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Oral History Project - McGraw, Tom 2025
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These interviews are presented here in their original form, unmodified, in an effort to preserve and share the history of our park and its surrounding area. The memories, comments, and viewpoints shared by interviewees in the materials of the New River Gorge Oral History Project and related documents do not represent the viewpoints of the National Park Service.
Thomas McGraw
Oral History Interview – Gauley River
6/16/2025
Canyon Rim Visitor Center
Interviewer: Mallory Meadows
MM: This is Mallory Meadows on June 16th, 2025. Doing an interview at the Canyon Rim Visitor Center. So if you will tell us your name and a general idea of when you would have been in or around the Gauley River.
TM: My name is Tom McGraw, and I actually grew up on the Gauley River in a little town called Brownsville, which was on route 39, going toward Summersville. I spent, pretty much all of my childhood on the river, enjoying the usual activities hunting, fishing, swimming, boating, I’d do a lot with friends that lived in the general area of the river.
MM: Around what years would that have been?
TM: It would have been from about 1954, give or take up through the time when I was, when I got married, which would have been 1975.
MM: So you remember the Gauley River before Summersville Dam and Summersville Lake were built?
TM: Oh, yeah. I remember going up. My dad would take me up when the dam construction began and the clearing of all the property, and we actually went up and we went on a construction road down over the hill where we could see the clearing of the trees and the clearing of the property. I remember the river prior to when the dam became operational compared to after it became operational. And it was quite a difference.
MM: So will you explain that difference? So maybe as you were a kid, you knew that they were planning to build the dam or the lake, what did the river really look like? Do you remember maybe how deep it was or if it looks different than it does now?
TM: It doesn't look a lot different compared to now as far as the terrain and everything around the dam, the dam didn't change that much. The one thing I remember about the dam that the change it made was certainly when the flood season came, the floods weren't quite as severe as they were previously, but also that the water temperature dropped dramatically after the dam came into being because river was a free flowing river at that time, and the water pretty much stayed warm. But once the dam came into place and the water began to fill the river from the bottom of the dam, which is because of the depth of the dam was very cold. Well, by the time I got down to my, my house, which is our where I lived during that area, it was probably 20, 25 miles, maybe. The water was much colder water to swim in than what we were used to, let me tell you.
MM: Do you remember seeing a difference in wildlife in the area after the dam was put in? Maybe different types of fish living there?
TM: Well, I think the colder water fish thrived. We used to fish and we used to catch bass and, you catch catfish. After the dam came to being, I got it a little, little. I was a little older then, and I didn't do as much fishing on the river as I did. I did those, but, I think more of the cold water fish came from came, didn't see as many catfish as I once did, not where I was anyway.
MM: So after the dam was built and during construction, do you remember what the river would have looked like flowing through what is now the lake?
TM: As best I can tell you, I've seen pictures, but it was like the Gauley River flowing downstream. Down where? The down approximately. Like where the boaters, the rafters and people put out of the river. And, there was supposed to ordinary West Virginia River and nothing. I mean, it really, it was just nothing extraordinary about it. It wasn't very wide. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't inordinately deep. It was just a meandering river coming down from upper Webster County.
MM: So before they built the dam, do you remember anyone saying anything, putting in the newspaper about doing this construction and their plans to create the lake and the dam?
TM: I vaguely remember the announcements about the dam, the, companies who I don't even remember who they were now that were building the dam, putting advertisements in posters around about picking the boys to do the do the work, particularly on the excavation and the, you know, the clearing work. I do remember that. I know we went up occasionally because it was like a Sunday drive. We'd go up occasionally to watch the progress, get a chance to go and see what you could see from from the, from wherever we were, which I can't exactly remember where we were, but I remember being able to see the progress of the the dam coming up. We did that a few times.
MM: So what was that progress like? Did you see the equipment scooping out the valley or just cutting down trees? What types of things would you have seen?
TM: Well, we got to see the initially we saw the progress in clearing, you know, the trees and stumps, houses and things of that nature. And then, as it progressed, I got, we got to see the equipment hauling, dumping, but I don't recall where they were hauling from. But I do remember seeing all the rock, the big heavy riprap that they were putting in the base and all that. So I do remember that.
MM: So there were a few communities like Gad that are now under the lake. Do you remember seeing any of those or going to any of those places?
TM: Never went to any of them. See, my recollection on that was, I don't think I saw any of them simply because where we were was at the main spillway or the dam itself was being constructed and not up away from it. You know, in back in more of the community, back in the hollows, as it were, other sorts of things. I don't remember.
MM: So do you remember maybe how your parents felt about the lake coming in? If you can remember that, maybe how they were, the things that they said about it, if they were maybe upset about it, happy about it.
TM: I don't think they had much of an attitude because where we lived, we weren't affected by river flooding as much as were other folks may have been in the in Brownsville. I lived up on the hill. All of our friends, we all communicate one way. They were always called the river rats. We were the mountain goats. And if you will, just some brief description, the, then it was in New York Central Railroad that goes up through goes up 39 and it went up to the coal mines, Nicholas County, Clay County, where have you. Then there was the river. Then there was housing along the river. Then there was a railroad track, then there was the rail there. Excuse me. There was route 39. All the property started up the hill and that's kind of where I lived. So I was out of the flood range. But I know that the people living on the river, who I had a number of friends live on the river were, hopeful that the dam would keep water out of their basements. To that degree, it it helped a lot. But we didn't really have much in my opinion, other than the excitement of the dam was coming in. It was creating employment. We were wondering how much Summersville was going to grow now. For several years it was just a little I mean, it was the county seat in Nicholas County, but it was just, compared to where it is now, a 10th of the size it is now.
MM: After the dam was built and the Gauley River was created, do you remember when rafting first became popular on the Gauley River rafting or boating?
TM: I couldn't give you an exact time, I know it was not long after after the dam got in. I can't even remember now. I remember vaguely that there were a number of people who were getting into some rafting. There wasn't the big companies like what are now on the river. Then it was independent individuals that had a raft, had a boat or something, and was willing to take people up and down the river. Adventurers went on their own and it just blossomed into all these rafting companies and what have you. I'd say it probably started. Let me see. Trying to think it in my hand here. A dam came into being probably in the middle 60s. Somewhere about there, I'd say probably the rafting industry probably got its initial start somewhere 3 to 5 years after the dam was in its best case. Yeah.
MM: Did it seem like there were a lot of local people willing to go on trips, or do you think that there was some indifference in the local population?
TM: I don't know that they know the local people. You mean as far as going rafting on the river? I don't think too many people did it. There wasn't this organized. Well, now, I mean, people say, well, let's go down the river, let's go fishing, let's go do this. And there wasn't a designation of all the rapids that the things like you have on your map here and, and the rafting company. So it was just people going and going and just going and doing that, raft going rafting, taking their chances. Most of Brownsville's people have had a boat or a raft. Let's go jump in and go down the river. And they do that. And I think that brought about the more of the organization with the rafting companies, because it was potentially very dangerous to go down the river. So before the dam was built that people really go down the river in boats or rafts. Not to the degree you have because you didn't have flow water.
MM: So to circle back on the community that you lived in, was it a mining community or just a regular toqn?
TM: Yeah. It was, it was a, it was kind of a combination community. A lot of the people that lived there worked at the what then was a Union Carbide metals plant, at Alloy. Yeah. And a number of them worked in the area, coal mines around about. And we could talk about that more later, but, it was coal mining, you know, blue collar community people were coal miners. People were truckers. Some of them worked on the railroad. We had people that were retired in the area. It was just kind of a cosmopolitan place. But but it was a working community.
MM: But it wasn't a designated a coal company owns this place?
TM: Oh no no no, no, no, I don't think there was any coal company owned housing in, in the in Brownsville. I may be mistaken, but I don't think it was. There certainly wasn't any tracts of land where you saw, you know, the, the postage stamp or the cookie cutter type of housing would belong to companies where they were all looked alike, except for maybe the color.
MM: So did you have any types of stores or businesses in the community?
TM: Let me see. We have a little mom and pop grocery store. Williams. Ella Walker yes. A couple characters, they were good. They're good people to work with. They been around. See, we had the store. We had a gas station for a while, and it kind of fizzled. We have beer joint. Oh. Had to have an obligatory beer joint. So we had a beer joint. And, you know, for recreation, the guys would get in the parking area across from the groceries, not the grocery store. Scuse me. Across from the gas station and the, beer joint, there was a, wide parking area. And on the parking, very close to the railroad track, all the all the all the older gentleman and the working people all showed up, particularly in summertime. Would all go there and they'd all pitch horseshoes. That was a recreation. And it was quite a quite a crowd actually.
MM: So, that was kind of with that was a kind of a little community working class everybody knew everybody kind of thing. The Gauley River is not directly connected to the New River until they come together to form the Kanawha River. But do you remember hearing anything about the mining communities that were along the new River? Maybe reading something in a newspaper or hearing someone talk about all of that that was happening down there?
TM: Vaguely. What what I remember was that my dad worked at the Alloy plant primarily, but whenever the plant would have, it's periodic layoff due to low water flows in the in the river, which meant they couldn't operate some of the furnaces because they were getting their power from the hydro plant at Gauley Bridge, which came through the this tunnel which was found, it started at Hawk's Nest Dam. When the when the water got low, they didn't have enough CFA, flow coming down the railroad to generate the necessary power to run the entire plant. So whenever those would occur and he would be laid off, he'd end up working for his brother who ran a coal mines up in Nicholas County. But I do remember him talking about trying to get jobs in coal mines up and around Fayetteville and up and down again there. But he always had a job. So I heard about the mines and knew about two mines. I knew people that worked in those mines, but I couldn't tell you too much about that from that standpoint, from that era in my life.
MM: So you mentioned the Alloy plant. Could you explain what that was, what they manufactured?
TM: Okay. It it has always been called the Alloy plant. But it was located in Alloy, West Virginia which is oh 4 or 5 miles or so down the river from Gauley Bridge. It was built in the 1930s by the Union Carbide Corporation, and that was part of the, if you've heard about the, you know, the Hawk’s Nest Tunnel disaster. Well, their construction of that plant was part and parcel of that, that tunnel project coming together. That's what they did was they built that containment dam, which is now the Hawks Nest Dam. And that dam then funneled through a tunnel, went underneath the mountain down to the base of Gauley Mountain, to a large hydroelectric plant that generated power with turbines transmitted that power through lines down the, I guess I would call it The Deepwater side. The of the of the river went down the down the river, crossed the river, and now the we went into what, their steam plant and they generated their power. So that plant then came into being. What they typically manufactured was silicon or silicon derivative types of metal for construction, for automobiles, for electrical components. They made actually one of the highest grade silicon metals in the world for that plant. And for a while they had one of, if not the largest silicon metal furnace in the world. Now, I don't know where that stands now, but at that point in time, it was, it was a pretty big deal. At one time, they employed around 3000 people. And, it was obviously a major employer.
MM: The Hawks Nest Tunnel disaster happened well before your childhood?
TM: That's correct.
MM: So we're not really going to go into that too much during this interview, but did your dad ever suffer any medical problems from his work at Alloy that you know of?
MM: He had some issues that he can never, never really get proven, but it's very likely he had some lung conditions from working in the metals plant. Remember, this metals plant operated for a number of years without any environmental protection directive I can recall. And I remember this one, I suppose would have been 16 or so when I was driving. I can recall that you could drive down route 61 down by the metals plant, and you could look up and could not see the tops of them [the mountains]. So the valley valley filled up with smoke and ash, what have you, people were always saying that you'd get up in the morning, you'd have to sweep the ash from the plant off the steps, off your cars and whatever this was prior to the EPA coming into effect and changing the whole dynamic of the way.
MM: Did the ash and smoke from the plant extend all the way to, say, Gauley Bridge or even to where you lived?
TM: Not generally. That typically was concentrated right there in the lower end of the valley, somewhere from the plant westward toward Montgomery, right down that way. Mostly it settled in Alloy, which was the community associated with the plant, which really no longer exists. And Boomer. And then on down into Long Acre and Smithers. But that was the general area where most of the debris dust ad what have you settled from the plant.
MM: So does that plant still exist today?
TM: Yes. It's, it belongs to a different organization, has gone through 2 or 3 hands on over time, but it still manufactures silica metal.
MM: So things that you would have done when you were a kid, you mentioned that you would swim in the Gauley River with your friends. Did you have a sense of community in your town? How was the town to live in?
TM: Oh, it's a great place to grow up. It wasn't unusual for me to leave the house early in the morning. Come back and come back home was dark. And reason I came home when it was dark was that it was too dark to be out and play. Everybody watched out for everyone else. The kids, we didn't have, didn't have the troubles they have today with kids. It was my great, great environment.
MM: Once you grew up and you got married, did you ever use the lake to go boating or fishing or swimming or anything?
TM: I never owned a boat. But we have friends that did. Yes. My family and I went up there. We went to the beach, up there to usually, see which one was where you went to, I think out with the men, but we go. We go up to the beach or we had friends camped up there. We go up and camp around the boat with them, that sort of thing. So we did do some of the recreation parts of it. I've never fished up in there. I've never fished below the dam. I've never done that. I’ve fished below Hawk's Nest damn, but I've never fished below the below the Summersville Dam.
MM: Is there anything that you want to add that we have not covered so far?
TM: Well, you and I talked a little bit in preparation for this, or we're talking about some of the communities that may have been that used to be there, that aren't there anymore. And I thought if you wanted me to, I will point those out to you on the map if you're interested.
MM: Yeah, we can talk about that and talk through where some of those communities used to be, and maybe what they were like or what happened there.
TM: Okay. Well, I gave you a little bit of a background of how the lay of the land was, as were on the Gauley, well, on the side of the river, on the route 39 side of the river where the road actually was. Or if you come out of Gauley Bridge, it's coming up, Gauley River, there's two ways you come up it. One, obviously, the road. The other one was you had the on my side of the river, if you let me say it that way. You had the New York Central Railroad went up that side. On the other side of the river was a spur line from the C&O railroad, which is now the Chessie. But seeing the railroad there now, that spur came up alongside the river and there were several places along side that river going up just within the area from Gauley Bridge up to about Alta, which was which would be three miles or so up the river. Okay. And there were a number of little communities that sprung up that were coal camps, maybe logging camps, logging community, but mostly coal because there was coal mines and coal operations on that side of the river. Well, one of the things that we talked about, if you come up, Gualey River on the C&O side, you're going to come up to them first. You're going to come up to a little town called Venetta. And this little town was a coal camp. The reason I know what I know about it is I went to school with a couple classmates who lived on that side of the river, and the only way that when I'd come down to go over and hang out with him or play with him, or do want to go fishing with him, the only way was I'd go down the river, go down a path on my side of the river, holler across the river at them. They bring the boat, come get me. And we go back. And I got to thinking about that. And I remember that they also had what was called what the railroad companies call a flat car. And they had one of those and it was sitting on the side of the tracks close to the house. So if I went to the store or they went to get something significant, had something more than you could carry the mile and a half or so out of that bridge back to their house, then they would put that flat car on the railroad track, push it down to Gauley Bridge, park it on the side or whatever, go over to the store. Gauley Bridge stores, it's nothing like that now. I mean, right where they are entirely different, but they get what they put their stuff on the flat car and they bring them up there. Whenever somebody would need to be buried on that side of the river, because there was a cemetery over there. I don't exactly know where that is, but there was a cemetery over there, and they bring the, you know, they bring the deceased up the river on the flat car and carry him up. They were the mules and that was the flat car that they got the stuff. So that little town was Vanetta. There was when I, when I was there with those folks, which would have been in the late 60s, there was the family of with the two guys, two kids that I grew up with, and there was another family that lived up in the same old community up on the hill from, in a more isolated place. But there was only a couple of families. Then you come on up to Brownsville, which is about two miles from Brownsville to Gauley Bridge on the 39 side. You get to the upper end of Brownsville, which would be another half a mile or so. There was a little community called Gamoca that was more of the, the coal camp community because it had the company store, it had a tipple. One of the mines were back up on the hill there, and access from there, it was it was not necessarily easy access, but it was an easier access to Gamoca because they had a suspension bridge that came from the Gauley River, the route 39 side of the river over to the C&O side of the river. So as you got across the suspension bridge, which is no longer there unfortunately, it had a rails on it so they could haul things across with platforms. I wasn't built to take heavy stuff, but you could bring a flat car across the river. To take stuff over there. There was, if you had the picture of it, you had a train station, company store type of thing here on down the river, on down toward the Gauley Bridge, maybe another quarter of a mile. And up on the hill you had a coal handler, a tipple. There was tracks there sufficient to handle a siding for train cars for hauling coal. And then if you went toward the other side going to the left, then you ran into the community of Gamoca where the mine superintendent and his family lived. Other people lived in there. There were it was a fairly, fairly sizable housing community. So when the coal played out on the those and obviously those communities just sort of disappeared. And then you went on up the river and the C&O trucks then crossed over at Belva and went on over into Clay County to pick up there. So that's kind of the community, if you will, in that area during the coal, during when coal was, you know, being mined a lot in, in that in that region. And I saw a picture the other day, too, by the way, of, I think it's one of your pictures, or it was a picture of the Devil's Tea Table, and it's up over actually to be it shows it coming in one way. But my grandfather, I don't vaguely remember it. My grandfather took me up the hill over at Venetta and we went up to the Devil’s Tea Table. I barely remember it and I couldn't find it now, I don't think. But I mean, I could find it, but I don't remember the path he took.
MM: So did your family live in this area for a long time?
TM: I would say they had lived there, we lived in the house my grandfather built. So I would say that he lived, the family lived there. Probably started, probably started somewhere in the 40s.
MM: Do you have any other final thoughts?
TM: No, but I'm sure I'll think of something to tell you later and you can write it down.
[End of Tape]
Description
Gauley River before Summersville Lake, Coal Mining communities at Gauley, Gauley Bridge,
Date Created
06/16/2025
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