Audio
Oral History Project - Deregne, William 1980 Part 2
Transcript
Interview NRGNPP 010
File H NRGNPP OIO-T
TAPE TEN
Mr. William Derenge
Interviewer:
Paul J. Nyden
Beckley, W. Va. 25801
October 4, 1980
[The second of two reels for Interview Ten begins on top of page 10.32.]
PN: You said before, you worked at Terry for ten months?
WD: After I got out of Eccles mines, I worked at Terry.
PN: That was 1914?
WD: Well, went to work there in 1914, yea.
PN: And you were talking before…?
WD: No, I went to work at Terry in '13, rather.
PN: In ’13?
WD: Yea.
PN: That was after the…?
WD: No, no it wasn't, that's right, '14. After , after Lay land there, [correcting himself] Eccles was closing.
PN: And when you were working at Terry, was that the first time that you heard of the United Mine Workers around there?
WD: Well, it wasn't the first time I heard about it, no. I told you a while back that we left there at one time along about 1912 on account of we had this, loading with the car, they got some new cars three inches deeper than the old ones. They wanted 'em loaded for the same price. And the men balked on doing it, and they come out on strike.
PN: This is Eccles, right?
WD: Yea at Eccles.
PN: Eccles, yea.
WD: And so, I didn't want, I wasn't going to scab. So I left there then. Went out to Spring Dale and went to work in the woods. And I worked in the woods for some time. And when I come back, I worked a while at Layland. And then I went back I was dissatisfied at Lay land for some reason — and went back to Eccles and went to work. And worked at Eccles till it blown up in 19—, April 28th, 1914.
PN: Did they have a UMW local at Eccles at that time?
WD: Yea, we had local, local. That was the first, the first contract we were working under's…
PN: At Eccles?
WD: During the year 1914. They signed a contract sometime during 1913.
PN: That was the first time that Eccles had ever had a contract?
WD: That's as far as 1 know. That's all they ever had, yea.
PN: Then when you were working in Terry on the New River, was that a union mine at that time too?
WD: Had a local there, and I was, served, Committee, Mine Committee, on well two occasions I remember, probably more. And of course when I left Terry and went to Lay land, well Lay land was also a union, well in fact it was always a union mine then.
PN: What is the difference that a union would make in the day—to—day work inside the mine, would you say?
WD: Well, I know one difference it make, going back to the first contract. Used to work ten, ten days [meaning hours], and the first contract we got was for nine hours a day with the same pay. And you have to understand of course, I can't remember just what changes took place. Course it all was, got for the better, of course.
PN: Were the mines safer when they were union?
WD: The mines safer, yea. Cause they weren't going to sign a contract unless they got some concessions. I just couldn't tell them off hand, but all along the line, I remember. For one thing in particular, in the yardage. There was so much an inch for slate. And when they got a contract, they got one cent more a yard, or two cents I don't know which. Anyway, they got a little more than they'd been getting. Same way that most all the coal—loading done by hand then. You got so much, 50 cents per ton in the base seams. No, 40 cents in heavy seams and 50 for the low—seam coal. And then a year or two later, they, they reversed all that and just made it the same price.
PN: When you lived in Terry, how many houses were there there? How many people lived there?
WD: Oh, it was no big camp, but I'd say there's 75 probably.
PN: Were there many immigrant miners from Europe working in Terry then?
WD: What?
PN: Were there miners from Europe, that had come from Europe as immigrants, working in Terry? Like Italians or Polish people or Hungarians? Foreigners, were there any foreign miners?
WD: Any what?
PN: Foreigners that had come from Europe?
WD: Oh. No, I '11 say that down at Terry, about the o n1y one I knowed was one family of Italians. Most of them was, the biggest part of ‘em was Stovers. They was raised right around on Grandview Mountain. Reddens and Stovers, I’d say, might have been predominant.
PN:The who?
WD: Reddens and Stovers.
PN: what, and they were Italians?
WD: No, they're American. They was raised right around Grandview. Do you know where Grandview is?
PN: Yea.
WD: Well they was, biggest part of the men that worked there was raised around there. Well in fact, this here, well the Reddens too. Old man Redden, he was weigh boss at, up at old Royal, where I first worked, mine I worked in. He was about the only one I really, really knew when I went to Terry.
PN: Were there any Black miners at that time in Terry?
WD: I don't think there was one, no.
PN: None?
WD: I think they had, had a color line — the Wrights brothers. They owned Wrights No. 1, and No. 2 in Terry. The Lees, no, I forget, Norman Lee, and I forget the others, the managers.
PN: When you were in Terry, how did you travel. Did you have to use a train? Or were there other ways you could travel from town to town?
WD: No, the only way to travel there is, at the time, to walk up the railroad. You couldn't get in, there was no auto—, automobiles. Well, there was automobiles, but they had no way to get down to Terry, and get on the track. And you had to go up to the mines on the Incline. It was almost straight up and down. You went up on the incline and back, back down. Of course, you had a choice of walking, walking down, if you got out early in the day.
PN: Did the people that lived in Layland when you worked there, did they often go down to Prince or Quinnimont on the New River, for any reason?
WD: Oh yes, they had passenger trains there, several from Lay land, running passengers, round—trip a day.
PN: Going down to Prince?
WD: Yea.
PN: Did many people go down there?
WD: Well, not unless the circus was down in Quinnimont. Quinnimont was the headquarter for the circus Barnum and Bailey, and them.
PN: It was?
WD: Yea, and so whenever the circus [was] down in Quinnlmont, the place was crowded, And the train was crowded. And If they couldn't get to go down on, there wasn't room enough on the train, they walked only five miles. In fact, in them days, five miles wasn't, didn't mean very much.
PN: Was Quinnimont a much larger town than Lay land was?
WD: Well, Quinnimont [was] just a junction town. There's two, all in Piney Creek come to Quinnimont, and them off of Lay land another short run. Two short lines. Going to have to say their division point — there was three different railroads, the main line and two branch lines — one up Laurel Creek and one up Piney Creek. As far as the town was concerned, it wasn't so much of a town. Well I guess there was 100 houses probably between there and Prince.
PN: There were a hundred houses?
WD: About a hundred houses. Prince and Quinnimont joined together; you didn't know which was which. There wasn't no dividing line, you might say.
PN: And most of the people that lived in Prince and Quinnimont, did they work for the railroad?
WD: Well yes, quite a few. Cause, as I 've already said, they had two branch lines coming down, besides the main line. But the main line, their headquarters was at Hinton; and the next one down, Hanley where the crews changed. These here, only changes down at Quinnimont, see, your branch lines.
PN: After the Lay land explosion, where did you live then? Did you move away
from Layland?
WD: Well when I left Lay land, I went to work in the woods, I guess. 1 think I told you before. I worked for Hutchinson Lumber Company down at Bellwood. And for some reason, I got dissatisfied.
PN: That was after the Lay land explosion?
WD: Huh?
PN: Was that after Lay land or Eccles?
WD: Well after Layland. See, from Eccles I went, went to Layland. And only b lowed up the same day I started to work. So I didn't get to work there. And I didn't even go back after my tools; I lost all my tools. Back in them days, you had to own your own tools. I had, I expect, $100 worth of tools picks and auger and so on. I didn't even, well in fact I never unbundled them. I only just loosened up enough to pull one pick out. The rest of ‘em was still tied up in a bundle. I left there, and I never went back after them, so I don't know whatever happened to them.
PN: Where did you work in the mines later?
WD: Well, I didn't work in the mines no more until after I got out of the Army in the First World War. And the reason, and the reason for that, work, then, I told you a while ago, the sawmill blew, blowed up and killed my brother. And so after I got over the shock, I just said, “Well it looks like things out—, blow up outside as well as in the mines. So I just might as well go back in the mines." And I did. And I worked there on up till, till 19—, about '58 1 guess, wasn't it?
PN: Was that when you retired?
WD: When I retired from the mines, yea.
PN: What mines did you work in?
WD: Quinwood.
PN: Quinwood?
WD: Yea, Imperial Smokeless. And at that time, they sold out to [a] Sprague outfit. And later on, now it belongs to Westmoreland Coal Company.
PN: When did you move to Quinwood?
WD: In 1921.
PN: And then you worked from, in Quinwood, here from 1921 to 1958?
WD: Yea, sometime around then.
PN: They didn't have a union here when you began working here, did they?
WD: Oh yea.
PN: They did?
WD: Oh, we opened up a union here. See they had a strict rule up here when I come up here and got a job; you had to sign what they called a “yellow dog”, which you won't belong to no union. Well, they held pretty close to that. So when Roosevelt was elected President, and they had the law written, executive order of law written that, that everyone, anyone that wanted was allowed to have, to organize and not, couldn't be discriminated against. And so that's, that's when we organized. A bunch of men come up somewhere from down, I don't know where they come from, they come up what they call Sugar Grove over here.
PN: On the what?
WD: Some bunch of men, organizers, come up here, there's a whole bunch of them down below here, what they call Sugar Grove right over there.
PN: Sugar Grove?
WD: Yea, and had a, you might say a rally. And they want everybody to j oin a union which they all pledged they would. So that's where we first organized. That was about 19—, oh somewhere in the early twenties.
PN: The union wasn't destroyed here in the twenties?
WD: Huh?
PN: Did you have a union here in the twenties?
WD: Oh yes.
PN: All the time?
WD: Local No. 6200.
PN: All the time?
WD: All the time, yea.
PN: Even if you had to sign the yellow—dog contract?
WD: No, after, I say when Roosevelt made President, they wrote either a executive order or had a law passed, I don't know which, that anybody who organized without being discriminated against. And if they could prove that they discriminated in any way, well heavy penalty. So I guess about everything organized along by that time. I can't recall exactly what year that was in. It was in early part of twenties. [He is obviously talking about 1933.] Cause when sign the red—dog [meaning yellow—dog], that was in '21. So I don't recall just, just how long that run. They used to, for bait, they had to have a condition. The reason I belong, that if you didn't belong to a union, you'd [get] a 2% bonus on your entire earnings during the year. You get 2, 2% bait, you might say.
PN: What, if you didn't join a union?
WD: If you didn't join the union, yea.
PN: What was that, for individual people or for the whole mine, or what?
WD: That meant for all, all the workers. I know I drawed, I always drawed the heaviest bonus in Quinwood all the time they paid the bonus.
PN: Why, cause you loaded more tons than anybody else?
WD: How?
PN: Cause you loaded more tons? Why did you get a bigger bonus?
WD: Well 1 loaded more coal.[laughs] You got paid according [ to] your earnings, and my earnings was better than anybody's else. And a certain fellow, he was, background was built there [sic], and he's been drawing the biggest bonus. He said, “If I go up there and get a job, I'll take it running away from him.” But when the year wind up, I drawed I think about $10 more than he did. So he didn't say, he got up and left. Some of ‘em got to kidding him about it, so he left. He was a good, was a good friend of mine too.
PN; Let me just ask you a few more questions about Terry. When you lived there, what kind of houses did they have in Terry?
WD: Well, they just had comp—, old, old rough houses up and down boards with strips on them.
PN: What did they look like inside?
WD: Well inside, they was, they was sealed with this here tongue—and—groove pine timber. The inside wasn't too bad. But they didn’t, don't think they ever painted them; they just painted them when they first put them up,
I reckon.
PN: They didn't paint them?
WD: I don't think so.
PN: On the inside, did they have wallpaper or anything?
WD: No, they, well yes, the walls was papered. They used what, anything they wanted, but the way the company finished them, it was just tongue—and— groove pine, regular sealing.
PN: How many rooms did they have?
WD: How?
PN: How many rooms?
WD: Well, most of 'em was four and five.
PN: What did people use the rooms for?
WD: How?
PN: What did people use the rooms for?
WD : Well, I cant t say now. Kitchen, dining room, and bedrooms. They hardly ever had a real front room, you know, I'd say. Well, they ordinarily had one room they used as a front room. It was very com—, very common, you see, [at that] day and time. You wouldn't hardly think about living in one of them now. But back then, you know, it was about the average. Of course now Layland, they built pretty good houses when, Layland was all tongue—and—, weatherboarding and inside of most of them was plastered. They had very good, good houses there. The average one was usually rough lumber, with strips on it.
PN: Would you rather have worked along the New River, or was it better working in some of these other mines?
WD: What was that?
PN: Did it make any difference in the mines in New River or some of the mines on the mountains? Was one better than the other?
WD: Well, the biggest difference [was] the kind of conditions. Like Layland had awful good coal, it had, run four—and—a—half to five feet, and had excellent top. And so it was better than the average. Hemlock and Greenwood had pretty much the same thing. But seemed like that the roof conditions were better at Lay land, until we got in about, oh, a mile, mile and a half. Then they run in bad top, and they had all bad top from there on. I worked there at Lay land, when they had [the] explosion, no one ever thought about any bad top there. Only, only had rolls or something [referring to rib rolls]. And then when, when I got on [as] mine inspector, I hadn't been in the mines for about 15 years [referring to the Lay land mines] . I was surprised [at] the difference in some places. Fell out so high, the reflection from your lamp would barely reach, see the top. It fell all the way up to the sand rock.
PN: Where?
WD: At Layland. Some places…
PN: What, you hadn't been in that particular mine for 15 years, and you came back?
WD: Yea, came back. There was that much difference in conditions.
PN: When you were living in Terry…
WD: How's that?
PN: When you were living in Terry, what did people do for fun then? Was there any type of entertainment in Terry?
WD: Down on the river, there was a big, flat rock. We'd sit and play poker all day Sunday.
PN: At Terry?
WD: That's what, some fellow around [said] "Come on down on the rock”, said, said, “show you something." That's the biggest pastime I had there was playing poker, and the other was standing around and watching them.
PN: Did they have any movie theater or anything in Terry?
WD: No, no.
PN: Did they have any schools or churches there?
WD: Well, they had a church and a schoolhouse, I think. [If] you wanted to go to a movie or anything, you had to go to Beckley.
PN: To Beckley?
WD: Mm.
PN: Did It take a railroad to get to Beckley?
WD: Veil, they, the train went up there every day.
PN: Where, up, up Piney Creek?
WD: Two trips a day up Piney, yea. They went all the way to Lester and
back.
PN: To Lester?
WD: Mm. I think it made two trips a day if I'm not mistaken.
PN: In Terry let's see, what was I going to ask? — did people grow their own vegetables or gardens of any kind there?
WD: Well at Terry, some of ‘em had gardens, yea. Most camps almost had somebody would have a garden. Up at Lay land, the way the houses were there, they go off a little way somewhere, and clean a place and plant a garden —one or two who had ambition enough to.
PN: But not as many people had garden at Layland?
WD: Well not so many, no. But there wasn't too much suitable place to have one, for one thing.
PN: Which, at Layland or Terry?
WD: Oh, they had more room in Terry, yea.
PN: Did people keep animals then?
PN: Did people keep animals?
WD: Well, some of them had cows, yea. I don't think you were allowed to keep ‘em at Lay land though. At Terry, they had cows.
PN: Back in 1913, people, people didn't have radios then, did they?
WD: What? Radios? Don't you know that the first radio I heard was when we come here to Quinwood.
PN: Really?
WD: ‘21.
PN: ’21?
WD: Mm. I bought a Kent. It would squawk and squeak. And then you’d hear a word or two, and it would squeak and squawk again.
PN: So it wasn't too good really then?
WD: No, it wasn't very efficient, no. I guess I bought the first cabinet — Victrola. Up here there's someplace, some company went bankrupt in Cincinnati and I got a cabinet, TV, oh it was a dandy, about a hundred dollars. And most of them was at that time, was just little table models.
PN: Little what?
WD: Little table models.
PN: Is there anything else that, you know, you think is important to
mention about those years back then?
WD: What?
PN: Is there anything else that you think is important to say about those years, those early years?
WD: Not just now. Shut that off if you want to and we can see where we are. [Short break.]
PN: You were working at Greenwood?
WD: Yea, Dad and I worked at Greenwood.
PN: What, lumber?
WD: That's on Laurel Creek, just below, just below Layland.
PD: You were working in a coal mine then?
WD: Yea. And so my brother, one of the younger brothers and sisters lived out here at Spring Dale on a farm. And my mother would bring pro—, produce down about once a month, or maybe oftener than that. And about once a month or so, Daddy come out from Greenwood to Spring Dale. Usually along the end of the month. You know how it is, going out there, I 'd stay in the shanty. We had a Russian that shantied with us. And we generally all stayed in. Well anyway, this here Russian, he had some friends come from the old country, that used to be here before. And of course that called for a celebration. And so they walked down from Greenwood to what was called Robbins, or Export. And there used to be a saloon there. So they went on down there. And of course, I didn't want to stay by myself there in the shanty. I went along with them just, just to be going. And they stayed down there, and they drink till they got pretty well lit up. And it never occurred to them, next day it's Sun— day —— they wouldn't have nothing to drink till they got back up almost home. And they want me to go back there to buy ‘em some whiskey to last over Sunday. And I balked, and tell them: "No, I didn't - got all the walking I wanted that day. " And so one of them pull out a dollar bill and said, shook it in my face, wanted to know how I'd go for that. Told him, oh, I grabbed the dollar. I was ready to go right now. So he gave me a $20 bill to buy him two quarts. At that time, it sold for $1.25, not a fifth, but a quart. So I got, he give me a $20 bill and told me to buy two quarts. So I went down Robbins, and I just happened down there between six and seven o 'clock. They always closed for supper then. So I had to stomp around; there was about a foot or more of snow and real cold. It was sometime in January. And the saloon opened up. And j us t before the saloon opened up, these two colored men —— of course they lived close by there, they knew what time it opened up, so they stayed till the last minute.
And they come on in about the same time I did. Of course I was cold; I was heat, warming myself around the stove before I tried to transact any business. After I got warmed up, I went up to the counter and put down my notes, which I wrote myself, with my Daddy's name on it: “Let this boy have two quarts of whiskey.” I put that on the counter and a $20 bill, and he gave me two quarts and change, let's see, $18 or something, I don't know, whatever change was coming. So I took, put the change in my pocket. And I had on a kind of mackinaw coat, and put a quart, one in each pocket. So I stood around the fire then, wanting to get warmed up good. And these two colored men was, was buying by the drink. Well, when I got thoroughly warmed up, I was, got up and started out. I noticed I hadn't much more than got out of the door, and here these two colored men come out too. I got suspicious then that they wasn't up to anything good. So they walked fast, got ahead of me. And they had their heads together talking among them. Of course, I couldn't tell what they was talking about. So they kept that up for quite a while. And after a while, they finally fell out and they got i n a fight. And one supposedly knocked the other one down. And one, one o f them come back to me. He said, “Boy, that damned nigger wants to rob you. t ' He said, ' 'You stay with me. He opened up, his belly, he showed me a big gun he had, you know. And I got suspicious that he wanted to rob me just as bad as he does. But anyway I let on, let on like I believed what he said. And come up to Greenwood, the store just opened up at that time. Negroes were just piled in the store till you couldn't, there wasn't room to turn around in there. Anyway, I told this other, that I was going to the store to buy something. And I went up in, into the crowd, and he was standing at the door, and he couldn't see me. So I seen him come in and look around to see if he could see me anywhere. While he was there, I sneaked out through the door. But, I guess he suspicioned I must have left. So I went, oh about 300 yards, and there was two or three colored houses. And I knew, knew the people [ that] lived there. And it was real dark, way after dark, and so I stopped there to borrow a, a lamp — well just a miner's oil lamp — cause I had to go up that holler and the old tram road was rotten, broke through full of holes. And dark, that way you couldn't see where you was going. So I stopped and asked this fellow if he I could borrow his lamp. He said, “Yea sure you can borrow it. That was on Saturday and he said, "I won't need it tomorrow no way. And while I was in there getting that lamp, I seen this, my "partner" go by. And of course, he bound to see me standing in the doorway. Anyway I got the lamp and started up the holler. And by the time I got up, about a half a mile up, getting up close to the top of the hill, the moon come up. And there’s a great big chestnut snag standing by the road. And I some way suspicioned he was behind that snag. And sure enough, I was looking right close. As I come closer, I could see his shadow back up. So I got sort of close and I said, I said, see you behind that snag there. " He wouldn't move. And he seen I wasn't a 'coming any closer, so he jumped out. And I took off back down the holler like a deer, a wild deer. And I looked over my shoulder and he, see, he quit following me. And so I went back down to this house where I borrowed the lamp and told this colored fellow what happened. And he said, "Just wait a minute. He says, "I’ll, I’ll take you up home. He went back in and got a big gun about that long [indicating about a foot with his hands], and stuck it in his pocket. And said, “Come on boy, I'll show that son of a b. how to molest boys." So he come on out, and we went on up the holler. And there's two ways to get over there. We went up the little path. He said, he said, “I don't want to have to shoot the son of a, son of a so—and—so, so let's go up this—a—way. So he went up to the shanty. And I told these Russians what happened. Oh, they opened up a bottle, and they give him, he drunk almost half of one of 'em. [laughs] And go, when Dad come back Sunday evening, I told him about it. And he t s going to get, and these two colored people were well known. People, this fellow what took me up home, he knew where they were. And he found out, they found out my Dad was going to get a warrant for them, they shipped out. They never did see them no more.
PN: Really? I guess that pretty much covers everything I wanted to cover. Unless there's anything else you wanted to add.
WD: How's that?
PN: I guess that covers everything I wanted to cover, unless there's anything else that you want to add.
WD: No, not that part of it, no. Just as well shut it off.
PN: OK.
[Note: This was an extremely difficult interview to transcribe. Mr. Derenge's voice is quite weak, and sometimes slurred, both because of his age and his problems with Black Lung disease.]
Description
Company Store Operator, Royal, Terry, Prince, Layland, Greenwood, ealy 1900's, mining explosions
Date Created
10/04/1980
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