Oral History Interview with JoAnn Birch

Transcript

Transcript

[Pause 00:00 – 00:07] Oloye Adeyemon: Brown versus Board oral history collection, Washington, DC school segregation/desegregation interviews. Interviewee? JoAnne Birvh: JoAnne Birch. Oloye Adeyemon: JoAnne Birch. Interviewer Oloye Adeyemon for the National Park Service. Interview conducted in the home of Mrs. Barbara Walker in Washington, DC on July 22nd, sorry, 23rd, 2001. These interviews are made possible through the Brown versus Board Oral History Research Project, funded by the National Park Service for the summer of 2001, as part of the Brown versus Board of Education National Historic Site Oral History Project. Mrs. Birch? JoAnne Birvh: Yes? Oloye Adeyemon: What is your full name? JoAnne Birvh: JoAnne Dodson Birch. Oloye Adeyemon: And what’s your date of birth? JoAnne Birvh: October 8th, 1949. Oloye Adeyemon: And what is your birth place? JoAnne Birvh: Washington, DC. Oloye Adeyemon: And what were your parents’ names? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, Joseph Norman Dodson and Althea Neal Dodson. Oloye Adeyemon: What did they do for a living? JoAnne Birvh: My dad was an allergist and my mother taught at one time. Uh, after I was born she stopped teaching. Oloye Adeyemon: Medical doctor? JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Yes. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh, what—do you have brothers and sisters? JoAnne Birvh: I have two older sisters. Barbara Dodson Walker and Jean Dodson Jackson. Oloye Adeyemon: And what is your occupation? JoAnne Birvh: I’m a teacher and I teach mathematics Oloye Adeyemon: How long have you taught? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, since 1971. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm. And what school are you teaching at now? JoAnne Birvh: Um, I’m currently teaching at Benjamin Tasker Middle School in Prince George’s County. Oloye Adeyemon: Did you ever teach in Washington, DC? JoAnne Birvh: Yes I did. I started teaching in Washington in 1971. Oloye Adeyemon: Until [unintelligible 02:02]? JoAnne Birvh: Um, 1982. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm, ’82. Do you have children in the Washington, DC system? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, no. My daughter, uh, attends Elizabeth Seton High School in Bladensburg, Maryland. Catholic high school. Oloye Adeyemon: Did she ever go to DC schools? JoAnne Birvh: No, she did not. We lived in PG County since I got married in 1983. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Uh, where did you, uh, get your training as a teacher? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, DC Teachers College. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm. JoAnne Birvh: Which is now part of, uh, UDC. Oloye Adeyemon: It’s now part of the University of the District of Columbia? JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: What was it—at that time it was a separate institution? JoAnne Birvh: Yes, it was. Oloye Adeyemon: Called? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, DC Teachers College. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh, what was it called prior to that? JoAnne Birvh: Miner— Oloye Adeyemon: Miner. JoAnne Birvh: - Teachers College. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm. And how did it change from Miner to? JoAnne Birvh: I have no idea. Oloye Adeyemon: At one time Miner was a segregated, uh, teachers college [crosstalk 02:53]. JoAnne Birvh: Yes, it was. Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: What, uh, was the, uh, elementary school that you went to [unintelligible 02:59]? JoAnne Birvh: Jackson Elementary School in Georgetown. Oloye Adeyemon: In Georgetown. Uh, your family lived in Georgetown? JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. Uh, at the time that you were going to school, uh, there were several areas of Washington that had blacks right? JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh, Georgetown was one. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh, the northwest was one. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh, were there also black people in the other sections of [unintelligible 03:26]? JoAnne Birvh: Oh yes. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So the Georgetown, uh, schools that you went to, were the conditions there you would say the same as they woulda been in other areas of the northwest or in the southeast? JoAnne Birvh: No. I’m sure they weren’t. Oloye Adeyemon: How were they different? JoAnne Birvh: Well, the school that I went to was, um—well, of course prior to 1954 was all white. It was very clean. Um, I’m sure the teachers were better trained than those, uh, in other areas of DC where there were predominantly black people in. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And were your—now, you’re starting in ’54. JoAnne Birvh: I started in 1954. Oloye Adeyemon: What year did they integrate the schools in Washington? JoAnne Birvh: 1954. Oloye Adeyemon: So you started the very year that— JoAnne Birvh: I started that year. Oloye Adeyemon: As a result of the Brown versus Board school court case. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: And you were going into the schools at a time when there had not been an opportunity for people to get used to it so it was fresh and brand new. JoAnne Birvh: It was very fresh. Oloye Adeyemon: The school that you went to, uh, had been previously all white. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Had there been a black elementary school in Georgetown? JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Uh, Phillips down on M Street I think. Oloye Adeyemon: How did you happen not to go there and go to, uh, the white school instead? JoAnne Birvh: My parents decision. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: Uh, they originally wanted me to go to a Catholic school and at the time there were no openings. I think there was only one and that was in northeast. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: My mother didn’t drive and since my father was a doctor and he was going all the time, there was no transportation. So, uh— Oloye Adeyemon: So you could not go to the further. The Catholic school was further away. JoAnne Birvh: Right. Right. So, um, I think, according to my mother, it was basically her decision— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: - that I go to Jackson instead of Phillips. Oloye Adeyemon: Was Jackson the closest school to you? JoAnne Birvh: No. Oloye Adeyemon: But the-the— JoAnne Birvh: Phillips, the school— Oloye Adeyemon: The black elementary school was closer. JoAnne Birvh: Right, was closest. Oloye Adeyemon: What were the reasons for wanting you to go there instead of Phillips [unintelligible 05:29]? JoAnne Birvh: To be honest with you, I have no idea. My mother just told me she decided that she was gonna walk me up the hill to Jackson. Oloye Adeyemon: When the integr—when, uh, integration took place, what percentage of whites came to Phillips? JoAnne Birvh: I don’t think any at all. Oloye Adeyemon: So Phillips remained segregated and the Jackson school became integrated. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. And how many blacks were there in the—percentagewise approximately? JoAnne Birvh: Ooh. Oloye Adeyemon: In the school at that time. JoAnne Birvh: I’d say less than five percent when I started. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So it really wasn’t a comm—it wasn’t combining the populations of the schools. Just a few children were sent. JoAnne Birvh: Just a few. Oloye Adeyemon: And was this, um—now, was-was it the case since you were coming from a school closer to you, passing it to go, was, um, was it—were any of the black children in Georgetown able to go to any of the white schools they chose to go to? JoAnne Birvh: Um, several of ’em just went to Jackson with me. Jackson— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm. Even though there was a closer school. JoAnne Birvh: Uh, yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So there wasn’t—it wasn’t-wasn’t required that—in other words this was not a systematic process. JoAnne Birvh: I don’t think so. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. JoAnne Birvh: I don’t think so. Oloye Adeyemon: Just kind of choice. JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Now again, this is the point when it’s just beginning. JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: I don’t know if you remember you know when you first started school, but how long were you at Jackson? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, the entire time from kindergarten to sixth grade. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. Did the percentages remain low like they were when you started? JoAnne Birvh: No. They increased. Oloye Adeyemon: To about what percentage by the time you left? JoAnne Birvh: Hmm. See, it was such a small school. Um, maybe 30 percent. Oloye Adeyemon: Thirty percent [unintelligible 07:19]. JoAnne Birvh: Yeah. Oloye Adeyemon: When you say small, how large? JoAnne Birvh: When I first started we had, uh, they had double grades. They had a first and second grade, a third and fourth, a fifth and sixth, kindergarten. And— Oloye Adeyemon: Combined? JoAnne Birvh: Combined. And then as more children came in, then they started to get more teachers. Oloye Adeyemon: Are you sayin’ there was only one first and second grade class [crosstalk 07:40]? JoAnne Birvh: One first and second grade. Oloye Adeyemon: Combined. JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. As far as I remember. Oloye Adeyemon: Oh, so it was a real small school. JoAnne Birvh: Yeah, it was very small. Oloye Adeyemon: Was Phillips that—population at Phillips that [unintelligible 07:48]? JoAnne Birvh: You know, I don’t really know that much about Phillips. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So when you were there how far back can you remember the experiences and what were they like? JoAnne Birvh: Um, the first few years were fine. Like kindergarten, first, second, third grade. It wasn’t until around fourth grade that I started to notice some differences. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Do you think those differences were there earlier and you just hadn’t noticed? JoAnne Birvh: They probably were. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. What differences did you notice by the time you got in the fourth grade? JoAnne Birvh: Um, well, the teachers-the teachers were not very nice. Uh, they-they used to do things that were—they were mean. Oloye Adeyemon: Such as? JoAnne Birvh: Um, they would say things to, uh, the black kids. They call ’em stupid, idiots. Uh, they told ’em they couldn’t do anything. They didn’t have any business being there. Um, things like that. Oloye Adeyemon: So they weren’t just mean. This was something that was directed at black students. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: This was not—they didn’t act this way toward the white students. JoAnne Birvh: Oh no. Hm-mmm. No. Definitely not. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. How did that affect their, uh, grading of the-of the black students? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, it affected it quite a bit. Um, we basically were always marked down. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Now, did you have a way of determining the impact? I know you were young. But I mean did you-did you—is there any way that you-you—anything you can remember that would point out, uh, the difference? In other words, do you remember, um, being able to do the work, say, that a white student did and didn’t get the same grade? JoAnne Birvh: Oh sure. Oloye Adeyemon: Did you—were you aware of what grades, say, white students were getting that were doing the same work? JoAnne Birvh: Yeah. Mm-hmm. [Laughter] Oloye Adeyemon: How much difference would you say? How much-how much were you being impacted by that? How much were-were the grades you were getting a reflection— JoAnne Birvh: They were getting-they were getting As and Bs and we were getting Cs, Ds, or failing. Uh, quite a few were retained. Oloye Adeyemon: And you know for a fact that the students were performing at the same level. JoAnne Birvh: Oh sure. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Were the whites aware of that? The white students. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. In fact, um, on several occasions, um, some of my friends, my white friends, used to speak up for me. Because I know the teacher and one in particular, my fifth and sixth grade teacher, um, was very mean. Very nasty. And for some reason she targeted me. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: Uh— Oloye Adeyemon: You were not the only black student in the class? JoAnne Birvh: I was not the only black, but she-she would target me. Oloye Adeyemon: Were you a good student? JoAnne Birvh: I thought I was. Uh, my mother was, um, always preparing me ahead of time. Um, we used to go down, there was a place called Lowdermilks downtown where you could purchase textbooks. And my mother and I would go down every summer, buy all the reading books, workbooks, whatever, and work through in summer. ’Cause they always told my parents I couldn’t read. Oloye Adeyemon: Did you get—what-what—though—some grading is subjective. But what about tests that you took where it was either a right answer or a wrong answer? What happened in those cases? JoAnne Birvh: They marked—if it was right they marked it wrong sometimes. Oloye Adeyemon: Really? JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. And of course I knew that it was [crosstalk 11:08]. Oloye Adeyemon: Did-did your mother ever-ever catch them doing it? JoAnne Birvh: Oh they-they-they went up and talked to them. And of course they had some kind of an excuse about how oh, we’re sorry, we didn’t duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. And you know— Oloye Adeyemon: It was a mistake, in other words. JoAnne Birvh: It was a mistake, yeah. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. The white students that—when they would speak up for you, what was the reaction of the teacher? Did they have any repercussions for speakin’ up for you? JoAnne Birvh: Not that I can remember. Um— Oloye Adeyemon: How would the teachers react since it was obvious even to the white students that they were prejudiced? JoAnne Birvh: I think this one teacher in particular tried to just play it off. You know she would just say, “Oh. Well, she said it differently. She didn’t say exactly the way you said it. You said it perfectly.” And, um, you know she said it-she said it differently. So I didn’t accept her answer. Oloye Adeyemon: Did you—again, did you-did you—so what you’re saying is that, um, there—the black students were—let me back up. The-the black population of Georgetown, many of them were professionals right? JoAnne Birvh: Mm. Some. Most of them. Oloye Adeyemon: [Unintelligible 12:20]. JoAnne Birvh: Most of them. Oloye Adeyemon: So we’re talking about children that are coming from homes, black children— JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: - coming from homes where people read, there’s newspapers— JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: - there’s books. JoAnne Birvh: Oh yes. Oh yes. Oloye Adeyemon: And therefore you know the experience that some black children have going to school where they haven’t—hasn’t been a lot of reading and that type of thing— JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: - that’s not the case here. JoAnne Birvh: No, no. Hm-mmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So that would make it, uh, a little different than in a situation where a black child might’ve been coming to a school— JoAnne Birvh: That’s right. Without— Oloye Adeyemon: - without—and without anyone at home to help them. JoAnne Birvh: That’s right. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So this is—this makes this a little bit different. JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: You know, where you-where not only are you remembering the work that the black students did being comparable to what the white students did— JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: - but even the background of the children was comparable. JoAnne Birvh: That’s-that’s right. That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Um, did that ever come to a head? I mean you’re going through six years of this. Did it ever come to a head? JoAnne Birvh: When it did, um, I had left Jackson. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So you left before you left sixth grade? JoAnne Birvh: No. I finished and then I went on to junior high school. Oloye Adeyemon: Public? JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. And that’s when it all—everything that had gone on previously came to a head suddenly. Oloye Adeyemon: It got noticed? It continued? JoAnne Birvh: Well, at that time, uh, they had a system called tracking. Oloye Adeyemon: Let me back up. JoAnne Birvh: Okay. Oloye Adeyemon: So you’re saying six years after desegregation of the schools— JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Black students were still suffering in the classroom in these integrated schools? JoAnne Birvh: [Laughter] Yes. [Laughter] Oloye Adeyemon: What percentage of black teachers were at Jackson during those years? JoAnne Birvh: None. Oloye Adeyemon: None. So what students were allowed to go to—black students were allowed to go to the white schools, but black teachers, the schools were not integrated as far as the teaching staff. JoAnne Birvh: No. Oloye Adeyemon: Hmm. JoAnne Birvh: I didn’t see a black teacher until I got to college. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. And throughout this whole period the black schools are still entirely black? They’re not—white students are not being sent to the black schools. JoAnne Birvh: Not-not during the time that I was in elementary school. That came later. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. And that was busing. JoAnne Birvh: That was busing. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Uh, before we go on to junior high, what was the reaction of the parents of the white students to your being in school? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, I had no problems. Uh, a lot of my—a lot of the kids in the neighborhood, uh, were white and they were my friends. Oloye Adeyemon: They were your friends from—you said from the neighborhood. There were white children in your neighborhood that were going to Jackson? JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So you were already friends. JoAnne Birvh: We were already friends. Oloye Adeyemon: You’re friends independent. JoAnne Birvh: Yeah. Oloye Adeyemon: And it was no problem. JoAnne Birvh: No problem. Oloye Adeyemon: No problems between you and the children, no problems between your parents and their parents? JoAnne Birvh: Nope. We played at each other’s homes, we, um, did all— Oloye Adeyemon: So that made it all the more, uh—it made it—it makes it stand out all the more that the teachers in this particular case, at least for the ones that resistant to these changes— JoAnne Birvh: Yes. They were very, very resistant. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: Very resistant. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. You went to junior high school what year? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, it was 1960, ’61, somethin’ like that. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. What year did they start busing? JoAnne Birvh: I have no idea. Oloye Adeyemon: Was it while you were in junior high school? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, not that I can remember. Oloye Adeyemon: While you were in high school? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, maybe so. Because when I started teaching, maybe prior to that, they had started busing children from southeast Washington over to the elementary school that I went to in Georgetown. Oloye Adeyemon: Now, these would’ve been black children? JoAnne Birvh: Black children. Oloye Adeyemon: Were they also busing white children to the black schools? JoAnne Birvh: No. Not that-not that I can recall. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. JoAnne Birvh: And the reason they were— Oloye Adeyemon: So the white schools were being integrated, but not the black schools. JoAnne Birvh: No. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. At what point—you-you did say that you didn’t see any black teachers until you got to college. JoAnne Birvh: To college. Oloye Adeyemon: To your knowledge— JoAnne Birvh: Ooh, now I take that back. Wait a minute, I take that back. I didn’t have any in junior high school. There may have been some at the junior high school, but I didn’t have any. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. JoAnne Birvh: I take that back. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Now, what junior high school did you go to? JoAnne Birvh: Gordon Junior High. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. And where was that located? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, 35th and S? T. In Georgetown. Oloye Adeyemon: Now let me back up. Where was Jackson located? JoAnne Birvh: Jackson was at 30th and R. So, uh, Gordon was just a few blocks up from that. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. And where was Phillips? JoAnne Birvh: Phillips was at 20—you’ll have to ask my sister, 28th and M I think. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. And where’d you live? JoAnne Birvh: 27th and P. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. JoAnne Birvh: So it was just a couple of blocks. Phillips was just a couple of blocks down the street from us. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Now when you went to junior high school, you had to walk? JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Uh, there was no transportation provided at all in the DC system? JoAnne Birvh: No. Hm-mmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. So whites and blacks had to walk to school. JoAnne Birvh: Walked it, right. Oloye Adeyemon: Now that you’re going to junior high school, um, this is-this was previously a white junior high? JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Had you gone to Phillips, what junior high would you have gone to? JoAnne Birvh: I think Francis Junior High School. Oloye Adeyemon: Was that in Georgetown? JoAnne Birvh: No. That was at 25th and N. It’s on the outskirts of Foggy Bottom area. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Okay. And was that a black area? JoAnne Birvh: It was black. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. So you were—you-you—when you went to junior high school, uh, how did that compare to your experience in elementary school? JoAnne Birvh: Oh, far worse. Oloye Adeyemon: Far worse. JoAnne Birvh: Uh-huh. Because as I said before, um, they had a system called tracking and they would put you in certain classes. And that’s where you stayed. So when I got to Gordon Junior High School, I was in a very low-level section of kids. Oloye Adeyemon: Why? Was that based on testing [crosstalk 18:34]? JoAnne Birvh: Based on whatever they sent from my elementary school. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And I sat for one entire year and did absolutely nothing. I had white teachers who did nothing. They stood in front of us. Oloye Adeyemon: Now, what—just because it’s tracking [clears throat] the school is integrated, but the classes are segregated? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, there were maybe a couple of white kids in the class with us. Oloye Adeyemon: Who really might not’ve been able to perform. JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: But many of the black students were there for no other reason than the fact that they were black? JoAnne Birvh: No. There-there were kids in there who really couldn’t do the work. Oloye Adeyemon: But there were some in there that should not have been in there. JoAnne Birvh: Yeah. Like me. [Laughter] Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And so was this a systematic problem that blacks experienced at junior high? JoAnne Birvh: It-it was a systematic problem. Um, they-they typically, as far as back as I can remember now, typically tracked the black kids in lower tracks. So we really didn’t get very much. And once you were in that track, you stayed there all the way through. There was apparently no way out. Oloye Adeyemon: What kinds of grades were you getting when you were in that track? JoAnne Birvh: Well, you know, the grades were-were okay because I was— Oloye Adeyemon: [Crosstalk 19:45] really challenging. JoAnne Birvh: No. Because I was really one of the few that could read. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And, you know, do mathematics and other things. And, um, it-it was-it was a bad situation. I cried the whole year. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm. JoAnne Birvh: Because I realized that, you know, this was not fair. They-they weren’t—the teachers weren’t teaching. They weren’t helping the kids. Oloye Adeyemon: Given your parents’ background and the obvious interest they had in your education, how did this continue for a whole year? JoAnne Birvh: They—my father went up—my father—well, my father went up and talked to them. Um, they said that there was nothing that could be done because, uh, the information that came from elementary school was-was such that this was where I belonged. They said I couldn’t read, I could do this, I couldn’t do that. Oloye Adeyemon: But now when he-when he proved that you could, wasn’t that enough to change the situation immediately? JoAnne Birvh: By that time half if the year was gone. And, um, you know, where else was I gonna go at that time? Oloye Adeyemon: When-when they finally realized it, did they acknowledge that it was unfair situation? JoAnne Birvh: The school system? Oloye Adeyemon: Yes, the school system. JoAnne Birvh: Oh no. Of course not. Oloye Adeyemon: So the people, the administration of the school, did they just ignore the fact that you could read? I mean what? JoAnne Birvh: They simply said this is the deal, she’s in this track, zoom, that’s it. Oloye Adeyemon: But she’s in this track ’cause she can’t read. You can read. JoAnne Birvh: I can read. Oloye Adeyemon: Why are you still in this track? JoAnne Birvh: Well, they-they kept goin’ back to the so-called test grades and whatever was sent from elementary school, from that-that fifth and sixth grade teacher that I had the last two years I was there. Oloye Adeyemon: Were there other children in the junior high school that had a similar experience to yours? JoAnne Birvh: Hmm. You know, I can’t—I don’t really know. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm. JoAnne Birvh: I-I-I just spent the whole year misery. So as far as I was concerned, I was just tryin’ to just go to school every day, do what I had to do, and get home. Oloye Adeyemon: Was your mother continuing to work with you on subjects? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, yes she was. But, uh, she didn’t-she didn’t—she wasn’t involved as much—involved as she was when I was in elementary school. In elementary school she volunteered all the time, she was at school all the time. The junior high school was a little different. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So what was the outcome? How-how did this resolve itself? JoAnne Birvh: I-I cried and cried and cried and begged and pleaded. Please, I cannot go back, please find somewhere else for me to go. And my father finally, you know, got on the phone and started calling around to Catholic schools to see what he could do. And by that time they were all crowded. And he found one, Sacred Heart down at 16th and Park Row. And Sister Richard Dean, bless her little heart, said— Oloye Adeyemon: What? Who? JoAnne Birvh: Sister Richard Dean was the principal at that time. She said, “Just bring her on in.” And I just went. It was a few days before— Oloye Adeyemon: Were there black teachers at the Catholic schools at the time? JoAnne Birvh: No. All the nuns were white. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. So the, um, Catholic schools were also integrated? JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So this was a predominantly white school. JoAnne Birvh: It was predomi—mm. It was a nice mixture. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. What was the—where was this located? JoAnne Birvh: At 16th and Park Row Northwest. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So how did you get to school then? JoAnne Birvh: I took the bus. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So you are now in that environment. Have you—how has it in-how’s-how’s—what year was this? What grade? JoAnne Birvh: Mm. This was eighth grade. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. So you’ve had eight years of public education where not only have you not gotten all the encouragement that you could, you’ve actually gotten discouragement— JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: - and actually had things done— JoAnne Birvh: That’s correct. Oloye Adeyemon: - to, uh, not help lift your self-esteem, but to put you down. JoAnne Birvh: That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: So after eight years of that, uh, how much were you-were you-were you performing at a lower level than other eighth graders or the ninth graders at the Catholic school? JoAnne Birvh: Oh. Sure. Because, um, I mean the whole seventh grade, the whole year that I was in seventh grade at Gordon, we didn’t do anything. And when I got to Sacred Heart, a lot of those kids had been there since first grade. And Catholic school is much more rigorous. And it took me I know six months to try to catch up. Because a lot of the things that they were doing I had never seen before. Oloye Adeyemon: How did you do catchin’ up? JoAnne Birvh: Um, I-I managed. I-I did manage. Um, it was-it was hard, but it was something that I wanted to do. Because I knew there was no way I was goin’ back to a public school. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: Under no circumstances. Oloye Adeyemon: How long did it take you to get to the point where you were comfortable at the same level of instruction everyone else was at at the school? JoAnne Birvh: Like I said, it-it took me almost the-the whole—almost the whole school year. Oloye Adeyemon: Right. Did your parents help? JoAnne Birvh: Oh yeah. Yeah. Oloye Adeyemon: So you actually not only ended up performing at the level that the students at the Catholic school were performing, but you had to do that while overcoming that obstacle— JoAnne Birvh: That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: - and you were able to do that. JoAnne Birvh: I was able to do it. Oloye Adeyemon: So that would definitely, uh, suggest that there was nothing wrong with your ability at all. JoAnne Birvh: Oh no. It was nothing wrong. There was nothing wrong with me. Oloye Adeyemon: You know, I mean that-that—I mean— JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: - you’re going into a situation where the students have been challenged all along. JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: You’ve not had that. You’ve not-you’ve not worked [unintelligible 25:21] with the same level. Yet you, uh, catch up with them while in the class with them. JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: That-that says a lot. JoAnne Birvh: And-and it was not easy because the nuns then were very strict. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And, um, you know I was afraid to ask questions. I was afraid. But I, you know, I finally felt comfortable and asked. They were very nice. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: In fact there was one nun, I’ll never forget her, she was a big lady [laughter] and I was scared to death of this one. Oloye Adeyemon: Who was that? JoAnne Birvh: Sister Jacques. Sister Mary Jacques. And, uh, but she turned out to be, uh, you know, a very nice lady. But they were all, you know, they made me very comfortable, uh- Oloye Adeyemon: They disciplined you didn’t they? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, if you needed to be yes. Oh. Yeah, yeah. I-I did get a lot that I never got in public school. Oloye Adeyemon: Whacks? JoAnne Birvh: Pardon? Oloye Adeyemon: They whacks? They whacked you? JoAnne Birvh: [Laughter] No. I wasn’t that bad. The-the boys were now. They-they didn’t mind, right on the knuckles. Oloye Adeyemon: [Laughter] JoAnne Birvh: Yeah. But, um, they-they really made me feel comfortable. Oloye Adeyemon: So it worked out well, but it was traumatic. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Yes. But I was very thankful for it. I was very thankful. I mean I didn’t mind havin’ to get up and take two buses to get to school and you know— Oloye Adeyemon: So school was never a problem for you. JoAnne Birvh: No. Oloye Adeyemon: It was just the conditions that— JoAnne Birvh: It was the conditions. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Have you spoken to other people as an adult that other blacks that went to school during that period, about that period? Have you ever shared your experiences with other black students? JoAnne Birvh: No. I don’t talk about this. [Laughter] Oloye Adeyemon: I know. JoAnne Birvh: I do not. Oloye Adeyemon: [Crosstalk 27:01] JoAnne Birvh: The only-the only time I do say something is, uh, I-I-I tell some of my students. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: Because one of the reason—well, the reason that I’m teaching is because of that one woman that I had in fifth and sixth grade. Oloye Adeyemon: So in other words, you were not inspired to teach by her through encouragement. JoAnne Birvh: No. Because of the way— Oloye Adeyemon: But—because of the negative— JoAnne Birvh: That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: - behavior that— JoAnne Birvh: I figured there had to be a better way— Oloye Adeyemon: Hmm. JoAnne Birvh: - for children to learn and to be taught. Oloye Adeyemon: So that’s an interesting twist. Uh, most of the people who were inspired to teach were inspired— JoAnne Birvh: No, I wasn’t inspired by them. Oloye Adeyemon: - to teach by good teachers. JoAnne Birvh: No, no. Oloye Adeyemon: You were inspired to teach by an awful teacher. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Many of them. [Laughter] JoAnne Birvh: Many of them. Oloye Adeyemon: That’s a twist. JoAnne Birvh: Yeah. Well, you know, I-I started workin’ with the little kids, um, when I was about 13 on the playground. And this was something that I wanted to do and my father, God rest his soul, find somethin’ else to do. Please. Don’t-don’t teach. Do anything else but teach. Don’t teach. And I—you know, every now and then I think about it. And I tell my kids I’m writing a book. Oloye Adeyemon: Are you writing a book? JoAnne Birvh: No. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. JoAnne Birvh: Tell the kids I’m writin’ a book. What’s it called? My father said don’t teach. And they start laughin’ and say, “Why?” I said, “You wanna know why?” Oloye Adeyemon: Do you have any regrets? JoAnne Birvh: Mm. Not really. There are-there are times. Oloye Adeyemon: It’s difficult, though, isn’t it? JoAnne Birvh: It’s difficult. But it’s-it’s-it’s rewarding. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: The kids don’t appreciate you when they have you. They appreciate you down the road. In fact, I have one student, former student, call me a couple of years ago. He was graduatin’ from high school. And it was like almost the last day of school. And he said, “Mrs. Birch.” I said, “Yes.” “This is Francisco Capet 28:55. Do you remember me?” Oloye Adeyemon: What was his name? JoAnne Birvh: Francisco Capet. I said, “Yes, dear, I remember you.” “Mrs. Birch, I’m calling because I just want to apologize to you.” He said, “I’ve been thinkin’ about you ever since I left.” He said, “I am so sorry I was such a jerk and-and-and,” duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. He said, “If I had only listened to you.” He said, “I-I really—when I got to high school, everything you told us was true.” Oloye Adeyemon: What grade did you have him? JoAnne Birvh: I had him in the eighth grade. Oloye Adeyemon: And he remembered you all the way through [unintelligible 29:28]? JoAnne Birvh: Oh yeah. Oloye Adeyemon: Was he a white student? JoAnne Birvh: No. He was black student. And he was, um— Oloye Adeyemon: What was his name? JoAnne Birvh: Francisco Capet. He was a-he was a-he was a-a handful, I will admit. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: But I thought it was—but he just—15 minutes, he just went on to apol—I said, “Francis, [unintelligible 29:43] it’s okay.” He was on his way to college, he was gonna play football, he was gonna major in electrical engineering. And he was just so thankful. He said, “Now tell the kids if you have Mrs. Birch, please listen to her. She’s telling you the truth. She’s straight up. She’s mean, but she’s fair.” So, you know, and that kinda made my day. ’Cause I’d had a bad year that year. And, you know, it-it made my, you know. But I always run into kids who, you know, they thank you after the fact. Some of them, you know, do while they’re there. But most of them—’cause middle school is kinda dicey anyway. Oloye Adeyemon: Yeah. It sure is. JoAnne Birvh: They’re up and down. Oloye Adeyemon: So going back to your experience in the DC schools, ’cause you did teach for a short time. JoAnne Birvh: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Um, by the time that you came outta college and now teaching, uh, had-had—how have things changed? Have they changed and if so how? From the time you were in school. JoAnne Birvh: Well, of course by that time the schools were predominantly black. Oloye Adeyemon: Even schools that had— JoAnne Birvh: Except for the schools west of the park, on this end of the city. They were still predominantly white. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And that’s when they started busing. In fact, uh, most of the schools were so small— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: - that they had to bus kids in to keep them open. Oloye Adeyemon: Most of the white schools. JoAnne Birvh: Yeah, white schools. To keep them— Oloye Adeyemon: Because of the white flight. JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And I’m sure— Oloye Adeyemon: Did the schools desegregation have somethin’ to do with the white flight or was it just a change in housing? JoAnne Birvh: I think basically it was a change in housing. A lot of white were moving to the suburbs. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And of course the blacks were still, you know, were in town. Oloye Adeyemon: All right. I ask that because we just came from South Carolina where the whites literally left the school system totally. And then moved into other districts that were less predominantly black. This was in Summerton, South Carolina. JoAnne Birvh: Well, that’s probably what it was. Um, but, um, you know, things did change. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Were there a lot of white private schools opening during that period as a way of preventing [unintelligible 31:47]? Avoiding having to send white children to black schools or— JoAnne Birvh: Oh sure. Sure. Oloye Adeyemon: So there were some that might not’ve existed before that that were opened around that time. JoAnne Birvh: They were opened. They-they-they had always been there. They had always been there. Oloye Adeyemon: Now, what are some of the challenges? There—I understand that the Washington, DC school system has had difficulties. JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. [Laughter] Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Can you share with me, you know, what has been going on? What some of the difficulties have been. I understand there was a-a takeover of the schools or somethin’. Can you explain to us what-what occurred and why? JoAnne Birvh: Well, um, that happened after I left. Um— Oloye Adeyemon: While you were there, who ran the DC schools while you were teaching? JoAnne Birvh: [Laughter] Uh, let’s see. Vincent Reed was one superintendent. Oloye Adeyemon: Was it-was it run as a-as a— JoAnne Birvh: [Crosstalk 32:51] Oloye Adeyemon: - it—help me. Because I understand that Congress has something to do with some of the municipal services. I’m not sure. Can you explain to us were the-were the schools run by a city government? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, I guess on [unintelligible 33:09] uh, the elected, uh, elected school board came in, then they had some say in what was going on. They hired superintendent— Oloye Adeyemon: Now you said when they came in. That had not always been the case? JoAnne Birvh: No. Oloye Adeyemon: When did that start? JoAnne Birvh: I don’t know. Oloye Adeyemon: Were you in school? JoAnne Birvh: I was teaching. Oloye Adeyemon: You were teaching. JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So up until—throughout the time you were in school, there was no school board. JoAnne Birvh: Not that I can remember. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Now, during that time how were the schools managed? Who-who—how—who oversaw the schools? JoAnne Birvh: There was a superintendent. Now, who it was I don’t-I don’t remember. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. When—okay. The school board was elected. I guess the question I’m asking, hasn’t there been kind of a tug of war between local control of the schools and outside, uh, control? And hasn’t— JoAnne Birvh: That’s been-that’s been recently. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. When did that start? What was that about? JoAnne Birvh: Now, see, you’re askin’ me? I live in PG County now. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. JoAnne Birvh: I don’t really, um—I don’t pay that much attention to what goes on in DC. Oloye Adeyemon: But there has been a struggle. JoAnne Birvh: There has been a struggle. Uh, the school board had a problem, uh, uh, the control board, they-they hired some people to come in and to over— Oloye Adeyemon: Now what’s the control board? JoAnne Birvh: They were-they were brought in to— Oloye Adeyemon: By who? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, Congress I think. Oloye Adeyemon: That’s what I thought. I think so. JoAnne Birvh: And just to the city period. It wasn’t just the school system. It was the city. And of course they dipped in the school, uh, with the school situation. Uh, they brought in a gentleman who was a, um, an Army general I think he was, to run the school system. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And that didn’t work. Oloye Adeyemon: Why? JoAnne Birvh: Um, basically he didn’t—really didn’t have an educational background so to speak. He had that military background. And unfortunately with a lot of, um, systems they think that people with that type of background can come in and take charge and run things. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: But you still need to have— Oloye Adeyemon: Educational. JoAnne Birvh: - background in order to, um, you know, make it work. So he didn’t stay around long. Oloye Adeyemon: What was the problem-what was the problem with the DC schools? What-what-what has been the problem? JoAnne Birvh: I think with-with all the schools everywhere, uh, we’re finding that more and more people are coming into education who really don’t want to teach. They’re just there. And, um, they’re-they’re coming in, they’re not prepared to teach. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: Uh, the one thing that I can say about DC Public Schools when I was teaching here, um, the-the training that I got at DC Teachers College— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: - and the experiences that I got, uh, doing student teaching in the schools and then actually teaching— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: - uh, prepared me for I can teach anywhere. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Are you saying that that training and preparation changed and it’s not as stringent? JoAnne Birvh: It’s not as stringent anymore. I don’t even think that, um, when I see DC Teachers, and uh, Federal City College and there was another college, merged and formed University of DC, and, um, the-the teachers college just became a department. Department of education— Oloye Adeyemon: Instead of a separate school? JoAnne Birvh: Uh-huh, instead of a separate school. And, uh, we started noticing then that— Oloye Adeyemon: The changes. JoAnne Birvh: The changes. The-the teachers that were coming through were not as well trained as we were. Oloye Adeyemon: And a lot of the DC teachers got their training there. JoAnne Birvh: Not necessarily. They—we’ve all had problems recruiting teachers. So they’re coming from all over the-the country and outside. Oloye Adeyemon: But at least you did see a change in the-in the teachers— JoAnne Birvh: I did see a change. Oloye Adeyemon: - in the teachers that were being produced and sent out of that particular school. JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: With the testing and the-the focus on testing, has that had any impact on the teachers’ ability to do their job? JoAnne Birvh: Oh, yes. [Laughter] That’s a sore spot. Um, if they would just leave us alone and let us teach, the kids would be far better off. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: But unfortunately the powers that be come up with tests and say this is what you’re gonna do, you do this, that, and the other. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And— Oloye Adeyemon: What-what are the tests designed to—what-what are they trying to do with the testing? JoAnne Birvh: [Laughter] I have no idea. Oloye Adeyemon: What do they say they’re trying to do? I mean what is-what is the testing looking at? What is it-what is it measuring? Or trying to measure. JoAnne Birvh: It depends on what type test you’re talking about. If you’re talkin’ about just a standardized test— Oloye Adeyemon: The-the-the testing that-that-that— JoAnne Birvh: Or type. Oloye Adeyemon: - they’ve recently instituted where, uh, the school— JoAnne Birvh: The standards of learning, things like that? [Unintelligible 38:11]. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: [Laughter] Hmm. I’m askin’ this question when we finish. Um, [laughter] uh, men—well, in Prince George’s County the state of Maryland, the state of Maryland, it’s designed to see how well the schools are doing. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: It’s not basically individual students. They’re tryin’ to see if the teachers are teaching, if the principal is doing their job, and duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: Uh, the tests are quite interesting. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: To say the least. And there’s a-a big—it was a big push. We do a lot of writing, uh, fewer—less time teaching basic skills. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: But more geared towards teaching to prepare the kids for this test. Oloye Adeyemon: So you’re not really preparing the teachers—uh, not preparing students in terms of academic achievement. You’re-you’re preparing them to take a test so that the school can be measured. JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: And has—how has that impacted on teachers? I understand [crosstalk 39:42]. JoAnne Birvh: Oh man. [Crosstalk 39:25] get into trouble. [Laughter] I’m sorry. What did you say? Oloye Adeyemon: Why? JoAnne Birvh: What-what did you say? Oloye Adeyemon: You know, I guess what I’m trying to get at is— JoAnne Birvh: I-I will tell you. The teachers on a whole are frustrated. Oloye Adeyemon: So it’s not just that it’s making it more difficult for them to do the job that they’re required to do. JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: But doesn’t that put a certain amount of pressure on— JoAnne Birvh: It’s a lot of pressure. And of course it trickles down. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm. JoAnne Birvh: You know, the superintendent gets it and then the principals get it and then we get it. And the poor babies that we have to try to teach are getting it. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm. JoAnne Birvh: So I recently switched from eighth to seventh grade. Oloye Adeyemon: For that reason? JoAnne Birvh: Uh-huh. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Does this have anything—is there any relationship between that and the integration? I mean did-did-did it have—are these connected in any way? JoAnne Birvh: Well, of course you know when they sit down and make up these tests, uh, whoever makes them up, uh, you know some of the-some of the questions are, um, worded so that a lot of our kids who are coming from, um, different areas in Prince George’s County where they’re not getting the support at home that they need as opposed to some of the-the white kids who are getting the support. And you know, they’re-they’re experiencing things that—it’s-it’s not quite fair. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So it-it doesn’t necessarily measure-measure their intelligence. JoAnne Birvh: No. Oloye Adeyemon: And you’re not able to-to teach your—you’re not able to devote the time that you might need to-to bring them up in areas where they-where they need extra help. JoAnne Birvh: That’s right. That’s right. And-and that’s a big problem. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Did that have any impact on the decertification of the DC schools? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, now see, I don’t know what DC is doin’. Oloye Adeyemon: They did get decertified for a period of time, didn’t they? JoAnne Birvh: Uh, some of them may have. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: In fact, we have some schools in Prince George’s County that, you know, are under the gun. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Now— JoAnne Birvh: Because of that. Oloye Adeyemon: - when that happens, uh, is that like with colleges? Their diplomas will not mean as much. JoAnne Birvh: Uh, no. What-what they do is they bring in, uh, help from the state. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And, uh, they get extra help. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: They get extra teachers, extra money. You know, any kind of support that they need in order to try to help the teachers help the kids to bring up these scores. Oloye Adeyemon: But a student graduating from a decertified school’s not gonna— JoAnne Birvh: Well, we don’t have that situation in Prince George’s County. Where, you know, it-it would affect, um, anybody graduating from high school. Oloye Adeyemon: In some places I know they now, um, give one type of certificate for you being in school for a certain number of years. JoAnne Birvh: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Then they give another one that’s actually represents— JoAnne Birvh: A diploma. Oloye Adeyemon: - a diploma. Is that the case in [crosstalk 42:23]? JoAnne Birvh: Um, the only time that I know that that happens is when, um, a child has not passed certain tests that are required for high school graduation. They get a— Oloye Adeyemon: Now, these tests are unrelated to these other tests that we’re talking about? JoAnne Birvh: Yeah, they’re unrelated. But now they’re starting something new where they have, uh, let’s see, science, math, English, and social studies, they’re implementing new tests for high school students. And they have to pass those in order to graduate from high school. Oloye Adeyemon: What—looking back, reflecting on everything, how do—what-what do you feel about integration? What-what—you know, what-what is your evaluation of it all and your feelings about that—that was the good things, the bad things. You know, what-what-what’s your reflection on that? And— JoAnne Birvh: Well, because of my experience, uh, and like I said you know early on I didn’t have any problem. It wasn’t until after you know like fourth, fifth, sixth grade and so forth that I-that I noticed that, um, you know the resentment of-of the black kids being in the, um, in the schools. But you know, my feeling is we’re-we’re here. You know, we all have to learn how to get along together. Oloye Adeyemon: So you think it was a good thing that happened. JoAnne Birvh: I think it was, I think it was. Oloye Adeyemon: It just would’ve been a lot easier— JoAnne Birvh: It would’ve been a lot easier. Oloye Adeyemon: - had there not been the resistance. JoAnne Birvh: Right. Right. And I’m sure it got better after, you know, that—the first—yeah. Oloye Adeyemon: [Crosstalk 43:55] they got through with you. JoAnne Birvh: Yeah. Well, you know. And I’m sure that lady, she’s no longer living, I’m sure she’s turning over in her grave because, uh, they—Jackson School was one of the schools where they bused black kids from southeast into-to— Oloye Adeyemon: So it became a heavy concentration. Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: - to give them some population so they could keep the schools open. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And what do you feel about the future of education in the DC area? ’Cause I under-I understand it is difficult. It’s a challenge. JoAnne Birvh: You know, I-I’m thinking that I have a few more years to teach. [Laughter] then I’m ready to—I’m-I’m just tired. I-I— Oloye Adeyemon: What needs to happen? JoAnne Birvh: To be honest with you, I don’t know. Um, I-I said—I was tellin’ Barbara that I’m going back to seventh grade and I’m-I’m determined that they’re gonna learn their basic multiplication facts, they’re gonna learn how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide before I do anything else. Because these kids need—they-they haven’t gotten it in elementary school and they’re coming to middle school with so few skills in order to cover the curriculum that we have to cover. And it’s a tough curriculum. Oloye Adeyemon: And things are getting more technical and so— JoAnne Birvh: Right. Oloye Adeyemon: - it-it makes it even harder for them to compete. JoAnne Birvh: Yes, it does. Oloye Adeyemon: Once they come out of school. JoAnne Birvh: And it-and it-and-and-and our little babies need as much help and as much support as they can get. And like I said, unfortunately we find fewer and fewer people coming into the teaching field who— Oloye Adeyemon: Prepared in the way that they have to be prepared. JoAnne Birvh: Prepared. Oloye Adeyemon: Because they have to be doubly prepared. JoAnne Birvh: Prepared and who want to teach. That’s the key. Oloye Adeyemon: Because they have to be able to teach, they have to be able to respond to these tests-tests, and they have to be able to respond to these needs that the children have. JoAnne Birvh: That’s-that’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. So I don’t know what’s going to happen to-to turn everything around. Because this is all over the country. It’s not just here, it’s all over. And you know, it’s unfortunate because, um, you know I-I tell—I ran into one of my students who just graduated from college, she’s 23. And she said, “Hi, Mrs. Birch.” I said, “How you doin’, sweetie?” I never remember their names. I said hey, bye sweetie. And she said-and she said, um, she said, um, “I graduated.” I said, “Oh, good.” I said, “What are you doin’?” “Well, I have a job.” She said, “I got this offer and they were offering me $65,000 and I was tryin’ to figure out if I should take it.” And I’m standin’ there like— Oloye Adeyemon: And you’ve been teaching how long? [Laughter] JoAnne Birvh: I just made a little bit over 55. And this 23-year-old kid is askin’ me, she said, “You know, and I was tryin’ to decide should I take this job.” Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. JoAnne Birvh: And I said, “Well you know, sweetie, you do what you think you have to do.” Unbelievable. Oloye Adeyemon: Thank you. JoAnne Birvh: [Laughter] Okay. Now that’s—are we finished? Oloye Adeyemon: Yes, ma’am. JoAnne Birvh: That stuff about [unintelligible 46:47] you need to out that [unintelligible 46:48]. [End of Audio]

Description

Birch recounts her experiences and the discrimination and harassment she faced as a young African-American girl attending freshly integrated, formerly all-white, public schools. She goes on to contrast it with her experiences teaching after white flight had drastically shifted the demographics of the Washington D.C. area. Readers can gain insight as to the dramatic shifts that occurred in school districts over time as a result of the Brown v. Board of Education decision.

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