Audio
Descendants Peri Frances Betsch and Emanuel Kingsley Legacy Interview
Transcript
Hello and welcome to virtual Kingsley heritage celebration. I'm Susie Sernaker Park Ranger with the National Park Service today we will hear from Peri Frances Bestch and Emanuel Kingsley two Kingsley's descendants about family heritage and the meaning of legacy. Peri Francis and Emanuel welcome. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for having me pleasure to be here. Thank you so much. It really is a pleasure to be here and to be able to come to you from New York in my case and pair you are in. Right now I'm currently in Nashville, Tennessee, and we're beaming into the plantation. Exactly. So it was virtually I Kingsley Butler other lie out in Brooklyn, so it's good to see I haven't seen many parts salon menu any time many years billing time. And I'm wing regards little picture in the museum of a super nice little picture. Anza. I tried one doing I own a blog. And said, I'm your Aunt is like, you know, shamefully outdated. But that feature view and me there is there. And it's a really cool creature. Severe as well as your earnings doesn't a this. Picture's larger, global earnings are and moving. I remember a lot, of course, DEF coins and people. Its so good to be with you and sit down and talk with you again and to be here on this occasion for the virtual Kingsley heritage that I know you were so instrumental in, you know, starting the Kingsley celebration. So my question to you is on? Can you tell me a little bit about how you found out that you were a Kingsley? The descendant? Oh yeah. Absolutely. The first summer ever heard of over a virtue. Please. I'm sure it was so long ago. I I I wanted I was late for five or six, but I really honestly do not know for my babies who earlier was so so and I was at Grandma's house and dumb sourcing something letters, low, yadda, yadda the familiar, and only later does like, oh, no, you sell your Grandma and Grandpa is gonna Kingsley like loser. I clearly remember. These details am dumb. Then my mom. My mom loves the story, but sometimes she's not, you know to exactly details and so she's like, yeah, no. He was an English pirate, and he's like your great grandfather. And yet an African wife and love, you know, like very. And well, you know, like after that ever since then, the hugely simply sinuses come up absolutely everywhere. And anytime there's a family reunion November weather person from Luke Perry per. Absolutely absolutely presence. I also think about it. How you know how this story? Actually that started in different places right in England in Africa. In two thousand, how that story actually crossed from Florida to the Dominican Republic, which was then occupied my Haiti administered by him. And then, Unitas like when down through the family as something that's very precious insight. It was a big deal now. Always every family reunion had the story of the kings is, you know we have to stick Arabia. So we don't gather by the fire by you know, it was late, you know. Gather by the icy. I guess. And that was always always presents since since then the on I remember, really, wow, I mean, why not migrate. My great grandmother on her. Lessening was key resource. It was the last one to to carry the name not anymore besides circuit recently, but my great grandmother was the last one thousand carry the name, and she's a person that knows very close to me and. On maybe say my Grandma, my Grandma. They were always there. You know. So the name itself was always visual sensation like Heinlein, my family, well, we called her Mama Mia, but her name was Maria, the donor Harris, Kingsley. Don't know. Harry Kane Bettis. Today it is. Yes Kingsley. A C wow. Centuries of an IQ, these great granddaughter. So I didn't really know by Kingsley connection until I really started to get to know Mafia. I and I started to get to know Marlene. When I was in, I first started using know her when I was in college, I was in was at Spelman, my other artwork President. And I just remember like there would be certain milestone occasion in her life. You know, she gets, she's getting married or there was the um. And when she was inaugurated at the President's salmond nor win on the Cosby's made their twenty million dollar gift, which at that time was like the largest single gift ADHD. You know, by all in the news, there would be these Blake, you know, gossipy, little murmurs and whispers the few here among the faculty or staff at Spelman, or you know, people in and Lana society likes to think she's in the code, I. You should never leave the island and she comes can bring all that hair. What anyone? What would it be like if she you know? And so she was to me isn't mom. Levine was like this. Hum. I didn't even make it larger than life. Huge person of thumb. You know, definitely like a President put some like trepidation among. So I I is. I remember I saw her in life. I think it was ebony essence. Magazine issued by standing on top of non a Dude in. You know those some blank but travel feature a maze listed. Her piano bar now is like a half. And so I wrote down the address, I come. I wrote her a note and biking one animals. You're gonna remember me. Come on, Johnny daughter a mini done in Atlanta. I'd like to see you know member. I got back this big Manila envelope with all kinds of newspaper clippings and like this leak this letter that was written on, you know, legal paper, but it had all these like high lighters in my pink and yellow and orange in and instead on. Greeting on the black rhino, vegetarian society and revolutionary headquarters on American beach house do by the specially. Maybe course I remember you and like so arm. So she was the person. Ooh really. Call me about the story like and I, we started corresponding in the I came and I met her, and she terminology people should be like, no. You gotta me, you know all you gotta be told those articles, buzzards, known dividing, grew up in Jacksonville. Oh. So I'm were always in the area through know. So so. It's interesting because I had come to Jacksonville as a small child. And then the last time I've been out for my grandmother's funeral and I was three. And then I didn't go back. My father move to Europe when our skin hum high school. So when when week I went back to Jacksonville, wished him to visit Mommy. And I wanna say I was twenty, and she hadn't been back in eighty years. Old ass found my whole life low in the midst of all of the people that he oh, you gotta be. So oh, she kept saying, we gotta go see Roger Carroll gardens the project zero. And I remember my mother him terrorists. Are those like me who I am do, sir? Roger or cousin. There were is two people that I mean each other related, because sheep's also she spoke of them was such like. You know friendship and love in like those are my people. So I thought they were literally are people come to find out secret. The Rangers at the National Park Service. Hum. And the actual day the eyes first read read his work, which at that time wasn't a book. It was a pamphlet. Yes. I remember when I was standing the first fast hands list with a term paper that was written by a friend of my father's who he meant when she worked at the Village Vanguard, New York. But then she moved to Florida and studied, denounce the stick, Kingsley connection and the connection to a Lewis admit the Legion. So she wrote their armpit. She sent me the term paper and the pamphlet. She tended to my father's house in Perry. Because I was on my way to Senegal. Right? Yes. So I injuries a vaguely knew that there was some kind of connection, but then I'm actually we had like, you know, the document with the dates in the names in the thing. And then like a week later, I was on my own crystallized in ozone, some retailers, Rogers race, similarly of like, made it really President and really real Fermi flow. Remember. Oh sorry, none of you are. I remember. We must me. You know, doctor. Super nerd are very close and dumb when we visited own genes, a producer for the first time we were when we went to Florida, often home since I grew up in Santo Domingo, and then we often wondered the sharp March, our shopping and jealous or loose interpretation of the time and Disney or less. Um. And I remember hundred and hold I was maybe eleven, twelve and. Rip it. I was if our Internet Tilly Lucas, but here without you know, they graduate high school class of ninety four the price. So how come somehow making in an online class of ninety five? I just have my bachelor's is Plaza two thousand. So yeah. So this was a while ago, rice and done the best I could do was lay at the at the at the airport late on the store. I just browsed and found Florida. Florida is exploding nuclear. They knew that frontier of the naturally the South. But um. And then there was, I wanted to see if I could find use a transition because we always knew that it was you don't museum. We actually had, um, family members have visited in the seventies. Right? And and so, you know. And then I, I, I actually found this, and I'm like, wow. And I called up from the airport and like, you know, I'm actually a descendant end NASA. They were late so excited. Then we visited any of the doctor Schafer was their Ninos. And I spent some time in in a few years ago, a years later, I am if I interned at Kinsey, but I did an internship at volunteer Kingsley plantation and said with the safer. But the point is of it's accuracy for contacted me like you won't believe it. I actually located Kingsley descendants in in the Jacksonville area. And I'm like well. I clearly remember that another he said from Martha writes, is surprisingly his daughter Martha was or Mary Mary to manager Sam is yeah right. And I was so excited and I'm late. Well no, but. The less when you guys hung out as well through doctor supers, resources. I correct. You know, I really don't know if Mommy knew of the story before learning of Shapers research the I when she was the person for me crazy, he told a story. Now how it all leads, you know, it's because like we always heard about the Afro, the upper American life insurance company in Illinois, and so he's my great great grandfather held at Kingsley connection is actually Abraham Lincoln. It married Mary friend. Ben Kingsley Amis and he was a bright like millionaire. Was it? You said so he could go back. That's what they say, Florida and need like millionaire in the state of Florida. Now we don't know that you know has had enough, but however, Viet Nam that's the story that he was the like millionaire in the state of Florida. We do not have the Afro American life insurance company would be first insurance company in the state of Florida, black or white. Oh so right on. So I've often wondered you know he. He is a formidable character. Their story is amazing, but I have often wondered how much of his own. Yeah. Dhabi real estate knowledge came from. You know that initial, his first marriage in his first marriage was to a Kingfisher beer. You know if if that helped him get a leg up in acquiring property or noon art business or you know, I just always wonder, but courted by lawyer? There were like the wealthier stone, probably residents of of counties beer, the two daughters, Mary, and Martha married snide one point. Yes. Someone pointed so resolutely and is always late one. You is clearly tell. Some stories are handed own infantilism others are not, and I'm like, you know what. What is it that you know that is it? Because we went to an island and others. You know the fear aspect of of insularity. There's always something that you want to connect. And maybe but the story pass that way because of the the owner is is um, maybe because seniority. Usually written Abraham Lincoln Louis Louis was such a big personality that overshadow that the King, these barriers for us like that for now. You know, there's only become legendary ancestor that describe any narciso was open area and energy and self conscious. I just sometimes wonder, you know, like wages. I mean, well again, my my perspective is a little different, because I didn't grow up in Jacksonville. And the story that I'm definitely knew, but I really didn't even understand the significance of death or either was Abraham Lincoln really affirmation, like just somebody an American beach one until very much later that I am even on. And then I learned the Kingsley story, but I didn't really get at the connection was because Abraham Lincoln Lewis married a seemingly ready and also because that marriage was relatively short. She she die. And he remarried in you married again and go on like a lot of the pictures. But I stopped him or the stories that you know. My Dad and my uncle tell both of us of his Mama zone with another one voter reader. I'm in shape for Tonia even just recently within the past. Are they probably five or ten years? Dad. He once he found both the story and the connection he has made an appointment to interview. My grandmother was Mary, Frances Lewis. Bench on. And he was on his way she was. She worked at Edward waters college, and he was on his way for office, and she was she had fallen ill, and she was taken away in ambulances and cheese. You know he'd later transition for. He never got to interview her, but she remembered her grandmother. Who would the us? You know who remember her grandmother remembered? I'm spending time as the house in Arlington. That is weird was in cemeteries right across. You're exactly where clarion is very erdos. It comes round. So um, what would you say is your connection to an end? And I am just that there's a. There was a story of the legendary investors know. It's more than that. I feel that ladies room. It's really. You know it really, isn't. I revere juices internal having to own up to my identity. Um really, I feel that, um. Listen another few constants in my life. You know the second tab, you know? I started very early on to be interested. There's always one in the family that likes the family history. You know, enzymes, I think out against ice. And Russia is in central United Starlet lake, as a child is asking questions and and always wanted to visit my great aunt's the one who the ones who are still alive and and and here their their stories. And I was fascinated and, and, you know, come to think of it. Also they you when you're in an elderly person. And someone takes an interest in someone young from the family or just anyone at all in the story. But also you do know for them. It was wonderful. I suppose as well when when I visited them and they came alive and it was just amazing. Nice to talk about these things. To talk about justice, like connection that we have some think also like he has my connections to, you know, being a Kingsley. It's such a multinational look at cultural multiracial. Everything in their story that, you know Sage's reveals different aspects. Every time you do the attorney page rate, different aspects of contradictions. Damn this is another the you know what. What you expect? Three light yellow that is not terrorize. I sat down with a waste. Not that China anxiety I now a time like this is not a. Thank you. Sorry. I keep thinking. Oh no, no, no. This is a racket. Oh. So this is kind of like mean to me. Yeah. Now does man listen? I should, but I just have to tell you, dear dear to you reclaimed the name. How did that come about in? And like, what does that mean? He's here. You will lose home. It's about a kind of like a feeling of belonging and identifying arms. So my parents married my my father. His parents were from screen earns home, so sort of them maternal side from Barcelona, the fraternal stars from certain counties in the South in in those year end. So but they were, you know, like, I mean, they're, they're my family, but it's just, you know, they were townsfolk vacuum, you know. In in in in Spain, until there was nothing really that that stood out, and I looked, and you know, and all of the stories, um, and ask questions. And you know, the usual stuff with the other side of the family. But I just never really just connected that much. There's just something about being a Kingsley that that really to me. It's just at, um. It is very impressive, very, very, very special lines. You know, it's double edged and it carries weight, but you know, it's just this is similar, but um, that kind of a connection, really. That's why I decided to choose my name. And I had I was in Spain for ten years on and so on I went. I went to Barcelona in two thousand and six because idols are like. Because I'm a French citizen as well. Does your son is a bit more no matter where you're born here if you liked the Senator Senator? So it's like, like kind of like Zia vs theater nationally. And so I went there in two thousand six on one of the reasons was beef because I was, you know, my boyfriend at the time time, and I could not really. Mary hears. He's from Germany. His visa was running out. We. I mean, I like him. He went on diet pills. Let me tell you. He loves movies. He's saying, like no Dude like she was singing. She was singing are silo me in ass and only about every outlet in a hula hoop know a lot about an offer much more than high through Emily. Yeah. And he's trying to impress, you know, like you don't understand. That's like the big roads. You gonna have that? Radiohead had athlete that they eat really excited about that, Adam. Let's move in and everything like that just accumulate in Seattle and will from everywhere. Really? Yeah. But so one of the reasons is, I like in Spain we could marry in two other safe third country in the world and that, you know, you hear in a suitably, so there's not much we can do this. And we went there, and it was a great time. And I started using the Kingsley name around that time. I kind of like I knew myself that I kind of identified more and more. I started using it. But it's not that easy to change your name being in a place where the civilized late codified likeness on the on the Napoleonic law. So like in France or in an hour Italy, I kind of stuff is not that easy, whereas in in Anglo Saxon like common is very easy. So I I used did, but it was nice not officially when I came back to me are ah. Then I just, I just managed really sixty bucks down there in city hall and then ended. It feels it felt great. And um, flea also want to like a family unit, the name, and so recently, and also sent for Kingsley name. Because you know, for Aetna we we we met. Remember the plantation? I I was staying there. Ah. I I uselessly at home in met him. When you were staying active, I know. Tommy Haas went to get a house like our first big trip together and camping out in oil. It was a like, and we stayed. We let their idea and one of the rooms in the media. The cloud has idea. The answer is on the Rangers. You know like the Minneapolis is that there's like to play for other volunteers day. We stay there ends. At midnight. We walked over to the plantation to the site of the old house in the rivers there, and it is very it was something that really got it together. Alonso is that this history. Freedom of the kings is also like it's become, is he really just absolutely loves it. I mean, now. It's pretty amazing to me that, while operating in in an error I am now you eyes are many time was quarantine. Nasty. Adding a hot desert, though, Nina, Hoss, because I Humpty in Atlanta for the French center. But we shared office faced with the ghost is which, because the German culture center, and tells the executive director of the defense on hum. I typically go by Francis, which is to talking about name. But really it just because I was a high school teacher, and you really don't want to stay super? Fourteen year old time is test on. I know that you know is there is important recently. It's become so my interest according to my another that I be a bad storm hearing claiming Tibet. But you. When he found out that that was my name. No question that were to become prominent, had told him the story, and then I told him about my aunt, and he actually hold up like me. Micro film reviews from the familiarity of her performances in Germany and unite. He kind of told me the same thing. Best your partner did like Choo Choo is like a sensation everyone asking about you know religious. Young African American are in. I bet I was young colored woman who was singing. He knows fellow man, I'd. I'm doing all the figure and she's done for the German state. Auburn with it. You know us. See she was she was so much larger than life entirely that she was dating em. Yeah. You both believed her, but she also was pretty dramatic in that machine or whatever. So it was a fight so many times she would pay something, and he didn't know whether ticket with a brain father as gospel, and it was her out to be like one hundred percent torture. Mommy was. The troops is was, and always will be. I remember those who actually saw release of fright. Me write me earns the bushes. Are you really feel about? You deserve marine. Ah offered you a weirdo. African bees were an American beach range as well, and then she's like the wind, gorgeous writer. How is you like many you in the? We may end the year. I think the year that she had transitioned two thousand and five. You're in twenty fourth cheating. And they open the door on the American beach museum for there's a museum now are calmer. Here is a mare. There's a whole, you know, a mile from. Peter was aware here, Oliver. Her there. So I go to opening for what hand on ways what you mean? Her hair. Is there light at home? She got older she could wanted it to be preserved the big long lonesome. Not yes. So it was most of the later little and all kinds of spices do in a way that it did. The date displayed. It is just genius is in this, like the center of the museum and encased in like a glass or Plexiglas solemn. And it has on to say, yeah. Orange ribbon, infamous orange ribbon, a hand on butterflies. Did you have a lot when I'm at home? Many analogies to like Marion's on. It's week or something. You know, yeah. And she was there. There's no doubt that it should be preserved and should be displayed Google. I'm Abba museum opening in a very emotional. The first time I've actually heard her voice when she transitioned posted by here, they're recording my ethics. I always people are coming up in introducing both me and my Dad and and if something comes up to me, she's like are older. White male mean by hair, parted down the middle of in dark, eating it. She's then. I'm so happy to meet you. She says system museum was my friend like, ah, man. I knew her for many years and nobody knew a lot of people in and around. If I did, how did you meet her. He's dead. I was her postal carrier. And so before she had a house before she had a piano bar, she would need me on Wednesday afternoon on the cop like it was like, literally like Marvin fed. I'll be on the corner. Julia and a one I just pull up. She's pulled up, and marine just like emerged from the Spanish mosque in the trees and was like, hey, get my mail. And since made about airport since this is a magical creature, but go home. My next question in on what does more, you can answered it already? But I am Bruno go. What does Kimberly conditioning you? And how do you feel when you visit know, you know, like, um? So if Sam I for me, I am very conscious of of the different aspects of the different things that happen there, the good and the bad life for me. When I go, there it is. It's almost like a pilgrimage. It is kind of like, um, it's kind of like, you know, like some people say, likely my ancestral castle, in whatever less a for me. That's kinda like being pastoral own home. You know, like a locus of of of of of obsessive of connections of some contradictions as well. It's kind of late to me. It really feels like a spiritual kind of Homecoming of sorts. Really really does say how you feel similar. I mean, get class. I definitely feel like it's like a pilgrimage. I feel like he is. Umm Tina. I feel very blessed and honored and privileged to be of person of African descent in though so called new world who can actually claim an mean failure is Laurie. I know that is rare. Um. I know that, you know people sometimes in Lansdale a certain way about the preservation of plantation owners. The whole debate about, you know? Should they be places where people have weddings and should they should be sorting? Will there be focused on the slave owners rather than the people who were enslaved? But to me, it's like I know. Then I, you know, like those people are directly related to me is my thumb like you said, it's not some faraway gone with the worm, or even like my personal work, you know. So when I followed air, my orientation is is more towards the quarters, then sports to how, if that makes sense, you know, I'm thinking about the visa mean the life that I saw end DEF entire lives possible. And so I, you know, I when I go there often like I'd go to the porters, I walk each for foreigners and then just say, thank you in. Oh. Thank you so much. Because I want them to know that they not forgotten that their that their labor was not in vain that. You know the life that they live continue to be a source of inspiration. Bad you know. Yeah. The complicated history know mom like the. It's funny. You say you claimed the name Kingsley iron. When people ask me what my relations I say. I must kindling guy because I always feel like I don't wanna leave her out and that he or she was then occasionally she was on too much again. Yeah. And so highly of it is, you know, it's a complicated place. It's also it's like, can we go to Goree island in Senegal. You're struck by like the horrific things that happened here was. The absolute beauty of the place is gorgeous island. And I, I feel kind of the same way about Chamblee is like this meme is such. I mean, like the landing with the water and dark house in the rear open. You know, like is gorgeous and it's a place of. Commemoration is the place you know, like I am. I have the opportunity to the air for the national Parks Conservation Association. So we're really looking at, you know, funding of an assisting the National Park with fundraising in the backlog of maintenance and upkeep death is artistic angle. But like all the basic around the country goes by twelve, twenty billion dollars or something ridiculous. And I'm saying, like, you know, there's these places in America that was old ass, Holy estate written. People talk about New Plymouth, rock or people talk about is island, are they talk about. You know these battlefields or like filler to me, this is my. This is my Palestine. You know, this is the place where my American Americans story. Sorry. This is mine. The place where I link back to find a pioneer in with a with a stickler claimed begin to claim the African on an endless, even like when I bring people here, some people ars at first. They're just quieted like they don't really want to be there. And then they kind like ease into it. Apache people. I feel like I can't breathe. I feel like I can feel them like outfield, present here. Arms been some people who are just like I still saw peaceful year like it's been almost feels wrong. Feel so peaceful here. Knowing what occurred here so on it is also having come there, private family to think that you have insomnia so often or so were so many years to become the rear of the Hausa like. I can go to Cambridge and not think about Mommy or not. Think about previous times that I went there or in a carrier group of students there or you know, had a funny theory. I one time I went with a friend of mine who like a big guy and in the parking lot of a P car came in like attack. The car are any so he's. You know he's a is being consumers' corner. Those assuming most vicious we got, you know, in climbing on top of the car. I mean, just all kind of things that I'd marked by female going to Kingsley, um year. So remove memories as we go along to insulate, those members are moving barrels loaded with my husband is like my resort we made is delivery storied. Where Eddie's our is home and Sonos also are supposed to absolute misery simply uses? Is that is well on. You know the historian. I also take the long view on things and dumb Soviets also, like, for example, anarchism of the definition, Kingsley or the Kingsley story. I really do think that you know. Say it is a difficult thing right now. I'm guys at the moment. I feel that there is a lot of, um, you know the eyes about noise and extremes immediate action, instant things convention. And I feel at late with seven actively will never understand it, unless you go into nuances into radiations into the undertones. You know, um, step back and reflect less. What exactly was? Is a billion stories. The nice. They really are three ways it. You know, what is it about is Billy? You know, indicators of I, Kingsley being some of the his funny olive branch for us, the, you know something. That's very, very important. Is the mayor just gonna conquer, which is the land? That was it stylish there. And though you know, when you think about it as well net fifty nine CFO, fifty nine am so people that were enslaved. Slurs liberated. Hum given lands in a case, Reddit and years of Labour, thus through nine years of of labor. But at the end, they were given their lands. I really do think that an and having study also, you know how doctor Schafer said, and I agree with having studied more and more that there were a lot of them. Abolitionists tendencies lose. If an AI Kingsley. I've been studying a bit the later years. Understanding you know night. He died here in New York City, taking forty four. It was, so, you know, trying to find exactly where he was. He was in a place that was called Franklin Square. It no longer exists because when they built them Brooklyn bridge overpass, it was in the Navy. The whole area was torn down. But he say they're at. I think he was in a hotel or something at the time of the house. A pinch. I don't know. That's where he died, but he was dealing writing practice three with an agent that was that had a free labor store. It really read the time meant Los labor, but also am worried that was not my kids, not by only the whole free labor movement say was like associating with these people. He was. So when I when I sick, when I think about that, I also think about lake, you know how he also was not late, personally prejudiced against core of black people. I think about it from a Latin American perspective says, well, not from the U S American perspective in which we we have lakes own fluidity in terms of identity earn. So late, I think about I. I used to not go into one direction and understands, you know, I need to really balance balance evil judiciously as you said, I, I, that's alright. Let's play a very good. You know where humans are messy. We are. We're not. We're not. We're not consistent or not, you know. So I really think that that's part of my series as well. And eight. When I when I try to like analyze things, I think that one of the things that he can definitely learn from the story of stuff, nine and Jain, in fact, yeah, like to that people are complicated. Life is complicating. Things are not always what they seem. Things are not one trick bag. Yeah. Here is this summer. You know, while everything was going on in the world, even like I'm in a. I'm in Atlanta, where I live out. My house is like within two miles from the Wendy's. That was the site of all of the Omri hard worker uprising. So I'm Lenora, at least in my house, hearing helicopters for two weeks three, and I'm reading that treat it. And I'm reading. That treat is that he Rose to try and purchase seem you know, to try and persuade his counterparts to, you know, open their minds to a possible new economic way of looking at their economic system. At the same time, as I'm watching all of these corporations and companies come to term and comes the graph with the, you know, lack Rs. You know the lack of diversity, equity, inclusion, no acknowledgement of my contributions and and creative like film, just like all of these things that are making parallels from the past to now. I know for myself. I feel like I have, um, grown in my compassion for possessing. I am an end for Anna, because at first it was just very easy to just look at like just the sort of the timeline in the back and just like, oh, get a forty old man Murray, thirteen or Pearl, you know, protein was warlord. I never saw the lower system on this very outgoing or my perspective, arguably, does I looked at it like in there. I learned, and I understand in the flesh foods of young people. I say like, oh, it was. She was his wife was like, okay, partner else. Does she have a lot of option? I think you know being oriented as a woman as a person of African descent. Mine. Paul was always to her and to understand her story and look at her and even having to grapple with the fact that she was, she has a formerly enslaved people person who then on play. But for me for a long time, just to be honest. He he lived in. My memory is despite owning like, you know, the creepy guy, who, ah. So who started this thing on with this girl who was a girl nine? And then I started to look, you know, like, what would it have taken once he tried to persuade is. Counterparts in a white land, owning other voting man to to go his way. And he failed and realizing that his all his wealth and all his land in on all the things that either your sacrifice or even though they were coming from, you know, the split of other people, brow that he would not be able to to leave them to his guns. So he knows that there is a, um, a settlement in in the Dominican is because he realized that he wanted is for the preservation of his family rojo boost the mood act. Two makes him an even your best that bike he something a little of what you know in. Oh yeah. So looking at him from that perspective, looking at him, I did. You know, this is the way that the world was looking living inside of this economy. He's living inside of this way of doing business. This is the way of the world. And then he has these relationships. These three African women annually have these children, and he's looking for whenever they looking for. You know a place to be a place to be a place to be a place to be with your family. A place to, you know, be the creator of your own reality to to, you know, for failure, destiny. Two so. God help me to like, expand my view of him until to have more compassion for him. Even inside of you know, like when you are like I. You know, I'm a black child of the semi, the pheasant, the back of beautiful people were really claiming their aftermath. It was all about. You know, being having pride and self esteem in your hair. Here is what I vacillate. Are you next door? Which one your hands is why it or even know why is a light skin? Is our info kind of like the question was always like so? Yeah. Why Michael. You're Mercury. When did it start? And so discovering him, an Earth was, like, got an answer. But then the answer just brought more question. Friday I can. I can understand oscillates for me. It was like, oh, I have a black ancestor. You see, come and screw you. It was. I always, I might like I. I think opposite sides of that, but but you know, like, um, late, as I said, like my perspective is as a Latin American prison, and we, you know in that, I. I don't think it was only for the preservation of his family. Because then why would you liberate in a pretty known people there? I do think that. Um. She doesn't remember. He then goes to America in Florida. It was Spanish at the time. Like where black people could own property where freed black people basically had all their rights. Where inflamed my people could consume and their masters, and so did their owners. And whenever the the I held them so that you know, and and for the actors are replete with with who is in play people suing, you know, there was like a different idea also in terms of racial mixing, it was absolutely a completely different idea and Jenna self again. I would never condone I. I I do not share this period of enslaving anyone. Hello. But I'm just saying that at the same time then comes. The Ameri can system which is very binary, which is which does not allow. You're a, you know, a free pie. You not nigger on new lines, nature now museums. And that's what I mean when the and when he tried to convince people to to sort it maintain more into the Spanish system. And he was rejected, and he saw the, you know, the American way, honey, he knew. And this is a direct threat to my family my way of life. My we. I know we can't stay here. Yeah. Um yeah, that's the only reason or that name. Close? Knowledge and action must have mean that is it can't be overlooked. So no, absolutely not. No no, no. Absolutely not. But yeah, I. You know her fur in see room from a lot of different perspectives at the same time in that. You know, I just view. I do think that he was in a process of both over an emancipated. And am dismayed. I think that you have to fail at the end that you know he was doing something bad. In order to like later on be able to, he is fifty nine individuals and their families who were given London. And I I really do believe that that's where it would it would have been headed eventually. I really do think so. Um. I also think that on foot late again. It's it's not defensible at all, you know. But he finally went at slavery as an economic system that a racial one and an economy would make sense because he. He traveled all around the world at the time. And you can see this is not what about autism. But as you can see in Africa, the societies also were holding slaves. Yes. There are differences in terms of like the treatment of slaves in their status. That is true. Fidelity. Everybody had the Arab slave trade, and the trend for heroin was arguably still going on are meeting play South of Hebron. My people Africans are being enslaved today in Mali, in Sudan by you know my by populations of the north. There's no doubt about that silly. You know, those illnesses is very complex. Ah. Yelped. And but I feel that you know at someone that has ancestry from both sides, I can I have this. You know the possibility of analyzing things from two sides. I really really do. I think that you know we are get on even if you're not directly related to the story. Eating beans so many on. The economy's hansbrough contradict you, but also just nuances like it's so much easier more nuanced than the typical way that we are taught to view that period of time or that period of time in our history. And it's relationship to today, yea, or what those sort of typical hear what you learned, basically, there was no typical way that of was Bron or that people were enslaved or that you know you're on. And so just when you may think that, you know, like I know it for myself in the African American community lot of times, people have this old debate or discussion like, why are they still making plays movie. You know, I don't want to see the dramatic images I don't wanna hear. And I'm link, though you really think that you learn everything there is to learn about the thing that was like so in crucial in his adult life to me, like maybe there's. They should be told in a different way or in a more nuanced fashion was just they like enough of that. All genre, we just funny way. I look at it unlike your your your your are Jewish community really, really Greece. Oh Subaru. So I feel like we have hit upon the vast majority of the question without necessarily like going through the list of the question. Um. So you know, like one of the questions were what are your feelings being distant from both? Ah those enslaved people and those who owns a young son office ending us when ad about that. No. I mean, like rivets are a gym were contradictions and a new hit upon it too late in the same like animals animosity. He also was a slave owner is something that she would have grown up with homes for her was not a racial thing thing as well. You know. So this is like it is really, it's own. If Lou contradictions, and and there, that's where the beauty lies in reality, I believe fleas. So I think I can already emphasized, do a move on from now and then and I think you pretty much dead lift of being a Kingsley mean to you. Yeah. I think I reduces lose by religious than one person. You know, better job so for me, I don't. I feel like it expanded my view. Our knowledge of what what family mean you know? Yeah. Um like I wasn't expecting to like I was. I came to Kingsley after I guess you know, you interned in, and I think the heretic was really more about. Gathering defendant. I came. I was already more about just celebrating the history of northeast corridor. Hum and loose change one night when the states over override. Because when I first went there and you have mentioned before you, I was at peak hour span, and there was beer. It was like, and is the chair where he sat down and all that. And then I feel like once the park service took over them. More voices started being heard homes, and then the descendants came around in. Our story, was included to making a bit more like of living space. So I I. I agree with that. And I've seen that changes will really physical such vandalism than that. I was like, oh, know this. This wasn't a peacock mantis was a living he caught on. I know I know gay anymore. They used app. Hi. I missed that whole thanks. I think the first time I ever went to England is probably ninety nine ones. Ninety nine missing so many stories and mix them all up. Yeah. I thought about that, you know, like when used to go there back the M when it was like a states, the Florida. I really don't know what it's called like. These toys are similar similar Florida State park. I never win. I now I went there then when it was transitioning sign painted on national territories, and there was a, and so it was more like this is how this the owners lived, right. So that's difficult with other species is actually, you know, select, you would go there anyway. Seeley and this year was different eyes, and this one was from the other family. It was like furnished as a living. How bad the peak? I fainted when they told the story of the hashing was standing, and now it was like on the on the on top of the Amazon on the ceiling of the dining room. Then there was a peak of man, and then the lady was selling necessarily associate. The place was like, yeah, Forza fan, and it was I a peak. I find a cigar centers, and I, it's only made us there's a solution is moving. I answered, and just like as they image, not enlighten create. Yeah I. I'm grateful that we've come a long way from that. I first came to King. Pleased with the it was Roger Castor was a National Park by my most residents her. And I think that that's just part of the beauty. Is that you know the National Park system include, you know, places reaching go and experience The Majesty of nature? Anybody Yosemite in the Grand Canyon? But you can also go to Stonewall you can also go to Kinsley can also go. You do in a hurry, home and death like so. Here now and there he is looking at how do the fan the system and how it tells be American story like there is not one on. So the last question I think it's on hit onto is that on you're are. Our family includes later by a black ass, best American and African as wide as European arm. And what are your thoughts about? Identity will again come from a Spanish and Latin American viewpoint is our superiors home. So situational, it is very humorous. View us me. How you identify Schrader, either identify as Hispanic whites and Hispanics. Um oh, that whole Hispanic, um. Qualifier is a comfortable saying, because it's kind of allows you to understand, okay. Yeah. My. I'm overwhelmingly European. I went to isolate the DNA, and it turns out I'm like seven percent African and it could be anything from. And then there were suggestions, but it could be anything like less than three points level seven and three points more than a, you know, depend on the algorithm and love it. Just give you a general idea of of of you where you stand and so late when you are Hispanic and white. And you understand is, is, it's a very different thing, because it means that we are very well aware of how their backgrounds. And it's something that I think more and more like you know in the United States is happening written on more armed, less people largest lake, embracing more aspects of their identity rather than just Geno relationship. You know, this dichotomy, Holmes. My idea that I mean, you know, like taking all of those aspects into consideration. I'm very aware and speak about on the stereo of Anna all the time. Really? I'm. I'm very proud of of data on both sides of the family. Um. I think it's really cool. Though that you have been able to go go to Senegal in an index analyze that actually does more. I lived in London. I. I actually was able to go to the literature. Say Marylebone, London, where surprisingly, senior marry a housewife, and so that was a really interesting thing. I've been also. I suppose there is more your arguments or evidence on that site is. It's a bit easier in that sense to be able to. Ah. I recently also am studying like the young, the loyalist aspect of different items. The senior you know. He was in in South Carolina. They arrived before the revolution. On doomed where by the way, which is also like an interesting thing, because I am an immigrant from the Dominican Republic? Hear the same time I guess is, you know proudly say that, you know, like my family arrived in this country before the revolution you can from Nikki assets. I think that's pretty cool. You know, ends life when you're into the air. It's interesting when people both like Italy of the U S is part of my ancestral plays rather than an stayed in the S and is by. So I am still a I recently I've done. I've been working on documenting everything from me. The ass, every generation for me in my mom's in mind, you know, like through all kinds of documents, haven't been easy and so on. I got ah. This is a United Empire Loyalists Association certificate certified you menacingly as provided a documentary evidence. In the central different accusing was a United Empire Loyalists and so on. You know, she sent for me again. Your life you can use do so many sides to the story that you can just feel crowded and and really just going to our family was basically this means is that this man's economic, usually senior really during the revolution stayed loyal to to to what he as his country, which was a Great Britain to the crown was able to, you know, C he was, she suffered a great deal. He lost a lot of his properties. He was imprisoned three times and went to Canada. And you know like these people basically started English. Speaking Canada like when people say Canada's awesomely and I don't have a pretty siphoning silly. They you know how you become law still in there. One is because these Americans went there the loyal the young United Empire Loyalists, and they basically started English speaking Canada and ask myself. Americans U S American history, Canada. So although these stories are are are super interesting, and I love the human, I love them. I mean, I think that guy dream is the name of the posting again. I think that you know we have on. We have this common link, and we also sometimes divergent approaches. You know where we're coming from is very afraid of iffy. And we each can see something that speaks to us in cost to us in this story and go. I mean like Dan is, that is the beauty of it on. And we can see the ways in which knowing this story have impacted an enriched. And sometimes complicated enough, both of our lie and says, does our philosophy. The thing like Pearl salubrious, those eyes remind us exactly. So it's been a great pain pleasure to speak with you again. Cutler. Yeah. We would buy me a lot with three. Maybe some day and I am not Bara, hopefully. Massless future, we can all go back to kingly and Musa Red army southern in one I enjoy. Oh yes. I would love that. Gather under the terms, so we are over time, and I'm thankful to. Fossil fuels is charged, dabbled in keep in touch. And I hope that from now on our is taking something from this. In addition to largest economies to be able to talk reconsider years and ended big Rangers well to the National Park Service does a really good care of gender translation. Peri Francis and Emanuel. Thank you so much for joining us today or virtual occasionally hears in celebration and for sharing your stories and thank you to visitors for listening for more information, you can visit us at and TS. Dot Gov flash. I am you or you can come on out to Kingsley plantation. We are open right now. Wednesday through Sunday from nine am to five pm.
Description
Kingsley family descendants Peri Frances Betsch and Emanuel Kingsley talk about history, family, and heritage in this interview recorded for the 2021 Kingsley Heritage Celebration.
Credit
NPS
Date Created
02/18/2021
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