Audio
Jonny Bearcub and Geneva Seaboy
Transcript
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:00:30]
We'd like to introduce ourselves. We've been asked to come here for the hundredth anniversary of the US Park Service. They're having the 45th anniversary of the original occupiers of Indians of all tribes. And we got the invitation to come. And so we came. I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Jonny Bearcub. I'm from the Assiniboine and Sioux Nation, from the Fort Peck Assiniboine and Sioux Indian Reservation in Northeastern Montana. And this here is?
Geneva Seaboy:
My name is Geneva Seaboy. I am Chippewa and Sioux, and I'm an enrolled member of Sisseton-Wahpeton tribe from Sisseton, South Dakota.
Ranger John:
[00:01:00]
[00:01:30]
And I'm Ranger John, here to ask some questions, I guess. You're doing such a great job here. I don't even know if I need to be here. But I've really enjoyed listening to both of you ladies this evening here. We have heard some great stories and I think it's fun to be on Broadway and to see both of you guys in that historic photo, Look magazine. We picked you out and there you are right on Broadway. So here we are. What is it, about 10:30 at night? The night before the gathering. And we've got about 20 people spending a night out here. I just thought it'd be fun to come over here on Broadway. It's quiet and nice. And maybe just get a couple stories from girls and how you came out. Jonny, you told me you basically hitchhiked up here from LA or you got a ride with John Trudell? Tell me the story.
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:02:00]
It was really interesting. When I came out here, I was not a student and there's a heavy emphasis on the university students who had a major impact on how my life went in the future. But I happened to leave my reservation and go to Lynwood, California to visit a cousin of mine, Julie Lily, and she was on relocation. One weekend, we just happened to go to a party with a lot of UCLA students. And there was a young woman there who had the UCLA vans, and she was trying to get the students to go.
[00:02:30]
Earlier the morning of the next day when everyone was still having a good party, she said she was willing to take anyone. I said, "Well, where are you going?" And she said, "We're going to San Francisco to support the Indian students up there who have overtaken Alcatraz Island." I said, "I want to go." I said, "Can I go?" She said, "Sure. I'm taking anyone who's willing to jump in and go with us." So I jumped in and I came up here and when we were getting on the boats to come across, I just happened to get into the same boat that had John Trudell and Louella, and Maury and Tara. And I rode over on the boat with them and help Lou with the kids and came to Alcatraz Island and stayed here and became one of the occupiers. And I was here for about 11 months.
Ranger John:
Wow.
[00:03:00]
Geneva Seaboy:
[00:03:30]
[00:04:00]
I came out in April of 1969. I had a brother that was out here on relocation program. I started meeting people from San Francisco State and getting ready to go to college. I started to meet a lot of people from April up until the November 20th, the landing started. So I already knew people and was part of the planning and I knew this thing was going to go on. It's very interesting. I met a lot of people from all over. And the night had happened when we went to Sausalito and my friend and I, [Gail Treppa 00:03:38], we... The captain of that ship, sailboat at the time, didn't want any women or children on his boat. And so there were mattresses rolled up and so her and I snuck on, jumped in the middle of the mattresses and hid there. He was looking all over, said, "I don't want any women or children on this boat." And so we hid in the middle of those, jumped in the middle of the mattresses and laid down and he was searching all over. We could feel him kicking our mattresses but we sat tight.
[00:04:30]
[00:05:00]
Everybody was jumping off the boat and then at the last minute they said, "Clear!" So we jumped off and jumped onto the dock and the guy says, "I said no women or children!" When we got on the dock, the caretaker, I think his name was John, came running out ringing his little bell, "Mayday, mayday, mayday! You guys have landed." And he was so nice. But of course, he was the only person on the island. So I guess he had to be nice with all these Indians that were landing. But he said, "You guys can sleep over here." And felt pleased that we could sleep because previously there were two attempts at some Indians coming out, and it was a mock. I think it was just symbolic at the time. But on November 20th was the big landing of all these people. I think there was 80-some people, they say. And that's when we took it over.
Ranger John:
So you were one of the original, first people to arrive?
Geneva Seaboy:
Right [crosstalk 00:05:22].
Ranger John:
And where did you meet again? You told me over in Sausalito?
[00:05:30]
Geneva Seaboy:
It was a no name bar over in Sausalito. That's where we came to the island from. So we snuck in early morning of November, 20th; was had to be about three o'clock, four o'clock in the morning.
Ranger John:
Wow. And when you... Go ahead.
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:06:00]
[00:06:30]
It was really interesting because the news spread really fast throughout the university crowd of students. And before you knew it, once they had made their landing more and more people began to come and more and more people actually stayed out here. It was really an exciting time. It was one of the times that we talk about. And Geneva and I have known each other since. Since we met here at the Island, we've known each other throughout our lives. And when we've revived our memories and we've talked about this place, it was like this was the first year that the Indians had taken over the occupation of Alcatraz; I would say were the golden years. It was just an amazing time for the cohesiveness and the care that everyone took for each other, and everyone pitched in and did a lot of work. Whatever you had to do you did. A lot of things happen there.
[00:07:00]
It was really interesting today as we were touring the island going in different places, we'd stop and we talk about stories or things we remembered, buildings that are no longer here that were there before, people we remembered who have died since then, people that we know of who couldn't attend this reunion because they're too elderly or they're too ill. And we hope to take those stories back to them. But there was so much that happened and so many different things and so many really unique people at that time.
[00:07:30]
[00:08:00]
One of the things that I remember that we were talking about was they said, "What was some of your best memories?" I think one of the memories that really stands out in my mind is how we used to climb on top of the roof of the prison here." And today, it's really strange to see all these lights outside there, because we didn't have that many lights at that time. And we'd climb up on top of the prison when it was really dark, and we'd all sit up there on the roof and we'd sit there and look at all the lights in the bay. And it gave you a lot of time just to sit and think and to really analyze and wonder what are actions that were taken by the initial folks who came out and then those of us who came later to support them and stayed here to support them, the ramifications and the ripple effect that that would have on people, and to think about what was going on when the students would gather.
[00:08:30]
One of the things that really impressed me a lot was when we were living here and they would have the strategy sessions would all come and the student leaders would be there. There'd be Lenita, there'd be Al and John, and just a bunch of them would be there talking, Richard, and they would strategize. Everyone had their input. And then they made a plan or they drafted papers or took minutes, did a whole bunch of different things. And those of us that were younger stood there and watched that. We really learned a lot from that.
And so sitting up on the roof of the prison here and looking out at the bay and all the beautiful lights and everything, you really had a chance to be digest and think about what it was that they were doing, and how much of an impact that made upon our lives.
Ranger John:
Jon, you were what, 18?
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:09:00]
I was 18 years old when I came out here. I had my 19th birthday in February of 1970 here on the island.
Geneva Seaboy:
[00:09:30]
I was also 18 too. And it was students from the Bay Area and surrounding areas that came, Fresno. Because it was organized by students and so it was a lot of contact. We call it mocks and telegraph, where word just spread. And the day after we landed, people were already coming out to the island to support. The night we landed was scary in a sense, it was exciting. But it was also scary because we were breaking the law, the federal property and the Coast Guard was surrounding. But we were having fun but yet fearful.
[00:10:00]
What I really saw was the students were working together very cohesively, and everybody that came took on a role in terms of making this successful in whatever way that they could and knew how. The skills that they had they put to use. They had the leadership. And so those that weren't or didn't care to be in the leadership role, they did what they had to do. People said, "Well, I'll do the cooking." And some people do this and some people did this area that they were good at.
[00:10:30]
[00:11:00]
One of the things that I thought was really neat was how these Indian guys got all of these vehicles that had been sitting there since what, 1963? And this was already '69. They had been sitting there. They got them all running and we're driving all over the island and it was just so fantastic. A lot of us say was probably the best time of our life. For me, it was; it was probably one of the best years of my life, the best event in my life. And I've never forgotten it. I've thought about this over the years. I thought about all the people that we met.
[00:11:30]
Jonny has some documents, minutes, and a list. Gail Treppa and I made... We're at the dock, signing people in, and there's a typewritten list that Jonny has. I think there's a list of 86 on there. And all of those people that are on there, I know all of them and a lot of them are gone, have passed on, which is really sad. A lot of them were my real good friends. Like she said, a lot of them that are on that list couldn't make it. They wanted to come but illnesses. After 45 years people have aged. We're barely getting around the island as it is-
Ranger John:
C'mon, you walked all the way around the island [crosstalk 00:11:52].
Geneva Seaboy:
Yeah, but-
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:12:00]
Before Geneva gets too far, when we were touring today and we were coming by, I started teasing her about the bushes because her and Gail Treppa did something when they came on island that the rest of us that came later weren't a part of. But I want you to tell them the story about you and Gail and the bushes.
Geneva Seaboy:
[00:12:30]
[00:13:00]
Oh, okay. We were watching the Coast Guard, so we were keeping vigil and watching. We're like security. So she and I, we camouflaged ourselves with all of these bushes and leaves and stuff and all over hair, hats. And we climbed on the side. The cliff over here was all those weeds and flowers and stuff. We were hiding in there and we thought we were really cool. The Coast Guard was coming by, shining their spotlights all over the island. We're sitting there and it never dawned on me until about the other day, I think we're sitting there talking to our friend, Johnny Robinson, who was out here on island, real nice guy. I was telling him about what Gail and I did, and I said, "You know what?" I said, "We both wore glasses and then that was those spotlights were probably reflecting off our glasses" I just thought about-
Jonny Bearcub:
Forty five years later.
Geneva Seaboy:
[00:13:30]
... forty five years later it just dawned on me. But yeah, one of the things is that the cohesiveness and how people work together and the support we got was just fantastic. And people came from all over the world in support. We just had so much stuff here. We had a fantastic Thanksgiving, fantastic Christmas.
Ranger John:
I was going to ask, how long did that cohesiveness last, in your opinion?
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:14:00]
[00:14:30]
In my opinion, since I was here for about 11... not quite a year. For all the time that I was here, it was there. I felt it was there. We were very active and they organized us into lists of people who would go to the mainland to speak at schools, churches, different places like that. A couple of times I went with Joe Bill to go give speeches snap here and there. When we all gathered together and we decided who was able to go to Fort Lawton to help them take over the Fort Lawton when they did that up in Seattle. And then other times, when we went to Pyramid Lake and Pitt River, it seemed like there was still the cohesiveness.
[00:15:00]
There was a lot of issues raised, I think, because we had a lot of strong women. Lenita was very articulate. She was aggressive in getting her viewpoint and everything out there. I felt at different times that the media should have recognized the women who were very vocal and very active, but they didn't. The media mostly focused on the leadership that the males gave. And we had some excellent speakers there too. That was a little bit of friction that was created over who was really going to be in leadership.
[00:15:30]
But when it came downright to the nitty-gritty of getting things done, then I think the cohesiveness was there until later in the spring of 1970; late spring, early summer, when a lot of the students had to go back to the reservations for ceremonials, they had to go back home because school was out, they had to go find work so they could get money to go back to school again in next fall. And so a lot of the folks that held that cohesiveness together begin to go. I know I left and I don't know too much of what happened after I left except it seemed that just solely disintegrated.
Geneva Seaboy:
All of the originals had left. Again, like you said, education was one of the main reasons a lot of the students left because that's what they were all here for it to begin with.
Ranger John:
You were going to San Francisco State?
[00:16:00]
Geneva Seaboy:
I was getting ready to go to San Francisco State, yeah. Anyway, I think I left at the end of June of 1970. Because everybody else that was my group... I guess we all had little groups that hung together, all of them left too, so I went back to my reservation-
Jonny Bearcub:
I think I left the first part of June of 1970, I think is when I left.
Ranger John:
And you both met here, you didn't know each other before, right?
[00:16:30]
Geneva Seaboy:
Mm-mm (negative), no. We met here and for some reason we connected and we're adopted sisters, Indian do that. And we've been in contact ever since. I don't know, the student spirit-
Jonny Bearcub:
Our lives have just always paralleled each other.
Geneva Seaboy:
... paralleled each other. And just came about and contacted each other and-
Ranger John:
And this is your first time back, right?
Jonny Bearcub:
Right. This is my first time back since I left. Yeah.
Ranger John:
Since 1970?
Jonny Bearcub:
Late spring of '70.
[00:17:00]
Ranger John:
This is surprising to see all this interest in Alcatraz. Did you ever think that this would happen, the public wanting to come out to this old island?
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:17:30]
No. Over the years we've watched different documentaries and we've seen a wide variety of different things. One of the things that we said this year is because we've seen many documentaries, and a lot of the people that are in documentaries we know either came on weekends or they came after we had left because we never recognized any of them. So one of the things that we really wanted to do was to get as many of the original people that had lived here the first year of Alcatraz occupation by Indian small tribes to try to get as many of them to try to come back. But we also knew that a lot of our folks that were from a part of that group had passed away, or a lot of them were really ill and can't make it.
[00:18:00]
[00:18:30]
Like my adopted brother, Douglas Remington, he was a teacher. He taught at the school that was here on Alcatraz. And he was so excited to know that this reunion was happening and we contacted him. We tried to contact Mary Kennedy from Browning. We contacted John Robinson, who's Northern Cheyenne. He was on security and he lived out here when we were here. We tried to contact a lot of the people that we knew. That's how we found out where Joe Bill was and a lot of folks and try to get the word out because we wanted as many of the original occupiers for the first year to come out. Because you hear John's story, and we're lucky that folks have been able to get the native story. You see a few of the other folks but a lot of the other people you never see.
Ranger John:
You mentioned Joe Morris, Indian Joe; What was he like? What was his connection with the island? Joe Morris?
Geneva Seaboy:
[00:19:00]
He wasn't the verbal or into trying to get himself in the limelight. He did a lot of public relations out there in term in terms of funding, getting organizational support. I think he's the one that got the boats for [crosstalk 00:19:10]-
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:19:30]
The boats, he got clothing and a lot of other things because a lot of folks came out with just nothing. One of the stories I like to tell about is, when you come in and you land there, that big building... A couple of the top floors where were all the donated clothes were organized. They put the clothes and they organized clothes and stuff like that. So people would go up there and go shopping. You go through there and find clothes that you fit. You found clothes and stuff that were there. So we had a lot of different donations and those were organized. That's one of the memories that I have from that.
[00:20:00]
I also have a memory of persistence and ingenuity from some of these young women who had children. I always think of Luella Trudell, because John was always busy out and about, but Luella had Maury and Tara. And Maury used to have that long, straight, blonde hair and big, brown eyes and little, fat, chubby, red cheeks. They were toddlers and Tara was small and just learning to walk, and she had all this really curly hair. I stayed with them in that one little house there. And I lived with them for quite a while but-
Ranger John:
Down on the playground?
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:20:30]
Yeah, but Lue came back from the mainland one day and she whipped out these cans of Sterno and she whipped out this little pot and she... We'd always eaten all together with everyone else at the dining hall or wherever they had cooked down at that house, but it was a special day for something. It was amazing what Lue Trudell could whip up with cans of Sterno as her cooking element.
Ranger John:
[00:21:00]
You know that photo that I mentioned, Art Kane, I think, took that photo, Look magazine, where you're all standing and seated here. You're wearing a cool fur coat. Did you get that fur coat out here? Was that a donation?
Jonny Bearcub:
That was a donation because it was chilly and it was cold that time. And when we were digging around up there we're looking for something nice and warm to get. So I had this big old fur coat that some rich lady had donated and it was a real fur.
Ranger John:
No kidding?
Jonny Bearcub:
Yeah, no kidding. So I grabbed it and that's what I used to wear around out here and stuff. Almost all the clothes that we had on for most of the people that were in that picture were from the donations.
[00:21:30]
Geneva Seaboy:
I don't recall packing any clothes and bringing it out here let alone any bed rolls or toothpaste or toothbrush or nothing. I can't recall bringing that stuff out.
Ranger John:
You guys didn't bring sleeping bags tonight?
Geneva Seaboy:
No.
Jonny Bearcub:
No.
Ranger John:
Did you do that on purpose? Was it historically accurate?
Geneva Seaboy:
No, somebody-
Ranger John:
Because we had to get you some blankets.
Geneva Seaboy:
Somebody from Park Service will get you sleeping bag, blah, blah, blah.
Ranger John:
Oh, sorry about that. [crosstalk 00:21:55].
Geneva Seaboy:
So didn't come through, so.
[00:22:00]
Ranger John:
But we got you some blankets tonight. But that's good. That's good.
Geneva Seaboy:
Yeah, it's fine. It's not that cold out here. I don't recall it being really cold out here. We always had a bonfire and I thought maybe we were going to have a bonfire tonight. Somebody said we're going to have bonfire tonight too, so.
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:22:30]
[00:23:00]
Talking about bonfires, one of the things I remember is when we lived out here, there were a lot of American Indians, all different tribes from all over. And one of the things that stick stuck in my mind all these years was down below there, they always had a fire going. And they had these... I don't know if they were bricks or what they were, but they always had this big old tin galvanized washed up there that had water in it. And they would fish and they would bring up crabs. And that was the first time I had ever eaten crab was when... The Indians that lived along the coast knew what was edible out of the sea. And they would do that and they would cook it in that boiling water and we would eat. They showed us how to eat crabs.
Ranger John:
Nice.
Jonny Bearcub:
They showed us what clams were edible and a wide variety of different seafoods. We began to love seafood from that time on.
Ranger John:
You mentioned donations of food coming out. So did you have people delivering food daily out here? What do you remember about that?
[00:23:30]
Geneva Seaboy:
Yeah. They'd come out here. Food would be delivered out here and dry ice. There was a lot of food, mostly canned goods. Dining hall would be full of food, clothing, you name it. It was donated. When we were getting ready to come, ironically we can talk about when we landed and stuff we didn't... I don't want to recall bringing clothes or thinking about sleeping gear, nothing. Here we are packing-
[00:24:00]
Jonny Bearcub:
In our old age.
Geneva Seaboy:
... toothpaste, toothbrush, pajamas. I don't think we even had that when we landed.
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:24:30]
But one of the interesting things, not only did we get dry goods as food and canned goods as food, but on certain holidays different restaurants from the mainland would bring food out. Like for Chinese New Year, a lot of the Chinese restaurants cooked and brought huge platters of food in that out for us. Thanksgiving, a lot of the Christmas time a lot of the restaurants brought food out there. That was really exciting and really great, because for a lot of us who'd come from the reservations that we hadn't eaten some of that type of food.
[00:25:00]
It was a new experience. It was a new exposure, and it was really great to have that. It was wonderful. And the generosity and the kindness of the people who... I had not had much exposure to a wide variety of people, so when I came out here on the island there were several things that happened to me for me. I'm from Northeastern Montana and I thought that there were just Crees, Siouxs, Assiniboines, Crows, and Cheyennes, and Dakotas, and Chippewas, and other folks in my area of the country. I had ever heard of Iroq, I had never heard of Pomo. I didn't know very much about Navajos.
[00:25:30]
I had never, ever seen a Southern Straight Dancer. So when we had our Paleo at Thanksgiving, we had big Paleo, all these people came up here and there were so many different tribes and dancers that had different types of regalia than we had up in our area of the country. So for me, Alcatraz was a very enlightening experience. I learned to have faith and trust in all colors of humanity, whether they're Asians or they were non-Indians or whomever. I also learned that there is more out here in Indian country than just my neighboring tribes, where I'm from.
[00:26:00]
[00:26:30]
The other thing I thought was really interesting when we were talking to Johnny Robinson just before we came... Because we spent two days with Johnny Robinson, talking with him about his memories, because he was unable to come. The thing that stuck out the most in his mind was that he was impressed at how many California tribes there were and how the California Indians were still alive, no matter what had all had happened to them. Even though they were small, they were still here, and they were very alive and very vibrant cultures. And that was interesting for us too, because I had never heard of the California tribes.
Ranger John:
Geneva, do you have from the occupation?
Geneva Seaboy:
I didn't take anything other than about five kids.
Jonny Bearcub:
That's a good one.
[00:27:00]
Geneva Seaboy:
[00:27:30]
I'm just kidding. The only thing that I have is just this real fond memories of this event. The takeover was a very significant event for Native American people across the country of all tribes, because they started coming from all over the place. The impact it had on the native people was, it was one of pride. It made them really very, very proud of being Native American. Whereas before I think there was a lot of shame base because of the historical trauma that our ancestors had to experience. And it was impact to individuals and it gave them that sense of, "I want to do something. I want to carry this on."
[00:28:00]
[00:28:30]
And so to me, what I did, how I felt, and a lot of others, was to get my education and continue on helping my people, Native American people, and other people too. So I became a social worker. I got my degree in social work, social behavioral sciences, and a minor in psychology. Jonny here, she went on and got her law degree. So there are many, many others that were in a leadership role, or even that were just out here pursued higher education. That was one of the things I think that was very, very significant and very powerful about this movement on this island, taking over this island. It made me very, very proud.
Ranger John:
Did you feel that at the time that this was a historic moment?
Geneva Seaboy:
Oh, yeah. We knew it was.
Ranger John:
And that you were part of history?
[00:29:00]
Geneva Seaboy:
Yeah.
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:29:30]
I think we felt that at the time... I think that one of the things I came away from here with us, when we were out here, we were willing to die for our belief. And that belief of who we were and our identity really coalesced. I was one of the very, very lucky, young American Indian kids that was raised by my maternal grandparents. And so my maternal grandparents were always reinforcing that identity to me, but when you're around your grandparents all time and they tell you this stuff, you don't really listen to them. But when I came out to Alcatraz, and I listened to the LaNada and all the rest of them speak and talk, it just really jelled. It actually really made sense.
[00:30:00]
[00:30:30]
The other thing it gave me was a spirit of independence and faith. When we were in law school, we got out of law school... Bob Goff is a non-Indian fellow friend of mine. He and I had talked about working on the Crazy Horse malt liquor case. We had met down at the Albuquerque Indian Law Conference that they had, Federal Indian Law Conference. And we had a meeting with a lot of these preeminent up and coming American Indian lawyers. We outlined the case and we talked about working to establish indigenous intellectual property right. Everyone thought we were stupid and nuts because we talked about Traditional Indian Law, because Traditional Law was the indigenous unwritten law of our people. We couldn't get much help from them because I don't think they really believed in us. We took and got a good friend of ours from law school, who lives here in San Francisco, Stu Kaler, to help us and we filed the lawsuit on behalf of our clients.
[00:31:00]
[00:31:30]
We fought that case for 10 years and we got a settlement out of it, but we established the indigenous intellectual property right. And that the unwritten spoken, Traditional Tribal Law was valid in Indian country and in outside of Indian country as far as indigenous intellectual property rights was concerned. I don't think I could've been able to do that type of case and have that type of thinking and be able to look at the things that I know of an Indian country if it wasn't for the Alcatraz experience, because Alcatraz experience helped reinforce the foundation that my grandparents had established in me. It solidified it and it gave me a great foundation upon which to build my life on.
[00:32:00]
My adopted brother, Douglas Remington, who was a teacher out here at the school, he's from Southern Ute. He's too ill to be able to come here with us today. But he was very active in gay rights and he was very active in the urban Indian community, but he was also active at Southern Ute because he started the radio station, and many other things there and that rippled out.
[00:32:30]
[00:33:00]
A lot of the people here that were among the original occupiers within the first year, many of them became attorneys. Many of them got their master's and doctorate degrees. Many of them sat on their tribal councils. I was on my tribal council. Several others were on their tribal council. Some of our people from here were tribal chairmen. We have so many of us that have really strived hard to gain that education and use education as the modern day weapons to fight the battle for Indian people and Indian rights in one way or the other. I think that is a story that has not been told about a lot of those folks, and now a lot of them are passing. They're not here to be able to tell their stories.
Ranger John:
Well, I was going to ask you, when you saw the end of the occupation, were you disappointed? What were your thoughts? Did you think that this was going to be Indian land forever?
Geneva Seaboy:
[00:33:30]
[00:34:00]
No, I knew it wasn't going to happen because I know the federal government will do whatever they want to do. We know it ended up that way because... But I admire those people that stuck around and stayed here till the end. One of the things that taught me is, I became very assertive. I'm able to stick up for myself. I'm able to stand up to people. I recognize racism. One of the things I also realized too is that, the media can make or break you. I think that was one of the things that happened here too, is somebody turned them off and they went the other way. I think that was part of the downfall too.
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:34:30]
Oh, I didn't believe that we'd really get Alcatraz either, but I think that Alcatraz was more than just possession of this island. Alcatraz was the beginning of a statement of Indian people and it was also giving permission to everybody in Indian country that it's okay, you can stand up for your rights. You have a right to stand up for your rights. You have a right to be heard. We may have lost Alcatraz, but we gained Fort Lawton.
Geneva Seaboy:
And then other people have said it too is, if you can put something significant... Just like the Statue of Liberty. When you come in from the East Coast, you see the Statue of Liberty is significant. I would love to see a statue out here with the Native American couple, as people come in and say, “This is Native America. Native Americans are here”
[00:35:00]
Ranger John:
[00:35:30]
Well, I got to tell you that when people pull up on the boat and see that Indian land on that wall there, and I get many people that will come up and ask me, “What's that about?” We've left that up there as a tool to tell that story of the American Indian. I think I told you tonight that we're going to restore that. We're going to ask the occupiers that were here to repaint that political messaging on the dock.
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:36:00]
Well, I think one of the interesting things about this island is before it ever was a Fort or before it was prison or any of that, this island was a beautiful place for the Indians that were here before white folks ever came, before anybody, settlers or anyone ever came up here. This land here has always been Indian land. But the interesting thing about this island is, as this island had different cultures moving into this area, it took on a variety of different forms and the forms were always one of oppression, like the Fort, where they held the prisoners here, and then it became the prison where they held prisoners here. I think the Indian occupation of Alcatraz was a liberating movement. It was a very refreshing type of movement because there was no violence. None of that occurred here.
[00:36:30]
[00:37:00]
It was young, brilliant, innovative students who had dreams of bright futures, who had no fear, who had a great desire to change the world and felt that education gave them the weapons and the tools they needed to be able to do that. The thing that I think helped that movement was the international press. I think the international press and the American press re-provided the impetus in the very beginning of taking that message out there. When I take a look at that picture where we're all standing here in the cellblock, almost all of the people in here are very young, except for just a handful that are older, but they were very young people who were very idealistic and very hopeful for a better future. I think that over time, we've slowly achieved that.
[00:37:30]
[00:38:00]
I think the thing that the park service should do, or the government should do is to provide a little bit more accessible education about what the Indian occupation did, and have that available as a teaching tool to a lot of the schools in reservations throughout Indian country, not only in the urban areas, but also throughout the reservations, because I think it's a part of our history that we need to remember. I think it's important for those tribes who may have forgotten that they had tribal members who were active out here and participated out here, that their tribe had members who were willing to take the risk, to be able to bring the type of freedom and the expression that we have today that may not have been there, unless we did Alcatraz, we didn't have the takeover.
[00:38:30]
Ranger John:
It is surprising, because I've met younger Native Americans that really don't know about the history.
Jonny Bearcub:
They don't know history.
Ranger John:
I swam from Alcatraz years ago with a group from Pine Ridge Reservation. I know a doctor that's trying to promote health and fitness. She brings 10 people out to San Francisco and they train for a weekend and we swam from the island to San Francisco. It's a really empowering thing to learn about the history. A lot of these folks don't know anything about the occupation.
[00:39:00]
Geneva Seaboy:
Well, when I got here too and I was hoping to see a museum of a more literature, more of a history of the Alcatraz takeover by the Native Americans here, and I didn't see anything like that here. I was in that exhibition area down there. There was nothing there regarding the takeover. It was just on that little flyer. They got this one little page. So-
Ranger John:
Well, we did watch a video, though.
[00:39:30]
Geneva Seaboy:
Yeah. Well, you just showed us, but-
Ranger John:
That's for the public. We play that for the public.
Geneva Seaboy:
I think there was a lot of photographers that were out here, and they took lots and lots of pictures and if those pictures could be found, and placed out here like a museum. Have a part of this place be a museum, a Native American curator that could speak on that part when you give tours.
[00:40:00]
Jonny Bearcub:
I don't know where a lot of that material would be, but we had a newsletter that came out from here. There were several issues of that newsletter that were created and printed. I have a sample of it that I brought with me that belongs to Johnny Robinson, but there was a lot of really interesting things. I think that if there was a display area of things, I'd be willing to give my coat.
[00:40:30]
Ranger John:
I'm glad to hear you say that, because I was going to ask you about that too.
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:41:00]
I would be willing to give my coat up to be put in there, because that is a symbol of what a lot of us wore. It's not the army coat that several people had, but it is the green coat. And then in the newsletters and the photos you see the same photos of the same people over and over again and just the same old photos, but there are a lot of photographers that came out here, a lot of foreign photographers and a lot of photographers from the area, a lot of amateur photographers. If a request could go out, and they would be willing to give copies of their photographs, I think before a lot of the Alcatraz original occupiers before we die, or we get senile or forget what's what, if they could identify the people that were in those photos, I think that would really be great. You really need to get that information and that history quickly before all of us are gone.
[00:41:30]
Ranger John:
I agree. That's why I wanted to sit with you on Broadway here tonight, a little bit around 11:30 at night here. You guys are real troopers for doing this. I thank you and I hope that you will come back in the future.
Jonny Bearcub:
I hope one day my grandchildren and my great grandchildren see this.
Ranger John:
Yeah, definitely.
Geneva Seaboy:
[00:42:00]
And all the people that are here and we're the oldest ones and we're one of the first occupants and that we're here. I was sad just to look down that list that were coming here to not really know most of these people, maybe there's just maybe four or five people that I know on that list that are going to be like LaNada, Claudine, Crutcher, herself, myself, and [inaudible 00:42:13]. Those are people that came later on, but there were a lot of people here too, so.
Ranger John:
Ed Castillo will be here.
Geneva Seaboy:
Ed Castillo will be here. That's another one too. Yeah. We need them.
[00:42:30]
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:43:00]
Like John says in that one video, thousands and thousands of people came through here. I have some cousins that came out here, visited for a day or two. But one of the things I always think of is the people who really were the occupiers that lived here every day. That stayed out here for the first year and a half. I think those are the people that really need to be highlighted and many of them are not in the documentaries or the videos that are presented. There's only a handful of people. There are people that are presented in some of the videos where we know that they never lived out here, but they only came out maybe two, three weekends. But they became famous people and they talk about the island. Yes, the island did impact them. The island did have a major impact on their lives and they leveraged as much of it as they could for their personal promotion.
[00:43:30]
Ranger John:
Thank you for being here, ladies. It's been a real honor to spend this time with you here and I hope you keep coming back.
Jonny Bearcub:
We’ll see, we'll try.
Geneva Seaboy:
[00:44:00]
Yeah, I'm really glad I came back. I never thought I'd be able to come back again and just struck and get up and come out here. But there was a purpose here this time, and so there was a real good reason to come out here because it was a reunion of the alumni. I want to see these people again, and I hope I see some of these people again.
Jonny Bearcub:
[00:44:30]
Not only to be able to see some of these people, but our friend, Johnny Robinson, we sat and we talked with him before we came out, and we'll talk with him when we go back. I'm going to go down to Southern Ute to see my brother and show him all the pictures we took. I'm going to call him on the phone tomorrow. I called him today and let him know what was happening. I'll call him tomorrow and tell him, because they're too ill to be here with us. They can be living vicariously with us and they bring up their memories and the things that they thought and we'll try to tell parts of their story as they tell it to us. I think their stories are important.
Ranger John:
I do too. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very, very, very much.
Jonny Bearcub:
Thanks too.
[00:45:00]
Geneva Seaboy:
Thank you for asking us to talk. I'm just so happy to be here.
Description
Jonny Bearcub and Geneva Seaboy discuss Native American Rights and lands along with their memories of time spent as original occupiers of Alcatraz during the Indian Occupation.
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