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W. Edwin Riggs | Oral History
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W. Edwin Riggs was interviewed on February 23, 2005 in St. George, Washington County, Utah by Milton Hokanson, a representative of the Grand Canyon-Parashaunt National Monument Oral History Project. He related his father’s experiences ranching on the Arizona Strip.
MH: Explain what your father, Ted Riggs, did around the [Grand Canyon]-Parashaunt [National] Monument on the Arizona Strip. I am [interested in] hunting and wildlife stories.
ER: He was the [United States] government trapper on the [Arizona] Strip. His [area] covered from the Grand Canyon north in Arizona. He [did] predator control. He controlled the predators [by] spreading a lot of poison over the [Arizona] Strip for the cattlemen. [The government] had him trap the lions on the Kaibab [Plateau] as well as on Mt. Trumbull and the [Arizona] Strip area. As the population of the lions went down, the deer herds responded and [increased].
MH: What time frame was this?
ER: [It] would have been in the 1940s, 1950s [and] up through the 1960s. He was out there thirty-seven years, I think.
MH: What is the biggest [mountain] lion he ever trapped?
ER: I have a picture of him standing holding a lion. He has his front shoulders and head over his chest and [the body] goes over his back. The [lion’s] tail drags the ground behind him. That was a big lion!
MH: Were coyotes a major problem out there?
ER: They were, and many of the cattlemen will verify that. I spent a lot of time with him trapping [them]. They used the 10-80 poison [predator repellant] at that time. We spread a lot of that [poison] in the winter and set [critter] gitters. They were called gitters. You pound a tube into the ground and put the bait on top of it with the .357 magnum shell in [loaded] with cyanide. When [the coyote] pulled up on the bait that we had put on top, [the shell] would go off in their mouth. They would go off and die.
MH: You might add that while the coyote population may have been reduced some, there is still an adequate population [out] there today.
ER: Plenty! They are an adaptive animal. I have trapped, hunted and called them. I have so much respect for that animal. They are so smart. They can dig your sets
out because they know your traps are there. They can smell it. They will come in, work around, get it out and take your bait away. They are just smart. I have had them come in [on a] call and as soon as you move to get up into position to shoot, they look at you. The expression on their face is unbelievable. It is just like, “Oh, my gosh!” [Laughter] They turn inside out and are gone!
MH: Besides the coyote and the [mountain] lion, what else was trapped out there? Foxes?
ER: Yes, some foxes have been caught. But the fox really wasn’t [a] damaging factor. He caught a lot of bobcats, a lot of coyotes and [mountain lions]. The coyotes and [mountain] lions were the main predators. The coyotes really raised Cain with the cattlemen and the deer were hit hard by the [mountain] lions. The coyotes didn’t do damage to the deer. The [mountain] lions did and [it was] the other way around in the sheep herds. Back then, they used to have big sheep herds. They would drive them out there and then drive them clear back into Utah. They had the big driving lanes [where] they would move them through. Those coyotes would get in a herd of sheep and would just tear it to pieces.
MH: They would go right through it! You grew up in Kanab [Kane County, Utah]. When did you move to St. George?
ER: My wife and I moved to St. George in 1965. We left Kanab actually in 1963, the year we were married, but we [moved to] St. George in 1965.
MH: Did your father ever move to St. George or did he stay in Kanab?
ER: He lived in Kanab and Mesquite [Nevada]. He lived in Kanab and then after he and mother split, they divorced, and dad lived in Mesquite. We lived in St. George for two years when I was in elementary school [and moved] back to Kanab. But, other than that, he lived in Kanab and then finished up his life down in Mesquite.
MH: It sounds like your father was reasonably successful in reducing the [mountain] lion population and coyotes [and] getting rid of the predators. What was the result of that?
ER: The result was the deer herd responded, multiplied and grew. [It] gave [the] bucks time to mature. [Because of] the diet [heavy] in calcium deposits they have out there, the mass of their horns would get heavy. There were huge trophy bucks to be had out there. The cattlemen were happy because their calf crop survived. That was the reason.
MH: That is interesting. You think the reason for the trophy animals on the [Arizona] Strip is due to the diet? What is in that diet?
ER: I believe [so], yes. If they can get some maturity, six or seven years old, the body of those Arizona Strip bucks looks almost like a beef. I have shown you some pictures today of that big buck. At the time dad killed that buck in 1965, he was in [a] contest in Las Vegas [Nevada]. They used to have big buck contests down there. At that time, the Silver Nugget [Casino] had the best contest. Dad took that buck down. It hung in the tree for two days and it had its legs cut off at the first joint to field dress it. It hung for that period of time. I went with him down to Las Vegas to enter it into [the] contest and he took every prize down there. He took the longest horn, the most points, the widest skull [and] the heaviest deer. After hanging and being field dressed the way it was dressed, that buck weighed in at 234 pounds in Las Vegas. That was a big buck!
MH: What happened to the big buck? Where is he now?
ER: The head [was] bought by the Mule Deer Museum in Ennis, Montana. It hangs in that museum. It is owned by a gentleman by the name of Don Shofler. He has it hanging in that museum. I believe it was in 1991 [that] dad was inducted into the Mule Deer Hall of Fame as the first inductee. That was by the Rocky Mountain Mule Deer Federation.
MH: [There] had to [be] a lot more than just that big buck. Apparently your dad took a lot of big bucks over the years.
ER: Over the span of his lifetime, dad took at least forty thirty-inch mule deer. When you [can] get thirty inches [of horn span], that is a big buck. At first, when those bucks started maturing, people wouldn’t believe him that they were there. So he started bringing in some of the big ones during the season. All of a sudden, people in California heard about them. They came up and hired him as a guide. He would take [leave time] off [during] hunting [season]. He would guide hunters and try to put them into areas [where] there [were] big bucks. During that period of time, he would always wait until right at the end until after he had filled up his hundred before he would fill his tag. Over that period of time, he took forty thirty-inch [bucks]. I don’t have all of those heads but I do have a few of them. They are beautiful heads [and] I have the prettiest ones. He kept [the] big pretty ones. I [also] have a set of locked horns that he found out on the Kaibab [Plateau]. Jonas Brothers [Taxidermy] out of Denver [Colorado] was a big company. They scored them and said that [the horns] scored as the world record of locked horns because one is thirty-four inches wide and [the other] one is thirty-seven inches wide and they are locked. I have that [inaudible].
MH: What was the make and caliber of gun your dad used?
ER: Dad used the old [Winchester] model .70-272 [and] swore by it. He used the .30-30 for years and years and years. But he [started using] that 272 and used [it for] absolutely everything from then on. He was a good shot [with] it, too.
MH: [Did he use a] scope or iron sights?
ER: Iron sights at first and I still have that gun, his first 272. Well, I gave it to my son. Then he went to a scope. For example, I had that iron sight and he had his new scope and we were hunting. [We] came out on a ridge and there was a big buck down next to a patch of oak. I can still see [the buck] plain as day and he said, “That is your buck. You take him.” I had the iron sights and so I shot. The buck didn’t move and I [had] hit way low on him. So I shot again. I hit up closer. The third time I shot and hit right under his feet. That startled him and he whirled and started around that oak. Dad shot [and] took him [down]. [Laughter] I still have that head. I have [it on display] down at Hurst’s Sport Center [in St. George]. He was thirty-six inches wide.
MH: Where did your dad take [down the] big [buck] that is in Ennis, Montana?
ER: He took it out on Kelly Point.
MH: On Kelly Point, that far out? You [fellows] used to hunt that far out? That is way out on the Parashaunt.
ER: A lot of the time we camped at [Fernard LeMoyne] “Buster” [Esplin’s in] those old cabins that are there by his place. If we didn’t stay there, a lot of times we stayed in the cabin up at Horse Valley. We would go in a week before the hunt and fix it all up [with] tarpaper [to] make it windproof and thatch the roof. Or we would stay down under Snap [Point] in that cabin down there. We did stay at Oak Grove and we have stayed at [Reed] Mathis’s old [Pine Spring] Ranch. Right now it is about to fall down. It is a shame.
MH: There is some talk about going in and restoring [it].
ER: That would be good.
MH: I think that may be done. What about other hunting on the [Arizona] Strip? I know there are some antelope [out there].
ER: There are. In fact, last year they estimated that one of the bucks running on the [Arizona] Strip was [of] world record class. Hunters were really trying to find him and I don’t know if they did. But there have been some [very] nice antelope taken off of there. Dad guided some hunters for desert bighorn [sheep] down under Snap [Point] and in the ledges down towards [inaudible].
MH: I thought they were reintroduced over on the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Are the populations [increasing]? Are they starting to give out a lot of permits?
ER: They are [giving] some permits. Years ago, they had one permit. I don’t know if it was a governor [who] purchased or [not], but dad guided [the group] down under Snap [Point] into those ledges clear down by the [Colorado] River and Lake Mead. Now that has been taken into the park so you can’t hunt where they hunted. But they didn’t kill one. They saw quite a few ewes and lambs but they didn’t see a big ram so they came out empty handed.
MH: Talk about how much [of a] trophy producer the Arizona Strip has become in the last twenty years.
ER: It is one of the most desired mule deer trophies and draws in the whole western United States.
MH: How many permits do they allow a year?
ER: I haven’t drawn [a permit] for seventeen years! Seventeen straight years I have put in and I haven’t [been] drawn.
MH: With your last name and you can’t get a permit!
ER: I can’t get a permit! My son has [been] drawn and just before dad died he drew two years in a row. The first year he drew [a] tag; that head is [on display at Hurst’s Sport Center in St. George]. [It is] thirty-six and a half inches wide. It is a big, beautiful buck. My son was with [my dad]. I was home sick with the [influenza]. I [went] out there that afternoon to try to hunt with them the next day and they came back into camp [with the buck]. My son drew the next year and so did dad. The [head] [my son] has in his home [is] thirty-two and a half inches wide. Dad’s was twenty-nine inches wide but [very] heavy, really heavy. But I haven’t drawn for seventeen years! I put in every year! [Laughter]
MH: You might explain how that works. You have to put in to draw, [and] if you are out of state it is rather expensive to get a permit if you are selected.
ER: It is. When we were first hunting it out there in the 1960s, they had 3,500 permits. Now they have forty or fifty. Until last year they held [permits for] out of state non-resident [and] only ten percent of the permits could be non-resident permits. Now they have changed the law and they will be tossed in the pot so it will be an equal basis for residents and non-residents. But yes, it is expensive now. We used to [get a permit to] hunt [on the Arizona Strip] for $25.00. Now it is about $275.00.
MH: That is just for the permit?
ER: Yes. Then you have to buy your license and [it] is $126.00. So it is expensive.
MH: I understand that there are people who are paying substantial sums for the opportunity to hunt on the [Arizona] Strip and they use guides. Who is guiding out there now?
ER: They have several guides; some [are] out of Kanab. The Bundys still do some guiding out there. I have had a lot of people want me to guide [but] I haven’t done it. I haven’t had the time plus, I have my own hiding holes [and] when I draw that permit [laughter] after seventeen years I want to go in there! But there are some guides out of Flagstaff [Arizona] and [the] Phoenix [Arizona] area that work with the local ranchers to gather information and they will bring their people up. Those people probably pay $10,000.00 or $15,000.00 for a guided hunt. They sell a governor tag every year. That person can hunt through archery, muzzle loader and rifle seasons. He has a whole lot of time to find his trophy. But he will probably [pay] $50,000.00 to $75,000.00 for that privilege. That money all goes back into [the United States Fish and] Wildlife Services. It has turned into quite an [event].
MH: As a hunting resource, do you think the [Arizona] Strip is doing alright? Is there something that should be done to bring it up? Do you think the program is about where it should be?
ER: When they had a lot of permits, before they hunted it down, they pulled all the predator management off of it. Now you can go out there and there are not that many deer.
MH: I have been told there are some big bucks, but the deer herd size has dropped considerably.
ER: It has dropped and you have to have fawns to replace the big horns. So it is down. They don’t have a government trapper [for] mountain lions to go in and be paid [for] putting forth the effort to get those animals. The professional [mountain] lion hunters paid it.
MH: You can get a permit to hunt [mountain] lions.
ER: You can get a permit to hunt but your [mountain] lion hunters, your guides with hounds, hate it because [the mountain lions] can drop off [the Hurricane] Rim. [The hounds] will be running a [mountain] lion and he will drop off that rim into the [Grand Canyon National] Park and their hounds go with him. They cannot go down and take the [mountain] lion because it has dropped into the park. You never used to see [mountain] lions out there after dad went in and trapped [them]. Now you hear stories all the time [from] people out there on archery hunts [of mountain] lions coming to the water [or they have] seen a [mountain] lion along the road. I have nothing against the [mountain] lion as long as they are controlled. If you are going to control everything else you have to control them
too. I don’t want them annihilated but there are too many of them for [the deer] herd to bounce back.
MH: It sounds like your dad started sort of a legacy. You still like to hunt. It sounds like your sons are hunting. Is it a family affair when someone gets a permit now?
ER: Yes! See those pictures up there? That was last year. I drew an elk tag across the river over on Unit 10 [on the Arizona Strip]. I went down with my son and my son-in-law. That big bull is the one I got down there. If one of us would ever draw again we would all go together as a family because we all love the [Arizona] Strip. We still go out and turkey hunt. My son archery hunts over on [Unit]
13-A. You cannot archery hunt on [Unit] 13-B which is the area where [the] big bucks are.
MH: That is Parashaunt.
ER: Yes, [Unit] 13-A is over on Mt. Logan and Mt. Trumbull. He archery hunts [there] and has come close to several big ones but didn’t present a shot. The buck was there and he was close enough to shoot if he could have gotten a clear shot with his bow. He hasn’t taken a big one with his bow down there.
MH: When were the turkeys brought in?
ER: I don’t remember but they seemed to be doing [fairly] well out there until three years ago. Then the population really dropped. I don’t remember what the [United States] Fish and [Wildlife Services] thought caused [the decline]. It was fun to drive up [to] the reservoirs and have fifty turkeys run up the hill away from you! I am glad they are there. The main predator on a turkey population is a bobcat, one of the cougars.
MH: I am sure there are a bunch of them out on the [Arizona] Strip.
ER: There will be now.
MH: You can get a license and hunt bobcats legally.
ER: Right, you can.
MH: Is there much of that going on out there?
ER: Not a lot of it, no. There is not much predator control out there now except for the old avid coyote callers. Of course, you can call in bobcats too, but if you call in a [mountain] lion and don’t have a tag, you cannot do anything about it. You have to let him go. But if you have a tag, you can call [the mountain] lions in. I don’t care to call them in. It makes the hackles [hairs] stand up on my neck but they will come!
MH: Talk about when you [went] out hunting [and] set up a camp. How long would you [stay]? Obviously, until you got what you were after! It sounds like that was an adventure, just going out and camping.
ER: [It] was a priority with us and my son was of legal age to go with me when we first were drawing those tags. It wasn’t hard to draw them. As soon as he [became] of age, back then [the earliest] age was fourteen, he could have a tag. He would have a tag, I would have a tag and dad would have a tag. I told him, “As long as you keep your grades up I will take you out with me on that hunt.” I went to the principal and told the principal [that] I would take him for the whole ten days. We would go out there and stay. His last principal said, “I just wish more dads would do that with their sons.” Now, with all the rules and regulations, I couldn’t get him out of school to do that. He would take his homework [out there]. We would hunt all day. While dad and I were fixing dinner, he would be doing his homework [by] the lantern. He was a straight A student, too.
MH: Did you use horses or ATVs [All Terrain Vehicles]?
ER: One time we used the horse, never [used] ATVs. One time we took horses out down under Snap [Point] and hunted that lower country but [we did this] just one time. We ended up not taking an animal until we went back to the old walk-six- inches-off-the-bottom-of-your-legs-while-you-are-out-there kind of a deal! [Laughter]
MH: [Laughter]
ER: We went back to mainly [traveling on] foot [to] get [the scent of an animal] and track him down. We would check the waters and what [animals] had been in that night. If one [left] a sizable track, we would put on our backpacks and head off after it.
MH: Did many of the local ranchers out there hunt?
ER: Not that many. No, they didn’t. They would tell us where they had seen animals but they didn’t hunt that much. “Buster” Esplin and the Atkins never did. [Jonathon Deyo] “Slim” Waring who was there —
MH: Do you remember “Slim?”
ER: Yes.
MH: Now there was a character!
ER: Yes, “Slim” and Mary [Beth Waring].
MH: Maybe they hunted off season!
ER: Yes. They ate venison but they didn’t hunt trophies. [Laughter] Dad told me [a story about him]. You know how old “Slim” was, he always [used] very colorful language. He told dad there was just no way in hell he could call a coyote with that little squeaker box. “Slim” says, “Nothing will come in.” Dad said, “Well, you bring a gun anyway.” He said, “No, I don’t need a gun!” Dad said, “Bring a gun.” So “Slim” went in and got his .300 magnum. [Laughter] He said, “If one comes in I will get him. I still don’t believe you can do it.” So dad took him out north of the ranch and set him on the point of that knoll. Then he moved off to the side a little bit and called. Sometimes you [can] get [a coyote] to come in and sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you get a group or a single [one]. It couldn’t have been timed any better. Five [coyotes] came in running neck and [neck]. One would get ahead and then [another] one would bust out ahead. They came running in there. Dad said he [was] giggling so hard and looked over at “Slim.” “Slim’s” eyes were as big as saucers! [Laughter] He turned around with that .300 magnum and started [shooting]. Dad said, “Hey, let them get on in.” [“Slim”] said, “Hell, with you. I am not letting them get any closer.” [Laughter]
MH: Did he get [one]?
ER: I don’t remember if he did or not.
MH: [He] made a lot of noise at any rate!
ER: He probably scared one to death with that [gun]!
MH: That is a great story. What is the funniest thing that ever happened to you [while] out there hunting?
ER: I can tell you a funny [story about] dad. I don’t know if you want this on the tape or not.
MH: We can edit it. Don’t worry about it.
ER: He needed to use the bathroom and there was an old abandoned trough there. He went over and sat on it just like you would a toilet seat and let it drop. When it dropped all of a sudden ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. He dropped it down on a big old rattlesnake! [Laughter]
MH: I bet he moved in a hurry! [Laughter]
ER: He left! [Laughter] We have had some joyful times out there!
MH: Do most of the hunters who go out there know and understand the [Arizona] Strip? Do they get into trouble or have problems?
ER: Anymore, I think most of them understand. We never did take four-wheelers out there. We never have. I haven’t been out there hunting for so long. I haven’t been out to see if the four-wheelers are doing damage out there. They can really do some damage if they are spinning [the] tires.
MH: They can if they are used inappropriately.
ER: We always used to pull off the road and tuck our pickup out of sight when we would call coyotes. We never did any damage, but I don’t know if you can even pull off [the road] out there now. I think you are supposed to stay right on the [road].
MH: You are supposed to stay on the roads although you can turn around, I suspect.
I have a couple of questions I always ask everybody I talk to. The first one is sort of odd. What is it about the Arizona Strip that all of you people who have spent any time out there at all [feel that] it is a special place to you, special above and beyond all other [places? To people who have never been there, they really don’t understand this tie to the [Arizona] Strip. To a person, everybody I have talked to has a very soft spot for the Arizona Strip. Any thoughts on why that is?
ER: There is no place like it. [Laughter] I don’t know how to explain it other than it is desolate. You are out there a long ways. I learned from dad. Dad would almost carry a whole new truck in the back of his truck so, when he broke down, he could fix it. My son laughs at me today because, when I head [to] the [Arizona] Strip, I am prepared to be in trouble. I take plenty of food, plenty of water and I never leave without at least two spare [tires] for my outfit.
You asked about the funniest thing that happened to me out there. I guess it isn’t funny, but it is now. I took my son and one of his friends and headed out. We were going to go [coyote] calling. We went down into Mule Canyon and [it] is a rocky, rough son-of-a-gun and broke a tire. So I was down to one spare. We got back out of there and went over [to] Snap. [This] was before Snap Canyon had been bladed very well and it was a rocky son-of-a-gun. I broke another tire. So I had no spare [tires]. We came back up on top and were right at “Buster” [Esplin’s], right at Parashaunt, and ran a rock through another tire. No spare [tire and] it was dark by then. We were headed back in. I was just fit to be tied. I didn’t know what we were going to do. I had a roll of duct tape and decided [to] see if I [could] fill [the] hole with duct tape. I wadded it up with the sticky side out and made a ball of it. The hole was a good-sized hole. I wadded up a good ball of [duct tape and] stuck it in. I always carried one of those little pumps that you [can] plug into the cigarette lighter. I [would] pump [the] tire up and it would spit [the] ball of tape out! I would add more [tape] to [the ball] and put it back in. [After] the third or fourth time, it stayed. I pumped it up and figured, if I have to do this every mile, it is better than walking seventy-five miles! [Laughter] We came [back to St. George] with that wad of duct tape in there.
MH: You [came] all the way [back] to town? That is a good seventy [or] seventy-five miles!
ER: [We came] all the way back to town. I went out [to my driveway] the next morning and [the tire] hadn’t lost a pound of pressure! [Laughter]
MH: [Laughter] That is one for Ripley[s Believe It Or Not]!
ER: Can you believe [we drove back] on a duct tape plug?
MH: The other question I always ask, and before I do I will throw a pre-question in. Do you think they ought to pave the roads in the [Grand Canyon-Parashaunt National] Monument?
ER: I do not think they should pave the roads in the monument.
MH: Fair enough. Now the [other] question. Now that the monument exists and is a fact, do you have any ideas on how it ought to be managed and administered?
ER: I have always been an advocate of multiple uses. I don’t think the hunting should be taken away from it. I don’t think the managed cattle grazing should be taken away from it. I don’t think the game animals should be taken away from it. I think it should have multiple uses. I think [the land] should be used and enjoyed. That is why people love it ─ because you can get out there. You can just be there. Yet it can be utilized by the cattlemen, by the hunters, by environmentalists, [just] anybody. I could be an environmentalist myself. I just don’t go to the extreme. I will do whatever I can do to protect it. [When] we are going down a road and we see somebody’s beer can or pop bottle, we always stop and pick it up. That is one thing dad taught us. You don’t leave any trash out [there]. We take care of it. I think that is why people love it: because they enjoy it, they are a part of it and it has a place in your heart.
[END OF TAPE]
Description
W. Edwin Riggs was interviewed on February 23, 2005, in St. George, Washington County, Utah by Milton Hokanson, a representative of the Grand Canyon-Parashant National Monument Oral History Project. He related his father’s experiences ranching on the Arizona Strip.
Credit
NPS
Date Created
02/23/2005
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