Dorsy Lou (Compton) Warr Oral History Interview

Dorsy Lou Warr

NPS

ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WITH DORSY LOU WARR

JULY 17 & 30, 1991
INDEPENDENCE, MISSOURI

INTERVIEWED BY JIM WILLIAMS
ORAL HISTORY #1991-7
This transcript corresponds to audiotapes DAV-AR #4328-4333

HARRY S TRUMAN NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE
NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

EDITORIAL NOTICE

This is a transcript of a tape-recorded interview conducted for Harry S Truman National Historic Site. After a draft of this transcript was made, the park provided a copy to the interviewee and requested that he or she return the transcript with any corrections or modifications that he or she wished to be included in the final transcript. The interviewer, or in some cases another qualified staff member, also reviewed the draft and compared it to the tape recordings. The corrections and other changes suggested by the interviewee and interviewer have been incorporated into this final transcript. The transcript follows as closely as possible the recorded interview, including the usual starts, stops, and other rough spots in typical conversation. The reader should remember that this is essentially a transcript of the spoken, rather than the written, word. Stylistic matters, such as punctuation and capitalization, follow the Chicago Manual of Style, 14th edition. The transcript includes bracketed notices at the end of one tape and the beginning of the next so that, if desired, the reader can find a section of tape more easily by using this transcript.

Dorsy Lou Warr and Jim Williams reviewed the draft of this transcript. Their corrections were incorporated into this final transcript by Perky Beisel in summer 2000. A grant from Eastern National Park and Monument Association funded the transcription and final editing of this interview.

RESTRICTION

Researchers may read, quote from, cite, and photocopy this transcript without permission for purposes of research only. Publication is prohibited, however, without permission from the Superintendent, Harry S Truman National Historic Site.

ABSTRACT

Dorsy Lou Warr, nee Compton, [7 January 1924—25 April 1995] grew up down the street from the Trumans. Her father, a prominent Independence businessman, was a member of Harry S Truman’s poker circle and often provided the Trumans with pop and ice cream. Warr relates many stories about growing up in the same neighborhood as a president. Her recollections describe the manner in which Truman neighbors dealt with their famous resident. A contemporary of Margaret Truman, Warr has some stories of Margaret’s early visits to Independence as a young mother, then as a daughter of two elderly parents. Persons mentioned: Margaret Truman Daniel, Harry S Truman, Bess W. Truman, Louis L. “Polly” Compton, Dorthea Givan Compton, George Compton, Lyndon B. Johnson, Floyd Warr, Brian Warr, Roxie Brennan, Jane Barridge, Sue Ogden Bailey, Vietta Garr, Madge Gates Wallace, Edward Gregg, Mary Sue Luff, Jeanne Miller, Dick Miller, Sam Wilson, E. Clifton Daniel, Jr., John W. Snyder, Grace Carvin, Rose Conway, Helen Lucky, Ardis Haukenberry, George Porterfield Wallace, May Wallace, Frank Gates Wallace, Natalie Ott Wallace, Ellen Bundschu, Amy Hatten, Mary Bostian, Sue Gentry, Harriet Allen Kellogg, Mona Allen, Marie Allen Blank, Barbara Allen Gard, Betty Ogden Flora, Henry Bundschu, Charles C. Bundschu, Bill Carnes, W. L. C. Palmer, Raymond Necessary, Gladys Thomason, Mize Peters, Madeline Etzenhouser, Mary A. Luff, Maxine Choplin, Harold M. Hunt, Sue Lindsey, Elizabeth Gentry, Garvin Dyer, Elizabeth Rees, Bill Duke, George Carson, Elizabeth Bush, Virginia Bush, Alex Klein, Virginia Rucker, Jean Rucker Bunyar, Hazel Graham, Kenneth Graham, Margaret Meredith Twachtman, Jessie Page, Byron Stewart, Byron Stewart, Jr., R. Luke Choplin, Josephine Choplin, Rodney Choplin, Mary Ruth Choplin, Dororthy Choplin, Karen Tinnin, Stephen Dice, Karen Johnson, Carol Dage, Delbert Johnson, Brian Hoduski, Jeff Wade, Scott Stone, and Regina Underwood.

ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WITH DORSY LOU WARR

HSTR INTERVIEW #1991-7

JIM WILLIAMS: This is an oral history interview with Dorsy Warr. Do you
pronounce it Warr [rhymes with “oar”]?
DORSY LOU WARR: That’s right, Warr. Warr, yes.
WILLIAMS: Warr, okay, I thought so, and we’re at the Truman Library on July 17,
1991. The interviewer is Jim Williams, from the National Park Service,
and Scott Stone from the park service is running the recording equipment.
Well, I’d like to start out . . . We always start out by asking where and
when you were born and a little bit about where you grew up.
WARR: I was born January 6, 1924. I have lived all my life in Independence,
Missouri, except for brief times away at college and such, and grew up on
the east side of town, moving to the Truman neighborhood in early 1940.
WILLIAMS: To the house at 318?
WARR: To the house at 318 North Delaware, yes.
WILLIAMS: And you were about sixteen then?
WARR: Yes, I was.
WILLIAMS: Where did you live before that? You said east Independence.
WARR: The east side of town, 418 East Walnut, and we lived . . . Those became
Depression years and so we, my parents and my sister and I, lived with my
grandparents. It was a very large extended family, with two uncles and an
aunt. We were very fortunate during the Depression years because
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everyone always had jobs. [chuckling] By pooling their income, why, we
were never in dire need of any kind. Eventually, one uncle married, an aunt
moved into an apartment, and then, as I say, in early 1940 we moved into
the house on Delaware Street.
WILLIAMS: Was that fun living with all those relatives?
WARR: Yes, it was. I never had to do dishes. [laughter] There were always plenty
of people around to do other things. I was a privileged child, I guess.
[laughter] It was a shock when I had my own household.
WILLIAMS: Where did you go to school?
WARR: I went to Benton Elementary School, and then to what was the
Independence Junior High School—it’s now Palmer Junior High—and then
to William Chrisman High School, and then to Stephens College in
Columbia, Missouri.
WILLIAMS: So, even before you moved to the Truman neighborhood, you were familiar
with . . .
WARR: Oh, yes. My father and Margaret’s father were friends, both members of
the famous and infamous Harpie Club. [chuckling] So I knew Margaret a
little at school as well. Though we are almost the same age, she’s just a
couple or three months younger than I, she was a year behind me. I just
barely made it under the wire for being in the grade I was in, and so I was
very young for that grade, and so we were not in the same class but often in
the same activities.
WILLIAMS: What were your parents’ names?
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WARR: Louis L., L-O-U-I-S L. Compton, C-O-M-P-T-O-N. My mother’s name
was Dorothea—always called Dorothy, however—and her maiden name
was Givan, G-I-V-A-N.
WILLIAMS: And how did you spell her first name?
WARR: D-O-R-O-T-H-E-A.
WILLIAMS: But people always called her Dorothy?
WARR: Dorothy, yes.
WILLIAMS: So you were named after her?
WARR: I was named for both my parents. One person, when she was a child,
would call her Dorsy, and she rather liked that. My father, of course, was
Louis, and so I became Dorsy Lou. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: Now, people called your father . . . He had a nickname, didn’t he?
WARR: Polly. He was Polly.
WILLIAMS: Where did that come from?
WARR: Well, it’s kind of a fun story. When he was a small child, he went to the
square. They lived not far from the Independence Square. And by the way,
my father was born in Jackson County as well and had lived here all his
life. As a little boy, he went to the square and he came home saying,
“Mother! Mother! There was a fire on the square today,” and told her
where that fire was, and said, “and something so terrible happened.” She
said, “What was that?” He said, “Well, there was a parrot in the fire, and it
burned all its fur off.” [laughter] And they thought the fur instead of
feathers was so funny, so he became Polly and was Polly to most people all
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his life. Even when he was mentioned in newspaper articles or anything of
that kind, he was Polly.
WILLIAMS: So he was named after a parrot?
WARR: So he was named for a parrot, had a nickname for a parrot, anyway.
[chuckling]
WILLIAMS: So the Comptons had been in Jackson County for a while?
WARR: Yes, since the mid-1800s. My great-grandfather was a very early settler
and one of the pioneers in Jackson County.
WILLIAMS: What was his name?
WARR: His name was George Compton.
WILLIAMS: Was there a family business that everyone was in?
WARR: Not particularly. He did a number of things, and I really should be more
familiar and be able to tell you more about it because it has been recorded
that he was one of that early group who did things like taking wagons west
and that kind of thing. But my grandfather, my father’s father, had a stable
in Independence and had horses for hire and also had rigs. One of the
interesting things he had was what we would call a hearse, horse-drawn,
and he had two, one of which was white, and was small and carried
children’s caskets. Of course, children died so much more frequently in
those days, you know. He had a white horse and there are pictures of him
driving that with his tall hat—they always wore the top hats, you know—so
that’s what his business was. He also owned quite a bit of property around
Independence.
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WILLIAMS: What was his name?
WARR: His name was Frank Compton.
WILLIAMS: And when was your father born?
WARR: My father was born in 1897, [chuckling] February 17, 1897, not actually in
Independence, on a farm just outside of Independence in Jackson County.
WILLIAMS: And was his father’s business around the square area?
WARR: Yes, just off the square.
WILLIAMS: So when did the Givans arrive in Jackson County?
WARR: The Givans came in . . . My mother was born in 1900. She was born
February 27, 1900, and they came to Independence when she was about
three. I don’t have exact dates on that, but she was around three years old,
so . . .
WILLIAMS: So your parents met here in town?
WARR: They were neighbors, yes. They lived next door to one another.
WILLIAMS: On which . . . ?
WARR: On Walnut.
WILLIAMS: What was your father like as a person?
WARR: It would be easy to compare him with the president, I think. [chuckling] In
some ways they were very much alike, very outspoken people, very honest,
forthright, daring in their own ways with the things they attempted to do,
very . . . I guess, aggressive men in a sense, in a laid-back sense. Is that
possible? [chuckling] My dad was an entrepreneur, I think you would say,
and always a hard worker. In other ways they were quite different. My
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father was a self-educated man. He quit high school and . . . In a way,
however, Mr. Truman certainly, though he completed his high school years,
certainly was also very much a self-educated man. My father was very
family-oriented, his immediate family as well as the cousins and the
extended family. He was ambitious and did quite well.
You asked about his nickname, and I can tell you’ve done your
homework somewhat. [chuckling] He had a bottling company here in
Independence which he purchased in 1923 and changed the name from the .
. . It remained the Independence Bottling Company, but the name of the
product became Polly’s Pop. The company became known also as Polly’s,
and it was a very successful business in the days before Coca-Cola and
Pepsi and those things became so national that small companies could no
longer truly compete with them. But in the very early years when Coca-
Cola came here, he had an agreement with them that he would stay out of
Kansas City if they would stay out of eastern Jackson County. And for
many, many years, that agreement was honored and he was it in eastern
Jackson County. And when you’re the only show in town, you do very
well in the days of nickel soda pop, you know. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: Well, I’ve heard people refer to Polly’s Pop.
WARR: Yes, it was good soda pop. When they’d ask him about his recipe and what
made it so much better, he said it wasn’t any secret, it was just that in those
days the syrup companies that provided the syrup to make the soda pop
with provided recipes with it. Where many companies would water it
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down, so to speak, he used the recipe and used the best products, and
therefore he had good soda pop.
WILLIAMS: Was the bottling plant in town?
WARR: Yes, in fact, there’s a Polly’s Pop Park [see appendix, item 1]. If you go
west from the Truman home on Truman Road and turn at River Boulevard
going south, you go a long block and that space there on the corner of
Maple and where that street angles in there is Polly’s Pop Park. If you look,
there’s a sign there and it says Polly’s Pop Park. [chuckling] So that was
the area, of course, where Mr. Truman often walked.
WILLIAMS: I’ve been reading about the Busch family and how they are weaned on beer.
So was that what you were weaned on, soda pop, sort of?
WARR: Very definitely. [laughter] Well, my father also was a beer distributor. It
was not in our house, and the soda pop was.
WILLIAMS: I’ve heard that he would bring pop down to the Trumans. Do you know
about that?
WARR: Yes, he liked to provide the Trumans with anything that he had that he
thought they would enjoy, so I’m sure he did provide them with soda pop.
After he retired, he made ice cream, homemade ice cream, by gallons and
gallons. When he did anything it was always in quantity, and he would take
ice cream to them whenever he made fresh ice cream. Mrs. Truman, of
course, was addicted, I think, to the chocolate in particular, so he always
made sure there was some chocolate in the batch. Then, when he was
growing his tomatoes, he’d take them tomatoes. He was a sharing person.
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WILLIAMS: Do you think that was typical of the neighborhood, that people would
exchange things like that?
WARR: I don’t really feel I can particularly answer that. I think my dad was rather
exceptional in that respect. I don’t know of other instances where that kind
of thing happened. He did things for other neighbors besides the Trumans.
Of course, he was very proud of his association with them, but before Mr.
Truman became president as well, not just because of his fame.
WILLIAMS: How did their relationship start?
WARR: I assume with their card play, their poker playing at the Harpie Club.
WILLIAMS: Do you know about when he got involved with it?
WARR: No, I can’t tell you that. I really don’t know.
WILLIAMS: Do you think it was before Mr. Truman was president?
WARR: Oh, yes, long before. As far back as I could remember, they played cards
on Monday nights, and that was when I was a small child, and perhaps . . . I
won’t say before I was born. I think that may be unlikely, but I would say
certainly in the twenties sometime, but I can’t identify a date. You know,
they had club rooms. Have you heard this before? They had club rooms on
the square where they met and played poker, and the wives always joked
and said, “You know, our husbands tell us, ‘Don’t die over the weekend
and expect a funeral on Monday because we have to play cards Monday
night.’” [laughter] That was how devoted they were to one another and to
that poker playing evening. So it was upstairs over what was, I believe,
called the Bundschu Building, but it was the corner of Lexington and Main,
9
it would be the northeast corner, and they were on the third floor, I believe.
They weren’t fancy rooms. It was just a good place where they could go,
and they kept a refrigerator and could keep cold cuts and things of that kind
so they could have a snack during the evening. So, when Mr. Truman came
home as president one time he wanted to play poker, and they wanted to
play poker with him, of course, but they decided their club rooms weren’t
grand enough for him at that point. And I’m not sure the Secret Service
may have felt that way, that it wasn’t one of the better . . . because I think
that building wasn’t in real good condition at that time. So he was invited
to come to my parents’ home, and they had their poker game there that
particular evening. I know it happened once, if it happened more than that I
don’t recall it, but that would have been about . . . oh, let’s see, I was
thinking it was in 1946 or 1947.
WILLIAMS: Mr. Truman wasn’t around Independence much when he was president,
right?
WARR: Well, he came and went quite a bit.
WILLIAMS: He didn’t stay?
WARR: He couldn’t stay long ever, no, but he came as often as he could. And he’d
be out around the yard, he’d walk, . . . He could live much more normally
then than our presidents can live now. Of course, the Secret Service was
always in evidence, but it wasn’t to a great extent . . . There didn’t seem to
be the danger, even though there was that one attempt on his life. We
weren’t conscious of the danger involved then to the same extent as we
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have been since the sixties.
WILLIAMS: What was your mother like?
WARR: My mother was a very quiet person, and certainly if my father were familyoriented,
she was family-oriented ten times over. Very much the
homemaker, the woman behind the scenes, so to speak. It was not that she
was not a strong character, because she was, but very, very quiet, very
resourceful, extremely efficient, but everything was always easy around
her. She made a wonderful home, both for us as her family, for her mother
after her father’s death, and for her brother and sister. She was always
looked to, though she was not the eldest, as the one who held the family
together.
WILLIAMS: Was she involved in community activities?
WARR: No, not at all; just in her church.
WILLIAMS: Which church did you go to?
WARR: First Baptist.
WILLIAMS: Down on Truman?
WARR: There, right there on Truman, yes.
WILLIAMS: When you moved onto Delaware Street, I guess as a teenager, were you
really aware of living down the street from a senator? Did that seem to
matter?
WARR: Oh, to a certain extent, but no, it wasn’t a big thing at that time. And even
when he was president, though we were all impressed, he was still one of
us. And you know, they were not pretentious people, and so they were
11
accepted the way they were, I think, in this community. Much of the
notoriety—maybe that’s not the right word—that doesn’t sound as nice as it
should—came from other people, I think, outside the community more than
within it. The neighborhood stayed quiet and stayed very much the same, I
think.
WILLIAMS: Was there a conscious effort to shield the Trumans from attention as much
as you could?
WARR: I think so. I know certainly on my father’s part. I think perhaps you may
have in your records one interview—I’m not sure whether you do or not—
but he did grant two . . . I think a high school student and once to a junior
high student, and there may have been one with a college student from
William Jewell [Liberty, Missouri] or someplace, a tape, but he never
granted interviews with reporters. And if he were here today, he would
have said to me, “You be careful what you say.” [laughter]
WILLIAMS: Were there a lot of tourists in the neighborhood?
WARR: Oh, there have always been many tourists, of course.
WILLIAMS: Was that bothersome?
WARR: Not really. I think that the people who come here are a different tourist
than you find in many tourist settings. These are people who care about
their country, who cared about the president, who are interested in history,
and they’re not destructive people. Traffic occasionally was a problem, and
when in his retired years a president would come in or anyone from
Washington, there was special interest if it were announced ahead of time
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that they were coming.
I might tell you one very funny story, though, I think about my
father. I’ve told you he was outspoken and had firm opinions, and quite
often when someone of note was coming in, one of the presidents or
something, I would go over to watch from their lawn. We lived nearby.
But when Mr. Johnson was coming in, President Johnson was coming in
one day, I was busy and I knew I couldn’t get there, and I went over just a
little bit later and Daddy was, as usual, out working in his yard. He loved
his flowers and his grass and all those things. And I said, “Daddy, did you
see the president when he came in?” My father was rather disenchanted
with President Johnson at that point, as many people were, I guess, even
though he was a staunch Democrat, my father. He said to me, when I said,
“Did you see the president?” He said, “No, I didn’t look up.” [laughter] I
thought that must certainly have been the ultimate insult, you know. But he
wouldn’t even look.
WILLIAMS: That’s willpower, too.
WARR: That’s willpower, it really is, with all the sirens and the . . . you know,
because we were accustomed to those sirens and the motorcades and all
those things.
WILLIAMS: I’ve heard stories about people stopping and asking for directions, and at
least children, young people thought it was kind of fun to misdirect tourists.
WARR: Oh, really? Oh, I hadn’t heard that. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: So you never did that?
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WARR: That wouldn’t have been permitted in our family. [laughter] No, not at all.
It is rather interesting, Mr. Truman and my father were both relatively short
men and stockily built—not in Mr. Truman’s later days, nor in my father’s
for that matter—but he was mistaken often in the neighborhood by tourists,
and he had some interesting experiences that way.
WILLIAMS: What would they do?
WARR: They might speak to him as though he were the president, you know, and
he would not let that go on, of course, but it was interesting that they often
seemed to think . . . And the house itself, if they came from the north,
because that house is a rather imposing structure, they would first think,
you know, if they weren’t really familiar and hadn’t seen pictures, they
would first mistake that for the Truman home, and so questions were often
asked of him in that respect.
WILLIAMS: And since he was out in the yard a lot, he probably . . .
WARR: Yes, he had many questions, many, many questions. He enjoyed visiting
with the tourists. He’d give them interviews he wouldn’t have given to
you. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: Well, how long did you live in that house?
WARR: Not too long, actually, from very early 1940 until summer of 1943.
WILLIAMS: Why did you move out?
WARR: I was married. [laughter] It was time to move.
WILLIAMS: Was that then after college?
WARR: Yes, immediately after college I was married.
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WILLIAMS: And where did you meet your husband?
WARR: In school, in the first grade. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: Oh, so he’s an Independence boy?
WARR: He’s an Independence boy also, yes.
WILLIAMS: It wasn’t in college or anything?
WARR: No. No, in school. Independence from the word go.
WILLIAMS: And what’s his name?
WARR: His name is Floyd Warr, and his family came here when he was a small
child. He was born in Des Moines, Iowa, but . . .
WILLIAMS: Have you lived on Waldo then, ever since your marriage?
WARR: Not quite. Those were war years and housing was very difficult at that
time, and we rented a house for the summer, a woman who was going to be
in California the summer, and we rented her house. Then my parents had a
place at Lake Lotawana that summer, and still had it for a while when we
needed to move, so we moved out to Lotawana and were there for a little
bit, and then rented a home for a month, and then about that time the house
came on the market there on Waldo Street and my father gave it to us as a
wedding gift.
WILLIAMS: Oh. Who lived in that house before you, do you know?
WARR: Well, I don’t think I can tell you the people’s name, but it had been a rental
house. It had been built in 1939, so it was still quite a new home, but it was
built by Mr. Carnes—I’m trying to think of his first name—and his wife
was Mrs. Wallace’s sister. Are you with me? [chuckling]
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WILLIAMS: Yes, so that’s how the Carnes come into the picture?
WARR: That’s how the Carnes come into the picture, yes, and the house was
purchased from Mr. Carnes. He no longer wanted to rent it, felt the market
was good and sold it at what nowadays is considered a real steal, and I think
he always wished he’d held onto it a little longer. [chuckling] But they
lived in the neighborhood, too. They lived just around the corner there on
Union Street from us.
WILLIAMS: Has it been a nice neighborhood to live in?
WARR: Yes, it’s been a very nice neighborhood, and the nice part about it is that it’s
a neighborhood in the old sense of mixed ages and a mixture of
backgrounds. It isn’t like moving into a suburb where there are all young
couples with little children, or they’re all upper income or . . . You know,
everybody is more or less the same.
WILLIAMS: I’m amazed at how different the houses are.
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Some are big, and some are small.
WARR: Yes, and the people are the same way. There’s just some of everything, and
I think that’s a healthy way to live and to bring up your children. And for a
little while we were all getting older, and then all of a sudden there were
children again as younger people moved back in. And it’s interesting how
many of our children moved back to that area. Our daughter, for instance,
lives across the street from us. The Buckley family, they had eight
children, I believe, up the street from us, and now some of the Buckley
16
family live again in the neighborhood. At various times, three different
children of the Buckley eight have lived in the neighborhood. The Fender
family, for many years had children living in the neighborhood, both their
sons. Now their daughter is living in the neighborhood. The Ott family—
you’ve probably interviewed some of them—again, the children, the one
daughter remaining in Independence moved back into the neighborhood.
It’s that kind of a neighborhood, I think, very family-oriented.
WILLIAMS: How many children do you have?
WARR: We have two living. We had triplets. Our first children were triplets, and
then we have a son who is an attorney in Independence, Brian Warr, and
our daughter is Roxie Brennan, who lives across the street from us. She has
two little girls, they have two little girls, and our son has two step-children.
WILLIAMS: I used to live across from my grandparents, so . . .
WARR: You know what it’s like then: in and out. It’s almost like living there, isn’t
it? [chuckling] I started to tell you something that I thought you’d be
particularly interested in, and now it’s escaped me. But our children, in
getting to the Truman part of the story perhaps, when Mrs. Truman would
know that Margaret was coming with the first grandbaby—well maybe not
with the first one but probably with the second one—when there were the
two children, she called, and she always called me . . . My nickname, by
the way, is Tot, T-O-T, and she always called me Tot—Margaret calls me
Tot—and she’d call and . . . I’d say, “Hello?” And she’d say, “Tot?”
[chuckling] In that voice of hers, and I’d know immediately who it was,
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and I’d say, “Yes, Mrs. Truman?” And she’d say, “Could you spare the
baby buggy?” [chuckling] And I’d say, “Yes, we could. Is Margaret
coming?” “Yes, and we need another bed.” So our children would . . . I’d
clean them all up, and I’d say, “I’ll send the children around with it.” So
they’d wheel it around. Usually I’d take an extra hour to also scrub the
buggy a bit, and they’d wheel the baby buggy around. It was quite a big
one, and the newest baby would always sleep in the baby buggy. Then
when she was ready to send it back I’d say call, and the children would go
around and get it and bring it back. I always hoped Mr. Truman would
bring it home on one of his walks, but he never did. [laughter] I’m sure she
couldn’t persuade him to do that. But each time she would borrow that
baby carriage and the youngest baby would sleep in it [see appendix, item
2].
But when the children would take it around or pick it up, she always
invited them in and she would pass the Stovers candy. They were eternally
with their box of Stovers chocolates, because Margaret and Mrs. Truman
both, you know, love their chocolates. So they’d offer them candy. And
this funny story, our son is the oldest and our daughter younger, and he
picked his piece of candy, and she said the minute he got it in his mouth she
knew it was coconut, and he can’t even swallow coconut! [chuckling] And
he sat there the rest of the time not saying anything, with his chocolate in
his mouth, till he could get outside and spit it out. [laughter] And she loves
to tell that on him. It was one of life’s more embarrassing moments. And
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now I remember what I was going to tell you. When the triplets were born,
they were . . .
WILLIAMS: We need to change tapes.
WARR: Need to change tapes? Alright, that’s a good spot.
[End #4328; Begin #4329]
WILLIAMS: Okay, you were talking about your triplets.
WARR: Yes, I was talking about when our triplets were born in 1945. They were
two months premature and very, very small little girls, and very
unexpected. We did not know that we were expecting triplets, so there was
much excitement in Independence. At that point, there had never been
triplets in Independence, according to any records, so the word spread, and
someone called the president, I guess. So he sent a wire to my dad,
something along these lines, “Three of a kind beat pairs any day.
Congratulations.” I have the telegram someplace around. So that was kind
of an exciting thing to have happen. However, the triplets did not survive,
and we lost them within twenty-four hours. But anyway, that was kind of
one of the . . .
WILLIAMS: Kind of a poker buddy telegram.
WARR: A poker buddy telegram, exactly. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: How well did you know Margaret?
WARR: Well, I think pretty well. We were acquainted with one another, as I told
you, in high school and did some things together. Of course, in high school
she was only there one semester and then would be in Washington the
19
spring semester, so that interrupted her times. But particularly during the
short period that I lived there on Delaware, we did more things together.
She misremembers in some of her memoirs, by the way, and lists me as a
member of that little club, I think, and I was not really because I didn’t live
there then. But that was a natural mistake because we did become closer
friends and did things together some at that time.
I remember in particular one instance when she called and asked if
I’d like to spend the day and could we build a badminton court on the north
lawn. We talked to her mother. They’d already bought the equipment, I
think, and we talked to Mrs. Truman about it. And I think because
Margaret and I were both more sedentary than active, and Mrs. Truman had
been very active as a young woman and we didn’t play tennis and we didn’t
play softball and all those things, and so I think she was more than willing
for us to tear up the yard in order to see us do something a little bit more
active, so she said yes. And it was a very hot day, not unlike the last few
days have been here in Independence, and we did quite a little tearing up of
that north lawn, sort of toward the east, not toward the front of the house—I
imagine we were given those parameters, probably. [chuckling] I think
probably the park service would not appreciate that I think we tore out a
bush or two, or maybe they would, you know. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: There’s plenty of them there.
WARR: There are plenty of them, anyway. And we did manage to finally clear a
big enough space and to have our net up, and we may even have played a
20
game or two. I don’t remember that we ever used it again more than . . .
Perhaps we did and I just don’t remember. I seem to remember that Mrs.
Truman came bringing us lemonade and that we cooled off on the porch for
a little bit. That was one thing that was kind of fun that we did.
WILLIAMS: So that area of the yard was overgrown or just kind of bushy?
WARR: Well, there were shrubs here and there, no particular plan, you know, things
like lilacs and spirea, old-fashioned shrubs.
WILLIAMS: So you just had to clear them away?
WARR: We just had to make a little space, and we did. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: That was back there by the rose arbor and the porch?
WARR: Probably back in that general area . . . Well, now, on the north side . . .
WILLIAMS: More toward the driveway?
WARR: Yes, toward the driveway and toward where the fence now is.
WILLIAMS: And the fence wasn’t up then?
WARR: Oh, no, the fence was not put up until he was president, for his protection. I
don’t think they were really very happy about having to have the fence, but
realized the necessity of it.
WILLIAMS: What other kind of activities would you engage in with Margaret?
WARR: Oh, you know, we did things as groups, and others in that little club . . .
What did they call it? I can’t even think of it?
WILLIAMS: The Henhouse Hicks?
WARR: Yes, Henhouse Hicks, that’s what it was. [chuckling] And those girls were
my friends as well, Sue Ogden Bailey, who just has been here visiting me in
21
late May, the Allen girls, Jane Barridge, and so we did things together, like
go to a movie or go for a Coke at Brown Drugstore or for a soda, that kind
of thing. I was privileged to have the use of my parents’ cars often, and so
we’d drive and talk like girls talk, girl talk.
WILLIAMS: About boys?
WARR: About boys. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: And other things?
WARR: And other things now and then.
WILLIAMS: Did you ever have things like slumber parties or sleep-overs?
WARR: A little, but that wasn’t as frequent then as it is now with people.
WILLIAMS: How much were you in the Truman home at that time?
WARR: In and out occasionally, but not on a daily basis by any means. Margaret
would have a luncheon, or I would have a luncheon. That is something that
we did more of in those days. Perhaps a birthday luncheon or . . . Our
mothers were all nice about doing those things, and they were done nicely.
At that pretty dining room table in the Truman home, with all the nice china
and crystal and silver and flowers on the table, and it was always nicely
done. I have some of Mrs. Truman’s recipes in my recipe file of things,
something that she prepared for one of those that we particularly liked.
Though, of course, Vietta [Garr] did much of the cooking, but Mrs. Truman
was in the kitchen, too.
That’s one thing that worries me and upsets me—you’ve probably
been told this before that I complain regularly about . . . [laughter] Maybe
22
you want to cut off the tape. The kitchen. I understand the kitchen and the
green. That was the color that you painted kitchens then. I had that color
kitchen, too, at one time. Kitchens and bathrooms were painted that strange
shade of green, and not everyone understands nor realizes that. But Mrs.
Truman’s kitchen was clean, and that disreputable, terrible dishcloth and
dish towel are not typical of Mrs. Truman. True, they were in the house,
but let’s remember that for a number of years she hadn’t been able to be in
that kitchen herself. She would not have been aware of the way they were
not taking care of her linens and those things, and I think it gives a very
unfair impression of Mrs. Truman as a homemaker, and it really distresses
me terribly. Every time I take guests through there, I make apologies for
the house, because that’s not the way the house was kept.
WILLIAMS: Are there other things that are different?
WARR: That’s the main thing that bothers me. The other thing is that it was kept in
better repair, as far as the furniture was concerned. During her later years
she simply was not able to see to having things reupholstered or refinished
and properly kept up, as she had done, really had done, and that is not truly
the way they lived. It’s the way things became in the last, shall I say, ten
years of her life? You know more accurately than I, probably. I can’t
identify the date when she had to have full-time help and was no longer
able to really oversee her home as she would have done.
WILLIAMS: So she was very interested in housekeeping?
WARR: Oh, I don’t mean that—she was not what we would once have called a
23
persnickety housekeeper—I don’t mean that. They lived comfortably, and
she didn’t make a fuss about things, but things were clean and things looked
nice and were kept in good repair during the days when she was able to see
to it that they were. And then when you have hired people in your home
overseeing things, things get into disrepair, and furniture that had once
looked nice begins to look more worn than you would have let it get. So, if
you can ever have any influence to at least change the tea towel and the
dishcloth . . . [laughter]
WILLIAMS: Well, I don’t think we’re on the right rung of the ladder.
WARR: We’re not on the right track? [laughter]
WILLIAMS: Scott and I aren’t.
WARR: It really is, it’s unfair to her reputation as a homemaker.
WILLIAMS: I understand what you mean. I think the decision was made to freeze the
appearance.
WARR: To leave it as it was, but that is not as it truly was.
WILLIAMS: Was Mrs. Truman outside in the yard much?
WARR: I don’t recall her being outside much, no.
WILLIAMS: Because we heard that she liked flowers very much.
WARR: She did like her flowers, and she may have been back there around the
roses and things, but I really . . . I can’t verify that at all. She loved her
flowers, I know that.
WILLIAMS: You don’t have vivid memories of seeing her out in the yard toiling away?
WARR: No, I don’t. I don’t have any memories of seeing her out in the yard.
24
[chuckling] I know Mr. Truman occasionally had from time to time been
seen out with the push lawn mower, you know, the old rotary lawn mower.
It was not a happy task for him, and sometimes he did it when he was home
in the summer. I remember Daddy coming in and saying that he’d seen him
out and had gone up and visited with him out in the yard or something of
that kind, and certainly while he was still senator. I can’t say that he did it
after he was president. More than likely not. I can’t identify the time well
enough in my mind, but I do know that he was out doing something in the
yard when he was vice president during that brief period. And again it
seems to me that my dad may have been walking on his way to the Baptist
church there and stopped to talk with him, but I’m not sure of that. The rest
of it I am certain about. He told Mr. Truman, “You seem preoccupied and
concerned.” And he said, “I am. I am so apprehensive about what I think I
see is about to happen.” And I’m sure that he was referring to the state of
President Roosevelt’s health. My father was not the kind to inquire further,
and he had said what he needed to say and shared what he needed to share
perhaps. That’s sort of a sad . . . [voice breaking]
WILLIAMS: Among the neighborhood kids, how were the Trumans known as parents?
WARR: Just like any other parents, you know? Perhaps having to be more
protective of their daughter than any of us needed to be, but outside of that,
very normal parents, restrictive of their daughter. All of us were restricted
in those days, you know. We didn’t have the freedom to tear around that
children have today, teenagers. And with the fright that they had over
25
Margaret when she was still in elementary school, from then on they were
more protective, and we were more free. But she was certainly permitted to
go and do things with us, to come to our homes and to play cards or to visit,
to stay over.
WILLIAMS: Did you know Madge Wallace?
WARR: Grandmother?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
WARR: Only that when we went to visit the first thing you always did was to go in
to see Grandmother and pay your respects to her.
WILLIAMS: Where would she be?
WARR: As I recall, either in the living room, on the south side of the house there, or
back in her own room, often back in her own room.
WILLIAMS: How would you describe her?
WARR: You know, my contact with her was only that, to go in and to say . . . A
dignified, tiny—elderly by that time—person, and I had no relationship
with her whatsoever. She didn’t visit particularly with us. It was just a
matter of saying good morning or good afternoon and paying our respects
to her, as we would have done with anyone else. But it was expected.
WILLIAMS: So was she around at these luncheons or anything?
WARR: No, those would always just be the girls.
WILLIAMS: Yes, with Mrs. Truman sort of arranging the food.
WARR: Around, right. They did give for me a lovely luncheon, but not at home,
just before I was married, for my wedding party and a few others. That was
26
at the Women’s City Club in Kansas City when it was in downtown Kansas
City. A very nice . . . They had a little balcony which was private, a
private room for private parties, and it was a very nice luncheon with
flowers and favors and that kind of thing.
WILLIAMS: Mrs. Truman was a member of that club?
WARR: Of the Women’s City Club. Yes, I’m sure she was.
WILLIAMS: I think I read something recently about that.
WARR: Yes, and I think probably she entertained her bridge club and did that kind
of thing there from time to time. They were invited to our wedding.
Margaret sang at our wedding and was a member of the wedding party as
such and Mrs. Truman did come. I am assuming that Mr. Truman was not
in Independence at that time.
WILLIAMS: What did Margaret sing?
WARR: She sang “Ave Maria” and [Edward] Gregg’s “I Love Thee.”
WILLIAMS: Did you know then that she was going to be a star someday?
WARR: An opera singer? [chuckling] No, I had no idea she would be giving
concerts and doing the kind of thing that she did later. But I knew she had a
very lovely voice and I certainly felt very privileged to have her consent to
do it. I went to the house, and we sat down at the piano. I sat on the bench
alongside of her, and she went through her music, and we decided on those
two songs. I think probably it was quite a departure for the Baptists to have
“Ave Maria” sung at a wedding, [chuckling] but it’s what I liked and what
she liked, and it was lovely wedding music.
27
WILLIAMS: So you were married at the Baptist church?
WARR: At the Baptist church, yes.
WILLIAMS: Did Margaret do this quite a bit, or just for you?
WARR: If she ever sang at anyone else’s wedding, I don’t happen to know it, but
that doesn’t mean she didn’t.
WILLIAMS: She wasn’t on the circuit?
WARR: No, she wasn’t on the circuit at that time. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: With all your friends?
WARR: No.
WILLIAMS: Did Margaret have a lot of beaux? Did you call them that back then still?
WARR: We may have. [chuckling] No, I wouldn’t say a lot. She dated, but again
probably protected a little more, and also because she was gone much of the
time and wasn’t in the regular flow of things, probably made some
difference also.
WILLIAMS: Would your group tend to mingle with another group of boys, just kind of
that way?
WARR: Our group did, and you must remember again that Margaret was a year
behind me, and so her group of the boys that she would be with was a little
bit different from the ones that I would have been with.
WILLIAMS: So you would maintain . . .
WARR: You often maintained your own class, though there was . . . We did cross
over some, but many of the parties and things would be of your particular
class.
28
WILLIAMS: There were some clubs at William Chrisman, is that right?
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Were you in any of those?
WARR: Yes, I was an “As You Like It.”
WILLIAMS: That’s the best one, right?
WARR: That’s the best one, of course. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: That’s what Mary Sue Luff said.
WARR: And then the boys also had a club at that time, though very shortly after that
I think it was determined they really weren’t studying Shakespeare, and so
the powers . . . [laughter]
WILLIAMS: Were you?
WARR: Not really, no, not that I recall at all. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: I’ve heard that, too.
WARR: We were more social oriented than we were literary.
WILLIAMS: Were you ever invited to the White House or Washington?
WARR: Yes. Margaret had made a point of telling us please come, and so in 19 . . .
let me get my dates straight, 1947, I believe, the spring of ’47, another
couple, Jeanne and Dick Miller, and Floyd and I decided to vacation
together and to go to Washington. And so I wrote . . . We didn’t use the
telephones then the way we do now, you know. I wrote Margaret and said
that we were planning to come to Washington and that we’d like to see her
or take her to lunch or dinner or something and told her where we’d be
staying. This was planned sort of on the spur of the moment, that we could
29
have vacations at the same time, and so when we arrived in Washington we
stayed at a place that I think was called the Ward Parkman, something of
that kind. Anyway, it was connected with the . . . They had a residential
area as well as the hotel area, and it was where the Trumans lived when he
was a senator, but we were, of course, in the hotel area of it. So we went out
sightseeing and came back and there was a message on the bed saying to
me, “Call the White House. Mrs. Truman would like to speak with you.” I
will interject here that from that moment on we were treated very well in
the hotel. [laughter] So I called, and “Tot?” she said, as she always did,
“Margaret’s in New York, but the president would like to see you.” And
that’s the way she said it. And I said, “Oh, that’s not necessary.” “Yes, it
is,” she said. “So we want you to come . . .,” and she set a time, it seems to
me it was like 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon, and told us which gate to use
and said, “Now, I must say this to you. The president’s on a very tight
schedule. You need to be prompt.”
Well, we left the hotel very early, knowing Washington traffic by
that time and that it wasn’t always easy to get where you wanted to go and
get on the one-way streets and . . . [chuckling] So we arrived very, very
early at the White House, and we didn’t want to go in a half an hour early,
so we circled that block, [chuckling] around and around and around, and by
the time . . . Oh, we had on our hats and our white gloves, and we were
really ready for this. By the time we pulled in, the gate man was really
laughing because he realized at that point what we had been doing was
30
delaying our arrival. And of course he had our name and permitted
entrance, and we were still a little early. We were taken into the Cabinet
Room to wait, which was interesting, I thought, with all the pictures on the
wall of former presidents, as I recall, and we waited there until we were
taken into the Oval Office. He greeted each of us warmly. I think he
genuinely liked to see people from home, and, of course, visited with me
about my father and said something like . . . We thanked him for having us
there, and he said, “I’m glad to have you here.” He said, “It seems to be
important to people to get to see the president,” and something of this
nature, “I’m not sure why, but I do understand.” [chuckling] And I know
my husband asked him about . . . My husband was working for the airlines,
and he asked him about the planes that are on the mantel, as they are in here
at the library. One of them, of course, was his own, the presidential plane,
the other one Floyd asked about and identified it—I think maybe it was a
Connie or something—and he said, “Well, what is the significance of that
one?” And Mr. Truman looked at it as though he had never noticed it
before and said, “Oh, I guess just to balance the mantel.” [laughter]
So then he said, “Mrs. Truman wishes to see you, so I’m going to
call someone to take you to see her upstairs.” So he did, and someone
escorted us out then, as I recall, through the other door onto the Rose
Garden and along by that side of the White House and into another entrance
and then up to the third floor, where we sat down and visited with Mrs.
Truman. Then she took us on a tour of their living quarters, showing us
31
Margaret’s room and the lack of closet space, which was a problem for all
of them, and then she gave us the tour of the public rooms of the White
House as well, rather than giving that to someone else to do, which was her
own gracious way of doing things. Then we sat down in, I believe, the
Green Room to visit a little more. And someplace along at that time she
said, “Have you been enjoying Washington?” And we said yes. My
husband said, “Yes, all but the No Parking signs. It’s so hard to find a place
to park to go to the places we want to see.” And she laughed and she said,
“Well, I can solve that for you. You will take my car and my driver, and he
can park wherever he pleases.” [laughter] Well, we thanked her and did
not take advantage of that. And we’ve kicked ourselves ever since. Why
didn’t we do it? She meant it, you know? But we were not raised to take
advantage, and we didn’t.
WILLIAMS: She must have been very kind.
WARR: She was a wonderful lady, and she had a wonderful sense of humor, which
I think most people don’t realize because in her pictures she’s always very
solemn. And she really was a funny lady. She was funny. Our son was
married in my parents’ home, and we had a reception, a champagne
reception for him there, and of course the neighbors were invited, the
Trumans included. Mr. Truman was ill and couldn’t come . . . Are we
getting near the end again? [chuckling] And couldn’t come at that point.
Mrs. Truman did come. Margaret was away, of course, and so we had
friends passing through the group and pouring champagne for the guests,
32
and our good friend Dr. Sam Wilson was one of those. He said, “Mrs.
Truman, may I pour you some champagne?” And she said, “No, thanks.
I’m walking.” [laughter] And we thought that was a really special one.
Another thing I thought which was very funny: she and Mother were not
close friends; they were just neighborly, but they did visit on the phone
occasionally. Mostly it was when Mrs. Truman would call Mother or
Daddy to thank for the ice cream or thank for the tomatoes or whatever and
then they would visit. One day she called Mother, maybe just to say how
are you, it was wintertime, and she said, “We’re going to be going to
Florida . . .” And I think this must have been their last trip to Florida, and
Mother knowing that she didn’t like to fly and didn’t really like . . . She
liked to go someplace but she didn’t like the getting there, I think, said to
her, “Oh, are you dreading the trip?” And she said, “No, since Harry hasn’t
been feeling well and we’ve been so shut in this winter, I’d go to hell if
somebody asked me.” [laughter] You know, that’s more like something
he’d say than like something she’d say. It seems almost out of character,
but she really did have a wonderful sense of humor. She just was a very
private person. And she wouldn’t think that wash cloth and that dishcloth
and dish towel were funny, even with her sense of humor. [laughter] Or
maybe she would. Maybe she would. Who knows?
WILLIAMS: Would you like to take a little break or get a drink of water?
WARR: I’d love a drink of water, and you would probably like a break.
[End #4329; Begin #4330]
33
WILLIAMS: Are there other stories about Mrs. Truman’s sense of humor that you
remember?
WARR: I don’t think so. Those are the ones that just impressed me the most.
WILLIAMS: You described Mr. Truman some earlier, in relation to your father. What
are some of the instances you remember, contact with him through the
years?
WARR: Well, our contact was not frequent. I’d often see him walking by, of
course, on his morning walks, because we were on his path from time to
time. Perhaps one of the things I remember best, however, was during the
1948 campaign. I think it was Mrs. Truman who called me and asked if I
would care to go with them on one of their campaign trips, not a long trip,
just over to Liberty, that she thought it would be nice for Margaret to have
somebody with her for a change. So Mr. Truman was going to be in town,
and he was to make a speech on the steps of the courthouse in Liberty, and I
can’t remember exactly how we joined up, but it seems to me that we went
into the city, that he may have been at the Muehlebach, and that we left
from there in a motorcade—not a big motorcade, a little motorcade—with
the sirens blaring and all of that, and went to the courthouse in Liberty and
climbed the steps. There was, I think, sort of a platform built perhaps there.
Some of this is very vague. It’s been a long time. [chuckling] We
climbed the steps, and Margaret and I were seated on the platform with Mr.
and, I believe, Mrs. Truman as well. I remember it was a nice, bright day,
and I’m ashamed to say I don’t remember a word he said. [laughter] Isn’t
34
that terrible? If I’d only known you were going to be interviewing me I
would have taken notes, but one doesn’t think about those things at that
time. But that was a fun thing to get to do and a very thoughtful thing for
them for Margaret, and for me for that matter.
It could have been that it was the ’44 campaign, and I do sort of
question that in my mind, and I can’t hook it up to be absolutely certain
whether it was when he was running for vice president or whether it was for
the presidency. The reason I keep wondering, it seems to me as though it
were the ’48, and yet the kind of protection he had, that kind of thing,
makes me think it must have been ’44. So let’s say it was ’44.
WILLIAMS: Okay. I suppose you were at Margaret’s wedding?
WARR: Not at the wedding. That was very small. I was at the reception.
WILLIAMS: At the house?
WARR: At the house, yes.
WILLIAMS: What was that like?
WARR: It was very crowded, a lot of people there. Everyone in their finery and a
reception line and . . .
WILLIAMS: Was it indoors?
WARR: It was indoors, yes. The line stretched outdoors for some little time, and we
did stand in line quite a while. As I recall, my parents and Floyd and I went
together, and upstairs all the gifts were laid out for you to go upstairs and
see the gifts. That’s the way we used to do in Independence, and
throughout the bedrooms and extra tables and things of that kind, why,
35
many, many gifts, of course, with the prominence of the family. It was
quite a display.
WILLIAMS: Was there food?
WARR: There was food, but it was just typical wedding reception food, as I recall.
WILLIAMS: So you were pretty much allowed all over the house?
WARR: Yes, one of the few times, actually, that I was upstairs. I do remember
being up there a time or two, but normally we were downstairs.
WILLIAMS: Had you met Mr. Daniel before that?
WARR: No, not before. A nice man.
WILLIAMS: Were there any, what I would call, dignitaries there at the wedding?
WARR: I have an idea that maybe . . . Oh, dear, the name is going to escape me at
this moment. Oh, Mr. [John] Snyder. I have a feeling the Snyders may
have been there.
WILLIAMS: Their daughter was in the wedding.
WARR: Yes, but I’m not sure of that because I’ve met him and seen him other times
when he’s been here, so I can’t identify whether that was another time.
WILLIAMS: So there was a receiving line like at everybody else’s wedding?
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: And you just went through it?
WARR: You just went through and shook hands.
WILLIAMS: Were introduced to the Daniels?
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: How much contact have you had with Margaret since she’s been married?
36
WARR: It’s sort of spasmodic, but we have stayed in touch, more the last few years
than we had in earlier years. When she was very busy with her family, I
was very busy with mine. She had more careers going, you might say, with
her talk show and the plays she was in and that kind of thing. I was a
member of the national board of Girl Scouts of U.S.A., and so I was going
into New York six and eight times a year. At some point I thought, you
know, this is ridiculous. I’m here and she’s here, and maybe her time is . . .
When she would come here, her time needed to be pretty much with her
parents and taking care of things here, so often she didn’t see her friends
when she was here. So I wrote her and said, “I’d like to take you to lunch,
and let’s get together or do something.” So she got back to me, and she
said, “Come to the apartment. Clifton would like to see you, too.” So I did
and we sat down and had a nice visit with Clifton and then went to lunch
together. And we did that a few times, not on any regular basis at all, but it
did sort of reinforce our friendship again and then we were in touch more.
Then, still later when the Bess Wallace Truman Award was established . . .
She’s ex officio member of that committee, and I’m a member of that
committee, and so I am liaison with her to keep her informed of what we’re
doing and to get her opinion about possible recipients, so we started talking
on the phone and now we talk more often, sometimes not to do with that.
Additionally, she’s asked Shawsie and me to help her occasionally with
something related to the family, and we’ve tried to do that. Because when
you are at a distance, with May [Wallace] in particular, there needs to be
37
someone sort of on site, during some of this. She then called one day and
said, “I’m really going to need an attorney to represent me out there with
some of the work with May’s estate and that kind of thing. Who would you
suggest?” And I said, “This is a little bit awkward, but my son, I think, is
the best one,”—and that’s the kind of work he does is estate work. She
said, “It had completely slipped my mind, and anyway, I didn’t know that
that was his field.” So she did call, and so they are in touch regularly, so he
carries messages. He’ll often say, “Margaret said to tell you thus and so,”
or whatever, so it’s made an additional touchstone sort of for us, which has
been nice. And they just hit it off. I thought, “Oh, dear, what have I done?”
[chuckling] Because, you know, lawyers don’t get along with everybody,
and clients don’t get along with their lawyers sometimes, but it’s worked
out very well. They just seem to understand one another’s sense of humor
and where they’re coming from. My son is as forthright as Margaret is, and
that works well, you know. It doesn’t work if you’re not, and so they’re
very compatible. It’s been a nice relationship, apparently. He’s enjoyed it
very much, and she says she does, so it’s good.
WILLIAMS: Does Margaret have the same sense of humor that her parents did?
WARR: Yes, I think she’s more like her father than like her mother.
WILLIAMS: And you used the word “forthright.”
WARR: Yes, right. Mrs. Truman was forthright, but quieter about it, let’s say.
[chuckling] As you know, she had great influence with the president.
WILLIAMS: Do you swap stories with Margaret about your families and things like that?
38
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: And her sons and grandchildren now?
WARR: Yes, she’s funny when it comes to that. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: I heard she . . .
WARR: She’s very offhand about a lot of it, you know.
WILLIAMS: Sort of didn’t know if she’d like the idea of being a grandmother or not.
WARR: She loves the grandchildren, let’s put it that way. I’m not sure at first blush
how she felt about it, but she talks about the grandchildren, and it’s evident
that she has lots of feeling about them.
WILLIAMS: I think when they come along it’s a different matter.
WARR: Yes, it’s different than just thinking about it.
WILLIAMS: Well, when the Trumans came back here to retire, how much contact would
you have with them?
WARR: Oh, not really any, particularly. Only, as I say, when she would call to
arrange for something, or she may have called a time or two when my
parents were ill or something to inquire from me about them, but it was a
very casual relationship. There were many years separating us in ages,
even between their ages and my parents.
WILLIAMS: Right, ten or fifteen years.
WARR: Yes, and my parents, I have already told you, were very family-oriented
and didn’t do things socially, and so they moved in different circles outside
of the poker club. My mother was not a bridge player and was not a
member of that group, though she knew those ladies, and they were friendly
39
but not close friends.
WILLIAMS: You’ve mentioned a few times when the Trumans were at your parents’
house. [see appendix, item 3] Were there other times that you remember?
WARR: I think I’ve probably told you about the only ones that I’m aware of.
WILLIAMS: But it wouldn’t have been too unusual for the Trumans to be in the
neighbors’ houses?
WARR: No, I don’t think they were in and out of one another’s homes to any extent.
It would surprise me. I don’t think at the Allens nor . . . Again, the
Wallaces, family, the Nolands, you know . . . But when it came to in and
out of one another’s houses, that neighborhood wasn’t much that way.
WILLIAMS: Just maybe on special occasions like at the wedding reception?
WARR: Yes. I just don’t recall much of that. Now, Grace Carvin, who lived to the
north of my parents, Grace and Mother were on that kind of a basis with
one another. Grace was in and out of Mother’s, and Mother was over there
from time to time, but they didn’t get together and drink coffee every day or
anything like that. But particularly in Grace’s later years, Mother was very
helpful to her. It’s too bad you can’t have Grace’s reminiscences about the
Secret Service and that kind of thing, because she had wonderful stories
because they often lived there.
WILLIAMS: The agents?
WARR: The agents, yes.
WILLIAMS: Do you know any of those?
WARR: Not really, no. They were always friendly people, and we would visit with
40
them. My dad enjoyed them and they enjoyed him, and it was sort of nice
for them to have a man to visit with, because in the later years there was no
man in the Carvin household. They would visit around outside in the yard.
Mr. Dorsey in particular was a friend who stayed in touch for quite a long
while after he was not in Independence anymore.
WILLIAMS: I’ve heard that Secret Service agents lived here during the whole
presidency, and they were the ones who kept an eye on the house.
WARR: Oh, yes.
WILLIAMS: Did you know any of those?
WARR: Only in passing, and as I say, Mr. Dorsey was one who was here for quite a
while and lived there at Miss Carvin’s, and that’s about all I can tell you
about him. He was a very pleasant man, but I didn’t know him well.
WILLIAMS: There was one through the home earlier this summer who said that he had
lived on Delaware Street all those years, but he wouldn’t give his name.
WARR: Oh, bless his heart.
WILLIAMS: He said he was retired and didn’t want to be bothered, I guess.
WARR: Well, and anyway, you see, they protected the Trumans’ privacy. They just
wouldn’t interfere with that, even to this day; which is quite remarkable, I
think, when you realize the books that have been written about other
presidents almost immediately upon their leaving. Now maybe Secret
Service men haven’t done as much of that.
WILLIAMS: Mrs. Carvin, she also kept Truman Library researchers?
WARR: Yes, she did. They were very at-home there, I think.
41
WILLIAMS: I’ve even heard that house referred to as the “Truman Library dorm.”
WARR: Oh, that’s cute. I don’t think I ever heard that. She would have liked that,
and maybe she knew it. [chuckling] She was a grand person.
WILLIAMS: I think you mentioned before we started that you were a volunteer here at
the library.
WARR: Yes, I was in that first group of Junior Service League women who Mr.
Truman trained personally to do that job, and that was fun.
WILLIAMS: How was he as a boss?
WARR: [chuckling] Well, it was an interesting tour, of course, and we took heavy
notes, and I’m not sure but what much of that was transcribed for us
perhaps, too. He was easy, you know. He was very easy with us. He knew
many of us, so it was a folksy kind of thing, but then that was his style
anyway.
WILLIAMS: Was he around a lot in the museum?
WARR: Oh, not that I was aware of. He was in and out of the auditorium frequently
for student groups. Of course, he was here in this part of the building often,
and there would be a rare occasion when I would be here in some other
capacity or would bring books in to have him autograph. I know with the
Girl Scouts, if we were having someone nationally known in as a speaker or
something, the best gift we could give them was autographed copies of the
president’s memoirs, and he was always very gracious about signing those
books. In this same sort of feeling that we had about not taking advantage,
my own books are not autographed. And I told Rose Conway one day at
42
the beauty shop—we often had our hair done about the same time—I said,
“You know, this has happened to me. I’ve had the books in so many times,
and he’s been so nice to inscribe them, and I don’t have mine autographed.”
And she said, “That’s terrible. We need to do something about it. But,”
she said, “you know, I doubt if he. . . .” It was in the very later years.
She said, “I seriously doubt he’s going to be in the office again. But if he
is, you bring the books in and we’ll get them signed.” But he was not back
again. She was quite a remarkable lady, too. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: She was very loyal, I think.
WARR: Oh, extremely loyal, very, very protective. And really, it was a long time
before she even relaxed with any of us, and then I think she finally learned
that there were some of us who could be protective, too, and she relaxed
with us.
WILLIAMS: Was she sort of the supervisor of the tour guides, or did she have much to
do with that?
WARR: No, not that I recall. I was trying to think who the woman was.
WILLIAMS: I’ve heard Helen Lucky’s name.
WARR: I think Helen Lucky was very . . . I know Helen Lucky was very active
with us, and that may have been her job description, I’m just not sure. But
Helen was . . .
WILLIAMS: So you would see Rose Conway here and around town, or just here?
WARR: Well, it happens that she had the same beauty operator and that I would see
her there, or when I would make arrangements to come into the library for
43
any reason other than just the tour things, why, you’d always make
arrangements with Miss Rose.
WILLIAMS: Did you visit the Truman home anytime in the last part of Mr. Truman’s
life or after he died?
WARR: No, I don’t think I was ever there during that period.
WILLIAMS: What was the reaction in the neighborhood to his death?
WARR: Oh, I think everyone was pretty well prepared for that. My father and
mother were invited to that funeral, and it was a very interesting process to
all of us the way it was so carefully arranged, with an escort for each of
those people.
WILLIAMS: So they were escorted to the library?
WARR: As I recall, they were assigned cars. They were assigned, I think, a military
escort. Every couple, I believe, who was invited had a person assigned to
them. There surely must be a better record than I can give you of that
because I was not personally involved in that. But it was a very, very cold
day, and I know my mother was extremely cold that day. I was worried
about her.
It was a pretty cold day when Mrs. Truman died, and again, of
course, there were the invitations to the funeral, but not as much pomp as
with Mr. Truman’s—I’m sure the way she wanted it as well. [chuckling]
My mother and dad again were invited. My mother by that time was not
able to go, was very, very frail, and my father was frail also and needed
assistance, and so he called and asked if I might come with him in place of
44
Mother. It was hard for him to do, and it was hard for me because, again,
you didn’t want to ask to be included. But in order for him to come, and it
was terribly important for him to come, why, he did ask and was told, “Of
course,” and so I was privileged to be at the funeral and at the grave site
with him that day. It was the first time I had seen Margaret for several
years and I think she was a little surprised, because of course I was not
really on the list. But it seemed to be accepted well. You could see she was
taken aback for a moment that it was I who was there instead of Mother,
and I quickly explained to her why I was there.
WILLIAMS: Did you know the Nolands at all or Ardis Haukenberry?
WARR: Ardis, but not really the Nolands, no. I knew Ardis a little. Of course, she
was . . .
WILLIAMS: You went to church together.
WARR: Yes, she was very active in our church. A valiant little lady. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: I knew her a little bit just from working across the street and waving and
that sort of thing. I never really spoke to her.
WARR: Oh, sure. Never knew her well. Well, my goodness, that house. I wish that
could get settled.
WILLIAMS: I think we’re working on that.
WARR: I know you’re working on it. [chuckling] There’s not going to be anything
left to restore.
WILLIAMS: I don’t know what the hold-up is. What was she like?
WARR: She was a feisty little lady. She was just darling, I thought. Very, very
45
committed to her church and to her family, and that’s really about all I can
tell you about her.
WILLIAMS: She was a Ragland, right? That was her maiden name?
WARR: I believe that’s right.
WILLIAMS: You didn’t know any of her other family?
WARR: No, I didn’t.
WILLIAMS: And I guess you knew the Wallaces, George and May?
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Frank and Natalie?
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Would you mind talking some about them, because we’re trying to get their
houses, too.
WARR: I can’t really tell you very much. Again, they were much older than I, and I
knew Natalie, who was one of the people who helped organize the
Independence Junior Service League. She along with Ellen Bundschu and
Amy Hatten and Mary Bostian—there may have been another, but that is
most of them—were the organizers of that. But then she didn’t stay active.
She was just a member for a few years, and that was not really her kind of
thing to do. So I knew her that way, and I had met the uncles, both of them,
but that’s about all. May I have known a little better. Margaret would stay
there when she would come back and her parents were not at home, or at
least May would be responsible for her, you know. [chuckling] So,
through that relationship, I knew May a little bit better, and then through
46
Sue Gentry’s close relationship with May, and then sometimes we’d be at
the same parties, big parties that were given, like at the Women’s City Club
or someplace like that. And she was always very gracious to me because I
was Margaret’s friend, basically. Then, of course, she knew we were in the
house that her brother-in-law and sister had built, and there were these
cross-relationships, sort of. A nice lady, with her interest in books and in
cards. [chuckling] She loved her card games, and just a nice, gracious
family.
WILLIAMS: Have you ever been involved in the bridge clubs or the study clubs or
anything?
WARR: No. No, I learned to play bridge and didn’t like it. [chuckling] And that’s
just not the way I prefer to spend my time. I miss the association with
people, but it just isn’t my thing to do, nor really the study clubs. I really
like more active roles, like in doing things here at the library or Girl Scouts
and more active things. Proactive, sometimes.
WILLIAMS: Natalie was petite, is that right?
WARR: Very tiny, yes. Very tiny. Of course, they were both short, and May is
short, but Natalie was smaller.
WILLIAMS: These Otts, I get them all mixed up. She had a half-sister who lived . . .
Sue Gentry was telling me this, and I think I have it.
WARR: Yes, but you need Sue to keep all those relationships straight. [chuckling]
She has them all right up here in her head.
WILLIAMS: But there were Otts that lived near you?
47
WARR: Yes, right up the block there, and Albert was related some way. I presume
it was Albert’s mother, probably, but I’m not sure. I can’t sort that out.
And of course, Mary and Albert were our friends, and then their children
and our children have been friends.
WILLIAMS: If you wouldn’t mind, I’d like to talk a little bit about the neighbors back in
the forties and fifties, at least the ones you knew.
WARR: All right, I’ll try.
WILLIAMS: Because as you know we do walking tours and it’s nice to be able to walk
down Delaware Street and talk about the people who lived there. Did you
know people on Maple very much? Did you have much contact with them?
WARR: A few.
WILLIAMS: And of course you knew the Allens.
WARR: Yes, the Allens. Harriet was just older than I, and Mona was a little
younger, was my sister’s closest friend, and then Marie and I were
particularly good friends in service league, and Mona, too. Harriet was
more our contemporary, Margaret’s and mine, but I became closer friends
with the others as the years went along.
WILLIAMS: I think Barbie is going to be here next month.
WARR: Oh, is she coming in again soon?
WILLIAMS: I hope to interview her.
WARR: I hope you will.
WILLIAMS: She wanted to bring Harriet, but since Harriet broke her leg, that may not be
possible.
48
WARR: Yes, it may not.
WILLIAMS: Anyone else? I could read off names but it would probably be easier if you
just . . .
WARR: Just look at them, yes.
WILLIAMS: This is Maple, around the corner from the Truman home, in 1950. This is
from the city directory [see appendix, item 4].
WARR: Of course, I knew the Gards and the Comboys only slightly in their office
space there. The Allens were the ones I knew the best. The vacant space
here was where Sue Ogden lived, who was my good friend, that house
burned.
WILLIAMS: That’s where her house was.
WARR: Yes, and I knew her and her mother and aunt, and it was really the
grandparents’ home, I believe, and they lived there with the grandparents,
and I knew them a little.
WILLIAMS: That would have been about 612 or 614 Maple.
WARR: Something like that, yes.
WILLIAMS: And she had a sister. Is that right? Betty?
WARR: Betty, yes. Betty lives in Leavenworth and . . .
WILLIAMS: But you were more friends with Sue?
WARR: Sue was my age. Sue was in my wedding, also. Then, at one time, Sue
lived across Maple in the Maples Apartments. Well, I’m not sure if it was
Maple Wood or Maples, anyway, in one of those. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: You can’t keep them straight.
49
WARR: I only know the Prewitts and the Wrights slightly. The Huhns I knew, but I
know them a little and knew Charles, the son, and Caroline well. And of
course, Henry Bundschu only slightly, though I knew his nephew and
nieces, those people much better, and Ellen Bunschu, his sister-in-law.
[End#4330; Begin #4331]
WILLIAMS: I think we were over here on Maple. Bundschu, maybe? Everybody
shopped there.
WARR: The Bundschu . . . well, yes, but that was really . . . Henry Bundschu was
not so much a member of the store. He may have had an interest in it, but it
was C.C., his brother, who ran the store, and Tony who ran the store, and
Henry was a bankruptcy judge.
WILLIAMS: And over here on Pleasant you went to school, right?
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Any fond memories of Palmer?
WARR: Well, it was, of course, the Independence Junior High School. Well, it
burned, you know, part of it burned. My sister was there then, and I believe
I had just gone on to high school, if I remember correctly. So that was a lot
of excitement when the library burned, the Independence Public Library, all
that.
WILLIAMS: And high school was down the street at William Chrisman.
WARR: High school was down here.
WILLIAMS: So would you walk by the Truman home, back and forth?
WARR: Oh, yes, yes, for the brief time that we lived there. You see, I was only
50
there a year and a half before I graduated.
WILLIAMS: And you said you went to school . . . Sunday school?
WARR: No, they had a kindergarten where the Watson Sunday School Building
was. It was a house, and I went to kindergarten there across from the
Truman home, cater-cornered across from the Truman home. And I said
Mrs. Luff was a friend of my grandmother’s, Mrs. John Luff, and the
Majors I just knew in passing, and the Nolands we’ve already mentioned.
Maxine Choplin was a longtime friend, even before they moved into that
house, and I don’t even remember who lived there before. I probably have
known at one time.
WILLIAMS: I’ve been trying to reach her off and on.
WARR: Maxine? Well, of course she works for the Convention Bureau in Kansas
City, so you need to probably reach her in the evening.
WILLIAMS: Okay. And the parsonage is over there.
WARR: And the parsonage is there. The Reverend Harold M. Hunt, who lived there
. . .
WILLIAMS: And that’s the Baptist . . . ?
WARR: That’s the Baptist minister who married Floyd and me and was my father’s
very, very close friend. And then, as you go down the other side, we’ve
already talked a little, what little I have to give you about the Wallace
families. I just knew the Danielsons and the Whetstones in passing; the
Smiths only slightly better because they had a son the age of my son.
WILLIAMS: We tell stories about Mr. Jackson, I guess, there on Pleasant?
51
WARR: Yes. Again, he was of a different generation than I. Their daughter taught
me to swim—well, she tried to teach me to swim. [laughter] I never really
learned. She kind of gave up on me, I think. And then Sue Lindsey up
here, I believe I’m right, had the hat shop up on the square in Independence,
on the west side of the square, and she and my grandmother, again, were
friends.
WILLIAMS: Let’s move up the street a little bit here.
WARR: All right.
WILLIAMS: While we’re on Pleasant, we might as well . . . Did you have much contact
with the Pleasant Street people?
WARR: Well, let me refresh my memory here. This is, of course, Mrs. Elizabeth
Gentry, but I don’t even remember when she lived there. [chuckling] I had
known her late. Garvin Dyer I knew a little because my father owned
property around town, and he was with the water company and they
occupied one of the buildings my father owned, so I knew Mr. Dyer a little.
WILLIAMS: The Noels? Did you know them?
WARR: Just very slightly. My parents knew them. As a matter of fact, along right
in here—and I can’t identify from numbers—some of my father’s family
lived. His uncle and his cousins lived in one of those houses there for
many, many years, and I was in and out of one of those houses very often.
As a matter of fact, it’s sort of interesting because my father’s father’s
brother married my father’s mother’s sister, which made the children of
those two marriages double cousins. So the bloodlines were identical, and
52
you could tell it by looking at them. [chuckling] And by their actions, by
their voices. They were like brothers and sisters, and they lived in this
block here.
WILLIAMS: And that’s down near the Baptist church.
WARR: Yes, it’s down in behind it. It’s one of the houses which is still there.
WILLIAMS: Didn’t everybody know Mrs. Palmer?
WARR: Yes, everybody knew Mrs. Palmer. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: Was she ever one of your teachers?
WARR: At church, yes.
WILLIAMS: I don’t know too many of these names over on Pleasant. I know we talked
some about . . .
WARR: Well, the Mitchells, of course, were Baptist people, and I knew both of
them. Of course, they had the funeral home where all of our family’s
funerals were from that funeral home.
WILLIAMS: The Ott-Mitchell?
WARR: Ott & Mitchell, yes. And then their daughter is somewhat older than I, but
I’ve known their daughter Sue for a very long time. The Chandlers I’ve
known, and the Miller-Lambert family, I’ve known all of those. And that
probably . . . Harry Sturges . . . One of the first dates I ever had was with a
young man who lived on this corner, and that was the Necessary family that
lived here on the corner. The Sturges family was up almost to the alley.
WILLIAMS: That was at Farmer and Pleasant, huh?
WARR: Yes.
53
WILLIAMS: Was Farmer really the hill that was good for sledding?
WARR: Yes! [laughter] They used to block off this part of Farmer for sledding for
the children when our children were small, put up barricades and make it
slide, which made it nice and safe.
WILLIAMS: That’s nice.
WARR: It was safer than grabbing onto the bumper of a car, as this boy and I did a
time or two. [laughter] My parents, if they weren’t gone already, would be
gone if they ever had known it. Can you imagine anything? I’m sure you
both have done that.
WILLIAMS: No.
WARR: Not really? I guess traffic just got so much heavier that . . . You know, it
wasn’t quite as dangerous then, but it was never a safe thing to do. Okay.
WILLIAMS: Let’s go over toward Delaware. Here’s some more Farmer.
WARR: The Holmans, yes.
WILLIAMS: Is that who you were talking about?
WARR: No, this was before the Holmans. It was the Necessary family. Mrs.
Hutchins, Mrs. Campbell, and these are some of the people we’ve already
talked about.
WILLIAMS: It overlaps.
WARR: Yes. Let’s see, what is that? Let’s don’t talk about this one. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: All right.
WARR: That lady was something else. The Reeses. Elizabeth, fondly known as Sis
Rees, still lives in Independence. Her husband is retired as a dentist, and I
54
don’t know whether you’ve had any connection with them or not.
WILLIAMS: Is she the daughter of Louise?
WARR: Daughter, yes.
WILLIAMS: No, I haven’t, but . . .
WARR: And the Burruses. Of course, we all knew the Burruses. For a long time,
Mr. Truman, if he was walking this way, didn’t have any sidewalk to walk
on because . . .
WILLIAMS: On the east side?
WARR: No, that would be on the Delaware side there, on the west side, but on the
east side of Delaware, yes. And because Mr. Burrus, when they widened
Delaware a little bit there, they tore out his sidewalk and he wouldn’t let
them put in another one. It was his yard, and it was going to stay his yard.
[laughter] It’s only in quite recent years that . . .
WILLIAMS: Oh, so you’d have to step off into the street?
WARR: Well, no, you just walked through his yard. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: You’d think he’d rather have a sidewalk.
WARR: You would think so. He was a character. A lot of these people were
characters, you know? I don’t think we raise the same kind of characters
anymore in this generation. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: It sounds like a really interesting neighborhood.
WARR: And Mr. Duke, and of course Mrs. Duke was a friend of Mrs. Truman’s as
well. That house looked quite different then. Everything was perfect, and
Bill Duke and my father were very good friends. Of course, the Carson
55
family and the Grahams.
WILLIAMS: Are the Carsons the funeral home Carsons, or is that different?
WARR: Well, yes, it is. George was the . . .
WILLIAMS: George, that’s right.
WARR: . . . was the father, but it is George’s grandson who is still associated with
the funeral home.
WILLIAMS: I think the next map would probably show Delaware Street a little bit better.
WARR: Okay.
WILLIAMS: Well, we’re back toward the Truman home. We can go toward Waldo on
the next one, but . . .
WARR: The Bushes, originally when we were growing up, didn’t live here but lived
on down Delaware further, on the east side of Delaware. So people have
assumed that they were part of the Henhouse Hicks, but I think they were
not, really.
WILLIAMS: That was Elizabeth and Virginia?
WARR: Elizabeth and Virginia.
WILLIAMS: Did you know them?
WARR: Oh, yes, I’ve known them ever since junior high. We went all through
school together, and then, of course, they were neighbors of my parents for
so many, many years. But you see, this isn’t back quite that early, these
dates.
WILLIAMS: Right, this is ’50, and you were there in ’40 or so.
WARR: Yes.
56
WILLIAMS: We have these because they’re during the presidency.
WARR: Yes, I understand why you have these.
WILLIAMS: It would be nice to have every year, kind of computerized or something.
Matthews?
WARR: Yes, Mr. Matthews was superintendent of schools, and one of his sons was
a good friend of my sister’s, but I did not know them so well as she did.
And the Helfes I knew a little. But again, all these people were much older.
WILLIAMS: I’ve heard about the Twymans of course.
WARR: Yes, she was a lovely lady and was a member of the bridge club.
WILLIAMS: With Mrs. Truman?
WARR: With Mrs. Truman, yes. But I don’t think there’s anything I can probably
really tell you that you don’t know more about than I do.
WILLIAMS: Let’s turn the corner up onto Waldo there.
WARR: Now, the Balfours were a wonderful family, and you know for a long time .
. . they had come here from Canada, and Mrs. Balfour retained her
Canadian citizenship until Mr. Truman was running. Now, I’m not sure,
again, whether it was the vice presidency or the presidency, but she wanted
to be able to vote in that election, and it’s my understanding that she then
obtained her citizenship so that she could vote in that election. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: That’s nice. Do you know the Sawyers and Sawyer-Jennings?
WARR: Yes, the Sawyer-Jennings, both the Sawyers and the Jennings. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: I need to talk to, I guess, Mrs. Jennings.
WARR: No, you need to talk to Virginia Nadeau. Mrs. Jennings is gone, but
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Virginia would be a good interview for you.
WILLIAMS: They had the decorating business?
WARR: Yes, in Kansas City, but Virginia would be fine. Of the Ruckers, the
daughter is still living, Jean Rucker Bunyar, and they live . . . oh, dear,
Kimberling City, I believe it is—anyway, in south Missouri, down near
Springfield, down near Branson, actually.
WILLIAMS: Who is Alex Klein?
WARR: I remember them, but only slightly. They didn’t live there very long.
WILLIAMS: And the Grahams?
WARR: And the Grahams. They are longtime friends, and of course she’s been
very active in historical things here because she was the executive director
for the Jackson County Historical Society for a number of years, and
Kenneth was active in the community as well.
WILLIAMS: That’s Hazel and Kenneth?
WARR: Hazel Graham, yes.
WILLIAMS: And what about the Gentrys? Are they good neighbors?
WARR: Of course they’re good neighbors. [laughter] Wonderful neighbors, and
Sue’s a delightful friend. We remember her parents and her brothers, and
I’m sure you have all the information that she has stored up and will hope to
even get more. The Bryants—Mr. Bryant that is. Only Mr. Bryant lived in
that stone house there on the corner. He didn’t have a garage, and there’s
still no garage on that property. The Balfours had a double garage back
here, and so he kept his car in their garage, and so he would come and go at
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all hours, day and evening, whatever he was doing. He’d take his car down
there and put it in in the evening. At that time, that house had a nice big
front porch on it, which is no longer there, and the Balfours in the summer
would sit out on that porch, and George would go up on the porch, and
they’d sit there and visit. It was right outside our bedroom window.
Sometimes they’d visit quite late, and we could hear much of the
conversation, and always the laughter. There was so much laughter, and
such a good thing to have in a neighborhood. Miss Carstensen was a
schoolteacher and had that house and apartments in the house across from
us there. Always kept it beautifully, just as it’s kept now that her nephew
owns it. The Stevens family I never did really know very well at 803 West
Waldo. Some of the earlier inhabitants I had known, but I didn’t know the
Stevens well.
WILLIAMS: Mrs. Etzenhouser isn’t on here on Delaware. She must have been earlier or
later or something. Did you know her?
WARR: Yes, I did, a little. I knew her daughter better, of course. I think wouldn’t
she have been in the Kelly house?
WILLIAMS: Yes, it’s one of those on the west side as you round the corner from Farmer.
WARR: Well, either this house or this house, but I sort of think it was the Kelly
house. She was an interesting lady, and of course her daughter is gone now
also, so there’s no opportunity to interview her.
WILLIAMS: And she was a schoolteacher?
WARR: Yes.
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WILLIAMS: The one that foiled, supposedly, the kidnappers.
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I think that’s one of the stories on the walking tour.
WARR: One of the better stories, yes.
WILLIAMS: I don’t know if this goes up Delaware any more or not. Yes, we go all the
way up to . . . Did you know the people in the 600 block?
WARR: Some of them. I knew the Twachtmans. They were grand people.
Margaret Meredith is still around there, a schoolteacher.
WILLIAMS: I think she volunteered for us a while ago.
WARR: Yes, I expect she might have.
WILLIAMS: At the historical society.
WARR: Yes, and Miss Weber I knew a little. The Trenchards I really didn’t know
so well at that time as I knew later. And Jessie Page, all of us knew Jessie
Page who taught in high school here, and Miss Thomason who is still a
very active person in the community. I don’t know whether that’s a person
you’ve heard from or not.
WILLIAMS: No. So she’s still around?
WARR: Yes. The Fullertons. I’d even forgotten that they lived there, [chuckling]
but that brings that back to mind. And the Stewarts were good friends of
my family’s, and Byron was for many years my father’s attorney, and the
son, Byron, Jr., who is an attorney, was a very close friend of my sister’s.
And the Peters family, a daughter was around my age, I think maybe a year
older, and I knew them. The Seas I only knew in passing, and the Riskeys.
60
WILLIAMS: Mrs. Peters was in the bridge club, too, wasn’t she?
WARR: Right.
WILLIAMS: And I’ve heard Fullerton, I think, in that connection, too.
WARR: Oh, I didn’t know that, but that’s possible.
WILLIAMS: Maybe not.
WARR: That’s very possible, and I might not have known it.
WILLIAMS: Is this Choplin up here, Mabel, related?
WARR: That would have been the mother of Luke Choplin, who is on the other
corner up there. Of course, Josephine was probably living there as well as
Mrs. Choplin. The family was raised there: Luke, and Rodney, and
Josephine, Mary Ruth, and Dorothy. A big family. A good Baptist family.
[chuckling] See, I know all those names. Okay, we’re back to where we
started.
WILLIAMS: I think that’s where we started. One thing I didn’t talk about was the
church relationship, and I suppose it was all mixed in there in the
neighborhood. Some people were Presbyterians and Methodists and . . .
WARR: Yes, because there were so many of those churches close, the two
Methodist churches, the Presbyterian church, the Baptist church, and then
the RLDS churches, of course, and so there was a lot of mixture.
WILLIAMS: One thing Mr. Truman is known for is being a Baptist.
WARR: Right, right.
WILLIAMS: And people ask us about that, and also they have heard that back when
Harry and Bess were growing up there was kind of a social hierarchy based
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on the church.
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Did that survive into the time you were growing up?
WARR: Oh, I think the Episcopalians have chronically—may I use that term
[laughter]—been judged to be, let’s say, socially superior, if not religiously
so. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: So that some of that still survived?
WARR: Yes. And then there were a number of Catholic families in that
neighborhood, because Saint Mary’s was not too far away, and those
Catholic children, of course, went to the Catholic schools over there.
There’s no longer an elementary school there, but the high school is still
there. And all during the years our children were growing up and some of
the parents were growing up, why, they would have been going to the
Catholic school and it was within walking distance, you see. So we had a
very eclectic neighborhood.
WILLIAMS: I’ve heard the Catholics and the RLDS, or the Mormons, were pretty low
on the list.
WARR: There may have been some of that, never with my family or the people I
associated with, not in any sense. My family in particular has always felt
that the RLDS contributed a great deal to this community, and that they’re
good community people, and while we may not agree with the things they
believe totally, that we feel there has been some discrimination and we
object to it strenuously.
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WILLIAMS: I think I’m probably, along with you, somewhere in the middle there. I’m
with Sue Gentry in the Christian church. We were talking about that with
her, too.
WARR: Yes, but there is some of that. Some of it still lingers, I’m sure, today. I
hear people say disparaging things, and I can’t agree in any sense with it. I
think they’ve been somewhat privileged by their sheer numbers, but if you
check the numbers of Baptists in Independence and the number of RLDS .
. . [chuckling] The only thing is, the Baptists are so independent of one
another and everybody else that they don’t get together and vote the same
way, you know, but I can’t fault them for that.
WILLIAMS: It seems like there are an awful lot of churches in the neighborhood.
WARR: Many churches. Isn’t it interesting how they came to this side of town, sort
of.
WILLIAMS: To the north and west of the square.
WARR: Yes, if you go the same distance in any other direction, you don’t find those
churches. They’re all concentrated in one area.
WILLIAMS: I think along the walking tour route you can stand and see five steeples.
Maybe you can probably see the temple now.
WARR: Will be able to, that’s for sure. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: So that’s another one, so that’s . . . I have, I think, an article . . . We didn’t
have much about your family already, but there’s a picture of . . . Let’s see,
well, this is one about pine cones [see appendix, item 5].
WARR: Oh, yes, my dad. [chuckling]
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WILLIAMS: He made pine cone . . . And it mentions that he has lunch every day with
the Reverend Harold M. Hunt who you mentioned. He lived across the
street from the Trumans. And this, I guess, was when Mr. Truman died.
WARR: Oh, yes.
WILLIAMS: It says that . . .
WARR: I didn’t remember . . . I don’t think I’ve ever seen it before.
WILLIAMS: This is from the Truman Library. Apparently they . . .
WARR: From the Topeka, Kansas, Journal. You see that profile and why he could
be mistaken for the president a little bit?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
WARR: I won’t talk too much about profiles, however. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: Well, with the nose and the chin.
WARR: That’s nice. I’d really like to have a copy of that, if it’s possible for you to
get me one.
WILLIAMS: Sure. It’s not very good and clear, but . . .
WARR: It’s not very clear, but it’s very evident who it is.
WILLIAMS: And you can see the Truman home in the distance, and he’s taking down
the flag, I guess, that he had been flying at half-staff.
WARR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: But that’s about all we had.
WARR: Well, there are a world of clippings. He was apparently newsworthy. He
did interesting things. He had an island in Canada that he owned and that
he built a fishing cottage on and then built a guest house so that he could
64
have his family and friends there, on a nineteen-mile lake and only one
other inhabitant on the whole lake. So there were often stories about his
trips to Canada and his fishing and that kind of thing, and then about the
pop and about the ice cream. There’s, I remember, one picture in the paper
. . . [see appendix, items 6 and 7]. He had a snow plow, a small one, a little
tractor with a snow plow attached, and he would clear the neighbor’s. . .
and the Truman’s sidewalks, always did the Truman’s sidewalks. He
would come around and do ours and Sue’s, and then go down around the
block and do the Choplins, the far away Choplins.
WILLIAMS: The sidewalks along the street, or even up to the door?
WARR: Not usually up to the door. We were privileged. [chuckling] He’d do our
driveway for us. But yes, he would . . .
WILLIAMS: That was neighborly.
WARR: Yes, and so there was a picture in the paper of him doing the sidewalks, and
sometimes he’d even go up and do the ones around the buildings he owned
up around the square and those places, you know, just because he liked to
be out and be active and doing something. So that would be another reason
Mrs. Truman would call and say to my mother or to my dad, whomever
answered the phone, and thank them for having the walks cleared, you
know. The Secret Service wasn’t great on shoveling. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: I think they had the attitude it wasn’t their problem.
WARR: It was not their job. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: Well, if some of those clippings are at hand, it would be nice.
65
WARR: Well, I considered bringing a scrapbook out, and then I didn’t do it. I didn’t
really know what you wanted to do, and, again, I don’t want to overkill.
[chuckling] But we could consider doing that.
WILLIAMS: But that’s a nice neighborhood story, too, him shoveling the snow.
WARR: Okay, well, there is quite a lot you can copy and . . . We could do that.
WILLIAMS: Well, thank you. You’ve been very nice and . . .
WARR: Well, I hope it’s been helpful and not . . .
WILLIAMS: Lots of good information.
WARR: I don’t want to make it appear that we were every day in and out of one
another’s house kinds of friends. I don’t want to give that impression at all,
because that is not true and it would be taking advantage if I were to imply
that, but we were friends.
WILLIAMS: Well, I’ll see what I can do about that dishcloth.
WARR: [laughter] Would you really?
WILLIAMS: I’ll mention it, but I don’t think I’m going to get very far.
WARR: You don’t think you’re going to get very far? I just haven’t . . . I keep
trying to get up the nerve to mention it to Margaret. [chuckling] But you
know, that dishcloth doesn’t bother Margaret; it just bothers me. Because
I’d be embarrassed if it were in my home or if indeed I had left it in my
mother’s home after she died and I was showing that house. My mother
would have been so upset with me, and I know that Mrs. Truman wouldn’t
like it. [chuckling] That’s my latest soapbox, I guess. Thank you. You’re
a good interviewer, by the way.
66
WILLIAMS: Well, thank you. You’ve been very nice.
[End#4331; Begin #4332]
WILLIAMS: We’re at the home of Polly Compton, 318 North Delaware in
Independence. His daughter Dorsy Warr is going to give us a look at the
home. It’s the afternoon of July 30, 1991.
WARR: Hi, everybody.
ALL: Hello.
WARR: Come in. Hi, Jim.
WILLIAMS: Would you like to be introduced?
WARR: I’d love it, if you don’t mind.
WILLIAMS: Okay, this is Karen Tinnin, a park ranger.
KAREN: Hi, nice to meet you.
WILLIAMS: Stephanie Dice, a park ranger.
WARR: Hi, I’ve met you before.
WILLIAMS: Karen Johnson.
WARR: Hello, Karen.
WILLIAMS: Carol Dage.
DAGE: Hi.
WARR: Hi, Carol.
WILLIAMS: Delbert Johnson.
JOHNSON: Delbert Johnson.
WARR: Yes, I met you the other day, I think.
WILLIAMS: Brian Hoduski.
67
BRIAN HODUSKI: Well, hello.
WARR: Again.
HODUSKI: Again.
WILLIAMS: Jeff Wade.
WADE: Hi, glad to meet you.
WILLIAMS: And you know Scott Stone.
WARR: Yes, I know Scott.
SCOTT STONE: Nice to see you again.
WARR: Nice to see all of you.
WILLIAMS: This is Dorsy Warr.
WARR: Yes. There are still some more to come, I think, and I have some lemonade
in the kitchen for those of you who have been working today. Why don’t
we go out in the kitchen and you can have some lemonade, and then we’ll
start you through.
WILLIAMS: Regina Underwood is sick, so she won’t be here. I assume she won’t be
here. [tape turned off]
WARR: [In the kitchen] . . . in the last shipment to come out of Belgium before
World War II. My parents purchased this house in 1939. It’s only had two
owners. The first one was the Sollers family. They built the house and they
owned it, and then their daughter and son-in-law moved into the house.
Their name was Dunn. They moved in sometime between 1915 and 1939,
and then they sold the home to my parents. So it’s only had the two
families live here in all that time. So, in 1939 my parents did a lot of
68
renovation to the house, not really changing it but just updating it, and the
glass tile is one of the things that they installed at that time.
WILLIAMS: I’m not sure everybody knows where you live. You’re a native, also, so . . .
WARR: Yes, I live over around the corner. Do most of you know where Sue Gentry
lives, by any chance? We’re in the gray house next to Sue Gentry’s. Okay,
so when you’re on your walking tours, why, wave as you go by. [laughter]
It’s the house with all that green grass that my husband manages.
[laughter] I don’t take any credit for that except staying out of the way and
not walking across it any more than necessary.
HODUSKI: Is there a story with the drinking fountain?
WARR: Yes, it’s kind of fun. The home we lived in before, of course we had an
icebox when I was very small, and then later we had a refrigerator with the
big coils on top—you’ve seen pictures of them with the big coils. Why
don’t you pass those to people as I fill them? And my dad always liked to
have ice water, so he ran coils, copper coils through that old refrigerator and
put just an old-fashioned spigot on the outside so that he could always have
ice water, and with the next refrigerator he did the same thing. Then, when
we moved in here, he said, “Now I can have what I really want”—which
was a water fountain—“so I can always have cold water.” And nowadays,
why, they have them on the refrigerator. But that was how come.
HODUSKI: So was that right next to where the refrigerator was?
WARR: Yes, the refrigerator was there and the stove, of course, was over here. But
they replaced all of the kitchen cabinets in ’39—that was all new—and put
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in a dishwasher and a disposal at that time. Those were very, very new
things to have in 1939.
WILLIAMS: This green looks familiar. [chuckling] Did somebody mention that at the
party?
WARR: [chuckling] Yes. It was always white until a couple years before Mother
died, and then she said, “I’m kind of tired of all that white.” She loved
color. She said, “I think I’d like to paint it green.” So it was a hard shade
to match. [laughter] But this was the best they could come up with, and it
isn’t too different, is it?
HODUSKI: No.
WARR: So I guess people in those days just plain liked green—I mean on Delaware
just plain liked green. How are we doing here? One more? We’re gonna
make it. The others are ready for a refill by now.
SCOTT STONE: When was the house built?
WARR: Well, the basement was poured in August—I think it says August 1913
down there. Is that everybody?
ALL: I reckon so. Thank you.
WARR: Okay. All right, you’re welcome, and help yourselves. There’s another jug
in here if you’d like more. I have always said that the house was occupied
in 1915, and that’s probably about right. . . . It probably took a year and a
half to build the house, more than likely, with all the stone, the stone
foundation and everything, so it dates back quite a while at this point.
REGINA KLEIN: So they must have quarried locally all the stone, I would imagine.
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WARR: Yes, this is Missouri limestone.
HODUSKI: Was it hard to heat?
WARR: No, not really, not with those thick walls. If you notice, it’s strange, there’s
a stone wall here, and I don’t quite know why because the kitchen is stone
also on the outside. But when you see the thickness of those walls, you
realize how it holds the cool and it holds the heat in the winter. So it really
was not hard to heat, and the steam heat is very, very efficient, very quiet.
Oh, occasionally you get knocking pipes, but it’s quiet and it’s so clean,
you know. You just don’t get the dust that you do with the other. Now, if
you’d like to look out there, that’s the breakfast room. You may have to
kind of file through, but you’re already used to that. [laughter] Yes, Jim, I
brought the scrapbooks. You might want to take a minute and look and see
if there’s anything you want. Then I have a little group of clippings that I
have duplicates of that you may take.
WILLIAMS: That’s great.
WARR: It has a little bit of everything in it. Margaret sent letters from the White
House and the Trumans at different times, and these are things that aren’t
in anybody else’s files, so you might like to look and see if you want to
make copies of anything. That’s the way the house looked when it had
all the flowers when my parents were alive, and they decorated at
Christmas and had lights like the little one back there. This was my dad
cutting the grass, as he used to do totally himself.
DELBERT JOHNSON: How long did he have the pop company, the bottling company?
71
WARR: Well, he bought the bottling company—it was already functioning—in
1923, and then he sold it to his brothers-in-law in the forties, and in ’57 it
went out of business. One of the brothers died, and at that point it just
wasn’t reasonable to keep it.
D. JOHNSON: How far did they merchandise the . . .
WARR: They merchandised all of Jackson County, and a little beyond in some
cases. But it was kind of interesting because he had an agreement with
Kansas City bottlers, and particularly with Coke, that if they didn’t come
out here, he wouldn’t go into Kansas City.
D. JOHNSON: Oh, is that right?
WARR: So he really had a monopoly for many, many years out here. Well, by the
time the fifties came along, why, nobody was paying attention to that.
Coke was doing a lot of national advertising, and so at that point their
business was down some. He also had a beer distributorship. Right after
Prohibition he got the beer distributorship for Goetz Brewery, which was in
St. Joseph, and marketed Goetz Beer.
WILLIAMS: But Polly’s Pop was the best, right?
WARR: That’s what everybody says. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: And the plant was just down on River.
WARR: The plant was just down here on River, just off of Truman Road, and if you
look, the little Polly’s Pop Park is right up there by where the plant used to
be. And there’s a spring down there that they originally used for bottling,
and then later when they had city water, more city water available, why, he
72
only used the spring water for washing down the plant and that kind of
thing. But for years people still came and got water down at the spring. It
was one of the best springs—the one at the mill and the one that’s not really
good tasting is still real spring water over here. [laughter] And in going
through his clippings here the other day, I came across the one because it
was a whole article on springs, and they said . . . And it was written
because they had just finished restoring down there, and they talk about the
spring water, that it’s flowing again, you know. [chuckling] And many
years later we find out that it’s city water. [laughter]
You’ll want to look at the stained-glass window. It’s kind of fun
because it’s back-lighted. If you’ll watch when I turn it off and turn the
chandelier back on, they come on across the top, so it’s still pretty at night.
WILLIAMS: They thought of everything.
WARR: Yes, Daddy was really very creative, and Mother liked to decorate, and I
think it shows. She had help, also. But this was the scene of many a big
family dinner, and then, at one time . . . I’ve told Jim and Scott about this,
when Mr. Truman became president and he was coming back home and he
wanted to play poker with the boys. And they didn’t really think their
poker club was quite nice enough for the President of the United States,
[chuckling] so they decided to have it here, and so they played poker
around the dining room table when he was here that time.
This is the den. This was where we really lived, in this room. If we
can get everybody on in I’ll show you the pocket doors, because they’re so
73
unusual. . .
ALL: Oh, wow! Oh, beautiful. Neat!
WARR: Aren’t they gorgeous? I’ve never seen any as pretty anyplace else.
WILLIAMS: We’ll chip in and buy them.
ALL: [laughter]
WARR: Well, they really are a treasure, I think.
WILLIAMS: We could have a dormitory for park rangers.
WARR: [chuckling] Okay. If you can sell the park department, I’ll sell. [laughter]
It’s for sale. [chuckling] Those were my maternal grandparents’ things.
These were my grandmother’s and these were my grandfather’s.
HODUSKI: So are these similar to these pocket doors, or are these hollow?
WARR: These are just hollow. Just oak panels. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: And they work, even with the carpeting, unlike the Trumans’.
WARR: Oh, theirs don’t work?
WILLIAMS: No.
HODUSKI: After the carpeting went in.
WARR: I have a feeling that they had these worked on, but I don’t know that. And
the living room.
WARR: Yes, and that is original, I’m sure. Many of the light fixtures are not
original in the house. That one is. And the foyer.
HODUSKI: I love this bench.
WARR: Yes, and that’s the only place they didn’t put storage. This house has lots
of storage. This is a little powder room. You know, when the ladies used
74
to come in would like to stop and take off their hats and fix their hair and
powder their nose, and then reverse it before they went out. [chuckling]
TINNIN: I like bathrooms. I’ve got to look at this one. That’s kind of cute.
WARR: I had somebody ask me the other day, “Well, what would you use a powder
room for?” [chuckling] All the closet doors have beveled-glass mirrors,
and they’re original. I think those windows are pretty, too. Then you want
to notice this one back up here. Then there’s just the deep closets here
behind that. We won’t go into every closet. [chuckling] And then you go
up . . . And you heard the doorbell, couldn’t miss it, could you? One of the
kind of interesting things is that originally there’s a half stair back here just
at the landing from that little hall, and all the woodwork is oak on this side
of that back stairway, and they have the same stained-glass windows, but
that is pine. [chuckling] The servants didn’t get oak, they just got pine.
TINNIN: Was that the servants’ room then?
WARR: I assume it was a back way for them to come and go.
STEPHANIE DICE: Did they have live-in help?
WARR: Did my parents have help? When there were six of us living in here. My
grandmother and a young uncle lived with us, and so Mother had help a
good part of the time. Then after those two were gone there were just the
four of us.
TINNIN: Just once a week?
WARR: Just once a week. But she was a very meticulous housekeeper. Everything
was kept just so. Just go on in and look: the blue bedroom.
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CAROL DAGE: This is nice.
WARR: The central hall is nice, isn’t it?
WILLIAMS: Karen found another bathroom.
WARR: [chuckling] I know who’s in the bathroom.
KLEIN: This is so nice. Usually, these older houses, they have all these odd ways of
getting into bedrooms, and this is so nicely set up.
HODUSKI: Which bedroom was yours?
WARR: This one.
HODUSKI: This one.
WILLIAMS: The green and pink.
WARR: It wasn’t green and pink then. [laughter] That’s a later addition. But you
can see how big the closets are, and each one is a little different. It has
some little built-ins of some kind in every one.
K. JOHNSON: How many bedrooms have we got?
WARR: Four bedrooms and a sleeping porch.
HOUDSKI: So did you have to share a bedroom then ever?
WARR: I didn’t. I was the eldest, and I had one sister, and briefly, until my
grandmother died, they shared the other room. My uncle had the room over
there, and my parents had the master. Now that’s birch. One of my aunts
did that painting. I really think it’s paint-by-number, but [unintelligible].
[laughter]
KLEIN: Yes, it is.
WARR: I’ll let you all look at that. [chuckling]
76
KLEIN: Karen, have you seen this?
WARR: This was the master bedroom.
JEFF WADE: When is the last time someone lived in the house?
WARR: Actually lived here? It’s been about five and a half years. We had our
fiftieth high school reunion this spring and so I had two couples staying
here. We had four couples, out of town guests, and I couldn’t house eight
people with us, so I put some of them over here, and they seemed to enjoy
it. And this is the other bath.
KLEIN: Oh, my!
WARR: The sleeping porch. Most houses the age of this house . . . and in this style,
had a sleeping porch.
TINNIN: We like this one. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: It’s a little bit bigger than the Trumans’.
WARR: Nice and bright.
KLEIN: I love these bright windows.
STONE: It’s slightly larger than the one at the Truman home.
WILLIAMS: And you don’t have to crawl out a window.
HODUSKI: You don’t have to crawl out the window to get into it.
TINNIN: I’ll take this one, too. I like this room, too.
WILLIAMS: You can see all the neighbors from back here.
ALL: [chuckling] Yes.
WARR: A view of everything, and we’re going to be able to see the new temple
tower, too, when it’s complete.
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D. JOHNSON: How many total bedrooms do you have?
WARR: Pardon me?
D. JOHNSON: How many total bedrooms do you have?
WARR: Four bedrooms and a sleeping porch.
WILLIAMS: Which could sleep lots of kids.
WARR: Several, right. [chuckling] There’s no heat out there but today that
wouldn’t be a problem. There is a laundry chute right along in here where
Jim’s standing someplace, and when Mother had an . . . Mother had an area
rug she’d just toss it back and put the laundry down the chute. Those little
things are speaking tubes over there, one to the front door and one to the
kitchen, where someone could talk and say, “Dinner’s ready,” or “Come up
here and make your bed,” or . . . [chuckling] whatever the message of the
day was.
DICE: Do they still work?
WARR: They still work, to a certain extent. You know, it’s not quite like an
electronic one, but they do work. You can hear. You have to speak up.
[chuckling] That’s a linen closet right there behind you all. I’ll go out to
the hall. This small room right here. And this is the way they cooled the
house with the big exhaust fan.
TINNIN: It’s nice and cool.
WILLIAMS: This would be so great for a big family.
WARR: Yes, it really cries for a big family. [inaudible miscellaneous conversation]
HODUSKI: The park service could buy it.
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WARR: Well, I think it’s on the acquisition list for, what is it, plan five or something
like that? [chuckling] There’s a little sitting room and another bedroom.
All cedar closets.
STONE: Cedar closets, wow! My gosh!
WILLIAMS: And what did you do up here?
WARR: We had parties.
HODUSKI: That’s wonderful.
WARR: Teenage parties.
WILLIAMS: With lots of pop?
WARR: Yes, in fact that I won’t attribute to my friends. One of our first parties up
here when my sister was in junior high or high school, we had soda pop
always, of course, and one of her friends shook the bottle with her thumb on
it and then, whee! My parents weren’t real thrilled about that spot on the
ceiling.
HODUSKI: Was it grape?
WARR: Probably, or cream maybe. [chuckling] The panel goes onto the fan during
the winter and that way you don’t have all your heat escaping up here, and
of course it looks better when you’re entertaining. Not too warm for a hot
day up here.
HODUSKI: No, it’s nice.
WILLIAMS: Well, they’ve managed to keep it in very good condition.
WARR: Yes, they took good care of it.
WILLIAMS: It’s certainly not a fixer-upper.
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WARR: No, I think that’s the problem with selling it. When people look at a big
home, they think, “Oh, we’ll go in and we’ll buy it for next to nothing and
we’ll fix it up.” And this isn’t a fixer-upper, you know, and I’d rather not
sell it for a fixer-upper.
HODUSKI: Right. May I ask what you’re asking for it?
WARR: You may. You no doubt get that question sometimes.
HODUSKI: All the time, all the time.
WARR: Yes, I don’t mind telling you. You might always preface it by “the last I
heard . . .” [laughter] $155,000.
HODUSKI: I’m surprised you haven’t had a taker.
WARR: We are, too. We really are. What do you say about the house when you go
by? Who wants to give me a tour?
KLEIN: I talk about Polly Compton.
HODUSKI: I talk about Polly and that he was one of Mr. Truman’s friends and a poker
buddy.
WARR: Poker buddies, yes.
HODUSKI: Yes. I talk about Polly’s Pop. I talk about your dad not being very fond of
pigeons.
WARR: Right.
HODUSKI: I point up to the cages in the eaves. And is it true that he used to shoot the
pigeons off the Truman home?
WARR: Oh, yes, that’s kind of a fun story, too.
HODUSKI: I mention that, too.
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WARR: They were disturbed by the pigeons, and he knew they were, and so he
talked with Mr. Truman about it, and yes, he’d like it if Daddy could do
away with them. Now, he shot them, you know. So the first time he went
down there with his gun, [chuckling] the Secret Service went into total
shock. [laughter] So then they checked with Mr. Truman and he said, no,
this was what he wanted, that they were to do that.
TINNIN: What year would that have been?
WARR: Oh, probably soon after they came back, I would imagine. And so, from
then on, if he walked by he’d just wave. Otherwise, when he got so it was
hard for him to walk that far, he’d drive down, and he’d just stop in front of
the Secret Service house over there, just beep his horn and keep on going
back down the alley and take care of the pigeons from the backyard.
[chuckling] But I thought it was really . . . And he got a big laugh out of
that.
HODUSKI: Now, Mary Sue Luff was telling us that your dad liked to joke, liked
practical jokes.
WARR: Yes, he did.
HODUSKI: And that a lot of times the kids here in Independence would direct people to
the wrong home when they asked for the Truman home. She said on many
occasions this home was confused with the Truman home.
WARR: Yes, it often was confused.
HODUSKI: And she mentioned that your dad would oftentimes just stick his hand out
and wave. [laughter]
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WARR: With what their size, if you look at the pictures, and the profile even,
they’re not unalike. They were both short men, rather stocky build in their
younger days, both of them. Of course, much frailer in their later years, and
they were not unalike, and he thought it was funny, you know. But if
anyone asked him, as people sometimes did, why, of course he told them
that’s the president’s house and I’m not . . . [chuckling] But he enjoyed
that very much. You all have your stories pretty well up-to-date, I’d say.
[chuckling] Well, shall we go down? [inaudible miscellaneous
conversation – someone asks about square footage]
WILLIAMS: That’s a little bit less than half [of the Truman home]. Do you count the
basement in that?
WARR: No.
WILLIAMS: Is that 44,000?
WARR: No, 4,480 [square footage in the house].
STONE: Thank you.
WARR: Well, what is the Truman home, do you know?
WILLIAMS: I think it’s close to 10,000, but that includes the basement.
WARR: I suspect it does, don’t you.
WILLIAMS: Every time that somebody asks, I look, and then I can’t remember if it does
include the basement or not.
STONE: This seems so much larger than the Truman home.
WARR: Yes, it does, doesn’t it. Well, I’ve not been upstairs in the Truman home in
many, many years, so I . . . you know, I’m not real . . . Now you’re
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welcome to see the basement, if you want to, but it is just a basement. You
can turn right and go right down there.
HODUSKI: So they didn’t finish the basement then?
WARR: No. I’ll get ahead of you here and turn on some other lights.
WILLIAMS: You should say that you’re not allowed to see the basement.
WARR: Now, originally, the house had a central vacuum cleaner in it, which I think
is quite remarkable for 1915.
HODUSKI: Yes, indeed.
WARR: Mother used it for quite a while and then decided that she . . . Well, I think
it broke down and she didn’t want it replaced. It was a great big tank that
sat right there with a big motor, so the pipes are all still in, and with
people’s affinity for them these days, I suppose they could put one back in.
And they tell me they’re just little things that hang on the wall now,
probably with a very strong motor even so. Watch your head, Jim.
[laughter] And this is the last of the stories. The old coal bin. Well, you
know, Dad in his later years made pine cone wreaths. There’s a picture in
here we can show you, or a better one upstairs, and he did them by the
hundreds, and for many years gave them away to his friends. And then he
didn’t run out of friends but they ran out of space for all the things he gave
them, so he started selling them to Halls on the Plaza for their Christmas
shop, and for ten years he supplied them with those things. Then he got a
little tired of meeting deadlines, and so he just really marketed them very
quietly out of the basement here. But that’s what all these shelves held. By
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November they would be full of pine cone wreaths, nut wreaths, trees, bells,
all kinds of things that he built, and then Christmas night, after everything
had quieted down, he’d be back down here in the basement starting over.
Many, many times when he couldn’t sleep, he’d be up at 4:00 in the
morning and down here working on wreaths.
I think one of the funnier stories is that they made a big thing out of
Christmas. It was a big occasion, and he’d work harder and harder the
closer it would get. Mother bought for a lot of extended family, and
wrapped gifts beautifully, and she’d do that in the north bedroom up there.
And one evening he’d been down here working and she’d been up there
working, and I guess they both decided to check on one another, just to be
friendly, you know, since they hadn’t seen one another for a few hours.
She came down; he went up. How they missed one another I don’t know.
[laughter] They never did find one another. They just each went back to
their own tasks. It seems somebody went to the back stair and somebody
went to the front. [chuckling]
STONE: Where was the coal chute then?
WARR: Well, it’s kind of . . .
STONE: Oh, there we go.
WARR: If you stand back, you can see it across the top there.
STONE: Okay.
WARR: When we moved in, they used coke in the furnace—you know, smaller
round things, sort of, and they had a conveyor belt that carried it from here
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and directly into the furnace. So nobody had to tend the furnace.
[inaudible miscellaneous conversation]
WILLIAMS: The ceiling is a little bit better than the Trumans’.
STONE: Looks like the whole basement is almost.
WILLIAMS: Regina and I don’t have to stoop.
KLEIN: Yes, in the Truman basement would knock our heads off.
WARR: Yes, isn’t this a deep basement?
HODUSKI: Yes, it is.
WARR: We’re seeing the stone foundation. Yes, that’s one of the pictures. A
couple of pictures on the other side of the pillar there.
DAGE: In one oral history I recall, someone had mentioned that he invited them,
Mr. Compton, to come and make selections from the things that he had
made.
WARR: Yes, that’s right. He was a very generous, giving person. He made ice
cream, gallons at a time. You know, he gave the ice cream, always took ice
cream to the Trumans, and particularly the chocolate because he knew Mrs.
Truman really loved her chocolate. And when Margaret was home, he
made sure there was extra chocolate ice cream because Margaret likes
chocolate, too [see appendix, items 8-11]. [chuckling]
HODUSKI: Were you in her same class, or . . . ?
WARR: We’re almost the same age. I’m just a couple of months older than she, but
my birthday is January 6 and the cutoff date for the class was January 15, so
I was a year ahead of her.
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HODUSKI: So you were a grade ahead of her.
WARR: A grade ahead of her, yes.
HODUSKI: Because I remember once we talked and you were telling me that you
talked to Margaret and that she had told you she was having some problem
with her publisher or something, her book publisher.
WARR: Yes. [chuckling]
HODUSKI: I was curious how far back your relationship . . .
[End #4332; Begin #4333]
WILLIAMS: And you still stay in touch with her, right?
WARR: Yes, we still hear back and forth. I haven’t talked to her for probably six
weeks, something like that. Mostly these days it’s about the Bess Truman
Award, since I serve on that committee and we . . .
DICE: When is the next one coming out?
WARR: It’ll be next May. We have decided to do it every two years rather than
annually. Margaret was very much in favor of that. She felt that annually
was a little too much and too often. And she . . . Is that still going?
WILLIAMS: It doesn’t have to be. [tape turned off]
WARR: It’s just that there’s no doubt that that was the most outstanding person. No
matter who we ask, that would have been the one, and we’re very fortunate
to have her and I think we’re going to do very well next year. It’s
underway . . .
HODUSKI: Can I ask you, is the award limited to those in political and public office?
WARR: No, not at all.
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HODUSKI: It could include women of literature and art and so forth and so on?
WARR: Right, right, and we would hope from time to time that that would be true.
WILLIAMS: Mystery writers or something. [laughter]
WARR: Right, and that may be sometime, you know. It would not be inappropriate
to have Margaret, I would think, at some time . . . But we felt it would be
inappropriate in the very beginning perhaps . . .
DICE: So how do you search for this person? Do you ever take nominations, or
. . . ?
WARR: We’re always happy to hear from people. Strangely enough, we did
publicize that the first time, and some people did write to us who had seen
in the paper that we were glad to have suggestions. But they were all for
people . . . Even though it said “national award,” they were all local, and
people were complaining, actually, a little bit, that they felt it should be a
local award. They knew it was national, they just felt it should be local, and
we said she was a national figure. And that does not say that we couldn’t
have a local person receive it, but that was not the purpose of the award.
WILLIAMS: Do you consider international people?
WARR: No, we say national. We talked about that a long time, and, you know,
Margaret Thatcher would be wonderful. [laughter] And there are other
women, really, in places of prominence in other countries almost more than
there are here, presidents of other countries or prime ministers and such, but
we felt that it really should be a national and not an international award.
That doesn’t say it won’t ever change, but for the time being that’s it. So
87
we’ll look forward to seeing . . .
DICE: So was that the first award last year?
WARR: That was the first award, yes, in 1990. And with the war and the problems
involved and the person we asked, it just was not . . . We’d just never could
quite get it tied down—I suppose some of the same difficulties that the
Truman Award was having.
HODUSKI: Yes, that was unfortunate.
WARR: Yes, but we’re going to do better this year. [chuckling] Are you ready to
go up? Go ahead. [sounds of footsteps ascending stairs]
WARR: Anybody like more lemonade? If you have any questions, I’ll try to
answer.
D. JOHNSON: I don’t believe I have any. This has been a real nice tour. I appreciate that.
TINNIN: It’s really lovely, really nice.
STONE: Yes, this is really nice.
TINNIN: Now we know what to tell people about the home. [laughter] And they
can’t have it until we go get our lottery tickets and win. [laughter]
WARR: Okay. You might tell the ones who didn’t get to come today that I’d be
happy to do it again sometime. And Regina in particular, I’m sorry she
couldn’t be here. So if someone wants to come another time, I will set it up
if I can do it.
KLEIN: We really appreciate it.
WARR: Alright.
WILLIAMS: I think two others are on vacation, and I’m sure they would like to see it.
88
WARR: Well, we can do that.
WILLIAMS: It might be useful if you mention how often the Trumans were here, other
than the poker game that you mentioned.
WARR: Oh, you want me to tell some of those? [chuckling] All right. We had our
son’s wedding reception here. Well, they were married here, right in front
of that window, and that was all banked with ferns and things so the
radiator didn’t show. [chuckling] But it was just a small, family wedding
and then we had a large reception, and of course the Trumans were invited.
This was in 1968 and I really don’t remember whether Mr. Truman was not
feeling well or may have been gone. I sort of have the feeling that he
wasn’t feeling very well. Anyway, Mrs. Truman did come and friends of
ours were pouring the champagne and mixing around through the group.
So Dr. Sam Wilson, who lived over on Union Street, said to Mrs. Truman,
“May I pour you some champagne, Mrs. Truman?” And she said, “No,
thanks, I’m walking.” [laughter] She had a sense of humor, and as I’ve
told Scott and Jim, I really don’t think people realize how funny she could
be.
And another time . . . They always sent a poinsettia or some kind of
a plant at Christmas to my parents, and the scrapbook out there is full of
little notes from Mrs. Truman and from Mr. Truman thanking for the ice
cream and the tomatoes in the summer and those things. Anyway, she had
called Mother—I don’t know whether to thank or inquire how they were
feeling or what. They were not really quite contemporaries. Mother and
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Daddy were several years younger than they and they didn’t socialize as the
Trumans did, to a certain extent. Mother wasn’t a bridge player, but they
would visit as neighbors might on the phone. So she called one time and
said . . . The weather had been so bad, and Mother had asked then how
were they, and she said, “Oh, we’re all right, we’re going to Florida.” And
Mother knowing that she didn’t like to fly and really didn’t like to travel
particularly, said, “Oh, are you dreading the trip?” And she said, “Oh no.”
She said, “We’ve been closed in so with the weather and Harry not feeling
well that if someone asked me to go to hell, I’d say yes.” [laughter] I’m
sure it surprised Mother considerably. [laughter]
WILLIAMS: So much for the idea that they liked to stay in Independence. [chuckling]
WARR: Right at that point anyway. But they weren’t here often. My parents didn’t
entertain, except family, very much. We did have one very large tea one
time, and I would have to get out the book and look, but unless she were ill
. . . I know she was invited and she probably was here.
HODUSKI: Were your parents guests in their home very often?
WARR: No. Daddy was in and out more when he’d take the ice cream. In fact, one
of the notes in the book, I think, says something about . . . Well, he would
often just go and hand it either to the Secret Service man, the ice cream or
the tomatoes or whatever, and ask them to take them in, or to the back door
to Vietta or whoever was around, you know. And in the note Mrs. Truman
said something about, “I’m always happy to see you, and I want to see you
when you come, so please come in.” And that was in their later years when
90
I’m sure that a visit was appreciated. But he would sometimes sit out on
the back porch with them and visit or visit out in the yard with Mr. Truman
when he’d be outside, which he was.
HODUSKI: Well, the impression I’ve gotten is that they had developed such a
reputation for privacy that people were very hesitant to disturb them at
home.
WARR: I think to a certain extent that is true. I noticed also . . . I had told you the
story about the baby buggy and . . .
WILLIAMS: I was just going to mention that.
WARR: When Margaret started coming home and bringing babies with her, why,
each time Mrs. Truman would call on the phone to me—and she called me
“Tot” as Margaret and most people of that age did, my nickname—and
she’d say, “Tot?” And I’d know immediately who it was because her voice
was distinctive, you know, and I’d say, “Yes, Mrs. Truman?” And she’d
say, “Margaret’s coming. May we borrow the baby buggy?” And I’d say,
“Of course, I’ll send it around.” So we’d scrub up the baby buggy and
scrub up the children—the children would take it around. And she’d
always invite them in, by the way. That’s the way she was. She was a real
lady. And I had told you I always sort of hoped I’d see him wheeling it
back on his morning walk. [chuckling] But apparently he did a time or so
bring it here, because there was a thank-you note to them for the baby
buggy and it said, “Harry will be wheeling it around someday soon.”
[laughter] So I guess he did.
91
WILLIAMS: They needed that to sleep in?
WARR: Yes, the newest baby was always in the baby buggy. The others would
move into a crib or something. I think maybe they still had a crib. I really
don’t think they used the baby buggy for the first one, but after that, then
they needed someplace for the latest one to sleep. [chuckling] I wish I’d
kept it. The Truman Library might have liked to have had it, don’t you
think? [laughter] It’s been gone a while. Any other questions? Anything
else, Jim? You know better than I what might be of interest.
HODUSKI: I’m curious, the Trumans’ neighbors, were they as . . . Well, I hate to use
the word “nonchalant,” but I mean, was it just normal to them as it seems to
have been to you?
WARR: Oh, I think so. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. Shall I tell them
the President Johnson story? [chuckling] It was always sort of interesting
to us when various notables would come to visit, and often we knew they
were coming, though usually you didn’t have much notice when a president
was coming, though you had more notice then than you would now. You
know how they come and don’t let anybody know until they’re practically
on the doorstep. So we were all interested. We’d hear the sirens, and we’d
look to see the president that was coming, or secretary of state or whoever.
And one time we knew President Johnson was coming in. I often came
over and stood out here on the porch or wherever I could get a good view
and look. And I just couldn’t get away to come, but I came later in the day,
and Daddy was working out in the yard, as he did most of the time in good
92
weather. And I said, “Daddy, did you see President Johnson?” Well, my
dad hadn’t been very happy with President Johnson, as many people
weren’t, as you know, in those later years, and he said, “No. I didn’t look
up.” The ultimate insult, right? [laughter]
WILLIAMS: He wasn’t a Democrat, your father?
WARR: Oh, yes, my father was a Democrat, but he just wasn’t happy with President
Johnson. As you know, President Johnson didn’t seek another term
because people weren’t happy with him.
HODUSKI: Was it mostly the war?
WARR: I think to a great extent. But yes, I think they were just accepted in this
neighborhood, for the most part. Respected, highly respected, but not made
much of. You know, it was not unusual to look out the window and see
him walking by, and you just . . . It became very usual.
WILLIAMS: Is it any different now that we’re here? Does it seem any more or less . . .
WARR: It’s busier. [laughter] No, there was always a lot of traffic by the house,
even before it came to you all—in a way, maybe almost more people
hoping to catch a glimpse, you know. And traffic could be a problem.
Traffic is less of a problem now that the place is up there and it’s controlled.
Why, it really is not, and there used to be . . . It seems to me there used to
be more buses going by; I don’t know whether I just haven’t happened to
see them as much or not. They park down around in here someplace and
people get out and walk around. But you all do a good job, and I enjoy
seeing who’s on duty which days. [laughter] And you had a big crowd last
93
night.
HODUSKI: Yes, that was fun taking those ladies. It was mostly ladies there.
WARR: Yes, I noticed there were a lot of women.
TINNIN: I had all the men, I think, on my tour. [laughter]
HODUSKI: Well, that figures. [laughter]
WARR: Did you have three van loads or more?
HODUSKI: More than that.
KLEIN: I think we had three vans, a carload, and some others.
WARR: I think I saw the three vans when I was walking, so I wondered. Now,
these are people who will be going other . . .
HODUSKI: They’re from all over the park system.
WILLIAMS: They’re here for an administrative training course at Crown Center.
WARR: I see.
HODUSKI: Kansas City is such a central location, I think the park service will start
using it more. They’ve done the VIP training here and a number of others.
WARR: I see. Well, it is easy access and it probably cuts their expenses a little bit.
HODUSKI: I imagine. Probably the hotel rentals are cheaper here than most other
metropolitan areas, too.
WARR: Well, that’s probably true, and I would think they’d give them a nice break
besides. [chuckling] Well, if any of you want to look at the notebook, and
if Jim has two minutes I want him to look and see if there’s some stuff he
needs to go with what he already has.
D. JOHNSON: We’re going to need to go, though. We appreciate your hospitality.
94
DAGE: Yes, thank you very much.
WARR: I’ve enjoyed having you.
DAGE: It’s been a real pleasure. Thank you.
WARR: It’s always nice. You all are so friendly, and I enjoy visiting with
everybody.
TINNIN: We’ll see you when you walk by. [laughter]
WARR: That’s right, walk or drive.
HODUSKI: Or drive by. [laughter]
TINNIN: You’ve got to honk at me, though. [laughter] I have a vision problem, so
I’m not being snotty or anything. So don’t wave at me and think I’m being
a snot.
WARR: All right. Well, you all attend to business pretty well anyway, so I don’t
expect a big hi every time I go by. [chuckling] Those tourists are
important and they need your full attention, so that’s fine.
HODUSKI: At least you drive slow enough by we can see you. Sue Gentry goes by . . .
[laughter]
KLEIN: It’s like, oh, see that lady zipping by? [laughter]
DICE: Yes, it was. She’ll be back in a couple of minutes. [laughter]
WARR: She does get around. She worries me a little. Whenever we’re going
someplace, I drive. [laughter]
HODUSKI: I don’t blame you.
WARR: And she likes to be chauffeured, anyway, so that’s not a problem. But she’s
a grand lady. And talk about stories, she has the best of all of them.
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TINNIN: She is. She’s a neat lady.
WARR: Knows everything and never forgets anything. A wonderful memory.
Well, you all are probably wanting to get to your dinner. [laughter]
STONE: Thanks again.
ALL: Thank you, goodbye.
WARR: Goodnight.
STONE: Nice to see you again.
WARR: Nice to see you, Scott.
STONE: And the lemonade was really good.
WARR: Oh, thank you.
WARR: Do you want to look? Anybody who wants to may.
WILLIAMS: I forgot to take your picture the other day. Would you mind if I . . .
WARR: Oh, I didn’t know I was supposed to have my picture taken. [chuckling]
WILLIAMS: We’d like it to go along with the tapes so people know . . . Is there a
favorite place in the house?
END OF INTERVIEW