Season 1
Episode One: How "America's Best Idea" went Global
Transcript
1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,640 park science celebrates is a podcast of
2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,639 park science magazine that highlights
3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:11,200 the milestones and contributions to
4 00:00:08,639 --> 00:00:14,160 science made by parks and programs of
5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,759 the national park service
6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,199 hey everyone and welcome to another
7 00:00:15,759 --> 00:00:19,680 episode of park science celebrates
8 00:00:17,199 --> 00:00:21,279 podcast i'm your host cass bismeyer with
9 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,480 my co-host courtney jessfield hey
10 00:00:21,279 --> 00:00:25,279 courtney
11 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:27,359 hey cass okay so today we have someone
12 00:00:25,279 --> 00:00:28,960 really special on the podcast who
13 00:00:27,359 --> 00:00:31,039 started out in the peace corps and has
14 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,040 helped to build a really unique function
15 00:00:31,039 --> 00:00:34,880 for the national park service so we're
16 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,960 happy to have john putnam from the
17 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,239 international affairs office we're going
18 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,480 to hear about some significant
19 00:00:38,239 --> 00:00:44,200 contributions their office has made for
20 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:44,200 science through collaboration
21 00:00:44,879 --> 00:00:49,600 so welcome john thanks so much for
22 00:00:46,879 --> 00:00:52,399 agreeing on our park science podcast
23 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,239 here can you kick us off by just telling
24 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:56,559 us a little bit about you
25 00:00:54,239 --> 00:00:59,120 sure thanks cass and thanks for inviting
26 00:00:56,559 --> 00:01:01,280 me for this podcast so i've been with
27 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:04,159 the park services international affairs
28 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,720 office for more than 20 years now it's
29 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:09,680 gone by quickly but it's been a really
30 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:12,320 fun fun ride i'd grown up a lover of the
31 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:14,159 outdoors but also lived overseas as a
32 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:15,759 teenager and so always had those those
33 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:18,960 two interests and
34 00:01:15,759 --> 00:01:20,479 through uh through good luck find my way
35 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:21,759 to the park services international
36 00:01:20,479 --> 00:01:23,840 affairs office
37 00:01:21,759 --> 00:01:26,080 after serving as a ranger and a peace
38 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,000 volunteer overseas and this ended up
39 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:30,479 being like really the perfect
40 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,560 match for my for my interest that's so
41 00:01:30,479 --> 00:01:33,840 exciting john i just love that the
42 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,400 national park service has an
43 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,840 international affairs office it has to
44 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:42,159 be one of the coolest jobs in the entire
45 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,439 agency can you describe your program for
46 00:01:42,159 --> 00:01:45,200 us what is it that the international
47 00:01:43,439 --> 00:01:47,439 affairs office does
48 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,280 well the park service has been involved
49 00:01:47,439 --> 00:01:50,720 internationally well since even before
50 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,159 there was a park service you know with
51 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,000 yellowstone being
52 00:01:52,159 --> 00:01:55,280 the world's first national park you know
53 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,600 the rest of the world quickly took
54 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:00,079 notice and came uh obviously a global
55 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:02,799 movement um but even at the very
56 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:04,479 creation of the park service in 1916 you
57 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:05,840 know stephen mather the first director
58 00:02:04,479 --> 00:02:07,439 was told by the secretary of the
59 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,720 interior at the time that he should be
60 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:11,840 following
61 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,360 events overseas with the idea being that
62 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,800 the park service could learn from what
63 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,560 other countries
64 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,360 and so particularly after world war ii
65 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,440 when
66 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,920 this global park movement really took
67 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,560 off in a big way park service was just
68 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:26,879 being inundated with requests for
69 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,879 assistance and for advice
70 00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:30,319 on how to either set up a park system or
71 00:02:28,879 --> 00:02:31,760 a new national park
72 00:02:30,319 --> 00:02:33,040 unit
73 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,599 and so
74 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:38,400 secretary of the interior stuart udall
75 00:02:35,599 --> 00:02:41,120 in 1962 ago six years ago in june the
76 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,200 first world parks congress in seattle he
77 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,640 announced to the world that
78 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,640 the park service was creating this
79 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:48,800 office of international affairs
80 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:50,720 to facilitate these kind of exchanges
81 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,400 and learning from
82 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,640 our international partners and sharing
83 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,640 our successes and mistakes you know one
84 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:58,480 thing we're we're unique really we in
85 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:59,360 and canada are the only park agencies i
86 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,519 know of
87 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,519 uh which bring together both natural and
88 00:03:01,519 --> 00:03:05,040 cultural heritage under one
89 00:03:03,519 --> 00:03:06,959 organization
90 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,959 most other national parks are under you
91 00:03:06,959 --> 00:03:10,720 know a ministry of environment
92 00:03:08,959 --> 00:03:12,720 and cultural sites typically under you
93 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,800 know ministry of culture
94 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,480 and they're very separate but in the us
95 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,400 and again in canada
96 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,760 we bring them together and and the world
97 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,239 heritage convention
98 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,200 likewise um was the first international
99 00:03:22,239 --> 00:03:25,840 instrument
100 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,360 to see that both nature and culture are
101 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,599 really um
102 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,959 closely linked and need to be protected
103 00:03:29,599 --> 00:03:35,440 by by one instrument thanks john that's
104 00:03:32,959 --> 00:03:38,080 really interesting to learn about the
105 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,720 early origins of kind of this global
106 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,599 park movement really fascinating
107 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,680 remind us today what we are celebrating
108 00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:48,959 provide a brief description of your
109 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,799 program's milestone what it's about
110 00:03:48,959 --> 00:03:52,480 well i think the idea was right from the
111 00:03:50,799 --> 00:03:53,920 beginning of course this was created in
112 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,680 the kennedy administration our office
113 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,200 was and it was the same time the peace
114 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,280 corps of course was established there
115 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:02,080 was this i think the general sense
116 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:04,480 at in throughout the us government that
117 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,720 we need to be very involved around the
118 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,159 globe and like the peace corps i think
119 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,280 that was a big part of it that we should
120 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:13,840 be sharing the lessons learned in places
121 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,400 like yellowstone yosemite you know with
122 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,600 our international partners and
123 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,239 you know with countries that were maybe
124 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,720 just starting their own park agencies
125 00:04:20,239 --> 00:04:25,440 but i think even from very early on uh
126 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,280 we saw this was a two-way street that
127 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,800 you know the park service the us had had
128 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:30,800 as much to benefit from this kind of
129 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,840 international exchange as we had had to
130 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,680 share
131 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:35,199 you know some of the things that um you
132 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,960 know we've learned from our
133 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:40,560 international colleagues over the
134 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:42,800 decades now include uh sort of iconic
135 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,479 parts of the park service at great smoky
136 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,440 mountains now you know they're known for
137 00:04:44,479 --> 00:04:50,160 the um all taxa uh biodiversity
138 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:52,240 inventory where they're trying to
139 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,160 inventory and record uh essentially
140 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,720 every living thing within the boundaries
141 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,479 the borders of of the park but this was
142 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,919 an idea that didn't start in the us or
143 00:04:58,479 --> 00:05:02,080 great smokies it was really an idea that
144 00:04:59,919 --> 00:05:04,560 started in costa rica park service took
145 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,320 note of that and adopted
146 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,600 this concept and brought it back
147 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,840 to the u.s
148 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:12,080 a lot of our large mammal
149 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:14,000 research protocols were learned by
150 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,919 exchanging ideas with the south african
151 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,520 national park agency
152 00:05:15,919 --> 00:05:18,960 you know to this day we
153 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,880 we bring back
154 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,479 good ideas from our international
155 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,759 colleagues back to the park service
156 00:05:22,479 --> 00:05:26,880 whether through
157 00:05:23,759 --> 00:05:29,120 study tours international workshops
158 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,880 staff exchanges that kind of thing just
159 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,759 another really neat example that i was
160 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,880 involved with that promoted an exchange
161 00:05:33,759 --> 00:05:37,440 between
162 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:40,320 glacier bay and a park called francisco
163 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,840 kolani in chilean patagonia
164 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,840 it's an amazing place which is in many
165 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:46,160 ways almost a mirror image of glacier
166 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:48,000 bay these deep fjords
167 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:51,120 glaciers
168 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,720 a lot of sea life healthy population of
169 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,479 humpback whales
170 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,720 they were concerned
171 00:05:54,479 --> 00:05:58,720 at this park in chile with
172 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,240 the potential of ship strikes on these
173 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,400 whales this is through the straits of
174 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,080 magellan very high
175 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,240 a lot of ship traffic going through
176 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,240 there and of course the glacier bay we
177 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,479 have a lot of experience with the cruise
178 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,400 ships coming in there and so the park
179 00:06:10,479 --> 00:06:14,800 service at glacier bay has developed
180 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,280 protocols for both monitoring
181 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:20,160 the whale population in the bay
182 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:22,160 their movements and for predicting where
183 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,000 they will be and and helping them
184 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,080 determine what the ships the cruise
185 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,880 ships routes will be through through the
186 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:31,520 park to minimize any impacts uh on
187 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,440 whales and so our expert our ecologist
188 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,479 from glacier bay spent six months in
189 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,400 chile
190 00:06:34,479 --> 00:06:38,080 bringing this knowledge to their park
191 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,880 system and helped them develop a very
192 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:44,720 similar protocol and helping you know
193 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:46,960 minimize the risk of injury or death to
194 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,560 to this park's whale population
195 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,319 but at the same time
196 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,400 he got a lot of interesting new ideas to
197 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:54,000 bring back to glacier bay so again it
198 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,080 was a great example of a two-way a
199 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:59,120 two-way street that's wonderful john
200 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:01,599 what an amazing example of collaboration
201 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:04,319 you know what is your program or parks
202 00:07:01,599 --> 00:07:06,560 you know contribution to science
203 00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:08,800 i've already provided a few very
204 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,440 specific examples but maybe think about
205 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:14,479 it in a more holistic uh way
206 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,919 sure so again we have a very small
207 00:07:14,479 --> 00:07:19,039 office the international affairs office
208 00:07:15,919 --> 00:07:20,720 is just six people these days and uh
209 00:07:19,039 --> 00:07:22,160 so we are not i mean many of us have
210 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,880 some background in science but we're not
211 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,639 the
212 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,919 science scientists the science experts
213 00:07:24,639 --> 00:07:27,199 but our job really is more like
214 00:07:25,919 --> 00:07:29,199 matchmakers
215 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:31,039 we'll get a request from an
216 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:32,240 international counterpart or from a us
217 00:07:31,039 --> 00:07:34,880 embassy or
218 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,400 other third party looking for a
219 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,240 technical advice assistance from the
220 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,639 park service and then our job is to try
221 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,160 to identify where if that expertise
222 00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:43,599 exists in the park service where it is
223 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,680 and see if we can then
224 00:07:43,599 --> 00:07:46,879 use that to help our our international
225 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,360 partners
226 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:50,479 and so when we if we find that uh you
227 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,479 know what's either
228 00:07:50,479 --> 00:07:54,160 in some cases the more extreme cases
229 00:07:52,479 --> 00:07:56,560 like the six month you know exchange
230 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,319 where the ecologists from glacier bay
231 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,879 actually spend all that time at
232 00:07:58,319 --> 00:08:03,520 francisco kalani but more typically it's
233 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:06,720 two-week technical assistance project
234 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,879 or maybe it's a workshop that either we
235 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,720 organize in the u.s or our international
236 00:08:08,879 --> 00:08:13,759 colleagues have organized and will send
237 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:16,319 the right expert to that to that country
238 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:18,080 sometimes it's more basic than that we
239 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:20,160 got a request
240 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,319 a while ago from the peace corps in
241 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,160 paraguay in south america
242 00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:26,960 they were trying to
243 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,440 develop a wildlife monitoring project in
244 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,360 and around paraguay's protected areas
245 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,959 and with their peace peacock volunteers
246 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,000 working with community members and park
247 00:08:32,959 --> 00:08:35,919 managers
248 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,680 to do this but they didn't have
249 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:41,039 the wildlife cameras and they reached
250 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:43,120 out to us and as luck had it um park
251 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:45,360 service had a lot of surplus cameras
252 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,120 that we managed to connect uh
253 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,959 you know these surplus cameras which are
254 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,080 still perfectly good for what paraguay
255 00:08:48,959 --> 00:08:52,080 was looking for
256 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,160 got them to paraguay
257 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,800 they developed wildlife monitoring
258 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,320 project um and it was so cool about six
259 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,040 months or so later they started sending
260 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,440 us
261 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:04,080 these great photos of ocelots and
262 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,920 jaguars and other animals that they
263 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,720 didn't even know were there um until
264 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,080 they set up these cameras so you know uh
265 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,000 there's all kinds of things we get
266 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,560 involved with and again you know we're
267 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,360 not experts but our job is to find where
268 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:19,279 that expertise lies within the service i
269 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,399 just love this john just thinking about
270 00:09:19,279 --> 00:09:22,640 how much
271 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:25,680 not only are we helping but we're also
272 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:27,920 learning along the way um and certainly
273 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:30,399 60 years of that i'm sure there's
274 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,160 lots of stories that we can tell
275 00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:34,320 looking ahead what's you know what's
276 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:37,200 happening now that you're really
277 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:39,040 enthusiastic about and of course we're
278 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,120 hoping you can talk to the science angle
279 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,200 as we're the park science magazine
280 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,600 so what's what's happening now that
281 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,880 you're enthusiastic about
282 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,600 well there's just so many things going
283 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:51,519 on around the globe in conservation um
284 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,360 in protected area management that i
285 00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:55,360 think the the us and the park service
286 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,120 really stands to benefit by you know
287 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,600 deeper engagement
288 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,279 these are things like how do we uh how
289 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,959 do we integrate traditional ecological
290 00:10:01,279 --> 00:10:04,480 knowledge indigenous indigenous
291 00:10:02,959 --> 00:10:06,000 knowledge with i guess you call it
292 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,240 western science
293 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,480 uh and this is an area where you know a
294 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,839 lot of countries have done a lot more
295 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,839 than the park services has done the u.s
296 00:10:11,839 --> 00:10:15,440 park service has done and i think we
297 00:10:13,839 --> 00:10:17,519 would stand to benefit by you know
298 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,720 really visiting these places learning
299 00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:22,079 how they've set up these types of
300 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,640 programs
301 00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:26,800 places even as close as canada but
302 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,760 australia and new zealand have really
303 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:32,320 become leaders in this topic um and i
304 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,320 think the park service would benefit by
305 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,000 engaging with them more more deeply but
306 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,440 also things like um
307 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,640 we're familiar of course with america
308 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,480 the beautiful
309 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,440 which is part of this larger global
310 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:45,279 initiative the 30 by 30 to protect uh 30
311 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:48,000 percent of the globe's
312 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:49,440 terrestrial and marine areas by 2030 but
313 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,600 there's a lot of science behind that
314 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,839 which area should be prioritized how do
315 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,279 we define conserved
316 00:10:53,839 --> 00:10:56,640 and so there is a global you know
317 00:10:55,279 --> 00:10:59,360 there's a global movement looking at
318 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,680 this park service in the u.s you know
319 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,120 at a larger level i think could would
320 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:04,959 benefit by
321 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,800 engaging in these conversations about
322 00:11:04,959 --> 00:11:08,560 how do we uh how do we think about this
323 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,320 here at home by learning what you know
324 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:11,200 other countries and the global community
325 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,120 um
326 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,560 at large are doing the other thing that
327 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,920 really gets me excited is migratory uh
328 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,560 connectivity
329 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:23,760 we in the u.s i grew up you know with
330 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:26,640 these uh field guides to birds that
331 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:29,600 showed their range in the u.s
332 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,839 and then the rest of the uh world didn't
333 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,640 exist apparently you know i so i knew
334 00:11:31,839 --> 00:11:36,800 where they were from may to september
335 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,079 but then they just disappeared um but
336 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,839 you know our the way we're looking this
337 00:11:38,079 --> 00:11:43,040 has changed radically and now we know
338 00:11:39,839 --> 00:11:44,480 that uh whether it's migratory birds
339 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,839 marine life
340 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,120 sea turtles
341 00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:50,320 they are really
342 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:52,000 global travelers we want to
343 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,600 be able to enjoy them in u.s national
344 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,639 parks we need to be thinking about what
345 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,760 they call
346 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:59,760 full life cycle uh conservation and we
347 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,519 need to need to be thinking about where
348 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,720 they are when they're not in an in a us
349 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:03,680 national park when they're not in the
350 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,079 u.s
351 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:07,760 and what are their conservation needs uh
352 00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:09,760 outside of that and so migratory
353 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,920 connectivity is one way to get at that
354 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,079 to understand um you know where are the
355 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,760 golden eagles from denali
356 00:12:14,079 --> 00:12:18,720 going when they leave the park and where
357 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:21,040 are the sea turtles from dry tortugas
358 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,720 going when after they've laid their eggs
359 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,399 and they moved on somewhere else and the
360 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,839 birds uh you know
361 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:27,040 going to places that are protected or
362 00:12:25,839 --> 00:12:29,760 not protected
363 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,600 and with that knowledge i think then uh
364 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,200 the park service could start
365 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,360 figuring out ways to prioritize we
366 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,279 obviously we have a very limited
367 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,639 resources for international work but
368 00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:40,639 with this knowledge we could start
369 00:12:38,639 --> 00:12:42,480 prioritizing
370 00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:45,040 where we want to focus international
371 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,800 work but also i think just make the case
372 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,240 that much stronger why we need to be
373 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,040 involved internationally because we'll
374 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,720 see
375 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,240 it's not just a shared species but an
376 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,800 actual shared population or even a
377 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,760 shared individual moving from one of our
378 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,120 parks
379 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,720 to these locations outside the u.s
380 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,880 so i'm really excited about as
381 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,639 technology increases the park service
382 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,120 hopefully doing a lot more to understand
383 00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:08,880 these connections wow john that's
384 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,800 wonderful you know i first of all i
385 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,320 really liked the concept of deeper
386 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,160 engagement i think that's really
387 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,639 important and exciting
388 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,680 but really the discussion that we just
389 00:13:16,639 --> 00:13:21,839 had about migratory connectivity is a
390 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:24,240 great segue to our next question which
391 00:13:21,839 --> 00:13:26,800 is how are you tackling oncoming issues
392 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:29,200 with science
393 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,279 well again i mean our our issue is
394 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,040 always that where we in international
395 00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:36,000 affairs are not necessarily experts but
396 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,279 we we look to our our expertise in the
397 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,680 park service
398 00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:41,199 um and so i think the most important
399 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:43,199 thing um from the international
400 00:13:41,199 --> 00:13:44,320 perspective is to make sure that our
401 00:13:43,199 --> 00:13:47,120 experts
402 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:49,519 are in regular uh communication with the
403 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,959 experts around the globe
404 00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:53,360 and you know one of the
405 00:13:50,959 --> 00:13:55,360 vehicles for for facilitating this is
406 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,279 the world commission on protected areas
407 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,519 or wcpa
408 00:13:57,279 --> 00:14:01,120 which is a volunteer network under the
409 00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:03,120 iucn
410 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,360 and they include things like
411 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,519 climate change and conservation or
412 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,920 connectivity conservation
413 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:11,440 um and unfortunately uh for one reason
414 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,839 another you know
415 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,600 a lot of our park service colleagues
416 00:14:13,839 --> 00:14:18,079 are either not aware of these expert
417 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,839 groups or are not involved
418 00:14:18,079 --> 00:14:22,160 and you know one thing i think our
419 00:14:19,839 --> 00:14:23,600 office would like to do is find ways to
420 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,920 really increase
421 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,120 uh park service involvement in some of
422 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,279 these
423 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,360 expert groups you know these issues are
424 00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:33,440 not unique to the u.s park service or to
425 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,000 the u.s uh every country around the
426 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,959 globe are facing very similar challenges
427 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,560 so it just makes sense for us to be
428 00:14:38,959 --> 00:14:42,880 not trying to reinvent the wheel but
429 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:46,320 learning from others
430 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:47,920 successes and failures um and hopefully
431 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,160 and then in the us bringing that
432 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,680 expertise back and and focusing on those
433 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,160 those successes and
434 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,519 uh and improving our own conservation
435 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,440 outcomes
436 00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:58,959 john you give us a couple of little
437 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,360 sneak peeks of things that are on the
438 00:14:58,959 --> 00:15:03,440 horizon as far as your work in science
439 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,480 especially around migratory species and
440 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,480 america the beautiful and the
441 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,240 forthcoming conservation atlas
442 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,079 is there anything else that you can get
443 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,680 us excited about as far as a little
444 00:15:10,079 --> 00:15:13,279 sneak peek what the international
445 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,519 affairs office has
446 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:18,160 coming up in the next few years as you
447 00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:19,519 make your way past 60 years and into you
448 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,360 know your next
449 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:22,959 decade here
450 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,720 well i guess one thing i'd just like to
451 00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:26,800 also just remind folks that we've been
452 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:29,199 talking i think almost exclusively about
453 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:31,360 sort of natural resources and natural
454 00:15:29,199 --> 00:15:33,040 heritage conservation but of course so
455 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,279 much of what the park service does and
456 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,160 cultural heritage and cultural resources
457 00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:38,240 uh
458 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,639 protection and preservation as well i
459 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:43,440 think that's just another area where
460 00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:45,519 uh you know we hope to do a lot more in
461 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,519 i mean one neat example it's not
462 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:50,639 necessarily science but it's it's it's
463 00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:52,639 related the whole issue of adobe adobe
464 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:54,399 construction preservation
465 00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:56,800 this is an area where the u.s and the
466 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:58,399 park service um really was losing
467 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,040 expertise and
468 00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:02,399 and uh through a program in cooperation
469 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,639 with mexico
470 00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:07,519 maybe 10 15 years ago they started a
471 00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:10,560 regular workshop where park service and
472 00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:12,959 and mexican experts would get together
473 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,199 and spend a week learning about instruct
474 00:16:12,959 --> 00:16:17,279 maintain preserve adobe
475 00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:19,759 structures and this is bringing back
476 00:16:17,279 --> 00:16:22,399 this expertise to the park service so we
477 00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:23,839 can better protect our own sites
478 00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:24,959 and and there are many examples like
479 00:16:23,839 --> 00:16:26,560 that you know throughout the park
480 00:16:24,959 --> 00:16:28,320 service where you know we don't have all
481 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,000 the answers uh sometimes it's our
482 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,759 international partners who are really
483 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,360 there to to help us
484 00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:35,519 do our job better
485 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,199 one follow-up question to that john i
486 00:16:35,519 --> 00:16:38,720 this might be a personal interest of
487 00:16:37,199 --> 00:16:41,360 mine but i'm sure our listeners will be
488 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:44,240 excited too i'm wondering are there any
489 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,800 new potential international peace parks
490 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,800 or any new potential sister park
491 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,120 relationships in development that are on
492 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,519 the horizon that we can kind of
493 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,199 look forward to supporting or following
494 00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:57,279 the development of
495 00:16:55,199 --> 00:17:00,240 uh so we are
496 00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:02,959 hopefully going to be uh signing a new
497 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:05,360 agreement between the park service and
498 00:17:02,959 --> 00:17:07,760 mexico's ina which is their
499 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:10,000 national institute of history and
500 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,799 anthropology it's basically sort of the
501 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:15,360 the cultural heritage side of
502 00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:17,199 conservation uh we've had these
503 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:18,959 agreements in the past but it expired a
504 00:17:17,199 --> 00:17:22,160 few years ago and so we we hope that'll
505 00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:24,799 be uh renewed or the new ones signed in
506 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,799 the next uh few months um we do have a
507 00:17:24,799 --> 00:17:29,039 few sister parks uh
508 00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:30,480 in in the pipeline i don't want to get
509 00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:33,440 out ahead of them but
510 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,480 i think uh stay tuned in the next
511 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,720 month or so we should have an
512 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:40,400 announcement on at least one with uh
513 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:42,559 i'll say it's a country in south america
514 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,640 we've got a lot of other um
515 00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:46,160 there's always a lot of interest
516 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,320 in developing these kind of agreements
517 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,320 but of course one of our jobs is to make
518 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,919 sure that uh it's something that we can
519 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,360 really live up to
520 00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:54,880 there's a lot of excitement about these
521 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:56,720 but we want to make sure that
522 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,679 once an agreement is is signed that
523 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:01,760 there's actually the the wherewithal to
524 00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:03,440 to actually implement some of the things
525 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,039 that we've been discussing so the two
526 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,200 examples i've talked about there's a lot
527 00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:09,039 to get excited about so stay tuned i
528 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,120 guess i can say
529 00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:12,960 thanks john that's very exciting and
530 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,440 wonderful to hear about all of these
531 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,720 collaboration with mexico with the adobe
532 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,720 construction
533 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,039 really exciting um
534 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,440 our next question is it's a fun one if
535 00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:25,919 if you could partner with anyone or any
536 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,120 organization in our vast global
537 00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:29,600 community
538 00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:31,760 to help move your work forward in
539 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,799 science who would it be
540 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,160 oh boy
541 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:35,840 that is a that is a tough one there are
542 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,200 so many there's so many partners i
543 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,960 already mentioned the world commission
544 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,360 on protected areas i think that's the i
545 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,039 guess that's the low-hanging fruit
546 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:45,360 you know if we could get
547 00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:47,360 more park service engagement
548 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,799 with some of those expert groups in the
549 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:52,160 wcpa
550 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:54,880 i think that would be a major success
551 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,400 many other international entities where
552 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,120 i think the park service could benefit
553 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,640 by
554 00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:00,640 being more involved you know
555 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,480 unfortunately the us is
556 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,640 right now not a member of
557 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,000 unesco but they do have some programs
558 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,080 that we're still involved with including
559 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,240 the world heritage convention which is a
560 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,080 standalone convention and i think our
561 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,480 site manager would benefit a lot by
562 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,320 engaging more uh with with them and with
563 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,240 other site managers around the globe who
564 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:21,760 are facing similar you know science
565 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:23,919 issues and and research issues biosphere
566 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,640 uh reserve advisory region program is
567 00:19:23,919 --> 00:19:28,720 another voluntary program under unesco
568 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,240 which is all about linking
569 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,320 conservation
570 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,720 with sustainable development and looking
571 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,559 and looking at ways to promote both we
572 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,320 in the park service have been leading a
573 00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:40,480 revival of that program in the last
574 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,000 couple of years boy they're just so so
575 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,919 many others out there i think the main
576 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,200 thing is once you start as a park
577 00:19:43,919 --> 00:19:47,120 service employee sort of dipping your
578 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,640 toes into the water of this
579 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,160 international work you realize how much
580 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,320 there is to gain
581 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,480 by talking with your colleagues and
582 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,559 counterparts from around the world uh
583 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,400 and realizing that they're sharing so
584 00:19:56,559 --> 00:20:00,160 many of the same challenges that that we
585 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,320 do in the in the in the us and the park
586 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,760 service um and a lot of them have some
587 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,760 very good ideas that we haven't thought
588 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,200 of and we can try them here here in the
589 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,679 us
590 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,080 well gosh john this has been a really
591 00:20:09,679 --> 00:20:14,240 exciting interview as far as learning
592 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,600 more about international affairs office
593 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,440 as well as
594 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,280 what you all are celebrating this year
595 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,120 certainly on behalf of courtney and
596 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,640 myself and the rest of our park science
597 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:23,760 editorial board we really appreciate
598 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,480 your
599 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,400 continuity and service that certainly
600 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,080 has to be a part of the success of the
601 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,679 international affairs office is having
602 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,440 year-long service be
603 00:20:31,679 --> 00:20:35,360 instrumental in
604 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,960 helping to lead the way there
605 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,640 is there anything that we might have
606 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:42,320 missed for our listeners today that you
607 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:45,360 might like to to add before we close out
608 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,360 oh boy i mean i guess just uh one thing
609 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:49,760 uh to keep in mind you know when when
610 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:51,440 when folks are traveling and if
611 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,600 americans are traveling overseas and if
612 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,880 you visit a national park or world
613 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,880 heritage site
614 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,440 uh i would just say remember this is an
615 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,120 idea that you know it didn't start in
616 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,080 the u.s certainly was
617 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:05,600 strongly influenced by the us and
618 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,520 you know take some real pride in that
619 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,400 and uh this is one of the areas where
620 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,640 the u.s where america americans
621 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,320 have had a really important and positive
622 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,240 global influence it's one of those
623 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,159 things but this is a great story the
624 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,280 story of the us
625 00:21:18,159 --> 00:21:20,720 and leadership in international
626 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,320 conservation and specifically the park
627 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,280 service leadership international
628 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,120 conservation learn about this story and
629 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,760 and really be proud because it's
630 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:31,760 something that um we all we all in the
631 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,760 park service we all as americans
632 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,679 uh have had you know an incredible
633 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,159 legacy around the globe
634 00:21:35,679 --> 00:21:40,640 well congratulations on your milestone
635 00:21:38,159 --> 00:21:42,810 thanks again for making time for us
636 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,880 thank you both it's been fun
637 00:21:42,810 --> 00:21:47,280 [Music]
638 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:51,720 this has been park science celebrates a
639 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,720 podcast of park science magazine
640 00:21:52,490 --> 00:21:55,240 [Music]
"America's best idea" is also one of our most influential exports! International Cooperation Specialist Jon Putnam talks about his office’s global connections in science on its 60th anniversary. More information: https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1955/index.htm. A production of Park Science magazine, Summer 2022 issue (June 22, 2022), https://www.nps.gov/subjects/parkscience.