4. Upon This Land: Episode 4
Transcript
Dustin Baker George Washington. It's one of the most recognizable names in the world. His story is a foundational stone in American history. Yet at the place he was born, only remnants remain of the buildings and the stories of people who once lived here. One might think that the birthplace of a national icon is an easy story to tell, but it's actually one of the most complex and surprising historic sites preserved by the National Park Service. So join us as we piece together the past, present and future of this place brick by brick. On this podcast series upon this Land History, mystery and monuments. In the 18th century, as people began to expand west, stories emerged of trees that took 30 men holding hand in hand to wrap themselves around. Waterfalls that were thousands of feet tall. Bubbling mud pots and geysers. These stories sounded like fiction. And they were not to be believed until artists found themselves in these locations and captured the scenery firsthand on canvas. Through their awe inspiring works, the public came to see these special places in America for the first time. The works captured their imaginations, spurring them to preserve these lands for future generations. Hi, I'm Dustin Baker, and I'm the chief of interpretation at George Washington Birthplace National Monument. Today, art continues to thrive in our national parks. The sights and sounds in national parks continue to inspire artists who communicate that inspiration through painting, photography, poetry, and more. But how do you take intangible inspiration from a site like this and turn it into art? What medium would you use and why? It's National Park Week, and on this episode we are going to ask that very question to our most recent volunteer artist in residence. Selene Jarvis is a textile and fiber artist working primarily in historical spinning, weaving and natural dye techniques. She embraces the value of making functional objects as a way to explore the intricate beauty of early American textiles. Her use of natural dyes utilizes local plants, linking the work to a physical location and capturing memory and fabric. Interviewing Selene Jarvis is myself and lead interpretive park ranger Jonathan Malriat.
Jonathan Malriat So, Selene, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?
Selene Jarvis Yeah, sure. I live locally. I grew up in the area and this is my first residency. I'm a hand weaver and spinner, natural dyer. I do a lot of different textile arts, very interested in historical textile arts. And yeah, I've been here since February doing a lot of spinning and dyeing and working with local natural materials at the park.
Jonathan Malriat So Artist in Residence program is a national initiative that the Park Service has been doing. And Dustin, explain what artist in residence is and what that means here at George Washington birthplace?
Dustin Baker
Yeah. So the relationship between artists and national parks goes all the way back to the very inception of preserving beautiful landscapes for the benefit of all people thinking all the way back to the 19th century, the Hudson River School painters Albert Bierstadt, Thomas Cole, Frederic Edwin Church, going out and documenting Western landscapes in those paintings and images, making their way back to the east and convincing people in government to preserve these places. It really speaks to art, has always been there when it comes to the history of the national parks, and I think everyone knows what I mean. When you go to some national parks and you're just immediately hit with this this surreal beauty of of of the landscapes and artists can communicate that in many different ways, very many different mediums. And so the Artist in Residence program is really something that's kind of been there all along. When you think about it, there's there's always been people painting these landscapes and photographing them. And and today we, you know, can broaden that into all different kinds of mediums. And with the artists and residency program here actually using materials from the landscape to create that art.
Jonathan Malriat So you're the one who implemented the artist residence program here at George Washington Birthplace. It's the first time we've had it. What was the motive behind wanting to do that?
Dustin Baker Well, for me, I mean, I think when people think George Washington Birthplace, they do not come prepared for how beautiful this park is. And it really is. It's scenic. It has lots of flora and fauna that you can't find in very many other places. And it is an exceptionally beautiful place. But for me personally, this was an important program to implement because I actually got my career started in 2011 as an artist in residence and I was the sculptor in residence for two seasons at Mount Rushmore National Memorial and it actually really makes talking to young people fun, people who ask one of the most common questions we get is how did you get your job in the National Park Service? And I think the answer people expect is studying, you know, geology or some kind of natural science. But to say, you know, I began as an artist and you could do really opens people's eyes to all the possibilities that our national parks or service sites hold, both in terms of career opportunities, volunteer opportunities, but also what's important to, you know, something kind of impersonal, like the federal government. It's it's surprising to people to think about. That there's actually art programs that are funded and sponsored by, you know, our federal government.
Jonathan Malriat So, Selene, you were the first artist in residence here at George Washington, birthplace. What interested in you in becoming an artist in residence volunteer?
Selene Jarvis Yeah, it's a great question. My first introduction to George Washington Birthplace Monument was actually through 4-H. As a kid, I did 4-H here at the park and would run around and volunteer and just got to enjoy, enjoy being in the park. And I loved that. And I have come to now be finishing my studies in textiles, historic textiles focused. And I had heard of artists and resident programs and national parks, but I didn't know that that was an option here, or I wasn't even thinking about that being an option here. Actually, when I reached out, I was just curious about what was going on at the park. Currently, I had remembered coming here as a kid and seeing the weaving studio and just wanting to get more involved in my local community and involved in historic textiles and the like. Right where I live. So I had reached out and was put in touch with Dustin, and when I came here we got talking about the Artist in Residence program and it just seemed like a really wonderful fit for what I was doing currently. And it kind of just grew out of having that conversation about how parks can be.There's just they have so much to offer, so much to offer, and especially for artists and a really great place to be. But yeah, I didn't exactly come here with the intention of of starting out at the residency, but I'm so glad that that's what happened. Worked out really wonderfully.
Jonathan Malriat What were some of the things that you did as an artist in residence? Because that's a pretty encompassing term.
Selene Jarvis Yeah, I worked a lot with, there is a flock of Hog Island sheep that reside at the Memorial Farm and I was able to get their fleece and process that entirely from just the raw fleece off the sheep to a finished woven shawl. I even was able to use some of the walnuts that were growing here at the park to die it. I did a lot of natural dyeing, some with plants that were here, so I was able to work with the Northern Neck Master Gardeners some, with the dye garden here and getting that, getting some plants in and using some of those, which was really exciting. I did lots of natural dyeing. Some with things that weren't grown around here but still were fun to work with, some stitching. I did a lot of writing. I really enjoyed the the peacefulness of this park. It's a very, a it can be pretty quiet, which is lovely for just writing and sketching and enjoying the gardens and the trails and sitting and drawing shorebirds or flowers and just really sitting with the land. Did a lot of that.
Dustin Baker Yeah. I think one thing to add is that, you know, you ended up making these beautiful works and but it was more than that. You were using, you know, a a spinning wheel and using techniques and technology that people would have had in the colonial era when they lived here during, you know, George Washington's time and his family's time here. And so I think for me, the most exciting thing to see was that blending of past and present, using old lifeway techniques to make modern art was something I was really excited to, you know, start talking about with you when we first met each other. And yeah, it's stuff that people would like to have in their homes. I'm sure you know, the stuff you created, it's stuff that I think is modern, but it has that old world touch to it.
Selene Jarvis Yeah, for sure. And I think I think that comes through a lot with, like you say, using these historic techniques to make contemporary pieces. And you're using plants, using wool, raw wool in a really in a historical way, but also in this experimental or fun way as well. That's been so rewarding to be able to use so much material from the area.
Dustin Baker Yeah. And we, we didn't really put you in a box or put any kind of guardrails on the direction that you went in. We just kind of put some tools in front of you and, you know, told you what materials you could and could not use in the park. And yeah, it's it's just so fascinating to see all the stuff that you were able to make just, you know, manifesting it from the natural resources here.
Selene Jarvis Yeah, absolutely. I think I may have confused some visitors, or not confused, but it led to a lot of interesting conversations when they would see me working with a spinning wheel or with a table loom or something that they would associate with the historical object. And yeah, these are historical techniques for sure that I'm using. But getting to use them in a modern or fresh way was really fun to have those conversations with people and also show them, yeah, this is exactly how carding wool would have been done in 1750.
Dustin Baker So and one thing you really taught me a lot about was all the natural dye plants that are even just in the memorial area of the park. I mean, so many plants now I see with a totally different point of view.
Selene Jarvis Yeah, you can't unsee it once you start identifying them. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I remember the spring we did the the scavenger hunt for kids with different dye plants and things. I've, I've loved getting to share that little bit of excitement about dye plants or plants in general or textiles with kids. It's been so fun.
Dustin Baker Yeah. So one thing I wanted to ask you is that, you know, artists tend to see the world in a special way, kind of through a unique lens and what do you personally think was the most beautiful part about the landscape here, and how would you explain it to someone who isn't an artist?
Selene Jarvis That's a it's a great question. I think. Well, some of the things that I found really striking, one, being here for a long period of time, I got to see, you know, the leaves emerge on the trees and the garden come up and then the summer flowers really be in full bloom. And now things are changing again with it being fall, colors are changing and leaves are falling and seeing migrating birds come and return. When I first got here, there were the tundra swans and now I think it's the geese, some geese that have come. But yeah, getting to see these like cyclical patterns in nature and thinking about that a lot in my work while I'm here and the patterns that repeat themselves in nature and, and history and thinking a lot about the people that have been here before us. And it's a it's a very special place. There's a lot a lot of history here. And I loved getting to sit and write and just thinking about how I get to enjoy it and look out over the same the same water that, you know, people have looked out at for hundreds of years. And yeah, really spending a lot of time writing during this residency, getting to think through some of those, those themes of, of seasons and circles and and different, different people through history and their experiences here.
Dustin Baker Yeah. And it's so hard to put into words. I think that's why artists exist because you're taking something that you know is unspeakable. It's intangible, it's unknown and you're, you're presenting it in a visual form instead of with words. So it's it's hard to kind of articulate that.
Selene Jarvis It is. Yeah. I found a lot of a lot of repetitive stitching work to be a good way that I could think through some things like that. And it might not look direct when you look at the piece, but there's a lot of those those thoughts and meditations just as I'm working on it, I'm thinking and considering the land around me.
Jonathan Malriat So I know as an artist in residence like the name indicates, you probably did a lot of art, but was there any surprising thing that you did as an artist in residence that you didn't expect when you started?
Selene Jarvis Yeah, I was not prepared to talk to so many people. I guess that I. I have really enjoyed it. That was not a bad thing at all. But getting to talk and engage with the visitors so much was really exciting. It especially the kids. I loved getting to talk to the kids. I can remember going, coming here as a kid or places like Ferry Farm or Williamsburg or at Yorktown, any of the historical sites, and just getting so excited to talk to someone showing a craft. And that's just because I'm a nerd. But I always really enjoyed it. So getting to share that with kids was super fun and letting them feel different will or even try their hand at spinning or something. And I just loved getting to engage with the visitors. That was that was a little bit unexpected. Good, a good surprise, though, and also just how much time I would have to sit and sketch out ideas and think through concepts. Usually when I'm working, it's a very like I have an idea and I just want to get my hands on it and start making. And I definitely did a lot of making here, but there was a lot of contemplative time for writing and just enjoying the scenery and sketching, sketching ideas out, really planning stuff.
Dustin Baker Did any questions that visitors asked you or anything really stick out?
Selene Jarvis I'm you think Well, a lot of people thought that I was a re-enactor, which I wasn't. I was using historical techniques like we've talked about, but I wasn't a re-enactor. Got a lot of jokes.
Dustin Baker Yeah.
Selene Jarvis But it was always exciting when there was someone who had a connection with fiber arts. And I always really enjoyed when there was someone who would say, my grandmother had a spinning wheel or my aunt was a quilter, or my sister does weaving, and we could have a whole conversation about textiles and how it affected them, because textiles do affect all of us, like we all wear, wear cloth every day, and it's just such a part of human existence. So it was really exciting to have this tiny community for a moment with visitors over fabric.
Dustin Baker Yeah.
Jonathan Malriat So I'm assuming over a year you probably felt like you've changed a lot, but is there any one change as an artist or an individual that you felt was either most impactful for you or something that you really took away from this year out here at George Washington Birthplace?
Selene Jarvis that's a great question. I, I don't feel that my art has, like, fundamentally changed or anything, but I, I do think that my time here has really let me sink into to this language of working with plants that I was starting to come into. And I've done a lot of natural dyeing for a number of years now, but that that language of working with plants as a way to connect yourself to a place I think really honed in here and being able to think about using using material from a location and how that how that links a person to the artwork and to a specific time to a specific place. That concept is something that I'm really excited about in the future, continuing with and just getting to be able to understand that even more.
Dustin Baker Yeah, it almost seems like magic to be able to extract color and material from just the plants that people walk past every day.
Selene Jarvis Yeah, for sure. And it just and it makes everything part of that, that circle you know, you're like with the walnuts that I used here, I was gathering them and they're putting off oxygen at the park that all of us here are breathing. And then now it's in a piece of fabric that someone could wear and when I was finished dying, I put the walnuts in my compost pile and they'll become soil for next year's dye garden. And it's just now linking everything together. I think a really exciting way.
Jonathan Malriat So, Dustin, I know Selene reached out to you, but is there any reason that you were thinking that Selene should be our first artist in residence? Was there anything about either her repertoire or the way she approached you that stuck out?
Dustin Baker Yeah. So, you know, piloting an artist in residence program at George Washington Birthplace had kind of been in the back of my mind, but I didn't really know what that looked like. I, you know, was thinking of, well, people have painted portraits of George. We only know George Washington's appearance through painting and sculpture. So maybe it could be something in that realm. I wasn't even in the same neighborhood as Selene's medium, but when she came and I met her and we walked around and she was saying what she was interested in doing here and wanting to to volunteer and she told me about her background. I like in real time as we were walking and I was like, Wait a minute. Like, this is art you're talking about. This isn't you know, this isn't something else. This is an art form because we're talking about color. We're talking about creating from scratch, using, you know, the things that we're literally walking past as we talk. And I immediately saw a that what I was saying earlier about blending Old World with New World, because I didn't want to say, Hey, you know, I want you to come here, spin up the spinning wheel and make some socks.
Selene Jarvis Yeah.
Dustin Baker You know, I was I was really thinking about modern art, but people using that as a vehicle to connect to old world lifeways here, that that people from George Washington's family and the people who lived on the shores of Po... Pope's Creek would, would recognize.
Selene Jarvis Yeah, I think that that was definitely accomplished with the some of the stuff that was made during my time here and I think you you brought up painting and talking about George Washington and yeah, we we think so much about like we're at George Washington's birthplace. But there is something very the the sort of like textiles can get overlooked I think and they’re but they're just so present in our lives and thinking about yeah, they can be kind of kind of humble, but they're really Yeah, I do’nt know where I'm going with that. I'm thinking a lot about and all the women that were here too. And it is primarily women that are doing the textile arts, the spinning and dyeing and the wool processing, that is primarily women. And there's a lot of women behind the Washington family. There was interesting to think about while I was doing all these crafts.
Dustin Baker Yeah, I think, you know, in our world today, especially for young people, textiles and clothing can almost seem kind of disposable, you know?
Selene Jarvis Yeah, absolutely.
Dustin Baker Almost single use. You buy it, you wear it, you get a mustard stain on it, you throw it out. But really seeing how much went into every single piece you made made me think about what it would have been like in the 17th and 18th century here and how special each textile object would have been, how much of a gift it would be to have a shirt or pair of pants made for you. And it it really makes me look at the colonial era in a whole different way that I'm sure a lot of people have already thought about. But it was it was new to me to think about how each item you had was, you know, hours and hours and hours of work put into it.
Selene Jarvis Absolutely. Yeah. I was thinking so much about just monumentous amount of labor that was done here and is done to make anything by hand. But yeah, just that coming here a few hours a week and working, but thinking about doing that spinning day in, day out, maintaining crops of, of flax or the sheep herds, anything you would need to produce cloth. I mean it's just an incredible amount of labor.
Dustin Baker Yeah.
Jonathan Malriat I mean, I know you said that you got some of the wool from the sheep here. How long did it take you to process and have you finished processing all of it yet?
Selene Jarvis I still have some leftover. The stuff that I did use, I probably used a third. So there's ah are six sheep here I think. I guess I used about two sheeps worth of wool if you wanted to look at it that way. And I wrote I mean it was several dozen hours. Yeah. It was just cleaning it alone is a huge process. And then there's carding and spinning, dyeing, weaving. It's a lot of hours.
Jonathan Malriat So I know like one of the pieces you have on exhibit is a like a scarf. If you had to take a guess at how many hours it took you to complete that scarf from start to finish. Just to put that in mind for our audience, because like, we can go to the store. It takes us 20 minutes to get to the store. We get the shirt and there we go. That's it.
Selene Jarvis Yeah, I would, the spinning was the longest, the longest part. That for sure, just took forever. I would estimate probably about 40 hours of work.
Jonathan Malriat So 40 hours for one scarf, a whole workweek. That just puts it in perspective.
Selene Jarvis Yeah, that's from sheep all the way to a finished product, product but yeah.
Jonathan Malriat I mean that really goes to show you how how intensive it was to be able to create things historically.
Dustin Baker Yeah. And just think about how many things like that were made here that are lost forever just because, you know, textile itself is ephemeral in the sense that it degrades and disappears. And.
Selene Jarvis You know, we're not digging up any fragments of of clothing usually.
Dustin Baker Right. Why do you think it might be important for someone of the next generation to learn these skills?
Selene Jarvis I think that they're just such important, important skills. Some of the people that I have learned these things from are an older generation. And it seemed to me when talking to visitors, a lot of the people that had the strongest connection were an older generation. And I just think it's really valuable to preserve some of these traditions or techniques so they're not lost. And so that younger generations and children coming into the world have an appreciation for things that are handmade, have an understanding at least of, some sort of understanding of what goes into making objects by hand and the value of that and the time that goes into it and the respect for nature if you're using natural, naturally gathered materials. I think that it's a whole way of life you can get talking about for sure, but boils down to, I guess, yeah, just keeping these keeping these hand crafts alive. There's a whole list of endangered craft, and when you look at it, there's so many things on that list that you would never even think about, like you know hat making or certain broom making techniques. And yeah, making things by hand is important. Oh gosh, I completely I was going to say, yeah, the community, the community that you can find in craft and in making things by hand, I have found to be so I mean, just a huge part of my life. Some of my closest friends are in that craft community and I think that you can just find a lot of friendship, a lot of connection with people in it, very similar and similar ways of life that.
Jonathan Malriat So any final advice you'd have for either someone looking to get into the textile arts or even someone who's interested in doing an artist in residence program for themselves?
Selene Jarvis Yeah, I would say if you're interested in getting into textile arts, one of the great things about textiles is how accessible it is, and it's pretty available to most people. It doesn't cost a lot to get some yarn and knitting needles, and there's so many different types of textile art that you could try out. So if knitting isn't for you, maybe you enjoy felting or embroidery. There's just lots of different things you could pick up and reach out and ask people. People love to share their craft and are always happy, in my experience, always happy to to talk about that and and share share some of their knowledge with you. I think that that's something I really love about textiles and just how easy they are to to bring with you everywhere. And for the residencies, again I think just reaching out to organizations, I was not expecting a residency here when I reached out, and that is one thing that I would definitely consider in the future is reaching out to places that haven't offered residencies, but seeing if they would be interested and developing something, that's been so exciting here. So I would certainly encourage people who are interested in artist residencies to to just inquire. Yeah, you never know what might happen.
Dustin Baker Rapid fire question, like, if I'm, if I'm walking around out in the park and I need to dye something yellow, what am I going for?
Selene Jarvis Right now it might be difficult because it's just there's been a frost, But…
Dustin Baker Time and season are no object.
Selene Jarvis Okay. I would say marigolds. If there's marigolds growing, those are my favorite source of just you can pick the flower. That's great. Another one that I use a lot is osage orange wood. That one's a little bit more tricky because you don't really want to cut down a tree, but if there's any fallen branches, you can gather some of the woodchips from that and that makes a really bright yellow as well. And both of those things grow here.
Dustin Baker What about red? What if I'm out and I'm needing something red.
Selene Jarvis Oh, red. Um red? Locally, that's a little bit tough.
Dustin Baker And I just also want to point out for the audience, there's a difference between staining and dyeing.
Selene Jarvis Oh yeah, for sure. There's a lot of misconception that you can just grab any berry you see and it will dye your cloth a beautiful purple or something and it might for a minute, but it will fade if it's not if the fabric isn't properly treated and you're not using a plant that is a known dye plant. Yeah.
Selene Jarvis So red, there's a lot of some people have had good luck with Poke Berry. The term is fast for keeping the dye in the fabric is fast if it if it lasts over time. Having a fast dye with poke berry, I haven't had great luck, so I usually use madder root, which is not native but I do grow it in my dye garden at home.
Jonathan Malriat So where is madder root originally from then?
Selene Jarvis Asia and Europe, it would have been imported here for sure in the colonies.
Dustin Baker And total wild card. Any other colors out there that might surprise us?
Selene Jarvis Well, I've been very recently in my home studio getting some really exciting purples from oak. Oak leaves, the tannins in oak leaves with iron. The iron and the tannins react to get some really beautiful purple shades, which if you just do the iron, it's gray and the oak by itself is sort of a brown. But when you combine them, you can get really cool purple tones. Yeah. So a bit of chemistry.
Dustin Baker Yeah. I was about to say this is this is art, This is chemistry.
Selene Jarvis This is it's so exciting about dyeing. You know.
Jonathan Malriat Are there any colors, because a lot of the ones you've talked about, you can almost guess what color its going to get, but are there any like ones you can think, oh when you dye it, this dye or use this object or plant, it comes up with a color so different than what someone would expect?
Selene Jarvis Let me think I off the top of my head, nothing. I, I can't think of anything that is like shockingly different from what you would expect. I think the thing that gets people the most in my experience is how hard the color green is to get because green is just so prevalent in the natural world. People often think you can just use leaves or grass or whatever, but you actually there is no plant that will just dye something green without a mordant like the iron or mixing a blue and a yellow dye to get to green. So that's always a little bit of a fun surprise for people.
Jonathan Malriat I’d say, I would have no idea on that one. I thought you could use like copper or something.
Selene Jarvis Yeah, well, copper or iron. Yeah. People do use those to shift browns to more of like an olive or a nice park ranger green. But yeah, like a Lincoln Green, you really need indigo and a yellow dye.
Jonathan Malriat That's a cool fact that I had no idea on when it comes to dyeing.
Dustin Baker Yeah, so just remember when you have grass stains in your clothes or your kids have grass stains in their clothes, they have not dyed their clothes. They’ve mearly stained it.
Selene Jarvis Yeah. So stain it for a while..
Dustin Baker Thank you for listening to this episode. We want to give a special thank you to Selene Jarvis for her beautiful work and for this interview. And since we're highlighting artists on this episode, we also want to give a special thank you to the band Wolf Patrol for providing the acoustic music we use at the beginning and end of each episode. So thank you. If you are interested in becoming an Artist in Residence at George Washington Birthplace, please contact us through our social media or our website. On our next episode, we're going to be turning back to the past. We'll be hearing from someone who has an intimate knowledge of our park, because they saw it being built in the 1930s with their own eyes. You'll hear their story with their own voice as we open up a portal to the past. On the next episode of Upon This Land: History, Mystery and Monuments.
Today, art thrives in our national parks. The sights and sounds in national parks inspire artists who communicate that inspiration through painting, photography, poetry, and more. But how do you take intangible inspiration from a site like this and turn it into art?
On this episode we are going to ask that question to our most recent volunteer artist in residence. Joining us during this episode is Selene Jarvis. Intro music courtesy of Wolf Patrol. Outro music courtesy of Brumbaugh Family.