Mary Kay Westwood Oral History Interview

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ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WITH MARY KAY WESTWOOD

AUGUST 28, 1989
INDEPENDENCE, MISSOURI

INTERVIEWED BY ANDREW DUNAR
ORAL HISTORY #1989-10
This transcript corresponds to audiotapes DAV-AR #3614-3615

HARRY S TRUMAN NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE
NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

EDITORIAL NOTICE

This is a transcript of a tape-recorded interview conducted for Harry S Truman National Historic Site. After a draft of this transcript was made, the park provided a copy to the interviewee and requested that he or she return the transcript with any corrections or modifications that he or she wished to be included in the final transcript. The interviewer, or in some cases another qualified staff member, also reviewed the draft and compared it to the tape recordings. The corrections and other changes suggested by the interviewee and interviewer have been incorporated into this final transcript. The transcript follows as closely as possible the recorded interview, including the usual starts, stops, and other rough spots in typical conversation. The reader should remember that this is essentially a transcript of the spoken, rather than the written, word. Stylistic matters, such as punctuation and capitalization, follow the Chicago Manual of Style, 14th edition. The transcript includes bracketed notices at the end of one tape and the beginning of the next so that, if desired, the reader can find a section of tape more easily by using this transcript.
Andrew Dunar and Jim Williams reviewed the draft of this transcript. Their corrections were incorporated into this final transcript by Perky Beisel in summer 2000. A grant from Eastern National Park and Monument Association funded the transcription and final editing of this interview.

RESTRICTION

Researchers may read, quote from, cite, and photocopy this transcript without permission for purposes of research only. Publication is prohibited, however, without permission from the Superintendent, Harry S Truman National Historic Site.

ABSTRACT

Mary K. Westwood’s [10 April 1920—9 August 1996] husband, Mike Westwood, was Harry S Truman’s personal bodyguard throughout his years as an elder statesman. Truman was a father figure to Mr. Westwood, and Mrs. Westwood became part of that familial relationship as well. Her closeness to the Trumans allowed her to meet many famous television stars and politicians. She discussed some of Mrs. Truman’s favorite restaurants, and addressed the relationship between her husband and the secret Service.

Persons mentioned: Bess W. Truman, Harry S Truman, Margaret Truman Daniel, Michael Manners, Dave Noyes, Stuart Symington, Rose Conway, Andy Gray, Georgia Neese Clark Gray, Jack Benny, Hubert H. Humphrey, Lorne Greene, Festus, Doc, J. Vivian Truman, Mary Jane Truman, Herbert C Hoover, Agatha Christie, Valeria LaMere, May Wallace, Vietta Garr, Polly Compton, Grace Carvin, Dorsy Lou Warr, Brian Warr, Ardis Haukenberry, Doris Miller, Richard Nixon, Lyndon B. Johnson, and Dwight D. Eisenhower.

ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WITH MARY KAY WESTWOOD

HSTR INTERVIEW #1989-10

ANDREW DUNAR: Today we’re interviewing Mrs. Mary Kay Westwood. We’re in the offices of the National Park Service at 223 North Main. Today is August 28, 1989. If we could start out, maybe if you could just tell us a little bit about the first time you met Mr. Truman.
MARY KAY WESTWOOD: Well, I believe it was in 1957. My husband took me up to the house. They wanted to meet me, so we went up there. And I was a little nervous meeting Mr. and Mrs. Truman.
DUNAR: Sure.
WESTWOOD: But when I got in the house, they were so gracious and so friendly and so common that you immediately felt at ease. Mrs. Truman sort of got me in a Jackie. I didn’t drink. And she asked me what I’d like to have to drink and, not drinking, I said, “Oh, I’ll just have bourbon and water.” I never will forget. She had a jigger, one end was a double one and the other one was a regular jigger on a long handle, a beautiful thing. [chuckling] Well, she gave me the double. [chuckling] Well, it, of course, made me loop-legged. And I wanted to be nice so much, you know. I guess I did behave myself, but that was my first experience with that. We sat out on the back porch. And they were both very, very gracious people, and they really made you feel welcome. And I certainly loved both of them.
DUNAR: Yes. Did Mrs. Truman have a drink at that time?
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WESTWOOD: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Well, we all had a drink.
DUNAR: Did she have the same thing, bourbon?
WESTWOOD: No, she didn’t. Yes, she drank bourbon, but, well, right this minute I can’t remember what she drank. Mr. Truman drank Old Yellowstone, I remember that.
DUNAR: Oh, yeah.
WESTWOOD: So that was my first experience meeting them. And I was up there numerous times. Mrs. Truman loved jokes, and we’d call each other and tell the latest jokes we’d heard.
DUNAR: Oh, is that right?
WESTWOOD: Yeah, she liked them real good. I know one time she was in the hospital, and she called me and said, “Mary Kay, why don’t you come on over?” And I said, “Well, Mrs. Truman, they won’t let me up there.” And she said, “Oh, yes, they will.” So I went over—it was in Research Hospital—and went in and visited with her, and I asked her if she’d like to hear a joke. “Oh, yes.” [chuckling] So I told her one and, really, you could have heard her all over that floor. She loved jokes.
And, oh, another time . . . I’ve been up there, as I say, numerous times, and we went up there one New Year’s Eve. Miss Margaret was there and she had some film she wanted to show. It was just Miss Margaret and Mr. and Mrs. Truman and Mike and I. And I sat on the divan with Mr. Truman and we talked about older times and sleigh riding and ice skating and the whole ball of wax. They made you very, very welcome.
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DUNAR: Yeah.
WESTWOOD: And I used to go up there and sit in the den with Mrs. Truman and visit. Another time I was up there and it was raining, and they had some beautiful lilacs and tulips in bloom. And, you know, Mr. Truman went out and picked me a bouquet of lilacs and tulips and gave them to me. Is that. . . . They were just fine people.
DUNAR: Yes. How did Mike first get the job with Mr. Truman?
WESTWOOD: He worked on . . . I can’t remember whether it was when he was constable or when he was on with the department, but he’d known Mr. Truman for many, many years. It could have been when Mr. Truman was county judge, I believe it was.
DUNAR: Oh, really?
WESTWOOD: Way back. And they just got along great.
DUNAR: Yeah.
WESTWOOD: And then when Mr. Truman came back from the White House, Mike was assigned to him by ordinance. He was with him the whole time, until they moved the Secret Service in and they ousted Mike. And Mr. Truman wasn’t a bit pleased with it. Anyway, he called the house one afternoon and wanted to know if Mike was there, and I said, “No, Mr. Truman, he isn’t.” And he said, “Well, find him and have him call me.” So I got a hold of him and he called Mr. Truman and he said, “You come back to work for me in the morning.” And he had looked up something and found some way around where he could get Mike back with him.
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DUNAR: Do you remember when that was?
WESTWOOD: Oh, gosh, I can’t remember definitely the year. Probably . . . it was in the sixties. It was right after they installed the Secret Service there.
DUNAR: Okay, okay.
WESTWOOD: It was right after that.
DUNAR: And then did the Secret Service continue and . . .
WESTWOOD: Yes, but Mike was his personal bodyguard.
DUNAR: Right, okay.
WESTWOOD: Right.
DUNAR: Do you remember anything that Mike told you about their earlier association, back when Truman was county judge? Do you remember anything at all that he told you about that?
WESTWOOD: Not really.
DUNAR: Yes, okay. They had just known each other in their county business?
WESTWOOD: Yes, right.
DUNAR: What was Mike doing then? Was he part of the Independence police force then or . . . ?
WESTWOOD: He was either the constable . . . He was a constable for a while and then he went on the Independence Police Department. He was on the department for thirty-eight years.
DUNAR: I see, yes. Is that a constable that’s a county policeman? I’m not sure what it is.
WESTWOOD: Well, it’s a city [policeman], I think.
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DUNAR: Okay, okay.
WESTWOOD: I think. Now, I’m not positive of that myself.
DUNAR: Sure.
WESTWOOD: That was before I knew Mike, see.
DUNAR: Yes. When did you meet Mike?
WESTWOOD: Well, in actuality, I’ve known him ever since I was about four years old.
DUNAR: Really?
WESTWOOD: But we met in about 1955. And then we were married November the first—oh, my gosh, I can’t even remember the year—57, I believe.
DUNAR: In 1957? So that was just about the time that you went over to the house the first time.
WESTWOOD: Right, they wanted to meet me.
DUNAR: At the time you were married, yes.
WESTWOOD: Right.
DUNAR: Now, you said that you went over many times after that. When you would go over there, was there sort of a regular way in which they would greet you? And where would they take you in the house? Can you describe that?
WESTWOOD: Well, just through the back door and maybe we sat on the back porch or in the den.
DUNAR: On the porch in the back, okay.
WESTWOOD: Yes, I loved that back porch.
DUNAR: Yes, they apparently did, too. I guess they spent most of their time there.
WESTWOOD: Yes. You know, I have a picture at home of them taken on the back porch,
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and both of their signatures, signed it to Mike and I.
DUNAR: I’ll be darned.
WESTWOOD: Mrs. Truman signed it and so did he, which I’m very, very fond of.
DUNAR: Sure, sure.
WESTWOOD: And, of course, I have lots of pictures that he signed.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: Oh, I don’t know, they just . . . When my dad died, they came out to the house. And then, of course, when Mike died Mrs. Truman came to the funeral and she sat with the family. And then when my mother died she came to the funeral. And we were just close.
DUNAR: Yeah, yeah.
WESTWOOD: And they’ve been out to our house many times. I know one day I was out working in the yard, had . . . Well, I was working in the yard, and here came Mrs. Truman up the walk with a basket of strawberries, you know. She knew I liked strawberries. And on one of Mr. Truman’s birthdays, I believe it was his seventy-sixth—I’d have to look at a picture to make sure—he got seventy-six red roses, and he sent them to us, to me.
DUNAR: Really? Yes, that’s very nice.
WESTWOOD: Which I have pictures of it.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: We used to collect bottles and he sent me out a bottle of Blatz beer that he signed. And then he sent us out a bottle that said, “Prepared especially for Harry S. Truman,” which, of course, I still have. And then he brought two
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bottles of champagne back from the White House. And I don’t know if they’re gallons or gallon and a half—they stand about that tall—and it says on the gizmo, “Prepared especially for President Harry S. Truman.” That came from the White House and he gave us those. And they were always giving us, you know, different things.
DUNAR: Right, right.
WESTWOOD: They were very, very kind people, and Mrs. Truman was one of the most gracious ladies I’ve ever known. To me, she was next to my mother. I really did like her.
DUNAR: You said that she liked jokes. What kind of jokes did she like?
WESTWOOD: Well, pretty good, nice, raw jokes. [laughter] She’d come off good, too.
DUNAR: Would she? She’d tell jokes, too?
WESTWOOD: You’re darned right she could. [laughter] Oh, she was a jewel, I just loved her, and, of course, I thought an awful lot of Mr. Truman. He was so common and so kind.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: You know, they say he cussed and reared and ranted. He never did around me, he really didn’t.
DUNAR: Yes, well, that’s what we’ve heard, that around women he never, ever swore at them.
WESTWOOD: No. Now, he cut some pretty good ones around Mike, that Mike’s told me about, which I wouldn’t repeat.
DUNAR: Right, right. [laughter]
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WESTWOOD: But, now, he never did when I was around him. He was just a great guy and he really thought a lot of my son Michael.
DUNAR: Yes, you mentioned before we started taping a little bit about your son and the president. Would you say a little bit more about that?
WESTWOOD: Yes, he gave him a set of his memoirs, the gold-bound ones, and he gave him a baseball that when he was president he threw out. I don’t know, New York or whatever, that he had signed. He has given my son several things. Of course, he wouldn’t take anything for them.
DUNAR: You showed us a picture of your son sitting on Mr. Truman’s lap. Do you remember the circumstances of that?
WESTWOOD: Yes. Well, it was the opening of the Truman Library and we were out there. Mr. Truman said, “Mike, come over here and sit on my lap.” So Michael went over there and they took his picture. And at that time, it was my understanding that no one had ever sat on his lap outside of his grandsons.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: Of course, it’s a picture I treasure.
DUNAR: Sure. You mentioned, too, a little bit about how Mr. Truman had tried to trip your son up on dates.
WESTWOOD: Oh, yes.
DUNAR: Could you say a little bit more about that?
WESTWOOD: Oh, okay. Well, my son was always a history buff, which pleased Mr. Truman very, very much. And Michael and Mike, my husband, they
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would go take Mr. Truman someplace. Michael would tag-tail along. And Mr. Truman purposely would give the wrong dates on something, and Michael, of course, didn’t argue with him. So Mr. Truman told Mike, “That boy, you tell him if I’m wrong to correct me.” So we made a trip to KCI to pick up Dave Noyes who was coming in from California. Michael and Mr. Noyes and I were in the back seat and Mr. Truman was in the front with Mike, and Mr. Truman and Dave were talking and they mentioned some historical date. And Michael pops up—he was about eleven years old—and he said, “That isn’t right.” And Mr. Truman said, “You’re right, Michael.” He said, “He’s wrong on that.” He said, “Dave, you’d better learn your history.” [laughter]
So Mr. Truman was real pleased that Michael did like history, and he majored in it in college. He majored in history and political science. And when he graduated from college, he went to work for Senator Symington. Mr. Truman knew an attorney up there in Washington, D. C., which Rose Conway made the arrangements for Michael to stay there in Georgetown to go to Georgetown University. So the Trumans have done us a lot of favors and been very, very good to us.
DUNAR: Yes. When Michael was a boy, would Mr. Truman ever tell him about how to study history? Would he talk about that sort of thing?
WESTWOOD: Yes, he did.
DUNAR: Do you remember anything of that nature that you told me?
WESTWOOD: Well, I know he said that history was the greatest thing there is and to
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always try to remember it and never forget it and study it. And as I say, my son loves history, so I think he was a big factor in helping Michael on that.
DUNAR: It sounds like it, yes. Did he tell him any books to read, that you remember?
WESTWOOD: I’m not sure of that.
DUNAR: Did he give him any books?
WESTWOOD: Oh, yes, he’s given him books. Yes, but Michael could tell you more about that.
DUNAR: Yes, we’d love to talk to him. Did you go with Mike when he drove the president around, frequently?
WESTWOOD: No, not frequently. Now, we went to . . . they invited me . . . They had a meeting in Topeka with this Denise . . . Oh, she signed the money, I can’t remember her . . . Gray, I think.
SHAVER: Oh, Andy and Georgia Gray.
WESTWOOD: Right, and I went with them out there to that. They were invited out there. Gosh, you’re talking about ten years here now.
DUNAR: Sure.
WESTWOOD: I know when we stopped on the way back, poor Mr. Truman couldn’t eat a meal for people aggravating him and tormenting him. Oh, if they’d go to the airport or something to pick up somebody, I went sometimes.
DUNAR: Yes. Do you remember any incidents?
WESTWOOD: No. The one I mainly remember is the one with Dave Noyes.
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DUNAR: Right, right.
WESTWOOD: Yes.
DUNAR: Was that one of the problems that Mike had, in terms of the president not being able to eat a meal and being bothered by people coming up to get signatures and so forth?
WESTWOOD: Well, you see, Mike knew what Mr. Truman wanted, and that’s why a lot of reporters didn’t like Mike because he wouldn’t let them bother him.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: And the same with photographers. See, Mrs. Truman didn’t like to be photographed.
DUNAR: Right, right.
WESTWOOD: And I don’t know why because I thought she was a very pretty lady. But Mike took care of Mr. Truman. That was his whole life, because he thought so much of him and, of course, it was his job. And as I say, there were some reporters didn’t like Mike. After Mr. Truman died, I don’t know how many authors and people called wanting to do books and Mike be in on it. But he said he’d never do it as long as Mrs. Truman was alive, and he didn’t. And, of course, he preceded her in death. But he had lots of offers and opportunities, but he wouldn’t do it.
DUNAR: He was probably as close as most anybody to Mr. Truman. Do you remember basically what he said about his impression of Mr. Truman?
WESTWOOD: He said he was just like a father to him.
DUNAR: Yes?
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WESTWOOD: Yes, they were very, very close. Mr. Truman had complete confidence in him and trust, and Mike would never in any way have broken that trust in him.
DUNAR: What were his responsibilities? I know that he drove him around and he sort of sheltered him from the press.
WESTWOOD: Yes, yes, he walked with him, and he was with him in case some nut came up, you know—this, now, was before the Secret Service—and he guarded him at all times. He was a personal bodyguard.
DUNAR: Would he carry a gun during that time?
WESTWOOD: Oh, yes. Yeah, and he had a walkie-talkie. See, he was on twenty-four hour call all the time, and if Mr. Truman would become ill or something, of course, he was right there. He was with Mr. Truman.
DUNAR: I’m wondering how they would arrange the schedule. Would Mr. Truman tell him, basically, here’s what I’m going to be doing today and let him go and then come back and pick him up?
WESTWOOD: Yes.
DUNAR: Or would he be on call, someone would call him on the telephone, or how would that . . .
WESTWOOD: Mike would go to the house every morning at eight o’clock. And they’d go from there, what they was going to do, whether they was going to the library or whether they were going someplace else or what they were going to do. And usually, before Mr. Truman had to quit taking his walks, they’d go for a walk the first thing. And then they had the library, and, of
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course, Mike was out there at the library with him. And then he’d take him home and he’d usually have lunch and take a nap, and then he went back to the library.
DUNAR: In the morning he’d usually just stay at the library then?
WESTWOOD: Yes, unless there was a speaking engagement. Now, that was prior to, you know, his . . .
DUNAR: Right, right. Sure, when he became . . .
WESTWOOD: . . . became so he couldn’t . . . his health.
DUNAR: Right, right. How long did he continue to take those morning walks?
WESTWOOD: Well, I think he’d taken them up until probably a couple years before he passed away—short ones, yes.
DUNAR: Yes. Well, did they go a different route every day when they took the walks, do you know?
WESTWOOD: No. They usually went down Truman Road, I believe, to Pleasant and up Maple and down Delaware and then back. I’ve got pictures of them.
DUNAR: Well, we’ve heard descriptions of how Mr. Truman would go and wave his cane at neighbors.
WESTWOOD: Yes, right. Very friendly, very, very nice person. Nothing on earth uppity about him or anything.
DUNAR: What did he talk to Mike about on those walks?
WESTWOOD: Well, now, I wasn’t with him. [chuckling]
DUNAR: Yes, yes. Did Mike ever tell you what they talked about?
WESTWOOD: Well, not really.
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DUNAR: Did anybody else join them on the walks? Or was it just the two of them?
WESTWOOD: No, very seldom. Yes, I think when the Secret Service came they were probably, possibly in the back—I’m not sure—but it was Mike that was with him.
DUNAR: I know there was some strain between the Trumans and the Secret Service, that they didn’t really want the protection at all.
WESTWOOD: Well, he didn’t want them.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: And Johnson, see, passed that bill and, of course, he had to take them. And Mr. Truman didn’t want them, he wanted Mike. And that’s why I say, when they ousted Mike, boy, he wiggled around there until he found some way to get him back in. So that’s what happened.
DUNAR: Yes. Did Mike have any problems with the Secret Service? Or did they pretty much just . . .
WESTWOOD: No, I don’t think he did. No, they got along all right, as far as I know.
DUNAR: Yes, okay. When Mike would drive him, would he drive him in his own car or in the president’s car?
WESTWOOD: The president’s car. In fact, I went with Mike when he picked out the last car that he bought for Mr. Truman. See, Mike went out and bought the cars.
DUNAR: Oh, is that right?
WESTWOOD: He picked it out and the whole ball of wax.
DUNAR: Oh, really?
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WESTWOOD: Yes, it was over to Liberty, Missouri. I wish I had bought that old one.
DUNAR: Yes, yes, that would have been . . .
SHAVER: Well, tell us a little more about that. We got the impression that the Trumans kind of picked the color and things and more or less told him what they wanted and he went out and got it. Is that how you remember it?
WESTWOOD: No! They just told Mike to go find a . . . Well, he would call them and tell them.
DUNAR: Sure, sure.
WESTWOOD: But the last one they got was over in Liberty, because I was with Mike when he went over there to get it. Now, I’m not positive about Mrs. Truman, but I know that’s the way it was with Mr. Truman.
DUNAR: Is that the one that’s still in the . . .
SHAVER: Yes, that’s the one that’s in the garage.
DUNAR: Yes, you know, the car is still in the garage over there at the house. Did you know that?
WESTWOOD: Yes? Is it?
DUNAR: Yes, yes, it’s still there. Was that true of earlier cars, too? Or did Mr. Truman get involved more in buying them?
WESTWOOD: Well, I can’t say on that. But I know the last one . . .
DUNAR: Yes, yes, because I think there are some differences of opinion about how important making the choice of a car was for Mr. Truman, too. It seems that some have said that . . .
WESTWOOD: Well, I can’t say on Mrs. Truman, but I know he’d say, “Mike, I’m going
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to get a new car. Go look,” you know.
DUNAR: Yes, yes.
WESTWOOD: Now, as to the color, whether he told him what he wanted, I don’t know.
SHAVER: How did the salesman react when you folks showed up on the lot?
WESTWOOD: Not really that impressed.
SHAVER: Did he know where the car was headed to?
WESTWOOD: Who?
SHAVER: Did the salesman know who the car was eventually going to go to?
WESTWOOD: I think so. But it didn’t seem any big deal.
DUNAR: Did Mike take care of getting the car serviced then, too?
WESTWOOD: Yeah, yeah.
DUNAR: Do you know where he did that?
WESTWOOD: Yes, it’s not here anymore. It was up here on Truman and . . . It was here where this parking lot is here now.
DUNAR: Oh, right across the . . . kitty-corner across the street.
WESTWOOD: Yes, because I’ve got a picture of him and Mr. Truman up there getting it safety-checked.
DUNAR: Oh, yeah, yeah.
WESTWOOD: So, I know.
DUNAR: Yes. Did Mr. Truman ever take you through the museum at the Truman Library?
WESTWOOD: Oh, yes, yes.
DUNAR: Do you remember anything that he pointed out being particularly proud of
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or anything?
WESTWOOD: [sigh] I think he was proud of all of it.
DUNAR: Sure, yes.
WESTWOOD: Oh, yes, I’ve been out there several times. I know I was out there one evening, I don’t even remember what I was out there for, I was with Mike. The library had closed and he went out there for something. I was along, and I remember he’d taken me in a room and showed me . . . I believe it was silverware he had received or something. Gorgeous.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: And I was out there another time and he gave me a cane, a walking cane.
DUNAR: Did he?
WESTWOOD: Yes. I don’t know, I’ll probably think of a lot of other things after I leave here, but they were fine people.
DUNAR: Do you remember meeting any dignitaries that came in to visit Mr. Truman?
WESTWOOD: Jack Benny.
DUNAR: Did you meet him when he was here for the television show?
WESTWOOD: Yes. Well, when he did the show over in Kansas City.
DUNAR: Oh, for the concert in Kansas City?
WESTWOOD: We went with the Trumans.
DUNAR: Oh, yeah, yeah.
WESTWOOD: Yes, that was another place we went with them.
DUNAR: Yes. You rode down with Jack Benny and the president?
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WESTWOOD: No, we rode with Mr. and Mrs. Truman.
DUNAR: Oh, and Jack Benny went separately?
WESTWOOD: Yes. And, let’s see, Hubert Humphrey.
DUNAR: What was he like? Was he as bubbling as his public persona seemed?
WESTWOOD: Well, I kind of think so.
DUNAR: Yes? Did he talk to you or did he just talk to Mr. Truman?
WESTWOOD: Well, he spoke. Then we had a party out at the house that Mr. and Mrs. Truman came to, and there were a lot of photographers. I can’t remember if the TV were there then or not, but Mr. and Mrs. Truman were . . . We had about 150 people, and they seemed to really enjoy it. And then we had another party, and there was forty-seven of us. We was going to have a pool party and it rained and, of course, we couldn’t, and we all ended up on the back porch. And Mr. and Mrs. Truman were there and we all sang and had a real good time. They just were great people. They made you feel at ease. You know, just like, “You’re great, I like you,” you know?
DUNAR: Yes, yes. Did they do that kind of entertaining very often? It seems that it was really very rare.
WESTWOOD: Now this was at our house, the party I’m talking about.
DUNAR: Oh, I see.
WESTWOOD: It was at our house, these two parties.
DUNAR: Yeah, yeah.
WESTWOOD: And Lorne Greene, you know, “Bonanza”?
DUNAR: Yes.
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WESTWOOD: Him and his wife were there. And, gosh, I can’t remember who else now, but it was a party and I enjoyed it very much.
DUNAR: Yeah, yeah.
WESTWOOD: Of course, when Festus and Doc from “Gunsmoke” were at the Truman Library, I got to meet them and we had dinner with them. I have a lot of memories of the Trumans, and they’re all very pleasant.
DUNAR: Yeah, sure. Did Mike ever have anybody come up and try to do harm to the president or anything? Were there ever any incidents?
WESTWOOD: Once, once.
DUNAR: What was that? What happened?
WESTWOOD: Well, some nut got loose and was going to kill him, you know. And I don’t know what happened, I really don’t. I can’t remember. See, that was back probably in ’58 or ’59.
DUNAR: Yeah, yeah.
WESTWOOD: But I know Mike was up there, went up there, and I believe he stayed up there.
DUNAR: At the Truman house?
WESTWOOD: Yes. That’s one incident. And, of course, you got calls that they were going to hurt the president. They got those kind of calls, too.
DUNAR: Yes, yes.
WESTWOOD: But Mike would have given his life for him in a minute, I know that.
DUNAR: Yes. How late was it that the president quit going regularly to the library? Do you remember?
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WESTWOOD: I would say probably, now, I could be wrong on this, probably two to two and a half years, probably two, when he . . . He would go out maybe for a little while. But there, the last year, maybe year and a half, he just wasn’t able.
DUNAR: Yes. In those last couple of years when he was ill and not going regularly to the library, would Mike take him other places then? Was he still getting out at all or did he pretty much just stay in the house all the time?
WESTWOOD: Well, he took him to the doctor.
DUNAR: Yeah?
WESTWOOD: And he’d go to the library and bring papers home for him to see and to sign.
DUNAR: Oh, I see. Would Mike work with Miss Conway and coordinate, in terms of taking care of the correspondence and so forth and getting it back and forth?
WESTWOOD: Right, right, right.
SHAVER: He took him on drives, too, didn’t he?
WESTWOOD: Oh, yes, lots of times. Yes. Even when, you know, he became ill—not bedfast, but ill—he still wanted to go for those drives. And he liked to go out on the old county and country roads, you know, when he was county judge that . . .
DUNAR: Oh, yes, ones that he had built.
WESTWOOD: Right. And, of course, that’s where Mike took him, wherever he wanted to go. But he really enjoyed that.
21
DUNAR: Would he just drive with Mike or would the president sometimes want to pick up a friend, perhaps, and take around?
WESTWOOD: No, no.
DUNAR: Just the two of them?
WESTWOOD: Yes. They were very close.
SHAVER: Do you recall if they had a favorite place they liked to go drive?
WESTWOOD: I think it was down around in the Buckner-Tarsney area, if I remember correctly. And he just liked those old county roads.
DUNAR: Sure, sure, get away from the city, yes.
WESTWOOD: Yes.
DUNAR: Would he have him drive him, do you know, down to Grandview at all, to the old farm? Would he ever go down there?
WESTWOOD: Yes, I think he has taken Mr. Truman down there when his brother lived there.
DUNAR: Oh, yes, to see who?
WESTWOOD: Truman.
DUNAR: Vivian.
WESTWOOD: Vivian, right.
DUNAR: Yes, yes. Did you ever meet him?
WESTWOOD: Yes.
DUNAR: What kind of person was he?
WESTWOOD: Well, I think I only met him once or twice. He seemed very pleasant. He didn’t have the fire that Mr. Truman had, I would say, but he seemed very
22
pleasant. And I met Mr. Truman’s sister, and, of course, I knew Miss Margaret. And I called her Miss Margaret at the time.
DUNAR: Yes. Can you tell us anything about the president’s sister? She seems to be kind of an elusive figure.
WESTWOOD: I think she, like you said, was sort of elusive. I met her. She was very nice, you know, polite and friendly, but I don’t think she went to see him that often. Now, why, I don’t know. But as far as I know, she was a real nice lady, but I don’t know why she didn’t go more.
DUNAR: Did Mike give any indication of maybe some friction between the Wallaces and the Truman side of the family?
WESTWOOD: No, no.
DUNAR: I’m wondering if maybe that’s why they didn’t come up?
WESTWOOD: No. To my knowledge, there was no friction.
DUNAR: So, when the president went down to Grandview to visit either his brother or his sister, did Mrs. Truman go along or did he just go himself?
WESTWOOD: Not usually.
DUNAR: He just went by himself?
WESTWOOD: Yes.
DUNAR: Okay, you said you knew Margaret Truman, too. Can you tell us a little bit about her and about your contacts with her?
WESTWOOD: [chuckling] Well, of course, Margaret, she’s always busy, you know.
DUNAR: Yeah.
WESTWOOD: I have seen her numerous times. She’s very nice to me. In fact, she invited
23
me to her reception there at the Truman Library here, I don’t know, three or four years ago. And she was always very nice to me, and, of course, her sons were cute little boys, I thought.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: And as I say, she was busy. I guess she’d known Mike all of her life.
DUNAR: Yes, I imagine so, yes.
WESTWOOD: But, socially, no, I can’t say. Only being around her at the Truman home . . .
DUNAR: Sure.
WESTWOOD: And as I say . . .
[End #3614; Begin #3615]
DUNAR: You mentioned before that you were at the opening of the Truman Library?
WESTWOOD: Yes. Please don’t ask me what year it was.
DUNAR: Oh, no, no, that was . . .
WESTWOOD: [chuckling] I think it was ’61, but I wouldn’t swear to it.
DUNAR: It was ’57, I think.
WESTWOOD: Was it?
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: Well, when I said my son was about eight, he was seven on the lap then.
DUNAR: Yes, yes. With the opening of the library then, the things were moved up from the Kansas City office, right? Before that, Mike was taking him down to Kansas City then?
24
WESTWOOD: Yes, right.
DUNAR: And then did Mike help move any of the things back up here, do you know?
WESTWOOD: Probably. I don’t know.
DUNAR: When he was still going down to Kansas City, would Mike stay down there with him all day?
WESTWOOD: Yes, right, right.
DUNAR: At that point, the president was still more active and more vigorous.
WESTWOOD: Oh, very much so. Oh, yes.
DUNAR: Did he travel around a lot more during the day? I know when he came up here, mostly he probably stayed in the library. But when he was down there, did he travel around a lot during the day?
WESTWOOD: I don’t know. I wasn’t with him. [chuckling]
DUNAR: Yes, yes. Did Mike go with the president on any of his trips?
WESTWOOD: Yes, he went with him when they had President Hoover’s . . . whatever they had up . . .
DUNAR: Oh, the opening of his library in Iowa.
WESTWOOD: Right, right. And Mike got into a Jackie on that. I probably shouldn’t talk about that, but, anyway, he went with Mr. Truman.
DUNAR: Go ahead. Go on and tell. What happened? [laughter]
WESTWOOD: Well, President Hoover had to go to the bathroom and it was locked. And he really had to go, you know. [laughter] And he said, “So and so, Mike, take your pistol and knock that damned glass out of there.” [laughter] So
25
Mike took his pistol and knocked the glass out. So he could get in the restroom. And that was one incident I remember Mike telling about. But, yeah, he went with Mr. Truman to that. I can’t remember where else he’s gone with him. I think they went to St. Louis once. I can’t remember. I’m sorry.
DUNAR: Yes. Did they drive up to Iowa?
WESTWOOD: No, I believe they flew.
DUNAR: They flew up there?
WESTWOOD: Yes, yes, they flew.
DUNAR: Did the president mind flying? Some people said that he didn’t mind flying.
WESTWOOD: Not to my knowledge he didn’t. I’ve never heard that.
DUNAR: Yes, yes. Just Mrs. Truman, right? She wouldn’t . . .
WESTWOOD: Well, I don’t like to fly either. [laughter] I can understand that.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: I want my feet on the ground.
DUNAR: Right, right. Did he go with him on any of the further trips, any of those?
WESTWOOD: No.
DUNAR: Most of the ones just in this area here?
WESTWOOD: Yes.
DUNAR: Mike, do you have any questions?
SHAVER: Well, I was thinking of a few, trying to. When Mr. Truman was getting up in years, did your husband ever express any comments as he was coming
26
home, you know, “I’m really worried about him. He’s getting older and he’s not as clear as he used to be”? Did he ever express those kinds of doubts or frustrations?
WESTWOOD: No. No, he was worried because he didn’t feel good and he wasn’t well, but there was never anything said about him . . . How did you put it?
SHAVER: Well, just the regular infirmities of old age.
WESTWOOD: No, no.
DUNAR: Did Mike try to discourage him from walking? There was a point, I think, when he tried to continue to walk maybe and probably shouldn’t have anymore.
WESTWOOD: You didn’t try to discourage Mr. Truman. He did what he wanted to do. [laughter]
DUNAR: He did whatever he wanted to, yes.
WESTWOOD: That’s right. No, I don’t think Mr. Truman was ever vague in any way. He was just . . . he was ill.
DUNAR: Sure. Do you remember if there was a change in his activity schedule and so forth after the accident that he had in 1964, when he fell in the bathroom? Do you remember that?
WESTWOOD: I remember that. No, he came out of that.
DUNAR: Was there any other point that marked maybe a beginning of his physical problems?
WESTWOOD: No, I don’t think so. If there was, I didn’t know it. And I’m sure Mrs. Truman would have told me.
27
DUNAR: Yes, right, right. So he kept going at least until . . . At least while he was still going to the library he was still maintaining pretty much a full schedule then?
WESTWOOD: Right. And then, as I told you before, when he couldn’t go, Mike would bring papers and things home for him. Rose Conway would have the . . .
DUNAR: Right, right, so he still kept his correspondence up and so forth.
WESTWOOD: Right, right.
DUNAR: Mike, do you have anything else?
SHAVER: [ unintelligible] Did you keep in touch with Mrs. Truman after the president passed away?
WESTWOOD: Oh, definitely.
SHAVER: Did you go visit her once in a while?
WESTWOOD: Yes, yes.
SHAVER: Where would you folks sit down and visit?
WESTWOOD: Either in the den or in the living room. And after she became ill, I went up there and she was in her bedroom. And she was very, very gracious. She had the maid serve us tea, beautiful china.
DUNAR: That’s in the downstairs bedroom?
WESTWOOD: Uh, huh. Oh, I fussed so much about her going up those steps. I was scared to death she was going to fall down on them. And, thank God, she finally moved downstairs.
SHAVER: I don’t think it was her choice either, though. I think her daughter and Mr. Lockwood and a few others got together.
28
WESTWOOD: And Mike, you know, he was after her, too.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: She didn’t want to move downstairs, but she did, bless her heart.
SHAVER: Did he keep a pretty close eye on her after he died? Was he still basically going over there?
WESTWOOD: Oh, yes. Yes, he stayed with Mrs. Truman. Well, let’s see, I think it was maybe six months . . . As I say, this has been over ten years now and I don’t want to tell a fib. But we had gone to Texas, see, and he passed away down in Texas—Mike.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: But he had been with Mrs. Truman prior to that, because she depended on him, you know.
DUNAR: Yes. I know she went out occasionally, around town and so forth. Did he take her around when she went out?
WESTWOOD: Oh, part of the time. Sometimes the Secret Service did. I know she called me one day and wanted me to go with her to pick out some bathroom curtains.
DUNAR: Oh, really?
WESTWOOD: And I was ill and I couldn’t go, and I really felt bad about it. But it was just one of those things I couldn’t help.
DUNAR: Right, right. She liked to go out to restaurants occasionally, too.
WESTWOOD: Yes, she liked to eat out at the Forest Gardens, for one. She liked Stephenson’s, and she liked to go down to Cross’s in Sugar Creek, they
29
had good food. But, you know, everyplace she’d go, people would crowd around her and, you know . . .
DUNAR: Yes, and she didn’t like that at all, I know that.
WESTWOOD: No, and she didn’t like photographs, I know that.
DUNAR: Yes, yes.
SHAVER: What would you folks visit about? At least when you and her were visiting, what were the things that you talked about over those years that she was at home?
WESTWOOD: Oh, just a little bit of everything. Not politics, nothing like that, but just like women talk, you know. We both liked mystery books.
DUNAR: Oh, did you swap books with her?
WESTWOOD: We swapped books. And she liked Agatha Christie, and we swapped books, and we talked books, and we’d talk cooking and . . .
SHAVER: Did she swap recipes with you?
WESTWOOD: No.
SHAVER: Did she ever give you any of hers?
WESTWOOD: No, but I used to make chili sauce for her all the time. She loved homemade chili sauce, and I’d take it to her. She liked it on mashed potatoes, and I’d never tried that and it is good.
DUNAR: I’ll bet it is, too.
WESTWOOD: And I made Mrs. Truman chili sauce and I made Mr. Truman applesauce—he loved applesauce—and every summer they knew they were going to get that. And we just talked, you know, just normal talk.
30
DUNAR: Sure. Do you remember any other mystery writers that she liked, in addition to Agatha Christie?
WESTWOOD: No, that was her best-liked one.
SHAVER: [unintelligible].
WESTWOOD: No, I never heard her comment.
SHAVER: Did you ever talk about . . . I guess Margaret had gotten one book finished by the time she had passed away. You had heard them talk about that one? Or have you ever read any of Margaret’s mysteries?
WESTWOOD: No, I haven’t.
SHAVER: Don’t feel embarrassed, I haven’t either. [laughter]
DUNAR: What did she think of Margaret getting into a writing career?
WESTWOOD: Well, I guess it’s all right, if that’s what she wants to do.
SHAVER: Did you ever talk about grandkids? Did she ever do like most grandparents do and tell you everything that they were doing?
WESTWOOD: She used to talk about Kiffie and William Wallace, some capers they’d cut, but I can’t remember what they were. I know they amused both of them. But, now, the other two, no, I didn’t hear too much. But Kiffie and the other one . . .
DUNAR: Yes. Did she ever talk about Margaret’s book about her father, her biography of her father?
WESTWOOD: No. No, she didn’t. But she read an awful lot.
DUNAR: Yes? Can you think of anything she read, other than the mysteries? The mysteries, I guess, were her main interests?
31
WESTWOOD: To my knowledge, it was. Well, she kept up on all the latest happenings and all that, but she liked mysteries.
SHAVER: Did she ever talk to you about sports?
WESTWOOD: Yes, she liked baseball.
SHAVER: And what were her favorite teams at the time? Or can you recall anything about it?
WESTWOOD: No. She just used to play baseball when she was young. When she was a little girl she was a tomboy, I understand, and liked to play baseball.
DUNAR: Yes.
SHAVER: Did she ever talk about things . . . You know, as folks get older, they begin to talk more and more about things in the past when they were kids. Do you ever recall any stories of her about when she was young?
WESTWOOD: Not too much on Mrs. Truman. As I say, the night we were up there on New Year’s Eve, Mr. Truman did now, about ice skating and sled riding and et cetera, et cetera, stuff like that. We had a real good visit. And Margaret wanted to show the films and we had to shut up. [laughter] We were just having a good time.
DUNAR: Do you remember anything that he said? Did he talk about where he went skating or sledding?
WESTWOOD: No, just in general.
DUNAR: Just in general?
WESTWOOD: Yes, we were just yakking.
DUNAR: Yeah, yeah. Mike, can you think of anything else?
32
SHAVER: I’d like to get some of her stories, that’s what. [laughter]
WESTWOOD: Well, now, I’m not going to go into that. [laughter]
SHAVER: Turn the machine off. We’ll let you tell us.
WESTWOOD: Oh, no. [laughter]
SHAVER: As Mrs. Truman got older and older, I know she was real interested in things that were going on around her, but she wasn’t able to get out and see them herself. Did she ever ask you what was going on outside in the real world, things on the square? I know she was a little disappointed about what they were doing to the square in her time.
WESTWOOD: Not really. We didn’t talk about worrying things.
DUNAR: Yes, did you see your job there as to sort of cheer her up a bit toward the end? Did you see it that way? Or didn’t you even think of it in those terms? It was just a visit?
WESTWOOD: No, no, it was just a visit. I loved her and I think she probably cheered me up. [chuckling] She was that type of person.
DUNAR: Yes, yes.
WESTWOOD: She was a wonderful, wonderful lady. I sure miss her, too.
DUNAR: Yes. Did you know Valerie La Mere?
WESTWOOD: Yes, that was the maid there at the last. Am I correct?
DUNAR: Right, I think she sort of ran things, I think, when Mrs. Truman couldn’t do it.
WESTWOOD: Right, she’s the one that served us tea the last time I was up there.
DUNAR: Did she?
33
WESTWOOD: Yes.
DUNAR: What was she like?
WESTWOOD: Very pleasant, very pleasant. I know I could call up there at any time to find out about Mrs. Truman, and she was always very, very pleasant, because she knew me and knew that I was concerned. She was a very pleasant person.
DUNAR: Did you ever have any trouble getting into the house because of the Secret Service?
WESTWOOD: No.
DUNAR: At the end, when they were watching the house?
WESTWOOD: No. If I went up there without Mike, I would just call them and tell them I was coming.
DUNAR: Oh, okay.
WESTWOOD: See, and they knew. So, no, I never had any problem. They knew the car, but I would call them and tell them. And no problem whatsoever. I think Mrs. Truman would have whipped them if there had been. [laughter] I really do.
DUNAR: Yes, that’s probably true.
SHAVER: Did you ever get a chance to meet Mrs. May Wallace that lived next door to the Trumans? Did you run into her on occasion?
WESTWOOD: Yes, I’ve met her several times.
SHAVER: I don’t know, This may have been a little bit before your time, but Mrs. Truman’s brothers . . . ?
34
WESTWOOD: I didn’t know them.
SHAVER: You didn’t know them?
WESTWOOD: That was before my time.
SHAVER: Their housekeeper, the one before Valerie, a lady by the name of Vietta Garr . . .
WESTWOOD: Yes, I knew her.
SHAVER: What did you think about her?
WESTWOOD: Well, she was a good cook, and she was with the Trumans a long time, as far as I know.
DUNAR: How about Polly Compton? Did you know him?
WESTWOOD: Oh, yeah, I knew Polly. Mrs. Truman and I, every Christmas he had a big Christmas display down in his basement, he made Christmas items, and he’d invite her and I down. And it was really neat, and he had just tables displayed of Christmas ornaments and things he made. And you were allowed a shoe box, and picked . . . fill a shoe box full of little Christmas ornaments, and then you got one big one. So Mrs. Truman and I would toot down there. I don’t know if he did everybody, but Mrs. Truman and I always got each a pint of homemade ice cream. Yes, I knew Polly real well.
DUNAR: Did he sell ornaments? Or was that just for friends?
WESTWOOD: Oh, no. That was a hobby, and I guess he made them for friends.
DUNAR: Did you know Mrs. Carvin, Grace Carvin, who lived next door to . . .
WESTWOOD: No.
35
DUNAR: How about Polly Compton’s daughter Dorsy Lou? Did you know her?
WESTWOOD: No. Now, Polly Compton’s grandson, Brian Warr, I believe it is, he’s in the same law firm my son is.
DUNAR: Oh, is that right?
WESTWOOD: Yes. He hasn’t been there as long as my son, but he’s in the same firm. That’s his grandson.
DUNAR: Right.
WESTWOOD: And Mrs. Compton was very, very nice. I knew her.
SHAVER: Do you recall any other folks, at least in your knowledge, who visited Mrs. Truman on a regular basis after the president died? Any folks that she would talk about or that you would meet in passing, coming or going out of the house? Folks that were real special to her that she might have mentioned to you on occasions?
WESTWOOD: Well, really, May Wallace and . . . See, you’re making me think way back.
SHAVER: That’s fine, we’ve got time.
DUNAR: Ardis Haukenberry, did you know her?
WESTWOOD: No. I think the beauty operator went there quite a bit.
DUNAR: Oh, yes.
SHAVER: Doris . . .
WESTWOOD: Doris Miller.
DUNAR: Doris Miller, that’s right.
WESTWOOD: That’s all I can think of. I’m sure there were more, but I just can’t remember.
36
DUNAR: In her later years, would she call you and ask you over? Or would you call over there and ask if it was okay if you could come over?
WESTWOOD: Vice versa.
DUNAR: Yes. Would Valeria LaMere call you and suggest that Mrs. Truman might need a visit? Would she call you to come over?
WESTWOOD: No, no. I’d call over there to see how Mrs. Truman was, and she’d say, “Well, Mrs. Truman wants to know when you’re coming over.” See?
DUNAR: Oh, yeah. What kind of things would you take over to her in her late years, the last few years?
WESTWOOD: Nothing, really. As I told you, she loved chili sauce. I can’t remember. I’m sure I took her something else. I probably made something and took . . . My mother always made salad dressing for her, and she just loved it. I know I called her one day and I said, “Mrs. Truman, are you about out of salad dressing?” “Yes, I was just going to go get some of that old stuff in the store today,” she said. [laughter] She loved my mother’s French dressing, so Mom always made that for her.
SHAVER: We probably still have your mom’s jars.
WESTWOOD: Probably do.
SHAVER: She didn’t throw anything away. We’ve probably got some of your chili sauce jars, too.
WESTWOOD: Pint jars. [chuckling]
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: And probably some of my freezer cartons from Mr. Truman’s applesauce.
37
DUNAR: What would you say are your most lasting impressions of both Mr. and Mrs. Truman?
WESTWOOD: You mean, how I felt about them?
DUNAR: How you felt about them and maybe a single incident that might stand out as something that really symbolizes what they were like.
WESTWOOD: Well, I think, of course, the first time I met them is one of the main things. And as I say, I’ll never forget that double jigger, and how gracious and how welcome they made me feel. And Mr. Truman picking me the lilacs and the tulips for flowers. They were just wonderful people. No way could I ever fault them. They were just great. And I liked Mr. Truman’s honesty and sincerity, and when he said something, you knew he meant it.
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: And I think if we had more like that in Washington, D.C. now this country would be in a heck of a better shape.
DUNAR: Yes. That’s, I think, about all I have. Mike, do you have any other questions?
SHAVER: Oh, maybe a couple of odds and ends. How hard did it affect your husband when he died?
WESTWOOD: Very hard, very hard. Because he always said that Mr. Truman was just like a father to him. He said he lost the best friend he ever had, and that’s what Mr. Truman was to him is a friend. So it affected him real bad. I know we went to the funeral and it was very sad.
DUNAR: I’m sure, yes.
38
SHAVER: Well, that’s the feeling we got, you know, picking up odds and ends here and there, that he thought a whole lot of your husband. He really did.
WESTWOOD: Yes, he did.
DUNAR: Well, I think that that’s about all that we have. We certainly appreciate you coming by and sharing this with us.
WESTWOOD: Well, I don’t know if I did any good or not. [tape is turned off] It really doesn’t . . . Well, I can’t tell you what he called him. [laughter]
SHAVER: It’s in print. We can see it for ourselves, if we want to.
WESTWOOD: Well, when he was out at the library, Nixon, why, if I remember correctly, he wanted Mr. Truman to play the “Missouri Waltz.” And I can’t remember if he did or not, but I don’t think he did.
DUNAR: Didn’t Nixon play it for him?
WESTWOOD: Or Nixon. I think that’s the way it was.
DUNAR: Yes, yes. And do you remember Truman’s reaction? Not necessarily what he said, but how did he feel about the whole Nixon visit?
WESTWOOD: Well, I think the same way he felt about him, period. [laughter] But I remember that, I was out there.
SHAVER: Did you ever get an idea what he thought of President Johnson?
WESTWOOD: Well, to my knowledge, he liked him.
SHAVER: I know Mr. Johnson came out here a whole lot of times.
WESTWOOD: Yeah.
SHAVER: I guess one of the two . . .
WESTWOOD: He liked him a lot better than he did Nixon, I’ll tell you that. [chuckling]
39
SHAVER: Yes, we figured that one out. Mrs. Truman didn’t have any love for Mr. Nixon, I don’t think.
WESTWOOD: I’ll say one thing for President Johnson. I saw him up there at the house. Now, I wasn’t in the house—I saw him though—I was outside. He had the most beautiful hair I ever saw on a man’s head. I wonder if that was real.
SHAVER: Yes, every bit of it.
WESTWOOD: Boy, it was pretty. Gosh! Yes, I’ve heard a lot of things about Nixon, but I won’t repeat them. [laughter]
DUNAR: Yes, I think the president wrote a lot of things describing Nixon in not very flattering terms. [laughter]
WESTWOOD: Yes.
SHAVER: Did your husband ever come home and tell you about his impressions of these folks coming by the house? Do you ever remember any sticking out in your head?
DUNAR: Reactions to any of these prominent people?
WESTWOOD: Yes, there was somebody he didn’t like, and I can’t remember now who it was, what they done. There was something they done. They evidently, apparently, upset Mr. Truman because Mike was hot about it. I can’t remember who it was. This has been a number of years ago. I can’t remember—I’m sorry—who it was, but Mike was upset about it.
DUNAR: The relationship with President Eisenhower was kind of cool until, I guess, the early sixties when President Eisenhower came out here. How did that relationship go after they sort of patched things up?
40
WESTWOOD: Well, I don’t know, but I was over there at the library and I made a derogatory remark about Eisenhower and Mr. Truman straightened me out. He said, “Mary Kay, you mustn’t talk like that. He’s President of the United States.” So I shut up. [laughter] So I don’t know. But I shut up on that one.
SHAVER: Well, I guess if you had insulted him by name instead of by the president, he might have let that one slip. [laughter]
DUNAR: Yes.
WESTWOOD: I don’t even remember what I said now, but it wasn’t very pleasant. He wasn’t mean to me, I don’t mean that way, but I think he kind of grinned when he said it.
DUNAR: Probably, I’m sure he did. [laughter]
WESTWOOD: But, anyway, I shut up.
SHAVER: When you were in the house visiting, do you remember anything that really impressed you about the house or anything in the house that always intrigued you, that you always thought was pretty?
WESTWOOD: Of course, I always remember the little jigger. That really made a lasting impression.
DUNAR: Sure.
WESTWOOD: I thought their dining room set was pretty. Oh, I liked that. And I don’t know, we sat mostly on the porch or in the den, is where we were. And I know Mr. Truman, he had a red leather chair in there and it had gotten real cruddy. So my brother owned Field Furniture Company, and Mike was
41
telling Noel about the chair. And so Noel said, “Well, ask the president if I can send him down a chair.” So Mrs. Truman had Mike take this chair out to the house, and she said, “Mike, you tear that up and you burn it.” And he tore it up and he burned it because she requested him to. And my brother gave Mr. Truman a very nice chair there to go in his den.
SHAVER: See, you don’t realize that, but that’s a nice little piece of the puzzle. We don’t know how many chairs have been in there, and that’s an interesting thing to know.
WESTWOOD: Yes, because it was a red upholstered, leather one. And it got burned up out there in our back yard in the oven.
DUNAR: Yes. [laughter]
SHAVER: That’s interesting.
DUNAR: We’ll have to get your son’s . . . Your son lives in Independence, right? So his address would be in the phone book?
WESTWOOD: No, he lives in Blue Springs.
DUNAR: Oh, in Blue Springs? Okay. Well, let’s get his address.
WESTWOOD: I can give you his office number and address.
DUNAR: Okay.
SHAVER: Mrs. Truman told you to take it out and burn it, huh?
WESTWOOD: Yes, and that’s what Mike did, too. Boy, you know, he always tried to do what they wanted him to do.
SHAVER: Did Mr. Truman have any problems with that new chair?
WESTWOOD: No. Oh, my gosh, no. He liked it.
42
DUNAR: What is his . . .
WESTWOOD: It’s Michael Manners, M-A-N-N-E-R-S.
DUNAR: Okay.
END OF INTERVIEW