the goods that he in turn had to buy were a lot- E.L. Roge: You could buy 24 pounds of meal, then for 25 cents and 25 pounds sack of flour about 35 cents. And it's about 10 times that now, and everything else in proportion, [inaudible 00:11:10] eating well, even cars. I remember when we first started buying those old Model T cars, I think they were selling $375 a car, and of course you can't buy Model-T's anymore, but you buy a Ford now- David Dollar: Oh you can't buy any kind of car for $375, not even a bad used on. E.L. Roge: No, that's right. David Dollar: I'll tell you! That is something. Mr. Roge, We're just about out of time. We'd like to try to close our program with what we call a closing memory. Something of importance to you, maybe that you remember. Something real special that kind of stands out in your mind. Maybe one time you did something really good or got in trouble for doing something. I wonder if there's anything that stands out in your mind that you could share with us now. E.L. Roge: I've had a lot of experience that's happened to me in my life. When I was a child, I wasn't too good as a child. I was mischievous. And my dad had to worked me over pretty often. And I guess I need it every time. I remember he had an old stack of shingles out there in the yard. And when I'd get into mischief, he thought I needed it, he'd send me out there and get a shingle, and I knew what that meant. He was going to put the shingle on me, and not on the house. So I did something wrong one night, and he told me to go out there and get him a shingle. And I did. I went out there and got him shingle, but I put a couple of them in the seat of my little pants back then, and he caught me up, and he rapped me with the shingle out and brought him and I yell as loud as I could and left out. And he, as I left, I heard him say, "That sounded good. He sure did sound nice." He didn't know he'd beaten on the shingles instead of me. David Dollar: Did he ever find out? E.L. Roge: I don't think I ever told him. David Dollar: He'd probably smack you again. E.L. Roge: I don't think I ever told him. Get into a lot of trouble [inaudible 00:13:05] a little kid. Would get up on the old shingle roof, flip those shingle outside first, and we'd get up there and slide down a shingle roof. And he'd tell us not do it, but we'd get on the other side of the barn and slide down that new shingle roof, and my poor mother, when she put us to bed, she'd had to pick those splinters out our seat there at night. [inaudible 00:13:31]. David Dollar: Guys getting into mischief. Well, Mr. Roge, we certainly thank you for sharing all of this today about farming, and mischief, and everything else. E.L. Roge: Well, I enjoyed having you. David Dollar: I had a good visit down here. Thank you very much. E.L. Roge: You're quite welcome. David Dollar: If any of you folks at home have memories you'd like to share, we'd like to hear from you. The retired senior volunteer program office is helping us keep our schedule, and their number is 352-8647. If you've got any problem with your finances or you know somebody who does whether retired people, part of our program here or otherwise, why don't you talk to the folks at People's Bank? Give Roger Williams a call or any of the folks over there. They'd like to give you a hand. They're there, and that's their business. That's what they're all about. Give them a call. We thank you for joining us today. This has been David Dollar visiting with Mr. E.L. Roget down Cane River. You all have a nice day.

E.L. Roge: Mr. Roge’s father owned a farm. He was born in 1896 around Cane River and spent most of his life working on a farm. Talks about the shift between animals and machines plowing the farm.

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