Lola Mann and Donald Gore Oral History Interview

Lola Mann and Donald Gore

NPS

ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WITH
LOLA MANN AND DONALD GORE

JULY 2, 1991
INDEPENDENCE, MISSOURI

INTERVIEWED BY JIM WILLIAMS
ORAL HISTORY #1991-4
This transcript corresponds to audiotape DAV-AR #4320

HARRY S TRUMAN NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE
NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

EDITORIAL NOTICE

This is a transcript of a tape-recorded interview conducted for Harry S Truman National Historic Site. After a draft of this transcript was made, the park provided a copy to the interviewee and requested that he or she return the transcript with any corrections or modifications that he or she wished to be included in the final transcript. The interviewer, or in some cases another qualified staff member, also reviewed the draft and compared it to the tape recordings. The corrections and other changes suggested by the interviewee and interviewer have been incorporated into this final transcript. The transcript follows as closely as possible the recorded interview, including the usual starts, stops, and other rough spots in typical conversation. The reader should remember that this is essentially a transcript of the spoken, rather than the written, word. Stylistic matters, such as punctuation and capitalization, follow the Chicago Manual of Style, 14th edition. The transcript includes bracketed notices at the end of one tape and the beginning of the next so that, if desired, the reader can find a section of tape more easily by using this transcript. Lola Mann, Donald Gore, and Jim Williams reviewed the draft of this transcript. Their corrections were incorporated into this final transcript by Perky Beisel in summer 2000. A grant from Eastern National Park and Monument Association funded the transcription and final editing of this interview.

RESTRICTION

Researchers may read, quote from, cite, and photocopy this transcript without permission for purposes of research only. Publication is prohibited, however, without permission from the Superintendent, Harry S Truman National Historic Site.

ABSTRACT

Lola Mann and Donald Gore through their interview represent the majority of the Independence population. Lola Mann relates stories about seeing Bess W. Truman at various town locations, including the grocery store or beauty salon. Gore, who made a concrete eagle Bess Truman placed on her back porch, like many other Independence school children grew up passing Harry S Truman on his way to school. Mann and Gore, though not friends of the Trumans, provide examples of the average Independence resident’s respect for the Trumans’ attempts to be “regular” citizens after the presidency. Persons mentioned: Donald A. Gore, Robert G. Gore, Richard D. Gore, David C. Gore, Roger K. Gore, Bess W. Truman, Margaret Truman Daniel, Harry S Truman, and Doris Miller.

ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WITH LOLA MANN AND DONALD GORE

HSTR INTERVIEW #1991-4
JIM WILLIAMS: This is an oral history interview with Mrs. Lola Mann, and we’re in her
home on Winner Road in Independence, Missouri, on July 2, 1991. And
her son is here also. I’m Jim Williams from the National Park Service,
and Scott Stone is running the audio equipment. We always like to start
out with a little bit of background information about you, so if you
wouldn’t mind, could you tell me where and when you were born and
grew up?
LOLA MANN: Well, I was born not far from Independence, in Mosby, Missouri, and lived
there for twenty-eight years, I guess, and then I moved to the Independence
area.
WILLIAMS: When did you move to Independence?
DONALD GORE: Nineteen forty, forty-one.
MANN: Oh, no. Is he blacking out part of this, I hope. Well, David was nineteen
months old. No, it’s—let me think—fifty years ago, whatever that was.
WILLIAMS: Okay, it was about 1941.
MANN: That’s right. Okay, 1941 then. And I had five sons and they all attended
William Chrisman School.
WILLIAMS: Could you give me their names, for the record?
MANN: Yes, this was my second marriage. My first name was Gore. The first son
was Donald A. Gore; the second one, Robert G. Gore; the third, Richard D.
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Gore; the fourth is David C. Gore; and the fifth one is Roger K. Gore.
WILLIAMS: Which one of those sons made the concrete eagle?
MANN: Donald Gore made the eagle. And I have a son, the son that is David Gore,
has been on the Independence Fire Department for about twenty-seven
years. He’s a captain on the Independence Fire Department.
WILLIAMS: When you first moved to Independence, did you really have much
knowledge of the Trumans?
MANN: Well, I was born and bred a Democrat. [chuckling] I was a Democrat all
my life. The first I knew of Mrs. Truman and saw her was . . . early years I
saw them one time. Her and Margaret were Christmas shopping at the
Woolworth’s dime store up in Independence. That’s the first time I ever
saw Mrs. Truman. But Margaret was just a kid then, and they had came
home for Christmas from Washington and they were Christmas shopping in
the Woolworth’s store.
WILLIAMS: On the Independence Square?
MANN: On the square, uh-huh.
WILLIAMS: Did you ever see Mr. Truman before he became president?
MANN: No, I never had seen him, only in the papers when he was a judge, of
course, through the years.
WILLIAMS: What was your reaction when he became president?
MANN: Well, I of course was thrilled to death, . . . as being a Democrat, I was . . .
But under the circumstances, it was a tragedy, I mean, because of the way
he became president, you know.
WILLIAMS: Where were you living, at that time? Here, or someplace . . . another
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house?
MANN: Oh, what year was that?
GORE: Nineteen forty-four or forty-five?
WILLIAMS: He became President in ’45.
MANN: Well, I was living . . . yeah, we were in Independence. My husband worked
for Missouri Portland Cement Company for probably thirty years, and we
lived out on North River, and he worked for Missouri Portland, so I was in
Independence at that time.
WILLIAMS: So how far was that from the Truman home?
MANN: Just about four miles.
WILLIAMS: Okay, so you were further out on River Road.
MANN: Yeah, we were out about four miles on River.
GORE: The road’s closed now where we lived.
WILLIAMS: Why did it close?
GORE: The cement plant had the road, I think, closed because there was the
possibility . . . it was along the bluff, and there was the possibility it would
cave in, so they closed the road and tore all the houses down and vacated
the land that was in there.
WILLIAMS: So you were really out there by the river then.
GORE: Yes, you could see the river from our back yard.
WILLIAMS: Do you remember anything in particular about when Mr. Truman was
president? Were you ever around when he was in town, or . . . ?
MANN: Well, no, just the kids always would come home and say they saw him, and
things like that, parades that they had up around the square. But that’s as
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far as . . . that’s the only place I ever saw him.
WILLIAMS: And you said you went to school at William Chrisman. Could you talk
about walking by the home?
GORE: I went to school for three years to the junior high, which is on the east side
of their house, and then I went to William Chrisman for three years,
graduated in 1950. So whenever he was home, that would be about the
time when we’d be on our way to school, and he would be taking his
morning walk, which there would be always a bunch of cameramen behind
him, and maybe some Secret Service men. And he would wave at you or
we would always holler at him or something, you know, yell. And he
walked real fast. There was no getting along . . . He made the reporters
work for their money. I can’t remember specifically which years it was, but
it seemed like I would see him all the time, especially in the summertime.
WILLIAMS: I’ve heard that school kids liked to cut through the yard and set off the
security alarm there, before the fence was put up. Do you remember any of
that?
GORE: I can’t remember when the fence wasn’t up there. I guess I just didn’t pay
any attention. I didn’t cut through the yard. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: You weren’t one of the troublemakers then.
GORE: No, I guess not, no. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: Your mother will be glad to hear that.
MANN: Yes. [chuckling]
GORE: You could see the Secret Service men looking out the window in the house
across the street on the corner, so I always figured they were watching
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close, and we didn’t need any trouble.
WILLIAMS: And after the Trumans came back from Washington and retired, how did
you become acquainted with Bess Truman?
MANN: Well, the way I became acquainted with her, we went to the same beauty
shop, the Crown Beauty Shop up on West Maple, and I would meet her
there. It seemed like our appointments was always at the same time. That’s
when I have these letters that she had sent me, you know, that . . . So that’s
when I first knew her. We’d visit in the beauty shop.
WILLIAMS: Do you remember if that was immediately after the presidency, or was that .
. .
MANN: Well, this was in, I think, 1975. The date on one of these letters is ’75, so I
don’t know what year they came back.
WILLIAMS: They came back in ’53.
MANN: Fifty-three. Well, see, this was ’75, so she was quite aged when I knew her,
you know, met her.
WILLIAMS: That was after Mr. Truman had died. He died in ’72.
MANN: Yes. Yeah, he had passed away by that time.
WILLIAMS: Did Doris Miller do your hair also?
MANN: No, it was the girl that worked with her did my hair. Doris always did Mrs.
Truman’s.
WILLIAMS: Well, when you were in the beauty shop together, what was your
impression of Mrs. Truman? Did she seem . . .?
MANN: She was very quiet. The Secret Service man usually came and brought her
to the door, and he’d carry her purse and bring her in, and she’d sit in there.
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But she was a very quiet woman. No fashion plate. You know, I mean she
dressed very conservatively. I said I’d sit by the dryer next to her, and the
shoes that she had on, I wonder sometimes, you know. I’d think, “Gee,
she’s had those shoes quite a while,” because, you know, they weren’t the
latest styles. But she was a very gracious person.
WILLIAMS: Did you ever visit with her?
MANN: Yes, in the beauty shop is all.
WILLIAMS: What did you talk about?
MANN: Oh, just things that was going on in the country, what was going on at the
time, you know. But she was quiet. She never talked too much. A lot of
the time she’d just have her book with her, and she’d read her book.
WILLIAMS: Do you remember what she’d be reading usually?
MANN: Oh, usually mysteries, mystery books.
WILLIAMS: Did you ever talk about your family, or did she mention her family?
MANN: No. No, but after I gave her . . . would make her candy and stuff, and she
always would say, “I like your divinity better than I do the fudge, but I love
the divinity.” And so when I’d make candy, I always tried to make both
kinds for her.
WILLIAMS: Why did you decide to start bringing things to her?
MANN: Well, I think I gave . . . it was probably the first time about Christmas time,
and I took Doris . . . and Shirley was the operator who worked on me, and I
took them boxes of candy, and I just took Mrs. Truman a box of candy. So
then she wrote the letter and thanked me for it [see appendix, item 1]. One
of the letters is so amusing, I thought. It was returned to her because she
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didn’t have any postage on it. Did you see?
WILLIAMS: [chuckling] I have a copy, I think, that you’d given us.
MANN: Yeah. But it says: “This matter is being sent to you because it was found
in the U.S. mail without postage affixed. This is contrary to Section 14611
Postal Service Manual, which requires that postage on all mail must be
fully prepared at the time of mailing.” And I always was amused at that. I
thought, you know . . . [chuckling] And it says right on the corner, “Bess
Truman.”
WILLIAMS: Now, is that printed on there, or did she actually sign that? Can you tell?
MANN: No, I think it’s her signature. It’s put on with ink.
GORE: Yeah.
MANN: Uh-huh, she signed it.
WILLIAMS: So she may have dropped it in without signing it, and then they had to bring
it back and have her sign it? Is that your impression?
MANN: Well, I would say it was on there to begin with, but I don’t know. But,
really, the ink on the signature on the corners are darker than the ink on her
handwriting.
WILLIAMS: Well, when you made this candy for her, did you deliver it to their house?
MANN: No, I usually took it to the beauty shop when I would go. If I took it
otherwise, why, I’d just give it to Doris and she would send it down there.
And she told me one time, she said, “If you want to bring it to my house, all
you’ve got to do is come to the front gate and ring the buzzer and
somebody will come out and get it.” And I only went one time, and they
never answered the gate.
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WILLIAMS: Oh, really?
MANN: Nobody. I don’t know whether they were home, whether she was gone or .
. . I don’t know why they didn’t come. They may have thought, “Well,
there’s the Avon lady out there selling Avon.” Who am I to . . . But, you
know, I didn’t have her telephone number to call her, so . . . But she told
me, she said, “If you ever want to bring me any, you just buzz that buzzer,
and they’ll come out and get it.” But there was no answer.
WILLIAMS: So you missed your chance to see—
MANN: I missed my chance to go in the house at that time. But I have gone since,
and I hadn’t gone till this summer. It was the first time I ever visited in the
home.
WILLIAMS: How many times would you make candy? Was it every year?
MANN: No, I just made it just now and then, every now and then, probably
every . . . I don’t know.
WILLIAMS: But she really liked it.
MANN: Oh, yeah, she said, “I love that divinity.” [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: And there’s also a letter, I think, about some peas [see appendix, item 2]?
MANN: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: And bread?
MANN: Yeah, I made her homemade bread. I sent her some fresh peas, and she
wrote the note that . . . how good they were with the new potatoes that she
had.
WILLIAMS: But you would always just leave these at the beauty shop then?
MANN: Most of the time. Yeah, usually. If she wasn’t there, I would leave it with
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Doris, and Doris would . . . I think Doris really just called down there and
the Secret Service man would come up and get it, is the way she got it.
WILLIAMS: Now, how did the eagle story begin?
MANN: Well, I’ll let him tell you about the eagle.
WILLIAMS: Okay.
GORE: Well, I guess Margaret had written the book about her father, and we had .
. . it seemed like we had two books, and they had signed . . . Margaret and
her mother had signed these things for us. And I said, “Well, I’ll just . . .” I
made these concrete eagles as a hobby, and some other statuary, and I said,
“Well, I’ll just make her a statue and give it to her.” And so I made it and
sent it up, just like the candy, and she got it. And then one day I got this
thank-you note, which I thought was amazing, in the mail from Mrs.
Truman [see appendix, items 3 and 4]. And she said something to the effect
that she didn’t know that things like that could be so beautiful, or
something, in it. You asked her what she was going to do with it, or
something?
MANN: Well, when I gave it to her, I said, “What will you do with the eagle now?”
And she said, “Oh, I’m going to sit it on my porch. I wouldn’t put it in my
yard. Somebody will steal it.”
GORE: I doubt that. [chuckling]
MANN: You know, when I visited the home this summer, I thought, “Well, I’ll
check and see if the eagle is on the porch.” Well, it wasn’t. And that’s
when I asked, you know. I told the fellow that took us through that day. I
said that I had given the eagle . . . my son had sent the eagle to her and I
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didn’t see it. And he said, “Well, if you’ll give me your name and address,
I’ll check on it and see if I can find it.” So, not too long after that, here
come a picture through the mail. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: We found it.
MANN: With the eagle, a picture of the eagle on it, yeah.
WILLIAMS: Well, how did you deliver this eagle?
MANN: I just took it up there to the beauty shop, I think.
WILLIAMS: So you were the one who—
MANN: Yeah, I took it up, uh-huh. Of course, it’s not but about that high, you
know, and it’s concrete.
GORE: It doesn’t weigh much.
MANN: It doesn’t weigh too much. But she was real proud of it.
WILLIAMS: I think your letter was postmarked the 18th of May 1973, that Mrs. Truman
sent back to you. So this was in 1973?
GORE: Yes.
MANN: Yeah, that’s the book over there with the letter in it.
GORE: With the letter that was there.
WILLIAMS: So you didn’t speak to her personally?
GORE: No, not at all.
WILLIAMS: And she mentioned something about autographing the books.
MANN: Yes, she autographed the book, and there’s two autographs of Margaret in
there. Margaret was home at that time.
WILLIAMS: So did you bring the books along with the eagle for her to autograph? Or
how did—
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MANN: No, the book was autographed quite a while, wasn’t it, before you sent the
eagle to her?
GORE: Yeah, I made the eagle later.
MANN: He sent the eagle to thank her for signing the book and giving him the
autographs.
WILLIAMS: How long did Mrs. Truman continue to go to the beauty shop? How long
were you still—
MANN: I don’t know, I guess until she was able to . . . you know, as long as she was
able to travel up there. And I think Doris went down there quite a lot,
maybe even did her hair at the house. But she was getting kind of . . .
walked kind of slow and didn’t get along too good at that time.
WILLIAMS: When she would come into the beauty shop, did people notice really, or did
they just treat her . . .?
MANN: No, she was just like anybody else coming in. That was the thing about her,
she was just . . . just Bess Truman walking in. That was it. I’d never seen
anybody there that was even . . . I think most of us in there were
accustomed to her, you know. They were regular customers, and so it
didn’t make any difference, really.
WILLIAMS: It didn’t create a sensation.
MANN: No.
WILLIAMS: I think you said before we got on tape that you thought she seemed lonely.
Could you repeat that?
MANN: She seemed lonely. I don’t know, she was quiet and lonely. To me, at that
age, I don’t know. I said she’s more like a . . . not the motherly type, like an
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aunt type or, you know, something like that. No, I thought she was kind of
a lonely woman.
WILLIAMS: Did she ever talk about Mr. Truman?
MANN: No, I never heard her mention his name.
WILLIAMS: What was it like going to school a block away from the president’s house?
GORE: Oh, I always thought it was exciting, you know, to have the President of the
United States live just a block from the school, and we’d always walk by
and look at the house and look forward to seeing him take his walks.
WILLIAMS: Did they ever arrange any special assemblies or programs or organized
walks by the house, or anything like that?
GORE: No, I don’t think so, not that I ever remember. I don’t remember that he
was ever at the school or anything. He was in the first graduating class, and
I was in the fiftieth of that high school, and the picture of their fiftieth class,
as I remember, is in the back page of the . . . on the back cover and inside of
my yearbook. So I was always proud that I went to the same school as
President Truman.
MANN: My mother was the same age as he was, and so she was . . . I think she was
more excited when he became president than anybody I knew of. My
mother was a solid Democrat. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: Was she from Independence?
MANN: No, she was from south Missouri and lived down by Excelsior, down at
Mosby, Missouri, which is on the other side of Liberty.
GORE: The day that they dedicated the library, I live not too far from it, so I walked
over there and took a roll of film. They had more dignitaries than you
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could ever find together at one time, you know, in that kind of a situation.
And the film didn’t work in my camera. [chuckling] I was really
disappointed.
WILLIAMS: Well, that sometimes happens.
GORE: So I’ll never have that opportunity again, you know. [chuckling] But I
make sure now it’s hooked in the camera right.
WILLIAMS: Did you follow those people down to the home? There was a big reception
at the home.
GORE: No. No, it was a real hot day, and I had a real small child, and we were
more interested in going back home.
WILLIAMS: Well, is there anything else you remember about the Trumans that might
help us tell the story?
MANN: Well, right now I don’t know as I can think of anything else.
WILLIAMS: Well, I’d like to thank you for letting us drop by, and I’d also like to take
your picture if that’s okay.
MANN: Oh, my goodness. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: Thank you very much.
END OF INTERVIEW