Audio
Episode 3.4 - Early American Indian History in the Susquehanna National Heritage Area
Transcript
. [National Heritage Areas Podcast Episode 3.4: Early American Indian History in the Susquehanna National Heritage Area]
[Instrumental music]
Peter: This is Peter Samuel. I’m the Program Manager for the National Heritage Areas Program of the National Park Service here in the Northeast Region. Today I’m here with Jules Long. Hi, Jules.
Jules: Hi, Peter. I was just out in the Susquehanna National Heritage Area, here in Pennsylvania. It is a brand new National Heritage Area.
Peter: You’re right. Brand new. We had six new National Heritage Areas in the bill that was passed [signed] in March [2019].
Jules: It’s located down in York County and Lancaster County, and the name ‘Susquehanna comes from the Susquehanna River, which runs right between them. So this area was actually designated a Pennsylvania state heritage area all the way back in 2001.
Peter: Right.
Jules: It’s managed by Susquehanna Heritage, which is a nonprofit organization.
Peter: Yeah, I was invited down to the Susquehanna Heritage Area in 2006 because they were interested in becoming a National Heritage Area. And from that point on they were trying to get designated as a National Heritage Area—it took them almost 13 years to get designated, which is pretty amazing.
Jules: Yeah, definitely. I really wanted to go down there and see what they have been doing, how things will change now that they are a National Heritage Area, and also to find out more how they’ve been working with the Captain John Smith Chesapeake National Historic Trail. So they actually started working with the National Park Service before becoming a National Heritage Area, kind of a cool story there. It’s got lots of cool history, also the river is gorgeous.
Peter: It is, it’s beautiful.
Jules: So I was able to meet a bunch of people there at the Zimmerman Center for Heritage. That’s the visitor center for both the National Heritage Area and the National Historic Trail. I talked to Paul Nevin with Susquehanna Heritage, and Jackie Kramer with the National Park Service.
Peter: When you were recording, I know you were outside, right by the river, and there’s some great natural sounds in the background with your recording.
Jules: Yeah, all the happy birds. They were really happy to be out there by the river, and it was beautiful.
Peter: It was. So let’s go.
[Musical interlude]
Jules: First, we’ll here from Paul Nevin, manager of the Zimmerman Center for Heritage.
[Instrumental music]
[Ambient outdoor noises throughout: birdsong, leaves rustling, and occasionally automotive traffic]
Jules: So, we're sitting here along the side of the Susquehanna River, which is quite a large river—I'm kind of surprised, it's a lot larger than what I'm used to seeing—next to this beautiful old bridge that connects the towns of Columbia in Lancaster County to Wrightsville in York County. And this land has been home to people for thousands and thousands of years. And I’ve learned that there’s something especially unique about this part of the Susquehanna River, it’s the Lower Susquehanna.
Paul: It has a different character than the rest of the Susquehanna River. It runs most of its length very slow and shallow. When it gets to this last part, the last 50 miles before it enters the Chesapeake Bay, the topography changes drastically. The river flows fast, it runs deeper, it has high hillsides.
Jules: It’s beautiful and green right now. A great place to live and to find all those things you need to live. Some of the early people who lived along the river, they left behind something pretty cool. And not a lot of people know about this: Petroglyphs.
Paul: For some reason, people chose this short stretch of the Susquehanna to create rock art, or petroglyphs, which are images that are carved into the surface of a rock. When most people think of petroglyphs, they think of the American Southwest. They're fairly common out there. When you get to the Northeast United States, they're very rare. To give you an idea of how unique this this area is, the Susquehanna River is 444 miles long. All of the petroglyph sites are within a 25- mile stretch of river, within the Susquehanna National Heritage Area.
Jules: Only 25 miles.
Paul: 25 miles, on the river, nowhere else.
Jules: And there are hundreds of them, right?
Paul: There have been literally thousands of them recorded.
Jules: Thousands.
Paul: Two of the three major sites are now submerged, but there is still one significant site that can be visited today. And that’s one of the most significant sites in the Northeast.
Jules: So to get to that area, I understand you have to take a boat, a canoe?
Paul: Right. The petroglyph sites were never easy to get to. Before the dams were built, the water was swift, fast, really could be a very hazardous place to be. The nature of the river protects them because they're not easy to access,
Jules: Mm-hmm.
Paul: But we're fortunate that because of the placement of the dams, there’s this one area that still retains its natural river level. This is the place that we can visit.
Jules: Describe what it looks like for me.
Paul: The petroglyph sites at Safe Harbor are an almost magical place. You're surrounded by the high river hills. You're in a basin. You have a great view of the sky. You're in this place where the earth, the water, the sky meet. It's a place that I think you can come and really feel close to nature, close to the earth.
Jules: That sounds really beautiful.
Jules: The petroglyphs themselves, are they patterns or pictures? Do we know what they mean?
Paul: We can’t read the rock art like a book. Most of what we gather from them is really just inferred from other sites that we can identify with. But our best guess with these is that they were probably made, created maybe 800 or 1,000 years ago, before the people who gave the river its name, Susquehanna, were actually even in this area. They seem to be have been made by Algonquin people. They're similar to rock art that you find up in the Great Lakes region up into the Canadian Shield. So we can get a little bit of an idea of what they mean, why they were placed there, by doing some ethnographic research on survivor communities in other parts of the Northeast United States.
Jules: Mm-hmm.
Paul: Each one of these sites is a different style of designs, petroglyph designs, from very abstract to representational images of animals and humans, bird tracks, four-legged animals, other symbols. You know, things that were important to them.
Jules: So we're going to talk about the Susquehannock people, who shared that name with the river, the Susquehanna. But that was after these petroglyphs were created.
Paul: We have to remember that these generations of people were here on this land for so long before the folks who would write the history arrived. So we can only get little glimpses of who these people were. We think that the people who created the petroglyphs were either displaced or absorbed into the Susquehannock community. The Susquehannock community only arrived on the Lower Susquehanna in the 1550s, mid-1500s.
Jules: So we know that in the early 1600s, the Native American people who were here were not the same ones as those who created the petroglyphs. They were people that we know today as the Susquehannock. We know that name through European settlers, colonists, who explored the area—specifically John Smith from England, who explored the Chesapeake Bay region and came up the river, the Susquehanna River, and met quite a few different American Indian tribes, although not the Susquehannock themselves. What’s the story behind that?
Paul: John Smith is known for his explorations of the Chesapeake Bay. He made this wonderful map that features a Susquehannock man and his attire, the most prominent image on his map. But John Smith couldn't bring his boat up the Susquehanna. It was swift, it was rocky, it was shallow. As he was exploring the Bay, he would encounter from time to time American Indians who were already living on its shores. And these people often spoke of this mighty people who lived a two-day journey from the point where the Susquehanna empties into the Chesapeake. The American Indians along the Bay had been trading with these people for years for European goods. They saw them [the Susquehannock] as a formidable people. And John Smith wanted to meet them. The river was too shallow for his boat, it ran fast. He sent representatives a two-day journey just about to where we are sitting now. And there they encountered these people and invited them to the mouth of the river to meet with John Smith. The people along the Bay that John Smith encountered called this mighty group of Native Americans who lived on the Susquehanna “Sasquesahanoughs.” And that name is where the name Susquehanna, Susquehannock, is derived. We don't know what the Susquehannock people called themselves.
Jules: Why is that?
Paul: We get little bits and pieces of history. The only image that we have of the Susquehannock is the image on John Smith’s map. That's the only one. We only know a couple of the words in their vocabulary. We think that they may have called themselves something more similar to “Kanastoge,” which is the name of another river in this area, the Conestoga. The documents don't talk about daily life of these people, how they lived, how they dressed.
Jules: Because these were from the perspective of the European colonists.
Paul: The Susquehannock people left the scene so to speak so early on in this nation's history that there wasn't the time to learn more about these people. You know, John Smith encountered them in 1608. By 1680 they had been decimated as a people and left this place they had called their home, and came back and really lived as just a shadow of their former selves. They had gone from living in towns of 3,000 people to, when they returned and lived at the place we know of as Conestoga Indiantown, there were only a couple hundred. Conestoga Indiantown, even though it was a remnant group of the Susquehannock people, it was still an important place where representatives of the new American colonies would come for treaty sessions between various tribes in the Northeast up into New York [and] down into Maryland. And one of the most significant treaty sessions was one that was held in 1744. In that session, an Onondaga diplomat by the name of Canasatego offered some words of advice to the representatives from the Colonies who were gathered there. And what he told them was, ‘Our wise forefathers established Union and Amity between the Five Nations; this has made us formidable; this has given us great Weight and Authority with our neighboring Nations. We are a powerful Confederacy; and, by your observing the same Methods our wise Forefathers have taken, you will acquire fresh Strength and Power; therefore whatever befalls you, never fall out one with another.’ And what he's saying is they had the Iroquois Confederacy, where a group of separate people joined together to become stronger. He was offering this advice to the Colonies. Canasetego spoke those words in 1744. In 1778, Continental Congress met in York, 20 miles from the 1744 treaty session, and they signed the Articles of Confederation, which was the first time that the words “United States of America” were used. This concept that had been offered those years ago by the Native people were finally heeded by the colonies.
Jules: Mm-hmm.
Paul: For many years, there has been a ‘convenient’ ending to the story of the American Indians of the Lower Susquehanna. In 1763, there was a massacre of the final remnants of the Conestoga in Lancaster. And so it's easy to say that this was the point where the Susquehannock became ‘extinct.’ We know that's not true. We know that the Susquehannock people had strong cultural ties with the Five Nations, the Iroquois. And when things got really difficult for the Susquehannock people on the Lower Susquehanna, many of them traveled to the other nations and became part of those communities.
Jules: And there are still descendants of the Susquehannock people today. There's no descendant community—no tribe known as the Susquehannock—but there are Susquehannock descendants in the Onondaga tribe, for example, part of the Haudenosaunee people, the Iroquois Confederacy.
Paul: There are people here that can make that claim, legitimate claim, that they are descended from the Susquehannock people.
Jules: Still living in this area.
Paul: Still living in this area.
Jules: So now I understand that at the Zimmerman Center for Heritage, students come in—come into the Center, and they learn about the history of this area, they learn about the river, and they learn about the Susquehannock people.
Paul: We have been—by we, I mean Susquehanna Heritage, have been very fortunate. We’re able to bring fourth graders from school districts on either side of the Susquehanna River to the Zimmerman Center to learn some of the stories that the river has to share.
Paul: One of the things that I really enjoy is to just be able to have the kids out in nature for a while. I've had students behind me say things like: ‘This is the first hike I've ever been on.’ ‘My parents don't like to come outside.’ We do a stream study where they can test the health of streams flowing into the river. They can examine some of the life that lives in the river. And we also expose them to the lives of the American Indians who occupied so much of the time that humans have been on the Susquehanna.
Paul: We share stories of how these people lived; that they didn't live in teepees, they lived in long houses. That they lived in towns. That in their society women were these leaders, women had the final say in in that society. The idea that they were farmers, that they weren't just going to the woods and living on nuts and berries; that these people practiced agriculture on a massive scale, that they ate more corn than deer and fish. That just dispels a lot of the preconceptions that they might have coming in. One of my one of my favorite exercises is to give the students a sense of how long people have been living on the Susquehanna River. I had a Native elder tell me one time that “to your culture 500 years is all of history. But to our culture, 500 years is just a flash of lightning.” What we do is we make a timeline. We take a trip into the past. We start at the present day, and we start walking through one of the trails at Native Lands County Park, the site of one of the Susquehannocks’ communities. And as we walk down the path, I say, “Okay, every inch that we walk, we’ll be going back one year in time. So, how old are you?” “I'm 10.” “Okay, let's go back to the day you were born. Stop. That is your lifetime.”
Jules: Ten inches.
Paul: “I'm a little older than you. Let's go back to the day I was born. That's a little longer, a generation. Let's keep walking.” We walk back 500 inches. Well, that's when John Smith met the Susquehannock. From here on out, this is the Native history, this is the history of the American Indians. And we keep walking for another 12,000 inches—almost four football fields.
Jules: Wow.
Paul: And I say, “Okay, now let's think. Stand side-by-side, spread your arms wide. Each one of you is one generation. Just think, how many generations lived on this land before we arrived?
Paul: When you know the story of the land, you take ownership of it. You become better stewards of it. It's part of your life. You're not apart from nature, you're part of nature. And so this is a place where we can look at the past, see where we are today, and set a tone for where we want to go in the future.
Jules: Yeah, definitely.
Paul: It's a great opportunity for us to share the stories of the Susquehanna. It's not as well known as many rivers in the United States, but it is a wonderful river. It has stories to tell. It's an important river. And to be able to share those stories—I think it benefits the community that we live in, and it's inspiring to people who come to visit.
Jules: Yeah, I think it really is. Hopefully as a new National Heritage Area that will help these stories spread even more. Thank you so much for meeting with me today, Paul, and keep up the great work.
Paul: We will.
[Instrumental music]
Jules: Now we’re hear from Jackie Kramer, who works with the National Park Service for the Captain John Smith Chesapeake National Historic Trail. She’ll tell us more about the trail, what makes it so special and the history behind it, and why this location in Pennsylvania is about fifty miles south of here.
[Instrumental music]
Jules: So Jackie, tell me what you do.
Jackie: Well, I am an outdoor recreation planner. But I also do things like be a Park Ranger some days because of the relationship we have with Susquehanna Heritage and the activities that we do with them.
Jules: So you get to wear your Park Service uniform and lead the kids around on field trips?
Jackie: Yes, I do.
Jules: Cool. What do you think is the most important think about your work?
Jackie: For me, the most important thing is the fact that I have the opportunity to tell people who live in these communities—and actually who come from outside these communities—the importance of the Susquehanna River and the Chesapeake Bay.
Jules: So you’re working with the Captain John Smith Chesapeake National Historic Trail—what is that?
Jackie: Well, the trail is the first National Historic Trail that's on the water, which is—makes it very unique. It has really three themes to it. The first one is the stories of the American Indians who lived here prior to the Europeans arriving. We concentrate on the stories of the American Indian tribes who were in the Chesapeake Bay watershed, primarily those in the major rivers or tributaries of the Chesapeake Bay. The second theme is the voyage of Captain John Smith, his voyages that he took during 1607 and 1608 to learn more about the tributaries and the Chesapeake Bay. And then the third theme of the trail is the natural resources of the trail, of the Chesapeake Bay and its rivers.
Jules: It's great to have all of that: history, culture, and nature. I understand the Susquehanna—it’s a, you know, a very large river. It was a really important waterway with trade in the whole region from New York, where it begins, all the way down through Pennsylvania and Maryland to the Chesapeake.
Jackie: So the Trail includes all the major tributaries of the Chesapeake Bay. So, like, the James River, the York River, Potomac River. It includes the entire Susquehanna River, although Captain John Smith was only able to get to about where the Conowingo Dam is now because of the falls that are there. He met an Indian tribe called the Tockwoghs. And they had European good s and he asked them where they got them. They said, ‘Well, we got them from the Susquehannock.’ So the Tockwoghs went up to the Susquehannock village, which was right across the river from here [and] got the Susquehannock to come down to meet John Smith. And they become a major part of his journals. So the reason why the Trail includes the Susquehanna, the entire Susquehanna River, because of that American Indian story. The American Indian story is so important to our country's history. We have the opportunity to tell that story through the John Smith Chesapeake Trail.
Jules: The trail itself—the Captain John Smith Chesapeake National Historic Trail—the trail started working with Susquehanna Heritage before it became a National Heritage Area. How did that happen? How did that relationship start?
Jackie: Well, the Chesapeake Bay Office were looking to improve public access, have communities understand about the resources that were important to the Chesapeake Bay. So they created Chesapeake Bay Gateways Network. As part of that system, Susquehanna Heritage created the lower Susquehanna River Water Trail. Basically what that does is help give people itineraries so that they know how to appropriately paddle the river and experience its resources and its history.
Jackie: The other thing that the Chesapeake Bay office started to do was create this interpretive signage program to, again, educate people about the Chesapeake Bay watershed and the importance of the rivers to the Bay and its health. So Susquehanna Heritage also got involved in that program, and the Chesapeake Bay Office funded a series of interpretive signs all along the Lower Susquehanna River.
Jules: Where the Park Service—where you work, where you have your base—it’s called the Zimmerman Center for Heritage, owned by Susquehanna Heritage. What's the history of this building?
Jackie: Zimmerman Center was built, they believe, sometime in the 1750s. We don't have an exact date. You have to realize that in the 1700s, this was the wilderness. It was one of the earliest homes built along the Susquehanna River. Eventually the Zimmerman family purchased the house, and they are the ones who undertook this restoration of the property to sort of bring it back to its 1750s roots. Susquehanna Heritage was looking for a location for their offices on the river, closer to Lancaster County. So to make a long story short, the Zimmermans decided that they wanted to gift the house to Susquehanna Heritage.
Jackie: The Chesapeake Bay Office decided to establish a visitor contact station here. It’s right on the river, and in addition to that, Native Lands County Park sits directly behind the Zimmerman Center. Native Lands County Park is the last known major settlement of the Susquehannock in this area. So it gave us the opportunity to tell the story about the river and tell the story of the American Indians right in one place.
Jules: Yeah, that’s great. Now the National Historic Trail and Susquehanna Heritage work together, doing field trips and the Junior Ranger program. Will anything change now that Susquehanna is a National Heritage Area?
Jackie: Well certainly that gives us more opportunities to reach out to other partners. It's just an opportunity for us to do more together.
Jules: Cool. Thank you so much, Jackie, for sitting down with me today and talking about your work.
Jackie: Thank you very much.
[Instrumental music]
Peter: Thanks, Jules, that was a great episode. I really appreciate all the hard work you’ve put into that, and all the other episodes you’ve done. Unfortunately, we have to bid you farewell, and you’re moving on to other jobs, I know.
Jules: Thanks! I wish I could spend more time here. It’s been great getting to know all this time with the National Heritage Areas, learning about all the awesome things they do – they really are pretty awesome. But… the program will live on without me.
Peter: [laughter] Yes, indeed. Well, thanks a lot, and farewell.
Jules: Thank you.
[Instrumental music]
Jules: The interviews in this episode were recorded on site in Wrightsville and Columbia in the Susquehanna National Heritage Area in Pennsylvania. The episode was produced by the National Park Service Northeast Regional Office in Philadelphia. We’d like to thank James Farrell for providing the music. Thank you for listening to the National Heritage Areas Podcast.
Description
In Episode 3.4 of the National Heritage Areas Podcast, Jules visits the newly designated Susquehanna National Heritage Area in Pennsylvania to learn about the early American Indian history of the Lower Susquehanna River and find out more about the National Heritage Area’s partnership with the Captain John Smith Chesapeake National Historic Trail.
Duration
27 minutes, 32 seconds
Credit
NPS Northeast Region
Date Created
08/28/2019
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