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Oral History Project - Saunders, Lorraine Gwinn 1983 Part 2
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These interviews are presented here in their original form, unmodified, in an effort to preserve and share the history of our park and its surrounding area. The memories, comments, and viewpoints shared by interviewees in the materials of the New River Gorge Oral History Project and related documents do not represent the viewpoints of the National Park Service.
Interview # NRGNPP 051
File NRGNPP 051-T 701
Mrs. Lorraine Gwinn Saunders
National Park Service
December 1, 1983
JW: She was from Bland County, Virginia?
LS: Yes, and she was visiting my dad's sister. My dad's sister had married my mother's uncle.
JW: OK. Sounds confusing.
LS: Sounds confusing, but she was visiting there and dad was there and that's where she met him. So Aunt Beal was her aunt and her sister—in—law.
JW: Uh—huh! OK, referring back to the Gorge area, we talked about Thurmond. What was Quinnimont like?
LS: Oh, it was a nice town. They had nice homes there. And I remember the Ash leys so well. He was a conductor on the road he was conductor. And I used to date Oswell, his son, Oswell Ashley. They had a beautiful big white home up there. They had a nice station, nice homes.
JW: What was the hotel like there at Quinnimont?
LS: Well, that I don't remember.
JW: How about the big iron furnace there? Do you remember seeing it?
LS: No.
JW: Did you ever come down to Hinton much when you were living up there?
LS: Yes. When we were children, six or eight years old, maybe younger, we used to visit… dad's sister used to live here - the Elmores. He was conductor on the railroad, George Elmore.
JW: What do you remember about Hinton back then?
LS: It was a beautiful place because we were from the country. And, ah, I know one night I was up here and I was about six or eight and, ah, my aunt had to go somewhere. Somebody got sick. So, during the night, I heard a noise. I guess it was a rat … rats. I called up George and he said, “Lo, are you afraid?” And I said yes. He said, “Do you want to come in here and sleep with me?” I was out of that bed before you could turn around. I was in there jumpin' in bed with him. But they were so… they were wonderful to us. When we had the flu or got sick in the country, Aunt Ella was the first one there.
JW: So you had a very close family then?
LS: Had a close… uh—huh.
JW: So if somebody got sick, there was always another relative to come take care of them.
LS: Oh, yes. We all had the flu at one time except dad. And he kept going because he drank wine. (laughter)
JW: Oh, really. That's interesting.
LS: Used to make their own wine. But Aunt Ella came down and stayed until we were well.
JW: OK. You said he kept going because he drank wine? Tell me about that.
LS: Oh, we had a cellar there at the home in McKendree and dad made wine all the time and kept it.
JW: Oh, really? Did the nursing students find out about that?
LS: Well, the doctor used to give him some… what do you call that deal… that White Lightning?
JW: Oh, moonshine?
LS: It wasn't exactly moonshine. It was that pure alcohol, you know, that they used.
JW: Oh, pure alcohol.
LS: That' s when Dr. Goodman was there. And he'd get a little bit too much sometimes. They'd put some pink coloring in it so anybody couldn't tell, you know. He' d take a trip down to McKendree Hospital ever once in a while and get a little pink liquid.
JW: Your father would go down there?
LS: Uh—huh, oh, yes. Of course, he knew all the doctors and…
JW: And he'd get some of that pure alcohol?
LS: Yeah.
JW: What was that, ethyl alcohol?
LS: Uh—huh.
JW: And he'd put a little pink…
LS: Pink … then you could dilute it then, you see.
JW: Now what did he do with that?
LS: In fact, I've had some of it myself (laughter).
JW: How did you like that?
LS: Wasn't bad, put a little glycerine in it to cut the… to put a little glycerine in it. Now that was just before I graduated.
JW: Oh, really? You mentioned they were pretty strict about and drinking. smoking
LS: Oh, yes. We didn't smoke or drink.
JW: You didn't know anybody that smoked there?
LS: No, except one girl. She was the doctor's niece and we thought she was terrible.
JW: But you didn't try any of that
LS: No, I didn't smoke until after I went out west.
JW: The alcohol there, was this the nurses' concoction there?
LS: Oh, yes. When we were in the operating room, we could take it.
JW: Oh, really? I hope not till after the surgery was over with?
LS: Oh, no. You know, we had the bottles and fixed things up.
JW: What was your prescription again, now. You would have what?
LS: Put a little glycerine in it and a little water in it.
JW: What percentage did you have in it?
LS: Oh, that was a hundred percent alcohol that we'd get. Then we’d… you know…
JW: How much glycerine would you put in it?
LS: Just a little bit.
JW: And how much water?
LS: Not too much (laughter).
JW: Oh, really? That must have been a potent…
LS: … I don 't remember now, because it's been so long ago.
JW: And the nurses drank that stuff?
LS: Yes. And then another time we were put on campus, my roommate and I, for something or other. But anyway, she made us sit in her office and she was out strolling the grounds somewhere. So, we found some peanuts and things in her office and we ate all that. Then we found her cap and we destroyed her cap. She never did find that out. (laughter)
JW: How did you destroy it?
LS: We took it and… we took it home and threw it away.
JW: You got back at her, huh? Did it have the pin and everything on it?
LS: Yeah.
JW: Did you keep the pin?
LS: Not the pin, no… no, you didn't put pins on caps. It was on the uniforms.
JW: Oh, I didn't know that. You said your father made wine. I'm curious about the statement where you said he didn't get the flu because he drank wine.
LS: No. One year we had typhoid and, of course, I stayed at home and dad had the walking typhoid. He kept going and the doctor came up there and took care of me. But it's a wonder I hadn't died because in the summer time we had corn and beans and I could see the dining room from my bedroom. And I asked my sister to bring me a little bit and, of course, I was on a liquid diet. Then they didn't give you anything. And she brought me some and, of course, I had a relapse and they had to call the doctor. But we never did tell that she give me anything to eat. But I didn't die. I lived through it.
JW: Oh, that' s good. Oh, speaking of that well, before I get to that, I want to ask one more question. Did your father actually make the wine in his basement?
LS: Oh, yes. We had grapes, you see.
JW: Oh, he fermented it himself?
LS: Oh, yes. Oh, we always had wine.
JW: Oh, really. What, he'd drink so much a day and…
LS: Yes.
JW: And you said he attributed this to not catching the flu?
LS: I think so, uh—huh.
JW: How much would he drink a day?
LS: Oh, not much. Just when he…
JW: Just one glass?
LS: Yes. No, he didn't drink much.
JW: Did he sell any at the hospital?
LS: Oh, no!
JW: He'd just go up there to get the alcohol?
LS: Yeah, when he wanted something stronger, he'd…
JW: Oh. How much did they sell it to him for, or do you know?
LS: They didn't sell it, they just gave it to him.
JW: Oh, they did.
LS: Then, of course, we'd go over to Prince a lot and one time we'd gone over there and they were having a murder trial in the Post Office. So, we stayed with dad and when we got home, why, I was telling my dad about it and I think he had had a drink too much and he really got after me for going over there, yes. He said he never wanted me to go over there anymore. And I didn’t.
JW: It was a murder trial? You were talking about being sick one time when you ate some candy?
LS: Oh, yes. That was, again, I can't think of the man 's name that worked in the bank in Thurmond and one of the supervisors had a crush on him. And, of course, he was a patient up there. And, he'd given her a big box of candy, or had a big box of candy for the nurses. And, I think my sister had a hand in this. She and this supervisor but crouten oil in it, got a syringe and but crouten oil in the candy.
JW: Now, what is crouten oil? Is that c—r—o—a—t—i—n?
LS: C—r—o—u—t—e—n, crouten oil . It's a very… it's a laxative, very powerful.
JW: Uh—huh. So they injected this into the candy
LS: In the candy and, of course, when I went in… I like candy and I ate too much of it. In fact, I think I took a piece or two out on the floor. And then I started vomiting.
JW: How fast did it hit you?
LS: Oh, it didn't take long! Oh, ten or fifteen minutes, I was sick enough to die and they had to pump my stomach and work on me. But they never did find out who it was that did it.
JW: You suspect your sister, though?
LS: Yeah. I think she had a hand in it. She didn't know I was going to get any candy. They meant it for someone else, you see.
JW: Oh, you mentioned something… go ahead.
LS: No, that's about all…
JW: You told me something about some apples, I think, somewhere down the line.
LS: That was another time. My brother was dating one of the nurses and they'd gone over to Oak Hill and this nurse went with them, Miss Skaggs. We didn't care too much for her. And when they came back, it was around midnight, and my roommate and I put on sheets and when she got to the top of the steps, we just walked out each one from our rooms. And she fainted and went back over the steps; fell down over the steps. And all those apples I can just hear them hit tin' the steps now.
JW: Did it hurt her?
LS: Yes. She was bruised right good. But they never did find out who did that.
JW: You had a mask on?
LS: Then in the winter time, we’d go in the kitchen, big kitchen in there, and turn on the fans just for the fun of it.
JW: Turn on the fans?
LS: The fans… big fans in there. And…
JW: Would it get things real cold?
LS: Just to have something to do.
JW: What did they cook with, coal?
LS: Yes.
JW: They heated the place with coal?
LS: Uh-huh.
JW: In the operating room, how did they sterilize everything? Did they have an autoclave there or something?
LS: Well, we didn't have an autoclave. We had big sterilizing…
JW: Did you use steam?
LS: Uh-huh.
JW: And that was all heated by coal?
LS: Coal. Uh—huh. As well as I remember now. I guess we did have an autoclave then. It's so far. But we had to fix… do all our syringes and needles and patch gloves, and things like that.
JW: Oh, you had to patch gloves?
LS: Oh, yes.
JW: How did you patch gloves?
LS: We had those little patches that we'd but them on. We didn't dare throw gloves away. We did that for years, even at Beckley Hospital.
JW: These are probably thicker rubber than you use today.
LS: Yes. They just started throwing them away in… let's see, about 1940… in the Forties. Because I patched gloves when I first went to Bedford, Virginia.
JW: And sharpened needles?
LS: Oh, yes.
JW: What would you sharpen a needle on?
LS: We had a little sharp little whetrock, or whatever you call it, special equipped to sharpen a needle.
JW: Let me ask two more questions and that will be it. What do you think was the most difficult time that you had at McKendree Hospital?
LS: Looking back, I don't think I had a very difficult time. It was all fun and it was interesting. I always did like nursing.
JW: What do you think is your greatest accomplishment there? What do you feel best about doing there?
LS: At McKendree Hospital? Well, we were studying and learning. We had to study so much and we all made good grades with the State Board. Not a girl every one passed her State Boards. Some of them would make 90 and 98 on their State Boards.
JW: Well, let me project that question a little bit further there. In your nursing career, what do you feel best about, looking back?
LS: Oh, what I could do to help people. Course, I was an anesthetist for so long.
JW: Is there any patient in particular that you remember especially that you felt real good about?
LS: Oh, there were so many of them. You get real sick patients like pneumonia and cases like that. Then see them get well and what you have done to help them.
JW: Is there anything else you want to add to this tape?
LS: No, that's about all. It was an interesting life.
JW: It sounds like it.
END OF SIDE TWO END OF TRANSCRIPT
Description
McKendree Hospital
Date Created
12/01/1983
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