Audio
Descendants Peri Frances Betsch and Bouna Sémou Ndiaye Legacy Interview
Transcript
Hello and welcome to virtual Kingsley heritage celebration today. We will hear from Peri Frances Bestch and Bouna Semou Ndiaye descendants of our family heritage and the meaning of legacy. Bouna Peri Francie welcome. Fifteen were nine die underneath my. You see negative number. Nine mine, see. How is this is the you that you believe in again? I'm happy to have this trend. Is minute conversation today? Though most exciting so on the first question or are against the listeners is what is your connection with an eye Kingsley for Zephyr, nine Kingsley, who is Anna Kingsley, are under much again guy to you have year a church value. My relationship with Anna in the lives, love and a yellow Mark. One is on my mother's side and the other one. He's on my father's side. I was stabbed with my mother site. I am the son of flats to enjoy more. But today more wide we have to have have more. Is that her father is more mildly? Same day, Mama listen. Guy was shiftless Council of Bucky Melissa gays. Mother is Lisa Dillon Jimmy. And this I and me is the son of Byram Jamie guessing. And Dylan on I sin is the son of Butler Adams, Seattle in Philadelphia. A is the son of my up where Kinsey, from all my friends aside my father is Debra fighting. Yea disease. And even putting guys mother is particularly gay day. Dakota gay is the daughter of but by Yasin. But I assume is the son of matter someone away. In Madison. Bloody either son of my. Bring a book. So you see them both came from neighbouring Abu as well as an American guy Kinsey. So on all, let me see if I got this both your father's side and your mother's eyes. You are descended from her. Believe are her parents her best. Okay. What gave little my booting up? La Bodega enabled. Hannah has three siblings of same size the same mother. Could you imagine player? Good. I am legend player. A limp couldn't wait to get back. But all of them percent of Muslim mumbling in DC pizza. Okay. In Iran is a direct father and mother relationship to us, but all of them came from mobile number. Which is on top of guys here for fears? So fast, like the literal sense, you know, the actual genealogical chart. I am also, and not just in terms of like a symbol or a feeling or I'm like, why does the story of on how much you enjoy are indistinctly mean to you. Well if Kosovo is is is a joy to find a long lost sibling. You can learn a lot about slavery and all those kinds of things and not thinking about maybe your own ancestor sort of what happened, but once you find that out, then you somehow try to overcome the feeling of sadness, but want to know more about what happened. An does does the school the feeling that I have. And then you learn more engines. You feel proud of seeing her still keeping something a legacy even though she was a it. There is always something there that is remaining that major stand tall ramps yours. Yes. Think you might ask well for me. Ah. I don't have a choice. Excuse me. So am I know my data under much enjoy or Anna. Kingsley is my belief. Seven great grandmother. So oh, Anna on you get a stream had thought Anna, simply antagonizing me had a daughter. Mary Francis them in Mary. Frances. Change with them. She married John them. They so they're grim. John salmons, and Mary Kingsley grand daughter. The great granddaughter is Mary, Frances. Dammit Lewis, who married Abraham Lincoln Louis Abraham Lincoln. Louis is my great great grandfather. So he is the founder of American beach. He was the on one of the leaders of the Afro American life insurance company. He's a person of of some importance in Jacksonville by history. But he married into the Kingsley damage. Enjoy family, because he's his first wife was the great granddaughter of definite at night and indistinctly. And I am is or there. Great. Great granddaughter. So that is the connection. So my grandmother was Mary, Frances Lewis. Batch. And that is why I am Harry. Francis fetch so on so Sue me who Amis Kingsley is is, um, you know, very few lifestyle. You know, it's a rare air up here. There are very few on people of African descent living in the Americas who connection only name that person. Then you know who can call the name of that ancestor that made die as that voyage that too fast. Trip then transferred our identity from African to African Americans of knees. Use my link swastika. She is the person that enables me to know. Um not just a continent, but or even a country, but and as they grew up. Oh oh. Kingdom a nation state of language group of culture. Das I. I'm late to. So she is a very special cherish person on to me, though. Our next question? Ah is? Can you tell me a little bit about how you found out that you were related to the Kingsley abilities, insisting a long story University of Chicago professor? Who lived in North Carolina? His name is doctor Gerald Han historian. A liar there. During the black history month, one year sent me a link of the celebration happening at the Kingsley plantation. Knowing that I am gay. She saw that they may be some connection. Okay. So I read it guy, okay, and I'm questioning myself? It is okay. Black history month. I'm very inquisitive. Four silver, black history month. Why. Black history. Month and have started doing research. I used to see a lived with John. Hope. Franklin historian. So I am familiar with some things that he has done. So I started going through black history month. Why? Black history month access to and I went to the web page of black history month, and I saw about thirty two forty people. I mean, African American women elites with their biographies in of the century autobiographies, an ethical was named but place. One was Barack Obama and the other one was Nelson Mandela. Okay. So Adkisson Dean and then I went to Lucca, some senses about eye damage again, guy casually where she was in Cuba. How many people pay taxes how many children she bore? And then I learned about the book written about her as somebody other the library. Show me the book. And the later I spoke to the rider, and then he told me about our family, our siblings in different parts of the world from the Dominican Republic to England to nothing. And then I saw in his book that he went to. I was only gonna empire and met with the bigger the sub grills of that area, and I know this was done something random, and that's what made me be more and more interested in knowing more and more about. And that's how I found out about Anna Kingsley. And my relationship is about you. So I found out about my relationship to an end in. Please enter a from my asked my Auntie Navin, who was on many, many things on people around Fernandina island, know her as the beach late the American beach and Marvin was very like you very inquisitive. She was very much on. Email on a scholarship would read up and research thing, all different things that were in her body of interest from nature and the environment and animals in history in African history, in African American history. And she was very passionate about obesity an on she she would always tell me you. You have to meet Roger Carroll. Roger hero, Roger in general. So I I met my really, was coming to no monkeying around the age of like eighteen, nineteen twenty. I did not grow up in Jacksonville. So she was I ahead of me a lot of people. So I somehow in my mind thought that Roger and Carol some more cousin or relative. And I came to find out know, is, where is the Ranger and King. Do you think legalization at that time? They were zoo superintendent of of Kingsley plantation. Um. And she was also say, oh, you gotta meet Schaefer, you gotta meet Shaffer Schaefer was doctor Jacob Schaefer, who's the man who wrote the book then spoke about. But I feel like on the connection that I had was Mcbean enabled a connection with on tough that has followed me for now some nouns twenty five years because she had told me the story on has she is said to me, I think at that time Shavers book was not actually a book yet. It was still in pamphlet form. And um, there was a woman who had been a really close friend of my father's. My father, as you know, is a jazz musician and he lived in Paris. Oh? But has he has met a woman who was working at the Village Vanguard in New York. And she was from Copenhagen, and her name was built a Fisher, and at some point in time, said the Fisher left New York, she came to Florida. She was studying. I. I don't know whether that you now or ass anyway. She was just completing her her study, and she took a class that included Shavers work, Shapers pamphlet. And so she wrote, she also knew movies. You know the beach lady. Because she knew that that was my dad's sister. And they had developed a relationship, so she wrote her kind of term paper about. The Cambridge connection to the Lewis batch family, and I happened to get in on. Hello from Mommy with Shavers pamphlet and then does term paper. These was December. I believe of ninety ninety seven or ninety ninety eight, and she sent it to me at my father's house in Paris, because I was there for Christmas in route to Senegal. I was already on my way to Senegal. You know, the French major in undergrad. I was really interested in like the nigger to literary movement. And is there an answer on the job and all the things I really wanted to go to Panama? At that point, I really had some. Foggy the idea that there was some connection, but I've got that term paper. Read the paper. Read that pamphlet. And within five days of receiving it, I was at eyes so to me, it was very, um, you know, Legos of naming synchronicity to receive a confirmation yet got factual data. And then be in that lane where I know you know she. She walked in in that them was. So basically, the short answer is Thurman on Monday. The long answer is your beneficiary. And I think hunter much again by herself. Good too. So the next question I have for you and appointed you have anything you wanna say or chime in on any of my responses or anything? I know you have, you know, always interesting reflection the toilet or lifting that of us kids above what I had to say with it. I wrote an article about black history month African American history. Where are the Africans were an article about it? Oh it's just what is saw against. I wanna tell you because I know you other people are that it's newest amazing tattoo on where in North Carolina and new John hope. Franklin. I'm speaking to you from my mother's passed. The National Tennessee about a block away from me is the John hope. Franklin library at the University. John hope. Franklin knew my my son, my mother's side. He was a pall bearer at my grandfather's funeral. They were friends, though. We're all is bright. There's no getting around it. We're all connected. So so what has some of your personal research on your family allowed you to discover? He raises vision with a job that I showed you. That's what it has allowed you to discover the all no sense. We are related every game from the same source here released near you. Anna and myself, okay. However the. And so here we had when I called oral tradition as you know, so does the Rios who can tell us. And then you fly to cross reference. Whatever information you get from here and there, and we have a family girl who has also informed Schaeffer. And then other people who know and were old enough to also know that something may be right, over, unfamiliar be right. And I've met all those people and does less less. It came down to giving credibility to the charge that I showed you. Yes. I'm sorry you did. You know your family history then traced it back to arm robbery in trouble before. But you just didn't know where that she was apart of death. Not at all. Actually I didn't even know analyst other, yo say what you know is. Who is your ass as your grandfather have we on? And you know, you go to a family and is it oh, you're such and such in. And they they give you all your limits. And it was really that important to me for somebody. Tell me that you just from nobility or whatever it is. Oh you know is people will tell you such such grew up on your grandfather's house or court over. Rejoice and it it places you somewhere. There's some little sense of pride that you get out of it, too. If for people who believe in them, but it missed it doesn't make you go above all that. Because you're not a historian, you an incentive, your honor. But then when the story of black history month came around, and then this lady named language education, gay guy, Kingsley. You had to find out what is happening, him animal young guy and my grandfather, whom I love. And then how you have to go and climb up the ladder until you can connect the dots. Justices will happen. Acts coming in now. My me on my first while my personal research on my family allows me to discover allowed me to still discover. Senegal allows me to travel around than a God looking for the descendant of the siblings of under my began die at that time. I didn't know of view because you were in North Carolina and I was in Dhaka. It's on, you know. That was a very important, significant time in my life was like ninety seven to around two thousand that I was going back and forth to Seneca a lot, and, um. Even if it wasn't specific details to put on a tree, even just being there and learning about the culture and new in fashion history and needing people and on, you know, it was an amazing time was very young and very much like an adventure on. At the time. I was a teacher. I was able to bring high school student to Senegal on a traveled around. Because I mean that you know, when you when you come as a tourist you pretty much in on like Dakar. I think Lee maybe send me, but you don't go like into the inferiors. Who little town you don't? You know I went to Xinjiang for your farm. I went to new government to rupees than went to all the places that were kind of off the beaten path that may be, you know, unless you were on. A historian or an aid worker or really like I'm an American. You wouldn't necessarily just stumble upon them. But I was there about looking for the the traces of of honor. Also my personal research allowed me to discover you on hikes. I think it was the park service. It allowed me to discover new put on also allowed me to really. I understand my connection, like I said, I didn't grow up in Jacksonville. So um. I knew that my Dad was from there. I knew that you know. His family was prominent in the founding of American beach by never really had like a fool for Jacksonville Jacksonville. Because I went. Oh. I just come and go directly to the island to hang out with my aunt Maureen. And then I was Jack on the highway from extra Lana. Go even you know finding an upgrade, stay in Arlington or knowing that there was a mother on home in what is now orange orange park on or Bay Meadows are know. I've been all of these places. Some of them went out knowing where Anna are his. A Neo was like, even before. I knew the story. I had already been to the Dominican Republic and the part of the been through the part of the Dominican back on they settled, which was then Haiti. Oh. I've been to Saint Thomas, which is where one listened for. He was before he settled in in Florida, was almost like. I've been drawn to these places where they were even without knowing that that was why, though on. Yeah. So it is allowed me to discover a whole different world. You know, I, um, I grew up in the seventies on as you know, an African American child ended in seventy black was beautiful, and people were very much in this resurgence of discovering bear on their history. I went to a live a small small little child went to a school called New world today school and we used to thing on lift every voice and sing every morning instead of the pledge of allegiance. I didn't know that, you know. James Weldon Johnson author was connected to Jacksonville. Um you know we would do these seasons used to do. Please report great profiles in courage in new research on different figures for for black history month, but throughout the year, and we always beats holds that you know, you are the descendants from King and Queen. In I everything to this post, your theories that was sponsored by Budweiser, and we had beautiful art by Leo and Diane Dillon. And and by great kings and Queens of Africa and those be in month month will sign Queen in Zion. All these things been. So you high man believed it, but then you kind of feel like well. Maybe that's just. You know, the part of the whole like Douglas theme encourage men cry, black pride thing, and then then learn the story of under months you can die in hurling into my life. Wow. They weren't lying, etc, sugar. Is it really was what they said that it was? I mean, of course not for everybody. That's so rang. True to what I had been taught since a small child, but not ever thinking that you would be able to, you know, call the me anything. When is something that I have discovered space to other? Why is young young? Which is the capital city, was the capital city of the yellow Empire? I've never been to Union before until when I led a delegation. Geoffrey was one of them at the members about thirty people, and I were the interpreter when they went to young young. I've never been the. And before I knew about young young that say, outgoing guys headquartered was vicious towards the King of the dollar empire. But that was about it. I live a little went there until I sat it being this having this particular interest about an hour because I'm planning to make a movie about Anna and my relationship, the only reason I'm alone, but also with the communities. After gonna do she in their connection is Silica as a whole, the is need the heating eating habits, the culinary arts. I mean, they lose the tie. Dyes all those kind of things will be included in the movie. Sissy well. And that's what made me travel from place to another and what got me actually last year to the plantation and met you. How many years were we talking on? The phone or on staff are on Facebook or via text before we actually met. Virginia's thirteen year. Old years is so valleys misses the next. My my real nice question is what took you so long? Like okay. So my next question is, what does Kingsley plantation mean to you? What did you feel when you visited now that that does first of all? In the place, I am fortunate enough to find out who one of my ancestors is. Yeah. When I came to visit the plantation Ella, you explain to me although things the dwelling and I went to the house when to different cottages, an area, then ashes to go with you to the cemetery. Alright. Right. You explain to me why she'd ever have any his tombstone an offense after then obligated to pray for her? Remember that I was dismayed to holding like a phone camera like interviewing you, and when you told me why she gonna have to store. And after the island to pray for her, I knelt down, forgetting to turn off my camera, and I started praying a you in an offensive, very, very lonely. I started really crying and I didn't want you to see me cry. I'm Heidi. I stood up trying to show my back to you to go away in my. It was taking most gloomy feeling. Can men looked lady at that camera? I saw my fears rolling down my cheeks. That's how powerful the connection was at the time it was a very, very heavy, a moving experience for me and asking them that means that this is the place for me to come back, because this is where my SSC is. Yes yes. What about you? Wow. So that would mean that whole experience of being able to go with you to a Christian cemetery. And so have you see as King players is when anja metal was the keynote. And all of that was so amazing. Bestow magical on. I vowed to twist in almost every time I go to Jacksonville and I. You know, I'm sure the neighbors know my little red Mini Cooper. You know, I bring her flowers and bring her gifts. I can. I just sit there on to. He is a very, it's a very grounding place is a very empowering place. And my only because you spoke of loneliness, you know, um. I only want her to know that we remember her. We think about her Dad. You know, her family still calls her name and longs for her, though it was really, really amazing to be able to bring you their job. But on there with my student groups are friends, or you know, people that I'm using tours of American beach or during the camp out or something. But go there with you. But something very special on. So what does Kingsley plantation needs me on? So now that I've been going there for I don't even know how many years Kingsley plantation is on a lot of nostalgia, because I remember I remember going there with my mean, you know, she always would likely to come working player to celebration. I went there one year and was one of the this centers on, and that's the year tag. She transitioned. She was to be a provender, and four. She was no longer there, but I've presented in her place on. That was actually the years I met on a manual blame. Among while Le Bron on, I have been had the honor to be a speaker at the same time and stopped Schaefer and the thing program for Kingsley player to celebration of friends. Mayor brought people there. You know, I was able to be at Kingsley, or is the um commemoration of sixteen the anniversary of the see nineteen four hundred years of of the African American presence in America on almost two years ago showed it to me. It is like a place of pilgrimage on is a place that I go. Because I think that it is important to to honor and to perpetuate your investors, high school, because I think there is such a uniquely American and African American story, but it's not the typical story that you know you normally read in history books or see in movies or in. I think it allows you to know, really on a very core level that there's so much more to the story of people of African descent in America or two enslavement, or to the impact that die that institution has not just on the African, but also on the European mainly look at. Therefore please like he's super impacted by the presence of Africans and not just not just the ones blue, you know labor. He benefited from all of his. These children were biracial or mixed race. He you know, altered the force of his life over here his sons could inherit. His property is is there's so many things that a symbolic or a microcosm of where you can begin gain access to a new understanding difference, perhaps than the story that you may have been told. You know, this is not on gone with the wind pipe tail on the offensive, so it's very, um, a very important. You know, sometimes when I when I bring people to American beach, and then we know we're looking for other things to do. And I say, can we go to Kingsley. Some people like I don't know. I don't wanna go. So plantation? But when I went my wife, forty me on and to me is also I when I go to Kingsley, I'm very seldom focused on to be honest on Japanese and focus on the people who lived in those folders. And what were their lives like in when I got married? And I want them to know that I'm grateful for them, and I'm thankful for them and that their their labor in their efforts were in vain and that you know their children and their children's children. Keep coming back to tell them. Thank you in the loo. A think service history is good. An African American history is not an American history. He alone is also an African history. Yeah for sure. Absolutely as she went there, and she did what she has to do with great honor. Now it came from somewhere the that she had to have had a young age to accomplish for which he has accomplished, learned that from somewhere. Yes and it's not by. Go do this is by seeing it being done. U C N N in. This is something that I think is worth commending this. I think that you know is in a time where are is tightening that. There's very few, you know. First hand accounts are are documents on her genome. Kingsley has their interviews. There's letters. There's um you will. There's. He wrote a treatise of the thing. There's all very few accounts of people actually encountered her. But if you read them, everybody remarked upon you know, hurt, hurt. Her countenance her presence, her arm reality, her strength, her courage, which. Mikey said he didn't get that from from nowhere, huh. She you know she was display. She was not a place that she was was raised to be, but she was still the person that she was raised to be exactly. She doesn't. So my next question is, do you see any traditional law African influence in the way that honor manage the plantation? Well the way she met at the blurred vision is with courage based on what I learn and good management skills. Because you did you given. Need people any kind of way what. There is a kind of skill set that you have to have to make. People do what you expect them to do. And actually has the definition of management giving job done through people. Now it takes character is discourage all that is ah thing that she has seen in where she came from and she has held and used apply. You know, it's where you belong to a certain group clear. I take my own example. My mother used to tell me as a child dominate. Go back. Nearly deaf dumb is a sibling of a sudden, nickelback is a good person meaning nobility to do this. You do this to avoid issues of it as a child growing up to a point that sometimes you say dumb ass, it don't say anything. I know it all because I've heard this so many times Dominic Cooper negative demolished by such and such to just instill in you some character and some some some those kind of upbringing, things that are known from people of nobility. Now you grew up in that environment. You hold those values, and that's the only way you know how Angela, how to do things and get things done. So that's what I understand her courage and has she has held. The household is beautiful. What about you to me am? So I first traveled to Africa when I was twelve, which is the same age at which Anna left. Oh. When I first came from, I went to Nigeria, and then you know, I. I went to stand up on. So when I look at the story of Anna and defamation least I think of. The things that I observed a vow because the way that West African winning run their households run the market, you know, always how multiple enterprises on you know, you might meet a woman and say, oh, she's a professor at the University, always yoga. Father saw in the market, and she owns land, and she she now sits on the board of a bank, and she has an angio. You know, an African woman is rarely ever like the thing that her job title it, and she has six children when you think about all of the things with life. Unbelievable. I remember when I was in Senegal, and I went be travelling with people and someone when enlightening or or on dinner or a meal. And sometimes the people, Xena, we would just be traveling and we drop through someone's home. No real warning or notice or whatever and Menino you tapings. Those lies underneath the children. And then an hour and a half later, there's this huge fees, you know, if the platter with purple been vegetables and fish and lamb, and also seem em one, why more. Maybe so wife, who made all like fish fed like fifteen. He bought a drop of a dime like that is. That's a stupid he knows. But when I think about the things that I observed about West African women and think about the way that like you said she had to manage there is yeah, of course, mixed feelings and conflict being a person. Cool have been in Maine. Who then author own way that you know, that's often not necessarily? The typical story that you learn from history, books or years old, ever actually met him. Please do a little bit away about it. When I look at the bigger picture when I look at you and back, you know, Elia had three while sandwiched in women who in children who you know he gave position though of some authority or management will he must have trusted dislike? They were coming from a polygamous society. Where? That was a very functional way of operating so. Beijing done. It seems to me that they indoctrinated him into their culture. You know, and they say they raise their family. They raise their children. They you know, assisted him to be prosperous in his business for the benefit of their their children for their family foot inside of a construct that this from their culture, not his. So how? How is Anna on some understood within your family? You said earlier than you're fortunate to find out about your ancestors. I know for me, is rare for an African American to know the name of their ancestor who made our voyage. But I wonder for an African. Are there many people who really know the story of what happened to their ancestors wore immortal? Yes yes. Low good the fuck does. People are trying to write and projects about film like me. Get the word out. You communicate with so many different people about this. I mean wonderful woman. Fired and disgraced things. Harry things editor before arriving on on on newspapers about her more and more now it is, which is a great thing. Great think. I was yesterday at the museum of love glass civilizations, and I'm working with the chamber of the board on the projects. The film faggot. They allowed Anna Anna the correlation between the Senegalese in the delegation people. So yes. People are getting more and more interested and informed about her honor in her letters. Yes. And we try to. Yes. I think it's about time for us to have blacks black history. Month is Sylvia professor. Yeah. My shoe, at least somebody who has written a book about this summer, African American people have the people of the black diaspora who have done so many great things that had never been acknowledged in the history, books and authors, somebody. I was with somebody yesterday at the museum. Who was telling me about his book? There are other issues. I think that soon is gonna be really something. An Arab name is some way on was played in every Fisk, so she. She was named after a street in this escalates was the point of application, the wrestlers getting more and more popular now. Yes that's wonderful. And to him. Yeah. Saw my car when I say anything guy you want to stay in quarantine that you like to share with the NEA with our audience. Well. First of all, I'm very happy for this opportunity to express how I feel about earlier in my trip to Jacksonville. That deafness, one thing. And the other thing is that it gives me more and more courage to really wanna do something for this project is, how do you say taking her out of the unknown is, I think my main, my subjective is my duty through these projects that have to do God Anna, the galaxy, people selling an exception exit and then hopefully getting a book out for the kids to learn between Senegal and. All the delegates area South Carolina. Okay later. Jacksonville with Florida and Georgia, etc, etc. Through the thin man what has changed his African culture, which has remained what has been lost. Those kind of things that does not really what. I hope I'll be able to accomplish this test. If approved. Rafi at Rosie. An Akashi vs on his desk Matthew Elliott villagers newcomer Henry Francis, are. Thank you so much for joining us today for virtual can here celebration and sharing your stories. I learned so much. I am thank you to visitors for listening. For more information, please visit www.nps.gov/timu or and especially come visit us at Kingsley plantation where open Wednesday through Sunday from nine am to five pm.
Description
Ndiaye family descendants Peri Frances Betsch and Bouna Sémou Ndiaye explore topics of heritage, legacy and family in this interview for the 2021 Virtual Kingsley Heritage Celebration.
Credit
NPS
Date Created
02/18/2021
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