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Grace Shumway Mathis | Oral History
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GM: That was in 1935.
MH: In 1935? Holy cow!
GM: We have lived here [St. George] ever since and I am not moving either! [Laughter]
MH: [Laughter] Tell [about] the first time you saw the Pine [Spring] Ranch.
GM: Lillian [(Mathis) Andrus], [Reed’s] sister [was] my age — Reed [Miles Mathis] was five years older than I — Lillian, and her husband [Garth Andrus] and I went out. They took me out for the first time and we stayed, maybe, five days and Reed came [back] in with us. That was not the first summer, I don’t believe; that was the second summer. After that, he would take me out when they would start branding so I could cook for them.
MH: What was your first impression when you got out there?
GM: I thought it was beautiful. But I didn’t like living there the first summer.
MH: Why didn’t you like living there?
GM: It was so lonesome. I don’t know why, heavens, I wasn’t a city [girl]! My dad had cattle out [in] Kanab [Kane County, Utah] and he had a little ranch over [in] Johnson [Wash]. [Reed and I] were from the same background but I had never ridden a horse.
MH: If you were out there, you had to learn to ride a horse.
GM: Yes, I did and I loved it. I wasn’t a good rider.
MH: Did Reed always have good horses?
GM: Always, and a lot of them! He had a [inaudible] horse, and my [children] loved it out there. “Wally” [Wallace Mathis] loved it out there; so did Barbara [Mathis].
MH: Yes, just like Reed, you can’t get [“Wally”] back to St. George.
GM: No. Our daughter, Barbara, was a good rider. [The] first time that Reed put her on a horse, he said, “My gosh! She rides that [horse] like she is supposed to. And then, there is you!” [Laughter] But, I liked it; [and] I learned to ride a little. I wouldn’t be a rodeo queen! I loved it out there!
MH: What was it like? You had to take everything you were going to eat from St. George [with you] when you went out there.
GM: Yes.
MH: No refrigeration?
GM: We had a gas refrigerator.
MH: [Did] you have a propane refrigerator?
GM: Not the first years, but we still had one over at the old house over here. We had a gas refrigerator in the front room.
MH: Talk about that house. Was that house always in that location?
GM: [It has been] ever since I was there.
MH: Okay.
GM: I think the story is that two rooms [of] the house were over by Lake Flat. A man lived out there [who] helped the Mathis — what was his name? He lived there for a long time. I don’t know his name; it will come to me. Anyway, they put [the two rooms] on skids and dragged it over and put it next to the hill.
MH: Then you [folks] added on to it over the years?
GM: Yes, [we] did.
MH: Was there ever a spring up behind that house that you could ride up to?
GM: Yes. We [would] go through the corrals and up that little canyon a lot of times. We had a little red wagon out there. The Shelleys had lived out there in the summertime. They had children [who] left the little red wagon out there. I always went out with Blanche [(Mathis) McComb)], Reed’s sister, that first year. She loved it out there so we would stay a month at a time. We would make sandwiches [and] go [out] in the evenings [with] our [children]. I had “Wally” and she had Kent; they are the same age. We would go up [to the spring] and have our little picnic and come back. [It was] the best water. We would always bring a bucket of water back to drink. The well had [very] good water in it too.
MH: When did you dig the well?
GM: [The well] was [dug] long before I got there. That [would be] before 1933.
MH: Was the well dug? It wasn’t drilled?
GM: Yes, it was dug. But it had [very] good water.
MH: Who put the windmill on it?
GM: I don’t know.
MH: It was there when you got there.
GM: It was there when I [came]. If you will look at that picture in there, it was a good, well-kept place. Reed always kept up the barns, the house and everything [very] well. That is what makes me sick about this business.
MH: As an aside, we may want to talk about that. When they [are] ready to go in and restore that, they may want to talk to you to try and make it as accurate as they can.
GM: Yes.
MH: That will be in the next year or so. What was the drive from St. George out to the ranch like?
GM: I hated that! [Laughter] We would go out to Mt. Trumbull.
MH: You [went] over Mt. Trumbull?
GM: Yes. We would go out there and have our breakfast the first morning. We would leave here around 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning.
MH: [Did you] go over towards Pipe Spring and then into Mt. Trumbull?
GM: No. Just right out south [of] here.
MH: Oh, you would go out Quail Canyon, past Wolf Hole and out to Mt. Trumbull by the schoolhouse.
GM: Yes. Then, just past Bundys, we would turn off at the schoolhouse [and] go on. We would have our breakfast; then we would get to the ranch. We had to cross that dang wash twenty-seven times! Now, you don’t cross it at all, do you?
MH: No. You actually turn before you get to Mt. Trumbull [inaudible].
GM: Little babies hitting your head. That was the worst part of [it] all. [Laughter]. We would get to the ranch and just relax and have a good time. Blanche made bread. I never did bake bread out there. We took bread out [with us]. I wasn’t [a] bread maker. But Blanche would make bread. We had a [very] good time and we ate [well]. I was thinking the other night [about] what we ate. We had cake mixes [then]. I knew how to make cakes anyway. I could do cakes! We had quite a bit of beef out there.
MH: Reed’s father [Wallace “Wally” Brigham Mathis] first [owned] the ranch, didn’t he?
GM: Yes. I think the story goes that he was out [at] the mine.
MH: The Grand Gulch Mine?
GM: Yes. We would take our friends down there and they loved it. We would spend half a day down there.
MH: At the Grand Gulch Mine?
GM: Yes.
MH: Was it still [operating]?
GM: Yes, when I first married. It didn’t last very long, though. I went down once while there were people living there. I don’t know when it stopped [operation].
MH: Can you remember anything about it? What was it like down there?
GM: Have you been there?
MH: Yes, ma’am.
GM: Was [the] place where they ate still there?
MH: Yes, the bunkhouse [and] the big dining hall is still there. The chimney for the refinery is still there.
GM: Yes, those big holes where they mined. You could see where they had houses all around [the area].
MH: They had tent cabins out there.
GM: Yes, we would take our friends down there, spend a few hours and come back. The first time we went down there, I think it took us half a day to get down there. [Laughter] But they started to grade the roads and it [was] nicer. The roads [are]
so much nicer now. It takes our [children] two hours to get out there, but it took Reed and me three [hours].
MH: It took me a little more than two hours to get out there last week. What kind of vehicles did you have?
GM: Reed always drove a good car [and] a good truck. He always put new tires — four-ply, is that [what] you put on those trucks — before he ever took it out there. I only remember, in our later years, of having just one of our tires go flat coming in [to St. George].
MH: That has to be some sort of a record!
GM: That is something.
MH: Or you were a careful driver!
GM: I didn’t drive out there, Reed did [that]. He wasn’t a fast driver out there.
MH: Who were your neighbors out there?
GM: We had good neighbors. [Fernard LeMoyne] “Buster” and Lola Dawn [(Swapp) Esplin] and their children. Gene McAllister lived out there. He worked for [Jonathon Deyo] “Slim” [Waring].
MH: He worked for “Slim” Waring?
GM: Yes, and he worked for “Buster” too.
MH: Did you ever know “Doc” Norris Brown?
GM: I knew “Doc” Norris [in] Kanab and I knew him out [on the Arizona Strip] too. We used to invite “Doc” Norris [but] Jean never would come to our house [nor] have anything to do with us.
MH: Oh?
GM: You know, [come] for dinner or anything like that. “Buster” came over all the time if he was [out] there alone. I was always tickled to see him riding through the fields coming over for lunch. Then he would go back afterwards. His [children played] with our two children. We had a [place] out in front of our house where we would have our picnics [and] wiener roasts. [It was] right down where Amy Sorenson lived out there. Amy would be a good one for you to [interview]. Do you know Amy Sorenson?
MH: You will have to write that name down.
GM: She lives up [in] Enterprise [Washington County, Utah] now.
MH: No, [I don’t know her]. Her name is Amy Sorenson?
GM: She married a Sorenson. Bill Sorenson and his wife lived out there [and] worked for Reed for two or three summers. So did Amy’s husband. Amy lived out [at] the ranch with her little [children] every summer for awhile. She lives somewhere up [in] Enterprise. She has been to see me three or four times.
MH: [What] was her husband’s name?
GM: Amy’s husband was — you know, all my life I couldn’t remember names and I didn’t care. I could remember places, but I couldn’t remember names! [Laughter]
MH: I was just wondering how she would be listed in the telephone book.
GM: I don’t know. I don’t think there are too many Sorensons up there.
MH: No, in Enterprise, there probably isn’t.
GM: I don’t think so. She has a son [who] lives up there, but they don’t live together. I only met the son. I think she loved it out there, too.
MH: She worked for Reed?
GM: Her husband did for two or three summers.
MH: Yes.
GM: But she would be a good one [to interview]. She could tell you just how it was. She liked it then.
MH: Let me run a name by you. Luther Swanner, did you ever know him?
GM: No, but I have heard of him.
MH: He was a cowboy [and] won the all-around cowboy championship back in 1919.
GM: Yes. He was quite a [bit] before my day, but I have heard stories about him.
MH: [Tell] about “Slim” and Mary [(Osburn)Waring]. Describe them. Was “Slim” tall [or] short?
GM: “Slim” was a good-looking [fellow]. They lived over [at] Horse Valley at first. Then Mary built a house down at Wildcat. She had a flushing toilet, like we did
[at] our new house. [Laughter] That was the main thing and [a] shower. Oh, I got my shower!
MH: Did you get your shower?
GM: Yes. I don’t know if that house was there [then]. It was built around the time that we were married. They were older than us, but they were [very] good neighbors. They would have lunch with us and we would go over to their place. I don’t think we ever had lunch [at] their house, but always dessert. I would ride over there with the two [children]. She and “Slim” would come to our house quite a bit. I think she loved Horse Valley more than she did [the ranch at Wildcat].
“Buster” lived at House [Rock] Valley and his family. They were the ones [who] would come over when our friends would come out [and] we would always have wiener roasts out by the well. We would send “Wally” over to tell the Esplins to come. They remember [that]. “Buster’s” son is always telling me about all those good wiener roasts we had over [at] our ranch. [Laughter] Little [children] out there don’t get to do those kinds of things. We always had company on the Fourth of July, or the Twenty-fourth [of July]. Unless we came to town [St. George], somebody would come out [to the ranch].
MH: [Did] you spend the summers out there?
GM: Yes, we came in [to St. George] a lot, though.
MH: Did Reed spend the winters out there?
GM: No. He would try to come in before it snowed. [At that time] it used to snow early. He was always in [town] for Thanksgiving. He tells about coming in one year when it was so cold. He stopped at Wolf Hole. There was a store at Wolf Hole and [some small] cabins.
MH: There used to be a store at Wolf Hole.
GM: He [rented] a cabin and stayed overnight because it was so cold [and] came in the next morning. This was in about 1928.
MH: What was the most fun you ever had out there?
GM: [Laughter] I don’t know, we have had so much — I wouldn’t dare tell you some of the fun things we did! Yes, I dare! It wasn’t bad. We had our friends, Ina and Darrell Bracken, Emma and Henry Crosby, and Laree and “Blondie” Porter [come out to the ranch]. “Blondie” and Laree wouldn’t come out [very often]. One time he came out and sat on the front porch. He said, “My hell, Grace. If I had known it was this pretty and so much fun out here, I would have been out
here every time.” He had been out to Bundyville and he didn’t know he was in the ponderosas. We took him out to the Grand Canyon [National Park]. That was one [place] we would [go] over old rough roads. It was only about ten miles, but [the roads] were so rough and bumpy. [Laughter] We would go out there and spend a lot of time out on the [north] rim of the [Grand] Canyon.
One time we had been someplace and Ina said, “I am not going to get in your damn tub Grace, but I want a bath.” [Laughter] I said, “Okay. Aunt Blanche, when she is here, goes in [the] back bedroom and takes a little pan of water. I don’t know what she does in there, but you go in there and take your little pan of water, your soap and you have your little spit bath.” So she did. There was only little, tiny windows in that back bedroom. Emma said, “Let’s go see how she is doing.” So we started looking through the little back windows. This is [something] we did all the time. She took off her shirt and she rubbed. Finally, she took off her brassiere and here came Reed. [He] said, “What are you doing?” I said, “We are watching Ina have a bath.” He started to look in [and] just then, she looked up. “You damn [people]!” We had a lot of fun like that! All the time!
MH: Has she ever forgiven you?
GM: Yes! One Fourth of July they were out there. Reed had [some] bird seeds. I don’t know what they were because I didn’t pay that much attention. He would put them on a rope and take them down to the field. There were so many sparrows [to] eat [the] birdseed. He would take [the seeds] down there and [the birds would fly] off. He would put some kind of — what are those things you [set] off on the Fourth of July?
MH: Firecrackers?
GM: Yes, I guess they were firecrackers. Anyway, he put them so far apart and hung them in tree. Garth was kind of spooky out there; he didn’t like it too much. He had heard all these terrible stories about the ranch. So he [Reed] went out and put [the string] in the back tree and came around. We were all sitting around on [the] big front porch, laughing and talking, and having fun. Finally, a gun [firecracker] went off [in] the backyard. Garth said, “Did you hear that?” Reed said, “What?” Then it went off again. [Laughter] And it went off again. Then, everybody got excited. “What is that back there?” I remember “Blondie” and Pat went around to see what Reed had. They said, “We will make Garth feel —.” But it was kind of spooky; [and] about 10:00 at night.
MH: [Inaudible]
GM: Yes. But we did things like that all the time.
MH: What was the worst thing that ever happened to you out there?
GM: Worst thing? Reed, being a cowboy as long as he was, when he was five years old he went out to the ranch. His mother [Hannah Miranda “Minnie (Miles) Mathis] said she cried all the time he was out there [and] prayed [that] dad would take good care of him. He loved it! Then he would go out and stay with the people [who] ran the ranch. He didn’t care who ran it, he would go out and stay. They all loved him. Mrs. Sturtzenegger told me how she liked having Reed come over on his horse. They [lived] over around Oak Grove.
MH: They were over past Oak Grove.
GM: Yes. They had a house [there].
MH: Did she have a son named Gene [Sturtzenegger]?
GM: Have you been down to Gene’s [place]?
MH: You didn’t tell me what the worst thing that ever happened to you.
GM: I was trying to tell you, nothing “worst” happened. I just loved it out there!
MH: Nobody got sick or hurt?
GM: [Laughter] We had some friends out there, thank goodness! They were our neighbors, the Graffs. They were talking about this [incident] the other day. We never had an arm broken or anything like that. All the time Reed was out on the ranch, he never had a broken arm.
MH: [Not from] all the wild cattle he roped? [Or] all the fires he fought?
GM: And he has [been] thrown off the horse.
MH: Yes.
GM: One day, “Gar” came in; “Gar” and “Lil”, his sister Lillian and her husband — and he was still shaking. He said, “That damn Reed! He fell right over his head. His horse went down and he fell right over his head. He got up and I said to Reed, ‘I bet you have had a lot of those kinds of accidents. You haven’t told anybody about them.’” He said, “I’m just lucky; I have never had a broken toe, even out here.”
MH: Wow!
GM: We would go on picnics and watch the sunsets out there – so gorgeous. When we were first out there, I would want our little [children] to enjoy the sunsets. We would get in the truck [and] go over to Lake Flat, just looking over towards our place; the sunsets were so beautiful. We used to take that old wagon and go down
to Oak Grove [and] places like that, just for the fun of it. This time “Wally” was playing. Clyde brought his boys down there and they were playing on that dang wagon. When the tongue comes up [it is] old dirty, rusty iron. He still has the scar. It is right here on his wrist. It was [odd that] it didn’t cut one of those veins there, it [was] cut [very] deep.
MH: It didn’t [cut] a tendon or a bone?
GM: No. I said, “We have to go to town.” It frightened me to death. Clyde said, “I don’t think so. Have you [any] alcohol?” I said, “Yes!” He said, “Don’t tell him, we will put some on it. Then we will wrap it.” Can you imagine? I felt so sorry for him.
MH: Was this Reed who cut himself?
GM: No, “Wally.” He was about ten [or] twelve [years old].
MH: I bet he cried like a son-of-a-gun!
GM: He ran all over [the] ranch — down to the barns [and] back. I felt so sorry for him. But we had gauze and [everything] out there.
MH: I bet you had to disinfect it.
GM: Yes. We had [some] mentholatum. We didn’t have anything else — well, there wasn’t anything else in those days.
MH: [Did] anyone get sick out there?
GM: Somebody died out there. [It was] somebody who worked for Reed, but that was long before my day. I think he had some kind of spell, I don’t know, and Reed brought him in. He didn’t like that. He felt bad about that all the time. His mother worked in the hospital. [They were] such nice people [and] were [very] cute. They lived down by grandma. That was the only terrible [event] that happened out there that I know about. My [children] rode horses. Barbara loved to ride a horse. She would go and brand [cattle] with her dad. She would bring him the branding irons [and] she would get paid for it. Then she would come [to St. George] and buy her winter clothes. She thought she was [very] smart. [Neither] of them [were] ever bucked off, that I know of, only Reed!
MH: Was the fellow who taught Reed to rope? [Was] Ratcliff, still around when
you —
GM: Ratcliff? Yes, he lived [out] there. Andy Ratcliff [was] her husband. Reed loved Andy Ratcliff.
MH: Did you ever meet him?
GM: No, but I did her [his wife].
MH: What was she like?
GM: They were building the Boulder Dam. We would go down to [Las] Vegas [Nevada] all the time to see how it was coming along. [Reed] knew that Andy Ratcliff just loved her [his wife]. [Reed] said she raised him. I guess he settled the ranch for Grandpa [Mathis]. He lived on the ranch. When they would come to town, they would go to their place to stay. They lived up in Oregon or someplace. They came here for the summer and lived in a campground over [in] Washington [City, Washington County, Utah] and I met them there. I did too meet him, because he was here that one winter. He had bad health, but I can’t remember too much what he looked like. She was quite a pretty lady and liked the hot weather. She liked St. George and so did he. I guess he died right after he went back [to Oregon] after he [had been here that] winter. She came back and was [living] in [Las] Vegas. [Reed] knew she was down there working in one of the hotels, making beds. [Reed] and I went down. She was so tickled to see “my little Reed”, and he was so tickled to see her.
MH: Did they ever have any children?
GM: I don’t think they had any children. I never did meet them. But they knew Reed. He or “Wally” probably told you, but I always thought that Grandpa [Mathis] started taking a few calves out to the mine. Didn’t he take the mail and the groceries out? Then somebody said, “Go up on the hill, up to Pine [Spring].”
MH: Yes.
GM: Because that was a good place to raise some [cattle]. That is how he, Carl [Mathis], settled. [Carl was a brother to Reed Mathis.]
MH: [Inaudible] round up.
GM: Yes.
MH: [He] took a couple calves out to graze while he was going back and forth to the mine.
GM: Yes.
MH: They said, “Move them up to Pine [Spring],” and that is how —
GM: Yes. Every time he went out he would take a few calves out in the buggy or the wagon. [Laughter]
MH: What happened when you wound-up back in St. George with the [children] in school? Were they always chomping at the bit to go back out to the ranch?
GM: They always were tickled to death [to return to the ranch], especially “Wally.” Barbara did too. When she [was] a teenager, it was kind of lonesome out there for her, so we would let her take a friend but they would get lonesome, too, out there. I never did get very lonesome after the first five years or so [that] I was out there.
MH: [Laughter]
GM: I was just tickled to get out there! I would do a lot of needlepoint and a lot of fancy work. I would make a lot of quilts. I was just having a good time, the whole time I was there.
MH: You were the hostess.
GM: Yes. You could make a pot of beans with a lot of ham in it; they would eat it all week [and] liked it! They would think they had a [very] good dinner. Put [out] a piece of cake [and] a salad [with it]! [Laughter]
MH: Secrets of the cook!
GM: Yes. [And] we had beef steak and potatoes [with] gravy.
MH: Did you ever [plant] a garden out there?
GM: I didn’t, but Amy Sorenson did. Amy’s in-laws [Bill Sorenson and his wife] were older people [and] they lived out there. Amy’s husband was their son and he worked for Reed while the dad was [there]. When Amy went out, she [planted] a beautiful garden down by the well. Reed fenced it in for her. She had cabbage; I’d never seen such [heads]. Reed would bring me cabbage for coleslaw. [The] carrots [were] bigger than I had ever seen. She loved [the garden]. For two years, she had a beautiful garden out there. No, I didn’t [ever plant a garden].
MH: Did the deer get in and eat [the plants] up?
GM: They had [a] wire fence around it, but I think the deer still got in there. They had pretty deer out there [with] great big horns. They still do.
MH: Was the growing season long enough?
GM: The main thing our friends liked to do was go spotlighting [animals] at night.
MH: [Laughter]
GM: We would go down to Kelly [Point], that is just below the —
MH: It is a ways out there, yes.
GM: That was just down below our house [about] two or three miles over at Lake Flat. But Kelly [Point] seemed to have the great big horned deer. Our friend, Darrell Bracken, was a deer hunter. He couldn’t believe that [the deer horns] could be that big. He was born and raised up [in] Pine Valley [Washington County, Utah]. We [would] wait until about 10:00 [p. m.] at night to go spotlighting. We would go down spotlighting when we had friends [out to the ranch]. [Sometimes] Reed and I would go spotlighting, we [liked] it too. When we were out there alone we always left the front porch light on. We had a motor that [provided] lights. We had a gas refrigerator [and] gas lights.
MH: Hang that deer up in the back, on the shady side.
GM: A lot of times Reed and I would go down in Kelly [Point] and see the prettiest deer. There for a while, [deer] were all over the place. And then, here came all those deer hunters out there one year. It was [featured] in [a] sport magazine back east. They kind of thinned [the deer] out, but they are back there now. They were two years ago when I was out there and we went spotlighting. My [children] love to spotlight!
MH: Don’t say that!
GM: They do, but they don’t kill anything! [Laughter]
MH: Alright, [they are] just looking for them.
GM: We never have killed [any deer]. Reed and I never brought a [deer] across the line. I don’t like venison. I [fix] jerky venison, but I don’t eat venison. I believe that was the old cot back there. [Looking at a picture]
MH: That could well be. There was a cot on the porch.
GM: That is it. We had a bed [laughter] — I will tell you this [story]. Ina and Darrell, Henry and Emma were all out there. We drew where they were all going to sleep. One [person] had to sleep out on the front porch.
MH: Did you draw lots?
GM: One had to sleep in the front room on the cot, one had to sleep in Aunt Blanche’s bedroom, but Reed wouldn’t give up his bed for nobody! So “Em” and “Hen” [Emma and Henry Crosby] were sleeping outside, and the moon was coming up that night. There was [a] great big moon coming up.
MH: Great, big yellow moon.
GM: We coaxed them, “Please.” We played cards for a little while then, you know men — “we are going to bed.” So they all went to bed. It was kind of cold; we had a fire in the kitchen and a fire in the fireplace, just a little one, not too [big]. I guess it was in the fall of the year. But we wanted to watch that big harvest moon come up. You could sit on [the] front porch [or] go out in our yard and watch it come up through the pines. Those silly old men wouldn’t stay up long enough to see [it]! Here came Reed; dancing [and] holding up his pajama pants like this [with] his hand over his head. He danced over to the fireplace, danced back [and] didn’t say one word. Things like that happened all the time! Then we all washed our feet in the basin because they wouldn’t use my bathtub outside! [Laughter] Emma Crosby was the giggliest and the cutest friend you could ever have. So she jumps up, washes her feet and tiptoes over to her bed outside, right here on the porch. [Then] we hear this big scream and Reed jumps out of bed. “Em” has gone to bed [and] put her feet right into “Hen’s” stomach! He gives her a kick and she lands over in front of our bedroom door! [Laughter]
MH: [Laughter]
GM: She didn’t [break] a bone. I said, “Are you hurt?” That was the first thing out of [my mouth]. She was giggling so dang hard! We didn’t go to bed until 1:00
[a. m.]. They were the dangest [friends]. [Laughter]
Ina wants to go back out there so badly. Her husband is gone. Emma and Henry are gone. “Blondie” and Laree are gone. Just Ina and I are left. I don’t believe I could take it, but she wants to go back [to the ranch].
MH: I think you are up to it.
GM: I don’t know. I get so tired. “Blondie” was the cop [Utah Highway Patrolman] here in this town. Did you ever know him?
MH: No, I don’t believe I did.
GM: He was on the road.
MH: You [mentioned] a little playhouse behind the cabin.
GM: Yes.
MH: Who built that, and for whom?
GM: Reed [built it] for our [children].
MH: Was [it] just behind the cabin? Up the hill a little ways?
GM: No, [it was] between [there] and the outside privy; right up the walk.
MH: I wonder if there is anything left of it.
GM: I don’t know. There was quite a bit [of it] when I left there. But people have gone out there and taken [things]. I took [something] off [that is] right over there. I brought [it] in from right over there, a wood [item]. Reed said, “If you start that, then everybody else will come in [and take something].” And they have; I can see a lot of boards [are] gone. The windows are all gone.
MH: Let me ask you a question. Have you some pictures of it when you were using it?
GM: Yes.
MH: Maybe if they try to reconstruct and rehabilitate [the ranch], they may want to see pictures so they [would] know what it looked like.
GM: There is one [picture] if you want to see it.
MH: We will get with “Wally” and work on that.
GM: Yes, there is one [picture] in there that is [very] good. [It was taken] when I first went out [there].
MH: [While] you were out there, was anybody doing any logging down around Green Spring and “Slim’s” place [or] out that way?
GM: Yes. The people from the polygamist [groups in Colorado City, Arizona and Hildale, Washington County, Utah] were out there.
MH: Was that Ben Bistline and [his] group?
GM: Yes.
MH: Did you ever run into [them]?
GM: Yes, they came over and got water. [Very] nice people; I loved them.
MH: I interviewed Ben last week.
GM: Did you?
MH: Were you out there when the saw mill burned down?
GM: Yes, I was out there that whole summer.
MH: What do you remember about that?
GM: I remember that they had come over to our place to get drinking water out of the well, and they were [very] nice people. I remember that we could see the saw mill [and] it was busy all the time. We could see the road for about two minutes between the ponderosas, so we knew when somebody went over there [as] we could see them. [One] Sunday, I guess [Ben] told you, they left two [boys] out there to watch the saw mill and they went down to the [Colorado] River. Somebody came over and told us that the saw mill had burned down. “Buster” or somebody came over to our house. We went over and they had taken a lot of [items]. But their cabins where they slept were still there. I guess they still are, aren’t they?
MH: No, they are gone now.
GM: Are they?
MH: Yes.
GM: I feel terrible [and] sad. Because they were quite happy out there. Were they there two summers? I think they were.
MH: Yes, I believe they were.
GM: I think they were, too.
MH: That was a long way to haul logs.
GM: It was!
MH: Or even timber, if you cut it into lumber, it is a long way down.
GM: Yes, it is. It was on the way over to “Slim’s”. We would go to “Slim’s” [and] then go down to where they were [milling] the logs.
MH: Yes. Do you remember the Snyders?
GM: Yes.
MH: Describe Afton Snyder.
GM: His wife and I were [very] good friends. Laura was her name. She had all these cute little [children]. I didn’t know Afton that well. But she was so cute, I loved her. She was lonesome out there. She would bring all these cute little [children]. Her oldest little girl was beautiful. She had pretty auburn hair. She is still alive; I see her every once in awhile. She doesn’t live here. Laura was so cute. Blanche and I would get in [the] old truck and go down [to their place]. We wouldn’t go down Main Street [Valley]; we would go behind [inaudible]. We [would go down
over [the] hill where the saw mill people brought [the logs] out and it was [so] bumpy. I would drive it and away we would go! She was so tickled to see us. She would always try to give us vegetables. She had a good vegetable garden. We would always come home with carrots. One time she said, “You just excuse me a few minutes and listen to the radio.” And — no, “do something.” She couldn’t have a radio. Anyway, here she came in with two chickens, all plucked and cleaned.
MH: Wow!
GM: I don’t know how she did it in the half-hour she was gone.
MH: [Laughter]
GM: We took [them] and had the best dinner you can imagine the next day. We had [a] fried chicken dinner. I remember we had [chicken] for two or three days! She was just like that. She would come up to our place. I can remember taking oranges out to the old cellar behind our house in those wood crates. Do you remember those wooden [crates]?
MH: Yes, I remember orange crates.
GM: We would take a full [crate of oranges] out when we went out, and it would stay all summer down in that [cellar].
MH: Do you think that cellar is still back there?
GM: It fell in, but somebody said it looked like someone had dug it out again. The last year I was out there, I thought it looked like it had caved in. Ken and — I have his telephone number there. Oh, he loved that ranch.
MH: What year was [it] when you took him out?
GM: [It was] about ten years ago. We were just going to run out and [come] right back. We went down to the [Colorado] River, we went over to Snyders, we went everyplace. We [arrived] home at 12:00 [midnight].
MH: When you say you went down to the river, did you go down past Grand Gulch Mine and down to [the north rim of the] Grand Canyon?
GM: No, we don’t go down that way. We go down to “Slim’s” and then take a road off, not Horse Valley [but], down to where the house is.
MH: [Inaudible]
GM: What is that [area] called? [The] big house just before you start going up the hill to [the] Mathis [Ranch]? Is it called Wildcat?
MH: Yes, Wildcat.
GM: Yes, you go to Wildcat and then you go off towards — I don’t know where you go off towards [but] I could take you there!
MH: Off towards [inaudible] and down that way? Did you come out at Grand Wash?
GM: No. You don’t come out of anything. You just go over bumpy roads to the [Grand] Canyon, south.
MH: And it goes right down to the [Colorado] River?
GM: No, [but] you can see the river.
MH: That’s it, you were on the overlook at Twin [Creek].
GM: Yes. We were over there someplace.
MH: Or Snap [Canyon], out that way, maybe?
GM: We went out on Twin [Creek]. Now [do] you see?
MH: I didn’t know how you were getting down to the [Colorado] River.
GM: No, we didn’t get down to the river. That was where the cattle go off, at Twin [Creek] for [the] winter. I saw where the trail went off. But we were talking [about] the Snyders.
MH: Yes, we were talking about the Snyders. They lived sort of a simple life out there.
GM: Yes, they did. She would come up and spend the day with me. I was talking about [the] oranges. Her little [children] would have the most fun. I would let them go down [and get an orange]. Anything, [like] milk, would stay there for two or three days. Sometimes, if it was cool enough weather, I could set
Jell-O. We would set Jell-O in a bucket and put it down the well. By noon it would be all set up. That was [how] cold [the] water was. We would set it in cold water in one of those buckets.
MH: What year was it that Reed finally sold the ranch and you built your house [here]?
GM: I don’t know. I really don’t know. I was going to say late 1960s, but I don’t know.
MH: When was the last time you were out there?
GM: Three years ago. [About 2003.]
MH: It is about time you went back.
GM: Yes. “Wally” said, “We are taking all the children.” The last two years, Reed didn’t go out very much. Jack and Dick Mathis used to get Reed every month and take him out. After they sold the ranch we didn’t go out. Reed and I lived [in] the new house, so I liked to get out there with just him and me. We lived there for a good ten years.
MH: Every summer?
GM: Yes, every summer we would go out. Sometimes he had to be out there to water the cattle. We would have to haul water [for the cattle].
MH: Did he still ride a horse?
GM: No, he didn’t. I remember when he quit riding horses. It hurt me more than it did him. He had our grandchildren and great-grandchildren out there. They were just little [youngsters]. A calf got out and he said, “I’ll go get it.” And he couldn’t get on the horse. So Jed had to go get the calf in and Jed had never been on a horse very much. It was quite a long story.
Anyway, the Snyders and I had a [very] good time. She would come up to our place. [Her] little [children] were so cute, so nice [and] so polite. She would let me tend the [children] if she had to go to a funeral or [sometimes] she would let me tend one of them. It was fun just to know Laura.
MH: When did the Esplins buy Wildcat from “Slim”? Didn’t they buy that [ranch] from him?
GM: I think it was Mary [Waring’s] until Mary passed away.
MH: “Slim” passed away first and then Mary.
GM: Yes.
MH: Then the Esplins took it over?
GM: Yes. I really think that [is right], but I’m not sure. [The Warings didn’t] have any children.
MH: Yes.
GM: Mary had nieces and nephews [who] were nice [and] she was [very] close to [them]. I know they would come out there and stay with her. I know that she was [very] close to them while she was in Arizona. They took care of her.
MH: Other than Reed, who was the best cowboy out there?
GM: Reed! [Laughter]
MH: [Laughter] We agree [that] Reed was the best cowboy!
GM: I don’t know.
MH: Did you ever see “Buster” or [Elmo Aaron] “Frosty”, or any of those [fellows]?
GM: “Frosty” was over at Bundyville.
MH: Yes, along with [Vivian August] “Pat” [Bundy].
GM: I imagine he was a [fairly] good cowboy. “Frosty”, Myron Jones, Reed and I went to Arizona for [the] Soil Conservation [Service] meetings for twenty-one years together. It was so [much] fun.
MH: [Laughter] I want to ask you about Myron Jones. Didn’t he do [some] logging out there?
GM: Yes, and he worked for Mathis’ a lot.
MH: He worked for them?
GM: I know he graded [the] roads.
MH: Yes, he was considered quite a [heavy] equipment operator.
GM: Yes. But didn’t he build [some] of those reservoirs out there for Mathis’?
MH: He may well have. I’m going to interview him and I will ask.
GM: I’m not sure about that but he was out there quite a bit.
MH: But he wasn’t ranching?
GM: He has a ranch closer to here.
MH: He has one in St. George?
GM: Yes. He has a ranch out by Wolf Hole or someplace out there.
MH: Was he good friends with Reed?
GM: Yes, [very] good friends with Reed. He is still alive.
MH: Yes, and you [folks] used to go to the Soil Conservation [Service] meetings [but] didn’t attend many meetings!
GM: [We went for] twenty-one years. [Laughter] We had so much fun, too. That silly, old “Frosty” Bundy, he was so [much] fun!
MH: Where were the Soil Conservation [Service] meetings held?
GM: They were all over Arizona. We were in Flagstaff, in Phoenix two or three times [and] all [the] small towns around Phoenix. It was fun to go to them; we didn’t miss a one. The six of us would get into Reed’s car and away we would go. [Laughter] [The meetings were] always in January. We would stay at nice places. The girls would go shopping and [the men] would go to their meetings. Then we always took two days coming home. [We] made a little vacation out of it.
MH: [The] same [amount of] time [that] it would take you to get back out to the ranch.
GM: We would come over on the east side of Arizona, up through Taylor, Snowflake [and] over [that way]. Or we would come up the river.
MH: Do you remember when [Wayne] Gardner died out [on the Arizona Strip] trying to bring his sheep in? [January 1949]
GM: Yes. That was so sad.
MH: Was Reed involved in that?
GM: Yes. Reed went out the first time they went out [to look for Wayne]. I don’t know all who went out. He felt so bad because they couldn’t find him. They didn’t find him the first time.
MH: No, they didn’t. Wasn’t it a couple of weeks later?
GM: Yes. I think they [found him when they] went out the second time. When the snow melted, they found his hat. He was a good friend of ours.
MH: Were you out there when Jack Weston died out there? Or was that before you were there?
GM: No, I wasn’t out there, but Grandpa Mathis was the one that showed the sheriff where to go. He was out there. But that was quite a siege. That was after I was out there.
MH: Do you remember George Weston, his brother?
GM: Yes. He was [very] nice.
MH: [A] nice man?
GM: Good looking. He had his wife and [it was] said [that] she was from St. George. I didn’t know her. She was nice and they had little [children]. Do you know what I remember? They never did ask me in their home. But we went over there two or three times. They had a phonograph in their house. It [played] such pretty music, waltzes and classical music. You would see those little [children] in there, just listening to it. I wonder where they are. The lady, his wife, was [very] nice.
MH: What was George doing out there? Was he was a doctor?
GM: Yes.
MH: Was he ranching?
GM: They were [ranching] down by Snyders.
MH: Yes.
GM: He is buried out there. Who is buried out there? Have you been to that grave?
MH: Yes, but that was Jack, his brother’s [grave]. He was the outlaw.
GM: Yes. I can’t believe Jack was an outlaw. Heavens, Jack Weston lived out [in] Kanab when I was there.
MH: Was he in Kanab when you were there?
[END OF TAPE – SIDE ONE]
MH: Wasn’t he supposed to have been the [fellow] who robbed a store and handcuffed the sheriff to [a] tree? [Sheriff Lew Fife of Iron County, Utah.]
GM: Yes, I guess it was Jack. Gosh, I don’t know! I couldn’t believe it was Jack.
MH: He had his brother, George ─
GM: Was it Jack’s brother [who] did that, or Jack?
MH: It was Jack, supposedly. George was his brother.
GM: George was [very] nice. He came up to the house once or twice. She never did, but when I went down there once or twice, she came out and visited with me. Their ranch was kind of down by the Snyders.
MH: Yes.
GM: They had two or three cute little [children] down there.
MH: Did you ever go to a dance at Bundyville?
GM: No. [Laughter]
MH: Why not?
GM: I don’t know. Reed did.
MH: Really?
GM: Yes, he had fun!
MH: Without you?
GM: This was before my day. Who was it that he said he went over there with? Somebody. They went two or three times. I don’t think it was “Buster” but it was somebody out there [who] was living [at] “Slim’s” or somewhere. Yes, he went out [there]. Reed loved [the] Bundyville people out there. They never had a birthday party that we weren’t invited to [attend]. They would have them down here in [St. George in] the wards. It was so [much] fun to go to their parties.
[END OF TAPE – SIDE TWO]
Description
Grace (Shumway) Mathis was interviewed on February 21, 2006, in St. George, Washington County, Utah by Milton Hokanson, a representative of the Grand Canyon-Parashant National Monument Oral History Project. She related her experiences living on the Arizona Strip, Mohave County, Arizona.
Credit
NPS
Date Created
02/21/2006
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