Audio
Adeline Michel
Transcript
Karana: 00:06 The date is January 27th, 1994. This is Karana: Hattersley-Drayton. I'm going to be interviewing Mrs. Adeline: Michel regarding the thrift shop on the post. This is an interview for the Presidio Oral History Project, National Park Service.
Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Yeah. There we go. Let me go ahead and just tell you-
Adeline: 00:29 See you Wednesday, Cater. Thank you.
Karana: 00:31 ... why I'm here and because what you're saying would be great to hear too. I mean, we can be proactive. This is basically a history project, but history sometimes leads to social changes. Anyway, I am a consultant for the Park Service. I used to work full-time for the Park Service. We are doing an extensive oral history project looking at the post, looking at the past, but also trying to document the post now, both in military history and social history. And I think I yakked on more about it on the phone. And so what we were doing is talking to a series of people, I think from retired colonels to Red Cross workers, et cetera, to get a whole democratic view of life on a post called the Presidio, San Francisco.
And so from this, a transcription will be made. I'll give it back to you. You pay a little bit through me. You make some corrections. It becomes part of the history archives that hopefully, in future generations, leads to better walking tours, new policy, a trail brochure or something like that. So I'm just kind of going through this quickly, because I know you're really busy. But before I proceed, I need to make sure I have your permission to tape record.
Adeline: 01:35 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Sure.
Karana: 01:37 Good. And why don't you just tell me a little bit about you and what's brought you to the position here? You are the manager.
Adeline: 01:42 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Karana: 01:44 Okay. And I don't even know how to spell your last name.
Adeline: 01:45 Michel, M-I-C-
Karana: 01:46 Michelle, because I heard it two different ways. M-I-C-H-E-L, Adeline:. Mrs. Michel.
Adeline: 01:51 Yes.
Karana: 01:51 Yes. And so, how long have you been here?
Adeline: 01:53 30 years.
Karana: 01:55 30 years. My gosh. And started off as a volunteer, perhaps?
Adeline: 01:59 As a volunteer. And then, oh I guess, in the early 1970s, they asked if they paid me $25 a month, if I would come in and work three days a week. So I started out at $25 a month.
Karana: 02:18 Mm-hmm (affirmative). I grabbed Mrs. Copeland's. So this is a mistake. I'm going to have to scramble here. I grabbed Mrs. Copeland's file instead of the one that I methodically made up for you last night. So I'm going to be... So I'm sorry. You said for $30?
Adeline: 02:37 I worked three days a week for $25 a month.
Karana: 02:40 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Oh my gosh.
Adeline: 02:42 Well, I didn't. It wasn't for the money.
Karana: 02:44 No, of course not.
Adeline: 02:44 It was because I wanted to do something.
Karana: 02:51 And are you an army wife?
Adeline: 02:53 Yes, my husband's retired military.
Karana: 02:56 And what was his position?
Adeline: 02:59 He only saw war-time service.
Karana: 03:01 Mm-hmm (affirmative), in the army.
Adeline: 03:02 In the army, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Karana: 03:03 And so, as an army wife, you probably never lived on post per se.
Adeline: 03:03 No.
Karana: 03:03 Right.
Adeline: 03:08 No.
Karana: 03:09 So the whole idea or concept of a thrift shop, you retired out here? Or he perhaps, had a civilian job?
Adeline: 03:13 I was born here.
Karana: 03:15 You were born here. So was I.
Adeline: 03:17 You were?
Karana: 03:17 Yes. Never lived more than 80 miles from where I was born, as a matter of fact. So tell me how the thrift shop operates. How does it work?
Adeline: 03:26 Well, you know what I've done, I brought this book and if you would like to take it and go through it, a lot of things are explained in here going way back to... You're more than welcome to take it and go through everything in here.
Karana: 03:49 Well, there's questions. There's official policy. There's unofficial policy. And I guess, one question I have is how much of what you do here is regulated by, oh, I know the name of the document, for non-appropriated deregulation versus actually that you have evolved, if you will.
Adeline: 04:08 Right. In the past, there wasn't too much until 1991, when we had a problem with the manager. I could have been manager years ago, but I never wanted to be. I just wanted to work back there and do my job. She violated many rules. And that was when the IG got in on the problem. The JAG office came in to observe and we were audited.
Karana: 04:42 I see. So up until that time you were independent.
Adeline: 04:47 That's right. And we always tried to make the customer happy. And of course, we had to abide by the rules. Only the military could consign. And then, anonymous letters were written to General Mallory. There were two other letters that were signed that were sent to General Mallory. And it was a result of these letters that all of this exploded in 1991. So the chairman of the board told me either I take over as manager and straighten things out, or we would be closed down. And we couldn't have that because we were providing a good service. So that was how I became manager. I did it to solve the problem.
Karana: 05:33 And your board of directors is selected how?
Adeline: 05:35 From each unit on the post. Letterman has a representative. The dental clinic has a representative. The three generals' wives sit on the board. The post commander's wife sits on the board. We have a representative representing the volunteers from the thrift shop. And we also have a representative representing the retirees. That's basically it.
Karana: 06:00 Enlisted? Did you say the two-
Adeline: 06:01 Oh yeah, [crosstalk 00:06:02].
Karana: 06:02 Yeah, right. That's what I've got because I knew that she was connected.
Adeline: 06:05 Right.
Karana: 06:06 And so, are you a nonprofit then, technically?
Adeline: 06:10 Yes, technically we're non-profit. Everything we make goes back into the post.
Karana: 06:14 Right. And is this thrift shop typical or atypical? I mean, because I think most posts, as I understand it, have thrift shops and they serve a really important function.
Adeline: 06:24 I don't know really, about any other except maybe Treasure Island. Jean McCabe, I used to know her when she was manager of the thrift shop for Treasure Island. But of course, that's a closed post.
Karana: 06:38 Right.
Adeline: 06:38 That's something else.
Karana: 06:39 Mm-hmm (affirmative). And you said as we were walking back that a closed post means that only military can consign and use.
Adeline: 06:45 And come on post, yes.
Karana: 06:46 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right. So-
Adeline: 06:47 Whereas we are an open post.
Karana: 06:49 So anybody can come in.
Adeline: 06:49 Anybody can come in and buy, except military items. They have a restriction on that.
Karana: 06:55 Mm-hmm (affirmative). And it's probably in one of your official reports, but what kind of money are we talking about are you able to generate, because I know you put this back into post services?
Adeline: 07:05 Right.
Karana: 07:05 I mean, if that's a matter of public record, if I'm not prying or something.
Adeline: 07:10 No, no, no, no. It takes me a minute to think for-
Karana: 07:11 Because I have no idea. 20,000, 100,000?
Adeline: 07:15 I have it here in my last... Our bookkeeper is fantastic.
Karana: 07:37 While you're looking for that, what kind of people work here? What kind of people volunteer? Are they mostly army families who-
Adeline: 07:45 Right. They have to be connected with the military.
Karana: 07:48 Okay, they have to be connected, okay.
Adeline: 07:48 Right, right.
Karana: 07:55 And when you say military, you mean the army. You mean army, specifically, not navy or air?
Adeline: 08:00 No, navy and air... No, we take them. Let's see. Consignment sales in 1990 were 185,000. In '91, they were more because of the manager not following rules. One woman took out over 22,000 in one year. That was 1991. And 1992, we were still under the restriction with jewelry. It was mostly dealing with jewelry. In 1992, we took in 194,500. And now-
Karana: 08:38 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). And then, '93-
Adeline: 08:43 Yeah. See, we get 20% of this.
Karana: 08:46 Uh-huh (affirmative). 80% goes back to the-
Adeline: 08:47 Back to the consignor, right.
Karana: 08:49 Right. Door doesn't close, does it?
Adeline: 08:53 No, they took door off when they remodeled it. In 1993, we took in 211.
Karana: 09:01 And the people who consign here, Bud [Halsey 00:09:04] kind of explained this to me, but I bet you can even do a better job for the record, if you will. Because his understanding-
Adeline: 09:14 Aunt Bernice, could you go outside and talk, please?
Karana: 09:17 I'm trying to do a taped interview.
Bernice: 09:17 Excuse me. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, okay.
Karana: 09:19 Yeah, no, that's okay. Is that people cannot afford because of the shipping costs because the army will only ship so much. You can't take all your stuff.
Adeline: 09:28 Yeah, that is, yeah. That's what... Yes.
Karana: 09:28 I mean, is that typical scenario?
Adeline: 09:32 Well, yes. And we also have flea markets once a month to enable them to dispose of their excess.
Karana: 09:40 Oh, okay. But I mean, the idea is that if you've got three kids and you need a stroller and you need a playpen and you need, I don't know, whatever, a high chair, you're probably not going to take that with you unless it's a family heirloom.
Adeline: 09:51 True.
Karana: 09:51 You're going to leave it here, get your money and then pick up new things hopefully, at the next assignment, tour of duty. That's the way-
Adeline: 09:58 That's good.
Karana: 09:59 That's the way it works.
Adeline: 09:59 Precisely.
Karana: 10:00 Okay.
Adeline: 10:01 Jump over the wire, dear.
Karana: 10:04 And then, you were talking about your concerns for the future and just the National Park Service and policy and what could or could not happen here and that's very relevant. I mean, what's going to happen to this place?
Adeline: 10:17 With his place, there are so many retirees. This is their only social function. This little old lady that was just in here, she's over 90 years old. And this is their thing of the week to do, to come in just for the sociability.
Karana: 10:34 It connects them.
Adeline: 10:35 It does, yes. They don't lose ties with the military.
Karana: 10:35 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adeline: 10:38 And of course, the money is good for those that want to get out and scrounge and buy at garage sales and consign it here. We don't discriminate against that because it's more money that we can donate to all those activities.
Karana: 10:54 Mm-hmm (affirmative). And what was I going to say? Oh, gosh, I'm sorry. The donations that you make, I know Hands Across the Presidio is one of the projects that you-
Adeline: 11:05 Right. Now, up by the cash register, there's a whole list. Our bookkeeper has just prepared a new list.
Karana: 11:11 Is there an extra copy of that? Or you just posted it?
Adeline: 11:15 I don't know. You'd have to ask her. But I know we contributed more than $27,000 in 1993. We subsidized what they called the Teen Enrichment Program, which all of that is in here. This book is... We also, I don't know whether Pat Copeland told you about the computer program.
Karana: 11:39 No, we didn't talk too much because she said I could and should talk to you, that that was the best source of information.
Adeline: 11:44 The bookkeeper would have all these figures.
Karana: 11:46 A computer program. Now, what do you do?
Adeline: 11:48 For any military person, we paid the tuition.
Karana: 11:52 To go to a computer class.
Adeline: 11:53 On post, yes.
Karana: 11:54 Uh-huh (affirmative).
Adeline: 11:54 Yes.
Karana: 11:56 Mm-hmm (affirmative). And then, tell me about Hands Across Presidio, because don't you folks run that program?
Adeline: 12:00 No, we do not run it. We pay the salary for the person, but we do not run it.
Karana: 12:05 Okay. And how does that work? What is it?
Adeline: 12:07 Well, I'm not really too familiar with it. You would have to talk to Judy Brown about that. [crosstalk 00:12:12]
Karana: 12:11 Okay. Yeah, I think I have her number someplace.
Adeline: 12:14 Yeah.
Karana: 12:14 Okay.
Adeline: 12:16 She could explain that more fully. But it's really to help military personnel that cannot survive on their pay. In fact, we are allowed to donate up to $400 a month to her to buy food to distribute. And then, she gets a lot of donations.
Karana: 12:37 Now, is that still an issue with the downsizing of Presidio where there still are families that definitely need that kind of assistance?
Adeline: 12:43 I have not been able to get a true answer on that.
Karana: 12:44 Okay, yeah. Because I know, I mean, things are changing pretty dramatically, pretty quickly.
Adeline: 12:51 Yeah. This is a board decision.
Karana: 12:51 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adeline: 12:52 We as management, have no say in this.
Karana: 12:55 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adeline: 12:55 Oh, Diane, do you have a copy of all the organizations that we donate to?
Diane: 13:01 Yes.
Adeline: 13:02 Okay. Fine, thank you.
Karana: 13:04 Oh, that'd be great. That'd be great. Now, I mean, I just walked through there. That was the first time I've been there. Are there specific rules or guidelines or regulations about what you carry, what you don't carry-
Adeline: 13:14 Yes.
Karana: 13:14 ... beyond the sort of obvious? You probably don't have food, I imagine.
Adeline: 13:16 No, absolutely not.
Karana: 13:16 You probably don't have firearms, but I mean... And you have a-
Adeline: 13:20 I have a-
Karana: 13:22 Sort of written statement on that?
Adeline: 13:23 Yes. These are the items we never take.
Karana: 13:34 Okay. And is this an extra copy?
Adeline: 13:36 Yes.
Karana: 13:36 Great, okay.
Adeline: 13:37 And then, there are items that we don't take because of oversupply.
Karana: 13:41 Yeah. And that will change obviously, because time-
Adeline: 13:44 And then, this is what we have been giving out to our consignors about the closure.
Karana: 13:49 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Oh, final checks ready. And then, they only have a couple of days to cash them.
Adeline: 13:54 Exactly.
Karana: 13:55 Oh, interesting. Now, why is that? I'm just curious.
Adeline: 13:57 Because we have to close out our account.
Karana: 13:58 Oh.
Adeline: 13:59 See, everything in here that belongs to the board has to be sold off. Everything that belongs to the army has to go back to the army, which is not-
Karana: 14:09 Oh, I'm sorry, by July 31st.
Adeline: 14:09 Yes.
Karana: 14:11 So I saw the three-day period, but it just meant once a year, you have to close your books, so to speak and move on to the next fiscal year. Okay. I think this makes sense. I'm trying to think. Your workers here, you were talking about that, how important that is for them. And these people are volunteering their time and most, or I guess all of them, have to be military families, or related somehow. I assume it's mostly women, or all women?
Adeline: 14:38 Yes, all women now.
Karana: 14:40 And mostly retirees or older ones?
Adeline: 14:43 Yes.
Karana: 14:43 And what kinds of social functions besides just being here might... This is the stuff that you're not going to find in here. You know what I mean?
Adeline: 14:43 Mm-hmm (affirmative), right.
Karana: 14:51 It's like you reward your volunteers by having luncheons or special things that makes them feel more important or appreciated.
Adeline: 15:01 I don't know what has happened to all my other copies, but we a great cue card, a new one.
Karana: 15:15 And then, while you're doing that, your position is actually a paid position?
Adeline: 15:19 Yes.
Karana: 15:19 Okay. And then, there's a couple of people work like three or-
Adeline: 15:21 We have a manager, an assistant manager, the bookkeeper-
Karana: 15:31 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Of course, this is all there, but I'm just-
Adeline: 15:33 ... the cashier and the janitor.
Karana: 15:36 Janitor. And you probably use more than one cashier, right? You have several people that rotate through, or not?
Adeline: 15:41 Well, no. Well, we're only open three days a week.
Karana: 15:42 Okay, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday from...
Adeline: 15:44 From 10:00 until 2:00.
Karana: 15:45 Ah, okay.
Adeline: 15:46 And the first Saturday of the month from 9:00 until 1:00.
Karana: 15:49 Is that your flea market, that?
Adeline: 15:51 Yes.
Karana: 15:51 Okay.
Adeline: 15:51 Yes.
Karana: 15:51 And is that outside, then, or inside?
Adeline: 15:53 Yes, outside.
Karana: 15:54 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adeline: 15:55 And then, we have an office aide and she only gets 125 a month. And these are-
Karana: 16:00 No position is-
Adeline: 16:03 Let's see. Thrift shop pays bridge tolls. Two times a year, volunteers are honored with a lunch and sponsored by the thrift shop. In the spring, volunteers are honored by installation volunteer coordinator and the post commander with a certificate of appreciation.
Karana: 16:03 Oh, how nice and a reception-
Adeline: 16:19 Yeah.
Karana: 16:19 You sure? Okay. And a reception of the officer's club. Well, that's so nice. Okay. And volunteers usually work one day a week, once a month, two days, it's all different?
Adeline: 16:29 Actually, to qualify for these benefits, they should work four hours a week.
Karana: 16:34 Okay. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adeline: 16:35 However now, Marie Potter, she works eight hours a week. Anne Patent works eight. We have many that work eight hours a week.
Karana: 16:43 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Oh, that's great. Were any of these women ever recipients, or used the thrift shop themselves when they were army families, when they were raising their kids?
Adeline: 16:55 Oh, Marie, when Jackie was little, did you patronize thrift shops?
Marie: 17:00 I worked at the thrift shop.
Adeline: 17:00 Yeah.
Karana: 17:03 So I guess the point I'm trying to get at is how-
Marie: 17:04 Oh, did we? Yes.
Karana: 17:05 ... because I get the impression that, again from Colonel Halsey, that this is such an important service and that's what we're trying to understand and document. It's not just a nice thing to do and a way to raise money, which is also nice, but-
Marie: 17:17 Originally, it was an important service and started to help the enlisted family.
Karana: 17:23 Right.
Marie: 17:24 Originally, that's how thrift shops started on post.
Karana: 17:26 And how long back do thrift shops go?
Marie: 17:27 I don't know how far back.
Karana: 17:30 Because most places have them.
Adeline: 17:31 This one, I know, goes back to 1946, to the best of my knowledge.
Karana: 17:39 But I mean, they go across the nation now, don't they?
Marie: 17:42 Oh, surely. We've always had thrift shops. Even when we were stationed in Germany, we opened up a little... And this was always for the military family, to assist them in the moving, the coming and going. And your child outgrew clothes that some other child could use. I was never meant to be demeaning. It was to be helpful.
Karana: 18:05 Yeah, right.
Marie: 18:05 And that's really what it's all about.
Karana: 18:08 Well, has anyone ever taken it that way? I mean, you just don't use it if you-
Marie: 18:11 Well, thrift shops really became into being, when let's say to the hippie era then, because those were the kids who went and bought their clothes-
Karana: 18:21 Right, that's true.
Marie: 18:22 ... from the thrift shop.
Karana: 18:23 I see what you mean. Right.
Marie: 18:25 Whereas, I think maybe the other generation, because they wouldn't tell their friends, "My mother got this from the thrift shop."
Karana: 18:32 Right. No, you're right. You're right. It became kind of the new-
Marie: 18:32 Then it became a thing to do. They'd shop and get all the funny clothes, the old-fashioned clothes and big jackets and then-
Karana: 18:40 Piece of jewelry that their grandmother had [crosstalk 00:18:41].
Marie: 18:41 Absolutely, yeah.
Karana: 18:41 Great. Well, thank you. So you said you started one in Germany and that you've worked at others across-
Marie: 18:49 Oh, yeah. That's the first time we opened up. We had a little one that they opened up. And we were in Hessen. They had one in the bigger cities, but not in the smaller.
Karana: 18:57 Yeah. Well, thank you. And she's the cashier? Is that-
Adeline: 19:00 Oh, no, she's-
Karana: 19:02 One of the volunteers you said.
Adeline: 19:03 Well, but she's also on the board.
Karana: 19:05 On the board.
Adeline: 19:06 You're the volunteer or retired-
Marie: 19:08 Representative. Volunteer representative.
Adeline: 19:08 Volunteer.
Karana: 19:10 How many people do sit on the board? 10, 12?
Adeline: 19:15 Let me see. Right now, two... I can't see.
Karana: 19:20 You know, sometime it'd be real fun to get a copy of the minutes.
Adeline: 19:24 Let's see. This was November. We had two, four, six, eight. Those are the voting members.
Karana: 19:42 Right. Yeah.
Adeline: 19:44 Me and Diane, and Judy Brown, we are non-voting members.
Karana: 19:48 And I see that they are all women. I mean, it is really very much supported by women.
Adeline: 19:53 That's right.
Karana: 19:53 Right. And now, are you folks tied into the program? Pardon me, unofficially you are, but the chain of concern? Do you figure into that? Well now it's become codified by policy. I always thought it was just a army tradition where the ranking officer's wife and the ranking enlisted officer's wife would, from that point on, start, it's almost like a pyramid of taking care of the women and helping them. And so, you would be a factor in that, I would think.
Adeline: 20:26 Well, that used to be. Again, years ago, that all changed. We had a chairman of the day and she would get the volunteers. And then, that all changed. The Letterman wives would work every other Tuesday. The retirees would work on alternate Tuesdays. The enlisted wives would staff the shop every Thursday. And that's what they did. But they did away with that.
Karana: 20:54 What caused that change to occur? That wasn't to a volunteer army. Was that at that time [crosstalk 00:20:59]
Adeline: 21:00 I think it was. At that time, I wasn't really interested in all of that.
Marie: 21:04 Well, that, and were you able to get enough volunteers doing it that way. At other posts I've been at, it was sometimes a problem. So it seemed easier to go to a system where the thrift shop needs volunteers. Who would like to volunteer and on what day?
Karana: 21:22 Rather than we expect you, this group to-
Marie: 21:25 Well, it used to be... I heard what you said earlier. It was done by each command group. You had a person responsible and you saw to it that they filled... Like as Adeline: said, we used to do one group was Tuesday, one group was Wednesday, one group was... Sixth Army would be Thursday, that kind of thing, your own particular group. Then it got so I think there were women that did not want to do that. The responsibility was so great. And it was like, you were forced... When my husband was deputy of logistics, I had my group that I had to work with and say, "Okay, we need so many women at the thrift shop." It became a forced issue. It turned out that way.
Karana: 22:05 Yeah, you were really arm-twisting.
Marie: 22:06 And when you had to have so many women to do this. And so, after a while, they broke that down and then it was just like a volunteer thing for each individual to do. And we had signups when they had their luncheons. They had signup sheets [crosstalk 00:22:21]
Karana: 22:21 And you don't have a problem generating enough help, it sounds like. You-
Marie: 22:21 Sometimes.
Adeline: 22:21 Sometimes, yeah.
Marie: 22:21 Yeah.
Karana: 22:24 And you usually have a staff per day, or volunteer staff, if you will, of what? About how many, in order to open? You can't open the doors, if you don't have so many.
Adeline: 22:38 Oh, okay. One, three, five, seven, eight, nine, 10, about 15 a day.
Karana: 22:45 Wow. That's a lot of [crosstalk 00:22:47]
Adeline: 22:48 Yes, yeah.
Marie: 22:49 We will work regardless of the number. And if it gets too much for us, then Adeline: will [crosstalk 00:22:56]. This is the big work area. You can always keep the front open if there are-
Karana: 23:01 Oh, I see, for sales and stuff.
Marie: 23:02 ... for sales. But back here is where the work-
Karana: 23:04 As you price.
Marie: 23:05 [crosstalk 00:23:05] people coming in, the consignment, pricing, tagging, getting it out.
Karana: 23:09 And how do you price? I mean, that takes a lot of skill to know how to set prices. Do you have guidelines? You just kind of get to know it?
Adeline: 23:16 No, actually it's up to the consignor to set their own price, because in the past, if we set a price and it didn't sell, then the consignor would become upset. So we said, "Do not set prices for the consignor. But if you feel they're not pricing something at a reasonable price, just say, 'Well, if that were mine, I'd put this on it.'"
Karana: 23:42 I see, yeah, because that would be hard. I mean, you don't know what a stroller necessarily-
Adeline: 23:46 That's right.
Karana: 23:46 Unless these people get pretty hip, because they're going from post to post and you just had to buy a stroller at this post.
Adeline: 23:50 But you see, this thrift shop is not like any other, because we get so many dealers from [crosstalk 00:23:58]. And on the first Saturday of the month, now this is an experience. If you could come on the 5th of February and see what happens, because the people are waiting in hordes to storm in here. Our sales on a Saturday are over $3,000 in four hours.
Marie: 24:17 And also, because it is an open post, you get civilians coming on the post that will shop.
Karana: 24:22 And plus, I would think being in this area, you have more people interested in exotic things. I mean, does that affect the kind of merchandise you have, or the things you sell?
Adeline: 24:29 No, it's just a mishmash.
Marie: 24:32 Yeah, it's a mix because so many of the military members coming here have been in different parts of the world.
Karana: 24:32 Right, Kansas.
Marie: 24:38 Yeah. And well, Germany, Japan, that. And as far as shoppers go, we were getting a lot of the new immigrants coming in, Russian and Chinese coming in the store.
Adeline: 24:38 On the first Saturday.
Karana: 24:50 In to buy.
Marie: 24:50 To buy.
Karana: 24:52 In to buy.
Adeline: 24:52 And Russians that come in, that's an experience, because they don't want to give up the package. The have [crosstalk 00:25:03]. And see we make them... We don't make them. We ask them to check them and they don't want to check their packages. So now Dorothy, bless her heart, she doesn't ask them anymore. She takes the packages and gives them a ticket. Now, this they understand.
Karana: 25:20 Uh-huh (affirmative). Oh, just because they're afraid they'll never get it back again, or something.
Adeline: 25:20 Yes.
Karana: 25:20 Oh my God.
Diane: 25:23 This is the list of donations. I printed out the acronyms for some.
Karana: 25:27 Is this an extra copy?
Diane: 25:28 Yes, you can keep that.
Karana: 25:29 Oh, thank you so much. And your name is?
Diane: 25:29 I'm Diane.
Karana: 25:29 Diane.
Adeline: 25:30 Diane Soward, S-O-W-A-R-D.
Karana: 25:33 Good. Great. Well, this is wonderful. So I see that you are giving money to Soldier of the Month, I was just there at that program, Hands Across Presidio. My gosh, look at all these things. Some of these, I don't even understand. NCO of the Quarter, what would that [crosstalk 00:25:48]?
Diane: 25:48 Non-commissioned officer.
Karana: 25:49 Well, I know, but what would you do for $100? Oh, that's just like it's an honor.
Diane: 25:53 It's the same as Soldier of the Month.
Karana: 25:54 Got it. Okay. Soldier of the Year, right. Half Emergency Food Fund.
Adeline: 25:59 Hands Across Presidio.
Karana: 26:00 Okay, good. USO, SFO. Okay, got that. Oh, USO at San Francisco Airport. You're helping to... My gosh, look at all the things that you guys are doing. So some of these might be write-offs rather than cash donations? Or are they all cash?
Diane: 26:12 They're all cash donations.
Karana: 26:13 Okay. Computer classes, Family Advocacy Program.
Diane: 26:25 That was run for our new community service, and-
Adeline: 26:25 Was that the computer class?
Diane: 26:26 No, no. It may have been childcare for some of the meetings that we hold here for family management.
Karana: 26:30 Army band. I know them very well. So people would come to you, as I think I understand from Mrs. Copeland, and they give you a petition or so at your board of directors meeting and say, "The post Scout group really wants a scholarship, or something." Is that right?
Diane: 26:30 Yes.
Karana: 26:44 And then, you might turn around and-
Diane: 26:46 The board votes on it. And if it's approved, then I can make check for them.
Karana: 26:50 Right. And then, so computer classes and the Teen Enrichment are at the big numbers.
Diane: 26:55 This was the first year for Teen Enrichment program.
Karana: 26:56 And those are for teens living in-
Diane: 26:59 On the Presidio and jobs on the Presidio, we fund for I believe it's 53 teenagers this summer. And we helped-
Adeline: 27:08 We give them this.
Karana: 27:10 Great. I see that. Great.
Diane: 27:11 There were other organizations on post that helped pay for the teen volunteers.
Karana: 27:17 Yeah, Pat was saying. Pat Copeland was telling me a little bit about that., And Hispanic Heritage, just to help fund Hispanic Days, or something like that?
Adeline: 27:25 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Karana: 27:26 Yeah? That's great. And then, food baskets. Now, where would the food baskets go? I mean, again, to post families?
Diane: 27:32 That was through the chapel. So they would have the description as to who got those baskets.
Karana: 27:39 Now, what's of interest is just how much you do and this self-help program. And it's just interesting to see that.
Adeline: 27:47 Why don't you sit down, Diane?
Diane: 27:50 The next was from our expense report, things we do for volunteers here.
Karana: 27:55 Well, yeah, because that's really important. Creative Cottage Childcare, $4.50. That was a big one. Oh, Army Community Service. If somebody volunteers-
Diane: 28:10 There, then we help pay for childcare expenses.
Karana: 28:13 Oh. So if they're volunteering here you mean, then you-
Adeline: 28:13 No, no.
Karana: 28:14 No. I'm sorry.
Adeline: 28:16 Anybody volunteering at ACS, we pick up their bill.
Diane: 28:20 And the same for Red Cross.
Karana: 28:21 Oh, I see. My gosh, you guys really do a lot. Well, and perhaps you want to answer this too. We began to talk at the very beginning about where this organization is going to go and how it's going to function, or work or not work, as the post is redesigned, if you will.
Adeline: 28:39 Well, we've been given a closure day. Fabulous. I think I gave it to you there.
Karana: 28:44 Okay.
Adeline: 28:46 About where the checks have to be cashed, and so forth.
Karana: 28:49 Oh. Oh, July 31st?
Adeline: 28:53 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Karana: 28:53 Oh, I thought that was just your once-a-year-
Adeline: 28:56 No, no. That's our closure date.
Karana: 28:58 My gosh.
Adeline: 28:59 It's on a separate sheet.
Karana: 29:00 Yeah. Well, it's certainly right here. I see.
Adeline: 29:03 Yeah, there it is.
Karana: 29:04 Oh, I didn't understand that when you handed this to me. But this is your closure that by a certain time this year. My gosh. Well, is there any reprieve or possibility of-
Adeline: 29:15 Well, this is why we were hoping that somebody from the Park Service, if they're interested, would come and talk with us because Major-
Karana: 29:25 Why do you need to close? I mean, I'm just going to be devil's advocate. You know I'm a historian and I can't affect the policy, but I can make suggestions. I mean, what is the reason?
Adeline: 29:34 It's because the board of governors told us this is our closure date.
Diane: 29:39 It's a Sixth Army fund.
Adeline: 29:42 The Sixth Army fund.
Karana: 29:43 But the Sixth Army is going to maintain their headquarters.
Adeline: 29:45 Yeah, that has been our argument. But nobody even from the Park Department has come to talk with us. The Ford Point Museum Association has petitioned the Park Department-
Karana: 30:00 Park Service.
Adeline: 30:01 ... Park Service to let us continue operating under their umbrella. And as I understand it, the Park Department has not responded to any of the letters that have been-
Karana: 30:13 Oh, sorry.
Adeline: 30:13 ... that have been written.
Karana: 30:16 Okay. Let me see if I can just... I don't know whatever I can do, but it certainly seems that you serve a real important function to the community. Now, consignments would no longer be taken, then. I guess, the question would become who would be consigning here?
Adeline: 30:33 Oh, right. We have taken that into consideration. Our suggestion was the military, the Park Department employees and their families, the Museum Association and their families. Of course, most of them would have ID cards anyway. But we would still have enough people to keep this place functioning.
Karana: 30:53 Well, is there even a reason to restrict it? I mean-
Adeline: 30:58 Yes.
Karana: 30:59 There is? Okay.
Adeline: 31:01 Yes. The normal civilians are not easy to manage.
Karana: 31:04 Oh, I see. Okay. I see. Oh, I see, It almost becomes like a pawn shop, or something like that.
Adeline: 31:09 Well, just their whole attitude. When we first moved down here, we were accepting consignments from civilian employees on post.
Karana: 31:09 Oh, I see.
Adeline: 31:19 And it just didn't work out.
Karana: 31:21 Oh, interesting. Even civilian employees?
Adeline: 31:23 Right.
Karana: 31:24 Oh my goodness. Okay. Do you think that there would be enough truck, if you will, enough merchandise generated from a reduced [crosstalk 00:31:32]
Adeline: 31:32 I think it would be because even some of the volunteers said, if it's a matter of money for the Park Department, we would all be willing to contribute to stay here, to buy the refrigerator, to buy the cash register, to buy all the furnishings, the clothing racks, whatever, all the accessories. They would be willing to donate money to keep the place operating.
Karana: 31:56 And then, the service that you render is beyond to the immediate families. It's also to this just military, retired military community in general. That's what you were saying earlier.
Diane: 32:06 Well, the majority of the consignors right now are retired military.
Adeline: 32:08 Yes.
Karana: 32:11 Oh, I see. Oh, so they're regardless.
Adeline: 32:11 Yes.
Diane: 32:13 Our goal is to keep [crosstalk 00:32:14]
Karana: 32:14 Regardless, regardless.
Diane: 32:15 Another point I wanted to make is when this becomes a national park, will yard sales be allowed for the families that are living here and have to move? How do we get rid of our things that we don't need anymore? That's where the shop has been so nice. We could compare and our things and we don't have to have a yard sale and put up all the signs and worry about [crosstalk 00:32:38].
Karana: 32:37 Do you live on post?
Diane: 32:38 Yes.
Adeline: 32:40 Yes. What we do, we have what we call PCS appointments. And if we have enough of a staff, we allow the person to make an appointment at 8:30 in the morning, usually on a Wednesday morning, and they can come in and consign 50 items. And they're entitled to five appointments.
Karana: 32:59 So up to 250 items, is what you're saying?
Adeline: 33:00 Right.
Karana: 33:01 Okay. So that's a pretty good size of your household, right?
Adeline: 33:04 Exactly.
Karana: 33:04 Uh-huh (affirmative). So if she were to move, let's say, or you're moving or I'm moving, I make five different appointments two, three. I bring in my items. I sit with you for a while. Do I have to sit with you while you're going through them? Or I could just leave it and have [crosstalk 00:33:18]
Adeline: 33:18 Well, we have a rider and you bring them up separately and we have... I'll get you a contract.
Karana: 33:22 Yeah, inventory sheet or something, because I take my children's clothes to a little place that we have. I mean, I was giving these beautiful things away. And you finally go, "Gee." Because we have a Children's Seedlings to Sprouts and you take your stuff in there. My gosh, I might go in and get a check for $10 or $15. And that's better than a kick in the teeth.
Adeline: 33:44 See this is our contract.
Karana: 33:47 Okay.
Adeline: 33:47 And all our rules are on the back.
Karana: 33:49 Okay. Well, listen, is there anything I haven't asked you about the history or the function of thrift shops? I know that you're really got a tight schedule and I don't want to keep you, or even you, Diane, about just how... You've worked on other thrift shops in other posts?
Diane: 34:05 Oh, just one other one.
Karana: 34:05 Okay. And was there anything about the way that one was run that was different than say here?
Diane: 34:10 That was 10 years ago and I really don't remember.
Karana: 34:14 And that was where?
Diane: 34:15 Fort Ord.
Karana: 34:15 Fort Ord, okay, because Fort Ord is another place where you have a real high rent area.
Diane: 34:21 Yes.
Karana: 34:21 And so, the problems for the enlisted families, particularly at the lower end, is just significant, in fact. Bud Halsey was telling me that Fort Ord required enlisted people from one grade down, right down to that, they had to feed their families in the mess hall once a day, which was unheard of anywhere else. If you go into Fort Ord, or used to, and you'd walk in and see all these little kids running around, which was just... Because it's so tough. But is there anything I haven't asked you about just the way this particular operation functions or it's importance to the community? You've got all sorts of stuff here that I can look at for facts and figures, which will be great.
Adeline: 34:58 Right. There's a lot of things in here, when we moved down here, and I keep what I call a bad book.
Karana: 35:15 Oh, okay.
Adeline: 35:15 Here, here, the Teen Enrichment Program.
Karana: 35:17 Oh, yes.
Adeline: 35:18 So if you'd like to take it, but I want it back.
Karana: 35:21 I will just write you an IOU on the back of one of your contracts or something.
Adeline: 35:26 The back section is-
Karana: 35:28 Just bring it back in a week or something.
Adeline: 35:29 Yeah. It'll take you a long time to go through it.
Karana: 35:31 Yeah, I'll be on post tomorrow. But I know I won't get through it tonight.
Adeline: 35:35 Things that have happened, I would go home and tell my husband. He said, "You had better start documenting." So I started documenting all the things that have occurred. Like this one woman, she was very difficult. She ended up being arrested for bank robbery. Her husband was a retired Air Force sergeant.
Karana: 35:59 Who came in here, you mean?
Adeline: 36:00 Yeah. She was a consignor. But there's-
Karana: 36:02 But most of the people who consign with you are just probably, I mean, [crosstalk 00:36:06]
Adeline: 36:05 Yeah, nine out of 10 are great. Nine out of 10 are great, yeah.
Karana: 36:07 Then there's the one, just like any population.
Adeline: 36:12 Right. And there's thank you notes in here.
Karana: 36:13 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Great.
Adeline: 36:14 So if you'd like to take this.
Karana: 36:15 I would. And let me see. I didn't even think to bring blank letterhead, but something that I can give you a little note just saying I have it. Thank you so much for your time.
Diane: 36:28 Yeah. So [inaudible 00:36:28] notepaper here.
Adeline: 36:31 Yeah. Just write down your name and address and phone number.
Karana: 36:33 Okay. See, normally, I would have had one of these for you, but I just ran out of them. I'll show you what I mean, what we can call release form. But when I bring you back the transcription, then I'll get you-
Adeline: 36:33 This goes-
Karana: 36:48 This is like what Pat Copeland signed. We can use the material and you have a chance to look through
Adeline: 36:52 Okay. This one goes way, way back when we were up at the other building, but there's...
Karana: 36:58 Now, what's the other building?
Adeline: 36:59 It was building 563. It was right inside Lombard Street Gate.
Karana: 37:03 And bigger, smaller? I assume it was-
Adeline: 37:05 Yeah, I thought it was larger. They tell me no, but the layout was different.
Karana: 37:10 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adeline: 37:14 Now, this building originally was a stable.
Karana: 37:17 Yeah. I thought that this was the area of the stables. And this probably makes it an eight... I haven't really looked at it. 1880s or something?
Adeline: 37:25 I would think so. I don't know. It tells you [crosstalk 00:37:28]
Karana: 37:29 I have a history actually, of the buildings on post. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what. Again, I'm coming down once a week. I would guess this would take me at least a week to look through. So can I have it for two weeks, should we say, just to be safe here? And let me see. And I'm going to tell you my boss's name, just if you ever have a question or something. Steve Haller is the historian for the Presidio. And he's up in 20... Wait a minute. This is 204. 102. Is that right? You know that big, long line?
Adeline: 38:02 It properly is. I don't know.
Karana: 38:03 Right where the old parade ground is. Okay, that's my name and my address in Petaluma.
Adeline: 38:08 Okay.
Karana: 38:08 And this is my phone number, (707) 763-5447. I'm National Park Service. Steve Haller again, is my boss on this project, just so you know.
Description
A social discussion about the presidio of San Francisco involving the thrift shop that was located there.
Date Created
01/27/1994
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