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Oral history Project - Phipps E.H. 1980
Transcript
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These interviews are presented here in their original form, unmodified, in an effort to preserve and share the history of our park and its surrounding area. The memories, comments, and viewpoints shared by interviewees in the materials of the New River Gorge Oral History Project and related documents do not represent the viewpoints of the National Park Service.
INTERVIEW NRGNPP 01 3
File NRGNPP 013-T
TAPE THIRTEEN
Mr. E. H. Phipps
Mrs. Mildred P.
Interviewer :
Henry Paul J. Nyden
October 16, 1980
[Mrs. Henry is Mr. Phipp's daughter; Mr. Phipps lives with Mrs. Henry and her husband Estill. She was present during most of the interview, and made comments at various times.]
PN: First, Mr. Phipps, maybe you could mention when you were born and where you were born.
EH: Well, I was born on July the 10th, 1886 out off of Harper Road on a farm, log house.
PN: What town was that? Was that in Harper Heights?
EP: No, no, it was on this side of Harper Heights. Do you know where Mt. Tabor Church is?
PN: Yea.
EP: Well, it was right to the right of the road that turns down to Mt. Tabor Church, to the right, went back out there half a mile or more. [The area he is talking about is just outside of Beckley.]
PN: You were born in a log house, what did your father do for a living?
EP: Farmer, he was a farmer. They were nine of us children eight boys and one girl. And the girl, and her twin brother, was the two last children born to the family. They're all gone but me now. Every one of them.
PN: Did you ever work on the farm yourself?
EP: Oh yea, I worked there until I was 18 years old. Back those days, all you could do was make a living, couldn't make any money, just made a living. So I had a chance to go to the C & O civil engineers, when the C & O Railroad was double—tracking their road from Charleston Vest to Barboursville. I went to St. Albans and stayed down there, lived there in St. Albans. That was in 1905; 1907 when they got pretty tight and the C & O Railroad couldn't borrow any money to complete their jobs so they closed it down. That cut me out of work. I had a brother who was opening up Slab Fork Coal Company over at Slab Fork for Mr. Caperton. So he wrote and told me to come over there, and he 'd give me something to do. So I went over there and drove a team of mules, and hauled supplies that was going to build those houses. Finally they built a temporary store; and then they put me in the store as store clerk.
PN: What year was that you went to Slab Fork?
EP: July the 22nd, 1907. July the 22nd, 1907. I stayed there for about two years, and I got a job over in Fayette County, just below Winona. Went over there and worked for two years, and finally got a job with Babcock Coal and Coke Company at Cliff top. And I was there ten years in the office as payroll clerk and postmaster.
PN: At Cliff top?
EP: Yea, mm. Do you know where Cliff top is?
PN: Yea. What were the years that you worked at Clifftop?
EP: From 1912 till 1922. Yea, 1912 till 1922.
PN: What did you do after you finished there?
EP: Well, I went in the clothing business. And my partner, he lived here in Beckley; he had a clothing store. He wanted to open a second store; and my younger brother one younger then me was working for him at the time. Well, he wanted to open up a second store, and let me operate the second store, and he would work between the two stores, and it wouldn't be as hard on him, you see. But he died, that was in 1922, and he died — wait a minute — he died Christmas Day. I believe, that year. Went to Mayo Brothers in Cleveland, and died. So then his widow didn't care to continue in the business, so they closed out the store at Norton, Virginia, and then they sold their store up here in Beckley.
PN: Is this 1930 when you went to Terry?
EP: Yea.
PN: Then you went to Terry?
EP: Yea, yea. [He must have misunderstood this question, since he held other jobs before he went to Terry, as is made clear later in the interview.]
PN: Who did you work for when you went to Terry?
EP: Captain John W. Smith — he was a coal operator. So he knew me, and he wanted me to work for him down at Terry. So I went to Terry, and he operated for about two years there, and finally gave it up. So other people took it over. And I was down there for 19 years, worked there.
PN: In Terry?
EP: At Terry.
PN: You were the bookkeeper or the…
EP: I was postmaster and payroll man. Wasn't all for the same company. They changed hands a time or two down there — different coal companies — but they wanted me to stay on, so I stayed on. So finally, Terry blew out in 1949. They ceased operations, so that cut me out of a job. 1 came back to Beckley, and worked for some merchants here in Beckley.
PN: When you were working as the postmaster and bookkeeper in Terry, did you go back and forth every day between Beckley and Terry?
EP: Oh yea, yea. I lived here in Beckley. I wanted to keep my daughter in a good school. And the houses down there were just company houses; it wasn't very good. So I drove backwards and forwards every day.
PN: How was the travelling then? Did you ride in a car?
EP: Oh yea, I had my own car, yea. Now, Batoff Mountain is three miles long, you know that? But I never had any trouble, even in the wintertime.
PN: Really?
EP: That's right.
PN: That's kind of a rough mountain when it gets icy, though, isn't it?
EP: There was one big snow, I don't remember how deep it was. I started home one evening, and brought one of the men that worked there with me. And I had two big coal shovels; if we got stuck in the snow, we could shovel out. But then I was afraid I would get in behind somebody that had stalled couldn't get through — and I 'd have a time maybe getting out or turning around, so I just backed down to a good place to turn. And I turned, went back, and spent the night in Terry.
PN: Let me ask you a few questions about Terry, about 1930 when you first came there. I was wondering if I could just ask you a few questions about how it looked.
EP: Sure.
PN: How many houses were there there, would you say?
EP: Well now, my memory's not very good. I don 't recall just how many. I suppose 25 or 30, something like that. That's just a guess. It's been so long, I've forgotten just how many were there.
PN: Did the people that worked at Terry, would live there, right?
EP: Oh yea.
PN: Did people come from any other towns nearby to work at Terry?
EP: They'd work at Terry, yes, they did. People 'd come from all around.
PN: From where, like Royal or McCreery?
EP: Royal, yes, or anywhere on up the river there.
PN: What did the houses look like?
EP: Well, they were just plain, ordinary frame houses. Some of them were painted, some of them wasn't. Then they had a substation built right in front of the store. It was a great big store three stories high. And this substation furnished power for the mines; they run a line up the hill to the mines. And also furnished power for the houses there in Terry — this substation that they had there.
PN: And the C & O tracks went right through the town, right?
EP: Well yes. It didn't go any further down than Terry. There was nothing on down lower.
PN: On that side of the river there were no tracks?
EP: No, just down to Terry. Well, it went out a little beyond the store, you know, so they'd have room for their cars and so on.
PN: You said there was also a post office, there were some company buildings there. Was there a company store?
EP: Oh yea, there was a company store, yea, about three stories.
PN: Was that where you worked?
EP: Yea, that's where I worked, yea. They had, oh, a great big basement, then the store building itself, and then they had, I believe there were seven apartments up over this store. This store was a great big building, great big building.
PN: And the post office was right there too?
EP: Yea.
PN: You were mentioning before about a bridge, there was a covered bridge?
EP: That was up at McCreery. That's where you left the road, and you had to walk into Terry because there was no wagon road. You walked down the railroad track from McCreery to Terry, which was about a mile and some thing.
PN: Is that what you had to do every day when you…
EP: Yea, every day and every night, I walked down that railroad track.
PN: If you were coming from Beckley down to McCreery, you could cross the river then on that bridge, on the covered bridge?
EP: Oh no, it wasn't there when I worked there. It was already disbanded, yea. The bridge, the covered bridge part was gone. That was years ago. When I was a kid, my daddy took me with him down one time, and so we crossed through this covered bridge. But that's been a long time ago.
PN: It was down by 1930 then?
EP: No, it was earlier than that. See, 1930 is when I went down there to work. I was a pretty good—sized boy then. [laughs]
PN: Thinking about the people that lived in Terry, would they buy all their food there from the company store?
EP: Well, there was an independent store there at McCreery. And some of them would buy their groceries up there. They thought they could get em cheaper than they could in the company store, you know. And some few of them would buy some groceries up there, which was all right. It didn't hurt us any.
PN: Did the coal company at Terry issue scrip?
EP: Yea, paper scrip.
PN: Paper scrip, not the metal?
EP: No, this was the punch—out scrip. You used a punch to punch out the figures.
PN: Could people cash that in at a discount, or something, if they wanted to go up…
EP: Oh yea. That's what they did. A lot of them would take their scrip, and go up to this other store, and cash it in, and take the money, and maybe would buy 'em moonshine.
PN: Was it hard to get moonshine or liquor if you wanted it?
EP: No, no. Of course, they didn't make any right around, but they knew where it was made, And they'd send a boy up to get some. I know this one, one young fellow down there that they sent after whiskey every time, those people that drank it.
PN: Prohibition ended, did they have any bars or saloons in Terry?
EP: No, the closest saloon was Prince. This fellow by the name of Prince, Bob Prince. My daddy used to tell me that Bob Prince lived in Beckley, you know, and his people. He said he took an old sled, hooked an old oxen to it — one oxen and took his trunk; everything that he thought he 'd need, you know, why he took his clothes and wearing apparel and so on, and took this old oxen, hauled it down to McCreery, and on up as close to Prince as you could get, you know. There wasn't any bridge across the river then. So he took it up that far, then he had to transfer it to — oh, what do
you call them, that you cross the river on?
MH: Ferry boats.
EP: Boat, yea.
PN: That bridge wasn't in at Prince then?
EP: Oh no , no, no. That bridge across the river wasn't in for years. And this fellow Prince went down there, and opened up a big store, built a big store. And then right on the outside of the store, at the far end of it, he had this saloon. And that was when they were building this C & O through to Richmond, you know. And Lord, he made a fortune selling whiskey there, you know. He'd get him a barrel of whiskey, and then he'd dilute it with that New River water. [laughs] That's right, he would. He made a fortune there, selling whiskey and New River water. Hell, that old saloon was right out, right by the side of his store, right at the back part of his store. I can remember that, yes.
PN: Was the New River pretty clear then? It's still pretty good water.
EP: Oh yes, at that time it was good water. See it wasn't diluted [meaning polluted]; there wasn't any mines much along up there to pollute it in any way.
PN: Was the water clearer then than it is now?
EP: Well, I don't know that you could tell that much difference in it, but it seemed to be better.
PN: Did people fish there a lot?
EP: They didn't at that time, when I first went there. They did too, now the young boys did; boys down there used to set their trot—line across the river. And why, they kept me in fish all the time. Those boys would Catch fish, and they'd bring 'em up and give 'em to me, and I'd give them to the butcher, and he'd dress 'em and put 'em in the freezer for me. And when I started home that evening, why I took the fish with me.
PN: Did you ever sell any fish there at the store? Or would people just catch It if they wanted it?
EP: Oh, they'd just catch it if they wanted it. No, they never tried to sell it there at the store.
PN: What did most people in Terry do for entertainment, or for fun, around 1930 when you first moved there?
EP: Well, the only thing I can remember, they had a pool room there.
PN: In Terry?
EP: Yea, played pool.
PN: Was that in the same place as the company store?
EP: No, it was in a separate building, right off of the company store.
PN: Was that privately run?
EP: Yea, that was run privately.
PN: Did they serve any beer, or any kind of alcohol there?
EP: No, no, no. And then they had a big club house there where single men stayed and boarded, you know, when they were working in the mine. They had a big club house there.
PN: How many people worked at the mine in 1930?
EP: I just can't tell you exactly — it's been so far and my memory's not that good — but I’d say 125—50 maybe. Just guessing at it.
PN: Do you have any guess as to the total number of people that lived there in Terry itself?
EP: Well, no I don't; I just can't remember how many children different families had, you know. I don’t remember.
PN: So you said there were about 25 or 30 houses, and then these apartments, and the boarding house?
EP: A boarding house, yes. Well they had some rooms, but mostly just to feed people and for them to spend the night.
PN: Were there any churches in Terry then?
EP: Yes, they had a small church there.
PN: What kind was that? Baptist or Methodist?
EP: Well I don't really remember, but I think any denomination almost could have services there. Yea.
PN: Back then, were there any Black people living there, as well as white?
EP: Oh yea, yea, yea.
PN: What was the percentage? Would you have any guess on that?
EP: I don't know really, but I'd say there were, I 'd say there were seven or eight houses for colored people. They lived kind of up on a little bench, above the store and the railroad tracks. They had a road up by their place. They didn't live right down in the town with the other people.
PN: Did they work in the mine too?
EP: Oh yea, yea.
PN: What did they do mostly when they worked in the mine?
EP:They'd load coal, load coal.
PN: Were there any immigrants from Europe, like from Poland or Hungary or Italy?
EP: I don't recall any. Now there was one little fellow that worked there; I forget his name. He was a foreigner of some kind, but I don't remember his name now. He lived there; of course he shantied there by himself. He didn't stay with any of the other folk.
PN: What did he do?
EP: He loaded coal.
PN: He loaded coal too?
EP: Yea, he loaded coal.
PN: How many rooms did most of the houses have that people lived in there?
EP: Around four I 'd say, four rooms; four rooms would be the average.
PN: What types of furniture did people usually have?
EP: I don't know — just a bed and chairs, some old bed springs and so on like that. Dresser maybe, but they didn't have any elaborate furniture.
PN: Where did they buy what furniture they had, through the store, the company store?
EP: Yea, sometimes they would. And then of course, they could come to Beckley and buy what they wanted, and have it shipped down. But there was no, no road in there except the railroad. And we had to use a push—car from the store to McCreery to get our mail, and freight, and express, or whatever you have .
PN: You mean the train didn't stop there at Terry?
EP: No, no, nothing but the coal train. It'd just come in there and pick up the coal. Sometimes they might have a carload of feed or something for the company, and they'd shove it on down and just leave it there. And they'd unload it, and then they'd pick it up, take it on out again.
PN: Was the church in Terry a major place that people gathered to meet each other and talk to each other?
EP: Well, not only on Sundays. On Sundays they could, or would . But they could have services down there if they wanted them, you know.
MH: May I interrupt?
PN: Sure, sure.
MH: They also had a grade school there. And whenever they needed to have little town meetings or things of interest, they could meet at the grade school or the church. And as far as the furniture and all, he r s talking about when he first went there. I guess that's what you want. But then as time went on, the people, you know, could buy better things and did have nice things. I can remember that. I worked there for several years in the office.
PN: Oh really?
MH: I worked in the office there at Terry, I forget how many years, about six years. It was a one—person office, and back then you know, there was 50 people waiting for your job, so you did what you were supposed to. He needed help so desperately; and one person in an office, he never got a vacation or anything, there were no jobs to to death when I could you know. Now 1 got out of business college, and be had, so I couldn't see my father working himself have helped him. I went there and worked I don't know how long without a cent of pay. 1 got mighty tired of that word “experience”. But you didn't sit and wait; you got out and did it. so I went, so 1, then finally I guess they got tired of seeing my show up and working all day long like a dog, and not paying me; so then they hired me. So I was down there too. That's why he kept doing it. But they had a real nice club house; you know what a club house is?
PN: Yea.
MH: Where they served meals, and the men boarded and roomed there that, single men, or men who lived someplace else and couldn't go back and forth each day. Usually I think the food was good, and plenty of it. I know I have at times eaten my lunch at the club house.
PN: And the company ran that? The club house?
MH: They would hire someone to. Isn't that right.
EP: No, independent people run the club house.
MH: But they were hired, were they hired by the company?
EP: Well, I guess they give them, give, give them permission, yea.
MH: Now there's one big building he was telling you about — the store, the post office, and the company offices were in there on the main floor. Then there was a huge basement, and up above there were rooms. And sometimes they were used, you know, maybe officials, they did turn it into, later years, 1 think they turned it in, one of the superintendents lived upstairs, in the upstairs floor. But you could only go as far as McCreery. Now the covered bridge part, that was back prior to 1930.
EP: Yea, that was before.
MH: By the time he went to work at Terry, there was just an ordinary bridge across Piney Creek there at McCreery. And then on up at Prince, I don't remember the year that that bridge was built across New River from, what would it be, Royal over to…
EP: Royal over to Prince.
MH: What year would that be?
EP: I don 't remember, Mildred. Used to be a ferry there for a long time.
MH: Not that I remember.
EP: No, I…
MH: It would have been way back. I don't remember the covered bridge. I don't remember the ferry or any of that. So that had to have been back before me, before I was old enough.
PN: Did people have gardens in Terry?
EP: Oh Lord, yes.
MH: Beautiful.
EP: That soil down there is much richer than it is up here in Beckley.
MH: The season was earlier.
EP: Yea, about two weeks earlier than we are here.
PN: It was warmer being down on the river?
EP: Yea, yea.
MH: The season was earlier. And the soil there at the bottom of the hill - wonderful soil. They had the most beautiful vegetable gardens and flowers.
PN: What did they grow usually?
MH: A variety of things.
EP: Everything. There was one fellow down there, old fellow by the name of Harris. And Lord, he had some of the prettiest potatoes and tomatoes and things of that kind. And one fellow lived up at McCreery fellow by the name of Thomas, Charlie Thomas and I was coming out one evening, coming home, and he brought a bushel basket of the nicest tomatoes you ever saw in your life, and give me to bring home for my wife to put up — can. Those gardens were just so fine; they'd give me all kinds of vegetables and stuff down there. They had some nice gardens.
MH: You asked about the fish. Back then — I don't know anything about the fish in the New River now — but now I remember this. The men down there when they couldn't go fishing, and now they didn't bring mudcats, you know, they 're not particularly good eating, or I don't think. But it would be blue cats, and I think that's one of your most, to me that's your best cat.
PN: The blue cats?
MH: And they would bring those out of there, and they were nice sized. * Seemed to me that those fellows that went fishing never had any problems getting a gob of fish. And they'd get more than they wanted, or could use, you know, and they would give them to us to bring home. And they were absolutely delicious.
* [Indicating about 20—24 inches with his hands.]
EP: They kept me in fish down there.
MH: Those boys were born and raised down there. They were just, they were part of that river. You should have seen those boys get out on the river in a boat. And as wild as that water is, those young boys would get out there and — I'd stand at the office window sometime and watch them and about have a heart attack and they could really handle boats beautifully. Now you do know that that was a training place down in there for the Army too.
PN: In Terry?
MH: I mean they brought…Have you not heard that?
PN: No, I didn't know that.
MH: I don't remember the year, but you could find this out. Across the river from Terry and up, between Terry and…
EP: McCreery.
MH: And well I’d say McCreery or Royal. Across the river there, they brought soldiers in there for their training on the river because they, and they brought them from all over, because this river is treacherous, swift, and they could find most any condition they wanted in that river. And they Army troops over there for a long time.
PN: Was this in the 1930s?
MH: Now I don't remember the year; I don't know what year it was. You could find out. I don't know if it was around; it would be later than the thirties, I know. Maybe around World War II time. And they trained them to use rafts, and in fording heavy equipment, and this sort of thing. And they got their, a lot, a lot of the troops got their training there too, because the river offers about anything you want to find from smooth spots to treacherous and swift. And it is a very swift river. But now I don't remember the year, but you could easily find that out from most anyone. But I would think if they [the National Park Service] were going to put the New River Gorge history in there [in park exhibits], they might want to add that that troops were trained.
PN: Where did you say, again, you worked between 1912 and 1922?
EP:1912 and 1922?
MH: Clifftop.
EP: Clifftop, yea.
PN: What was your job then?
EP: Well, my job there was postmaster and payroll clerk.
PN: How did you get that job originally? Did you just apply for it, or…
EP: NO, no, I had a brother—in—law who was store manager over at Landisburg. You know where Landisburg is?
PN: Yea, yea.
EP: Well, at Clifftop, they had a lady payroll clerk working there. She decided to get married. Now she was not an old maid, but she was right close to it. So she decided to get married. So this boy at Landisburg wrote me and told me there would be an opening at Cliff top, and if I 'd come over there on a Sunday, why he and the superintendent would be over at the, show me around, and see if I wanted the job. So I went over there on a Sunday, and he showed me all around, showed me through the store, and so on. So, much better office to work in than I had, so I told him, "Yes, I'll take the job." So that's how I got to Clifftop.
PN: And your experience there helped you get the job in Terry eight years later when you applied for the job in Terry?
EP: Well, I judge it did, yes; it's bound to. Takes experience for most anything if you make a success out of it.
PN: When you were bookkeeper at Terry, did this mean you kept all the company's payroll records, and financial records, and tended to all that stuff?
EP: Well, they had a main office. They had two operations; one at Winona. And I 'd send all my reports over there at the end of the half, or end of the month. But they kept general books over there, see.
PN: The same company owned Winona and Terry?
EP: Oh yea, same company, yea. They operated the mines at Winona and also at Terry too, yea.
EP: I was telling you about [before a brief interruption], that was before she went to work there I guess. I started home one evening, and got, oh up past a quarter of a mile from McCreery up Batoff Mountain coming home. Big rock cliff on the right—hand side of the road had fell in and clear across the road. God, it was that high [indicating about four or five feet with his hand off the floor]. When it give way, why it just covered the road clear across. And I had to turn around, and I went back down, went up to Prince, turned and went down by the old McKendree Hospital, Stone Cliff, on into Thurmond, and then from Thurmond up through Glen Jean and on in home — to get home that day. Boy!
PN: Back then, when they had the churches, was there a segregated church? There was one for the Black people and one for the white, or?
EP: Yea. Black had their own meeting house.
PN: So there was a church for the whites and a little meeting house for the Blacks?
EP: Colored, yea.
PN: How about the schools? Did they have separate schools too?
EP: Wait a minute. Now honestly I were separate schools. I knew they had two school teachers there at Terry. But I'll swear I don't know whether they were seperated or not. I just can't remember. Darn it. When you get 94 years old, your memory don't go back very far.
PN: You said that when you worked, though, you worked six days a week?
EP: Oh Lord, yes. And then sometime worked Sundays; that is, on payroll at the end of the half, I'd be working maybe on Sunday closing the payroll out and writing the statements, you know, to pay off. And then lots of times, I'd take my work with me home and work on it.
PN: Did they pay you extra when you worked the extra hours?
EP: Nooo. So much a month and that was it.
PN: [Addressing Mrs. Henry] You worked for many years? You worked for six years or something, you said?
MH: Almost.
PN: And you didn't get paid at all? You were just helping your father?
MH: Oh, after about three or four months, they put me on the payroll.
PN: Oh, after three or four months, they put you on the payroll too?
MH: I worked for nothing for a while, for those first three or four months, and then they, I guess they got ashamed of me showing up. How to get a job through perseverance.
PN: You said you worked at Mead [near Rhodell in Raleigh County] also? What were the years you worked at Mead as a bookkeeper?
EP: '25 till '29. That was Vanwood then. Used to be called Vanwood, but they changed the name to Mead. That's over on the Stonecoal [a creek], from Lillybrook, Besoco, and all down that creek there.
PN: You must have enjoyed being a bookkeeper, though, did you?
EP: Oh, I loved it, yea, yea.
PN: Because you worked at different places. Why did, maybe it's a hard question to answer, but why did you enjoy that type of work?
EP: Well, I just picked it up and got used to it, and I liked it, and it's better than hard manual labor. [laughs]
MH: And he's still good at figures.
EP: I, now when I was a kid going to old country school know, where one teacher taught all grades I, arithmetic and writing were three subjects I liked. I don't know why.
PN: Where did you go, right up at Harper?
MH: No, Mt. Tabor.
EP: Mt. Tabor.
PN: Mt. Tabor, that's right.
EP: Yea, Mt. Tabor, yea.
PN: Mt. Tabor School, it was called, right?
EP: Yea, Mt. Tabor School is just on this side of Mt. Tabor Church, and on the right—hand side as you go towards Mt. Tabor Church. Frame building.
MH: Now the original church isn't there; there's a brick church there now. But the church he's speaking of was straight across the road, and it was a small frame church.
EP: It wasn't very small, Mildred, it was a good, big church. Good, big church. That church on the left—hand side there was a good—sized church.
PN: Is there anything you think that should be added that we haven't touched on or talked about?
EP: I can't think of anything, I don't believe. just don't come to mind right now.
PN: Did they have electric lights and gas in Terry then?
EP: No, no, they never did have gas.
PN: Never did have gas. Did they have electricity in 1930 when you were there?
MH: Yea didn't they have lights in the office there?
EP: Yea, oh yea, yea. Well, we had lights because we had this generator.
MH: The big generator he told you about; yes, they had lights in their houses.
EP: Sitting out in front, yea. Yea, we had lights then.
MH: In the store and the office, they had electric lights then. All the houses and the store and everything were heated with coal.
PN: You said before that every day, when you went to work, that you had to walk a mile and a half in on the tracks?
EP: That was from McCreery down to Terry.
PN: And if anybody who lived in Terry wanted to take a train or anything, they would have to walk a mile and a half out to get the train?
MH: To McCreery.
PN: Because just coal trains stopped at Terry?
EP: Yea.
MH: And the people that lived there really, you know, if they wanted to come to Beckley, and they had cars, or could bum a ride, you know, they had to walk a mile and a half up to McCreery to get in their cars drive to Beckley. Of course, we’d bring a lot of them up; you know, our car was nearly always, they'd come up with us, and then they'd get a cab, get a taxi, you know. Several of them would ride the taxi and share the expenses; it would take them back to McCreery. Then they'd, no matter how late, they'd still have to walk that mile and a half back down into Terry. That was the only way to get in and out. You had to take your constitutional whether you wanted to or not.
PN: Was it ever so cold there, or so snowy, or so much snow that the trains were stopped?
MH: Never stopped the trains.
EP: I don't remember of it.
MH: I don't remember that. I remember a slide that they had at Terry.
EP: I told him about that.
MH: No, the one I’m talking about, the one that pushed the coal cars into the river.
EP: Oh that was down at the tipple. Down at the tipple, this little old valley right beside of the monitor track that went up to the mines from the tipple, They had a rain there, I think it was early May; it rained, and rained, and rained - got the ground all saturated, you know, with water. So it came loose up at the top; and as it come down, it spread, you know. It brought trees, logs, and everything else with it there was so much weight behind it. So it got down there and shoved a railroad car off in the river. Oh, there was a pile of mud across there, across the railroad track. We got some boards laid across the top of it, and we tried to cross it and go on down to Terry to work.
MH: Now that was one time we didn't make it.
EP: I know there was one time.
MH: At first the slide was moving too fast, because it was bringing trees and stuff down. That was one time we didn't make it to work. That was one of the times. There was another time there was such a deep snow that I told him, I said, "You know, I don't see how we could make it." So my mother called the state police, and they told him to stay home. They had enough problems. She asked them, you know, what the roads were like. And they said stay home; they had enough problems without any more nuts out on the road.
PN: One more little question about scrip. If somebody wanted to change the scrip into…
EP: Cash?
PN: Yea, cash. What would be the discount on that?
EP: About 25%.
PN: 25%. Yea, did many people do that?
EP: A lot of the, a lot of them, yea. They'd take their scrip and go up to this store at McCreery, and they could change there.
PN: That was a commercial store though there, right? That was a private store; it wasn't owned by the same company.
EP: Oh no, no , no, no.
MH: Individually owned.
EP: And they could go up there and use the discount at 25%. And then they'd take that scrip at payday, and come down and collect their money. That is the store manager would.
PN: Did he get the money from the coal company?
EP: Oh yea, yea.
PN: So did the coal company give him less than was on the scrip?
EP: No.
PN: He could redeem it at its full value?
EP: Full value, yea. See the man that owned the scrip in the first place, he was the only one discounting it, you see. No, the company had to redeem it at face value.
PN: What was the name of that company? I don't know if you mentioned that. You said there were several.
MH: Duneden Coal Company was one of them.
PN: Duneden?
EP: Duneden, that was original.
MH: Maryland Fire Creek.
EP: Then Maryland Fire Creek Coal Company took it over; they were at Winona.
MH: They were the ones that were at Winona. Duneden was out of Staunton, Virginia. Duneden Coal Company's main offices were in Staunton, Virginia.
[End of Tape]
Description
Bookkeeper and postmaster, Clifftop, Mead, Terry, 1912 - 1949
Date Created
10/16/1980
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