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Oral History Project - Harvey Mary 1984 Part 1
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These interviews are presented here in their original form, unmodified, in an effort to preserve and share the history of our park and its surrounding area. The memories, comments, and viewpoints shared by interviewees in the materials of the New River Gorge Oral History Project and related documents do not represent the viewpoints of the National Park Service.
Interview NRGNPP 053
TAPE 53 A File # NRGNPP 053-T
Mary Harvey
Interviewer: Joe Kanopsic
National Park Service
February 8, 1984
JK: This is Joe Kanopsic and I am at the home of Mary Harvey' s daughter in Parma, Ohio doing a historic interview on the town of Beury, Thurmond, New River Gorge. Mrs. Harvey, could you give us your name, your date of birth and spell your name for us.
MH: Right. My name is Mary Magdeline Harvey. I should have put King Harvey and I live in Cleveland. My birth date is March 27, 1923. My husband is not alive at this time but I do have seven living children.
JK: Do any of them live in the New River Gorge area?
MH: No, none live there, they all live around close to where I am. But some of us go back every year, especially one son.
JK: Where were you born at?
MH: I was born at Thurmond.
JK: At Thurmond?
MH: I was born at Thurmond in the house that sat back behind the McGuffin house as it is known today. And I've lived there for sometime. Let's see, we moved to Claramont I started to school at Thurmond in the old school, the one that burned in 1927. I started when I was four years old. Then we moved to Claramont and was only there a short while and then we moved to McDonald. which was known at that time as Little England, the street we lived on. We were there only a short time and then we moved to Beury. We lived in the Beury Mansion for five years.
JK: Five years in Beury Mansion?
MH: Uh huh.
JK: Could you give me your parents names?
MH: Yes, my father's name, he had three names instead of two. His name was Robert Edward Lee King. Needless to say he was named after Robert E. Lee. His birth place was Pulaski, Virginia. My mother's name was, believe it or not, her father wanted a son, and her name was Phillip Elija Duffy. Everyone called her Phyllis because she was embarrassed as she grew older to know that was her name. And she was from around Summers County. She was born in Summers County. She was one of seven children born to Isabelle Kale Duffy who had been married twice. Her first husband was Roup, the second husband was Phillip Gordon Duffy. She worked in Hinton Hospital for quite some time and my grandfather died when I was quite young. I think about two or two and aha If. I can remember him a little because he carried jaw breakers in his pocket. This was my mother's father. My father's parents I don't remember seeing his father, but his mother died in child birth long before he married my mother. So I didn't know too much about his parents although he had several brothers. One of them was Albert, he made the Army a career, and when he did finally get out of the Army, he married a younger woman and they had two children. He has expired too. My father had relatives in Missouri and Kansas City and there are still some Kings there.
JK: So your parents are pretty much the only ones that moved to Fayette County?
MH: Yes, of my father's people. My father was a school teacher. In fact he was quite a number of things. He had had very good schooling in Virginia and he was a lawyer, he passed his bar exams. He was a lawyer, he was a school teacher he was a minister, uh, jack of all trades just .about and he wound up of course as a car inspector on the railroad.
JK: Which school did he teach at?
MH: Well he taught in Summers County. Actually I didn't know too much about the school, but the main thing was he did teach my mother. She was very young, he was ten years older than her and he taught her to read and to write. She was one of his pupils. And then she came to be his wife.
JK: So, that is interesting. We talked about the occupation your Dad followed, did your mother work at all, or did she always…
MH: No she never worked, she married and had eight children. The oldest one was burned to death and she was standing too near an open fire with her little cotton night gown on and my mother had gone for a bucket of water and she heard her scream. I think that she only lived just a short while. All the rest of her children lived except at the present time my oldest brother, Paul, Paul King who lived at the time of death in Kentucky. No I'm sorry, he lived… yes I'm trying to think of the name of the place. It was close to Biggs. He left a wife and three daughters. My oldest sister, Lucille Laury lives in Asheville, North Carolina. She has one son and her husband is deceased. I have a brother Phillip who lives in Columbus, Georgia. He is an Army retiree. He was in the Army as his life—time job. He married, I'm not sure of her national— lit y, but her name is Yar Miller, but I 'm not sure what her last name is. Then I have a younger brother Bobby, Robert King who is on the police force in Charleston, West Virginia. I have a sister in East Lake, Ohio that is Helen. Helen Macklewing.
JK: So you are all pretty well spread out?
MH: Did I catch everybody then, did I get all seven?
JK: They are all pretty well spread out and live other places in Fayette County?
MH: Yes.
JK: Okay. Now we can get into the interesting parts of the interview. This is a very broad and open question, what are your earliest childhood memories?
MH: Well, my very earliest memories of childhood was the burning of the DunGlen Hotel. That was one of them. And our neighbor Ralph Cart, a young boy, got his leg cut off by a train. And then the most distinct memory was me getting on my knees at the window and watching the snowflakes fall between me and the mountain. I could see and think of how beautiful it was and I didn't care my feet were frozen almost off or my hands, because the houses weren't too warm at that time with open grate fire.
JK: You were mentioning the DunGlen Hotel, can you tell us a little more about that? Maybe tell us when and…
MH: Yes, it just came to me. I have a beautiful picture of it. It won third prize at May Company, here in Parma, at their restored old pictures, you know and it was beautiful in its day. I don't remember anyone ever taking me there. I did go when I was quite young to Eastern Star with my mother so that I could talk to a little boy who also had to go, his mother had no one to leave him with. So they put us in a room and we played and of course we got refreshments but the DunGlen Hotel was a very large structure and my oldest sister I know said it was very exciting and all the young women at Thurmond at one time or other went over just to see for themselves. I think they had dances and a lot of things, and a lot of excitement going on.
JK: Yes, Dun Glen was quite a place. How about the night it burned?
MH: The night it burned my mother had gone to Eastern Star and my father was at home with us children. I don't remember, of course I don't think that I would remember how he knew that it was on fire, but he did finally and he took me with him. And we stood at the side of the old Cart house which is called the McGuffin house now and watched it burn. My father was very upset because my mother was in the old Chapter Building which wasn't very far away from the DunGlen Hotel. It was located a little higher on the hill and of course maybe because it was a brick structure it didn't catch fire, but I did feel the flames on my face and I had to keep turning my head because my cheek got too warm. And I was crying because I really didn't know what fires did to people, but I knew my mother was there and I was afraid for her.
JK: You said you were about three years old?
MH: Right, I was approximately three years old. Because we were all about three years apart, the seven living children. And I happened to be the baby at that time and my brother Phillip came along a little Slater.
JK: Can you have any ideas, what month or day it burned?
MH: No, I wish I did. I am sure my oldest sister has that information which I could get, you know.
JK: Can you remember the season? Was it Spring, Summer, Fall or Winter?
MH: It was warmer weather, I feel it was warmer, not in the heat of summer, but it was either maybe in the Spring or Autumn. I also had an Aunt, Sallie Peyton, who lived at Mount Hope for years. And I think everybody knew Aunt Sally.
JK: Aunt Sally?
MH: Uh huh. She was a very devout Christian. She would go into any place to talk to people about their souls and to me that is remarkable. Even now that religion seems to be on the upgrade with especially younger people, I have yet to see anyone as full of vigor and fire and determination as my Aunt Sally. She was my mother's half—sister. At the present time I know her children are all alive, Harry is a minister in Roanoke, Virginia, Inez and Ruth and Leslie are all at Oak. Leslie and Ruth are at the Nursing Home at Oak Hill and then my Cousin Inez lives at Minton and Jed die the youngest one, he is in another state I am not quite sure of where he is. But he is also a minister.
JK: What was Aunt Sally's last name again?
MH: Peyton. She was very remarkable. My first rememberance of her was her long dresses. She wore her dresses down to her ankles. And she wore long sleeves and I use to wonder why she did that. But I never ask. I just wondered why she did it all her life. Of course it was her belief. But when I was small, I just wondered and that was it and let it go at that. She always brought food. She would bring my mother material maybe or a dress or aprons or something. When she came we all had good things, that's goodies.
JK: She was someone you all looked forward to seeing.
MH: Oh yes.
JK: What was your first job?
MH: Well my first job, I never had but one job. I babysat for quite a few people, but my first job was to come up during the day and clean the house for a lady who was ill. She had a blood clot and her name was Scruggs. Right at the moment her first name illudes me, but she had one boy, Billie, a little boy. I went up there and worked for her and I was sixteen and I think I made two dollars a week which was really a lot at that time.
JK: This was in Thurmond?
MH: Yes that was in Thurmond. And then I was married quite young, I was seventeen and had my first baby when I was eighteen, the second when I was nineteen and then my husband was drafted into the Army. And he was overseas he fought overseas. He took his training in Texas and he was in Belgium, Holland, and he did get to Paris, France quite a few times and he sent home my two daughters, Linda and Janie, he sent them a doll from Paris. Those dolls are long gone and needless to say because there was too many other ones coming along after them you know. And he did send me some material from Paris. And he brought back a bayonet which had been taken off a dead German. And which my son Steve has right now. It s not the ordinary bayonet, I wish you could see it, it is real nice.
JK: Were you living in Thurmond at the time he was drafted?
MH: Yes. I was living at Thurmond at that time. And he was drafted in the Army, I am trying to think the exact time he went in, October I believe. Well I was married in 40 let's see Linda in '41, Janie in '42, this was in '43. Janie was a year old, it must have been the Autumn of '42, no the Autumn of '43 that he was drafted.
JK: I recall there was a restaurant In Thurmond about that time.
MH: Yes, there was. Mrs. McClure had a restaurant and she was very good to serve free meals to all the servicemen that came. And she was really a unique person too. She had a helping hand to anyone that needed it.
JK: She sounds like a very interesting lady.
MH: Yes, she was.
JK: Could you tell me a little about the restaurant?
MH: Well, she served really good food, not that I ate any of it but I know she did from what other people said. And then, she on the weekends. I believe, and it may have been during the week, but of course me being a married woman, I wasn't there all the time but she did have dances in the restaurant. And it was a very nice place for the young people to gather.
JK: What memories do you recall on the New River, itself?
MH: You mean my first memories of it?
JK: First memories.
MH: Okay, my first memories of the river were of being on a ferry, yes, I was on a ferry and I was very young. I don't remember where it was, or why we went across it. All I know was I was scared to death. I really was scared. And then one of the outstanding memories of the river was the year before, let's see, it was when the river raised and it washed over the bridge and I walked across it with my husband and my sister—in—law. It was scary, it was horribly scary and I wanted to go back but one was in front and one behind me and I couldn't turn. We walked on that little thing close to the middle that you can step up on. Other than that the river was always something mysterious and something beautiful to me. At night the moon would shine on the water and it made really beautiful memories.
JK: Did you ever have a chance to go swimming very much in it?
MH: No, I was too afraid of water to swim. So I never did learn. I would go watch. I left out something. I remember when one of Mrs. McClure's daughters drown. And then the talk about her big hat floated on the water. And to me that was really sad. But I don't know exactly when that was. I only know that I was small.
JK: Were there many drownings on the river?
MH: Well, not a real lot, but too many. There was three men that turned over in a boat. This was the year before I was married. and they got one out right away, but one was there for about three days and we saw the three men bringing them up on a flat car over on the South side of the river. I took one look and got sick, because he was so swollen and one of my friends said there was a fish caught in his ear. So that done me for that. Then my older daughters went to school with a girl and she drown and Janie is upstairs and I can't tell you her name because I can't remember. She drown up at Stone Cliff.
JK: Stone Cliff?
MH: Uh huh.
JK: Can you tell me a little about some of the people that lived in the town that you lived in, the different towns while you were there? Let 's start with Thurmond.
MH: Okay, well we lived beside a family that to me was one of the nicest families I 've ever seen. That was Mr. and Mrs. Cart. They had several sons and one daughter. One who is Eva Woods she lives in Beckley at the present time. And Ralph he was the youngest, he was the age of my brother Paul. And I'll never forget the night that we were all in bed and I was sleeping in a baby bed and I wasn't the baby, but I was sleeping in it for lack of more room. And Mrs. Cart came below our house on the road and she was crying and she was calling for my mother to come out. She said that Ralph had his leg cut off. And I sat up and I thought, “Oh, how awful to just have one leg”, and I didn't know what that really involved or entailed, but 1 stayed awake. My mother went to the Cart house and was over there most of the night. Mrs. Cart took it very, very hard. Then when they brought Ralph home from the hospital, my sister Helen and I went over to see him and he sat there just as comfortable as could be and could even joke about it. And he just had the one leg. I thought it was really remarkable that he could sit and talk like that with just the one leg. But as I said this family was a very nice family and Bob always helped his mother so much. She had a few boarders at the time for a few years and Bob helped his mother so much and I thought that was extra ordinary. You know for a young man to do the things that he did for his mother.
JK: Where was Ralph in the hospital at?
MH: That I don't know unless… see this part is sort of a blank spot. I don't know if there was a hospital at Oak Hill at that time or not, or whether he had to go to Beckley. But I do know that it was the worst thing that had happened to Thurmond for a long time because everyone was talking about it.
JK: How did he lose his leg?
MH: I think he trying to go through the train while it was parked there at the crossing. And it started out and when it did he lost his hold and fell. I really shiver to this day about it. But Eva married Gilbert Woods. As far as I am concerned Eva is one of the most beautiful people in the world. She really is.
JK: That is Mrs. Cart's daughter?
MH: No, that is, yes Mrs. Cart's daughter, Lolla that is her daughter. She only had the one daughter and she made clothes for her little niece who was Stanley Cart's daughter my best friend, Mary Lou. And I use to wish that I had an Aunt that would make me pretty clothes. I just wished for it so much. And then when we did move to McDonald, Eva made me a dress before we left. I'll never forget it. I even know the color and it had ruffles and I use to think Mary Lou was the luckiest girl In the whole world to have an Aunt that could do that. And Mary Lou and I have been good friends for years, well ever since we first met I guess when we were real little.
JK: How about some of the other people in Thurmond that you remember.
MH: Well I remember quite a lot of the older people. Mr. and Mrs. Switzer; lived in a double house, on. one side and on the other side was one family of McGuffins but I don't think they were the ones that is there now. They are related. And I used to go over to Mrs. Switzer’s sometimes and sit with her. She had one of these old time swings that you swing with your feet. The feet faced each other and oh how I loved to go over there and sit with her. Then when she moved away, she and her husband went wherever then the other family of McGovern s moved into that side of the house, And I remember when Mrs. McGovern had a baby and we wanted so bad to go see it and my mother said no because it didn’t have its eyes open yet. So, one day we did anyway, we sneaked over and it had its little eyes open so I thought, “Well that is something that it didn't have its eyes closed, you know" but the McGoverns were a large family. There was brothers they lived on each side of this double house. They had a lot of children and they were very nice people. And then of course the Kellys, I remembered them. I don't think they were there at that time. But Jack Kelly and his wife and sons were really nice people and then we had the Clarks, Benny Clark and they had three children, Jack who was the oldest who I think right now is in Texas, and Irene who is in California I believe and then the youngest one Ralph, he died just a few years ago. We were in the same grade, Ralph and I. And then I had a teacher at the Thurmond school that I loved very much. Her name was Goldie Shuck. She was a little person, a small person and I liked her so much. Then our principle was Mr. Pitsinbarger at that time. I started to school when I was four.
JK: When you were four?
MH: I was four when I started to school. I graduated from the eight grade when I was twelve and it is now they won't let children go to school unless they have to be, let's see the law up here, but to be in the first grade they wouldn't ever hear of taking a four year old child in the first grade. Then of course we didn't have kindergarden. It started out the Primer, then the second grade. Then I remember the, of course the McGutherns and the Carts, we were the three largest families I guess that was there and I am trying to think of some of them. There was a family of Varies and they had no children.
JK: Were Mr. and Mrs. Pugh there about that time?
MH: No, this was when I was real small and I didn't know them. The Pughs lived at Stone Cliff in the first part and then I knew them when I started to school and he bought the store across the river, Mr. Pugh.
JK: How about the type of people up there, are they mostly all immigrates, or people that have been in Thurmond for a long time, blacks, whites.
MH: Well they were all whites there. The little house that did belong to McClungs, I am not sure if it does or not that was right past McGuffins house on the little hill.
END OF SIDE ONE - TAPE ONE
Description
Housewife, Beury Mansion, Thurmond, Coal Towns
Date Created
02/08/1984
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