Audio
Elizabeth de la Torre Part 1
Transcript
Conklin: [00:26] I’m trying to get a feeling for how your voice is coming along.
de la Torre [00:28] My voice has a little soprano in it. I like to lower it because it sounds better.
Conklin: [00:38] The volume looks good to me on this machine, actually my voice is a little loud. O.K. I think what we will do is - -
de la Torre [00:50] O.K. you want to start?
Conklin: [01:03] Elizabeth de la Torre, where were you born?
de la Torre [01:05] I was born in Los Angeles, California.
Conklin: [01:08] When were you born?
de la Torre [01:10] June 5, 1916.
Conklin: [01:13] Who were your parents?
de la Torre [01:15] My father was Alexander de la Torre and he was a native Californian, in fact I am a sixth generation Californian. My mother was born in London, England. I’m not quite sure how she got here, but she got here. She lived in Redondo Beach with her mother who was a widow and an uncle who was the Pastor of St. James Church. Now my mother was born in 1884 and she graduated from high school because of her uncle who was an educated Priest and I don’t know how she met my father, have no idea. They were married April 15, 1915 and I was born June 5, 1916. My mother’s maiden name was Mary Jane Malpray , M- A-L-P-R-A-Y. We know very little of her ancestry. Conklin: [02:33] O.K.
de la Torre [02:35] My father’s side we have a genealogy. I went to St. Mary’s grammar school and Roseville High School and to Los Angeles Jr. College. I went to work for the YWCA and the YMCA and at that time World War II broke out. I joined the USO and it was the NCCSUSO (National Catholic Community Service USO) and the week after December 7th the first USO was opened and a few of us -- I don’t know how we got there, somebody got us there -- and we all went to greet all the young service personnel. We had nothing but Colonels come in that day.
Conklin: [03:37] Let me stop for just a second, how old were you?
de la Torre [03:40] 1941 – I was about 25, yeah, I was 25. I couldn’t get a drink though, nobody would give me a drink (laughing). Anyway, we were all there and all we had were Officers, Generals and Colonels and we kept saying to each other “where are the service men – where are the service men?” Well, the day after we were flooded and we were flooded all the time. The USO moved down to Figueroa Street and I was still being a dancing dolly, dancing, and what not.
Conklin: [04:23] Can I stop you here for a second, dancing dolly, is that your personal term?
de la Torre [04:29] That’s my personal term.
Conklin: [04:33] It wasn’t a commonly used expression?
de la Torre [04:35] No, it was my personal term. The lady in charge was a Mrs. Ferguson and one day she called me in the office, and she said, “Elizabeth do you know that the Army has these jobs where you work like we do except on the post with the young, enlisted people?” “No, Mrs. Ferguson.” She said, “Well I know two ladies who are looking for what they call a Jr. Hostess.” I said “Oh.” She said, “I think you would make a good Jr. Hostess.” “I will” I said, “O.K. – why not?” We went out to Santa Anita racetrack, and I went out there and I walked into the lounge for the racetrack, and I looked in there and there were young men as far as I could see. (laughing) I said, “Where is Mrs. So-and-So’s office?” They said, “over there,” and I walked across that room and was never so shocked in all my life that all eyes were on me.
Conklin: [05:50] How did that make you feel?
de la Torre [05:53] I didn’t know – why is this happening – this doesn’t happen.
Conklin: [05:59] Did you feel nervous?
de la Torre [06:01] I think more apprehensive than nervous. I went in and talked to the lady there and she said, “oh, your 25 but your too young looking, I just can’t have you here, I’ve got to have an older looking woman as a Jr. Hostess.” So I said, “Thank you very much” and I went back [to the] USO. Mrs. Ferguson said, “well there is a lady down in San Diego, at Camp Pendelton,” which is now where the San Diego U.C. Campus is in Torrey Pines. I called Mrs. Priest, I guess Mrs. Ferguson called her and I called, her name was Helen Priest, and I made arrangements to go down and meet her. I went down by bus and went to the Post where the guards were at the entrance of the Post. They knew I was coming and so they took me by car to the Service Club. At the Service Club, I was interviewed, and I stayed overnight for a couple of nights and on Monday I went to Post Headquarters and met the Colonel and the Deputy Commander and they were very nice and they said “Oh, she’ll do.” (laughing) I was taken to Civilian Personnel and made out all the papers. Now at that time, I don’t recall what our official title was, but when I went to work at the Presidio that’s when I learned what the official title was. From what I understand, in World War II we were kind of a nebulous state – not clear and defined, or a job title or anything. I think I made about $1,500 a year.
Conklin: [08:18] Now this was in the San Diego Area?
de la Torre [08:21] Yes, because in 1941, I mean 1944. I made the same when I went over to Mitchell Convalescent Hospital. Then I, when the _____ installations closed, went back to Los Angeles and applied to go to the University of California in Berkeley. In between I did some research and I found out that campus did have a program, a recreation program, which was not PE. You learned all kinds of activities, social activities, how to conduct dances, how to control them, tournaments, and stuff like that in a building. So, I applied to U.C. and got admitted and I was in a program they called Group Major and Recreation. We had to take a lot of PE courses, we had to take anatomy, kinesiology courses conducted by one of the men, one of the professors in the men’s department on how to run dances and parties and stuff like that. Of course, I had learned at Camp Pendelton and Mitchell Convalescent Hospital. I had learned these things just by evaporation.
Conklin: [09:44] Let’s back up a minute, you came up here to San Francisco and you were going to U.C. Berkeley?
de la Torre [09:50] Yes.
Conklin: [09:51] When did you start working at the Presidio?
de la Torre [09:54] After I graduated.
Conklin: [09:56] O.K.
de la Torre [09:58] I graduated in 1950 and reapplied here in 6th Army and they called me over and, at that time we had like, in the 6th Army area, we had like 20 or so Posts. Like at Ft Booth they had like four. Ft. Ord had about four. We had three at the Presidio; one at the Presidio, one at Ft. Baker and one at Ft. Cronkite. I applied and I was interviewed. They made me stay through evening activities and Col. Schoupen came, he was the Special Services Officer. Col. Schoupen, I must tell you, everybody always used to say he looks exactly like Adolph Monsheu (sp). (laughing) That’s what Col. Schoupen looked like, Adolph Monsheu (sp). I was to stay for the evening activities and what not and I guess I impressed him favorably. I was called a few days later and said that Col. Schoupen has selected you of all the ones we have interviewed. That was fine. So, I moved over to, we lived on Post in Bldg. 116, so I moved over to the Post and started to work. Service Clubs operated seven days a week.
Conklin: [11:28] O.K...– I’d like to talk about where you lived for a minute. In the building, who else was in the building with you?
de la Torre [11:34] Oh, one librarian and – no, two librarians and three Service Club people.
Conklin: [11:45] So, this was a single woman’s dormitory?
de la Torre [11:51] Yes.
Conklin: [11:52] How big was your room? Was it just a room with a bed and a dresser? Can you describe your room? de la Torre [12:03] Yeah, one had, we had nice beds, single beds, actually more like a ¾ size bed. We had a couple of dressers and a closet. We had a shower and a toilet, one upstairs and one downstairs. So, let’s see, two women lived downstairs and three lived upstairs.
Conklin: [12:41] Did you each have a separate room or did you have to share a room?
de la Torre [12:44] No, we each had a separate room. We also had a kitchen and a kind of a dining room and we prepared our own meals. We did not shop at the Commissary because we weren’t allowed to. We used to go off Post by bus to the Marina, to the Safeway there and get our stuff. A lot of times we decided we needed to walk back, so we walked back. Drivers would see us and pick us up outside and bring us back to our quarters. We did eat at the Officers Club occasionally but we didn’t overdo it.
Conklin: [13:26] Was it difficult living with people that you worked with?
de la Torre [13:29] I didn’t find it difficult because most of us had friends in town or relatives or something and our days off – we took off. So, on our days off we didn’t spend most times in the dormitory. I had a sister who lived in Berkeley so I’d go over to Berkeley and nearly everybody left. We didn’t spend that much time, off duty time, with each other.
Conklin: [13:59] Did you all get along pretty well?
de la Torre [14:01] Umm, some better than others. We had some women who for some reason I don’t know why acted like they were “God’s Gift” to these young people. They were not liked by the young people. If you walked in like “I’m doing you a favor” you couldn’t get them to participate in the program; they just would not do it. You’d try to explain it to them, you don’t do that to these people. “Well, after all I am a college graduate,” oh, it was terrible. Those people usually didn’t last very long because we had mostly male personnel and I started getting acquainted with some of the women and I encouraged the women to come. Some of the women who were in the jobs like I did not want to deal with the young women in the service and I didn’t think that was fair. So, I started getting acquainted with the young women and asking them to come over and I would see to it that they were included in everything. We got along all right you know.
Conklin: [15:22] What were your responsibilities on a daily basis? What was a typical day like?
de la Torre [15:27] There was hardly a “typical” day. Every day we had two or three different programs plus self-directed activity. The big room on the East side of Building 135, we had 3 pool tables, snooker, and billiards. Those two didn’t get used that much, they were used by older men, particularly Sergeants who used to come in and use those tables. Two ping pong tables and shuffleboard table, so they would check out equipment from the desk, but at the office they would check out pool balls and que stick and a triangle.
Conklin: [16:15] Did they have to leave you any identification or ---
de la Torre [16:17] They had to just sign and we checked their ID cards. We were not allowed to take their ID cards because they signed we checked their ID cards. Afterwards you got to know them so you didn’t bother, you know. Jerry Garcia apparently used our Service Club, which I found out in reading about him. When he was at the Presidio he spent a great deal of time in the recreation area practicing on a box guitar. The only place he would have gotten a box guitar was then at the Service Club. We had six Gibson J50 guitars, we had a couple of trumpets, a slide horn, base fiddle, we had three pianos.
Conklin: [17:11] Did you have any sound proof [practice] rooms that people played in by themselves?
de la Torre [17:18] When I was first there, they went to the different rooms that we had. Later on, we built sound proof rooms and that helped a lot. Service Clubs, when ours was built there was no directives from Washington as to what was supposed to be contained in a Service Clubs. Afterwards, Montain Abernathy (sp) became in charge of all the Service Clubs and Service Club personnel. She had been in Europe, she went to the Engineers Dept. and said, “this is how these buildings have to be built” and once she practically crowned them over their heads because the buildings were built the way they were supposed to be built. She designed them and then they started building them. The building we had at the Presidio was a beautiful building but non-functional as they come.
Conklin: [18::24] What was her biggest complaint?
de la Torre [18:26] Our biggest complaint was that we didn’t have enough smaller individual rooms for small things to be done. Of course the pool room was a big room, but that was great because lot’s of people played pool. Once a week we had pool tournaments and at the same time we had a shuffleboard and ping pong tournaments. On Sunday we had stage shows brought in from town. On Monday we had, once a month we had a talent show and otherwise we had a quiz show. Tuesday we had ---
Conklin: [19:09] Did you make up the questions for the quiz show? How did the quiz show get put together?
de la Torre [19:14] Go to the library (laughing) and getting all kinds of books. I had such a great time when I first worked at the Presidio. We had a lot of men who were college graduates, so they’d say “hey – let me make it up” and I’d say “fine” and they’d go to the Library and they’d make up the quiz show. It was great; we’d have 50-60 people participating in the quiz show.
Conklin: [19:39] Do you have any of the questions? Did you keep any of that material?
de la Torre [19:43] I may have, out in my storage area.
Conklin: [19:48] That would be interesting to see.
de la Torre [19:50] Yeah, I’ll have to get all that stuff out and then take it to you. Wednesday, I don’t recall, Thursday we had our dances and people wanted to know why do you have dances on Thursday? I didn’t know why they did it so I used to tell them “oh, so that’s early enough so you can get the neighborhood girl and call her on Friday for date,” [laughing] then some of the people who were in charge, because I was a junior employee.
Conklin: [20:28] A Junior Hostess?
de la Torre [20:30] No, by this time, I was a Program Director. The Junior Hostess business was only in 44-46. After World War II, in the early 50’s they changed our title to GS 188 Social and Recreation Specialist and so then you were a Club Director or a Program Director. I was a Program Director and the Club Director kind of looked at me funny when she heard what I was telling the fellows. I said “it’s the truth and you know it” and they used to laugh at me. The men used to laugh at me, “oh, Miss de la Torre, your so funny, your so funny”and I would say “wasn’t that right – if we had the dance on Friday you couldn’t ask somebody for a date on Saturday” and they’d say “that’s right.” The USO did not want the girls going out with the men.
Conklin: [21:31] I understood you imported girls by the busload? How did that go?
de la Torre [21:34] Yeah, well, we used to order buses, that was one of my tasks was to prepare the request list for buses, once a month. We went to various places, we went to the student nurses homes, and we went to the YWCA. We went to, there was a place on Page and Market and it was a woman’s residence and I forget the name of it. We’d send out like 3 buses and they would bring all these girls in. In 1964, that source started to drop, we started having more trouble and in 1964, Marge Sheffield (sp) was hired by the USO and she organized girls just to go out to military installations. They were called USO Girls on the Go. They didn’t attend the programs at the USO on Market Street. They just came to go out to military installations and so they were doing all this organizing, what one are we going to send them to. By that time, I’d been ostracized (laughing) to Ft. Baker.
Conklin: [22:59] Well, how did you get ostracized to Fr. Baker?
de la Torre [23:01] There was some politics involved and I’m not a good politician.
Conklin: [23:06] What was that about?
de la Torre [23:09] Well, it was the woman who was at Ft. Ord, she didn’t think I was doing a good job and somehow she, oh, by this time they had a Post Service Club Director.
Conklin: [23:21] How would someone way down in Ft. Ord know about what you were doing in San Francisco?
de la Torre [23:25] Oh, I don’t know – well she was friends with the woman who was in charge, the Post Service Club Director. I guess I had done a few funny things, but everything I did was to encourage enlisted.
Conklin: [23:38] What do you think those few funny things were? It would be interesting.
de la Torre [23:41] Probably, sometimes they thought I was too friendly with them and I spent too much time talking to them because they’ve got a few questions you know. Little Joe would come in, hang dog “what’s the matter?”________(laughing) and I’d say “well, let’s talk about it” and we’d go over and talk about it. I think they didn’t want me to be real funny with these young troops but I was 34 years old. These kid’s are 20 years old so that’s why they considered me their “big sister” and we would talk about things. They would ask me all kinds of things and they’d say, “oh, your not supposed to talk about this” “why not?” They’ve got to ask somebody, might as well ask me.
Conklin: [24:31] When we spoke earlier you [said you]were never [their] Mother.
de la Torre [24:35] That’s right, I wasn’t. I’d tell them, “I’m your big sister.” One of them came in and called me a mother – NO WAY – I said; “I’m your big sister.” “I’m not your mother – just remember that.”
Conklin: [24:56] Why was that important?
de la Torre [24:58] To me? Because I thought as a big sister they might be more at ease telling me things that they really wanted to know. You’d be surprised some of the questions about sex they asked me.
Conklin: [25:02] Can you tell me?
de la Torre [25:04] Well, I can’t remember now but I’d say, “but WHAT?”
Conklin: [25:08] About the mechanics or….
de la Torre [25:10] Anything, really and I’d say, “I can’t believe it – didn’t your mother ever tell you anything? Did you pick up everything at school?” “No, Ma’am, I didn’t.” So, I’d tell them, sometimes I’d tell them where to find some books or to go to the hospital and see a doctor about it. Now some of the girls and young women would come to me and one came and said to me she was pregnant and I said “Oh, no.”
Conklin: [25:39] How did the Army view that?
de la Torre [25:41] Not very well at that time, they were discharged.
Conklin: [25:45] This was what year?
de la Torre [25:47] In the 50’s. I would say to them, “well, you might as well confess it and you might as well get a discharge right now.” “Well, I can’t go home, my parents will kill me,” so I said, “well I know a few places in San Francisco” which I guess I wasn’t supposed to but who are they going to go to? Who are they going to go to? So, I sent a number of them to that St. Elizabeth’s Home on Masonic. I got acquainted with the Sisters. I went in my little uniform and I told them that some of these young women are going to be booted out of the Army and they can’t go home and what’s the procedure and the Nun’s would say,“send them over here we’ll take care of them, we’ll take care of the paperwork.” So that’s where I’d send the young women.
Conklin: [26:45] Do you think it was this that started to get you in trouble?
de la Torre [26:50] I think it did, yeah, yeah. They couldn’t get it from the hospital. So, anyway, I got sent to Ft. Baker.
Conklin: [27:00] Do you know the building number or the streets, I’m just worried the building numbers somehow may have changed.
de la Torre [27:06] Ft. Baker, the building is no longer in existence, it’s been torn down. I was over there last year and it had been the Post Theatre at one time. I went there and – oh, it’s gone (laughing). Then I was sent for a while, right early when I started in the early 50’s I went to when we opened Ft. Cronkite the woman in charge, I remember seeing her, I can’t remember her name. One day, she said “I don’t want to do this” and she just walked out. Col. Schoupen, good old Col .Schoupen, said “well, Elizabeth, you go over and take care of it” “WHAT?”
Conklin: [27:58] So, you were moved to Ft. Baker - - -
de la Torre [28:00] First I was moved, in the early 50’s, I was moved to Ft. Cronkite until they could hire another Service Club Director.
Conklin: [28:10] Where did you live, still back on the Post?
de la Torre [28:14] Yeah, we lived on Post, but you see we have a bus system that went throughout, it went all the way out to Ft. Cronkite. I would take the bus home and the bus driver, the last run, he’d come in and get me. Conklin: [28:28] Was there a difference in the mood and the feeling kind of being way out in the “boonies” as you were at Cronkite versus the Main Post?
de la Torre [28:37] Yes, they felt like they were ostracized out there, they were the people that ran the missile sites. There is one missile site where a missile still is and they were the ones who ran and who were out there in the missile site. Of course those missiles were manned 24 hours a day. So, they kind of felt ostracized. We had the USO girls come out there and have dances and we did much the same program. We, at Ft. Baker, Dorothy Webb was there, she was the Club Director and between Dorothy and me and the woman who was Club Director at the Presidio, we’d call each other up and say “let’s have a picnic.” We’d find a place to have a picnic and we’d order buses and we’d go get the food and just take everybody to a picnic.
Conklin: [29:32] That was part of your budget, to pay for the food?
de la Torre [29:36] Yeah, the Army paid for the food. That was originally on the non-appropriated funds budget. Do you know what the difference between the appropriated and non-appropriated?
Conklin: [29:43] I don’t know if we really need to talk about it.
de la Torre [29:46] O.K. So, we’d go to the Commissary and get it then we’d take picnics out. We used to plan those a month ahead of time so we could order the buses and get the food and get the people signed up. [We’d] go to wherever we were going and reserve the park or whatever we were doing.
Conklin: [29:56] What parks would you go to – what locations?
de la Torre [30:00] We went to Golden Gate Park and there were locations at Ft. Cronkite. We’d just go down to the beach and have picnic on the beach. We would go over to the East Bay to Regional Parks and we’d take picnics over there.
Conklin: [30:29] How were you received by the general populace at these parks? Was this a time when the military was respected and liked? It changed over time.
de la Torre [30:29] Yeah that changed, but at that time that was Korean War and right afterwards. We didn’t have too much trouble. In fact, people would come over and join us.
Conklin: [30:51] We are going to stop now and I will turn the tape over.
(Side B Tape 1 of 1) [00:00] The dances that you would plan, you mentioned earlier when we talked on the phone about “funny business” and that you had to keep a control of the “funny business.” What was that about?
de la Torre [00:12] Well, you know how young people are, they start poking each other and some of the older men who came to the dances, they’d try to sneak a bottle in and I’d have to go up and say…..
Conklin: [00:30] So, the motion of you are making, wagging your finger back and forth and then you’d do the beckoning finger.
de la Torre [00:37] And then we’d go outside and I’d say “you know your not supposed to do that, you know there is no liquor allowed in this building.” Then I’d act mad if I thought I could get away with it – “no I’m sorry.” Then I’d say, “you can come back, but you get rid of the bottle” and usually they didn’t get mad at me. Every once in while a fight would break out – really a fight on the dance floor and of course all the girls would go “ugh.” I’d walk right out there and usually somebody would follow me. I’d walk right out there and I’d say “what do you think your doing” and they would stop, you know. I’d take them by the hand, each one and I’d walk them outside and in front of Bldg. 135. There’s this great big circular lawn and I’d say, “you go over there and fight on that lawn and I’m standing here.” Everybody would laugh and I’d say “go back to dancing, go back,” you know. I’d just stand there and pretty soon they’d walk off together. Of course you had girls trying to outdo each other and I’d say, “all right girls, take it easy.” When I first worked at the Presidio we used to have a group of Black African American girls [that] used to come with this very, very nice older lady. At that time they did not want the races mixing at dances. Finally we got over that.
Conklin: [02:28] How did you work all that?
de la Torre [02:31] Well, it was the African American girls. If a Caucasian young man asked her to dance she would say “no, thank you” and if African American soldiers – you must remember this was right after Truman, his edict that was ’49, this was early 50’s. It took about five years to get over that and the woman who was in charge when I was first there, she was adamant about black and whites not dancing together. When she left things were easing up.
Conklin: [03:23] Was there ever a point where blacks and whites did dance together?
de la Torre [03:27] Oh, sure, I would say about 1955-56 and I’d say that this has to cease. I was now in charge and I said, “everybody dance together.” Even some of our black girls in service felt kind of funny when they found that anybody – like Miss de la Torre said, “anybody could dance with anybody.” After all, we are all in the Army together. Then, everybody danced together.
Conklin: [03:59] Do you remember the first time, the first interracial couple started dancing, what was that like?
de la Torre [04:05] No, I don’t remember, I just didn’t make an issue of it. By that time, everybody had gotten used to it, so from then on it continued. One thing about the people, who worked there, we were not allowed to dance. We were there to supervise and be in charge and they were very, very particular about that, which, to me, was fine.
Conklin: [04:32] The Park Historian specifically wanted to have me ask you some questions, so I want to make sure we get those in now. Do you remember any murals or artwork or paintings? How did they first decorate the building or furnish it?
de la Torre [04:48] Well, when it was first opened, oh, I must tell you, you should know where the money for this building came from and how.
Conklin: [04:56] That’s probably recorded, so that’s O.K.
de la Torre [05:00] O.K. The building opened on May 4, 1949 and it was opened by General Mark Clark and they had a big program. I wasn’t there. At the back of the building over the fireplace there was a big mural, great big mural.
Conklin: [05:20] Do you know what happened to it? de la Torre [05:22] When they repainted the building, it got painted out.
Conklin: [05:27] Did they actually paint on top of the mural, or did they put a piece of wood over it and painted that?
de la Torre [05:34] No, they just painted it over. It’s too bad, but that was determined not by me, but by other people. We had Mrs. Mark Clark helped to select the furniture originally.
Conklin: [05:50] Was it military issue furniture or downtown Sloanes?
de la Torre [05:56] No, wherever they got it because, but it was regular home kind of furniture. It was not military and it was not institutional, it was like it was at home. In the big lounge, we had three passenger sofas set around with club chairs around and we had tables for them to play games, and they were spotted around. Everything was done to make it as “homelike” as possible.
Conklin: [06:33] Furniture, being upholstered or naugahyde or - - -
de la Torre [06:37] The first group was upholstered and it was very, very nice. I do remember the rugs were placed between, there was space between the rugs. That building from the balcony to the windows is about 40 feet wide. These rugs ran the whole way and there would be thick holes and there was a space between the rugs. The rugs were green and they were the, what do they call those, were they sculptured or you know what I mean, they have a pattern cut into them.
Conklin: [07:24] Sculptured, cut into the material?
de la Torre [07:26] Yeah, and then the furniture all harmonized with that. All the furniture was upholstered. The chairs for the square tables, where they could play cards and things, those were all upholstered. In about 8 years, all of it wore out – just wore out. We had to get some new furniture.
Conklin: [07:55] You didn’t have it refinished, you just bought new?
de la Torre [07:58] No, we got new furniture. This time we changed the rugs, we changed the whole thing. We got new drapes.
Conklin: [08:09] Who did that? Who did you - - -
de la Torre [08:13] We, through supply.
Conklin: [08:18] You got to decide?
de la Torre [08:21] Oh, yes, yes. Through supply we got contacts of people we, you know, wholesalers and we brought them out. What we did, we got very big swatches of drapes and carpeting and we put them there and we said to the people who used it, “what colors do you want?” It was amazing how they all selected about the same colors. When we put it out, they said, “oh, you got the colors we asked for.” I thought, since they use the building, that they should have something to say. It made them feel more like they belonged. The drapes in the big lounge are like 20 feet tall and they cost an arm and a leg and I don’t know what the budget was because I wasn’t involved in that. Somebody else was involved; I don’t know who but probably Special Services Officer and Supply. They let us do the selecting with the personnel. The furniture had worn out and the chairs, after being pushed back and forth for about 10 years, they were coming apart. We got new chairs and this time we got round tables because we found when we played games round tables had more space. I think they were 42” and there was also a place to put little bowls with refreshments on. On the square tables, there wasn’t this space. We had contests.
Conklin: [10:01] There were some very important historically significant events that took place at the Club. On August 30, 1951 there was the signing of the Tri-Partite Security Treaty. What do you remember of that?
de la Torre [10:19] What do I remember of that – oh, I had just started to work there and we used to have a program called “Report from the Armed Services.” There was this very handsome Sergeant who had worked on radio and TV in Los Angeles and he was with Public Affairs. I was included in preparing this building for that. Col. Schoupen decided I would represent Special Services and go down and appear on TV. So, they drilled me and this handsome Sergeant drilled me of the questions they’d ask and what I was to tell. So, I went down in a staff car (laughing) went up to this TV studio, I don’t even remember which one it was, all I know it was in the Fairmont Hotel. I went on the show and handsome Sergeant asked me all these questions and just described what was going on and everything, you know, and when I came back, everybody said, “you look like you’ve been on TV all your life.” (laughing) I was scared to death. I told them what was happening and they gave me all the information. Col. Schoupen said I just think of you the star of TV of all the staff members (laughing) and I said “Oh, God.”
Conklin: [12:04] So what was it like, was it exciting, scary?
de la Torre [12:07] No, it was exciting, it was exciting. They started setting it up and they brought in all kinds of stuff from commercial companies with chairs to set up the place. They brought in these people that you hire to bring in plants and things. They brought that in and they decided that I was going to be the one that was going to tell them what to do and they gave me the – here I am the newest one on the staff -- and they gave me all this. Here is the way they had done it and so I had to meet all these people. I don’t know where the other staff members went to, I have no idea.
Conklin: [12:51] But you set up, physically set up the meeting?
de la Torre [12:53] No, they gave me the instructions and I had to tell the people, here’s what your supposed to do. Here is where the big table goes and here’s the flags and all that. The man with the plants, here’s where the plants are to as I have these plans.
Conklin: [13:07] Did it all go according to plan or are there any amusing stories or any catastrophes?
de la Torre [13:12] Well, I tell you what, and after I do all this work, oh, we had Secret Service walking around the building all the time and that building was just, had the latest security measures they had, because we had important people coming in.
Conklin: [13:25] Who, could you remember?
de la Torre [13:30] Well, somebody from New Zealand, somebody from Australia and somebody from Japan. These were like consulate members or Ambassadors or somebody. After I do all this work I’d say to the chief security man, “well, are you going to give me a pass so I can be here and see all this?” He looked at me and said “NO”, I said, “after all doing all the work – why can’t I be here?”
Conklin: [14:00] So you weren’t there for the event?
de la Torre [14:03] Uh, uh, and I went to a friend’s house and watched it on TV. It was a warm day and they had all the soldiers there standing at attention and one of them fainted, I remember that. One of the young soldiers fainted and it was really something.
Conklin: [14:23] The next month, September 9, 1951, United States and Japanese Delegates signed a Joint Security Pact, do you remember. [She is answering the telephone so I’ll turn the tape off] We were talking about the United States and Japanese Delegates that signed the Security Pact, were you allowed? Did you again set up but couldn’t go? How did that work?
de la Torre [14:45] No, it was [a] much lesser affair and I was there, but I was just in the audience.
Conklin: [14:54] What were your impressions? Anything noteworthy?
de la Torre [14:57] Oh, very stuffy (laughing) and it was so formal and all that. But I was just there and I thought it was just kind of nice to be there and I was helping people, you know where people were supposed to sit and we had signs on all the seats. You always need to help somebody, so I was kind of helping out.
Conklin: [15:19] Did anybody, any particular person impress you favorably or unfavorably?
de la Torre [15:25] I was impressed with the people from Australia and New Zealand, I liked them.
Conklin: [15:31] Now this is back at the Tri- Partite Security Treaty Meeting, right?
de la Torre [15:36] No, this was the one later on in August.
Conklin: [15:38] Right, and then in September, the Japanese and United States Delegates had a Joint Security Pact. I thought you were telling me the differences between the two meetings. The Japanese event was less formal, less scary.
de la Torre [15:54] Yeah, yes. So, it was less formal and I don’t think the Band was there or all the soldiers, Honor Guard or all that. For the first one, Honor Guards and all the works you know, just absolutely all the works.
Conklin: [16:15] Apparently during the Korean War high ranking Officers of the Chinese National Army from Taiwan had a press interview at the Club. Do you remember that?
de la Torre [16:24] I don’t remember that at all.
Conklin: [16:26] Between August 23rd and September 23rd of 1953, there were 8 Army Transports bearing former American Prisoners of War docked at Ft. Mason and the men who were unable to meet their families apparently were brought to your Club, can you talk about that?
de la Torre [16:48] That’s right. Yes, they brought all these young men and I don’t know who supplied all the wonderful food but we had all this wonderful food and I would go around and sit and talk to them. We also had the telephone people set up telephones in there and they got to make calls, long distance calls to their homes. The telephone people took care of that there was a regular procedure they went through and then they would call them. I’d go around and sit and talk with them and what not and they’d tell me their experiences. I spent all my 8 hrs. there just sitting and talking with them, asking them where they were from and where they were going back to, what they were going to do.
Conklin: [17:33] Were they meeting their families at your Club?
de la Torre [17:36] Some of them did, but from the Club there transportation arranged to take them to a plane or train or a bus where they were going to go, but not a great number of families came.
Conklin: [17:54] I guess we will move on to something that I find very interesting. Describe your usual clientele before and after the draft.
de la Torre [18:06] O.K. In the early 50’s I remember most. In Headquarters Company 6th Army there was, they had 23 men who had passed the Bar in their local State they had come from, and they had the “plumb” jobs on Post. A lot of them worked in JAG (The Judge Advocate General) and they worked with the lawyers because there were a lot a problems with a lot of these young people at the time. Conklin: [18:47] Problems?
de la Torre [18:48] Well, sometimes I guess they were trying to get out of service or they had family problems. I’ll never forget one day when one of the men came. You must remember all of these men were lower ranking enlisted. None of them ever made Sergeants and they had law degrees. I would say to them “why don’t you become an Officer.” “Two years in and I’m gone!” (laughing) This one young man came in and said, “I’ve got a story to tell you.” I said “What?” He said, “a Sergeant died” and he said, “we are getting calls from around the world, everywhere he went, he got married. The latest today, number 23 called!” (laughing) Those are the kind of problems those people handled. I said “How – 23?” He said “yep.”
Conklin: [19:50] Basically they are highly educated and wanted to go on with their lives.
de la Torre [20:00] At that time, I was again sent down, I don’t know why they made me do it but I was the little ______so I did it. They sent me down to the War Memorial Opera House to see Mr. Schesede (sp) and another man. Mr. Schesede was in charge of the Symphony and they sent me down to see Mr. Schesede and see if I could con free Symphony tickets out of him. Well, they were very nice and we got maybe 100 tickets a week but you must remember that time, and the 6th Army Band was close to 100 people. Many of the people in the 6th Army Band had been music makers in college and they stayed on Base enlisted as the 6th Army Band and stayed 3 years. We had lots of people who could take tickets to the Symphony. Then in the other companies we had lots of men with graduate degrees. I just announced symphony tickets and there they were. It was a little different with the Opera, I didn’t have as much success with the Opera. Occasionally, I forget the name of the man, I used to call him, he would give me Opera tickets, but not many, you know like a dozen. When the Stator-Wells (sp) Ballet came we got 100 tickets to that and then I was sent down to talk to Lou Loury. Lou Loury owned the Curran, the Geary and lot’s of property and I explained to him what my mission was, complimentary tickets for the enlisted people. He said “for the enlisted?” I said, “That’s right Mr. Loury, the enlisted.” So, I would call him up and he would say, “sure, come on down.” Practically every show that opened in the 50’s, he gave us 100 tickets for opening night. Then afterwards I started getting acquainted with some of the other theatre managers and I would ask for tickets and I didn’t get 100 like from Mr. Loury, but we’d get maybe 50 tickets or 25 tickets for opening night or for shows. It meant a lot to those young people. At first we used to take them down in a bus and after about 4 years of begging these managers “do they still have to come in their uniforms when you give me the tickets like this, you know they are well behaved?” Do I have to escort them down in the bus and take them all, after all we have a lot of men in their mid-twenties.” So they said “no, they have proven themselves.”
Conklin: [23:04] They were worried that they wouldn’t act right and that’s why?
de la Torre [23:08] Um, yes, you know people had these funny ideas, especially about enlisted people. When I would tell Mr. Loury….
Conklin: [23:18] Funny meaning?
de la Torre [23:20] Well, these strange ideas that because they were enlisted they were uncouth, not when you have a guy with a Ph.D.! So, after about 5 years I talked them into just giving me the tickets and giving it to them.
Conklin: [23:36] We talked earlier that there was a decided change with the personnel after…
de la Torre [23:43] Oh, yeah, after ‘72, lower educational level, and it was interesting to watch when we had so many college people and better educated. A well, a lot of them hadn’t finished, you know they were drafted. It was interesting to see them talk to the others who hadn’t had the opportunity. They [would] say “gee, your lucky you went to college” and they’d tell them, “well, get a job, that’s how I did it.” We planned a program that ran for months and each month we’d give them things they’d have to see and do in San Francisco. They’d have to bring their facts, they would have this paper they would sign and have somebody sign that they had went to a museum or something like that. That went on for months. Now that went very well with those people. When we tried that after ‘72 when we had just enlistees, it did not fly.
Conklin: [24:51] What else was different?
de la Torre [24:55] Well, the feeling in the Club. There was a feeling like they were drafted and they were going to do their 2 years and they were not going to get into trouble. While they were in San Francisco they were going to take advantage of the City. They would take advantage of the good parts of the City. They would come in and tell me they belonged to one of the Sororities, do they have one at Cal or Stanford. I’d say “well, I think so, let me call, I’ll find out” and I’d say “yes.” I’d ask for the contact and the men would go and that would be the last I ever saw them when they found their fraternities at Cal and Stanford. I helped them find them and they were gone. They would come in when they were being discharged and say “thanks for helping me, I had a wonderful time while I was here.” You see, I didn’t have that when we got more enlistees, it was just hard to challenge them. The more educated people, they were up to a challenge and they’d say to you, “well, why can’t you do so and so?” and I’d say, “well, why don’t you do it” like you know, “surely you can do a better quiz then this.” I’d say "well you go to the library and do it” and they’d say “o.k.” and they would go do it. In fact quiz contests dropped, they weren’t interested, they just liked to shoot pool and play cards. I had a hard time getting them to play Monopoly or any of the games like that.
Conklin: [26:38] Did they want your private counseling as much as the earlier group.
de la Torre [26:41] No, they didn’t, no, they didn’t. I didn’t have them asking questions. We also had to be more strict about dances. The dances got a little more rough. They got a little tougher.
Conklin: [26:59] More fights or more sexual trouble?
de la Torre [27:01] Well, we did have some of that.
Conklin: [27:03] People dancing a little to intimately? Would that be the problem?
de la Torre [27:07] Yes, (laughing) and the girls would come to me. “I won’t dance with him” “why” “well, you know what he does.”
Conklin: [27:20] I love that little finger gesture you do, that little beckoning, what’s this finger called the pointer finger? For the benefit of the tape, I’m trying to describe your pointer finger. (both laughing)
de la Torre [27:35] I’d just go like this, “Johnny!” – we’d go in the office and I’d say “I just had a complaint from one of the girls and you know you don’t have to dance like that.” “I’m sorry Ma’am, I won’t do it again.” (laughing) I had more of that later on, the older men were much more proper. Of course dancing changed too because we used to have the 6th Army Band that played the 50’s and 60’s stuff. Enter the 60’s and 70’s and you get rock and roll and so it just kind of changed.
Conklin: [28:19] Did you have much of a “gay” clientele, homosexual people?
de la Torre [28:23] We knew who they were. They stayed to themselves and everybody knew who they were. Some of them were very nice and some of them were invited to play cards with other people. As long as they kept their place we didn’t have any trouble with them. We knew who they were; we never said anything about it.
Conklin: [28:49] As long as they kept to their place, meaning?
de la Torre [28:52] They didn’t make any advances to the other people. I did know over at Ft. Baker where there was one man who was a real problem and they sent him to the hospital. Unfortunately, I learned after he got out of the Army, I learned from some source that he was from Mississippi or someplace like that, that he had been murdered. He was a problem and he was kind of overt. I was always having to tell him to calm down, don’t do that, and of course the Colonel knew that he was a problem too.
Conklin: [29:35] We’re almost at the end of the interview, is there anything that you wanted to add?
de la Torre [29:39] Well, all I know is that I enjoyed working there, I had a lot of fun (laughing).
Conklin: [29:53] What years again, you started in…
de la Torre [29:55] I started in May 1, 1951.
Conklin: [30:00] And your last day of work was?
de la Torre [30:02] September 30, 1985. But there’s a lot more I can tell you.
Conklin: [30:09] Well, I think what we did was hit the high points on this interview and I told the Historian that I would give him the tape and the questions and if he want’s more about the topics. Well, thank you very much for your help today, it was fun.
de la Torre [30:23] Yeah, if he wants more, yeah. You’re welcome!
Description
Elizabeth de la Torre, worked in service clubs in the Presidio, Fort Baker and Fort Cronkhite in the 1950s and 1960s
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