Oral History Interview with B.O. Butler

Transcript

Transcript

[Audio begins at 00:07] Oloye Adeyemon: Brown v. Board Oral History Collection, Clarendon County, South Carolina school segregation-desegregation interviews. Interviewee, Mr. B. O. Butler. Interviewer, Oloye Adeyemon for the National Park Service. Interview conducted at the Clarendon County School District Administration Building for District One in Summerton, South Carolina on July 16, 2001. These interviews were made possible through the Brown v. Board Oral History Research Project funded by the National Park Service during the summer of 2001 as part of the Brown v. Board of Education National Historic Site Oral History Collection Project. Mr. Butler, what is your full name? Broadus O. Butler: Broadus O. Butler. Oloye Adeyemon: How do you spell your first name? Broadus O. Butler: B-R-O-A-D-U-S. Oloye Adeyemon: And what is your birth date? Broadus O. Butler: 10-16-23. Oloye Adeyemon: And your birth place? Broadus O. Butler: Greenville County. Oloye Adeyemon: And that’s here in South Carolina? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. It is. In the upper part of the state. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. And what were your parents’ names? Broadus O. Butler: My father’s name was Edward Butler, and my mother, Janetta Butler. Oloye Adeyemon: And her maiden name? Broadus O. Butler: Janetta Latter. Oloye Adeyemon: And they-they were also from Greenville? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. They were. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And, uh, what is your occupation? Broadus O. Butler: I’m retired. Oloye Adeyemon: What-what did you do previously? Broadus O. Butler: Previously I was an administrator— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. Broadus O. Butler: - in Clarendon School District One. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Um, in what capacity? Broadus O. Butler: Well, I have served in many capacities. Um, teaching, principal, a parent, uh, superintendent and board member. Oloye Adeyemon: Hmm. The, um-I understand that you were the first African-American in the state to hold one of those positions. Is that correct? Broadus O. Butler: That’s correct. Oloye Adeyemon: Which position was that? Broadus O. Butler: Superintendent. Oloye Adeyemon: The, um—what year was that? Broadus O. Butler: As far as I can recall now, it was 1970 and ’71. Oloye Adeyemon: What did your, uh, parents do for a living? Broadus O. Butler: They were farmers. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Uh, were your family land owners? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. How many acres? Broadus O. Butler: Oh. A small tract, about 23 to ’5 acres. Something like that. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Well, did you have, uh, brothers and sisters? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. I did. Uh-huh. Oloye Adeyemon: What were their names? Broadus O. Butler: Uh, the oldest was, uh, Berner. Um— Oloye Adeyemon: How do you spell that name? Broadus O. Butler: B-E-R-N-E-R. And, uh, the next, uh, was a girl. Deceased. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Uh— Oloye Adeyemon: Her name? Broadus O. Butler: Margaret Elizabeth. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. Broadus O. Butler: Uh, the next brother was, uh, Charles Herbert. Geraldine, the next girl. I came next. Then after me, a sister, Jessie May, and a baby brother, John Willie. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. How did your family feel about education? Your parents? And how did you feel about education growing up? Broadus O. Butler: My mother was very, uh, interested in education. She had a younger sister that became a school teacher. She was interested in the same but did not reach that level, so she was very interested in her children getting an education. Oloye Adeyemon: What-at what point in your life did you decide that you would go into this area of, you know, of a career? Broadus O. Butler: When I was in, uh, high school, I became interested and encouraged by the school principal and homeroom teacher. Oloye Adeyemon: What were their names? Broadus O. Butler: The principal’s name was, um, uh, Roy Cottingham. And, uh, the teacher, the homeroom teacher was, uh, Mrs. Beady. I can’t recall the first name right now. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm Wa-was the school district at that time, uh, segregated? Male Voice: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: In Greenville, yes, it was. Oloye Adeyemon: Throughout the state? Male Voice: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: Where did you, um, go to school after, uh, finishing, you know, and finishing high school? Broadus O. Butler: South Carolina State University. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And that’s located? Broadus O. Butler: In Orangeburg. Oloye Adeyemon: In Orangeburg. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: And what did you major in? Broadus O. Butler: I majored in agriculture. Oloye Adeyemon: Hmm. Broadus O. Butler: [Laughter] Oloye Adeyemon: What was your reason for majoring in agriculture? Had you already decided you wanted to go into education? Or are you— Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Uh, I always wanted to be like my high school principal. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. He had a degree in agriculture? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. So was it were you planning to teach agriculture? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Did they offer agriculture at the school, at the high school that you went to? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. It did. And he was the teacher. Oloye Adeyemon: He was the teacher? The principal? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Uh, had he gone to South Caro-State-Caroli-Carolina State as well in Orangeburg? And he also graduated from there? Broadus O. Butler: Uh, I don’t think he graduated from there. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Uh, uh, he came from, uh, Benedict College in Columbia. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So when you finished, you know, there, uh, what-what was the next thing that you did? Broadus O. Butler: From, uh? Oloye Adeyemon: From South Carolina State? Broadus O. Butler: I came across the river, which is 35 miles over the river there— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - right into Clarendon County. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. So, uh, Orangeburg is 35 miles from Summerton? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Or 35 miles from the county? Broadus O. Butler: Thirty-five miles from, uh, Summerton. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. But it sits right on the border of the county line? Or very close to the county line of Clarendon County? Broadus O. Butler: Oh, yes. Uh, the bridge— Oloye Adeyemon: And it’s Clarendon County as soon as you cross the bridge? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. As soon as you cross the bridge, that’s Orangeburg County. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Uh, is that-what divides it? What-what divides-what bridge is that? Broadus O. Butler: The Santee River. Oloye Adeyemon: The Santee River— Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. The Santee River Oloye Adeyemon: - okay—divides the two counties? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. Um, so after graduation, you came straight to Summerton. Um, were you-was-what-what attracted you to Summerton? Broadus O. Butler: Well, it was an attraction. When I graduated from the South Carolina State, it was State A&M at that particular time. Um, we were interviewed, all of the persons in the vocational department were interviewed by the State Department of Education. And, uh, they assigned us our first jobs. And I was assigned to Clarendon One. Oloye Adeyemon: I have heard people say that before. Explain to me what you mean when you say they assigned you. Broadus O. Butler: People in the-uh, um, graduates in the field of agriculture would be, uh, interviewed by the vocational department of the state of South Carolina, which was at the State Department of Education. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: I think his name was Mr. R. D. Anderson at that time. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: He’d go to various places and he’d interview the students. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: And, uh, they would be assigned that first positions as he was over the state. And, um, the vocational department, ag’ teachers all over the state were. Oloye Adeyemon: I get the feeling when-when people talk about that, that they did not simply go wherever they wanted and were put in an interview. That— Broadus O. Butler: No. Oloye Adeyemon: And but-but the-but this was acceptable because it, kind of, guaranteed you a-a job. But-but it wasn’t a situation where you simply went around looking for a job? Broadus O. Butler: No, no. Oloye Adeyemon: And I guess now it-it would have been difficult at that time without—and a lot of these positions that might have been available wouldn’t have been in the newspaper at that time. Broadus O. Butler: That’s right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: I see. Um, was there any kind of, um, subsidy or help that people got with their education with the understanding that they would give back after graduating? Broadus O. Butler: No. Oloye Adeyemon: So the assignment was not something where you were working off something? It was just simply the way in which interviews were handled, and applications? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Right. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So when you came, it was specifically an opening for that position? Or just an opening for a teacher? Broadus O. Butler: It was an opening for a principal, a teaching principal. Oloye Adeyemon: A teaching principal. You didn’t say that. Broadus O. Butler: But now that was, uh, not right in this particular district ’cause this district was—in, uh, various districts, it was divided. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: That was District Four, which was a little school down the road here. Now it’s St. Paul Elementary School. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: A primary school But at that particular time it was, uh, St. Paul Training School. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. So I think at that time, uh, this school district here, uh, was School District 22. Broadus O. Butler: Twenty-two. That’s correct. Oloye Adeyemon: Right. So there were a lot of real small school districts. Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Later they consolidated. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: How many school districts are there in the county today? Broadus O. Butler: There are only three-and three throughout the county. Oloye Adeyemon: How many were there total during this time? Broadus O. Butler: I don’t know the total number because, uh, this district was divided into at least three. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: And then Manning, which was another district, how many they had, I do not know. Oloye Adeyemon: Right. But there was at— Broadus O. Butler: [Crosstalk 11:01] Oloye Adeyemon: - at least 22 because [crosstalk 11:03]. Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. And the one that you went to at that time would have been District Four. Broadus O. Butler: District Four. Oloye Adeyemon: What year was that? Broadus O. Butler: 1949. Oloye Adeyemon: 1949. Broadus O. Butler: [Clears throat] Oloye Adeyemon: Uh, now you said St. Paul Training school. Was there more than one St. Paul school? Broadus O. Butler: No. Uh, there were other outlying schools. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: There were three others. Oloye Adeyemon: In the St. Paul area? Broadus O. Butler: In the District Four St. Paul area. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Uh, was one of those Butler School? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. It was. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. Where was Butler School located? Broadus O. Butler: It was, uh, uh, south of, uh, what we call it “the richest, uh, section of District Four.” Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And what were the other schools in the St. Paul area? Broadus O. Butler: We had, uh, Santee. That was, uh, a little further down the road in the same area. And there was another one—did I call, “Butler”? Oloye Adeyemon: Yes. Yes. Broadus O. Butler: Oaks. Oloye Adeyemon: Oaks. Broadus O. Butler: Yeah. Oaks was another one. Oloye Adeyemon: And then there was St. Paul Training School. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: Were the others called “training schools” as well? The other three? Broadus O. Butler: No. Just all we ever called ’em was just “Butler,” “Santee,” and “Oaks.” Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Was there a difference with St. Paul Training School that caused it be called a “training school”? Was there something different about it? Broadus O. Butler: I really don’t know. It ran, uh, from the 1st Grade through, uh, uh, 11th Grade at that time. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. What ye-what years did the other three schools cover? Broadus O. Butler: They were from One through Eight. Oloye Adeyemon: I see. I see. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Now at that time, when they said, “training,” did it refer to a specific area of study? Broadus O. Butler: No. Oloye Adeyemon: Were-were there certain kinds of things they did? Broadus O. Butler: I don’t know where they got the training from. Oloye Adeyemon: [Unintelligible 12:53] Broadus O. Butler: Just— Oloye Adeyemon: Was it 1949 when 12th Grade was added? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Is that the year they added that? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Until then it was just One through Eleven. Broadus O. Butler: One through Eleven. Oloye Adeyemon: Now what year did students in the St. Paul area begin coming to Scott’s Branch? Broadus O. Butler: I believe that was around 1954. Somewhere around there. Yeah. Oloye Adeyemon: And what changed? Why-why were students no longer going? The ones [unintelligible 13:37] at St. Paul instead? [Crosstalk 13:40] Broadus O. Butler: That’s when the district was consolidated. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. Into what is today Clarendon County District One. Broadus O. Butler: Clarendon. One. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. And when that happened, how many high schools were there left? Broadus O. Butler: Only one. Oloye Adeyemon: Only one? And that was Scott’s Branch? Broadus O. Butler: Well, there were two. This one, this-the-the building we are in presently was a high school. Oloye Adeyemon: Was a White high school. Broadus O. Butler: A White high school. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: And then the Scott’s Branch. Oloye Adeyemon: And then the Scott’s Branch High School. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh, well, did the St. Paul Training School close? Or did it continue to offer education? Broadus O. Butler: No. The St. Paul School— Oloye Adeyemon: [Clears throat] Broadus O. Butler: - was, uh, moved from the old buildings down near 301— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - to the, uh, building where they are now in, uh, about 1950. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. But kept the old name? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Mm-hmm. They kept the same name. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Uh— Broadus O. Butler: [Clears throat] Oloye Adeyemon: - what was the, uh—so all of these, St. Paul, Oak, Butler, and what was the other? Broadus O. Butler: Santee. Oloye Adeyemon: Santee. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: All four of these continued to offer, uh, primary and, you know, education? And then the children would be at that point— Broadus O. Butler: The, uh— Oloye Adeyemon: - transferred to Scott’s Branch? Broadus O. Butler: No. Uh, St. Paul School took in this-the other three schools: Santee, Butler, and Oaks. Oloye Adeyemon: They all [crosstalk 15:06]. Broadus O. Butler: They went into St. Paul— Oloye Adeyemon: At the same time. Broadus O. Butler: - at that time. Yes Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. And what grade did high school begin at in 1954, in the beginning over at Scott’s Branch? What was the grade in which they transferred to Scott’s Branch? Broadus O. Butler: They transferred, uh, Nine through Twelve. Oloye Adeyemon: Nine through Twelve. The-a question that, uh, perhaps you can answer as well that’s come up, and people feel pretty confident, but they’re not quite sure. Before Scott’s Branch was built, there was a school that went One through Eleven near St. Mark’s Church. Is that correct? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: That school burned. And then after that they built St.-uh, Scott’s Branch Schools with One to Elven. Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Is-is that accurate? Broadus O. Butler: That’s correct. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. What-was—now St. Mark’s is very close to Scott’s Branch? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. It is. Oloye Adeyemon: To the actual creek itself? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Yes. About two blocks. Oloye Adeyemon: And I was told that the school that burned was also called-it was the original Scott’s Branch. It was named that because of its own creek. Is that it? Broadus O. Butler: That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. ’Cause no one was sure. They-they thought that that was the case, but they really weren’t sure. Broadus O. Butler: Yeah. I see. But that is correct. Oloye Adeyemon: That is correct. Mm-hmm. And is it also correct that the counties donated the land for the Scott’s Branch, uh, school to be built? Broadus O. Butler: Now that part I don’t know. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. Broadus O. Butler: [Clears throat] Oloye Adeyemon: The, um, one thing—that-that was one of the things that people had speculated on. And, uh, I talked to, uh, Reverend Delane’s son, and he said it might be true because he knows that the counties owned land in that area. His father bought his property from the county. Broadus O. Butler: Okay. Oloye Adeyemon: So he-but he wasn’t sure either. Broadus O. Butler: Oh. I see. Oloye Adeyemon: Yeah. Um, so the school system was consolidated, and all of these smaller schools were combined into, uh, St. Paul? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: How did St. Paul School gets its name? Broadus O. Butler: That part, I don’t know. Oloye Adeyemon: Is there a St. Paul Church in the area? Broadus O. Butler: No. Oloye Adeyemon: No? Okay. Is it true that some of these schools go back in time to a point when there was the church, and then there was a school nearby that the church helped to operate that had the same name? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. Are there examples that you remember of churches that also gave their name to the school at the time in this county? Broadus O. Butler: There was, uh, the Liberty Hill, the AME Church. That’s not too far away. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. They had a Liberty Hill School? Broadus O. Butler: They had a-a Liberty Hill School. And then one-one of those that I mentioned, and the three outlying schools of S-St. Paul, Santee— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - was a church. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: But the other two were just—well, the Oaks was after their church also. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So up until 1954, were these sc-schools run in part by the church? Broadus O. Butler: I would think so. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. After 1954, did the churches play the same role that they had previously played in providing education in the community? Broadus O. Butler: No. I believe that’s during the time when, um, they were brought into the, um— Oloye Adeyemon: More centralized. Broadus O. Butler: - central-it was centralized. Oloye Adeyemon: And so the—well, was that-was that a common thing going back even further? You know? Maybe toward the 19-early-really early 1900s in the South? You know? Churches and schools close [crosstalk 18:48 - 18:49]? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. There were [crosstalk 18:50]. Oloye Adeyemon: What were some of the reasons for that? Broadus O. Butler: I would think that, uh, because of, uh, some of the leaders, pastors and individuals in the communities that were interested in educating Blacks, that they were sponsored through, uh, the churches. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: And, uh, that was the basic reason why. Oloye Adeyemon: Would it be safe to say that, um, there was not as much, uh, time, money and effort spent in those days by southern states in educating Blacks, and they had to take a lot of the responsibility— Broadus O. Butler: Definitely. That’s correct. Oloye Adeyemon: - by themselves? Broadus O. Butler: Definitely. Oloye Adeyemon: And other than the church, uh, what other elements within the African-American community took an active role in seeing that the children got an education? Broadus O. Butler: Repeat. Oloye Adeyemon: Besides the churches, what other element, what other group was involved actively in making sure that Black children got an education? That was actually dedicated and, well, concerned about that during those early years? Was it besides the church itself that might have had a building next-door? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Um, most of these that I am referring to were rural churches— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - where and the, uh, Black children were not provided with a-the opportunity of getting an education. And through the churches, they organized. And in many instances the minister became the, uh, teacher. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Did the Black colleges play any role during those years in making sure that Black children got an education? Broadus O. Butler: I am not sure about that. Uh, well, I’ll just leave it at that. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: I’m not that-too sure about that. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. But there were no Black colleges in Clarendon County during this time? Broadus O. Butler: No. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Uh, the, um, period of 1954, were there changes that took place for the children—you know, White and Black children—uh, other than the consolidation? Was there-were there other changes that affected the schools in Clarendon County during that time? And-and was where some of the reasons the White schools were affected in 1954? Broadus O. Butler: Well, as you know, uh, the Black schools were under the administration of the White population. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: And funding only came through that particular area. So therefore, much of the, uh, funding was used for the White schools. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: And the Black schools would only take what was-what was left. Oloye Adeyemon: What was left. You said that, uh, one of the changes that took place here in Summerton was that there was only one high school, and all of the children, after they got to a certain grade, came to one high school for Blacks. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: They came to Scott’s Branch. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: At that time, Summerton High where we-the building where we are now— Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: - became the White high school that children came to. Before that, had there been smaller White districts where they went to school One through Eleven, where they didn’t have-some-some of the outlying areas didn’t have to come to Summerton? Or had they always been coming to Summerton? Broadus O. Butler: Well, there were a few. Oloye Adeyemon: There were a few? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: But they were also closed and consolidated at the same time? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: At the point that we’re talking about, um, prior to 1954, uh, did the—well, actually you would have-yeah, it would have covered your coming. In 1949, when you came, uh, you were interviewed by the district, um, superintendent? Broadus O. Butler: No. It was still District, uh, Four. Oloye Adeyemon: Did they have a superintendent? Broadus O. Butler: Hm-mmm. I was only the person that, uh, headed up that particular district. So. Oloye Adeyemon: Who interviewed you? Who-who accepted your application? Broadus O. Butler: Who interviewed me when I came? I was interviewed at South Carolina State College. Oloye Adeyemon: You didn’t interview here in the county at all. Broadus O. Butler: Well, I came and met with the chairman of the board of District Four. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Do you remember who that was? Broadus O. Butler: J. E. Childress. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: And he was also the county, uh, chair. Oloye Adeyemon: Of? The county chair for? Broadus O. Butler: Throughout the county. Oloye Adeyemon: For the school board? Broadus O. Butler: He was the chairman of the school board. Oloye Adeyemon: For the whole county? Broadus O. Butler: Yeah—no, no. Just for District Four. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: Did it-did-did I make myself clear? Oloye Adeyemon: When you came, the person that was supervising all of the schools in District Four is the person you just named? Broadus O. Butler: No. He was the, uh, chairperson on the board of, uh, three individuals. If I remember, there were two others that they were responsible for in District Four. But, see, that was District 22 where we are sitting. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: And, uh, Manning and all of the others. Oloye Adeyemon: So you’re saying it was more than one person responsible for District Four? You said-and you said there were two others? Or are you saying there were two other districts that— Broadus O. Butler: No, no. I’m saying that there were three persons. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: There were three persons that served on the board, and that board were responsible for the, um-was responsible for the, uh, operation of that district. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: So therefore, when I was hired, I was hired to head that district up. So it— Oloye Adeyemon: As principal? Broadus O. Butler: As principal and a teacher, and supervising those other schools in the district. Oloye Adeyemon: All right. Okay. Broadus O. Butler: The three schools that I told you are outlying. Oloye Adeyemon: And-and this was done, uh, with a board in place that, kind of— Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: - and oversaw the operations? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Mm-hmm. That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So then you weren’t just, uh, responsible for, um, St. Paul. You were responsible for all four of those schools? Broadus O. Butler: I was. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: I see. Okay. And at that time, uh, how would you sa the salary that you received compared— Broadus O. Butler: [Laughter] Oloye Adeyemon: - to what the salary that a White person in that same district? ’Cause I assume there were-there were-there were White schools in [crosstalk 25:38]. Broadus O. Butler: No. There were no White schools in that area. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. So this was an entirely Black area. Broadus O. Butler: Entirely Black. Oloye Adeyemon: I see. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: But within what today is the Summerton-Clarendon County District One— Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: - which includes that? Broadus O. Butler: That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: There were other areas that were-that did have White schools. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh, Summerton Proper was one of the them. Broadus O. Butler: Yes. It was. Oloye Adeyemon: And what was the third, um, entity at that time? St. Paul was one. Some-the other three that consolidated? St. Paul, Summerton, and what was the third? Broadus O. Butler: Springhill. Oloye Adeyemon: Springhill? And did-so S-Summerton had White schools. Did Springhill have White schools? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. There was a White school in the Springhill, uh, area. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. But not in the St. Paul area? Broadus O. Butler: Hm-mmm. No. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. How would your salary have compared with the salary of your counterpart in Springhill or in Summerton? Or you-did-did you know? Or not? Broadus O. Butler: No. That was-I-I couldn’t answer that— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - because I don’t know. And when I think about the first time that I got a check being just out of school— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - uh, it would bring tears to your eyes. [Laughter] Oloye Adeyemon: Why so? Broadus O. Butler: Uh, it was so-so little. Oloye Adeyemon: How little? Broadus O. Butler: I believe it was $100-and-something. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. For how long? Broadus O. Butler: For a month. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And, well, and you’re-you-you-you, as you said, you were not able to see what it would have been. Uh, could you during that year-no, during those years have made that kind of money in the south doing something else? Broadus O. Butler: Possibly. Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. With the same training that you had, what were some options that you could have-could have had coming out of school besides teaching and being principal? Broadus O. Butler: Well, there were industries that perhaps I could have gone into. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. Here in the south? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: They might have hired you here? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So with yourself and with others, uh, what were some of the factors that allowed you to remain in that position, even though the pay was not that good? Broadus O. Butler: Dedication to education. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So you had that dedication throughout? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. Broadus O. Butler: I had that. Oloye Adeyemon: And you said earlier that one of the inspirations in your own life had been your principal. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Have you ever been told by any of your students that you were an inspiration to them? Broadus O. Butler: Oh. Quite a few of them. Oloye Adeyemon: So you feel that if you— Broadus O. Butler: Yeah. Oloye Adeyemon: - if you had to do again, you would do the same thing? Broadus O. Butler: Oh, yes. I’d do the same thing again. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. So it was tough, but you were dedicated. Would you say that there were others like yourself? You know? You know? There because of that dedication? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Did that have an impact on the students knowing that the people who are teaching them [crosstalk 28:51]? Broadus O. Butler: Oh, yes. It does. It really, really does. Oloye Adeyemon: How would you compare that dedication that existed then and the dedication today that people have to teaching? Whether Black or White? Broadus O. Butler: In comparison? They would have to be dedicated to remain in the school system because— Oloye Adeyemon: Even today? Broadus O. Butler: - e-even today. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Why is that? Broadus O. Butler: Because they probably— Oloye Adeyemon: Why? Why-why would it require today that they have dedication? Broadus O. Butler: Because of the, uh, caliber of students that they-they work with. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. In what-in what way? How are-how are the calibers of students [crosstalk 29:32 - 29:33]? Broadus O. Butler: Well, the students are quite different today than they were when I first started. Oloye Adeyemon: Oh. Okay. Broadus O. Butler: And that is, uh, conduct-wise and, uh, maturity and all of those different types of things. Oloye Adeyemon: What would you say has contributed to the difference in their conduct [unintelligible 29:55]? Broadus O. Butler: Repeat. Oloye Adeyemon: What else? What-what would you say are some of the things that have impacted their maturity level and-and is re-responsible for their conduct? Why-why is their conduct today different and their maturity level different than it was in the past among the students? Broadus O. Butler: Well, it’s-it’s—[coughs] excuse me—it’s just the, uh, period of time as it moves on and progresses. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Students are more verbal today— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - than they were when, uh, I first started. Oloye Adeyemon: Was that a good thing that students were less verbal? Broadus O. Butler: Uh, it’s good. I’m not-I’m not doubting it. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Um, they are just, they’re exposed to more, the environmental conditions. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. ’Cause then they get harder to teach-to teach them. Broadus O. Butler: In some cases, yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Yeah. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Sometimes the students know more than-more than the teacher? Broadus O. Butler: But, uh, what we used to call-uh, and would say that the student was “being bad”— Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. Broadus O. Butler: - or “acting bad”— Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. Broadus O. Butler: - when I first started is mild to what, uh— Oloye Adeyemon: Is happening now. Broadus O. Butler: - what is happening now. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So what-what r-what impact do you think parenting has on that change? Broadus O. Butler: Quite a bit Oloye Adeyemon: In what way? Broadus O. Butler: Uh, parents at that particular time rai-rai-raised their children to fear, to remain silent, and things that they were taught not to do that perhaps they are doing today. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And w-w-w-why-why were-were the parents, uh, teaching their children that way? Why were they [crosstalk 31:55]? Broadus O. Butler: Well, it had to be a carryover from, uh, slavery. Oloye Adeyemon: I see. Now let me understand because if I’m hearing you correctly, uh, you are saying that that was, um, something that restricted the, uh, child in some ways. But at the same time there were less discipline problems for the teachers? Broadus O. Butler: There were less discipline problems at that time. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Um, parents were not involved in the education of their children at that particular time? They were reared-they were reared under a fear tactic— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - of, uh, if you go beyond this boundary— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - there’s a pen-a-a penalty for it. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: And students were-were afraid of their parents as well as afraid of the teacher. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. Broadus O. Butler: And so therefore, they were restricted. They were held into a certain boundary— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - that they were afraid of getting out of in fear of severe punishment. Oloye Adeyemon: But then by the same token, the teachers were dedicated, and they had respect for the teachers? Broadus O. Butler: Oh, yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Oh, yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So is there as much respect for teachers today as there was then? Broadus O. Butler: I don’t think so. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Would you-how-well, would you f—which would you feel is better just as far as education is concerned? Uh, the lack of fear that the children have now? Or the respect that they had then? Broadus O. Butler: I would have to say that, uh, the present now, that is the-the other [crosstalk 33:59]— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Because of the lack of fear? Broadus O. Butler: - be—y-yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Because it, uh, opens up the horizon to all. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Whereas it’s been held back. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Now, um, students, uh, there are-there are some things that perhaps have contributed to, uh, the school not being able to, uh, control them so much, and that is when, uh, the, um, uh, our government took out of the schools prayer— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - and, uh, discipline. Corporal punishment. That has, uh, contributed quite a bit to the attitude that we have— Oloye Adeyemon: I understand. Broadus O. Butler: - concerning students at this particular time. Oloye Adeyemon: I understand that. Yeah. So you were teaching there from ’49 to ’54 in the old system when there were many small school districts. And in the schools, were any of them still remaining as one-room school houses during that period? Broadus O. Butler: No. Hm-mmm. Oloye Adeyemon: They all by that time had been replaced? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: The older one-school-one-school houses? Broadus O. Butler: Well, they were so run-down— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - that, um, it wasn’t very hard to do that. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Because there were some of—especially the Butler School, if I remember—um, such poor fundaring-funding for them that, uh, at times in the spring of the year when-in this particular area, when the March wind began to blow— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - they couldn’t stay in the classroom because, uh, you could see through the floor— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - and sometimes through the roof. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Broadus O. Butler: So it was extra cold and damp. Oloye Adeyemon: So this fear of the building falling? Broadus O. Butler: And, well, there wasn’t so much of a falling in, but those children were being exposed. They were cold. Oloye Adeyemon: And the wind was blowing on them. Broadus O. Butler: Yes. All, uh— Oloye Adeyemon: Oh. Mm-hmm. Yes. Broadus O. Butler: But the other times, they were cold. But I used that as an example. Oloye Adeyemon: I understand. Broadus O. Butler: But, uh, the buildings were very dilapidated. Oloye Adeyemon: So rain would get into the buildings too. Broadus O. Butler: Oh, yes. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: And the heating of them was, uh, done by the parents, who would bring a load of wood from the yard. Oloye Adeyemon: From [crosstalk 36:21]? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: So is it also the case that [clears throat] children, whose families, uh, were farmers, sometimes had to be out of school for planting and for harvesting? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: How many months would that take from their schooling? Broadus O. Butler: Uh, at least two. Oloye Adeyemon: Which two? Broadus O. Butler: Um, the fall years. One in—I’ll say-I’ll say it like this. One in the spring and one in the fall— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - because, uh, in the spring they were preparing the soil and getting ready for planting. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: In the fall they’d be gathering. Oloye Adeyemon: The children coming to the four schools that we talked about, did any of them have to walk a long distance? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: How far were some of the ones that—how far did some of the ones that had to walk furthest come from? Broadus O. Butler: I remember one family that I’m-I’m sure used to walk at least eight or nine miles— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - one way. Oloye Adeyemon: One way. Was there any transportation provided by the county for the child? Broadus O. Butler: No, no. Oloye Adeyemon: In cases, where White children had to come a long distance to school, was transportation provided? Broadus O. Butler: Transportation was provided. Oloye Adeyemon: Was that transportation free? Broadus O. Butler: Oh, yes. As far as I know. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Operated by the state. Oloye Adeyemon: So the children had to walk that distance? Was any-well, were they able to get a ride with anyone? Broadus O. Butler: No. Because, uh, these were old county roads. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Dirt roads. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: I remember many times I have taken ’em in my car and— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - and carried them home. Oloye Adeyemon: Yeah. Did the children—how did the children feel about having to walk that long a distance? The time it would take both ways? And that’s whether the weather was good or bad? Broadus O. Butler: Good or bad. Oloye Adeyemon: How did the children feel about that? And did it affect their attendance? Broadus O. Butler: It affected their attendance. And, uh, as to how they felt about it, I guess there was no reason for them to have any ill feelings about it because that’s all they’d ever known. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And they did it. Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: They-they came anyhow. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: When thing-during this period, from the time you came, uh, was there a teacher for each grade— Broadus O. Butler: [Crosstalk 38:45] Oloye Adeyemon: - you know, in the schools? Broadus O. Butler: No. And especially the, uh, outlying schools. There was one teacher. One of the schools had two. The other two, one. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: But they were responsible for— Oloye Adeyemon: All of the ones. Broadus O. Butler: - One through Eight. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. What would you, uh-the—what-what courses? What-what subjects did the, um, upper grades get? Once they got into the upper grades, what-what specific, you know, areas? Broadus O. Butler: They got, uh, English, mathematics. And when I came, uh, we-it was just about [unintelligible 39:24] and some chemistry. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Were you-did you have the lab equipment that you needed? Broadus O. Butler: No. You provided that yourself. Oloye Adeyemon: Were there labs in, uh, Summerton for the high school? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Now was the education during that time being funded by tax money? In the county in general? Broadus O. Butler: As far as I know, yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. Were Blacks paying taxes during that time? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Those that owned land [crosstalk 39:59]? Broadus O. Butler: Hm-mmm. [Crosstalk 40:00] Oloye Adeyemon: Was there a sales tax in those years? Broadus O. Butler: No. That came about later on. Um, I can’t remember the exact. Like when. But, uh— Oloye Adeyemon: So in the early years it was basically property taxes? Broadus O. Butler: Property taxes. Oloye Adeyemon: Were there any source, another source of revenue for the schools by any chance? Broadus O. Butler: I think there was, uh, some coming from the State Department of Education. Oloye Adeyemon: Did-did they get-where did they get their money? Broadus O. Butler: From taxpayers. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. So it was still probably property taxes then? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Did each county get the same amount according to population? How did it work? Was it based on your population? Was it based on how much taxes they contributed? Broadus O. Butler: Hm-mmm. No. Uh, that-that came from the State Department of Education was based upon your student attendance. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: Average daily attendance. Oloye Adeyemon: Each-each student got a certain amount. Broadus O. Butler: Supposed to. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Now the formula for how much a Black student would get, did that some to be pretty much uniform throughout the state? Or did that-it was, kind of, left up to the county how much they would provide for Black students? Broadus O. Butler: Well, that’s what I was referring to a few more minutes ago that the area superintendent, the Summerton School District One, was, uh-there was one superintendent at that particular time, and all funds came through that. Oloye Adeyemon: For the other kids? Broadus O. Butler: For-for all schools in the area. Oloye Adeyemon: So that would be the-the district of St. Paul where you were, and it was going to Springhill? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: It would be up to him and the board that served this area as to how much would be given. Oloye Adeyemon: And no one really questioned about that. Broadus O. Butler: Hm-mmm. [Unintelligible 41:47] Oloye Adeyemon: So there was no way that Blacks that felt they weren’t getting—and I understand there would be a difference throughout the state between what Whites were getting and the Blacks were getting. Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: But if they felt they were even getting less than other Blacks elsewhere, there’s no one really for them to appeal to— Broadus O. Butler: That’s right. Oloye Adeyemon: - for those issues. Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: In ’54, the schools were consolidated. W-there were—well, what-what-what did you do at that point? Where did you go? Well, did you have a change of position [crosstalk 42:17]? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Uh, I was, uh—well, actually I was moved from the St. Paul school system to the Summerton school system. Oloye Adeyemon: And was that Scott’s Branch? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. It was. Oloye Adeyemon: And at that time it was now One through Twelve— Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: - by now? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh, what year was that? Broadus O. Butler: The-oh, about ’54 or ’55. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. And once you got to Scott’s Branch School, were you the principal there? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. I was. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now— Broadus O. Butler: But still a teaching principal. Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. Now I had heard of a Professor Anderson. Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Was he followed by a Mr. Benson? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. He was. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. After Mr. Benson, over a very, very short space of time there were quite a few principals. Broadus O. Butler: Quite a few. Oloye Adeyemon: Why? Why were there so many? And in what year would that have been when Mr. Benson left? Broadus O. Butler: Now somewhere around ’48 or ’49. Oloye Adeyemon: And how long had he been there when he left? Broadus O. Butler: Which one now? Benson or Anderson? Oloye Adeyemon: Benson. Benson. Broadus O. Butler: Benson? To my knowledge, and, uh, I was not in this area at that particular time, but at the same time, [unintelligible 43:37], um, perhaps maybe two or three years. Oloye Adeyemon: Okay. And Mr. Benson was there? Broadus O. Butler: Mm-hmm. And Mr. Anderson spent the-the longest— Oloye Adeyemon: Amount of time. Broadus O. Butler: The longest-longest time. Oloye Adeyemon: Yeah. So there is about a four-year period when Mr. Benson leaves and other people come in before you come to Summerton. Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Why was-why were there so many principals right after Mr. Benson? What happened? It-it was some turmoil— Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Oloye Adeyemon: - in the Scott’s Branch School during those years. Wasn’t there? Broadus O. Butler: Yes. Um, basically I don’t know the real reason because I was in another district— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - down the road, about four miles— Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. Broadus O. Butler: - but, um, there were conflicts, espec-especially with the-the “PTAs,” they called ’em at that particular time. The PTA organization, the parent-teacher organization? Oloye Adeyemon: Uh-huh. Broadus O. Butler: There was some things that were coming about that caused quite-quite a few of them to. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm-hmm. I’d like to pick up in Part Two, and I’m going to end-end Part One. Yeah. I’d like to pick it up in Part Two and answer a little bit more about that. Broadus O. Butler: Okay. Oloye Adeyemon: Thank you. Broadus O. Butler: All right. Oloye Adeyemon: Mm’kay. [End of Audio]

Description

Serving as school district superintendent until 1979, Butler then served on the district’s school board for many years. Butler also served as deacon at the Historic Taw Caw Baptist Church in Summerton. This interview provides a unique perspective of life in Summerton, South Carolina at the time of Briggs v. Elliott from the perspective of a school official who faced discrimination as an African American man in a position of authority.

Date Created

07/16/2001

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