Take a journey through the fascinating history of Castillo de San Marcos. Listen or download these audible adventures.
Sharks in the Moat
Join Emily Ward, Flagler College Public History Intern at Castillo de San Marcos, and Bobby Batson, fellow resident of St. Augustine, to explore one of the most commonly asked questions about the history of the Castillo, "Were there sharks and alligators in the moat?"
Emily Ward (0:18)- Welcome to Castillo conversations. My name is Emily Ward and I'm a Public History major at Flagler College and I've been interning at the Castillo de San Marcos. I'm joined today by a special friend and a fellow resident of St. Augustine, Bobby Batson. We are going to talk to you about some of the most commonly asked questions about the history of the Castillo. So Bobby, what do you want to talk about today? Bobby Batson (0:39)- Well, today I had a couple of questions actually regarding the moat that's around the Castillo fort. Is it true that the Spanish in order to fight off invaders and keep them from climbing the walls they actually put sharks and alligators inside the moat with all the water? Emily Ward (0:55)- No, so there actually were no sharks or alligators in the moat. There actually wasn't even water in the moat to put sharks and alligators in Bobby Batson (1:04)- But I thought most moats had water in them. Emily Ward (1:07)- Typically water in the moat is to prevent the enemy from being able to dig underneath the walls, getting their ladders close enough to climb the walls. But they didn't really have to worry about those problems at the Castillo, because in Florida, the sea level so low, the tunnel would flood anyway. Plus, the Spanish didn't have to worry about enemies climbing the walls of the fort because the cannons at the top could shoot enemies from about a mile away. So you see the Spanish shouldn't really need water in the moat. Bobby Batson (1:34)- Well, then what was the moat even good for? Emily Ward (1:36)- That's a really good question. So the Spanish needed a safe place to keep their livestock corralled close by as a food source. The Spanish would store barrels of rice beans, corn flour and dried and salted meats inside the rooms, but if they wanted fresh meat, they needed live animals. Bobby Batson (1:52)- But why would they need to stockpile so much food for the fort? Emily Ward (1:56)- So the Castillo was a siege fortress. So when an enemy attacked, they would surround the fort to cut off the Spanish supply lines to try to starve them into giving up. See, they didn't really have many other options. They couldn't tunnel under the walls. They couldn't climb over them, and they couldn't knock them down, either. The coquina stone the fort is made of has millions of teeny tiny air pockets. So when a cannonball hits, it's like sticking a knife into cheese, the stone doesn't shatter, and the walls do not fall. So the only option left is for the enemy to try and starve out who's inside. Bobby Batson (2:29)- Okay, but then, if the British was smart, wouldn't they just shoot out the livestock from the moat and wipe out their food supply? Emily Ward (2:36)- Well, the livestock actually would have been pretty protected from enemy fire because of the moat wall and the walls of the covered way. See, the Castillo is tucked down inside a gigantic foxhole and everything at the moat level is hidden and protected. Much more useful that way. Bobby Batson (2:51)- Okay, but then how come I've seen pictures from the 1990s of the moat with water inside of it? Emily Ward (2:58)- Well, that's because you weren't the only person who thought the Spanish had water in the moat. For a long time the national park service thought there was supposed to be water in the moat too. So for about sixty years from the 1930s to the 1990s they had water in the moat. That was before people realized the water was causing damage to the coquina. But that's a whole other story. Bobby Batson (3:19)- Huh? I wonder how many people like me thought there was actually water in the moat. Well, that's about all for my questions today. Thank you for answering them for me. Emily Ward (3:27)- Thank you for asking. I'm glad we got that all cleared up, and now everyone knows the Castillo had a dry moat. Thanks to everyone for listening to this episode of Castillo Conversations, Sharks in the Moat.
The Secret Ingredient
Join Emily Ward, Flagler College Public History Intern at Castillo de San Marcos, and Bobby Batson, fellow resident of St. Augustine, to learn about the rock that saved St. Augustine.
Emily Ward (0:20) - Welcome to Castillo conversations. My name is Emily Ward and I'm a Public History major at Flagler College and I've been interning at the Castillo de San Marcos. I'm joined today by a special friend and a fellow resident of St. Augustine, Bobby Batson. We are going to talk to you about some of the most commonly asked questions about the history of the Castillo. So Bobby, what do you want to talk about today? Bobby Batson (0:41) - So how on earth did the Spanish manage to mix and make the stone blocks for the fort? Emily Ward (0:46) - Well, they didn't mix the material. Coquina is a naturally occurring stone made of shell sand and limestone. It could be cut and quarried. Bobby Batson (0:54) - But where did they get the coquina from? Emily Ward (0:56) - The Spanish had access to the quarry on Anastasia Island and labor from local Native American tribes and both free and enslaved Africans. They were able to collect the stone, cut it, and build the Castillo. Bobby Batson (1:07) - Really, where else could you find it? Emily Ward (1:09) - It's pretty unique to our area. Other forts may be made from coral or shell but it wouldn't be the same shell, the tiny coquina clam that lived here thousands of years ago that fossilized into the coquina we know today. Bobby Batson (1:21) - Well, I've also heard of tabby. How does Tabby differ from coquina? Emily Ward (1:26) - Tabby is a mixture of crushed shells, water and sand it could be poured for flooring. In fact, the original fourth floors were made of Tabby and many of the buildings in town are Tabby structures. Bobby Batson (1:37) - So did the cannonballs actually get stuck in the coquina? Emily Ward (1:40) - Yes, the coquina stone has millions of teeny tiny air pockets. So when a cannonball hits it, it's like sticking a knife into cheese. Bobby Batson (1:48) - Well, in that case, then the Spanish just were able to take the cannonballs out and reuse them right? Emily Ward (1:53) - After a cannonball hit the fort, it would have not been able to be reused. The cannon ball would have been much too damaged. So the Spanish would scoop out the fired cannon balls, but that was just because they took such great care of the fort and wanted to repair damages, not to fire the cannonballs again, and because of that visitors today should not expect to see old cannonballs stuck in the walls. Bobby Batson (2:13) - Well are the holes on the side of the fort today from cannonballs? Emily Ward (2:17) - The holes are not from cannonballs. The Spanish really did take great care of the Castillo. Whenever it was damaged, they would fix the coquina and redo the plaster. The fort was a symbol of status and power. So trust me the Spanish wanted it to look good. Bobby Batson (2:30) - Well then what are the holes from? Emily Ward (2:32) - Some were caused by the other owners, the British and the U.S. who adapted the fort to fit their own needs, and some of the holes are also from natural erosion of the coquina. Bobby Batson (2:42) - Hmm. So sticking a knife into cheese. I'm sure taking a bite out of coquina would be much rougher though. But, thank you for answering my questions today. That's all my time. Emily Ward (2:51) - Thank you for asking, and thanks to everyone for listening to this episode of Castillo Conversations, The Secret Ingredient.
The Dungeon
Join Emily Ward, Flagler College Public History Intern at Castillo de San Marcos, and Bobby Batson, fellow resident of St. Augustine, as they debunk the dungeon.
Emily Ward (0:20) - Welcome to Castillo Conversations. My name is Emily Ward and I'm a Public History major at Flagler College and I've been interning at the Castillo de San Marcos. I'm joined today by a special friend and a fellow resident of St. Augustine, Bobby Batson. We are going to talk to you about some of the most commonly asked questions about the history of the Castillo. So Bobby, what do you want to talk about today? Bobby Batson (0:42) - So I heard they found some bones in the old dungeon from a couple that was walled up alive. Emily Ward (0:49) -Well, the army did find bones in a walled up room, but that room wasn't a dungeon and there was nobody wild up alive. Bobby Batson (0:57) - Well, if the room wasn't a dungeon, then what was it? Emily Ward (1:00) - It was the old gunpowder magazine. It is tucked back inside the Northeast Bastion so that it's well protected from enemy fire and from accidental explosions within, but it's very humid because the Matanzas river is to the east of the fort. So the Spanish built a new magazine on the opposite corner of the fort. The old one, the one you call a dungeon, was then used for storage and trash. It was eventually closed up by the Spanish but no one was inside when they did. Bobby Batson (1:26) - Well, if people were not walled up alive then where did the bones come from? Emily Ward (1:29) - It's a bit of a mystery, but the bones were probably just trash that they found when the room was uncovered. Bobby Batson (1:35) - Now you're sure it wasn't a couple that was walled up alive? I do remember hearing about a forbidden marriage between a woman and a soldier and the father of the girl was so angry that he locked him in the dungeon and left them there to die. Emily Ward (1:48) - I think you're thinking of the story of Dominga de Zespedes, and the room actually would have already been walled up by the time her story takes place. Bobby Batson (1:55) - That is actually who I'm thinking of. What's her story though? Emily Ward (1:58) - So Maria Dominga de Zespedes arrived in St. Augustine in 1784, with her father recently appointed Governor de Zespedes. It was a time of transition and turmoil in Florida as the colony had just been transferred from British hands back to Spanish. Dominga fell in love with an Irish Hibernian regiment Lieutenant named Juan O'Donovan. During a farewell party for the last of the British officers, Dominga and Juan snuck away to a friend's house and sent for a priest under false pretenses. When father O'Reily arrived the lovebirds were cited their wedding vows and as they had done so in the presence of a priest and a witness, it was a legal marriage. The Governor was furious. He arrested one for marrying without the consent of his superior officer, and Domingo was confined to her home. Bobby Batson (2:43) - Well were they ever reunited? Emily Ward (2:45) - Juan was sent to Havana as procedure dictated but Zespedes wrote to the Cuban authorities and the King of Spain to ask for leniency. Two years after the sneaky wedding Juan returned to St. Augustine and he and Dominga had a proper ceremony at the church. Their son was born on February 9 1788. Bobby Batson (3:03) - Well, while not being as dark and mysterious as bones being found walled inside the fort, I guess that is a lot happier of an ending for the two so that's good. Emily Ward (3:13) - Yeah, it is. Bobby Batson (3:15) - Well, that's all my questions for today. Thank you. Emily Ward (3:17) - Thank you for asking, and thank you to everyone for listening to this episode of Castillo Conversations, The Dungeon.
Changing Flags
Join Emily Ward, Flagler College Public History Intern at Castillo de San Marcos, and Bobby Batson, fellow resident of St. Augustine, to explore how the fort changed hands.
Emily Ward (0:19) - Welcome to Castillo conversations. My name is Emily Ward and I'm a Public History major at Flagler College and I've been interning at the Castillo de San Marcos. I'm joined today by a special friend and a fellow resident of St. Augustine, Bobby Batson. We're going to talk to you about some of the most commonly asked questions about the history of the Castillo. So Bobby, what do you want to talk about today? Bobby Batson (0:41) - So I know Florida as a territory over the years transferred from different powers, did the British ever gain control of the Castillo? Emily Ward (0:49) - Yes, from 1763 to 1784, the Castillo and St. Augustine were British territory. Bobby Batson (0:57) - Hmm, and I know the British lost in their attempts during the 1702 siege and the 1740 siege. So how did they finally defeat the Spanish in battle? Emily Ward (1:08) - They didn't. It was a condition of the treaty that ended the Seven Years War, or as some call it the French and Indian War. You see, the Spanish allied themselves with the French during that conflict, which was very unfortunate for them as that turned out to be the losing side. During the war, the British managed to capture Havana, Cuba and Manila in the Philippines. Those two port cities were far more important to Spain than anything in Florida. So they made a deal. Florida was relinquished to British control and Havana and Manila were returned to the Spanish. A signature on a piece of paper transferred control of this fortification, not a battle outside of its walls. Bobby Batson (1:45) - And I know the British only really had the Fort for roughly 20 years or so what was the most significant event during the British period? Emily Ward (1:53) - At the start of the American Revolution, England decided to utilize Florida as a staging area for British troops assigned to the south. The town quickly overflowed with British troops and a growing stream of loyalist refugees fleeing the fighting in the Carolinas and Georgia. St. Augustine and Fort St. Mark, which is what the British renamed the Castillo were used as a supply base in a prisoner of war camp for captured rebels. Among these were three of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Hayward Jr, Arthur Middleton and Edward Rutledge. South Carolina's Lieutenant Governor Christopher Gatson, was held in solitary confinement inside the fort's jail for 42 weeks. Bobby Batson (2:32) - And we know that the British lost the war, so, did they lose Florida to the Americans? Emily Ward (2:38) - No, Spain got involved in the Revolutionary War, but this time, they allied themselves with the winning side and they managed to capture the British Bahama Islands. When the Peace of Paris was drawn up in 1783, it was decided that the British could have the Bahamas back in exchange for returning Florida to Spanish control. Spain returns to Florida and controls it until they sell it to the United States in 1821. Bobby Batson (3:02) - Well, thank you for educating me on the transfer of powers between, you know, so many different countries back in the time. So thank you for answering my questions. Emily Ward (3:12) - Thank you for asking, and thank you to everyone for listening to this episode of Castillo Conversations, Changing Flags.
The Execution Wall
Join Emily Ward, Flagler College Public History Intern at Castillo de San Marcos, and Bobby Batson, fellow resident of St. Augustine, for a closer look at the water battery.
Emily Ward (0:19) - Welcome to Castillo conversations. My name is Emily Ward and I'm a Public History major at Flagler College and I've been interning at the Castillo de San Marcos. I'm joined today by a special friend and a fellow resident of St. Augustine Bobby Batson. We're going to talk to you about some of the most commonly asked questions about the history of the Castillo. So Bobby, what do you want to talk about today? Bobby Batson (0:41) - So last time I was at the fort, I saw these little holes in the wall in the southeast Bastion. I'm assuming that means the army used to execute their criminals by firing squad, like along the wall. Is that true? Emily Ward (0:54) - So St. Augustine was attacked by pirates and the British many times, but all of those attacks happened while the Spanish were here. And while the Spanish were here, the fort's moat went all the way around the building on all four sides, including the one of the southeast bastion. The US filled in this eastern side of it in the 1840s, which means when the Spanish were here, the ground level at the base of the wall would have been at least six feet lower. So even if they were executing pirates and British soldiers there, which they weren't, the holes are way too high to have been from firing squads. Bobby Batson (1:28) – So, then what were little holes in the wall from because they definitely look like bullet holes. Emily Ward (1:32) - Well, there are two theories. One is that's where the US Army had their target practice while they occupied the fort, making them bullet holes. The other theory is that because this wall used to be covered in plants, the roots did damage to the coquina. Bobby Batson (1:47) - In that same area, I actually remember seeing a small furnace and I've always wondered what was that used for? Emily Ward (1:52) - It's a hot shot furnace, so the shot furnace is used to heat iron cannonballs up red hot to be fired into wooden ships, catches the ships on fire. Bobby Batson (2:02) - Wait, how did you put a hot cannonball into the cannon without burning yourself or lighting off the powder before you're ready? Emily Ward (2:09) - Very carefully. They used large iron tongs or scoops to move the shot from the furnace to the cans. The cannon has to be positioned right where you want it and you have to have a nice thick wadding of damp cloth or clay between the ball in the powder to make sure it doesn't go off. And you have to fire it very soon after loading. Because if the cannonball continues to expand with the heat, it can get stuck in the barrel and then it's time to get out of the way. Bobby Batson (2:36) - Well, sounds like the US made a lot of changes to the east water battery of the fort. Did they ever get to use the hot shot in battle? Emily Ward (2:43) - No, although there was conflict during the US period like the Seminole Wars or the Civil War, for example, the fort wasn't fired on in any battle. Bobby Batson (2:54) - Well, thank you for answering those questions. Part of me actually kind of hoped that the furnace was used for baking pies, but I see it was used for a lot more strategic reasons. Emily Ward (3:04) - Well, thank you for asking and thank you to everyone for listening to this episode of Castillo Conversations, The Execution Wall.
The Great Escape
Join Emily Ward, Flagler College Public History Intern at Castillo de San Marcos, and Bobby Batson, fellow resident of St. Augustine, to discover how the fort is connected to the "Unconquered People," the Seminoles of Florida.
Emily Ward (0:19) - Welcome to Castillo conversations. My name is Emily Ward and I'm a Public History major at Flagler College and I've been interning at the Castillo de San Marcos. I am joined today by a special friend and a fellow resident of St. Augustine, Bobby Batson. We are going to talk to you about some of the most commonly asked questions about the history of the Castillo. So, Bobby, what do you want to talk about today? Bobby Batson (0:41) - Well, so you know how I'm from Tallahassee, I'm a diehard FSU fan. And I was curious about, you know, the Seminole Tribe and Chief Osceola. Is it true that Osceola and the other Seminoles were held as prisoners at the Castillo? Emily Ward (0:57) - Yes, in 1837, the United States Army captured and held many Seminole prisoners at the Castillo, which at the time would have been referred to as Fort Marion. Bobby Batson (1:07) - Yeah. And then there was escape. Can you tell me about how the Seminole escape that Osceola led like how that happened, how to go down? Emily Ward (1:14) - I can certainly tell you about the Seminole escape, but Osceola was not the one who led it. Bobby Batson (1:19) - Really then how did they escape? Or why wouldn't he have led it? Emily Ward (1:24) - Osceola was very sick with malaria when he was here at Fort Marion, and he was too ill to leave. The escape was led by another warrior named Wildcat, he and 19 others slipped out on the night of November 29th. Bobby Batson (1:36) - And how did they escape? Emily Ward (1:38) - We're not really sure. The US Army report says who escaped, when they escaped, but does not go into great detail on how they escaped. Wildcat's account goes into greater details. He describes waiting until there was no moon to have the cover of darkness, climbing on each other's shoulders and using ropes and more to go out the windows. What we know for sure, is that they were held in the rooms on the southwest corner of the fort. Most of the fort rooms do not have windows, but those ones do. So Wildcat's story is possible. Bobby Batson (2:10) - And then what happened after they escaped? Emily Ward (2:12) - A month later Osceola and the remaining Seminoles were transferred up to Fort Moultrie in Charleston, South Carolina, and Wildcat was leading troops against the US Army at the Battle of Lake Okeechobee in December. Osceola died of his illness in January of 1838, and they buried him right outside of Fort Moultrie. Bobby Batson (2:31) - Do you think that we're ever going to discover all the details of that daring escape? Emily Ward (2:36) - The details of the escape may be less important than the fact that it happened at all. After Wildcat escaped from Fort Marion he continued to fight with Seminole forces and led many victories in battle. Some historians argue that his escape helped to rally weary fighters to continue their efforts and that his leadership changed the course of the war. If Wildcat had not escaped, the outcome of the war, and the future of the tribe could have been very different. Even today, most members of the Seminole Tribe of Florida trace their heritage back to those 20 prisoners who escaped. The war between the Seminole tribe and the US Army concluded in 1842, but there was never an official treaty ending the conflict. In 1842, many of the surviving Seminoles in Florida fled South seeking refuge in the Everglades, and the Army gave up their effort to remove them from the territory. To this day, the Seminoles still call themselves the unconquered people. Bobby Batson (3:27) - Well, I definitely wish that was true for our football team, but I'm glad the tribe went undefeated. Anyways, thank you for answering the questions. That was actually really great to finally learn so thank you for that. Emily Ward (3:40) - Thank you for asking, and thank you to everyone for listening to this episode of Castillo Conversations, The Great Escape.
