Audio
Oral History Project - Garten, Harold 1980 Part 2
Transcript
Interview # NRGNPP 005
File NRGNPP 005-T
TAPE FIVE
Mr. Herbert Garten Interviewer:
Paul J. Nyden
Piney View, W. Va. 25906
September 6, 1980
HG: I was just going to say I don't remember where we left off.
PN: I think we were talking about the houses, and how many people; and you said there were about 300 people, maybe more, in Terry. Let me just ask you a little bit about the houses. You said they had the old Jenny Lind houses, and then new houses?
HG: Yea, the most of them were Jenny Lind, and then you had some few that were built later, you know, that they did a little better job on. But that used to be the standard, you know, years ago; when they 'd open up a mine, they'd come in there and usually they'd put a saw mill and cut the timber and saw the lumber and build houses kinf of like a lumber company, that's the way they'd do. They'd go into an area to cut timber, you know, and they'd throw up what they call sawmill shanties. Well, these coal company houses were, they were constructed a little better than these sawmill shanties, because they were naturally expecting to be there longer. But the first houses that were built, they were more Jenny Lind construction.
PN: How many rooms, were the same number of rooms in both the Jenny Lind houses and the new houses?
HG: Well, most of them.
PN: How many rooms did they have?
HG: They'd usually have four; most of them was four—room houses. Now they'd have, for bosses and mine foremen, superintendent, maybe the store manager, people like that, you know, they'd have a little better house — maybe another room or two; some of them even had a bath in them.
PN: What were the rooms used, if you had four rooms, what would you use each of the rooms for?
HG: Well, usually you'd have your kitchen; and in most cases, you, that was your dining area too. Most families, why, they'd use the other rooms for living room and bedrooms. And, of course, in most cases, there'd be a bed in the living room, you know in a house that size, and big families, why, and the bedrooms, I know we used to, we 'd have two beds in the bed— room. And in our living room, we, you had these old, what they called a davenport that opened up into a bed, made a whole lot on the order of these hide—a—beds, you know. They called them then a davenport. And you could open that thing up and make a bed, you know, if necessary. And in our case, it was usually necessary, about every night.
[ laughs ]
PN: What other types of furniture did you have in the living room?
HG: Well that davenport, of course, it, in the daytime it was a couch, you know; and it made out into a bed of a night. And then you had whatever chairs you needed. And we used to have one of these old wind—up phonographs; and some of the others had some, you know, had an old phonograph. And that was usually It.
PN: Did you have a radio?
HG: Oh no, no, no. There was very few radios, and I knew some people
that had radios; usually the superintendent, maybe he'd have one. But you couldn't hear anything hardly on it, more static than anything else. You could tell that somebody was talking, you know, but you couldn't make out what he was saying. But it was quite a curiosity. And then a few years later, the superintendent had his radio, well they fixed up a, down here at Terry, they fixed up a building there that had been used for a feed storage, and cleaned that thing out, and put tables and chairs in there, and used it just as a sort of a gathering place, you know. We'd meet together there, and we 'd play checkers, and listen to the radio —— he had his radio in there. And some listened to the radio, some played checkers, some played set—back —— and just have a sort of a getting together.
PN: What was set—back?
HG: That was played with cards. And, just sort of games, you know. And we had first—aid classes in it. And a couple of nights a week, we 'd have arithmetic classes. We had a fellow came down there, principal of the school, a fellow by the name of Cardin; and he was co—editor, or whatever you call it; he helped to compile a history of West Virginia, he and another fellow. H. G. Cardin, maybe you 've seen some of his work. But at any rate, he wasn't a fellow that whenever he finished with the kids at school, he didn't care about just setting down, not doing anything.
He decided to teach the men a little bit. Some of them couldn't read their statements, you know; before that winter was over, he had them working fractions. And some of them, the ones that was more advanced, he f d have them abstracting square roots, you know, and like that. He was really an educator; that was his work, and he worked at it. I know some fellows there that couldn't sign their statement. But before that fellow left there, they wrote a pretty good hand . So we had a pretty good thing going there for a while.
PN: Where did people get most of their furniture? From the company store?
HG: From the company store, yea. And that wasn't bad. They handled a good brand of furniture, you know. And you could buy it, and pay so much a half [a month] on it, you know. And they didn't have what, a finance charge, you know. You bought the furniture, and they'd take out so much a half until the price of it was paid; there was no finance charge. And some of them, when they could buy like that, they kept theirselves tied up that way to where they didn't draw any money. They just lived out of the company store. They called it being "scrip—bound, just from one half to the next.
PN: What did most people in Terry at that time do for recreation?
HG: Well, most of them liked to fish. And on Sundays, we'd go down to the river and boat ride. And they had a place down there where you could fix a place to play croquet. And we played croquet. A lot of the men, they'd get down on the river bank on a flat rock and play poker. There wasn't much, now at Royal, had a movie theater, and we used to, on the weekend on, usually on Saturday night, they'd have a movie, you know. And you'd walk from Terry to Royal, about three miles one way. We 'd walk to the movie. We had a little excitement down there one time. There was a
fellow, kind of an old fellow, came in there; started staying with a family that lived down, there was a house down near the river. And there was a family by the name of Branstetters lived there in that house. And they worked there in the mines. And this fellow, he come there and started
boarding with Branstetters; the house was down to itself, you know, away from the camp. And this old fellow, he 'd go every day, every day, you 'd see him going with a basket on his arm. He'd go up the railroad track to McCreery and back. And he 'd have a piece of paper in that basket, some— thing underneath the paper, and then he 'd have a few items on top of the paper. And he'd always have some candy to give kids, you know, candy or chewing gum, something like that. And that went on for quite a while. Mrs. Branstetter, she was kind of curious about why he, he always when he was there he stayed to hisself in his room, you know. Then he decided he wanted to take the oldest boy with him to Charleston. He said he had to go to Charleston on business. So he took the boy to Charleston with him.
They let him go; they'd got to where they thought right smart of the old man; he was a pretty nice old fellow. So they let him take the boy with
him. And they was gone about a week, maybe longer, several days. They
come back home, and Mrs. Branstetter said, Philip told her. I forget now
the man's name; he had a name for him. He said all he did in Charleston
is spend his money. He said they would walk around on the street, and every time they passed a hot—dog stand or a place like that, he'd give him a half dollar, and he'd get a hot dog for a nickel and bring him back the change. And he'd give Philip a half dollar, and he'd go buy him a pack of chewing gum, or a hot dog, or something, and bring him back the change. And he said that's all they did. Well then counterfeit half of dollars started floating around. And first thing you know, here the
police come in, went down to Branstetters and picked the old fellow up.
Come to find out, he was wanted in 1 forget how many states; he was
wanted in several states, you know. And he'd been in prison several times and escaped. And the last time that he broke out, they'd shot
him in the arm. The bullet went in his elbow there, and that arm,
and come out his wrist; and that arm stayed in that shape, and it was just right to hold a basket on. And that's the way you'd hold a basket,
you know, on your arm. And everywhere he went, he carried that basket
on that arm. And nobody paid any attention to it being crippled; they
didn't know it was, you know. And come to find out, that old bugger,
that's the reason he stayed in his room, you know. He was in there and
he had him a little oil burner in there, and he was, and he'd go up
there on the railroad, and he 'd gather up lead, you know, anything that
he could find that he could melt. But he could find quite a bit of
lead, where the train crews had put down these torpedos, you know, on
the rail. And he’d gather that up, and old spoons, and things and
he could mix that together, you know, and melt that, and mix it together,
and mold them half dollars. And they picked him up, and they took him
down to the coal company office. And he told them, he said, ' 'If you
hadn't a got me today," he said, "tomorrow I was ready to start putting
out bills. Everything was ready. He'd done his engraving; and he really
did a good job too. And he showed him how he could do it. He knew he
wasn't going to get out any more. He was getting kind of old, and I guess
he figured he E d never engineer another escape, and too many states wanted
him. He was gone for the rest of his life, you know. And he showed them
how he worked it to get these little colored threads in there, you know.
He started rolling the corner of a one—dollar bill, and he started it splitting. And they let him peel it back about half—way, you know, to make two bills out, put another piece to it, you know. The paper that they use, and of course, he'd have that real bill, you know, with the threads in it, and it was a little harder to detect. And the man said, "Well, that would only be half—counterfeit at that, wouldn't it?"
PN: Let me ask you another question. What religion did most people have in Terry? Did they go to church there?
HG: Yea, they had a little church that had been a one—room school. And then they built a bigger school, and they used that old school building for a church.
PN: Was it a Baptist church, or what was it?
HG: Well, it was just first one, then another; it was more a community than anything else. That's what they called It, Terry Community Church. And they've got a new church down there now, and they still call it the Terry Community Church. But they had different denominations, people down there of several different faiths. They had some Baptists, and some Christian belief. My grandfather used to come down there and preach once a month. He was from up Elk Knob; he built that Elk Knob Baptist Church, and pastored it until he died. He lived on a farm right there, right there near the Elk Knob Church. But he would come down there, and he used to preach different places, ride his horse, you know, and go places to preach. And he used to come down there and preach. Different preachers would come in and preach. There was two or three that come pretty regular, once a month. There used to be Mr. Paul Smith from out, well, he was originally from Grandview, but he lived up here in Beckley; and he would come down and preach once a month. And once in a while, one of them would hold a series of meetings, you know.
PN: Were there a lot of people who were immigrants from Europe in
Terry?
HG: Yes, there were some. We had some Polish people, and some different, I guess, and I know, some from Russia. Terry was at that time, Terry was a pretty good place to work. But it got so, after it begin to get pretty well worked out, it got to where it wasn't too good, you know, kind of a hard place to make money. But at one time, it was a pretty good place to make money.
PN: Were there many Black miners there?
HG: Yes they had some.
PN: About how many, would you say?
HG: Well, I don't know. They had enough there till they had their own school and their own church.
PN: In Terry?
HG: Yea, you see it actually was a pretty camp at one time.
PN: Where did most of the Black miners come from?
HG: I don't know.
PN: Did the company have any transportation agents that went and got
people from Europe?
HG: Well, no. Now they, they used to, some of these bigger companies
you know, like over here at Raleigh, and at places like that, over at
Summer lee, I’ve heard of some of the bigger companies that would bring
in a trainload of miners, you know, to break a strike. Now that's what
happened over at Raleigh. They brought in, they called it a "transportation," because they was on strike. And that's when they mounted that machine gun up there, you know, to protect them. And they brought them, seemed to me like they said they brought them from Alabama, the most of them. But they brought a bunch in over there at Summer lee one time, because that mine was so hot, it had blowed up a few times . And it was one of the gassiest mines in the area. And it b lowed up there once and killed everybody in it. And it was called Perral at that time. Well, they couldn't get anybody to work there; people was afraid of it, so they
changed the name to Summerlee. And they brought in this transportation
of people from out of state, I don't know where they got them from. But
anyway, they didn't know where Summerlee was; they told them they was taking them to Summerlee.
PN: Where is that, in Fayette County?
HG: Yes, it's over, you know where Summerlee Road is over there out of east Oak Hill. Well, that takes you down into Summerlee, and I guess it's still working. But they brought that trainload of miners in there, and there was one foreigner fellow on there that had worked there before; and they didn't know that, that they had him. And when he looked out the window, and saw where he was at, he said, "This is no Summerlee. He said, "This is old Perral, blow up and kill everybody." And wouldn't any— body get off the train.
PN: What year was that?
HG: I don't know. I just heard them telling about it, you know; they said they brought that trainload in there, then couldn't get them off the train, because that fellow recognized the place.
PN: That was Lochgelly too. Didn't they change it's name? What was it's name?
HG: I don't remember now. Let's see, I 'm trying. Let's see, there was Lochgelly, and Oakwood. Oh, I can't think now, but I used to hear my dad talk about them places, now, he, he used to, when he was, just a boy and started to work over in there. That's where he started in the mines, was over in that area. And his mother's people lived over there; they were, Smithson was their name. And they lived in that area, and he went over there and stayed with his grandmother, you know, and worked there. His uncles worked in the mines there, and he worked in there with them.
PN: We were talking about Terry before. Did the Black and white people in Terry get along pretty well together?
HG: Oh, yes, yes, there was no problems. I remember a good friend of
mine was a colored boy, a Stevens boy. His dad was a preacher, he was
pastor of a church there. I remember him, he was a big man, tall and
broad shouldered. I used to think he was the best built man I 'd ever
seen; he'd just fill a door when he stepped up in it, you know, he was
that kind of a fellow.
PN: He was the preacher?
HG: Yea
PN: Did he work in the mines too?
HG: Oh yes, yes, he worked in the mines.
PN: Did most of the preachers work in the mines?
HG: Oh yea. They wasn't paid a salary, you know. They preached, and
worked in the mines.
PN: How about your dad when you said, was it your grandfather you said who…
HG: Yea, my grandfather was the preacher.
HG: Was he a full—time preacher?
HG: No, he was a farmer. And the only pay he got out of preaching, somebody would take up a free—will offering for him, you know. He wouldn't, oh, he'd have died before he'd ask for any pay. He just didn't do it. But they would usually take up, he would usually just about get his expenses out of it, you know; that's about what you get, a little church like that. People didn't have much money anyway. You'd see a few of them put in a bill, you know, but most of it was change.
PN: We have about two minutes left on the tape. Is there any final thing you think is important to get in there?
HG: Well.
PN: What do you think is the main thing that the union did for the men, and the women, and the whole families, and everybody?
HG: Well, the important thing, they give them the right to bargain, you know. Before, you didn't have that right, and men had to do just whatever the company said, or leave. I know I used to brake on the gathering motor .
And if you couldn’t outrun that motor, you didn't have a job. They didn't
slow down for anything. You'd ride off, and throw a switch, and open a before that trip got there, because the front end of that trip, and jump trap door; and you better get it open he wasn't slowing down for anything.
And I 've made couplings where they'd, I’d be standing between the cars, and they'd hit so hard, the cars would rear up, you know. They don't allow that anymore; see, they put a stop to all that. They got lots of men killed, hands cut off, you know. And I 've had coal loaders working in a place where the water would be up to his knees, and he couldn't hardly get a shovelful of coal. You'd get your shovel under the coal, and by the time you raise It up to the top of the water, the most of it's washed off. But, the only way he'd get rid of that water would be to bail it out with his shovel as he loaded coal. No pay for it. He'd just do the best he could to get rid of It. When they could have set a hand pump in there, and pumped it out; but they wouldn't do it. Now, they'd tell a man, "Now, either you work it or take your tools. There's another man outside waiting for a job. He'll work it. And usually that was true, you know.
PN: But the union put a stop to that?
HG: The union put a stop to that. They had to pay for work that you did.
PN: I guess it's just about run out.
[End of Tape]
Description
Terry, Coal mining - life in the towns, Terry, Baldwin-Felts operations
Date Created
08/06/1980
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