Russell Marsh

Sandy Hook, Gateway NRA, National Park Service
An Oral History Interview with Russell J. Marsh Nike Launch Area Section Chief, 1971-74
Interviewed by Peter Dessauer and Tom Hoffman, NPS
Also a site condition assessment by Peter Dessauer, Historic Architect, NPS August 22, 1979
Transcribed by Mary Rasa, 2011

Editor’s notes in parenthesis ( )
Peter Dessauer: The date is Wednesday August 22, 1979. Pete Dessauer, Historic Architect from the Denver Service Center and Tom Hoffman, Historian from the Museum at Fort Hancock, Sandy Hook, are here at the Nike Missile site on Sandy Hook, Gateway National Recreation Area, New Jersey.

Tom Hoffman: Okay Pete, we are standing right at the main entrance to the missile site which the Army called the LCA, the Launch Control Area, and we are standing by a cinderblock sentry box and on the old building list I have here as listed on the 1963 and 1974 Fort Hancock building list is listed as a sentry box and the only difference we have here is from the old building list its numbered 424. The structure number is 424 but they have it written on as T-439. So, at one point it looks like they changed it.

Peter Dessauer: All right. Okay we are looking at concrete pads which are numbered as 459 (Transformer Shed, c. 1955) on my map.

Tom Hoffman: Right.

Peter Dessauer: What did that used to be?

Tom Hoffman: Air conditioning building. Made of metal, 40 square feet but no longer exists.

Peter Dessauer: No longer exists but instead we have another concrete block. What was here?

Tom Hoffman: This is interesting because it seems that there are a number of them here and up over there and they might have been the others all built together.

Peter Dessauer: 461, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66.

Tom Hoffman: Conversion house, it would seem to me “conv.”

Peter Dessauer: Well, here at 459 and there remains of the flagpole and you said what some people might immediately interpret as an ancient mine is really just a buoy. We are standing in front of a pre-fab cabin painted green recently painted by the maintenance crew here at the Nike Missile Site.

Tom Hoffman: Right.

Peter Dessauer: And its number is T-433 (1955). What do you know about it?

Tom Hoffman: Well, its listed as barracks and it is probably for housing the soldiers that worked here at the missile site because I believe there were on two week duty with one or two weeks off.

Peter Dessauer: It was 24 hours.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. They could be called out at any time. This is where they lived on duty 24 hours and they could be called out on a case of a national emergency. Right here, the front door has suffered some vandalism I have noticed. We had an AN-1 National Park Service padlock on here. It’s missing and the inside of the door here is split.

Peter Dessauer: The Army pulled out of here when?

Tom Hoffman: Out of the missile site they phased operations out in I’d say in near mid-July 1974, and they took everything with them. All they left were empty buildings. These barracks buildings were empty. Of course, there are still fixtures over in the latrine building but all equipment all furniture and missiles were pulled out in mid-July.

Peter Dessauer: This T-433 is a barracks.

Tom Hoffman: Right. That is what it is listed as. We have four of them listed as barracks. We are using this area as storage like park maintenance.

Peter Dessauer: 433 is used as park maintenance storage at the moment.

Tom Hoffman: Right for signs. We have some old cannonballs here we got from Fort McHenry.

Peter Dessauer: Now, do you feel these old barracks are sufficiently secure from public intrusion?

Tom Hoffman: I believe so because we lock the front gate. All around the perimeter of the fence here we have got the Army barbed wire which is still potent barbed wire and it’s pretty
hard to get in here.

Peter Dessauer: The interior design and partitions we find here Tom, does not lead me to believe this was a typical barracks. There are some strange room arrangements. Perhaps…how many men do you think slept here?

Tom Hoffman: I don’t know. We have a man who served here in the Army in the last years that the missiles were in operation and I think he could really fill us in on that.

Peter Dessauer: Right here in 433 there is an electrical panel. We will have to ask one of the veterans. Now all four of these pre-fab little cabins or barracks…What’s this? This is sort of a metal…

Tom Hoffman: Metal. Metal all bolted together.

Peter Dessauer: Bolted together on the outside. On the inside, they have stud frame and rock sheet walls. Now we are standing in front of the green, newly freshly painted barracks building labeled at T-432.

Tom Hoffman: Right, and its presently being used by the Sandy Hook concessionaires out here as storage for their sales artifacts.

Peter Dessauer: How about condition? Have you been inside? Does it look like its in…

Tom Hoffman: No. I haven’t but it looks just like 433. The doors been damaged right here and they have a panel across there.

Peter Dessauer: They put a plywood panel over it and painted it. Okay but it is locked?

Tom Hoffman: Oh yes and secure.

Peter Dessauer: Another thing Tom, I see that there are a lot of utility wires going to the apex of the gable on each one of these barracks. What utilities are coming into these buildings?

Tom Hoffman: As far as I know, just regular electricity, you know, for each building for lights and outlets.

Peter Dessauer: The door is open to Barracks T-431 (1955) and we are looking inside and it’s been recently converted into a garage. There is a Datsun truck and a large Dodge truck standing in here. Also it reveals the construction of these pre-fab metal barracks.

Tom Hoffman: The linoleum flooring has been taken up as you can see. You can see where it used to be. But now we are just standing on the pre-fabricated concrete foundation which is flat.

Peter Dessauer: Concrete slab.

Tom Hoffman: If there were partitions in here it would be pretty hard to see them. Looking at some of the bracings in the wall here you can see where things are missing.

Peter Dessauer: At least this garage, with all the interior or historic interior removed reveals the basic simple construction of these barracks. We are right in front of T-430 (1955), 430 and the door is locked.

Tom Hoffman: Right I will check it out here. It’s a private lock. It’s not a Park Service lock.

Peter Dessauer: But that is an old door at least it is designed like an old door. It’s got the cross and open book design on it with the panels.

Tom Hoffman: Yep.

Peter Dessauer: Tom Hoffman and myself, Peter Dessauer have been joined by Russell J. Marsh.

Russell J. Marsh: Thank you. I was Spec(alist) 5. I was in charge of Alpha section. There were four sections. Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta all missile pits and I was a section chief. (There are four pits at the site labeled A, B, C and D) I had 14 gentlemen working for me and our job was the readiness of the missiles at all time and maintenance of launchers and all of the Alpha pit itself okay. There were certain duty rosters and one of the duty rosters during the duty rosters you have sergeant of the guard, sergeant of the quarters. These were the E-5s, the sergeants and Spec 5s and one of the first things that was very memorable in the morning when you first see driving by early in the morning would be changing of the guards. And you would have certain number of backup people and you have your gate guard waiting to be relieved. Everybody that worked the night before could not wait until the next crew came in and they had a start an inspection. They would stand there and there would be the sergeant of the guard and the officer of the day would each inspect each and every man’s weapon, his personal appearance and his general orders. Each guard had a specific duty. Like the front key house job was mainly to keep which was Building T-439. (Sentry Box)

Peter Dessauer: That is where we are standing right now.

Russell J. Marsh: Right. This building was basically, at night a guard would see anybody coming in going out. We would open gate for vehicles coming in and going out. This would be the low lax security area because this area in here there wasn’t that much except for T-433 which was looking over here which was the guard building. It had the ammunitions and the rifles and the backup. That would be your primary backup. We also had secondary backup. We had backup also from Fort Monmouth. Now you had your little trailers over there, your little radar trailers okay. They were of magnesium. The thing I found particularly interesting about them if there was any fire, he had two chances in there, slim and none because it would go up in a matter of nine seconds.

Peter Dessauer: Okay, now where are these trailers you are talking about?

Russell J. Marsh: The trailers were where the cars are right now, okay.

Peter Dessauer: All right. There used to be trailers where the parking lot is now. And what was in those little trailers?

Russell J. Marsh: It was like certain like little radars which would hook onto the missiles and it was the basic means of communications between the IFC radar and the missiles itself. Let’s take a walk to building

Peter Dessauer: Once again we come back to T-433 and Mr. Marsh is going to fill us in on the history of this place when he was a resident. How long were you here and what years?

Russell J. Marsh: I was here in the start of ’71. During ‘72 I spent 13 months in Korea and I was lucky enough to return back here. So I put a total of roughly three years in here.

Tom Hoffman: What years were those?

Russell J. Marsh: ’71, ’72 I was absent, ’73 and ’74 I spent here. In June of ’74 I was discharged June 25th of ’74. The last missile went out about the 5th of June when it was deactivated.

Tom Hoffman: It was June? Because I was told it was July.

Russell J. Marsh: It was June. As far as the nuclear capacity goes, okay.

Tom Hoffman: Oh okay.

Russell J. Marsh: I mean let me put that, the nuclear capacity part was the part that really needed manpower here. Everything else was Minnie Mouse and Mickey Mouse but the heart of it was in June.

Peter Dessauer: Russell, can you tell us anything about the historical use of 433, T-433 when you were here?

Russell J. Marsh: Okay, it was the heart of security. It was the meeting place and the beginning place in the morning. The first place everybody met. It was the first place you come to get a badge. This was the first badge system right here. It was the first alarm system was here. And here is where the sergeant of the guard would coordinate everything that would go on. The officer of the day would come in and inspect. They had a desk here and this where the sergeant of the guard would start everything and if you go in the back you had a small room over here. The first room on the left was more or less the TV room.

Peter Dessauer: What’s this switch for here?

Russell J. Marsh: This was electrical stuff. We had different security systems, okay. It was, the pits themselves, the missile pits, if it was open just a little bit the light would go off. The sergeant of the guard would be notified. We had backup people here. The sergeant of the guard would open it up. We had every type of weapon you want. He would run up there and we would have backup. That would be the basis for that. The only problem with that was due to like all electrical systems they went off a lot of times on false alarms. So, you could be napping after just pulling guard and you might be getting three hours sleep and in the middle of your three hours sleep you might have to get up and run down there and check out. And you don’t know you have to play everything as if it would be real.

Peter Dessauer: Russell, I see what looks like a chain link iron door which leads into a long narrow room at the back of 433. What was this used for?

Russell J. Marsh: Okay. This was your ammunition room. You had your M-16s and they were every bullet, every weapon was inventoried every day. Every change of shift had to be counted by the sergeant of the guard and had to be counted by the duty officer. And as it went down the line if it was missing went downstream as the old saying goes because the man would responsible. He couldn’t really get off duty until it’s accounted for. It was also certain gas. I remember one incident one day, there was a gentleman that stupidly unloaded he weapon and shot a bullet into the side there and he hit a tear gas and this place stunk. I mean we had to clear the place out. We temporarily relocated everything to the next building that day. But that was once in three years and it was an oddity. The gentleman was put up for a court martial for that. That could have cost a life. That was pretty dumb. Then again he was a lackadaisical soldier. He was you typical sad sack person. Everything went wrong for this person.

Tom Hoffman: Just, you had M-16s in here and also tear gas?

Russell J. Marsh: M-16, there was tear gas, .45s

Tom Hoffman: The Colt .45?

Russell J. Marsh: The Colt .45s which the sergeant of the guard and a lot of the guards would use, okay the gate guards, but the other ones…and each one, each man was assigned a weapon, okay. It was his responsibility to make sure that was clean. Out of the clear blue sky the battery commander would say, “I want to pull a weapons inspection.” He better have a clean weapon. Technically the sergeant of the guard’s duty he would check the weapons as the men were going off duty to make sure that they are clean so just around breakfast time you would see a lot of (M)16s out here being cleaned. Brushes and everything toothbrushes were very handy for cleaning it.

Tom Hoffman: Would that be done in this room?

Russell J. Marsh: It would be done outside. You would never do the cleaning of a weapon in here.

Tom Hoffman: Right over here?

Russell J. Marsh: Right out in the front ..And they would have a roster and check each gentleman. First, they would sign for the weapon, the serial number.

Peter Dessauer: All right Russell, we are still in 433 and this is the room where the Park Service is storing the signs and cannonballs. What was this used for?

Russell J. Marsh: This was basically your bunk room. This would be the gentleman who just pulled guard duty would be sleeping. We had a (inaudible dog type) that also for three years that was stationed here with us. Well, actually about four years. He name was Zonkers. I think he was named after the popcorn or whatever the, “Screaming Zonkers Candy” that came out. But every morning it was particularly interesting during this tour of duty that I had. Every morning when the guards would be standing guard, the dog would stand with him in line for inspection almost every day. And anytime anybody was going anywhere the dog would follow. And he would also, he was very intelligent, he would inform the guards that the duty officer was coming almost always. For some reason he had this uncanny reason for informing the guards so that they could, you know, fix their hat, straighten their uniforms up, whatever. But he was loved by everybody here. And then I believe, when the Fort was deactivated somebody for Canton, Ohio took him home.

Peter Dessauer: Now, we are in one of the front rooms of T-433. This is more or less the northwest corner.

Russell J. Marsh: This was basically your security sergeant’s office, their headquarters. The gentleman that would be in charge of security. Non-commissioned officer, of course,
and at the time we had Sergeant Barkley, who was an excellent guitar player too. He played at the bar in Highlands. He was excellent in guitar. And what was ironic he left in ’71 approximately two months before I left for Korea and as it worked out I was like a ghost. I followed him to the exact battery. So, it was kind of eerie but they had one sergeant before him just about had a nervous breakdown due to the security because it is a pretty intense job. It does encounter a lot and it is a lot of responsibilities. So as you can see as the president itself, you can see how the president ages in office. The same thing could be said of the sergeant of the guard here. The pressures that were put on were so great and if you see anybody after a long period of time if you look at him it takes its toll on him.

Peter Dessauer: Once again we are in front of T-432. Can you tell us Russell, anything about this barracks?

Russell J. Marsh: This is coordinations, platoon sergeant and the leading officer for the missile site, the 1st Lieutenant for the missile site. And they would have duty rosters would be produced here. Few meeting would take place here but basically the section chief would have to come in and have to report to the platoon sergeant. It would be my direct boss. And the platoon sergeant’s direct boss would be the first sergeant. And the first sergeant all he had to do was answer to the battery commander. Okay, that’s the chain of command for the NCOs. First sergeant, platoon sergeant and then goes down to section chief. That is where I lay in.

Peter Dessauer: You were a section chief?

Russell J. Marsh: I was a section chief. Now you had to, a lot of times I would come down here after I assigned my men work just to type up duty rosters. And you have to figure out and show and anytime you have something go wrong or a problem of some sort you would have to come down here and see the platoon sergeant.

Peter Dessauer: Now it is used as a concessionaire storage area. Could you tell us something about the interior when it was part of the Army?

Russell J. Marsh: The interior basically your simple Quonset hut. You’ll have a desk over on the far right corner as soon as you come in and you’d have a desk in the far left hand corner and there was like an air of it and there was a locker in the back. It was almost separated. There was no partition there but it was like almost a separation line. There was an officer’s quarter in the back and here was the non-commissioned officer in the front so it was like an imaginary line. You didn’t walk past that line. You never it was not an accepted thing somebody that was an E-4 or E-3 or private first class or a corporal would not walk in and go straight to the officer and ask him a question. That is going through your chain of command now. They stressed that. You should go to your immediate supervisor, you section chief, then your platoon sergeant, then your first sergeant if you have a problem or something. Now, if somebody was to walk in and go straight across the imaginary line because the platoon sergeant was busy and said something he might not even get an answer. But he sure as heck would hear about it the next day. I guarantee you that. There was also supplies that were needed. Simple flares or stationary basically was in there also.

Peter Dessauer: We are now walking into T-431 which is now a garage.

Russell J. Marsh: This was basically a training room. We did have nuclear capacity and we had nuclear fallout training and sessions. This room and the following room over there were both training rooms. We had different sessions.

Peter Dessauer: It's 430.

Russell J. Marsh: We had two rooms. They were both used for training and they were different classes. We had educational classes. Public relations classes, human characteristic everyone had to have a certain amount of course that they had to take with the service to qualify because you did have to go through a mental exam as well as a physical exam in this certain program. You wouldn’t want someone unbalanced playing with missiles. They could blow up the east coast.

Peter Dessauer: We have just been joined by my partner, Historic Architect Barry Sulam, Denver Service Center. You are now on tape Barry. Alright, we are now approaching which looks like the largest building here in the complex. And what number is this? This is building 437, S-437 (1964) which is the Ready Room.

Russell J. Marsh: This is my favorite room and I think every GI that was ever stationed here favorite room. This was the recreation room. This was, they had 24 hour duty here. It was 24 hours on, 24 hours off and then you worked two eight hour shifts. When you first walk in to your left you have a TV, a nice half way decent color TV. You had a soda machine over in the corner over here which everybody would dive to take a break. Whenever they would take a break they would always try to come down here as much as possible to get a soda. As you go in the back, the bunks were lined against the right of the wall, okay. You had approximately two, four, six, eight, approximately 12 to 14 bunks.

Peter Dessauer: This is the back room. This is sort of the big large south room of the Ready Room.

Russell J. Marsh: Right. And they had a pool table and a foosball machine, of little soccer men. And they had some really good players here when you are stuck here and that is all you can do. You become rather good. The only problem with these floors every morning when you got up they would leave, you would have to do safety checks on the missile approximately six o’clock, 5:30 in the morning. So, we would leave a couple of people down here to clean this place. They would clean like any GI. You would put wax down and then you would have a cloth over your buffer and they would shine. You could see your face in the floor. The bathrooms were spotless. Whenever there was an inspection they would go bananas over this room. They would always be cleaned. This little room over here was always the storage room. It still is. That is where your basic things are.

Peter Dessauer: Yeah. That’s where, the latrine. Now who cooked the meals here?

Russell J. Marsh: Meals, well, we were relieved. You had to go to the barracks (74). The barracks were approximately two miles from here, three miles from here. You could have a break and eat lunch. A couple of people would eat lunch at a time. There was no major problem about eating lunch because if ever there was an alert you have approximately 20 minutes before you really had to get on the ball. They gave you a pretty good warning. The way the system was set up you did have enough time to eat and if you were eating you could stop if there was a real thing and make it to the missile site in plenty of time.

Peter Dessauer: How many men were stationed here?

Russell J. Marsh: Stationed at one time?

Peter Dessauer: Yes

Russell J. Marsh: Oh, I have the pictures home. I have a whole battery. I have quite a bit of information at home. My estimate I would say approximately for C Battery, for just the mission alone, not the administrative people, just I am talking the missile and radar because then you have administrative supply and everything. Approximately 60 people 65 people but then you have your administrative people and everything and we are not talking the headquarters on the hill. There were quite a few hundred people here and with the whole thing going you have talking making 200 people between the different sections. That is why you had the Commissary, the church facilities and the different housing facilities given.

Peter Dessauer: How was the food?

Russell J. Marsh: Terrible. No. It was good. It was pretty good. I have to admit that. It’s a shame to say that and admit it now but it was pretty good.

Peter Dessauer: Now between S-437 where we just were and T-430 the barracks there now stands a volleyball court. Was this here when you were here?

Russell J. Marsh: No there wasn’t. There was a horseshoe, not a horseshoe a…

Peter Dessauer: Horseshoe pitch.

Russell J. Marsh: Horseshoe pitch. Thank you. Horseshoe pitch.

Peter Dessauer: Alright we are now at Building S-434 (1955) and we are standing on the north side of it and there is a concrete pad here where the walk divides and most like in three directions like a big Y. Now what was here? Why was this concrete pad?

Russell J. Marsh: That’s a sewage or a septic tank.

Peter Dessauer: Septic tank.

Russell J. Marsh: Septic tank, okay. In this building is a bathroom. Okay, there is bathroom facilities and there is first aid facilities and there is fallout facilities and rations. In the event of a nuclear blast and people were caught they had big fifty gallon drums with certain powder that people would be powdered with after they were stripped and had taken a shower. They also had paint and different tools in it. Right around to the left of it and to back of it to the side was a garbage bin where people put their garbage.

Peter Dessauer: Now you are talking about a nuclear blast. Where did you expect this blast to be? In New York City?

Russell J. Marsh: I would say if they were going to attack it would probably be in New York City. This was the heart for the National Defense of New York City and if we were to be attacked that’s where we would go. We would try to stop them before they got to New York City and we probably would but when you are talking about a warhead that was possibly nine times what was dropped on Hiroshima and you are gonna have and if the wind was right you are talking about a large amount of fallout coming. You are talking about a crisis that we prayed would never happen. Luckily it never did. Maybe if we did shoot down a plane one missile would be designed to knock down a fleet of planes, not just one plane and the kill radius would be roughly a mile we are talking. We might do more damage possibly knocking a fleet of planes out then just letting them bomb due to the fallout which might come but that’s not our decision and the government likes strong retaliation.

Peter Dessauer: Well, it still looks, we are now inside the building and it still looks like a latrine area.

Russell J. Marsh: It still is and there used to be sinks here. They were taken off the wall which you can see. Over here you had your garden tools, your lawn mowers, rakes and various tools and basically these until the others were busted up. They haven’t been used in quite a while. There used to be big drums here with different fluids and different things. Water, distilled water and the C rations would be on the side here which were excellent.

Peter Dessauer: What was life like here in the wintertime on the Hook?

Russell J. Marsh: Cold and desolate. The worst things we could do would be pulled outside with the winter wind blowing. I had it so cold that a wrench almost stuck to my hand. And if you went out towards the tip of the Hook, which they used to dump garbage way at the end by the Coast Guard. You go out there and the chill factor sometimes would be 40 below. The officer of the day….

Peter Dessauer: This would be a private bathroom on sort of the west side of this building and this is the officer of the day’s private bath. We are now west from S434 toward a small building that is called T-435 (1955). On the south side of this building is an old rusty shell. What was this used for?

Russell J. Marsh: Basically generator.

Peter Dessauer: Generator?

Russell J. Marsh: Basically what it was. We had reserve power. This is a small one. They had big ones down a ways. Basically it would supply power to this immediate area.

Peter Dessauer: That shell keeps the door jammed, the door on the south side jammed shut.

Peter Dessauer: Peter Dessauer and Tom Hoffman are now standing on the front concrete pad of Building S-449 (1959) used for what?

Tom Hoffman: This was the Missile Assembly Building, Pete. And this is where they bring in the parts of a Nike Hercules for assembly. There were three parts and two of the parts were assembled here to my knowledge. That would be the booster section, the booster rockets were the lower part and then there was the white part, the white metal part which would be the middle part. That would be the second stage which would launch off the warhead. The warhead was the third part mounted on top. That was mounted at the other building.

Peter Dessauer: Now, just to the south of this building we see 150 feet away on the barbed wire fence a pond. Could you tell me about that?

Tom Hoffman: Yes. It is kind of interesting because we have a real detailed map of Sandy Hook done in 1889 and the pond is marked on that map clearly. It is called a round pond. At that time it was round like we see it here. It was very, very round but then going extending to the west of us and extending northward up the Hook the pond continued and ran into a marshy area right here where the buildings (are). Of course, when they built this missile site they filled in that pond and marshy area. That’s gone.

Peter Dessauer: What is this used for now, this Building S-449?

Tom Hoffman: By the Sandy Hook Maintenance Division. You can look in here and see one of the maintenance division trucks for storage and actually they don’t do the vehicle maintenance here. That is done up in the other area in Fort Hancock.

Peter Dessauer: What sort of maintenance work do they perform from this Nike Missile Site?

Tom Hoffman: Well, from here they take out the beach trucks. The trucks that go up and down the beaches here, Ocean Bathing Area 1 and numbers 2 and these trucks pick up the garbage out of the green cans. At the end of the summer they bring in the cans, the lifeguard stands and also all the snow fencing.

Peter Dessauer: What do you know about the present condition of the building? It looks like it might need to be repainted but beyond that.

Tom Hoffman: Right. That is the story of Fort Hancock’s buildings. The Army kept up the maintenance fairly well. There is an eastern cottontail rabbit. But as you can see in the past five years especially with all the storms that come in here, the buildings need at least on the exterior need a good paint job. The poison ivy is taking over all over here as you can see.

Peter Dessauer: We are now both walking on the east side of Building S-449. We are now walking to a building which has earth berms surrounding it on all four sides and then large night lights. This is Building S-450, 450 (1959).

Tom Hoffman: This is your Warhead Assembly Building. After they had assembled the two stages of the Nike Hercules rocket back at 449 they would bring it out here to 450 where the third part, the top part of the warhead was assembled. These large earthworks around it are probably a blast slope in case a blast went here the blast would go up on either side.

Peter Dessauer: Now it looks like it is designed like a car, a modern car wash.

Tom Hoffman: That’s right. It’s basically intact inside. It is very clean inside. There is a linoleum floor and it’s used for storage by the maintenance division here and also by the lifeguards. They have had some of their lifeguard boats put in here in past years since this became a National Park.

Peter Dessauer: What do they store in here? Do you have any idea?

Tom Hoffman: It was everything. The chief ranger had fire fighting tools, different tools stored in here. Signs, like I said the Lifeguard Division had some of their boats stored in here. Also every now and then there would a truck in here. No actual maintenance done on the trucks here. It was done strictly for storage.

Peter Dessauer: We are now walking inside Building S-450. And we see they have a tractor which pulls a beach rake machine.

Tom Hoffman: Okay, since the last time I was in here there was a nice floor in here. It is all gone down. As is most of the, they used to have benches and things to store wooden benches on either side of the walls here. And you can see where they used to be, the frames. But everything has been removed so they can have their beach cleaners stored in here because every morning the Maintenance Division goes out very early in the morning and cleans the beaches here for the public.

Peter Dessauer: Looking at the ceiling or roof construction we can see I beams nearly 12 inches deep and just below that we have another I beam system that was used for what?

Tom Hoffman: Right here, the main one that is going overhead was for probably for the work in here with the missile body and the warheads winching the warhead to the front of the body.

Peter Dessauer: I see. They hung it from that.

Tom Hoffman: That’s right.

Peter Dessauer: And then they could slide it around.

Tom Hoffman: Right. Easier access, after all once they had everything put together that weighed an awful lot. So, they probably put this to the best of their advantage.

Peter Dessauer: We are outside again, Tom. Now just on the south side of the large concrete pad goes through building S-450 east-west direction you have this undulating concrete pad.

Tom Hoffman: Right.

Peter Dessauer: In the concrete surface.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah.

Peter Dessauer: What does this mean? What was it used for?

Tom Hoffman: I don’t know. It’s very interesting. Apparently they did something in here. They have something over there like a light fixture and something used to be, holes used be set over there but I have no idea unless this was a cleaning area because you could see right there pipes.

Peter Dessauer: Right. Drainage pipes.

Tom Hoffman: Drainage pipes and perhaps this is where they actually washed off the Nike Hercules missile right here after they had all been all together.

Peter Dessauer: Gave those babies a bath.

Tom Hoffman: That’s right.

Peter Dessauer: We are now standing at the far east end of the surrounding barbed wire fence. This point there is a chain link fence gate. This is now open and at this point you said Tom, that the beach combing machines exit and return from making their forays to collect the garbage that the public has littered all over our beautiful sand of Sandy Hook.

Tom Hoffman: That’s right. They will go right out of here and most of them will go right over to the south to go down to the OBAs (beach areas) to clean up all the garbage and everything here and then return back in here where you have the metal trash collectors right here.

Peter Dessauer: We are now walking north from the east end gate and we are nearing the fenced in silo area. When do you want to visit that? Tomorrow?

Tom Hoffman: Yeah we will have to because only two other park personnel have the key for that lock on the door that will lead us down inside.

Peter Dessauer: Now standing at the northwest corner of the Nike silo compound at the kennels and we can see just beyond the barbed wire fence on the west side of the kennels is the other half of the marsh. In the middle of which is the Nike Missile camp that was installed by the Army when the Missile Site was constructed in what year?

Tom Hoffman: I would date this around 1958. (The Launching Area Pits were constructed in 1955. The dog kennels were constructed in 1958.) The major part of the construction plus the silos is probably around 1958.

Peter Dessauer: Alright Tom, tell me what you know about these kennels and what they were used for?

Tom Hoffman: Okay for security of the Missile Launch Site they had soldiers that were trained with German Sheppard guard dogs and the dogs, of course, were kept in the kennels right here. And their handlers were assigned to take them around the perimeter here for security to hunt out anything or for intruders. Here you go. You got one here. (Dog barking in distance.)

Peter Dessauer: Tom Hoffman and I are standing on a concrete block just below a telephone pole which is just between Building T-429 (1958) and the entrance into the Nike Silo Compound. We can’t find any trace of what it used to be on the historic map. What is your information say?

Tom Hoffman: Okay, this is on the older map I have gotten a copy of for you Pete. Its 448 (1958), Sentry Control Station.

Peter Dessauer: Oh, another one.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. It says masonry here, 96 square feet if this is the correct site but this doesn’t look like it was masonry. It looks like it was very, very temporary by looking at these bolts. Let’s just make sure. That is 429 down there behind us.

Peter Dessauer: We are now standing at Building T-429 (1958). What do you think this was used for Tom? It looks like a gasoline pump.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah, I am trying to find it here on our list. It’s a generator building. It’s a generator building, corrugated iron and it now has the number T-429. It used to be S429.

Peter Dessauer: Do you know anything else about it?

Tom Hoffman: No, but it is on the earliest map so it probably goes back to the late fifties when they built the site.

Peter Dessauer: It goes back to the late ‘50s. It is now used by the Maintenance Department and they store paint in there.

Tom Hoffman: They do painting in there. They paint the green trash cans in there. They also used to have a couple of scooters, electric scooters in here, stored here at one time back around 1977. The paint area…

Peter Dessauer: We are now walking by structure S-447 (1959). What was this used for?

Tom Hoffman: Okay on our master list, Paint and Oil Storage Building. Masonry and still has S 447 on it. On the master list it was just 447.

Peter Dessauer: What is it used for now?

Tom Hoffman: It might be the same thing. It is still be used by our Maintenance Division because there is a Maintenance Division lock on it.

Peter Dessauer: We are now at another guard house. This is S-456.

Tom Hoffman: Right another guard shelter. It’s the inner shelter. We started today over at the outer shelter near the main road, Hartshorne Drive but now we are inside near the inner fence gate which was more high priority as Russ (Marsh) was saying. This was more important here because now we are entering back into the silo area where the missiles were kept.

Peter Dessauer: It is not in good condition is it?

Tom Hoffman: No. Broken windows, broken windows in the door. Paint really chipping away in an area here and there in the corner.

Peter Dessauer: Exterior badly weathered. There is no ventilation in the soffits. Even a telephone apparatus in the interior is torn apart.

Tom Hoffman: Russ was saying they were more like trailers, mobile.

Peter Dessauer: All right we are passing by the concrete pad of…

Tom Hoffman: Number 460 (c.1955 Transformer Shed)

Peter Dessauer: Number 460. And Russ said they contained little trailers here.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. They, top secret, he couldn’t divulge what they were really used for. We have on the master list that they were conversion houses here made of steel and some kind of air conditioning units made of metal and that these were self contained pre fabricated trailer units that stood on these sites here that were connected with the missile operation.

Peter Dessauer: But on both, in each case in 459 and 460 you have this large concrete pad and then just at the west end.

Part 2

Peter Dessauer: Today is Thursday August 23, 1979. Tom Hoffman, myself (Pete Dessauer), and Elaine (Harmon) from the Fort Hancock Museum are here at the Radar Site (IFC Area), Sandy Hook, Gateway National Recreation Area. Tom, what are your memories of seeing this Radar Site?

Tom Hoffman: Well, the most striking thing was the domes, the white fiberglass domes that used to be on the towers we are standing in front of and they were made of fiberglass to protect the radar equipment that was standing on these small towers. It was still in operation when I was here in the summer of 1974 housing the radar. Right where you are standing you would see when you passed up from the main road, you would see an armed soldier and M-16 rifle and a pistol on his pistol belt. And also right here at the main entrance on that fence gate was that metal sign just like down at the Missile Site, metal sign with the yellow background with black lettering of course giving you a warning that this was a high security area.

Peter Dessauer: And we are standing right here just on the south side of (Building) 423 and that was a Guardhouse.

Tom Hoffman: Yes. Yeah the Sentry Box where the guard would be on duty right here.

Peter Dessauer: What is 422?

Tom Hoffman: 422 is the Missile Tracking Radar Tower.

Peter Dessauer: Missile Tracking Radar Tower. Okay. We are now standing in front of Structure 421. What’s that?

Tom Hoffman: Okay. 421 is Acquisition Radar Tower.

Peter Dessauer: Acquisition Radar Tower. Okay.

Tom Hoffman: That jives with what we have got right here.

Peter Dessauer: What about this vision, line of sight between 421 and 422? They both look south towards the Nike Missile Site.

Tom Hoffman: Right, and according to the blueprint which we have in the Museum Collection, it’s dated 1954. They had to cut down all vegetation so they had a visual sight from these
radar towers here to the Missile Site. (It was) Probably for tracking with no obstructions in the way.

Peter Dessauer: The structure here is number 420.

Tom Hoffman: Target Tracking Radar Tower.

Peter Dessauer: We are now standing in front of 455. It looks like a small concrete shed.

Tom Hoffman: Right. It’s marked here on the master list as a Tool Shed.

Peter Dessauer: Tool Shed. Not in the best of condition. What building is 410?

Tom Hoffman: 410 is listed as the Generator House.

Peter Dessauer: Generator House.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. In case of emergencies, if the electric lines went out in an emergency they would have to generate their own power. So, of course, just like in the old gun batteries
you also had generators on site to make electricity to run the operation here.

Peter Dessauer: Just west of 410 is another small building which has a concrete pad which appears to be a flagpole. What building was this?

Tom Hoffman: Okay, this was a building according to our map list here it is 409. On the master list it is a (Inter-) connecting Corridor Building. That’s about all the information I have on it. Building 409, (Inter-) connecting Corridor Building.

Peter Dessauer: But its number is 409.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah.

Peter Dessauer: It has two, are those flagpoles we see on either side? What are these big metal…?

Tom Hoffman: It goes down like a road arm.

Peter Dessauer: We are standing on a concrete pad just north of 409. This is all that remains of the previous building labeled 451. Number 452 is…

Tom Hoffman: The Equipment and Operation Building made of concrete.

Peter Dessauer: We are now at 472 and this looks like another tower. What does that read?

Tom Hoffman: That’s right. On the master list it is the Target Tracking Radar Tower and what is interesting here, Pete, is on the older ‘50s map this tower is not here but it suddenly appears on the November 1, 1963 Fort Hancock Building List. So, it was put up a little later after they first established the site.

Peter Dessauer: And just north of 472 is 467.

Tom Hoffman: Right.

Peter Dessauer: It’s another tower.

Tom Hoffman: Another tower. It’s a little different in construction, but once again it’s listed as a Target Ranging Radar Tower. Its 467 and, of course, that again appears on the November 1, 1963 Building List.

Peter Dessauer: All right, what is 468?

Tom Hoffman: 468 is the HIPAR Building. HIPAR radar, the way I understand it was the long range radar that would sweep out over the ocean to make the initial contact with anything flying out there.

Peter Dessauer: And it looks something like a garage. There are now boats stored in here.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. This is lifeguard equipment right here. These are lifeguard surfboats, Pete.

Peter Dessauer: Now, what’s it used for, just for that purpose?

Tom Hoffman: Yeah, a lot of the buildings down here at the Radar Site are used by the lifeguards for winter storage of their lifesaving equipment and I believe the concessionaire is further over to our left, the north and they also have their concession trailers stored here.

Peter Dessauer: 469 foundation stand, the foundations stand is still here. What was it?

Tom Hoffman: Well, it is interesting. It is listed on the 1963 building list as HIPAR base, steel. But of course, that is missing. We have a concrete base and the steel girders are all missing. You can see where they were in place at one point in time.

Peter Dessauer: We are now standing on a concrete platform which is just west of 469, the old tower and we are trying to figure out what this was. We can see some sort of opening hanging down for drainage of water. We believe this was a sewerage area. Tom, I can see that over by the high voltage transformers there are some lifeguard stands, beach lifeguard stands. We are now moving from 469 north towards an enclosed trailer park.

Tom Hoffman: These are the property of H.S. Concessions.

Peter Dessauer: These trailers are stored in a semi surrounded asphalt pad compound that used to be an old basketball court, an open air basketball court. (Information not important.) You can still see the lines for basketball and badminton they used play on this asphalt court. There is even a rusty old basketball net up there, backboard.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. I think there is another one there too on the far side.

Peter Dessauer: We are now moving in a sort of northwesterly direction from the truck trailer park over to a truck ramp and besides that there is also a fire hydrant. Now what was this used for or would you know?

Tom Hoffman: Don’t know. We don’t have any information on it. It’s not on the older map. That is for sure. We do have it on your map here showing all structures. Yeah. It is of Army construction and it has been here ever since they closed the Radar Site.

Peter Dessauer: What would they use this for this ramp? For repair of vehicles they would back up a vehicle and repair it underneath?

Tom Hoffman: You could certainly do that in here. Yet they might have used it for offloading equipment. There is no reason why they should put it all the way up here.

Peter Dessauer: I know there is no platform at the end for reception. Probably for repairs.

Tom Hoffman: As far as I can see we have no building number for it. It is not listed on any of the structures here on the master list.

Peter Dessauer: There appear to be some dark oil stains between the two sides, the two pieces of this truck loading ramp. It is probably a place for car reparations and changing oil in vehicles. There is no number for this truck loading ramp. We are now looking at a small concrete pad that is located between the truck loading ramp and Building T-402. It’s just a concrete pad with four bolts sticking out. They are both rusty and an iron pipe. We will have to identify this later. We are now standing in front of 402. It is padlocked. There seems to be a glass grated covering over each window. What do you think this was once used for, Tom?

Tom Hoffman: Well, we have it listed here on the master list as Alert Barracks.

Peter Dessauer: Alert Barracks. It looks like there are some lawn chairs in there.

Tom Hoffman: Yes. It certainly does look like it.

Peter Dessauer: This barracks is the same construction as the 430 to 433 group over at the Nike Missile Site painted an off white color. Just east of 402 we have 403, which looks like another barracks building. 403 is open. The exterior condition is rusting. Interior painted blue, peeling. What do you think this was used for? There is still some linoleum on the floor.

Tom Hoffman: That’s right. We have it listed once again as an Alert Barracks and you walked in right here stenciled to the right of the front door, the words “Support Contact Team.”

Peter Dessauer: Between 403 and 404 we have the remains of an aluminum telephone booth. All the windows have been smashed out of it. You might write that down on our map just right here. We note that in the telephone booth the telephone says to deposit 10 cents. That might be datable by that information. We are now walking east of 403.

Tom Hoffman: The Army was using….

Peter Dessauer: Where there are two large concrete pad foundations for two former barracks, 404 and 405?

Tom Hoffman: Both were Alert Barracks. 404 and 405 were Alert Barracks.

Peter Dessauer: We do notice that throughout the site there are a lot of night lamp stands that are still standing intact although they no longer work. These and the telephone poles and their lines are not indicated on the map.

Tom Hoffman: As an after thought looking at the light stanchions they seem to date from about the same time as the buildings went up here at the radar site which is probably around the late ‘50s or the lights might have been put in during the 1960s.

Peter Dessauer: All right we are now standing in front of Building T-406.

Tom Hoffman: A latrine.

Peter Dessauer: This serviced the barracks.

Tom Hoffman: Right. Right across from the barracks.

Peter Dessauer: We are standing on a concrete pad which is between the latrine and T-403. All right we will probably just note it as a concrete pad with bearing, bearing directional marks on it. Also it had and iron plate which was a manhole cover perhaps to sewer and drainage. None of the painted directional arrows on this concrete pad look original. They look like they have been done by jokers. Now just west of 406 there is another building. It’s number is T-407. What was this, Tom?

Tom Hoffman: This was a Boiler Room. This is very similar to the Boiler Room down at the Missile Site.

Peter Dessauer: Right.

Tom Hoffman: In fact, it’s got the company that made it.

Peter Dessauer: (inaudible) Manufacturing Company, Missouri.

Tom Hoffman: Kansas City, Missouri.

Peter Dessauer: The boiler is still here although it is a rusty mess.

Tom Hoffman: The wires and tubes have been cut. The thing has been vandalized. It has a hole in it.

Peter Dessauer: It’s rusting away. We have arrived at what appears to be the eastern or northeastern section of the Radar Site. What building number is this, Tom?

Tom Hoffman: This should be Building 454.

Peter Dessauer: 454?

Tom Hoffman: Yep, 454.

Peter Dessauerd what was it used for?

Tom Hoffman: It is Equipment and Operations Building.

Peter Dessauer: Just to the east of 454, the equipment building has some electrical transformers in here surrounded by chain link fence and next to that is a concrete block building about four feet high. What used to be in that?

Tom Hoffman: It had something to do with the transformers. That concrete block structure is 453. The transformers once again do not have a building number.

Peter Dessauer: Or designation. We will have to just draw that in.

Tom Hoffman: We have four transformers here.

Peter Dessauer: Now moving north of the transformers we have come to another concrete block about forty inches by forty inches and painted yellow with black stripes and it seems to,
pipes in the ground.

Tom Hoffman: Then there is also…

Peter Dessauer: A manhole cover.

Tom Hoffman: A manhole or maybe its more drainage here.

Peter Dessauer: Some more sewer.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. Some more drainage. Right over here right behind us is some more pipes. There is another one up here.

Peter Dessauer: This is a septic tank system I think. In this area is abandoned windows are smashed. Metal rusting, the parking lot is full of old pieces it looked like railroad ties.

Tom Hoffman: Rails.

Peter Dessauer: Rails and there are some…

Tom Hoffman: There are old ties. You are right.

Peter Dessauer: Ties, rusting. You can see in the parking lot area here which is located around building, parking lot which is around Building 414. You see the initials Gen. for
General’s parking area. Now standing on the north side of Building 414 which has four different double door entrances. What was this used for, Tom?

Tom Hoffman: 414 on the master list is a Generator House again.

Peter Dessauer: Here are the remains of at least a dozen switchboxes. The interior is a mess of broken glass, peeling paint and sagebrushes. Tom, what do you think this was on the floor?

Tom Hoffman: These are where the generators were.

Peter Dessauer: All right, the generators have been taken away. The generators are missing. We are moving east and north of 414 toward two, the remains of two concrete based radar towers. The first one we are looking at is 417.

Tom Hoffman: That was the Target Tracking Radar Tower.

Peter Dessauer: Target Tracking Radar Tower. A large golf ball dome that used to be on top of this thing no longer exists. Then just north of 417 is 473.

Tom Hoffman: 473 was a later addition which appears on the 1963 building list and it was Target Tracking Radar Tower.

Peter Dessauer: And just to the east of 417 is a small concrete block building.

Tom Hoffman: That is Building 413, another Sentry Box right there.

Peter Dessauer: That is right at the northeast entrance to this little area.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah, right over here on the other side is Atlantic Drive.

Peter Dessauer: Right in the middle of this parking lot area there now stand a large blue trailer that must be 50 feet long.

Tom Hoffman: Most of these trailers are used by the lifeguard staff.

Peter Dessauer: Why do you think that the old railroad ties and the old railroad rails are lying here?

Tom Hoffman: Well, it was back in November of 1978 that the park had Atlantic Drive, which was running right here to the south behind us, repaved. And at three separate points on the old roadway we discovered a number of old railroad rails and ties under the old road bed. This is the old Ordnance Proving Ground Railroad. They ripped up the rails and they transported them here with a number of rotted ties. They transported them here and left them laying here.

Peter Dessauer: Why the dog house?

Tom Hoffman: I don’t know. That is interesting. Apparently some soldier had a pet dog out here. It looks like it is really homemade.

Peter Dessauer: Now just south of the trailer we have feature 412 which looks like another stand or tower stand. What does your list say?

Tom Hoffman: Okay. I am looking it over and I don’t have it listed on the master list. Let’s look at the old map.

Peter Dessauer: According to my plan I have it listed not as 412 but 418.

Tom Hoffman: And also on my map too that goes back to the mid ‘50s it’s also 418 and 418 on the master list is Acquisition Radar Tower.

Peter Dessauer: Okay. That makes sense. Someone changed that 2. That 2 is not as large as the other numerals. Someone changed it at one time. It looks like they painted white over the original sign and then painted 412 for some reason. I don’t know. We are now going to move west of 418. Well, what we really determined was 418. It’s Building 411. 411 is again noted as a (Inter-) connecting Corridor Building. What do you think that was?

Tom Hoffman: I have no idea. The phrase is foreign to me but once again at each Radar Site out here they have a similar building and it has something to do with the operation of the radar equipment here.

Peter Dessauer: Now between 411 and 414 there seems to be some sort of a trench which has small concrete walls. It’s in the ground. It looks more like a drain or duct.

Tom Hoffman: Right Pete. I can see it right behind you coming off the Building 411. The rainwater can funnel right down this concrete trench all the way down and out that way going northward.

Peter Dessauer: We are walking towards feature 419 which is another tower stand concrete and steel beams. What was this used for?

Tom Hoffman: Okay, 419 was the Missile Tracking Radar Tower again.

Peter Dessauer: This the afternoon of Thursday, August 23. Tom Hoffman, Russell Marsh and Barney and I are here at the Nike Missile site on Sandy Hook, Gateway and we are going to talk about the Missile Silos and we are going to descend into one of them.

Russell Marsh: This is the site of Alpha Section (428 on map). There are four sections. Alpha being the first section as soon as you come into the….To your left is Bravo. Across from Alpha is Charlie and cattycornered from that is Delta. Alpha section was probably the best section. Probably, I say that because it is the first section you came into. The first thing that would hit your eye right away. I was in my second tour of duty here. I was section chief here. I started with Bravo Section as an E-4. Well, actually as a private first class. Moved to become a Spec(alist)-4. Went to Korea and came back later to earn Spec-5 and I was given the rank of section chief. I had approximately 10-12 people working for me at that time and one of our main things, tours of duty was to insure the maintenance of the missiles, the maintenance of the launchers, the safety of the missile and the safety of the launchers in it and the work conditions of itself. This first little block here used to be a generator shack which would be the first thing you check in the morning. Every morning when you had your 24. The duty rosters would usually went 24 hours on, 24 hours off. 8 hours (on) and 8 hours (off). On your 24 hours on, after you got a few hours sleep you would be here at 5:30, 6:00 in the morning and you had to do daily checks on the missiles to insure the safety of them. And your first thing you would start with would be on this block over here. On this block over here there would be a generator and there would be safety check.

Peter Dessauer: Now we have an entrance hatch opened. This block you are talking about is just east of it, just east of it. It’s called an inspection block?

Russell Marsh: No. It was where the generator block was.

Peter Dessauer: The generator block.

Russell Marsh: It’s where the start of the inspections would go. Where you start for your missile safety checks. Okay. The hatch has I can look going before we even take a step down there I can see there is a large amount of water. Now anytime it rained we always had that problem of water. We always had to get the squeegees out and fill the water. This would be the mainstream where the action where everything happened. We actually lived down in these pits during times of war. If you can remember the Arab War, the Seven Day War between Israel and Egypt?

Peter Dessauer: ‘67

Tom Hoffman: Then they had the ’73.

Russell Marsh: The ’73 one is the one that I am talking about.

Tom Hoffman: Right.

Russell Marsh: Well, one day I slept late and I was driving into the base. And I am normally cruising on listening to Wolfman Jack in the morning or, it wasn’t Wolfman Jack at the time it was one of the crazy radio announcers I was always listening. And as I turned to my right I saw all the missiles up and I immediately got scared. I knew it wasn’t a drill so early in the morning. So, the next thing I knew I found out that they were trying to call me all that night and they had a recall and I almost got into a lot of trouble for that because they had a recall system that no matter where you were you had to be on call at all times. They had to be able to get hold of you. As it worked out my phone was broke and they couldn’t get through. It was just an odd thing. And we had to stay down here for approximately 5 days and live on C rations and K rations which were probably better than the cafeteria food. That is not really a joke. They are excellent food. If you ever get a hold of some C rations or K rations eat them. They are delicious. The security on this, this big metal pit that you see here, the latch, okay, they were electrical sensitizers. You can see the metal part over here, okay. Whenever this was opened where the first badge where we haven’t critiqued that yet but there used to be a building outside which is down now which you would have to have another badge. And there was an electrical system there and there was an electrical system which we talked about earlier down at the sergeant of the guard. Whenever this was opened if the keys were not turned on over there it would be a light would go off and then the next thing you would know if you were looking up here you would see a bunch of soldiers running up with M-16s and dogs and the whole bit. It would not be a friendly sight if you had the fortune enough to sneak in or the unfortunate enough. One problem with this system was whenever it was windy and it is windy up here, it goes off almost all the time. So, there was a lot of false alarms but they had to treat every false alarm like it was the real thing. Okay. That little metal thing you see over there was where the cables were running. It was a constant…

Peter Dessauer: Its sort of …Northwest of the hatch that is open now.

Russell Marsh: Right. There was a lot of cables, heavy cables. When we were talking about launchers and stuff we had a lot of cables and you had to run a lot of cables because you had your little, there was the launchers. Okay there was three launchers out here in the open that you could see. There was one over here and there was two over to the right. The other launcher was on the elevator itself as you come up. Okay. Now with the launchers outside. You had a panel, a panel operator which was outside adjacent to that. Each one to a launcher there was one downstairs. (The) interesting thing about this system was when you sent out the last missile they had a thing called a reload. When you pushed the missile out onto the launcher and the blast doors would be closed in the event of an attack. As soon as you pushed the button for a reload the missile would start coming up. The doors would open and the missile and the launcher would be coming up at the same time and it would be simultaneous that the launcher and the missile locked all at once. It was one of the most magnificent sights that you could see in weaponry with that system itself.

Peter Dessauer: I have a question Russ.

Russell Marsh: Sure.

Peter Dessauer: Could you once again explain which one was Alpha, Bravo, Charlie according to, the one we are going to descend into is the southwest?

Russell Marsh: Right.

Peter Dessauer: Alpha. Southwest was Alpha. Now southeast…

Russell Marsh: On the poles, if you look at the poles, the light poles they have Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta on them also. One of the last remaining things that they have.

Peter Dessauer: So that is B over there. So northwest is…

Tom Hoffman: Northwest corner.

Peter Dessauer: Is Bravo (427) and this one in the southeast was…

Tom Hoffman: Charlie (426).

Peter Dessauer: And northeast was...

Tom Hoffman: Delta (425).

Russell Marsh: Delta Dawn we used to call it. That was when that song came out, “Delta Dawn, what have the flowers gone.” We used to sing a song, “Delta Dawn where have your missiles gone wrong.”

Peter Dessauer: Were they the worst?

Russell Marsh: Well, we tried to kid them. It looked like the most run down system of all of them paint-wise because there was an excellent sergeant running them and he kept his missiles in shape but he left the maybe the walls and the outer interior didn’t look as good. And there was a lot of trick secrets that you could use to like say painting a launcher. Like we used to add maybe a little alcohol in with the paint or so and it thinned it out a little but it made it shiny and it always impressed a general when he came in. they wanted to see it shiny because even if you painted it and made it last longer it didn’t matter. They were still going to make you paint it in three months and say, “Hey, its time to paint your launchers. Do it anyway.” So, you might as well do it for a short period of time and make it look good. That is one of the keys to an inspection. It’s what the generals would look for because they would come up with a surprise inspection. You never knew when. This elevator door you will see it’s had yellow line around it. They always wanted to keep you away from it at all times. There was a warning luckily that say you were walking on the elevator doors the bell would ring. There was a bell that would ring for approximately like 10 seconds before the doors started to open. So, if you were walking on that and we heard the bells ring its time to get off quickly. And that was always one of the main beefs on security. The back hatch you will see over there in the back is basically an escape hatch in case of a fire, okay because we are dealing with a lot of explosives and stuff and the site ports over here are basically vents. Now the vents had two full purposes. If in the event that someone had got in and as we go down I will talk more about the security doors down there but if someone got past and locked you out so we could not get a guard or a dog down there we would lower a dog down there. If you couldn’t do that you could smoke them out. And they would close off the vent from the top and send it out. That was a vent also.

Peter Dessauer: So we were talking about three vents, an emergency hatch, the elevator doors, the main hatchway, the generator stand and what was over there?

Tom Hoffman: That was for cables.

Peter Dessauer: Cables.

Russell Marsh: Cables running over here and we had our water.

Peter Dessauer: Water. I will photograph those things when we come up.

Russell Marsh: Let’s take a descent. Right over here on the top you will see four lights, locking bar lights. What they were was for the elevator, okay. Whenever the elevator went up and down it had to be lit. Okay and one of the things there was always a man on the panel room and his job would have to be locking bar light illuminated. And you would have to state that these lights were on. If these lights were not on no one could get onto the elevator because the elevator could drop and you have to stay in place. Whenever we were transporting a big wig, a general or someone, they had to be lit. This is basically starts your reload system. Okay. That’s the automatic system that put the launcher up, okay. This room right in here was probably the most important room. It was the panel. After you had near the panel here which was the communication between the radar and the missile site. Now as soon as the status, you had different light status. You had amber, blue, red, okay. Whenever blue when we had a drill or so we would give a status and it would be given out and the section chief would be out here. There was a section chief, four workers and a panel operator. And you would try to take the cream of the crop, okay. Now the section chief would be checking up on everybody’s job. He would have the keys around his neck and there would be a little safe inside which would be arming it. And as you are arming it any information or any change of status the panel operator would be giving out to the section chief and the section chief there is an intercom would be yelling back to make sure there is a verification. As the drill proceeded, the section chief came in here. And after all the missiles were ready and on their way up, they would be running down here. Everybody comes down here and the crewmen have to count off to ensure that everybody is down here and all the blast doors are closed. And here is where the actual firing of the missile would be and in case of a communications breakdown between IFC. The IFC Battery Commander would be the one to shoot the missile. Quite often there might be a communication breakdown and the panel operator himself would shoot the missile and usually the panel operator was almost on the same forward as section chief because he had to know his job quite well and it was important to have a good one okay. (Sound of walking in standing water.) Moving along in here. You will notice you have a large blast door and behind the blast door if we can open it which is always difficult and probably closed.

Tom Hoffman: It’s jammed in there.

Russell Marsh: Well, in back of that you can see a big closet. I don’t know if we have anything in there or if you can see anything in there. It remains to be seen. Okay this was, we had tools and stuff.

Tom Hoffman: The closet right behind this blast door.

Russell Marsh: Now, we always tried to hide things back there like paint and stuff because the paint was supposed to go all the way down to the other end but there was it was a big hassle so a lot of times we tried to hide it behind there. But you could get into a lot of trouble if they found it back there. We always would try to look for a hiding spot back here. And it was also a big poster in back of this door which used to state in case of a nuclear attack and the final saying was put your head between your legs and kiss your backside goodbye.

Tom Hoffman: You are down here for a reason now. Was this for storage and also for other reason for other reasons besides storing the missiles down here or is it for protection, camouflage?

Russell Marsh: A little bit of both. The camouflage, it wasn’t great camouflage but it did afford good protection in case of a barrage. Machine gun fire, gun fire, mortar fire would not be all that effective against it. Against the wall over here you will see a pin board right over here which would be the duty rosters of everybody and more or less gave safety procedures. It would show you your fire procedures and different procedures like that. (Walking though water) It’s not too bad in here. It was always worse in here.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah, there is the water there.

Russell Marsh: Right here is the panel for the elevator. You had the elevator operator over in this part. Right here would be the safe. There used to be a safe that would have arming devices for the missiles, okay because the missiles weren’t armed. They used to have a pin. A little round pin, they had different pins that would fit in symmetrically into the warhead itself and the section chief would check it and there would be one man arming it. The section chief would be right behind him. Meanwhile, they had the elevator which was run off 440 power. So, they used to pull 440. Later, they converted it but I, the Missile Site, it was the 440. This is pretty self explanatory, okay. They had it would be in a locked position and this was the water hose. The ceiling lights, the power lights, the main lights okay. 416, it used to be 440. There is the 440 right there. And you can see the size of the cables we basically dealt with. They were large cables with the head that were a pin index right in there. Basically in the dark so if someone was coming down here and they had a flashlight and were just looking this would be basically about where the missile would stop. It would give you an idea so you wouldn’t walk into it.

Peter Dessauer: How many missiles were down here at one time?

Russell Marsh: Well, you had I believe six missiles. Okay, three on each side. You had four launchers. Some may have had five because you always had one going down to maintenance for work on it in some case or another. There was always one out. One had a LCA, Launcher Control Indicator. It use to be called in boxes upstairs and I was talking about and you might run checks on the missiles with. You’d periodically took a missile up and just check out on it. We would send a missile up and they would check to see the azimuth, the yaw, the pitch, they would have like an imaginary flight of it. And we would be sending in commands and we would be reading back what it is doing. Is there a pitch? Is there a yaw in it? How long it is? Which direction is the missile rolling? Which direction is the missile going? The good thing about the protection on it whenever you walk in here in the dark on the nuclear missiles they had the red cover for the vein because it had a very sharp and thin vein that you could put your eye out very easy. But that was the heart of the guidance system. It would tell the direction of the wind is and okay the missiles had to have proper heating okay. The elevator was run off of hydraulic fluid, okay. You had to come here and I see there still is fluid here. There is still in semi pretty good condition. This one would have to be run periodic checks on. As a matter of fact, there was daily checks but as far as the maintenance it was periodic. And probably one of the worst jobs of the Nike Hercules men would be maintenance on an elevator because it was grease and everybody would just you know you come in looking nice and pretty and then all of sudden bang you are all greased up. And underneath the pits there was a space. The missile off of the elevator onto the rail you have to grab a clothes line and pull the pork chop down so that the elevator so that it would go past. Each little rail had its stopping point.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. They were transferred over. They were on what would you call them?

Russell Marsh: You mean on the rail?

Tom Hoffman: Yeah on the rail. Was there a term?

Russell Marsh: No. You would just call them on the rail. The stoppers they would have to grab would be a rope and a pork chop we used to call them, okay. Because the pork chop was just a swinging device and if you didn’t pull it down it would stay in the up position and it would stop the missile, so a pork chop, it looked like a pork chop. It looked like a little round pork chop.

Tom Hoffman: This elevator now is in water. I wonder if it would work because it is under water there just underneath it.

Russell Marsh: There is a drain down below. Apparently it must be clogged.

Tom Hoffman: How deep is it under the elevator platform?

Russell Marsh: It’s over your head.

Peter Dessauer: There is a stair going…

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. I can see the stairs on either side here.

Russell Marsh: Yeah, there are stairs but then you could get, if someone was underneath the elevator if there were standing up they wouldn’t be able to stand up. You could get underneath this elevator in a low crawl. I think it was probably basically designed if somebody fell asleep or of someone was underneath there they could protection and not get crushed.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah we were just talking about some of the facets of serving here at the missile site with Russ and one of the things that intrigued us yesterday was that down over at the warhead ready building there. There is just outside the building is the concrete flooring there. The sidewalk is…

Peter Dessauer: Undulating.

Tom Hoffman: Undulating, yes. I was asking Russ the reason for that.

Russell Marsh: Basically when moving the missiles or whatever you keep steady. You wouldn’t go in one direction or the other direction. It was quite windy here at times and something like this kept it quite steady. That was probably the worst duty is by the missile assembly building and the back there, the berms around it because you always had to have guards there. Two guards walking the top. There would be a gentleman on the stationary position. They had the badge system there also. And being that there was warrant officers working in there and they were working on a warhead they would take their time. But you would be in out in the cold freezing your backside off and you would be cursing them out under your breath wondering, “What the hell are they doing? When are they going to come?” So the worst duty you could probably pull was berm duties. And the Missile Assembly Section, the building you see straight down there that was the little Pentagon. That was where all the officers, warrant officers, misters would be in there. And on my average duty day, I would inspect men and barracks to make sure they had the bunks made because this platoon sergeant was to check them and he might say something to them but it would definitely get back to me. So, I’d make sure that they were okay. I would come back down here to do the daily checks with my men and then I would take a walk down to Missile Assembly and all these sergeants would be down there drinking coffee. (It was) the basic place that is the nucleus for any information around here. What was what had to be done? Who was coming? Who was what, where? When the maintenance was due on it, the missile every missile had a serial number and every launcher had a serial number. And I would copy down what was due for today so I needed to know exactly what I had to do.

Tom Hoffman: You put in a lot of time here. Any standout event? Any important, you know, vips ever visit or anything that you really had to look sharp or…?

Russell Marsh: Well, the funny thing about that is there was a show on “MASH” one time that covered it perfect. A big general was coming, a four start general, three star general. I don’t quite remember his name. And we had a G.I. party and it was like maybe five days and five nights nothing but cleaning, cleaning, cleaning and cleaning. And he came here and I think he was here maybe a half hour. And I think he left and I don’t think he looked at anything. But I don’t think he really cared. And it took me it was so funny because everybody was speechless after it was all over and they reported he was gone and everybody looked at each other saying, “What? What?”

Tom Hoffman: He was here already.

Russell Marsh: In Korea, when I was in Korea we had a similar situation happen. We were painting fences. It was funny. Like one guy would be on the outside spray painting. The other guy would be on the inside painting. The guy would spray paint each other. We were running out of paint. We had a Ready Room over there. We didn’t have much paint so what we did was painted the front portion of it and the back portion wasn’t painted and we hoped that he didn’t go in the back. The general did the same thing. He drove through, waved and that was it. Sometimes I think it’s the Army’s way or reason to get ready for an inspection.

Tom Hoffman: Russ, we were talking about the security system about the guard dogs. How did that work again?

Russell Marsh: Well, the security system probably you would have to start back at the battery system which goes to the front gate and then you have the second gate which we will be talking about a little bit later. And there was different duress codes that they had. And that was a funny event we are talking about security. They had a thing called a duress code. Like say there was a big wig coming in with the battery commander or something but now say it wasn’t somebody. So, he would be under duress. Say there was a gun pointed and say, “I’m going to kill you.” There would be a word that he would say to one of the guards at the key house. He would say, “Gee how are the wife and kids doing?” or “Did you buy any bananas today?” Well, one day the word was “rose” and the battery commander, his wife bought him roses. He said, “Hey is it your wife’s birthday?” He said, “Yeah, she bought me a rose today,” and he had a big smile. He forgot about the duress code, right. And he is up there with a big wig from Washington and they are coming up there. He completely forgot about it and all of a sudden you see 10-20 troops coming up with M-16s locked and loaded and the guys getting ready to get the dogs out. It was just a funny sight. It was just really funny.

Tom Hoffman: We are also mentioning about the guard dogs and their trainers would be outside the perimeter of the whole missile site?

Russell Marsh: Well, they never really went outside of the fence here. It was just in this immediate area.

Tom Hoffman: Area. Okay outside from where….

Russell Marsh: And they went outside of the fences around here. A lot of times they would bring them in. We did mention it was cold here. A lot of times they were inside the guard house with them and they were excellent warmth. Usually they would let a dog out and they would let them roam free. They weren’t supposed to but they did anyway. And there was also a guard dog, Zonkers, which wasn’t a guard dog but he would always went around and would warn anybody of any big wig coming. But the Sheppard’s each had a guard handler and everyone had a dog and were assigned to a dog. And they would roam around with it. There was approximately six dogs, seven, eight dogs. They had a listing of them. And whenever a dog got too crazy or something they would have to destroy him. If somebody couldn’t handle him or if somebody was leaving a lot of times they might not be able to rehabilitate the dog, change the dog. And the same thing would hold true if the dog was too friendly which probably was more the case than not because I could think of a couple of dogs that guard dogs that I became friendly with that I wasn’t supposed to. As far as you know, when you see a German Sheppard wagging its tail and coming up to you its hard not to pet the dog but if you look at his teeth he can hurt.

Peter Dessauer: We are standing in front of building S-449. What was this used to for?

Russell Marsh: This was the Missile Assembly. This is where they took the missile out. Say we had to do work on the missile. They would take it into the Missile Assembly. They would take the warhead out okay. Then they would transport a warhead back into the pit, into the missile section itself. Let’s say we have work to be done on the missile it would be done here. And the security didn’t need to be that tight if it was just the missile without the warhead. The fail safe we are talking about that we had to worry about. The little room over to your right is just a bathroom, okay. Inside here onto the left of the wall would be the duty rosters. The rosters of what I was talking about of the maintenance of the missiles itself. What had to be done? The serial number and whatever had to be performed on it. These doors are different. We used to have heavy chained doors. They would come down on a heavy chain. It’s pretty much the same though. You can see a missile could fit in here quite comfortably. Over in the far right corner, that would be the coffee city. I think we kept Columbia in business. Juan Valdez must have loved us. There was a lot of coffee that used to be drunk here. Up in the top section we used to have different types of supplies. There was grease. There was lights, just minor supplies would kept on the top there. Okay, T-hooks, assemblies a lot of metals. Whenever there was something needed okay there was a parts clerk that was here. And like I say every missile had to have screw on it had to be torqued 150 foot pounds which was quite a lot. If you had a big gorilla doing it quite often they might strip them. So when you come down here you had to order it and there was a parts clerk down here that you would have to look up the exact number and give you the exact part that you needed.

Peter Dessauer: We are now looking at Building S-450 and we are on the west berm surrounding that.

Russell Marsh: This is your hated duty. The old berm guard in the warhead section where the warheads would have to be pulled in. You had a guard down there where the guard would have to change badge with everybody that came in. They ran a field phone. A field wire with phone would be right here to the little key house which isn’t here no more. When we go back I will talk about. That was a form of communications because he would have to tell who is coming and what his purpose was and he would have to state it to the guard here. The two guards would be walking. They couldn’t stand and chat. Like I couldn’t walk down here and talk with the guard over here. I would have to keep moving and they would look for that. And they would be inside. The warrant officer would be inside and it was pretty good security in there because they locked the door and they wouldn’t let you see what was going on too much. It was just the warrant officers and the parts clerk might be there, a technician of some sort.

Peter Dessauer: Why the lights?

Russell Marsh: Why the lights? Okay. Two fold purpose. In case it was ever done at night and besides being at night if there was ever an infiltrator they could turn the lights on them and they could find them pretty easy. You notice this is done on the inside. It is mostly for transporting. They wanted to make sure it was safe because say they put it in and all of a sudden a complication had happened, right, they may still want to work on it. You really couldn’t leave it in here overnight not without keeping guards on constantly and that will drive a guard up the wall being out here in the cold so you might work on them when you need to pull it out there to keep the lights on. Just as there are lights up in the other section. Now they did have war games also. We played war games here. There would be evaluator would come here and use that as a headquarters or so and we used to play war games like, “Bang. You are dead.” A guy would come in and give you a note, Bang you are dead. Things like that. You know the war games were the interesting portion. It was pretty fun.

Peter Dessauer: What is the difference between S -450 and the other building 449?

Russell Marsh: Okay. S-450 was your Warhead Building. That’s where actually the whole missile would be brought in. You would take the warhead out, okay. Now if we had to work on the warhead we would do the work right then and there and the guard would have to be here all day and that’s a pain. Now if you need to work on the missile they would pull the missile in. They take the warhead out. Bring the warhead back to the pits okay to whatever section it was taken out of. And then the missile would go to the Assembly Section in the other building, okay. 450 was basically for the nuclear working, okay. Taking out the warhead.

Tom Hoffman: I am interested in knowing how the warhead was transferred, the transportation of it from here to there.

Russell Marsh: Carefully.

Tom Hoffman: Carefully. Was it in a small truck or trailer or..?

Russell Marsh: It had its own little canister. It had a simple canister approximately six feet wide. Approximately four feet high and it had its own little wheels which was put in. It was airtight and it was sealed and it had a wire seal so you could see if somebody was tampering with the seal so in the morning if you went to do your daily checks and check the warhead and everything you make sure that that seal hasn’t been tampered with or somebody has got a price to pay.

Tom Hoffman: And it was under armed guard?

Russell Marsh: At all times. All times.

Peter Dessauer: We are looking at the undulating concrete pavement here at 450. That still mystifies me as to what this was used for.

Tom Hoffman: Okay, Russ.

Russell Marsh: Maintenance and working on a missile you didn’t want it to move around too much. Okay. As you look you see the two platforms over there. There was a little thing inside the warhead. On a daily check called M-30s or M-80s. When you opened it up it had two little screws you opened up and it was like a glass door and it had a white window or a red window. Hopefully you said a white window. If you saw a red window you are in trouble. In the back of it, it had almost like a .22. If you pulled it out and jarred it too long it would shoot out which was one of the arming devices of the missile. It would shoot out into the warhead okay. Now they had a little stand over here, a metal stand a four legged stand and it would have a top to it and you would reach in and have a dent in there and you would look in and check it over in these little section, okay. But over here you didn’t want if it was quite windy and you had something on wheels or something it might move around. Having it in this section here eliminated the need for blocks or whatever. It kept it pretty stationary. It was wheeled on. It had it is hard to explain. It would be almost impossible to try and explain because they had different types of large cranes which was….

Peter Dessaue: In other words, what we see here cannot be explained but only graphically.

Russell Marsh: Right. Right.

Peter Dessauer: In other words, these undulations are the place where the front and back wheels of the trailer which carried the missile would rest so it won’t roll away.

Tom Hoffman: You mean the guard dogs?

Russell Marsh: Yeah. The guard dogs would in back of the hooch, the guard dog trailers. They had a big area over there and the guards would have the dogs well trained to do whatever they want and they had certain training programs that they would give the dogs and they would have to be checked out by the duty officer, the security guard and everything. Every so often you would see them out there and there was some interesting shows they would put on. You know certain jumps just like in the circus almost.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah. That fenced off area just behind the kennel cages right?

Russell Marsh: Right.

Peter Dessauer: What’s that little concrete block building right next to the kennels? What was that used for?

Russell Marsh: That was a feed room for the dogs food and different, they had a lot of flack vests. Whenever they were putting a show on, there were different demonstrations they put on for the public. And dogs were trained to go for certain parts of a persons body, the arm being one of them if the guy had a gun. Now one of the soldiers would volunteer. He would put on a heavy vest jacket on and he would stand there and be attacked by the dog and the dog would grab the padded area and the guy would be okay. He was heavily padded but it would demonstrate to the public that this dog means business. He was not to joke with. Then they had full attack wear incase somebody was…

Peter Dessauer: They would demonstrate right out here?

Russell Marsh: They gave them out there and I saw one given out in front of the gate out here. They didn’t, the only persons who had demonstrations over here was the big wigs. I think that there was a public one given in ’73 or so at the gated area just before the front. The people out in front here.

Peter Dessauer: Okay we are looking at our map here for us and looking at the concrete block which is a floor foundation of a structure number 448. Tell us about 448 or what this little thing right next to the entrance for the Nike silo compound is?

Russell Marsh: Probably most important because it was just before you got in the gated area. You got another your final exchange of badge. And the badge and everything. Everyone knew the gate guards and everybody knew everybody here. And there was a badge system set up in here that everybody had a holder with their name in it and the gate guard would come out and give you your badge and change and open the gate for you when you were coming or leaving. There was the electrical system set up here that they had the idea of who was in what pit and where. And one interesting story that I can tell you about this one time they had an electrical heater there that I saw a friend of mine was sitting on. We had an electrical storm and it hit a pole nearby and it charged that baby. He went flying. It definitely gave him a good shock. Anyway, these tiles I remember putting in myself because we used to have just a concrete floor then the general or colonel decided that he wanted it looking a little bit nicer. It really looks good today.

Peter Dessauer: It’s a mess.

Russell Marsh: It’s a mess but this was more or less the key to a lot of activities. You found out what was coming on and coming off and you would wait for anybody that would be coming into the site or going out to the site. It would be a lookout for a lot of spots because over here you could see all the activities that were going on. You could see what was going on at the IFC. You could see what was going on at the missile assembly. Who was in the section so if ever you wanted to find somebody in the site here is where you would be. It would tell you where to go because the guards would know if they are down at the missile assembly or if they are here they would call the gate guard and its where card games were played at night.

Tom Hoffman: Really?

Russell Marsh: Illegal card games.

Tom Hoffman: Yeah.

Russell Marsh: And Zonkers would always hang out here, the mascot.

Tom Hoffman: By the way, was it just a mutt or was it a…

Russell Marsh: It was a Heinz. 57 variety. (laughter)

Tom Hoffman: By the way we were looking at our master list. The building is listed as concrete but you could see it wasn’t. was it metal or…

Russell Marsh: Yeah. It was basically metal. Basic metal, wood, there was a lot of wood to it. It looks like it tore down pretty easy. It was a large Plexiglas windows out the side. We had Plexiglas because if we did fire it would shatter every window there was. Okay, so you had to have it for that reason plus for visibility you had. You needed visibility. You needed protection. It would be plastic. They did have drills that they would simulate taping the windows in the event that if there was going to be a blast that they did had time to be here taping and then they would eventually leave the premise just before the blast because this would probably get a little scorched. Get a little hot in the vicinity. (Tape stops and restarts.) Okay all this grown here was never here before. This was smooth. It was smooth.

Tom Hoffman: Like down there? On that flat surface?

Russell Marsh: Even down there, like there. It was flat. It was nicely trimmed. Everything was mowed at all times and they definitely did take good care of this.

Tom Hoffman: By the way, who did the mowing? Was it once again your…

Russell Marsh: My crew, Bravo Crew, Charlie Crew, Delta Crew, whoever was on the shit list for the day. Quite often I would eliminate it down to a couple of people and I would ask trivia questions of people in my section. If someone couldn’t come up with a trivia question they were the man picked because it was fair. I was serving duty for cutting the grass. I was watching Hollywood Squares I believe and one of the question was you call a female dog a bitch, what is a male dog called? And he said a bastard. Well, the answer was just plain dog. So, he wound up cutting the grass for the day and he will never forget that a male dog is called a dog and not a bastard. He might have called me one but…

Peter Dessauer: Now we are in front of T-429. What do you remember this as?

Russell Marsh: This is the generator, okay. This is where your basic power to the site lied right here. If we had, we were both commercial and by private by ourselves. In the event of a commercial drop we could pick up power just by ourselves and if you go inside you see there used to be large machinery in there. I really didn’t know that much about generators. I worked with them around me in Korea a lot. I can tell you used to have to wear big Mickey Mouse ears you used to have to wear because you start using your hearing quickly. I can tell you that.

Tom Hoffman: From all the noise generated by the generator.

Russell Marsh: Definitely.

Tom Hoffman: So, this would make electricity right here. Is this like a backup system?

Russell Marsh: Exactly. It was a backup system. Periodically we would have to run drills and make sure that the system is okay. It would be checked weekly at least.

Tom Hoffman: And once again, it was men of your battery that would be in charge of it.

Russell Marsh: Right. Exactly.

Tom Hoffman: What would the rating be for someone who would be in charge of something like that? Did they have a special rating?

Russell Marsh: No. It was a staff sergeant, E-6, E-5 or spec-5. What was interesting here was the ratings was basically in specialists, okay. They tried doing away with the sergeant and corporal. They tried making everybody spec-5s, spec-4, staff sergeant. But you know spec-5 and sergeant being one in the same. At the time they tried doing it. S-447 was basically oil and paint, well mostly grease, okay. There was another paint shack. I don’t think it is right here right now. It was destroyed. It was right on the outside.

Peter Dessauer: Right on the outside of what, Russ?

Russell Marsh: Right on the outside of the fenced area there should be another like shack.

Peter Dessauer: Where would that be on the map?

Russell Marsh: 447, here is the Ready Room.

Peter Dessaue: That’s our little guardhouse. The one that doesn’t exist anymore. That is crossed out.

Russell Marsh: That’s it. That’s where the paint was.

Peter Dessauer: It was a little paint… RM: It was a paint house.

Peter Dessauer: And it looked just like 447.

Russell Marsh: No. It was larger. It was quite larger and it had a lot of paint, a lot of different types of paint. Mostly yellow paint, red paint, black paint and OD, Olive drab.

Tom Hoffman: That would be way down along the fence down there. RM: Right. TH: Because I just know what I am pointing to here is a concrete foundation which I don’t think we have either here.

Peter Dessauer: It’s about a hundred feet from 429. What was that for? Do you remember, Russ?

Russell Marsh: This one I don’t really remember what it was for. It might have been a little generator shack. 447 was mostly for grease. I used to come in here and there was another substance that was like a tar that you could use it like undercoating your car. That we used to use it for any parts of metals that would be exposed that wouldn’t be painted. It was like an undercoating, okay and that was basically what it was used for. S456, the little guardhouse where the persons would come in and you get your first badge. You would come in and the guard would give you your badge and it would be for this. The duress code would be first probably given here unless it would be given at the fence but more than likely it would probably be given here because if it was given in the beginning the officer would probably not have as good a chance as up here. Usually they were told to give the duress code here. And they would have a little heater in here. At night time no one would be guarding this. This is only a daytime shift for the people that would be working here. Okay. Against the wall you can see that is where the badge system was. And it went from ranking and sections. The sergeants would be on the top and privates would be going on the bottom. This was pretty cold here in winter. The heater didn’t work too good as everything and this brings back a lot of bitter memories. No. It brings back a lot of memories.

Tom Hoffman: Boring memories, right?

Russell Marsh: Boring memories. But this, a lot of people liked this duty because they didn’t have to face anybody. They were here by themselves. You bring a little radio and as long as you kept it on low you know you could listen to music at least. It wasn’t too bad a duty right here at least being in this guard house as being in a lot of the other ones.

END OF INTERVIEW