Audio
A Woman Who Digs Deep - Jan Balsom - Episode 8
Transcript
TRANSCRIBED BY SAMANTHA DORR MARCH 23, 2010
MATT GUEBARD: Hello, and welcome to the National Park Service Southwest Archaeology Podcast. Brought to you by the Southern Arizona Office. My name’s Matt Guebard.
SHARLOT HART: And I’m Sharlot Hart.
SH: Welcome to episode eight of the National Park Service Southwest Archaeology Podcast. March is both Arizona’s Archaeology and Heritage Awareness Month, and it’s Women’s History Month. So today, we’re interviewing Jan Balsom of the Grand Canyon. Matt will give some background for Jan, then we’ll get to her interview, and as always, discuss some takeaways.
MG: So Sharlot, you had the opportunity to interview Jan Balsom, and, unfortunately, I wasn’t able to be a part of that interview. But, uh, she has a really remarkable career at Grand Canyon. She started, uh, working at the park in 1981. She became the park archaeologist in 1984. Served in that position until 1995, then, went on to be the chief of resources, meaning that she was in charge of the natural resource and cultural resource programs from 1995 until 2006. After that, she became the deputy chief for science and resource management, and now she’s the senior advisor to the superintendent. So, it’s worth mentioning that these are all really high profile jobs, at one of the world’s most well-known national parks. And, the work that she’s done over the years has really helped to influence not only the way that the cultural and natural resources are treated at Grand Canyon, but really, throughout the National Park Service, and certainly in the West, and in the Southwest, so she’s a really important and influential figure, uh, in sort of the development of-of archaeology, uh, in the National Park Service today.
SH: Good morning, I’m here with Jan Balsom, senior advisor to the superintendent of Grand Canyon National Park. Um, who started out as an archaeologist, and has, uh, risen through the ranks. Thank you for joining me today.
JAN BALSOM: My pleasure.
SH: Um, so, I guess we’ll start with some basic things about the Grand Canyon, most people have an idea in their head, uh, of what the Grand Canyon is. But can you give a brief overview of why the park was set aside, and the breadth of resources that, um, you’ve helped, uh, protect and preserve over the years?
JB: I’d be happy to, so, you know, Grand Canyon, it’s really funny, because when I first moved to Arizona, I had no idea what the Grand Canyon was, I’d never been west of Chicago. And, here I was, uh, driving from New York to Arizona to start graduate school, and I saw the signs for the Grand Canyon, and I said, oh, it’ll be my only opportunity, I better go.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: And, I’m driving, and I’m driving, and I’m driving with one of my old roommates, um, we’re driving, we’re driving, and, it just takes a long time, like, it seemed. And, it’s like, there’s this open landscape, I’d never really seen such a vast, open, western landscape before, so it was, I kept thinking, where are they hiding it?
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: It-it’s so big, I should be able to see it by now. And we finally got up to the park, and to Mather Point, and I did what most tourists did, which is I went to Mather Point, as was like, oh my gosh, then I went and bought a T-shirt and had lunch, and left.
SH: Right.
JB: So, it was a typical, um, Grand Canyon visit of less than three hours. Um, less than a year later, I ended up coming back, and working with a-a friend of mine who I met in graduate school, um, as an archaeologist at the Grand Canyon. And my world changed, and I think most people, when they have that opportunity, they come to the Grand Canyon, they think that it’s-it’s just like the painting a picture, but once you get to the park, you actually can see, and y-the smell the pine trees, you can hear the wind, you can, the n-night skies, I mean, all of the range of resources is a-it’s-it can be overwhelming, I’m like, from the natural side. And then there’s the layers of human history. And, all of those things together, just, give you a-a very robust idea of why the Grand Canyon was set aside, why Teddy Roosevelt said it’s one of the places every American should see. Why, um, it’s something that preserve for your children, and your children’s children, and, um, I’m hoping that the legacy that, of protection that we have now, will continue into the future, so everyone, really can enjoy the-the grand canyon as it is today.
SH: So what should visitors know about coming to the Grand Canyon so they can enjoy it?
JB: You know, when vi-folks come to the canyon, it’s funny, because I tend to, um, serve as a lot of my family’s tour guides.
SH: Yeah.
JB: Um, uh, the-the first thing is, um, hope for weather. Hope for something more than just sunny blue skies. Um, hope f-for opportunities to walk along the rim without being with a lot of other people. A-arrange your visit so you can come at early in the morning, so that you can come off-season. Um, set expectations for that, if you come in the middle of the summer, you’re gonna have middle of the summer crowds. Um, but take the time to even walk a trail for five minutes down below the rim. Even five minutes below the rim gives you a sense of your place in the landscape, and in the world. And the immensity of the canyon, and what that resource is, it doesn’t take very long. Um, so, go for a-a hike, walk along the rim. Take the time to smell, look at different times of the day. Um, you know, and enjoy the canyon, the forest surround it, and folks don’t, I don’t think a lot of people understand just how precious those forests are…
SH: Definitely.
JB: …as well. And then, the opportunities that we have, um, whether it be at, uh our visitors center in Mather Point area, whether it’s at the Desert View area that we’re currently working on, um, as a tribal heritage area. All of those things offer great, um, and-and diverse opportunities for enjoying the park. Um, so, have some time, um, spend more than I did my first visit. Less than, uh, three hours.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: Uh, try to spend a day, spend a night. I mean, it’s great to be able to see the sky at night, and wake up to the sunrise. Take the time, spend the night. Um, and if you’re like me, you start out saying, I’ll just come for a few hours, and you’ll end up making it a lifetime.
SH: Yeah.
JB: So.
SH: And your interpretive division does excellent star parties, and…
JB: Yep.
SH: …and-and night sky programming, too. That’s…
JB: Our, uh, night sky programs are so popular, that even those of who live there can’t, um, get up to the telescope.
SH: [LAUGH] Sounds about right. So, what is your role as a senior advisor, um, in managing all of these resources?
JB: The, uh, complexity of the resources of Grand Canyon, sort of lead me through a career that was a little different than I ever anticipated. Um, working directly for the superintendent now, puts me in a position to help, um, the superintendent’s office recognize the threats and opportunities that are posed. A lot of the work that I’ve done over the years has been addressing those threats from outside interests. Whether it be uranium mining, or, aircraft over-flights. Um, water and development outside the park. Um, operations of Glenn Canyon Dam, things that affect the cultural and natural resources, and visitor experiences, so. Um, it’s brining the, um, experiences and the information from my history at Grand Canyon so that we can apply it to decisions that we make today in terms of resource management, so, um, Grand Canyon’s not known for its cultural resources despite the fact that we have over 4,300, more than that now, recorded archaeological sites. We estimate there’s somewhere around 50,000 in the park.
SH: That’s amazing.
JB: Um, y-and it’s an amazing resource.
SH: Yeah.
JB: And, but it’s subtle. We aren’t Mesa Verde, we aren’t Chaco Canyon, um, you don’t see it, unless you know it’s there. because the people live differently on the land. And it’s such a vast landscape that you don’t necessarily notice it.
SH: Right.
JB: Th-that humans on that landscape, um, from the tribal perspective, from [INAUDIBLE] memorial, from, a archaeological s-perspective for about 12,000 years. So, huge history, um, that’s right there in the-and it’s invisible unless you take the time.
SH: Wow.
JB: But it’s a-it’s a fascinating resource.
SH: Excellent.
JB: Yeah.
SH: So you’ve spent the majority of your professional career at the Grand Canyon, um, starting out as a volunteer, um, while you were still in graduate school, and then after obtaining your degree in 1984, um, you started as the-as a park archaeologist, so, uh, what’s kept you at the Grand Canyon?
JB: You know, I, um, when I finished, uh, m-my graduate work, I all of a sudden was the park archaeologist at the ripe old age of 24. And, it was way too much.
SH: Yeah.
JB: Um, in a lot of ways, I was not prepared for that job. Um, but there I was. And, the thing about Grand Canyon is that, y-you can’t get bored unless you’re not doing something, I mean, there is always something to do. And I started out, um, s-simply, uh, simply, as the park archaeologist, as an archaeologist, then the park archaeologist, and I began to realize that all of these resources are connected. Um, we had a, uh, uh, joint natural cultural, uh, resource management program, so it’s a-both sides and then, you know, the, uh, recreation wilderness piece was always s-sort of our there. Which is a really important piece.
SH: Yeah.
JB: That most resource programs don’t address, that we really need to. Because those things, social resources, social values that are associated with them all-all part of it. And I ended up being, um, officed with the natural resources managers. Um, so, uh-I started realized early on that there was so much that was overlapping between what did…
SH: Yeah.
JB: …and that we needed to be working more together and, what always frustrated me was when I was putting in, um, proposals for regional funding to, the-the SCC program now was something different in the f-in years ago. Um, that there was no place to put in for joint projects between the resource categories. It had to either be in a cultural resource, NRPP, or CRPP.
SH: Mm-hmm.
JB: Couldn’t have, it was really hard to get those joint programs. Um, but we kept workin’ on ‘em, and we kept tryin’ to figure out ways to work together, so, we started, you know, s-a lot of the work was early on, just doing compliance archaeology. And then, I ended up as a tribal liaison as part of this, um, because I realized that that the law said we were supposed to consult, it wasn’t anybody doing that.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: And, I sent a letter-we were doing a project with Denver Service Center on the East Rim drive to build a parking lot for the New Hance trailhead. Um, and if anybody has, tried to park at the parking lot at the New Hance trailhead, you’ll find there is none.
SH: Right.
JB: Um, ‘cause we started the project, and, there-I was doing the archaeology, 106, and there was a pretty big lithic scatter there, and we didn’t know what else was there. And I knew we were supposed to consult. I didn’t really know how. I ended up as the 106 person as well. So I sent out these letters to all the tribes, um, that I knew of, that were associated with Grand Canyon at the time, there was only five. We have 11 now.
SH: Right.
JB: Um, and the entire Havasupai tribal council showed up at the superintendent’s office. And that was a good indication that maybe there was a concern.
SH: Yeah.
JB: And at that point in time, the superintendent, um, said, I guess we need somebody who does that. I guess it will be you.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: Um, so, the tribal liaison got added to my position at that point in time. And, i-it’s kind of interesting, because I think most archaeologists find themselves working with tribal people.
SH: Yeah.
JB: And, it’s good in a way, because, it’s we’re-we’re talking about ancestors, and whether, um, there y-you know, you’re American, um, or native peoples archaeologists deal with, um, the past and it’s the recent past as the distance past, so, connecting with the descended populations is great. Although most archaeologists go into archaeology because they don’t want to deal with living people.
SH: Right.
JB: So, m-many of us find ourselves in awkward situations where, we’re pretty much introverts, we don’t wanna actually do that stuff, um, and here we are doing that. So, working with the tribes brought a whole new dimension to the archaeology.
SH: Yeah?
JB: Because it-it wasn’t just stuff anymore, it was my grandparents, my great-grandparents. These are eras I know from, um, family’s histories. Um, and I say histories because many of my tribal colleagues have said, these are not stories. They are histories.
SH: Right.
JB: Um, so each time those things happened, my job changed. And it got m-more interesting, more complex, um, and more engaging. And, working with the tribal communities, the park had a pretty, um, difficult relationship with many of our tribal communities, especially the Havasupai. And, after eight years, the Havasupai finally started to talk to me. And, we bridged that gap, and, um, our relationship with the tribes in general is-is great.
SH: Excellent.
JB: I mean, we’ve worked from having a terrible relationship, to having a great relationship, and in most of the publications on American Indians and National Parks, Grand Canyon gets at least one, and sometimes two chapters.
SH: [CLEARS THROAT] Yeah.
JB: Because the difficulty of those situations um, but we’ve worked through it all to a point where, um, our tribal colleagues are-are really that, and, there’s, um, a-a really good way in which that we work together on moving those programs forward, and I think when I look at why, and what allowed me to stay at Grand Canyon so long, it was because I could continue to develop a program, ‘cause there really wasn’t one. I started out as the archaeologist, um, the woman who had hired me, who’s a former Park Service archaeologist had moved on. Um, so I kinda was it. And then, I needed to start the-
SH: For a park that big.
JB: For a park that big, and I started, needed to develop a program, so, compliance archaeology, fire archaeology, and then, I started realizing the just the breadth of the resources, and that’s-that shift got me into cultural resource management as a whole, looking at landscapes, and buildings, and, um, at the graphic resources, history, all of the sort of the, f-fuller range museum collections. All of those things, and, the-the reason why National Parks are set aside, is because people care about ‘em. And it’s that human dimension that allows us the protection and preservation stewardship, you know? It was us, our ancestors who passed the Antiquities Act through congress. Who set aside the National Parks. And, i-you know the-the myth of these, you know, these idyllic natural landscapes, well there are always people part of ‘em.
SH: Right. Yes.
JB: And, so I think our job is to help connect people and place. And, as archaeologists, we have an opportunity to use the material culture of-that we find, to create those histories to get the broader public more interested in what we’re doing. And once you know, you get that engagement, you have a stewardship. And you have people who care, and you have advocates. And all of those things help with what we do today, and it helps us move forward, it helps the parks move forward. It helps keep us relevant.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: And I think that that’s so much of what, you know, my career has ended up being, not, anything I planned, um, but it’s a way to engage, and it’s a way to keep those things engaging. And, there’s the-the purists out there, um, but, I think that they’re getting f-uh, more isolated, because, w-we have a society that really needs to f-find relevance and connect.
SH: Right, right.
JB: So, I think that those are all of the-the reasons why, and then, uh, you know, I ended up with some amazing projects. Um, starting out as, you know, as a sole archaeology Grand Canyon with a, you know, two percent inventory. Um, uh, Glen Canyon Dam…
SH: Wow, a two percent inventory.
JB: At the time.
SH: Yeah.
JB: Yeah, we’re up to about six percent, so, you know.
SH: Excellent.
JB: I-it’s more than double.
SH: That’s, yeah.
JB: You know? Um, so we start with a relatively small amount, and it was, really, compliance-based. And my first big project was, uh, working in Glen Canyon Dam operations. Um, this was in the late ‘80’s, we’d had a series of very high water, years outta Glen Canyon Dam, there’s a lot of resources that were exposed, I mean, I was a graduate student, and I’m on the river w-uh, evaluating archaeological sites, and, one of our, uh, uh, boat operators came walking over all-while I was, um, monitoring known, uh, resources, and, um, not sure I can say this, but I’m gonna say it, he goes, I think you got a god damn city over there.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: And, I kinda looked, and I walked over to where he was, and there was a series of really deep arroyos that had been cut through the, um, the sand. And they were this huge walls that were exposed. Artifacts coming out, it turns out the-the main arroyo was a kiva.
SH: Oh my lord.
JB: That was all buried in river sands. Because, for-for years people thought that people didn’t live a-along the Colorado River, that, uh, which was kind of silly to even think that.
SH: Right.
JB: Um, it’s a river in the west. Of course they’re gonna live there. Um, but years, and years, every year the Colorado River would flood, and, h-huge flood plains, people lived on the flood plains. Just like they do n-now. Uh, sediment lain [INAUDIBLE] river buried all of them. The materials. So, everything was just buried under these huge sand dunes. And, it kind of shifted again, my whole thinking on this. And at the same…
SH: That’s a watershed moment. [LAUGH]
JB: It is. It is, exactly a watershed moments, like, okay.
SH: Yeah.
JB: So, here we have a shift. And it’s like, okay. And then, I’m a grad student, and I’m, like, I didn’t know what to do. Um, one of my-my mentors and predecessor, uh, Bob Euler at Grand Canyon. We got off this trip, and I go to Bob, I was like, you’re not gonna believe this. And, I started explaining to him, and, his first response was, oh, it’s just another stinkin’ P2 site. And it’s like, no, it’s more than that.
SH: And I should say to our listeners, P2 is pueblo two, it’s one of the…
JB: Pueblo two period. One of the most common, uh, archaeological periods in the southwest. And, as a soon to be graduate, but as a graduate student. It’s like this is the-no, it’s more than this, I’ve seen a lot of pueblo two period sites, um, this is not that. There are-the walls that I saw were the size of Volkswagens, they were huge, and this is not what anybody thinks of as Grand Canyon archaeology. So, I convinced him, and we were-got a helicopter, we did-did some helicopter work, did a helicopter, went down. And did, spent a day with him taking photographs, and he, uh, was impressed. He was surprised. He a-was su-‘cause he had been there countless times. Same place.
SH: Right.
JB: But, it was all buried. So it really was a shift in our thinking of what archaeology was at Grand Canyon, too. So, that moment, and it happened that the secretary of the interior at the time called for recl-Bureau of Reclamation to do a new EIS on dam operations, there was a lot of pressure from the environmental community, from the public to how Glen Canyon Dam operations were affecting Grand Canyon. It was a different time politically, um, to allow those things to happen as well. And, um, we went from secretary Lujan at the time, telling reclamation to do an EIS, to, the Grand Canyon protection act being passed in 1992. And, I can claim that in the purpose of the act, the words cultural resources came from me.
SH: That’s wonderful.
JB: Um, so, working with our superintendent, our natural resource manager, and, congressional staff, we’re working on the bill, uh, we are faxing back and forth, and was always gonna be about natural resources, and I-I just kept saying, but what about the cultural resource? I was a little kid, I was like, what about the cultural resources? And they-they stuck it in, and it’s in the bill. Uh, I wish I would have used different language, um, ‘cause I-there were some c-confusion at times as to what does a cultural resource mean? We as managers have a very clear understanding, but sometimes the public doesn’t, nor do the other, um, the Grand Canyon protection act really addresses how the secretary manages Glen Canyon oper-dam operations, but it also includes, um, stakeholders. The seven basin states who have interest in how water is released. Uh, power and water interest from municipalities to power producers. Um, Indian tribes, all of our tribal colleagues are part of this, so, um, the tribes see cultural resources, everything, from a tribal perspective as a cultural resource. Um, and it is.
SH: Yeah.
JB: Um, ‘cause that’s where those values come from, is from our cultures. Um, and so it gets a little confusing at times, but cultural resources are there, and we’ve then started with an archaeological inventory survey of the Colorado River corridor, that, um, sites c-that could be potentially affected by Glen Canyon Dam. Um, that’s lead to a lot of additional work over the years. Um, and also tribal engagement, the first tribal river trip we did, was in preparation for doing the archaeological inventory survey. At-at the time, I didn’t know what I was doing. I, I guessed at what would be right, what I thought would be right. To make, s-to invite everybody, I didn’t know that they had never, none of the tribal folks who had-whose ancestors lived in the canyon, never been. I-I didn’t know any of that, I just kind of like, like, it seems like a good idea, and people said, yeah, so I guess, this’ll work. And I just kept working on it.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: So, you know, when you talk about kinda career paths, and, what keeps you a place. It’s-it’s recognizing that’s like, those moments, those watershed moments where things change. And all of a sudden, there’s a new enlightenment. I mean, to be able to bring, you know, religious leaders from the pueblo Zuni into the canyon for the first time, and being with them, and knowing that they are seeing places that they only know from oral history. And they know them well enough in their minds, and that we’re there on site, is an amazing connection.
SH: Wow.
JB: And when you talk about those things that keep you, those are the things that make it worth it.
SH: Wow.
JB: And-and they continue, I mean, it’s like, you know, I know these places they describe them to me, and I know where they’re talking about, they’ve never seen ‘em. But I know where it is. And, being able to-knowing how strong those connections are, even though they themselves have been removed from place for generations. They still know it.
SH: And that’s that history. That’s not a story.
JB: And it’s that history. It’s not a story. And they know it. And, um, and it continues, I mean, their connects are getting stronger because of the work that we’ve been able to do. And I’ve-I’ve been criticized for that. You know, why is it that you think that you should ac-accept what they say? And it’s like, well why shouldn’t I?
SH: Right.
JB: And it-there’s, I-there was a s-I think it was, there have been, um, letters that we’ve gotten, um, from folks who really do-have taken us to task for this approach. And, um, it’s like, why would somebody, why would a tribe lie?
SH: Yeah.
JB: Like, what-what, because working with a federal agency is so much fun?
SH: Right. [LAUGH]
JB: There’s no red tape involved? There’s not endless meetings? You know, why would, you know? And, it’s like, what arrogance on our part to-to dismiss these histories, and-and again, because I’ve seen these connections first-hand, it’s like, you have-you over there, you have no right.
SH: No, no. Yeah.
JB: This is not your history, it’s their history. And, I’m not gonna tell them you’re wrong. You wanna tell them they’re wrong, go ahead. And then it never-they never, never goes that direction.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: But that’s the sort of thing that’s like, and I go back, and it’s like, th-okay, as an archaeologist, I never, ever thought that I was gonna be in this position. But, here I am. And I what I bring to my current position with this-is-with the superintendent is, all of this experience, and when things, you know, pop up in the Grand Canyon, things are always popping up. Can go back to what I understand of the cultures of the people, of the relationships to help, um, us manage better into the future, and it’s really about long-term protection preservation of all of the resources, because, for me, they’re all cultural resources too.
SH: Right.
JB: So. That kind of, um, so when you back to w-h-why am I still there? That’s why.
SH: So is, um, the interactions with tribes on of the biggest changes you’ve seen in cultural resource management while you’ve been there?
JB: I think that, um, certainly, the interactions that the park service has in general. The w-work with tribes, I think, has definitely changed over the years. The, um, the regional offices, the, or, you know, Washington office. They all have very prescriptive programs, well, they weren’t, uh, they didn’t start-they weren’t very robust at first, and I think we pushed the envelope on some of those.
SH: Yeah.
JB: I mean, we started doing a fee waiver for, um, local tribes back in the late ‘80’s, and it was, um, people, especially our rangers, were very nervous about that. But we came up with a-a protocol for that. Nobody-nobody got really scared afterward it was implemented. Um, and then working on consultation policies as well. And, working on NAGPRA agreements after NAGPRA was passed, I mean, one of the-one of the first parks to actually come up with a-and agreement that all of the tribes agreed to.
SH: And NAGPRA is the Native American groups. Yeah.
JB: Right, Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, sorry. Um, so when-when we established, you know, working relationships. Some of s-it comes back to relationships.
SH: Yeah.
JB: Um, ‘cause if you don’t have trust, then you can’t just talk to people. You can’t leave that on, and I think for us as resource managers, we’re the humanists in our organizations. Uh, we are the social scientists, we are those who deal with, I think the harder science, because people don’t replicate behaviors, so what we do is not easy.
SH: Right.
JB: And sometimes, you know, it’s referred to as soft science and hard science. But I think it’s more hard ‘cause social science is not replicable, and o-in the same way, you don’t get the same answers from a human twice.
SH: Right.
JB: And I think within our profession, most of the time my answer is gonna be, it depends.
SH: [LAUGH] Yes.
JB: ‘Cause it does, it’s gonna depend. Uh, in a lot of the other sciences, I mean, the-you can repeat the experiment. And, and the idea is to actually get the same result every time. I think with win-with what we do, it’s not replicable in that same way, so, it really does make a difference as to how we look at it. And, I think for many of us, getting out of our comfort zone at just looking at stuff.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: And then taking the stuff and saying, well, what does that mean for people?
SH: Right.
JB: And what does that mean for preservation? And how do we go about preserving what’s important, and making it relevant for the descendants? Um, of those populations, but also for our visitors, and, you know, certainly in the parks. Grand Canyon is one that has, you know, huge w-international visitation. S-and people are fascinated with the American west, they’re fascinated with the native, uh, story. Um, they’re fascinated to know that people are still here. I mean, one of the projects, I think, I’m proudest of is the instillation of what we call the tribal medallion at Mather Point.
SH: Oh.
JB: Uh, if you go to Grand Canyon, you go from the visitor center to Mather Point, you walk from, uh, the buildings up to the overlook, and you walk right through an area we call the medallion. And all of the tribes of the area are, um, represented. Uh, as part of the landscape.
SH: That’s wonderful.
JB: Um, and it’s-it’s really cool, because they all helped design it. And, one of the questions that I’ve gotten more than once is, how did you get them all to decide, because, folks are familiar in the-in the southwest with some of the, um, disputes amongst the tribes, uh, Hopi and, um, Navajo in particular come up as, how did you get them to decide? It’s because they all have a shared history, and I think if-if we don’t allow the divisions to bind our working relationship, they won’t either.
SH: Right.
JB: So, we, say, everyone was here. We know everyone was here. The archaeological record is, um, no so, um, divisive as to suggest that there was no overlapping of people or culture.
SH: Right.
JB: And, I look at myself, um, and this comes up in the, uh, Native American Graves Protection Repatriation Act discussions.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: Um, but, when you find human remains, who-who claims them? At Grand Canyon, all of these people lived here for all of these years. And, traditionally, archaeologists would say, oh, well, they had puebloan pottery with them therefore they must be puebloan. Well, I think about myself, and if I was to be buried with my favorite things, I have a, um, I’m wearing right now some Hopi jewelry.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: Um, my earrings are Hawaiian. Okay, there’s two things, I have lots of Navajo rugs, I have lots of Hopi pottery. I have, um, greenstone from New Zealand. So, if you were to bury with all of my favorite things, and presume that, um, the stuff I’m buried with identifies who I was culturally, i-where you-where would I end up?
SH: Right.
JB: And then if you were to do my DNA, you’d find out that, uh, my ancestors are from Lithuania. So, i-am I Lithuanian? Is that where you would put me? It’s like, no, I’d say, how do you identify yourself, and I think, it’s one of the traps that we fall into a-as archaeologists, is presuming that material culture, um, the-the things equal who the person was, and how they identified themselves. And I think that that’s a real challenge for us moving forward. And I think that’s part of the dialogues that we have with, um, native peoples today, is to understand, I mean, I think all of us have worked with, um, folks out of, uh, in reservation communities who, you know, uh, might be an apache married to a Hopi, who’s living in Supai. I mean, the boundaries are not nearly as clear and I think, uh, archaeology in general tried to put things in very discreet boxes. And people don’t work that way. And I think we, today, are realizing that, I think that’s-that’s one of the-the challenges. Um, but it’s also one of the opportunities.
SH: Yeah, yeah.
JB: So.
SH: Well, so speaking of opportunities, um, we also, uh, interviewed Lloyd Masayumptewa, superintendent of Hubbel Trading Post, and, um, that was for an interview back in November. And, we asked him two questions that I’d like your perspective on, um, so the National Park Service is always working to incorporate Native American perspectives, and to interpretation. Um, but there is room for improvement, so, how can we do a better job, what are the opportunities out there? Of representing ancestral and living Native American people?
JB: I love that question. Because that’s-I think what we’re trying to focus on.
SH: Yeah,
JB: Um, my whole career has been at kind of pushing the envelope and trying to push the boundaries of getting away from sort of the traditional, um, approach of talking about somebody else’s history. And, this is really, it’s gonna be about first voice.
SH: Right.
JB: How do we bring first voice into this? And, um, one of the projects we have ongoing right now, is, that entire, um, reboot of our desert view area. So the desert view area of the na-of Grand Canyon is the, um, eastern boundary of the south rim. Uh, the d-desert view watchtower itself is a national historic landmark. Um, it was constructed by Santa Fe railroad and Fred Harvey in 1932, 1933. Uh, the architective record is Mary Elizabeth Jane Colter. It’s an NGL, um, because of her architectural prowess. Um…
SH: Which is a National Historic Landmark, the NHL.
JB: Yeah, Natural Historic La-Landmark.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: Um, it’s also, um, [LAUGH] there’s also a second NHL on the same landscape for the 1956 mid-air plane crash.
SH: Oh.
JB: That happened over Grand Canyon.
SH: [OVERLAP] that.
JB: So it’s multiple levels of history.
SH: Yeah.
JB: So you’ve got indigenous history, native history. You’ve, um, you know, 10,000, 12,000 years ago to the present. It’s an amazing view, looking out, into the Col-Little Colorado River and Marble Canyon area of the park. You’re looking to the East, to Navajo Nation and Hopi. Um, you’re looking to the North and West towards, um, southern Paiute areas. You’re looking to the south, to the San Francisco Peaks. So it’s got this amazing vista and landscape that are all significant places for native people. We have a 1932, um, 33, uh, uh, historic building sitting there. With a few outbuildings. Um, you’ve got the National Historic Landmark plaque for the mid-air crash site. It’s also right there. And, it’s an opportunity to start re-shaping desert view as a cultural heritage area for the native people. And, what we’ve been working on, and, um, will continue to do this, the-it means, so there’s multiple components, and I think this is what’s really interesting about this project. Every project I do has multiple components, none of ‘em are gonna be easy.
SH: Anthropology’s pretty messy. Yeah.
JB: It is very m-it’s a messy, messy discipline. And it-and I think it’s because we are all trained more as humanists, that we to think. Um, and actually, deduce things and actually be critical thinkers.
SH: Right.
JB: That allows us to kind of get more engaged than just lookin’ at stuff.
SH: Mm.
JB: Um, so, we have formed an intertribal advisory committee. Um, that work, is working with us on this. They’re not necessarily government to government representatives.
SH: Excellent.
JB: Um, they are com-more community based. They-some may be on council, some may not, there’s-they’re a little bit fluid. And we have a tribal program lead who has coordinated all of-all of this, a woman named Janet Cullen who’s been with the park for, I think about eight years now. Um, and, th-the she has put together this group that’s working, uh, with us on this project. Um, to really change how we do Desert View. The watchtower had been part of the, uh, Xanterra contract, it was removed from the contract, uh, two years ago.
SH: Okay.
JB: Two and a half years ago. So, it’s Park Service managed now. Um, and we are in the redesign, to really allow that to be first voice, we have a huge cultural demonstration program that is ongoing that, um, we got grant money, um, and-and that’s been a huge par-piece of that too, is how do we fund this? When you for the park service, we’re used to using coupons for most things.
SH: Right, right.
JB: Um, we don’t have a lot of money, so-
SH: You mentioned the SCC earlier, the Servicewide Comprehensive Call, which is essentially us writing grants for project money from the park service.
JB: From ourselves.
SH: From ourselves, yeah.
JB: But there’s not that much of it.
SH: No.
JB: And it’s-it’s really competitive. And, so we have a project at Desert View, where we got, uh, halfway into our grant from American Express to start doing the conservation work, so there’s different pieces, so. You’ve got historic preservation that’s happening within the tower itself. At the same time as you’re looking at changing contemporary uses. And actually setting it up for the future.
SH: And you, um, uh, you did a CESU project for that, right? With Doug Porter and Angelyne Bass?
JB: W-we did.
SH: We interviewed them earlier in the series as well.
JB: So, they were the recipient, they got a lot of the grant money.
SH: Yeah.
JB: Was-went to that agreement for them to do the work.
SH: Excellent, excellent.
JB: Um, and, that work has been done, um, and then the other part of those funds went, um, the st-start the cultural demonstration program.
SH: Right.
JB: Um, the Grand Canyon Association, which is our cooperating association, um, is, um, raising money, it’s one of their capital campaign project, uh, areas. Um, because what we wanna do is really transform that place. And we talk about transformation.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: It’s like, we want-when visitors go to desert view, we want it to be different than a national-than the typical National Park Service, somebody green and gray telling you about somebody else’s history. The idea for Desert View is-it really is gonna be about tribal people talking about tribal history. And not just the past, but present and future.
SH: That’s great.
JB: And using Desert View as a catalyst for that first voice, and to get our visitors out to Indian country.
SH: Yeah.
JB: How do we-how do we engage folks, six million people a year. Even if a small percentage went to Indian country, it would a huge boon to their local economies as well.
SH: Certainly.
JB: But we have to set it up with the tribal communities to make sure that they’re ready for it too.
SH: Right, right.
JB: Um, in 2016, there was an act called the Native Act, that was passed, which is about tribal tourism in Indian country. And, w-we are kind of poised to be, I think, one of the first areas that can really use the-the legal backing of that act, um, with the help of the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
SH: That’s great.
JB: To help the tribal communities figure out better ways for them to accept visitors too. So, it’s gonna be done in concert. So, if we look at Desert View is that, out of that catalyst, and have that first person interpretation happening here, having it really be more of a-a tribal approach with the Park Service’s sort of, um, structure. But, those voices, I think that that’s gonna start changing sort of the dialogue in a lot of other places.
SH: Yeah.
JB: So, that-that’s a biggie. Um…
SH: That’s great, and I feel like you actually answered the-the second question as well, um, that we asked Lloyd, which was, that Native American governments and people have, and federal archaeologists, um, have often been at odds over issues regarding the treatment of ancestral places, human remains, and objects. Um, but there’s also examples of cooperation, and collaboration, um, and can you think of any examples or projects that you’ve been involved in that had positive and mutually beneficial results? Um, that’s…
JB: I think Desert View is-is an ongoing one.
SH: Yeah.
JB: I mean, even the tribal medallion, I mean, nobody thought that we could get everybody to agree to it. And, I mean, I’ve got, um, you know, uh, pencil drawings f-that from, uh, meetings that we were in, we were talking about another project that we did, which was called grand archaeology where all good tribes actually helped us interpret all of the materials from Colorado River sites, so that we could get a better understanding of what all of this meant. These folks’ ancestors, um, help us understand what these things are, and it was great.
SH: Yeah.
JB: But, you know, each one of the, you know, Navajo suggested doing this, Hopi suggesting, and I’ve got these pencil drawings, and those went to the artist, and the artist then created what became the medallion, we went through a lot of iterations with the tribes, and I think it was probably version 12 where somebody realized we’d spelled Hualapai wrong.
SH: [LAUGH] Yeah.
JB: Uh, whoops. Um, but, you know, so, um, but, I mean, that was a really great collaborative effort.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: Um, and, you know, everybody was on board with that. Um, so, you know, we’ve worked on that, we’ve worked on the grand archaeology, Desert View, obviously, we have Heritage Days are ongoing, um, that we do the cultural demonstrations. It started, we were hoping that we’d get enough, um, artists who wanted to. Now there’s waiting lists.
SH: Wow.
JB: And, um, so, all of those things. You know, and just continues to be really positive opportunity. Um, the Native Land Corps, we’ve had them up in the park, and we’re gonna continue workin’ on native youth programs like, how do we start getting the next generation of native youth, and youth from the area interested in actually working for the park, working in the park. Um, in-in ways that are meaningful. And, so, i-we have an opportunity now to kind of set, um, a new foundation for this next generation and, we’re gonna look at every opportunity we can and do it.
SH: Nice. Oh, that’s wonderful.
JB: Yeah.
SH: Um, so, tribal perspectives often don’t see a difference between natural and cultural resources. Um, and I have often been drawn to the intersection of natural and cultural resources. Um, and, you, as a resource manager, are not just an archaeologist. Um, you, in 2011 won the NPS natural resource management award for three projects, including, the supporting the development of a 10 year protocol for high flow releases from Glen Canyon, which we talked about a little bit earlier. Which, uh, removed non-native fish within the Colorado River within an area sacred to traditionally associated Indian tribes. And the withdraw of over a million acres of public land surrounding the park from uranium mining. Um, so, how does your background as an archaeologist influence your management priorities and the goals for the park?
JB: So, i-you know, as an archaeologist, I mean, one of the things i-is that we’re trained to think.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: And, archaeology is part of anthropology and it really is that larger discipline of people and people can’t be divorced from the land, and I think that as we, um, kind of evolved within our own disciplines, we realize those connections. I mean, working on the projects I’ve worked on, it-and I do think that I might be the only, uh, 193 series archaeologist to ever receive the director’s natural resource award. Um, it-and-no-I ended up working on it, i-in a lot of ways it’s because, um, because of my academic training, I could see the bigger picture. That it-there was the archaeology and the piece on the land that we could connect with tribal people, um, but then we have to connect it with what’s going on within the-the relevance, again, of, um, where our nation is politically, I mean, uranium mining is a, no pun here, but hot topic for some people.
SH: [LAUGH] Yeah.
JB: Um, and it certainly is for us, I mean, i-and we had to start thinking about future generations as well as like, what is the legacy of land management we’re gonna be leaving, so. Um, when I think about how I ended up doing, and being involved, and sometimes I don’t think I ever thought, well, I never did think I was gonna go that direction in terms of my work. And I didn’t say no.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: And, I could-I could see how things could connect in a way that, I think many of my more traditional natural resource colleagues don’t think about the human side, the people side, the way we think about the natural side.
SH: Right.
JB: People use natural resources. So I think for us, it’s a-it’s normal…
SH: Right, right.
JB: …to kind of think about that. When e-even recording archaeological sites on all of our archaeological forms, you’re always looking at, you know, water sources. Plant communities. You know, w-we’re thinking about w-how were people living here, what were they eating? What were they getting a-all of those things, so we’re always thinking more in that landscape, it’s like, what’s around us?
SH: Right.
JB: Where I think a lot of our natural resource colleagues are focused very much on the fish, or, the squirrel, or the-you know, whatever it might be.
SH: Right.
JB: But they don’t necessarily see how that’s the-they’re-they’re not looking necessarily as an-as an ecosystem, and I think that despite the fact that we don’t necessarily u-use those terms in anthropology a lot, that’s what we do all the time.
SH: Right, right.
JB: And so I think that when I look at the projects that I-that I was working on, and, um, and I’m pretty proud of-of actually having a hand in these.
SH: Yeah.
JB: Um, protection, you know, withdrawal of, you know, a million acres of land around Grand Canyon from new mineral entry.
SH: That’s huge.
JB: Um, it’s huge, uh, it’s, there is an assault on that right now. Um, we may lose those protections, but it was huge, and it’s huge through the tribal communities who have been plagued with the, um, the fallout from the down-winders, but also just the un-reclaimed mines all over Indian country. Just around Cameron alone, there’s hundreds of un-reclaimed, um, mining areas from uranium.
SH: Wow.
JB: From the big buildup years from the ‘50’s. So, you know.
SH: And I should say for our, uh, listeners, down-winders are people who, um, were affected, who were down-wind of uranium, uh, production, and-and were affected by the, um, f-radicals, and…
JB: It-yeah, it’s-it’s and also from some of the tests from the nuclear testing.
SH: Right, right.
JB: Um, they were living down-wind of, uh, where they tested the atomic bombs.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: And, they’ve suffered immense health issues over the years.
SH: Right.
JB: Um, in many of the tribal communities. And then-th-are part of that. And then, just the-the legacy of mining, especially in Navajo Nation lands, um, there’s still hundreds of superfund sites out there that need to be cleaned up, so.
SH: Yeah.
JB: You know, recognizing that what we do today has a-an effect on people and these communities. I-is really important, I think that we as anthropologists are in a really good s-space to be able to connect those things together. Um, in a way, and-and be f-pretty articulate with it too, and, and, you know, I’m always challenged with, it’s just your opinion.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: It’s like, well, we-we may actually have a way to have more than just an opinion, we actually might be able to bring some academic science to it.
SH: Right?
JB: And it doesn’t mean it’s just numbers. There’s a lot of tools that anthropologists can use, you know, that we as archaeologists have had, I mean, uh, many of us had four field trainings, and I did as well.
SH: Yeah, yeah.
JB: Um, but to use those tools, and I think that’s one of the-the benefits, and, you know, the blessings that we have is being, um, from a discipline that realizes that-that there’s more to it.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: And teaches us really, to think.
SH: That’s great. I agree.
JB: Yeah.
SH: Um, so this episode is air-airing during, uh, both Arizona’s March Archaeological and Heritage Awareness month, as well as National Women’s History Month. Um, has being a woman influenced you as an archaeologist, or as a park manager?
JB: I don’t think I could be doing what I’m doing if I wasn’t a woman. I think that, um, the acceptance I had with our tribal colleagues, a lot of it was, um, because I was female.
SH: Interesting.
JB: Like, um, and I’m-I was challenged by some of my male colleagues, um, especially when it came to like, sacred sites and thing like that, and you can’t go there because you’re a woman, and it’s like, you know what? I don’t think you can go there either ‘cause you’re white. I don’t think it has to do with being, you know, male or female. If you’re not part of a tribal community, um, it doesn’t matter. And because I was not challing-challenging any of them, you know, w-my male colleagues, and-and the tribes. You know, most tribal societies are matrilineal, matrilocal, so, they’re kinda used to having women in charge.
SH: Right.
JB: And I think that might be why some of it works so well, because, they were used to being bossed around by women, and then I fit that category.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: You know, and I also listened.
SH: Yeah.
JB: And, I wasn’t trying to tell ‘em what to do. Um, and it-it-it evolved over the years and, um, I think that it’s affected, I mean, it-I don’t think I could have done what I-I’d done, had I not been a woman.
SH: Wow. Um, were there any historical female archaeologists who inspired you?
JB: Yeah, I-I was thinkin’ about, um, some-some of sort of my mentors, and-and I think it was more that they were my colleagues. That really, I mean, the woman that I started working with, um, at Grand Canyon is a woman named Trinkle Jones who, uh, was a Park Service archaeologist, and, she brought me in, I’d never-I’ve been to one National Park my entire life, I had no idea what it was that she was even asking me to do. We met in graduate school, um, we were the only two brave enough to take a class at ASU on cultural resource manager-management where the, um, the professor had a history of failing all the students.
SH: Okay.
JB: Um, well, if you didn’t get an A or a B you failed the class, I mean, it-C in grad school doesn’t count. So, we were the only two in this class, so it ended up being a seminar.
SH: Wow.
JB: Um, I was new to the southwest, I had no idea. And so Twinkle and I, formed a bond, we interned in the state historic preservation office together. Um, and we’ve been friends ever since. We’re still friends.
SH: That’s wonderful. Yeah.
JB: And, you know, so I look at that, and, um, uh, Twinkle, and there were-and there were other-there was actually quite a few females in, uh, my graduate program. Uh, one went on to be the Arizona SHIPO. I mean, uh, the-i-you know, there were number of-of women who had worked within the field, um, when I started coming outta graduate school who were doing some amazing things. And it wasn’t so much that there was a lot of women archaeologists in the field prior to my going there, I mean, there was one, uh, nah, there were two f-females at ASU, one of ‘em was having her 90th birthday this coming year.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: Um, who actua-who really, um, encouraging to all of this.
SH: That’s great.
JB: And, you know, I thought about it, and it’s like, everyone of w-I think we were all kind of moving together, and at just different levels of where were, so I think a lot of it came from the encouragement of my peers and my colleagues. Um, and a couple professors along the way. Um, and I-and I think my family as well who-my father never said I couldn’t do anything.
SH: Right.
JB: They were a little concerned about my choice of careers, they didn’t quite understand what that was f-coming from western New York, and, uh, the great outdoors was not what the great outdoors is here. And then had no idea why I wanted to be an archaeologist, and what that meant. Um, and on the flip side, um, he’s like, honey, if-if this something that you’re passionate about, great, go for it.
SH: That’s great, yeah.
JB: Um, and I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time, and I think many of my tribal colleagues have reminded me that I was the right person at the right time.
SH: Mm-hm.
JB: And it just, it just is the way that those things happen as the people connect, I mean, my colleague at Hopi, who recently retired, uh, Leigh Kuwanwisiwma. He and I started about the same time. And, uh, he likes to joke that, uh, we started in diapers and now we’re shoppin’ for depends.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: And I’ve reminded him that he may be shopping for them, but I am not.
SH: That’s great. Yeah.
JB: Um, but he retired at the end of December. And, it was, we were both the right people at the right time to allow these things to happen, and to make those connections of, I think so much of it is being open to the possibilities of looking for those opportunities.
SH: Right, you mentioned earlier that the relationships are so important, and that’s…
JB: It’s all about relationship.
SH: Yeah.
JB: If you don’t have that, you can’t have any successes in this program.
SH: Um, so we have just a couple minutes left, and, um, I guess I, um, I hear that you also participate in reenactments from time to time? At least, of Bert Loper’s demise as 24 and a half mile rapid, can you tell us more about that?
JB: I’m not sure how you heard about that.
SH: There’s a video on YouTube, um, of a, um, of a speech you gave about the, um, the project to preserve river running boats and the Grand Canyon, and the introduction, um, there a-there’s a mention.
JB: Yeah, so, over my, uh, my career, I’ve had, uh, the opportunity to spend a lot of time on the Colorado River, and one of the projects, uh, that I spent a number of years on, most projects take me like, 10 years to get anybody interested in and to-to do, I’m sort of used to having to wait. Um, but that Colorado River history is one that I got pretty engaged in, and including the preservation of the historic boats that we had in our collection. And, um, um, some of my early trips, um, um, there was a fella who was working as a river guide, uh, who’s also a-a-a historian. And, um, on our very first trip together with the Arizona Archaeological and Historical society trip, um, we decided to do a reenactment of Bert Loper having his heart attack in 24 and a half mile. And he would play Bert Loper, and all of a sudden, he would, uh, reenact having a heart attack, and, um, getting slumped over his oars, and I would be in standing, or, sitting in front of him saying, look to your oars, Bert.
SH: [LAUGH]
JB: And then, look behind, and, um, he would be slumped over, and then the next thing, we would crash and burn, and, um, Bert’s body wasn’t s-found for another 27 years, and, uh, Wayne, um, did live.
SH: Awesome. [LAUGH] Good, good.
JB: Um, but the remains of the bat, um, that Bert’s boards we call it is at, uh, uh, downstream, um, of 24 and a half mile kind of buried in the sand, so.
SH: They’re buried in the sand, they weren’t part of the boat, uh, preservation project.
JB: No, there wasn’t enough, no, and actually, it was an area of the canyon, this had happened in 1949, the, when Bert passed away and his-his, uh, remains weren’t found ‘till ’69, but…
SH: Oh.
JB: …um, that part of the canyon actually had Marble Canyon Dam been built, that would have been underwater.
SH: Oh, wow.
JB: I mean, there’s so many layers of history, um…
SH: Yeah.
JB: …a bit, about this, but yeah, so…
SH: Yeah.
JB: …the re-the remains are-are kind of, they’re-they’re, withered, and, they’re, um, there’s not much too it, there’s a little plaque there now, but anyways, so, so Richard and I would periodically recreate, uh, Loper’s demise.
SH: That’s awesome.
JB: Yeah.
SH: Um, well, so, mentioning the boats, you were instrumental in that project to preserve river running boats, um, and-and boats are a pretty big artifact, do you, um, have a favorite example, um, big or small, of how artifacts play a part in telling the canyon story?
JB: You know, the-the art, it, I mean, the place itself is an artifact in a way, I mean, i-you-you look at different levels of them, and, um, uh, the historic river boats, I mean, each one of them tells its own story, and it-each-each artifact tells its own story.
SH: Yeah.
JB: And, yeah, there are some that are, that one of the boats was called the Julius Stone, it is such an elegant water craft. You know, you just-you just wanna sit with it, because it’s so pretty.
SH: Yeah.
JB: Um, you know, and certainly are split twig figurines tell a-a story of archaic hunters. And some of the-the-the large, um, vessel pots we have, and the pendants, I mean, just the-the art-artistry of the past is just, so amazing, and, um…
SH: Yes.
JB: …each, each one of those pieces tells its own story, so I don’t think I have a favorite, although I really do like going to sit with the Julius Stone boat, because it’s just, the elegance of it. And, the conservation work that was done by, uh, Western Archaeological Center, um, Brynn Bender was our conservator. They did an astound job, and, um, it’s-it’s a rich history, on so many different levels. From, um, the, uh, earliest inhabitant to Grand Canyon, um, until sort of the most recent, uh, historic artifacts, I mean, each and ever-piece-each and every building, it’s all part of the much larger landscape of-of the human history of i-of Grand Canyon, and why we care.
SH: Yeah. Well, Jan, thank you so much for joining me today, I appreciate it, this has been wonderful.
JB: I’ve enjoyed it too, thank you.
MG: One of the things I really liked about your interview with Jan, uh, was the way that she was able to, um, really kind of synthesize and articulate, um, the efforts of Grand Canyon, uh, in doing tribal consultation. And the way that they’ve been able to use the information that get from those consultations, to understand and manage their resources. That’s something that all National Parks are engaged in all the time, but it’s also something that we struggle with. Um, how do we use that information and-and how do we use it in-in the right ways?
SH: Yeah, definitely. Um, talking with you about this has made me think about, um, an article by T.J. Ferguson, and Chip Colwell. Where they talk about the collaborative continuum. And that, you know, on one side you have true collaboration where, um, all sides are bringing something to the table, and-and getting something from the process. And on the other side, where, you know, you have no collaboration at all, um, not even information sharing. And I feel oftentimes, that in the-the park service, and working for the federal government, we have mandates that we are legally required to fulfill, and, um, and a little bit of time to do all of that, and, so it’s very easy to get pulled into the middle of that continuum where, um, where you’re doing consultation, you’re sending out letters, but, um, but it-that’s really just information sharing, that’s not collaboration. And, um, and Jan’s, you know, experience and-and background of the grand canyon, you know, really, um, inspires us to, um, to really keep pushing for the collaboration side of that continuum.
MG: Absolutely.
SH: Well folks, that’s it for the inaugural season of the National Park Service Southwest Archaeology Podcast. We’ll be busy over the summer recording interviews so that we can bring you behind the scenes of archaeology and preservation in the southwest. We hope you’ll join us in the fall for season two.
SH: The National Parks Service Southwest Archaeology Podcast is a production of the Southern Arizona Office of the National Park Service. Our artwork was designed by Laura Varon-Burkhart, Justin Mossman composed our music. We look forward to hearing from you. Matt and I will be with you again next month.
Description
To celebrate both Women's History Month and Arizona Archaeology and Heritage Awareness Month our March interview is with Jan Balsom, archeologist by trade, and Senior Adviser to the Superintendent at Grand Canyon National Park. Listen along as Jan shares her career experiences and helps Sharlot and Matt realize whatever work they face, Jan's been there!
**Links in this episode** Grand Canyon National Park Archeology: https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/historyculture/arch.htm
Duration
56 minutes, 59 seconds
Credit
NPS - Southern Arizona Office
Date Created
03/29/2018
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