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Podcast

Headwaters

Glacier, Interpretation, Education, and Volunteers Directorate, Natural Resource Stewardship and Science Directorate, Climate Change Response Program

Headwaters is a show about how Glacier National Park is connected to everything else.

Episodes

Season 3

Episode 8

Becoming | Landowners

Transcript

Lacy Kowalski: Headwaters is brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

[car noise]

Michael Faist: [talking to himself] Nachos, restaurant and bar, 500 feet. Home ranch bottoms.

Daniel Lombardi: This August, on a hot summer day, Michael and Peri went on a field trip.

Flannery Freund: Oh cool. Hey guys!

Michael: [to Flannery] Hello! We were able to borrow some of your time today…

Flannery: Yeah.

Daniel: They drove up to the North Fork to meet Flannery.

Flannery: My name is Flannery Freund, and I co-own the Home Ranch Bottoms, a bar and restaurant here in the North Fork.

Daniel: Flannery used to work as a ranger in Polebridge, Glacier's remote northwest entrance. But she's also part of the tight knit, off-grid community that lives just outside the park.

Michael: [to Flannery] What is the community like up here?

Flannery: It's small. It's the type of place where you there's different political persuasions, but you help each other change your tires. And you—we're all like surviving up here.

Michael: [to Flannery] So for somebody who's never been to the North Fork before, how would you describe it?

Flannery: You know, I feel like what's kind of cool as you journey up here that the essence of civilization just kind of trickles off of you. The pavement ends and then soon after, the cell phone service ends. I love witnessing people experiencing this place for the first time because it's totally awe-striking. That there's not that many places left without pavement, without cell phone service.

Michael: [to Flannery] When did you come to the North Fork?

Flannery: I arrived... Well, the first time I came here was October of 2008. I went camping up at Quartz Lake and it happened to be ten degrees that night. I definitely was intrigued. [both laugh] And then I moved here full time in May of 2009.

Michael: [to Flannery] All right. That next year.

Flannery: That next year. Yep. Knew nothing about the community. Knew nothing about how special and intact this place was. Except that you feel that innately, that's something else that, like, you know, this place is wild.

Daniel: As a resident and president of the North Fork Preservation Association, Flannery works to preserve this area's rugged history. And as a baker, she makes a mean huckleberry peach pie, sharing a slice of North Fork life with those who pass through.

Michael: [to Flannery] Pie is your jam here. Why pie?

Flannery: I have to bake. We're a bar with a baking problem. [both laugh] And pie is charming. Pie is Montana. Pie has homestead vibes. You know, that's... That's why pie.

[Headwaters season 3 theme begins playing; starting with mandolin, then a drumbeat, a flute line, and other instruments layer in before the music finishes]

Daniel: What is the magnetic force that pulls people through history? Is it the dream of power and profit? Or is history moved by other, more benevolent forces, like the basic human longing for community, or dreams of leaving behind a better world for future generations? Welcome to Headwaters, a show about how Glacier National Park is connected to everything else. You're listening to Season Three. This episode is about the impact of homesteading on Northwest Montana, an era when incompatible dreams clashed like the opposing ends of a magnet. The promise of a new frontier and a promise left empty—a million acres set aside by the government only to be sold off to eager buyers.

Michael: We're setting out to understand homesteading as a policy, and more personally, as seen through the eyes of early Montanans. But let's start with the Homestead Act.

Jim Muhn: Everybody thinks it's so simple, but it gets so complicated.

Michael: This is Jim Muhn.

Jim: Former land law historian with the Bureau of Land Management.

Michael: Jim said homesteading starts with a concept called the public domain, which is basically a term for lands owned by the U.S. government.

Jim: National land to be disposed of in the national interest.

Michael: In the 1800s, the young United States was looking to expand, adding to the public domain through acquisitions like the Louisiana Purchase. Some would use the term Manifest Destiny to describe this era, arguing that the United States was divinely destined to expand. Others, even at the time, pushed back against that, labeling it as conquest. But the government's motives, at least initially, for these acquisitions, were practical.

Jim: Well, the national government understood that there was this pioneer spirit, that the country was always going to keep expanding. So they understood that. But their main concern when the public domain was first created was: they needed money.

Michael: France and Spain helped fund the Revolutionary War, and the U.S. government still needed to settle the debt.

Jim: They decided that the best thing to do would be to sell the public domain. And when they did that, they weren't really concerned about the average settler. They sold to land speculators or other moneyed interests. They sold large parcels of land.

Michael: [to Jim] Gotcha.

Jim: But this is like a big piggy bank that you can use to develop the country from there.

Michael: From there, for our story anyway, two things happened. The first was that people didn't care if land on the frontier was available for them to buy. They were settling on it anyway—squatting essentially—and not paying a dime. And the second was that for many politicians, their dream of a successful America was a country filled with small, privately owned farms.

Jim: I think the agrarian ideal for America can be traced back to people like Thomas Jefferson. They felt that the farmer was the average American.

Michael: Even the units that we use to measure land, like acres, are rooted in agriculture. Acres were invented in the Middle Ages to describe the area one farmer could plow in one day with a team of oxen.

Jim: I mean, you can only have so many shopkeepers. But you needed lots of farmers.

Michael: Finally, an idea was hatched that claimed to answer both of these things at once. If the government offered everyday people parcels of land for free (ish), they could fill the west with farms and curtail unlawful settlement. Two birds; one stone. But it wasn't without its opponents.

Jim: One of the underlying issues there is slavery. If you populate Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas with small farmers, the place for slave holdings is kind of disappearing.

Michael: The fact that small farms wouldn't require slaves meant that some saw homesteading as a way to keep slavery out of the frontier and expand the power of free states. Slaveholding senators opposed the idea as if it were an existential threat. But by the time the Civil War began, there were a lot of empty seats on Capitol Hill. And the Homestead Act was passed.

Jim: It was passed May 20th, 1862, signed into law by Abraham Lincoln.

Michael: All of a sudden, if you were an American head of household, you could get 160 acres of your own and a shot at a new life, all for the low price of a $10 filing fee and a whole lot of work.

Jim: Your intent is to make this parcel of land your home, to the exclusion of any other. Mm hmm. They asked you to be there for five years.

Michael: [to Jim] That’s a long time.

Jim: It is a fairly long time. But I think they were looking to see that people were committed. And they also required cultivation.

Michael: You had to improve the land as you lived there, which basically meant agriculture, growing crops, raising livestock. But if you did all that, the land is yours. If you didn't want to wait the whole five years, you could commute and pay Uncle Sam the minimum price per acre. But that's the bones of the system. And the system worked. The Homestead Act drew thousands of dreamers out West, thanks to the Great Northern Railway. Hopeful homesteaders could finally reach this corner of Montana in the 1890s. And that is the very zoomed-out policy perspective on how homesteading came to Montana. If you were baking a pie, like modern day homesteader Flannery, this would be the crust—the foundation for everything that came next.

[the hum of kitchen equipment fades in]

Peri Sasnett: [to Michael] Have you witnessed a pie being made?

Michael: [to Peri] Yes….

Michael: I actually had a chance to bake a pie with Flannery

Michael: [to Peri] …but I've witnessed a lot more pies getting eaten. That's usually where I'm involved in the process.

Michael: But while the crust is important, in my opinion, the most interesting part of the pie is what goes into that crust.

[sparse, upbeat electronic music begins]

Flannery: Let's get all of your ingredients. When you bake, it's called mise en place. Got to get everything in order.

Michael: The filling that gives it its flavor and character.

Flannery: So you got your lemon. How about your granulated sugar? Perfect. How about….

Michael: So what did homesteading look like through the eyes of someone who settled here?

[music finishes, marking a transition]

Michael: [to Lois] Never quite known how to refer to Polebridge “town”… you said “village” as well….

Lois Walker: Yeah. I don't think you can call it a town. I mean….

Michael: To answer that, I met with Lois Walker.

Lois: You can probably introduce me as the historian for the North Fork community or North Fork historian.

Michael: Lois understands the human side of the Homestead era in the North Fork as well, or better, than anyone.

Lois: I started by going back to the old newspapers. Any mention of the North Fork gets scanned and clipped. It's like working a gigantic jigsaw puzzle, and you just start putting all those pieces together and, you know, pretty soon you got a picture.

Michael: And I came to ask specifically about Bill Adair, one of the North Fork's most prominent homesteaders. Could you describe what he looked like?

Lois: Tall, thin, wiry. Often had a pipe in his mouth. [laughs] He was born in Missouri in 1866, but his family moved to Minneapolis when he was about 11. He had different jobs there, but he was just entranced by the trains. Trains were new, and the Great Northern was building the tracks across the northern tier. So he went to work for the railroad, and he worked his way up from being a coal boy to being an engineer.

Michael: Part of the job included a trip out West, delivering Kalispell's very first steam engine in 1892. And the trip must have left quite the impression because three years later he left his job, and he and his new wife, Jessie, moved all the way to Kalispell. He got a job at a mercantile store in Belton, the town that's now West Glacier, or the west entrance of the park, but he noticed what was going on in the North Fork.

Lois: I think he saw he saw what was happening. He saw the road punched through to the oil fields. He saw all the settlers starting to come. And he thought, hmm, all these people, they need equipment, they need supplies, they need food. And why should they have to come all the way to Belton? Hmm.

Michael: He jumped on this opportunity and decided to start a business in the North Fork.

Lois: So he leased some land—he didn't own it—he leased land at Sullivan Meadow and built a small store.

Michael: In 1904, Bill Adair opened his first store. And when you look through what he sold, you could learn a lot about what life was like for homesteaders at that time.

Lois: Here we have his ledger, his business ledger from 1904 to 1907. [sounds of papers crinkling and flipping] And it tells you who his customers were. He would have a page per customer and then all the things that they could acquire at his store in the park.

Michael: I mean, there's photos of this tiny log cabin store. And yet the amount of things he managed to fit in there and sell to folks is incredible.

Lois: In the back of this ledger is a list of things to buy. You know, “I've got to go to town. What's on my list?” I think this is about 1905. Coal oil, because everyone needed it for their lanterns, tea, bacon, maple syrup, cigars… [list of items fades and continues softly as Lois continues talking] I mean, he was providing services to the oil camps, to the Forest Service and the Rangers, to the road camps, to the fire camps, plus all of the homesteaders. Apricots—everyone loved dried apricots for some reason. Soap, a case of lunch beans, a grub hoe. He had to get all that stuff and get it to his store. Hanging lamps, matches. How did he get it the 22 miles up to Sullivan meadow? That all had to be done by wagon. He paid men to do freighting for him. A washing machine, spades and pitchforks, ammunition—he carried all the ammunition, fishing supplies. He's got you. Carnation canned milk was very popular. Garden seeds, writing tablets, laundry soap, anything that you needed, chances are he carried.

Michael: On top of that, he and his wife, Jessie, also managed to run essentially like a homestead hotel.

Lois: People would stop in. A bed for the night was $0.25. Meals were $0.35 or $0.50. Two meals and a bed was a dollar. A beer was $0.50, whiskey was $0.75 a pint. But he also sold it by the quart, the half gallon, and the gallon. You could easily run up a bill for $5 for, you know, bed and board and three beers and feed for your horse and—you name it, he sold it.

Michael: [to Lois] He was Costco, a hardware store, a hotel, a bar, a quarter horse…

Lois: He knew his onions. [chuckles]

Michael: [to Lois] The index you made at the beginning, this is a who's who, like every name I looked at was a name I recognized.

Lois: There's all the stuff that Ruder, now Jack Ruder—

Michael: [to Lois] Jack Ruder got a lotta beer. [both laugh loudly]

Lois: Yeah, that he did! Yeah so beer beer beer beer beer beer. Six plus one beer, five beers!

Michael: There's a mountain in the park named after Jack Ruder. So you could read in here receipts of what people bought. But these ledgers are also a record of the people that made up this small community.

Michael: [to Jim] What sort of people were taking the government up on this offer, and why?

Jim: So you have a lot of would-be farmers or farmers that are just looking for new opportunities. A lot of immigrants, you know, they're looking for a new start. Other people, they're looking for adventure… “oh, hey, this sounds like fun.”

Lois: You had to be strong to come up here. And people came from all over, some from the Midwest. You'll see people from Missouri, Nebraska, that area, and then from the northern tier, of course, from Minnesota and North Dakota, all different personalities.

Michael: These folks went all in on the North Fork—just as I accidentally poured all of our peach huckleberry filling into our pie crust.

[sounds of fruit plopping into a pie]

Flannery: What’s that?

Michael: [to Flannery] I maybe added all of it and shouldn't have.

Flannery: Uh oh

Michael: [to Flannery] I mean, I definitely added all of it. And shouldn't have.

[all laugh]

Flannery: You really committed fully.

Michael: [to Flannery] I heard add your filling, and I added it!

Michael: But I scooped up the excess, egg-washed the top crust, and slid it into the oven.

[sound of oven closing]

Flannery: That does it! You got it at 400 for the first, like 20 minutes. Beautiful.

Michael: So you have settlers coming here from all over, but the path for them to get to patent and actually earn their land was rarely easy.

Michael: [to Jim] What were common obstacles to actually getting to patent?

Jim: I think for a lot of people it was the money involved. You still had to buy food. You still had to buy things to put in your cabin to keep you warm in the winter. And you had to buy the materials to build the cabin. I think winters were hard on people.

Michael: Most people who visit see Glacier in the summer when it's nice and warm. But winters here are long, cold and snowy.

Lois: You were on your own in the winter. This is it. You're from—from the middle of October until April. You weren't going to town unless you snowshoed or, you know, the people weren't even taking horses and sleighs until a little bit later.

Michael: Even today, 100 years later, life in the North Fork is tough. I asked Flannery about this while our pie was in the oven.

Flannery: Just… everything is difficult. Your proximity to supplies, your proximity to services. You know, if something breaks, you can't just call the plumber. And so that can be mind boggling.

Lois: By October, they had to have laid in everything they were going to need for the winter barrels of flour and sugar and cornmeal, and everything you were going to need.

Michael: And Bill had to have the supplies not only for himself, but for everyone else as they stocked up.

Lois: How did he do that? How did he know to have the quantities? How did he get the stuff shipped to his store so that it was there so that people can buy it?

Michael: I asked Jim, who spent his career studying this history, if he would have considered homesteading himself.

Michael: [to Jim] Would you have been a homesteader?

Jim: [laughs] Probably not.

Michael: At its heart, it seems like homesteading takes a certain sort of person.

Flannery: Everything you do here is purposeful. Nothing is easy. And I like that. And I tried leaving here once, and I moved to Livingston for a few years, which I love so much. I missed the difficulty. You know, flipping on a light switch and flushing a toilet were way too easy, and it was got boring. for a while here we were taking showers outside with a five gallon bag hanging off of a tree in February.

Michael: [to Flannery] Oh, my gosh.

Flannery: [emphatically] And it was exhilarating!

Michael: Looking back at the past, it can seem like everything is the result of these sweeping governmental policies. But dreamers like Bill Adair and Flannery choosing a challenging way of life show that there are other forces at play.

Lois: There were strong personalities, there is no doubt about that. And they disagreed about a lot of stuff. But in the winter, you get along. Because today I pull you out of the ditch. Tomorrow you pull me out of the ditch. You know, you have to cooperate. You just have to whether you agree with them or not.

[pensive music begins to build]

Michael: Walking away from everything you knew to homestead in the North Fork required more than a business plan. It required a high tolerance for challenges, a community spirit, and a dream of something bigger than yourself. But in 1910, an entirely new obstacle appeared for these homesteaders—the creation of Glacier National Park. [music ends] A million acres that suddenly included homesteaders living on the east side of the river. For several years, the future of homesteading in the North Fork was uncertain—would the people already settled inside the park be allowed to stay, or would they have to move across the river outside of the park?

Lois: At the time the park became the park, there were, I think, 44 homesteads that had been filed on the east side of the river.

Michael: Ultimately, Glacier decided to allow the existing homesteads to remain, but they closed the door to newcomers and made life more difficult for those already here.

Lois: “What do you mean? We can't hunt? What do you mean, we can't trap? Why aren't you maintaining the road?” “No, it's not a county road. It's in the park.” And you see a lot of grousing among, you know, some of the early, early people.

[sparse, ambiguous music begins to play]

Michael: In 1912, all of the affected homesteaders signed a petition requesting that the North Fork valley be excluded from the park. It said, [slightly fuzzy] "we submit that it is more important to furnish homes to a land hungry people than to lock up the land as a rich man's playground." But the petition didn't work. The park's first superintendent, William Logan, shot back with this message.

Superintendent Logan (voice actor—gravelly, authoritative, antagonistic): Instead of giving up land there, I think we should take steps to obtain more. In fact, get rid of every settler on the North Fork in the Flathead River.

Michael: Logan's antagonism set the tone for how the park would approach landowners for years to come.

Lois: Some people had already left, but others, I think, saw the handwriting on the wall and said, let's go over to the to the west side.

Michael: Including Bill and Jesse Adair, who left the mercantile store they'd run for ten years and moved across the river outside of Glacier's boundary.

Lois: He was there from 1904 until 1914. But as we said, the park became the park in 1910. So in 1912, he filed on his own homestead on this side of the river. 160 acres, built himself a cabin.

Michael: And just like any other homesteader, he had to move there. He had to build things, grow crops, raise livestock. And he did. And he got his patent, five years later.

Lois: In 1917, he had 22 acres under cultivation. He was growing hay, potatoes, timothy...

Michael: [to Flannery] If he was just plopped down on the seat next to you, what would you want to ask Bill Adair?

Flannery: Ooooh! Well, A, the first thing I'd want to know is how he got those cabbages so big. He was famous for his cabbages! He grew—I mean, there's a picture at the Merc, him holding a cabbage the size of his torso. And he was a big guy!

Lois: ...a hundred chickens and one milk cow. When did he have time to do that?

Michael: And while he was at it, he built the most iconic building in the North Fork, the Polebridge Mercantile. Flannery actually used to own the mercantile and was repairing the second floor when she discovered that it was a kit home.

Flannery: They said that the mercantile was a kit, like from Sears, that Adair had ordered that came on the train to Belton.

Michael: The iconic false front building was shipped in pieces and assembled on site.

Flannery: And that's why mercantiles all kind of have a similar look throughout the West, you know.

Michael: Although when Bill ran it, it wasn't called the Polebridge Mercantile, because the town of Polebridge didn't exist. The bridge made out of poles hadn't been built yet.

Lois: Right, Polebridge didn't exist. So sometimes they would just call it Adair, the town of Adair. And then it was called the Polebridge Store. It wasn't until Karen Feather bought it in 1975, painted it red, started calling it the Polebridge Mercantile. They cut the lettering out, out of plywood, painted it white, put the lettering up there.

Michael: [to Lois] Bill was this kind of commercial hub. But I'm sure as a result of that, he was a community hub, too.

Lois: Oh, yeah. Dances. Dances. He started having dances when he was on the park side. And then when he opened up the store over here, there was a dance on the 4th of July. How sturdy must that store be to handle 150 people dancing? Upstairs?! [both laughing] I mean, I'm impressed. I know the store was used for elections. It was a polling place. He had, for a while he had the only radio in town, so people would gather at the Merc to listen to the radio. And when you own that store, the store may have open hours, but they're available 24 hours a day. If you needed help, you went to the store. He called the sheriff. He called the doctor. Whoever needed you know, they were, it—it was, it was a hub of the community.

Michael: The Homestead Act was a promise, 160 acres and a shot at a new life. And in in the North Fork, about two thirds of the people who filed on a homesteading claim got to patent and succeeded. And when you look at the people who succeeded, you start to get a picture of what it takes to be a homesteader.

Flannery: You guys might notice that the opportunity to make a living up here in the middle of nowhere, it… it's pretty sparse, right? Like, there's not that many—if you want to, if you're choosing to live here, you have to get creative.

Michael: [to Flannery] We're curious, like, do you see yourself as an entrepreneur or as a business owner as a homesteader?

Flannery: I hadn't ever really thought of myself as an entrepreneur. I've thought of myself as a risk taker and an adventure seeker. But I am an entrepreneur, actually. And so that's a new discovery to me.

Michael: Bill Adair and his wife Jessie brought their backgrounds and their talents and turned them into good lives.

Lois: He worked in the mercantile business in Belton for three years, and then he was ten years in the park, and he was almost 30 years over here. He was in the business for a long time. He knew it well. [music begins to play] He had to have had an amazing amount of patience, and a good sense of humor, and an ability to read character in people. He was an amazing fellow.

Michael: To me, it seems like this is the Homestead Act’s ideal outcome. They started a successful business, raised crops and animals, and held together a community. That's still alive today.

[music ends]

Flannery: And I smell it. It's really ready now.

[oven opens]

Michael: Gosh, look at it. It's so cute!

Flannery: It felt…questionable when we first saw it [both laughing] and now it looks really, really good.

Michael: [sound of slicing a pie] Took some of the crust down with it, but it's really good. [chews, laughs] It's not scalding my mouth. Mm hmm.

Flannery: You can rival any homesteader with this pie.

Michael: Making this pie with Flannery -- a dessert practically designed to be shared with others -- I can't help but feel like a little bit of Bill Adair lives on, too.

Michael: [to Flannery] Like you were saying, why pie? Like it's easy to sell whole or to share with other people. It feels like a little slice of community to, like, bake a pie that, you know you're never going to eat yourself. To share it with somebody else.

Flannery: Aww!

Peri: A slice of community! [laughs]

Michael: [to Flannery] So thank you, for the crust and all the assistance

Flannery: Yeah, you got it!

[short music interlude to mark a transition]

Michael: The Homestead era is full of resourceful people making the most of what they have. And as I looked through this time, I found something that embodies this attitude really well: quilts.

[sounds of cars]

Michael: [in the field] “If you're having a fabric emergency, please call. We'll do our best to assist you.”

[door opening, bells chiming]

Peri: I wonder what constitutes a fabric emergency.

Michael: Like the patchwork of ownership on a homesteading map. I'm seeing how beautiful it can be to stitch together such different pieces into a whole new thing.

Angela Johnson: And so my grandmother made quilts with flour sacks because they were, you know, reusing them.

Michael: And I also learned about Indigenous quilting.

Angela: I'm Angela Johnson, one of the owners of the Native Life Store in Browning, Montana.

Lisa Longtime Sleeping: I'm Lisa Longtime Sleeping, Angela's partner, and I run the daily managing of the store.

Michael: After visiting the North Fork, Peri and I drove east to the Blackfeet reservation. And while Native Life Store is kind of nondescript on the outside, the moment you walk in, you are greeted by every color of the rainbow and more.

Lisa: [laughing] And our tribe, we like bright colors. We kind of say we're like magpies, anything shiny. And so when you walk in, you see lots of bright colors and you see things that reflect who we are.

Michael: Bolts of fabric are neatly organized on shelves throughout the room. And then there's the quilts themselves. The one that caught my eye was still in progress, laid out on a massive long arm sewing machine that featured a variety of different prints.

Lisa: We wanted native prints. We wanted wildlife because we are right here next to Glacier National Park. And wildlife is such a big part of our culture and, and then Western because they kind of mix together.

Michael: For Lisa and Angela, the store was born out of a desire to meet the needs of their community.

Lisa: We always made dance outfits and our own clothes, and in making our kids’ dance outfits, we couldn't find what we needed.

Angela: We were traveling to Great Falls and Kalispell and—

Lisa: Yeah, and it just seemed crazy that it's such an important part of our culture as far as the dance regalia and everything, that we didn't have a place here in town.

Michael: Today, people come to the store not just for fabric emergencies, but to learn quilting from Lisa.

Lisa: Well, the first step is picking out your fabric, which can be the most stressful. [laughs]

Michael: Their most popular class is how to make star quilts—distinctly Indigenous quilts featuring a large eight-pointed star with colors and patterns radiating from the center.

Michael: [to Lisa and Angels] What made the star kind of so central to this quilting practice across different communities? Why star quilts?

Angela: Well, if you look at, well, Indigenous communities, star stories are very common among Indigenous cultures.

Lisa: It's a meaningful symbol.

Michael: This design is really striking. A seemingly simple shape made up of a dizzying number of different colors and fabrics. And they are as beautiful to behold as they are challenging to create.

Lisa: And the pattern is very—it's very difficult. I've had different people take my class saying “I have done the Lone Star pattern, and I was just terrible and it was so hard.” Then they have done my class and went, “I can't believe how easy that was, and how relaxing it was!”

Angela: Lisa is a very good teacher though. [both laugh]

Michael: And star quilts are more than just something to keep you warm. They have cultural meaning.

Lisa: It's an honor to receive one. You're being honored. Not just a nice gift or, you know, something to keep you warm. We give those away, too. But I mean, if it's—you're honoring someone's life.

Angela: Weddings, graduations and babies, it's my thing, because otherwise everybody wants you to make them a star quilt. And they're not easy.

Lisa: No, no. [both laugh]

Michael: It's one thing that Lisa reminds her students of, is that these quilts don't need to be perfect. They're not going to be flawless, but they're going to be yours.

Lisa: None of us are perfect. We all have imperfections. But when you look at the whole picture, all you see is beauty. And so when you see your whole quilt, all you're going to see is this beautiful quilt that you made, you know? So it reflects who we are as human beings, too. So it's okay to have those little flaws.

Michael: What I like about quilts is that they reflect not just the personality of the people making them, but the larger cultural forces that surround them, like the hardships that led quilters to use flour sacks. And when you look back at the Homestead era and Indigenous communities, like those on the Blackfeet and Flathead reservations, well, the heartwarming history of homesteading gets a lot more complicated.

Julie Cajune: I understood that the reservation was opened up to homesteading as a kid, you know, and as a young person. But I didn't know the political history.

Michael: I visited the Flathead reservation, an hour south of Glacier, on the other side of the park from the quilt store, to meet with Julie Cajune.

Julie: Julie Cajune, and I'm a citizen of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai tribes.

Michael: And Joe McDonald.

Joe McDonald: I'm Joe McDonald, born and raised here on the reservation. President Emeritus of Salish Kootenai College.

Michael: Julie showed me a map of the Flathead Reservation, and it's a mess of different colors. Purple, green, orange—honestly, looked a lot like a quilt. Those colors represent different statuses of land ownership: tribal, state and private.

Michael: [to Julie] What introduced you to the history of what we're going to talk about today? How did you come to understand that story?

Julie: Well, I understood it socially before I understood it politically. And so as a young person growing up, you knew that you lived around a lot of non-Indian people, even though this was a reservation, that was designated reserved homeland from our aboriginal homelands. That was to be a permanent tribal homeland for the exclusive use of said Indians. That's what the treaty says.

Michael: This part of the story begins in 1855, as the Kootenai, Salish, and Qlispé, or Pend d'Oreille people, met with representatives from the U.S. government. They were offered a treaty which said: if you give up 12 million acres of your traditional territory, we'll set aside 1.2 million acres for you to call home. With little choice, the tribes accepted the treaty and relocated to the Flathead Reservation.

Michael: [to Julie] It essentially outlines a suite of promises. One of them was the establishment, quote unquote, of a permanent tribal homeland.

Julie: For the exclusive use and benefit of said Indian tribes. And it goes on further to say, “no white men shall live there.”

Michael: [to Julie] That's in the treaty.

Julie: In the treaty, unless he is employed by the Indian agency.

Joe: Well, the treaty is very clear that, you know, they would survey the land, and the land that was set aside for the reservation would be theirs. Theirs forever as long as the water runs, the grass grows green, the sun shines—you know they give it all that nature assurances. So that's what they had, was going to be their land.

Michael: [to Julie] What happened next? Once you know, the Kootenai, Pend d'Oreille, Qlispé and, you know, Salish are all here.

Julie: So it was difficult, you know, because if you think of subsistence living, you know, you're, you're going where there's game.

Michael: Adjusting to life on the reservation was difficult, especially because the government intended to keep tribal members on reservation as much as possible.

Julie: And at one time, there was a pass system, where you had to get a pass to leave the reservation. But people were still wanting to hunt in usual and accustomed places. And the treaty guaranteed us that right.

Michael: Early Christian missionaries to the reservation, in an effort to stop wide-ranging buffalo hunts and other traditional practices, taught farming among other skills of domestic life.

Joe: The church taught them how to farm, and they taught them how to build houses, you know, the horse-drawn farm machinery, and raise cattle and that kind of stuff, because the Christians wanted them to stick around, they didn't want them to go off on his buffalo hunts. A buffalo hunt was a big deal. It was a summer vacation for kids and everybody. They would take the whole camp.

Michael: Despite treaty rights, which clearly state the right to hunt and gather off reservation, there was even a 1903 law that prohibited tribal members from leaving the reservation while armed.

Julie: People realized that they were going to have to adapt. And Native people have been very good at adapting. So people started engaging in agriculture, you know, by necessity.

Michael: But as all of this is happening, the number of homestead claims throughout the West has continued to climb, and many politicians and newspapers began to fear that available land in the West was disappearing.

Voice Actor: “The capacity of the western part of the United States to provide new homes for settlers is rapidly diminishing. In fact, in general terms, it can be said that there are no more chances for home seekers who do not possess capital.” The Missoulian 1901.

Michael: Which is when some politicians set their sights on reservation land. Here's Jim Muhn again.

Jim: It was bad news, and that's because people are saying, “Oh, all the good agricultural land is almost gone. They've got it. We want it. We'll take it.”

Michael: This idea that land was running out was gaining national momentum in the late 1800s, alongside another narrative: that if tribal nations wanted to succeed and assimilate into society, they too needed to become farmers. Both of these ideas echoed through the halls of Congress until they became a chorus.

Julie: Were people already eyeing our homeland? You know, I think people were already eyeing all of tribal homelands.

Michael: For the sake of our story, this momentum resulted in two bills, a nationwide law called the General Allotment Act, and more locally, one called the Flathead Allotment Act. And our local law began with a Montana congressman named Joe Dixon.

Joe: As far as the Indians are concerned, he's really a rascal. He got elected to Congress as a representative because he was going to open this reservation and the Crow Reservation to homesteading.

Julie: Senator Dixon was very instrumental in getting the Allotment Act passed, and he was working with business people, politicians, to get the Flathead Allotment Act passed.

Michael: Allotment as a policy was designed to take reservations, which had been held in common by members of a tribe, and divide them up into small, privately owned parcels called allotments. The supposed goal of this was to encourage Native families to take up agriculture. But as we've learned, they were already farming.

Joe: They had fences, and they had gardens, and they had cattle, and, and horses, and they were quite successful. And they wanted to stay there.

Julie: There were a lot of tribal members who were doing really well. And so the Flathead Allotment Act, which was passed in 1904—it wasn't, you know, the acculturation act of making us farmers and ranchers. It was really to get our land. And, you know, in the Flathead Allotment Act, it's not just allotting land to Indians. You have to read the whole thing. Then the land that's not allotted is surplus. And then that land is going to be surveyed and classified for homesteaders—against the vocal and written opposition of the tribe.

Michael: After the Flathead Allotment Act passed in 1904, the news spread among tribal members, and many felt betrayed. Some took action and turned to politics, including a Salish man named Sam Resurrection. Frustrated and confused by the ruling, he wrote letters to Washington, D.C. for years, seeking answers.

Sam Resurrection (read by Frank Waln): To Theodore Roosevelt, January 1908. [ominous electric guitar music beings to play] “I thought I would drop you a line and tell you what we all think about our reservation. He gave us this place to stop, and we all thought that this reservation belongs to us. Why is it that the whites want to take it away from us?”

Michael: And he did this through the help of a translator as he couldn't read or write in English.

Sam Resurrection (read by Frank Waln): To William Howard Taft, June 1910. “They told us we were to have our land til we all Indians die. There is 1,353 Flathead that don't want to be open.”

Joe: He was pretty effective, you know, voicing what people were thinking.

Michael: Chief Charlo, a famous chief of the Bitterroot Salish, went to Washington, D.C. in 1905 to protest the opening of the reservation, a trip that was covered by local newspapers.

Voice Actors: “He says he will not believe nor consent to it until he is told face to face by the president.” “The fact is Charlo does not want the reservation opened at all and will do all in his power to prevent its being opened.” The Missoulian 1905.

Julie: People were intellectually and politically engaged, and were negotiating political and cultural systems that were very much outside our experience.

Michael: [to Julie] And language.

Julie: And language. You know, the agency of our leaders and tribal members was pretty remarkable, you know, to protest what was happening, both in writing and by travel, but then to have your protests fall on deaf ears. And so it didn't matter.

Michael: And so in 1908, it began. [music ends] And it began with a census to identify tribal members living on the reservation before issuing each one an allotment.

Joe: “You get this section, you get that section,” and you're allotment—you might be on a real nice section. You might be next to a creek, might border a lake. You also might be out in a clay flat with no sign of anything around. [chuckles] So there's all this all these different allotments.

Michael: And after each tribal member got their standard issue 80 acre allotments, there was a lot of land left over.

Julie: If there's land left over, which of course, there was a lot of, and I think it was over 400,000 acres….

Michael: It was classified as surplus to be sold to homesteaders.

Julie: In just in the first public sale of land, and that was over 400,000 acres of reservation land that went into in, you know, non-Indian hands.

[music begins]

Michael: After the surveys, there was no delay in putting out the call to aspiring homesteaders.

Julie: All of the advertisements, you know, “Uncle Sam has a home for you. You know, a fortune on the Flathead Reservation awaits you.” You know.

Michael: From what I could find, one of the largest ad campaigns came from the Great Northern Railway. Here's a newspaper ad they ran.

Voice Actor: Indian land open for settlers under homestead laws. Flathead Reservation, Montana. Send for illustrated book, describing the country and giving details about when, where, and how to register. Enclose $0.04 for postage.

Julie: So all of these advertisements went out, you know, and you end up with this little mini-land rush of homesteaders here. Who were people who probably didn't have anything. Who were extremely poor. Did—did they know that they were depriving Indian people of land? How knowledgeable were they? How literate were they? Did they know? I don't know.

Michael: The Flathead Reservation was opened to homesteaders in April of 1910, a month before Glacier National Park was established. As homesteaders began to arrive, it became clear that the surveyors who drew these lines did so hastily and with little care for existing homes. Take, for example, the story of Chief Charlo. He opposed the opening of the reservation until he passed away in January of 1910, but his wife was still alive and living in their house.

Joe: His wife was there when they did the survey for the allotment. The line went right through her house. [chuckling] It was two allotments, but she didn't own the allotment that her house was on. A part of it was on another allotment. And so then the non-Indian that got the allotment, part of it was her house, and here's this 80 year old woman, [chuckling] gonna force her to move? I don't know what they did. They must have maybe stalled out and let her live there till she died.

Michael: And while many of these new homesteaders were eager to start their lives here, some saw an opportunity to exploit the system and take advantage of their Indigenous neighbors.

Julie: One of the things that happened here that we didn't mention were white men marrying Indian women for their allotments. And there used to be a saying here, “he married her for her 80. He married her for her 80 acres.”

Michael: Another tactic was something called forced allotment. The Allotment Act specified that tribally-owned land would transfer from trust status where it is tax free to fee status, where it would become both taxable and available for sale.

Joe: So after 25 years, you could sell your allotment. And so they got in what they called the forced allotment period when sales were forced on them.

Michael: Part of this was through taxes issued to people who couldn't afford them, and when you defaulted, they'd claim your land to settle the debt. But there was also Joe Dixon, the guy Joe McDonald called a rascal, who pushed through this Allotment Act in the first place. During this period, he helped establish mercantiles on the reservation, which sold expensive goods and services to tribal members.

Joe: And then let them run up their bills and then they would get after him for payment. They didn't have any money and they said, "Well, you have this allotment, you can sign your allotment over to me and clear up the bill." And so they did that. Also the mortician—I got records of where my granddad signed over some lots in St Ignatius to pay for his seven-year-old son's burial. So it was really a treacherous thing.

Michael: Allotment as a practice ended for good in 1934 with the Indian Reorganization Act. But by that time, the damage had been done.

Joe: Up to that point the land was the tribe's. And you used the whole land. You traveled, you camped wherever you wanted to. And then with allotment period came the you know, this is your little square. It really harmed social interaction with Indian people. And also the way they looked at things that—this is mine, instead of this is ours. It was 1.2 million acres counting all the mountains and foothills and all of that. And so by 1940, the tribe only owned 35% of the acreage. 65% was in other ownership.

Julie: So we are now—Indian people are the minority population on our own reservation.

Michael: And this didn't just happen on the Flathead Reservation. If you include every reservation in the country, the allotment era took more than 90 million acres out of tribal hands, an area roughly the size of the state of Montana. [music begins to play] Allotment policies were born from the ideology of the Homestead era: that land of your own was the key to a successful life. But something that was offered to homesteaders was forced on tribes. Allotment divided often community-run reservations into privately-owned parcels, where it was now subject to taxes, and surplus land went up for sale. The impacts of this are complex and far reaching, but if you cut to the heart of the hurt caused by these policies, it wasn't your new neighbors to blame. It was the new narrative about the value of land—and where, and who, you were supposed to be. A narrative sold to you in your own best interest, before your land was sold to somebody else. This era affected every tribe differently. Allotment didn't necessarily mean that your reservation would be opened to homesteaders. The Blackfeet reservation wasn't—yet the tribe still lost thousands of acres due to taxes they couldn't afford, [sad piano music begins to play] or to white store owners who, as one account described, accepted 250 acres in exchange for $30 worth of groceries. My visit to the Native Life Store in Browning, the quilting shop, helped show that allotment was just one of many ways that tribal nations were pressured to conform to white societal norms.

Michael: [to Angela and Lisa] Quilting in Indigenous communities—like how did that... What's the origins of quilting as a cultural tradition?

Angela: Well, I mean, mission schools and people bringing quilting to Indigenous people...

Michael: Farming wasn't the only practice pressed on to tribal members. Quilting as a domestic skill was taught in boarding schools to Indigenous girls around the country, often at the cost of their traditional arts.

Angela: With us, we made clothing and blankets out of buffalo hides. As, you know, the mission schools came in and we were placed on reservations and we lost our ability to hunt and gather and collect those hides… Out of necessity, because people didn't have access to hides anymore, they started quilting. And most quilting in the US and a lot of places was just like patchwork quilts and squares, real simple quilts.

Michael: But Lisa and Angela's star quilts today, they're anything but simple. Historically, many have dismissed quilting as a practical homemaking skill, but in their hands it is plain to see that it is an art.

Angela: And then it evolved. And then Natives sort of took to the star quilt because of their connection with star stories and the symbolic meaning of stars.

Lisa: Being taught in in boarding schools and whatnot, it was very practical. This is not a practical quilt. But yet we still, [both laughing] this is the one we still chose

Angela: This is the gold standard of quilts in Indian Country for sure.

Michael: You come across so many examples of tribal nations being forced to suppress their own identity, only to clearly, consistently, and often cleverly refuse.

Michael: [to Lisa and Angela] So I don't know, are quilts like a symbol of Indigenous resistance?

Lisa: I think the star quilt is for sure

Angela: I would say yes, because, you know, most native Indigenous cultures, they adapt things to their needs. That's kind of who we've always shown to be as a people. This is just one of the examples of it.

Michael: In the case of the Flathead Reservation, that adaptability has meant buying back reservation land, finding ways to confront and overcome the circumstances.

Julie: The tribe started buying land back immediately. I think the largest purchases were made, the most acreage purchased was in the 1950s. But of course, they're buying land back at the current price. The last I heard officially, it was, you know, we're over 60%. We were under 40. We have bought a lot of land back. But the tribes are buying it at a—at a pretty high price. [wistful violin music begins] You know, after all of these hundreds of years at efforts to assimilate us, I think that we still remain distinct and unique as Native people, even in modernity.

Michael: As a policy, the Homestead Act offered hope. And like a magnet, the promise of a better life to thousands of people out west. And allotment shows that some powerful and politically-minded people realized they could take that magnet and abuse it for their own self-interest. But at the personal level, the same traits that helped settlers succeed on homestead claims helped tribes survive the homestead era. Lives and communities built through determination, adaptability and kindness.

Angela: I don't own a quilt that I've made. I've gifted every single one of them. So we've really built a family with our customers.

Lisa: I am a firm believer that culture shouldn't have a price on it, so that only someone with money can afford to learn it and to have that.

Michael: [to Lisa and Angela] Holding together a lot more than just pieces of fabric here.

Lisa: Exactly. Exactly.

[music continues to build, then plays softly under the credits]

Daniel: Headwaters is a production of Glacier National Park with support from our partner, the Glacier National Park Conservancy. This season of Headwaters was made by me—Daniel Lombardi—Peri Sasnett, Michael Faist and Gaby Eseverri. We could not have made Season Three without Lacy Kowalski or Melissa Sladek and Sierra Mandelko, Brent Rowley, Darren Lewis, the Glacier National Park Archives, and the Montana Historical Society. Special thanks this episode to Flannery Freund for opening up her front (and oven) doors to us, Jim Muhn, Lois Walker, Angela Johnson and Lisa Longtime Sleeping for solving all our fabric emergencies, Julie Cajune, Joe McDonald, and the series of history books he helps edit, titled "Documents of Salish, Pend d'Oreille, and Kootenai Indian History." These books proved an invaluable resource in understanding this story. Thanks for listening.

[drumbeat begins]

Lacy: Next time on Headwaters.

Michael: The corporation that made Glacier National Park a destination. And the people who did the advertising.

Bill Schustrom: He didn’t want to get in trouble with the federal government.

Ray Djuff: Well all of that was malarkey. There was no truth to any of it.

Bill: All you want is to make money from the mountains.

Darnell Rides At The Door: His ability to capture a person’s features is phenomenal. And to see this original? It brought tears to my eyes.

Renee Bear Medicine: You realize that—these are our people.

Michael: That's next time on Headwaters.

[music ends]

Michael: [to Andrew] Headwaters is possible because of the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

Andrew Smith: That's right.

Michael: [to Andrew] But you also fund a lot of other projects. What are some examples?

Andrew: Yeah, the NPS Academy is a project we're really excited about right now. This is an internship opportunity that is available to people from lots of diverse backgrounds that are kind of underrepresented in the National Park Service. And it's a really special internship because in addition to the experience they get working here, they get seminars on how to build career skills, how to write their resume, all sorts of extra job training to set them up for success in the Park Service.

Michael: [to Andrew] That's awesome. What a life-changing opportunity.

Andrew: Yeah, and they get to work in a bunch of different divisions across Glacier. So there's, as you know, a lot of different jobs in a national park. [Michael laughs] So we're excited to bring some new perspectives into the Park Service.

Michael: [to Andrew] That's awesome. Well, if you want to learn about that project and the other ones that you work on, where can you go?

Andrew: Check out our website, it's at glacier.org

Michael: [to Andrew] Great. Well, thanks Andrew.

Andrew: Thanks Michael.

The twin stories of homesteading and allotment explored through baking and quilting analogies. How Euro-Americans came to settle inside the Glacier National Park and inside the Flathead Reservation.

Glacier Conservancy: https://glacier.org/headwaters Frank Waln music: https://www.instagram.com/frankwaln/ Eric Carlson art: https://www.instagram.com/esccarlson/ Behind the scenes pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmSxSe2J

Episode 9

Becoming | A Destination

Transcript

Lacy Kowalski: Headwaters is brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

[a robin sings; footsteps]

Gaby Eseverri: [in the field] Can you grab my wallet too, just in case I need the ID?

Michael Faist: Same pocket?

Gaby: [in the field] Yeah

Michael: You will need the ID, Tom Hanks is going to greet us like, Polar Express style.

Gaby: [in the field, gasps dramatically] There it is Michael!

Michael: Oh my God it’s coming quickly.

[train sounds; bell clanging, train braking, hissing, and coming to a stop. Conductor calls out indecipherably]

Michael: [sounds of passengers wheeling luggage over the cement in the background] We are waiting to board the Amtrak that just pulled in, the Empire Builder, at Belton, in West Glacier.

Conductor: You guys are good to go.

Michael: Great!

Gaby: [in the field] Alrighty, thank you so much.

Conductor: You bet.

Gaby: It's a beautiful morning when Michael and I finally decide it's time to ride the train. Michael is more interested in the experience, but if I'm being honest, I'm here for the destination.

[over the train loudspeaker, cheerfully: “There is no saving seats. Please make room for everyone who’d like to get a seat in the lounge car. Everyone would like to see this beautiful view! With all the space. Thank you!”]

Michael: There’s one, but…

Gaby: [in the field] Let’s see…

[passenger in the background: “Mind if I sit…somewhere?]

Gaby: [in the field] Okay, we made it to the lounge car!

Michael: We did.

Gaby: [in the field] Yeah. This is cool, there’s more windows here…

Michael: Yeah it’s got skylights, wraparound windows.

Gaby: [in the field] Are we train people now?!

Michael: [laughing] I think I’m a train person now

Gaby: We're riding rails that were once run by the Great Northern Railway. But today we're on the Amtrak.

Gaby: [in the field] That was really quick!

Michael: Yeah, oh my gosh. I’m just picturing a plane where you’re sitting on the runway for 45 minutes.

Gaby: [in the field] Totally. But it was so smooth I didn’t actually feel it, I just saw the trees going by.

Michael: Yeah no, genuinely.

Gaby: [in the field] It is so beautiful. The nice thing about riding the train this early in the morning is that you have beautiful views with that morning light.

Michael: We are right along the river.

Gaby: [in the field] Yeah.

Gaby: JJ and Louis Hill are revered here—the father and son duo who made Glacier the destination we know today. But while JJ Hill cared about express shipping, Louis saw the potential of tourism.

Michael: For 40 years, this was the only way to get through this canyon, really. James J Hill rode on this line. Thousands of laborers toiled away to lay the tracks that paved th way for this. To be on it is kind of—powerful.

Gaby: [in the field] I can see how the train really opened up Glacier to the world.

Michael: Me too.

This train runs along the southern boundary of the park. These tracks have been here for well over a hundred years, and their placement set both freight and tourists in motion.

Gaby: [in the field] I feel like what we’re experiencing is not necessarily JJ Hill’s vision. So I think what we’re actually experiencing is a little more of Louis Hill’s vision, his son.

Michael: Mmhmm. JJ saw passenger travel as a waste of space; Louis saw an opportunity.

Gaby: We'll be disembarking at the Glacier Park Lodge. That is where this history starts.

Conductor: [over loudspeaker] We’ll be arriving at East Glacier in the next 20 minutes; if that is your final destination, this is a good time to return to your seats and collect your belongings.

Michael: Okay, we gotta say goodbye to the lounge car, go back to our seats.

Gaby: [in the field] Bye lounge car!

Michael: Bye!

Daniel Lombardi: In the decades just after the park was established, the train was the primary way to get here. When visitors disembarked at the Glacier Park Lodge, they were greeted by Blackfeet people in full regalia, paid by the railway to sing and dance, and to promote Glacier as a place to see the "vanishing Indians." This is season three of Headwaters and it's called Becoming. [Headwaters season 3 theme begins playing; starting with mandolin] It's a collection of histories about how Glacier National Park came into being.

[theme continues; a drumbeat, a flute line, and other instruments come in, before the music finishes]

Daniel: They say history repeats itself—the same old stories again and again. One of those stories is people doing just about anything for another ounce of power or wealth. But just when you think history is making another spin back around, you notice something different. That just because something started as a scheme to get rich doesn't mean it stayed that way. This is one of those stories. This episode is about the economic forces that pushed Glacier National Park into existence. But it is also about the people who got rolled up in that history and found a way to make it their own.

[sparse electronic music begins to play]

Gaby: [in the field] After walking this exhibit, what kind of moves through you? How do you feel?

Darnell Rides At The Door: A feeling of, I guess, some more pride, dignity. But the closeness that I felt, all those people that are gone. I start thinking of them, my grandmothers and my mother, and how that that whole era is—it is a piece of history now. And when I was younger, I always thought, you know, time was so, so forever. Now it's short.

Gaby: I'm touring the Museum of the Plains Indian with the curator Renee Bear Medicine.

Renee Bear Medicine: My name is Renee Bear Medicine. I am the current curator for the Museum of the Plains Indian. It's been an awesome experience. This was my first job out of high school, in 1990, so I think it was my calling.

Darnell: It's an honor to have one of our own be the curator. It's an honor for us to be able to write our own history and have our own stories told the way that that we know them.

Gaby: Darnell Rides At The Door is with us, too, telling me about her family's connection to this exhibit.

Darnell: Okii niistoo unnikkok niitookimmii, no'm"tootoo umsskaapiipiikuni. I am Darnell Rides At The Door, my native name or Indian name is Niitookimmii, which means Lone Camper, given to me by my great grandfather, John Eagle Calf Ground. He and my grandmother and my family have been closely associated with the—the series, the Winold Reiss series.

Gaby: In this episode, you'll hear people say both Winold Reiss [pronounced Veenold Rice] and Winold Reiss [pronounced Win-old Rees]. That's the same person.

Darnell: Some say, Winold Reiss [pronounced Win-old Rees], but the Indians just call him "Winol." There was no D on there, just Winol.

[Quiet electronic music begins again]

Gaby: Darnell takes out a small piece of paper. It's a copy of a painting of two young girls. She holds it in a way that feels like she's caressing it. Her eyes never leaving theirs.

Darnell: But that's them when they were painted by Winold Reiss, and they got six silver dollars for sitting there.

Gaby: [in the field] Wow.

Darnell: She told the story. My sister wrote it up. How old were they? Well, my mother was born in 35, and her sister was born in 34, so they must have been six and seven maybe?

Renee: That's your momma, you know?

Darnell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the things that we hold dear. And I think that those connections is a great, great word.

Gaby: [in the field] Thank you both so much. Thank you. Bye bye.

Michael: Okay.

Gaby: [in the field] That was really special. I feel like they shared a lot with us.

[car doors slamming; car noise]

Michael: Do we want to pretend like we're arriving?

Gaby: Oh yeah, because someone forgot to hit record when we were on our way.

Gaby: [in the field] Oh, we're stuck in traffic because of construction on Highway 2. I think we're going to get to the museum soon. In fact, I see Browning coming into view.

Gaby: I'm holding a pamphlet that Renee gave me, and it describes the exhibit.

Gaby: [in the field] So this exhibit is called Connections: the Blackfeet and Winold Reiss. It's a series of portraits, and they were created for the Great Northern Railway.

Gaby: The exhibit includes both Reiss's pastel portraits and personal items that belonged to the people he portrayed. An intricately beaded purse sits next to the painting of the woman who made it. A police uniform hangs beside the person who wore it. The portraits themselves are incredible, but these objects add another dimension to these people.

Gaby: [in the field] I really like the sentence, "these portraits connect us with Blackfeet individuals who grappled with the imposition of the tourism industry." The imposition of the tourism industry. It's powerful.

Michael: Your last question too, got some of the best tape of the whole day. Like, “would you want to be—would you get your portrait done?”

Gaby: [in the field] Yeah.

Michael: Darnell had an amazing outfit on.

Gaby: [in the field] Yeah. Well, she looked like a straight up queen.

[drumbeat marks a transition]

Gaby: I'm interviewing Bill Schustrom, one of Glacier's longest-tenured rangers. I want to know how the Great Northern Railway helped push for the creation of Glacier National Park.

Bill Schustrom: I just love working with the people I work with. Michael came in there as a young kid

Gaby: [to Bill] Awww!

Bill: Yeah and I watched him grow up, and watched a few—watched a few romances come and go, and I had to do a lot—

Gaby: [to Bill] Do you ever, like, set people up?

Michael: Oh, my gosh. He's the he's the office matchmaker, Are you sparking with anybody?? Are you sparking with this one? [all laughing]

Bill: Yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah. Yeah, are you sparking yet?

Michael: All right, this isn't the point. [laughing]

Bill: I'm Ranger Bill, Ranger Bill Schustrom. Been around the park for many, many years. Very interested in the Going-to-the-Sun Road. And obviously the Great Northern Railway and its impact on Glacier National Park, especially during its early years.

Gaby: So Bill is the kind of park ranger that gives evening programs or afternoon walks—someone that's happy to answer any question. And he loves trains. So he's been talking about the Great Northern at Glacier for a long time.

Bill: Now, the big thing was that James J. Hill was interested in profit. He was really trying to promote bringing people out to homestead. And then along came Louis. But Louis Hill was the you know, he was a hard core businessman, but he was also a romantic.

Gaby: Louis was a bit of a dreamer. He wanted to live the Glacier lifestyle, that for him was riding horses and camping in cold temperatures and then jumping into lakes—nude. True story.

Gaby: [to Bill] How is he different from his dad?

Bill: Louis? He wasn't. He was the one that was closest to him. He paralleled his dad in their line of thinking and everything, except when it came to Glacier Park.

Gaby: [to Bill] So then Glacier was kind of this thing between them where they disagreed on their approach and how to, I suppose, make money here.

Bill: Well, James J wasn't interested, and he said, “why'd we put a lot of money into a bunch of mountains when we could be making money, bringing crops and things and cattle and stuff like that back east, which is going to give us a really great net profit of money.” He was in it for the money. He was a money man. Now, Louis was, too. He lobbied for this to become a national park. That was one of his goals.

Gaby: [to Bill] So Louis didn't really invent this idea of kind of profiting through national parks and railroads, because he kind of saw this happening in Yellowstone.

Bill: Louis immediately said a railroad goes right along the southern border of these incredible mountains. And so why can't we do that up here?

Gaby: Northern Pacific Railroad paid for a lot of Yellowstone's infrastructure to invite tourism. And Louis Hill wanted to do that here. So he started pushing for Glacier to become a national park.

Bill: Okay he didn't want to get in trouble with the federal government.

Gaby: [to Bill] Why?

Bill: Because he felt that they would say “all you want is to make money from the mountains.”

Gaby: [to Bill] Which is not wrong. [laughing]

Bill: So that's exactly—that's exactly right. So but the thing that he did do was encourage George Bird Grinnell to promote the area for a national park.

Gaby: George Bird Grinnell is seen as kind of the grandfather of Glacier, responsible for developing the public and political support for a park here.

Bill: So Louis just kind of came in on the tail end of it very much wanting it to happen, but didn't want to get his name out there with the idea that the feds would say, we're not going to do it because all you want of was the money.

[wistful music begins to play]

Gaby: [to Bill] He was so ready for it. Like you already had construction happening, the Belton Chalet. He already had these plans in motion.

Bill: Oh, yes. Louis Hill was a big backer.

Gaby: And then on May 11th, 1910, this place got a new name: [music ends] Glacier National Park. And soon after the hotels came, it was becoming a destination.

Bill: And right away, bingo. The Belton Chalet went in.

Gaby: In 1911, the park had a budget of $15,000, which even then was basically nothing. But the Great Northern Railway was ready to pick up the slack because they stood to make a profit. They spent over $90,000 in one year—six times the park's budget—and continued to outspend the park for the next decade.

Bill: He was looking ahead. He was a far, far reaching person. He had a vision. He followed every single thing of the construction from the beginning to the end. He was involved in that to make sure that it was what he wanted.

Gaby: It's impossible to know what Glacier National Park would have become without the influence of Great Northern. The railway put Glacier on the map, building hotels, spinning yarns, and creating a mythology to draw people here, whatever the cost.

[sparse music sets off a transition]

Gaby: [in the field] Do you think you would have sat down for a portrait?

Darnell: Um… I don't know. That's a good one. So I don't think I would have at the time. I would it—might have been if I was along with my mother or my grandmother and they happened to be there. Yeah. Maybe.

[sparse, emotional music begins]

Renee: You know believe it or not, I think our people are still in the era of... Not distrust, but being careful. And…mand we still have that guard up. And the question arises, what are we being used for? Yes, it's almost like we're props. Like a lot of people come in here, they take pictures or whatever, and then they make calendars and it go somewhere else, sell them. So it was a big thing. You know, they, they really utilized the Blackfeet Indian people to launch that tourism in Glacier National Park.

Gaby: The Blackfeet were used—I might even say exploited—to promote Glacier as a destination. The railway had their portraits painted, then use those portraits on posters, calendars, playing cards... So many of their promotional souvenirs.

Darnell: Right. And that's happened in our families. My daughter, when she was about four or five, we were camped over here at the campground. Her and my sister's daughter, they're close to the same age. Somebody peeped in our lodge and took a picture of them, and we had just dressed them to go to dance. And Smokey's aunt found it in Glacier Park on sale and bought it and said, this is my relatives. And so native people were, I guess, part of that history. So there's the good history, and there's the history that's the true history, and there's also the history that's from our perspective.

Gaby: [in the field] So this isn't—it sounds like this isn't the first time that you're seeing a lot of these pieces.

Darnell: Oh, no.

Gaby: [in the field] You've been seeing these since you were—

Darnell: Since I was a kid, you know, and that was a big subject who was painted by Winold Reiss. The last two living people were my mother and Floyd Middle Rider. And my mother passed in 2020. So she was the last one. My mother, a great historian, told us for years I was one of the ones painted by Winold Reiss. None of us believed her. "Oh, yeah, right." You know, and then it came, came to be when, I believe a book came out with Reiss's prints in there, and they were inside the book. Said, “okay, Mom, we believe you now.” She said, yeah. And then she told us a story about getting those six silver dollars. She said they didn't really mean a hill of beans. She had a way of talking, she had a language all her own.

Gaby: Reiss was known for paying his models generously, in this case, giving six silver dollars to two little girls.

Gaby: [in the field] Darnell, do you remember any more details of, of your mom and aunt being painted by him or other family members?

Darnell: Everything had to be perfect, Grandma said. We had a lot of preparation to do, she said. Then when we were called to go greet the tourists.

Gaby: [in the field] Getting off of the train.

Darnell: Getting off of the train, coming to East Glacier. Usually it was groups, but a lot of times it was special groups like dignitaries, presidents, people of prominent nature. There were people that came from all over the world would come to Glacier Park, and the ones that were the biggest advertisers were the Blackfeet people. My grandparents were part of that.

Gaby: It was Darnell's family who would greet visitors to the park when they got off the train. Her family was one of many who helped sell the romantic image of the park.

Darnell: They couldn't do a lot of the things that we can do freely now. It's a, it's a part of me that I've always had that I wasn't... Shouldn't be in there. Because I didn't feel like I was welcome. Now we go up and bless the big hotel. We go up and welcome the tourists. Not like my grandparents did, but almost on a similar basis. So the relationships have changed.

Gaby: A lot has changed. They say history repeats itself. But I've also heard something else—that it doesn't repeat itself, it rhymes. I like that better.

Gaby: [in the field] After walking this exhibit, like what kind of moves through you? How do you feel?

Darnell: It is a piece of history now. And when I was younger, I always thought, you know, time was so, so forever. Now it's short.

[subtle electronic music marks a transition]

Gaby: Darnell is flipping through a binder with small prints of painted portraits. Some are her family, and many are decades old, bright pastels of Blackfeet people, safely tucked into plastic sleeves. These portraits that I once saw as exploitative are something Darnell treasures.

Darnell: And this is my grandpa. That's Eagle Calf. This is one of the many portraits that, I think Eagle Calf had four or five. But he's on this calendar. He's—he's the one gave me my Indian name.

Gaby: [in the field] Thank you!

Darnell: Nice to meet you.

Daniel: Bye!

[music continues]

Gaby: Maybe history can't repeat itself because it isn't something that's over. Not a loop starting back again, but something still present and happening now.

Ray Djuff: A friend once described it as a medical affliction, and he said, "Once you're bitten by the Glacier bug, there is no cure." So I'm not looking for a cure. And I'm having a hell of a lot of fun being infected.

Gaby: That's Ray. And he might be one of Glacier and Waterton's biggest, and if I may, nerdiest fans.

Ray: I'm Ray Djuff. I'm a writer. My focus is on Waterton and Glacier International Peace Park and I'm from Calgary.

Gaby: [to Ray] Why do you study history?

Ray: I study history to know why. The questions have just kept coming. I learn a little bit and I want to know a little bit more.

Gaby: [to Ray] Yeah. I can certainly relate to that in pursuing this story.

Ray: There is a connection between the Blackfeet and what was called the Buffalo Nickel, a coin that came out in 1913, and the connection was created by the Great Northern Railway as part of a publicity effort to get people's attention and have them come to Glacier Park. So the head of the Great Northern Railway at the time was Louis Hill. Louis Hill had just returned from the bank and gotten some change. He looks at his change and sees this new nickel and recognizes the similarity between the Native American on the coin and Two Guns White Calf, a Blackfeet man whom he had just met. Louis Hill sees the coin, writes to his publicity guy Hoke Smith, and says, "Would you please issue a press release thanking the American government for putting White Calf on the buffalo nickel?" Every single citizen in the U.S. has a nickel in his purse or in his pocket. So the advertising is there. All you have to do is get somebody to reach in, pull that nickel out for some candies or bubble gum or something. And you're looking at a promotion. It's phenomenal. Well, all of that was malarkey. It was no truth to any of it. The artist himself said he had never met Two Guns when he designed the coin. Unfortunately, he couldn't remember all of the people who had been the inspiration for the design of that Native American.

Gaby: To the Great Northern, it didn't matter who was actually on the nickel. It connected Glacier National Park and the Blackfeet to millions of people across the U.S. And this was only one piece of their promotional machine. Louis Hill had all the killer instincts for successful advertising, but he also hired quite the creative ad man, named Hoke Smith.

Ray: A man who could create something out of nothing. If you go into the railway station at Whitefish, you will see mounted on a plaque, a trout that is covered in fur. He immediately thought of Iceberg Lake, and then he started to create a story.

Promotional Movie: [old timey music plays while a narrator speaks in a jaunty accent] From here, the hiker, to whom Glacier Park is practically a mecca, can follow the foot and horseback trails to such popular objectives as Iceberg Lake.

Ray: Iceberg Lake is so cold that the fish have to grow fur to keep warm.

Promotional Movie resumes: Usually frozen over solid into July, the lake actually is filled with miniature icebergs, and it is here that the legend of the fur bearing trout was born.

Ray: The myth of the fur bearing trout is something that's now seen, heard, read, and shown in pictures and stories across the Rockies. But Hoke originated it. Louis Hill sold the idea that you could come to Glacier, see the Blackfeet, and experience that Old West. Louis Hill wanted them to wear their traditional dress, to speak their language, to practice their culture, because all of that was important for drawing tourists to the park. In doing that, he was running counter to what the American government wanted.

Promotional Movie: [another clip with similar early 1900s music and narration style] There's an Indian encampment nearby. We're on the edge of the great Blackfeet Reservation, and it's like turning back the pages of history to watch them sing and dance.

Ray: Also, because you've got people like Louis Hill having authors write their stories, you've got artists being paid to paint their portraits, the record for the Blackfeet is very extensive compared to some tribes in North America, and it was all unknowing. They hadn't intended it necessarily. They weren't trying to counter the government. They were doing this for their own purposes. Louis Hill wanted to show that this was the place to come see Native Americans before they all disappeared. Did he believe they were going to disappear? I don't know.

Gaby: On my first pass through the story, I thought it was a history of exploitation, a giant corporation using people as props to make money. But now, after turning the story over a few times, I still see exploitation, but I see something else as well.

Ray: His efforts actually helped preserve Blackfeet culture. The Native American Speaks program in Glacier, I almost see as a continuation of something that the Great Northern was doing, but in a less colonial way. And you're getting a new way of looking at the history of this park rather than through Euro-American eyes. What Louis Hill started was a multi-pronged effort to promote Glacier Park, and authors and artists were another part of the Great Northern Railway campaign.

Gaby: One of those artists was Winold Reiss. He was a German-American artist who was captivated by stories of Native Americans.

Ray: He was definitely a part of the Great Northern's advertising campaign.

Gaby: Reiss was based in New York City and created famous portraits of important figures in the Harlem Renaissance. But he also spent a lot of time in the Blackfeet homelands on the eastern side of Glacier National Park. He first came to visit the Blackfeet Reservation in 1920, and he spent several months painting and building relationships with people he met.

Ray: Louis Hill hires him, this is about 1927, and it starts a whole new advertising campaign that nobody had quite anticipated, but became incredibly successful.

Gaby: His portraits that hang at the Museum of the Plains Indian were used everywhere. For several decades, the Blackfeet became the face of Great Northern and of Glacier because of Reiss's art.

Ray: What makes Winold Reiss's paintings really stand out is that they're colorful and they're detailed. Winold Reiss worked with pastels, and immediately you're going to get something that's denser and darker and can be brighter. Also Winold Reiss really focused on the details. The clothing looks realistic. The hands and the faces look realistic. They're also large panels. They weren't small. When you saw a Winold Reiss painting, you're drawn into it immediately. The person is—as if they're standing right or sitting right in front of you. These are posed, yes, but there's a humanity about them. He would talk to them during the sittings. Some of these people became his friends.

Gaby: [to Ray] And Louis Hill immediately was enamored with these paintings.

Ray: So much so that he bought everything Winold Reiss did that first year and would continue to buy most everything Winold Reiss produced over the next 20 years.

Gaby: In the end, Reiss ended up creating more than 250 works of Native Americans. And he was more than an artist—he was a teacher. Many summers in the 1930s, artists from Europe and across North America came to the shores of St Mary Lake to learn from him. Blackfeet artists trained alongside them, and they influenced Reiss in turn. The exhibit features several pieces from these artists, including Victor Pepion, who went on to inspire his great nephew, John Pepion. He is now a renowned pictographic artist and muralist whose work is also featured in the Museum of the Plains Indian.

[electronic beat sets off the transition]

[Beeping of a car]

Gaby: [in the field] Oh here’s Darnell. “In traffic construction,” says “it shouldn’t be long.” She put a bunch of exclamation points. [laughing] She put five excalamtion points!

[footsteps on wood decking]

Gaby: [in the field] We're going in through the back.

Renee: Hi.

Gaby: [in the field] Hello! Are you Renee?

Renee: Yes I’m Renee! [laughing]

Gaby: It's so great to meet you!

Renee: I know. It's like email email email. [all laughing] Yeah. Okay, well, we can start in here with the intro panel.

Gaby: We walk into the main gallery room, which has the intro panel and several of the portraits on display. They're big and colorful, and we all take a moment to admire them. So if you had to describe Winold's work in like a sentence, how would you do that?

Renee: He captured an awesome likeness.

Darnell: He captured the, the features of the person as well as their, I guess their... almost their thoughts.

Renee: You realize that these are our people.

Gaby: [in the field] While using very bright colors, and, I mean, these pieces are big.

Renee: There's no paint. There's no acrylics or oils. It's all pastel work. Almost see, the, the ridges on the crayon, or the ridges on the pencil? Yeah. Yeah. But his. His ability to capture a person's features is phenomenal. Winold's.

Gaby: [in the field] Darnell so you, you described feeling some heavy emotion. Was, was this another piece that brought you some of that?

Renee: Oh, yeah. White Calf is very prominent, a very most recognizable Blackfeet, because he's also the one on the Buffalo Nickel. But I remember him so distinctly. White Calf the old, old man was our neighbor. And he would come and he'd walk by us. And to see this original? It brought it brought me back tears to my eyes. So Two Guns is important. Very important to me.

Gaby: This portrait of Two Guns White Calf stands out to me. The colors aren't as bright, but his gaze is powerful. He isn't looking off to the side or down like most people are in the paintings. He looks directly at me.

Darnell: He's looking directly at us.

Gaby: [in the field] Directly at us.

Darnell: And it makes it more real. It makes it alive.

Gaby: [in the field] It feels really—it just feels more intimate.

Darnell: It does. You feel that connection through just a piece of art. So it is very powerful. Very, very powerful. White Calf will always be very special to me.

Gaby: As the museum curator, Renee helped name this exhibit Connections. It's all about the links between these portraits and the present day.

Renee: What do you want to connect? We're connecting the Great Northern Railway with Glacier National Park, Glacier National Park with Winold Reiss, Winold Reiss with the Blackfeet people, our Blackfeet people with their past. It's just a total connection.

Gaby: [in the field] Everything connects

Renee: Everything connects.

Darnell: It gives me the chills when Renee says "connections." That connection is strong. That connection is valuable.

Gaby: But when I ask her about the history of the portraits, she points out the relevance for future generations too.

Renee: So that's how we came up with that, the title connections. Our people are always looking towards future generations. What can we do to set things up for future generations of our people?

Darnell: One of the best things that could have ever happened is bringing Winold Reiss portraits here.

Gaby: [in the field] Home.

Darnell: Yeah, home. This is home. This is home.

Gaby: What I saw is a story looking backward, full of loops and repetitions and rhymes—they see as a connection to the future.

Darnell: If it wasn't for these portraits, we wouldn't be able to sit here and tell you stories about them. If they didn't happen.

Renee: Reiss, when he came here, he came here to do—he was hired to do portraits. But when he got here, he became so close to our people, he was accepted as just one of our own. Up the road is Red Blanket Hill, and Red Blanket Hill was always kind of a spiritual place for our people. So when Reiss passed away, he wanted to be cremated. My Grandpa—Great Grandpa George Bullchild took his ashes up to Red Blanket Hill and scattered them.

[sparse, pensive music begins to play]

Darnell: They gave him an Indian name. And his ashes are here to prove that—that he was part of this... this world, our world.

Gaby: It's tough to pinpoint what exactly changes when a place becomes a destination. Who brings a new narrative and who writes it down? Who profits and who gets remembered? A destination brings people and cultures together—publicists, painters and people trying to make a living. Some find power, some find meaning, and some leave a legacy.

Gaby: [in the field] After walking this exhibit like what kind of moves through you? How do you feel?

[music resumes, with an added beat layered over it]

Darnell: It is a piece of history now.

[sample from the old timey narration of the early 1900s promo video is layered over the music] Lyrics: And it’s like turning back the pages of history to watch them sing and dance. Sing and dance. Dance. Sing and dance. And it’s like turning back the pages of history to watch them sing and dance. Sing and dance. Dance. Sing and dance.

[haunting violin music plays softly under the credits]

Daniel: Headwaters is a production of Glacier National Park with support from our partner, the Glacier National Park Conservancy. This season of Headwaters was made by Daniel Lombardi, Peri Sasnett, Michael Faist, and Gaby Eseverri. Frank Waln wrote and performed our music, and Eric Carlson created this season's cover art. Special thanks this episode to Darnell Rides At The Door, Renee Bear Medicine, and the Museum of the Plains Indian. Ray Djuff, Scott Tanner, Cookie Zwang, and John Pepion and of course, Bill Schustrom and all his gossip. This season depended on a lot of hard work from Darren Lewis and Lacy Kowalski, and we always depend on help and support from Melissa Sladek, Sierra Mandelko, Brent Rowley, and the whole Glacier National Park archives team. And I also want to shout out the Conservancy's Virtual Book Club—we got a lot of great ideas from that. Thanks for listening.

Lacy: Next time on Headwaters.

Gaby: For nearly 50 years, there were no wolves in Glacier National Park… until one wolf bent the arc of history.

Michael Wise: One of the first, in a way, like cooperative, democratic kind of processes on the ground is like, okay, we all have to work together to kill wolves.

Diane Boyd: There's many parallels between wolves and humans in terms of a social structure. And sometimes I wonder if that if that bothers people.

Gaby: That's next time on Headwaters.

[music finishes]

Gaby: [to Andrew] Hey, Andrew.

Andrew Smith: Hey, Gaby.

Gaby: [to Andrew] So we are so lucky here that Headwaters is supported by the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

Andrew: Yeah.

Gaby: [to Andrew] But you guys do a lot of other work with the park too. What are some examples?

Andrew: Another project we're funding right now is protecting Glacier from emerging wildlife diseases.

Gaby: [to Andrew] Oh, cool. So that's work being done by park biologists that you're helping to fund. What diseases are we looking for?

Andrew: We're looking for a handful of diseases that have not yet been found in park wildlife, but we want to make sure we identify them right away if they do reach this area so we can take preventative measures.

Gaby: [to Andrew] So what kind of diseases are we talking about?

Andrew: So one is the rabbit hemorrhagic disease, which affects rabbits, but it also can affect pika [Gaby gasps] because they're lagamorphs, they're related to rabbits and hares.

Gaby: [to Andrew] Oh no!

Andrew: So whenever a dead rabbit is found in the park, it's tested for rabbit hemorrhagic disease, though it has not been detected yet in Glacier. They're also looking for avian influenza and chronic wasting disease, which affects ungulates, our deer and elk populations. And chronic wasting disease has been detected very close—within 20 miles of Glacier National Park. So now when we find dead deer, they actually will cut out the lymph nodes and send them to a lab to be tested, because that's the only way to determine if a deer has chronic wasting disease.

Gaby: [to Andrew] Wow. This sounds really important.

Andrew: Yeah, it's it's not the sexiest project, [both laugh] but it's so important for keeping our wildlife safe.

Gaby: [to Andrew] Absolutely. So if people want to learn more about this project or about the Glacier National Park Conservancy, where can they go?

Andrew: They can check out our website. Just type in glacier.org and you'll be there.

Bill: And then the chalets, you know, then he picked out eight sites in the park.

Gaby: [to Bill] Have you stayed at the chalets?

Bill: I did stay in the Prince of Wales, my wife and I stayed there one night.

Gaby: [to Bill] How was that?

Bill: Oh, it was elegant. It was all a bunch of high-rollers from Kalispell. So they said, “well, what all the poor people are doing today?” I looked at my wife and she looked at me, and we said, “here we are, baby!”

[everyone laughs]

This is the history of how a corporation marketed Glacier National Park into existence. We use art to study how the Blackfeet took control of their own histories.

Glacier Conservancy: https://glacier.org/headwaters Frank Waln music: https://www.instagram.com/frankwaln/ Eric Carlson art: https://www.instagram.com/esccarlson/ Behind the scenes pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmSxSe2J

See Winold Reiss’s Art: https://iacbmuseums-viewingroom.exhibit-e.art/viewing-room

Episode 10

Becoming | (Re)colonized

Transcript

Lacy Kowalski: Headwaters is brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

[car noise in the background]

Diane Boyd: With wolves, they're always they're always doing something you don't expect.

Gaby Eseverri: [in the field] That's a fun characteristic.

Diane: Yes.

Gaby: [in the field] Would you say you're like that at all?

Diane: Yes. [both laugh]

Gaby: This is Dr. Diane Boyd, a biologist who has spent her life studying wolves in northwest Montana.

Gaby: [in the field] Well, when you're younger, did you think you'd be you'd be here now?

Diane: No, I had no idea. You know, I came out here in 79 for a two year study, and here I am. But it stole my heart. The North Fork stole my heart, after being here and doing and living with... The wolf researchers in the grizzly bear researchers shared a cabin. And I mean, my first week out there, I was helping them trap radio collar grizzly bears! This girl from Minneapolis! My God. [laughs] I mean, how could you not fall in love with it?

Gaby: Riding in a truck up a dirt road, I'm thinking about all the people who have fallen under the spell of Glacier National Park, and I'm wondering if it'll capture me, too.

[pensive music begins]

Gaby: [in the field] So I've been here since January, and it was my first winter.

Diane: From Florida, and that's quite a change.

Gaby: [in the field] From Miami! [both laughing]

Diane: Oh, my god!

Gaby: [in the field] Palm trees and—

Diane: Good on you! Yeah.

Gaby: [in the field] My entire family was very nervous for me. They said, you're going to move to Montana. No one goes there right now.

Diane: Mind my asking how old you are?

Gaby: [in the field] I'm 24. I turn 24, I'm 23.

Diane: I came to the North Fork when I was 24.

Gaby: [in the field] I know, I know! Yeah when I was reading your story, I was so touched.

Diane: I had the same response. “Don't move there, there's nobody there. We're worried about you. You're going to die!” [both laughing]

Gaby: This landscape feels magical in the way that it pulls people in. But in Glacier's early years, rangers were intent on keeping some things out.

Diane: Things have changed a lot, but it's still the same ecosystem is still those all the same creatures, just more people.

[car noise fades out]

Daniel Lombardi Things have changed and not just in the North Fork. History is in some ways a method of keeping track as the world bends itself into new shapes. The arc of history is long. It stretches too far to see in one lifetime. But some say to have faith, to trust that this long arc bends toward justice, that each twist towards injustice is countered eventually by a turn back toward justice. [Headwaters season three begins; starting with flutes and a drumbeat] This episode is about two such bends in the arc of history. One more than a century passed and the other less than a lifetime ago.

[theme finishes playing]

Daniel: This is season three of Headwaters: Becoming. A collection of histories of how this place became what it is today. And this episode is all about wolves. And also about Gaby trying to see a wolf for herself.

Gaby: [laughing] It's about so much else, too.

Daniel: But you have been looking into the history and looking for wolves all year, right?

Gaby: There's just something about this story that grabbed my heart from the beginning.

Daniel: Yeah. So if you want to learn something new about Glacier, where's the best place to start?

Gaby: I think one of the best places to begin learning about this place is with the Glacier Institute.

Daniel: Ah. The Glacier Institute is Glacier National Park's official education partner. They have all kinds of classes that are open to the public. It's cool.

Gaby: Yeah, it is really cool. And I joined a wolf biology course taught by Dr. Diane Boyd.

[a springtime soundscape fades in—birds calling, Swainson’s thrushes singing]

Gaby: I'm awake before my alarm. It's 5 a.m.. The birds are singing. It's spring and Glacier. I grabbed my bear spray and binoculars and get ready for a day. I've been anticipating for a long time.

Diane: [teaching a course] Any questions before I begin? I just updated this last night, actually, so I got the most current information that I could find. Can everybody hear me? All right, we shall carry on. So I'm going to talk about 42 years of wolf recovery in Montana.

Gaby: And this is where I meet Diane, along with a dozen or so other people taking the class.

Diane: I'm Diane Boyd. A little background on me. I came from Minnesota. Yeah, you betcha. [she and the group laugh] If you can't hear it, I'm like Fargo alive here. I started working with wolves in 1977, and I came out here and did a Master's and a Ph.D. through the University of Montana. But I've kind of stayed through the thread of wolf recovery in all of these years.

Gaby: In the classroom, Diane gave us a wolf 101. My favorite thing that I learned is that wolves are highly social animals. They travel as a pack, they care for their young together, and they hunt together. But the part of the day I was looking forward to the most was the field trip.

Diane: We'll meet back here or the busses are, I guess in about 10 minutes. Please use the toilet. Gather your lunch.

Gaby: I ride with Diane, who has a big truck and a big dog named Benny, who hangs out in the back seat. We're headed to the North Fork, which is also where Diane lives in an off-grid cabin.

[car noise fades in]

Diane: [talking to Gaby] My favorite thing I'm doing this year, I have what I call the golden hour in about a half an hour before sunset, a half hour after I sit on my porch and I look to the west and I do nothing, I get a little bit melancholy of my friends who have died or moved on or whatever, but—of love lost, family or whatever. But it's all beautiful. And I feel so. Blessed privilege to be able to be there. I get grizzlies in my yard and wolf trucks on the road and go, wolf scat on my driveway and it just. I'm thankful. I'm pretty much at the end of everywhere, way beyond the Mecca of Polebridge.

Gaby: [to Diane] It's kind of going through some articles from the 1970s, 1980s, kind of a line that I remember was that you were going to the river and getting your own water and melting snow.

Diane: I still do. I don't have a well, I haven't been all in water today, actually, or tomorrow. Now from the river, there's artesian springs that come out about two miles from me. I figure it's my free gym membership. [both laugh] I don't know how many more years I can continue doing that. I'm almost 70, but I'm doing it!

Gaby: Diane's wearing a black baseball cap that says, follow your instincts on the back. It's a message for everyone that follows her. She doesn't need the reminder. She's been following her own instincts and wolves for a long time.

Diane: We just crossed over Coal Creek, and I remember how we used to go down to the river from your ski down to the river, put on our chest waders in the middle of winter, get out skis and then ski on the wolf tracks. And by the time we'd come back, the waders would be frozen solid, [Gaby gasps] you’d break the ice off of them. But that spot, it just triggered that memory. Now, I imagine that when I get old and get dementia, I can't remember peoples who I saw yesterday or what age. But I'm going to remember all these wolf adventures. [laughing] Don't you think?

Gaby: I do. And I don't doubt that she'll remember. I wonder if today will be one of those wolf adventures.

[birdsong; western tanager and varied thrushes singing]

Gaby: Since getting here in the winter, I've seen lots of deer and squirrels and a very elusive pine marten. But not any big animals yet.

[car door slams, people talk in the background]

Gaby: We huddle around the cars at the trailhead and Diane tells us it's pretty rare to see a wolf, especially with a group of this size. So I know it's not likely, but I can't help but hope for a bit of magic.

Diane: Gradual uphill, the last one quarter mile’s flat. Otherwise, it's a gradual uphill. And we’ll come into this beautiful old meadow and there's this massive, huge tree in the middle, I believe it's a Doug Fir—we’ll sit under it for lunch. And it's really wonderful. When we look out over there, there's a lake. We might see loons, we might see swans, we might see wolves. You never know, though.

Gaby: As we hike through the forest, she pokes her head into fallen trees and greets their inhabitants with a warm “hello!” And when you hike with any wildlife biologist, one thing they're always looking for is poop. But to be polite, they call it scat.

[footsteps walking, then pausing]

Diane: Okay, we got some scat. Scat. Yep. That one's different.

Gaby: So Glacier is home to over 70 species of mammals, ranging from the super tiny pygmy shrew to larger animals like coyotes, elk, bears and wolves.

Diane: So what we have here, I think, that's probably a coyote scat—it’s full of deer hair. You know, you're not supposed to handle scats because they contain echinococcus, as I was telling you. My tapeworm is my favorite friend. [chuckles] But it could be a small wolf, I suppose, but it's probably a coyote. So when you see a wolf scat, for sure you know.

Gaby: Wolves are larger than coyotes and so are their poops—ahem—so are there scats. While coyotes weigh about 35 pounds, wolves weigh about three times as much.

Gaby: [in the field] And so this is one of your favorite hikes.

Diane: I love this hike. It's short and sweet. And there's always rewards.

Gaby: [in the field] What do you mean by rewards?

Diane: Wildlife to be seen up at the top.

Gaby: [in the field] Is this one you used to do a lot, when you were starting out around here?

Diane: Yes. And I also used to hike into trap wolves here.

Gaby: Diane started trapping wolves in the late seventies in order to radio collar and track them. And she describes the process they used to set these big metal traps, which grabs the animal's leg without hurting them. It is elaborate, and the key is disguising any human smell.

Diane: When you boil them in alder bark, it smells like what's here. And then you always wear gloves. You kneel on a piece of cloth. The cloth sits in a box full of dirt. The traps are stored in a box full of dirt in the truck. There's all these precautions. They still know you're there. I mean.

Gaby: Despite taking so many precautions to disguise any human smell. Wolves are often too smart and sneaky to be caught in the traps.

Diane: I just feel the wolves are ultimately the smartest animal in the woods, and smarter than us sometimes. And I've had many a time where I've had a wolf trap perfectly disguised and been in the ground a while, and I'll come by and there will be a fresh wolves get like right here. It's like, “no!”

Gaby: And she points out the ground right in front of where the trap would have been. It was a chicken wolf outsmarting Diane's trap and adding a scat to insult.

Diane: So we're almost to the meadow now. “Yo bear! Okay.”

Gaby: The trail leaves the forest, and we arrive in a beautiful open meadow sloping down to a small lake. We find some ducks and a pair of loons. And we eat lunch under that massive tree. We get Diana, tell us more stories about chasing after wolves. But there's one thing missing.

Diane: So I just got to tell you, all this is, uh—so when the wolves used to breed about five miles south of here, we would see wolf scat on this trail all the time. And I haven't seen it this year, haven't seen it for a few years. But the wolves used this meadow a lot. Now, they aren't apparently here, but nobody knows because they're collared. I think they moved south.

Gaby: I knew the chances were slim, but I can't help feeling a bit let down. [wistful music begins to play] I would love to see a wolf myself. But because of their tense history with people, wolves are understandably secretive, so it isn't surprising that seeing one is so rare.

Daniel: So you didn't see a wolf with Diane?

Gaby: No. It's such a bummer, but I'm still sort of keeping my fingers crossed.

Daniel: I'll cross my mine for you, too.

Gaby: Thanks.

Daniel: I—I mean, they're special to see anywhere, I think. But they're. They're really hard to see in Glacier.

Gaby: Is it just because the landscape is so densely forested?

Daniel: I think that's a big part of it. But, you know, for decades it wasn't just like hard to see a wolf here. It was literally impossible because there were no wolves here at all.

Gaby: Because wolves were basically exterminated from the lower 48 in the 1900s.

Daniel: And I think it is generally underappreciated how wild it is that it was park rangers, it was the National Park Service that helped kill off wolves.

Gaby: It just blows my mind. It's the opposite of what I think of a national park doing today. I talked to an expert on the history of wolves to learn more about this.

Michael Wise: History—historians, or you know, just kind of everyday people thinking about the past, don't ordinarily include the nonhuman world as a historical agent, in the grand narratives, sweeping narratives that most people tell about the past.

Gaby: I called up Dr. Michael Wise, an environmental historian who studies the relationships between people and predators like wolves.

Gaby: [to Michael] So historically, where did wolves live and how many were there?

Michael: Well, historically, wolves lived all throughout North America and into South America, possibly, and all across Europe and Asia. I mean, even within the last thousand years, yeah, there were certainly wolves present in every single inch of the North American continent at one time or another.

Gaby: [to Michael] With wolf extermination, like when and where does this all start?

Michael: A lot of people often begin with is that there is this sort of timeless antagonism between wolves and men. So, wolf, eradication happens, you know, almost immediately with the arrival of the first English colonists to what's now the United States.

Gaby: The first recorded wolf bounty law in America was passed in Massachusetts in 1630, and other colonies followed suit. These early bounties were paid out in cash, tobacco, wine and corn. Basically, as soon as colonists arrived in North America, they were trying to exterminate wolves.

Michael: Yeah, I think that is a surprise to a lot of folks that one of the first, in a way, like cooperative, democratic kind of processes on the ground is like, “okay, we all have to work together to kill wolves.” And, you know, so I think that if there is an explanation, the simple explanation for this is that people started killing wolves when they started raising livestock.

Gaby: Montana established its first wolf bounty law in 1884, five years before it would become a state. By this time, cattle ranching was big business in Montana. As other usual food sources were killed off wolves turned to cows and other livestock. And not only did ranchers kill wolves threatening their herds, but the government backed a campaign to kill predators.

Gaby: [to Michael] How many wolves were killed in the 1800s and in the 1900s?

Michael: [sighs] Oh, boy. I mean, probably overall, millions over those two centuries. If we’re thinking about just Montana? Probably 50000 to 100000 in the 19th century. And maybe another 50,000 total in the early 20th century.

Gaby: It's easy to point to the livestock industry as being the beginning and end of wolf eradication. But the story isn't that simple.

Michael: But wolves don't kill as many livestock as livestock growers expect them to. And the cost of killing wolves greatly exceeds the amount of money that any livestock grower ever saved from losing stock to a wolf attacks. What I'm interested in then is why did there remains such a commitment to eradicating wolves?

Gaby: This went well beyond protecting livestock. Federal land managers killed wolves too, because they were invested in protecting prey animals like deer and elk—animals that people like to see and hunt.

Gaby: [to Michael] So economics is part of the story, you know, wolves killing livestock is part of the story. But it's really not the reason why people are doing this.

Michael: I think that ultimately there were remains today much more difficult to articulate and uneasy reasons why people want to kill wolves. And I think that is important to try to understand those reasons. Just for the same reason, I think it's really important to for us to articulate why we love wolves.

Gaby: Often, people killed wolves by lacing carcasses with a poison called strychnine. But many other animals, especially scavengers, came across the bait and died as well. [pensive music begins to play] Ultimately, though, killing wolves became a way to make a living. Professionals were called “wolfers.” While the bounties in the 1880s were only a couple of dollars, within a few decades, they were as high as $150. Adjusted for inflation, that's over $4,000 today. These bounties led to a lot of dead wolves, but they also backfired. Wolves became almost a kind of currency. People would try to trade in one wolf multiple times or in multiple states. There were cases of people raising wolves, farming them, basically only to kill them later for the bounties.

Michael: Wolfers did most of the killing, and then by the 1910s through the 1930s, the federal hunters killed the kind of holdouts, and because they were paid salaries, not really incentivized to cheat, they were a lot more effective at actually bringing wolf numbers, you know, throughout most of the country to zero. And, of course, you know that the National Park Service had its own predator control.

Daniel: The National Park Service was deadly serious about killing off wolves and other predators.

Gaby: Yeah, I found some letters about this in the archives written by the park superintendent in 1913. It all started when [chuckling] a nearby liquor store, for unknown reasons, had a coyote, and they start writing to the park superintendent asking if he wants it.

Daniel: These letters are amazing. So I think we should have Michael and Peri read a simplified version of them.

Gaby: Yeah. Here's the first one from Glacier superintendent asking for coyotes infected with mange.

[a drumbeat begins, setting off the letter readings]

Michael Faist (as park superintendent, reading letter): I am desirous of inoculating with mange some coyotes to turn loose here in the park with the idea that I may eventually kill off all the coyotes in the park in that manner. Will you advise me as to where I can get preparation of this disease?

[drumbeat ends]

Gaby: So they write back and say, Sure, we have mangy coyotes for you. No charge.

[drumbeat begins]

Peri Sasnett (reading letter): I got your letter and beg to advise you that there's a good supply of mangy coyotes. We will furnish you with the number of coyotes you desire free of charge.

[drumbeat ends]

Daniel: So mange, this is a parasitic skin disease and it's often lethal for wolves and coyotes. I think it's the same as scabies in people, but it is highly contagious, especially for social animals like wolves. And by all accounts, it seems like a really horrible way to die.

Gaby: Exactly. And the dark idea here, pushed by the park superintendent, was to intentionally spread this disease through the local populations.

Daniel: So it seems to me like his—his thinking was that shooting and trapping these predators, that's fine. But maybe there's a more effective way to wage war.

Gaby: Right. And at this point, already most of the wolves have been killed off. So now enemy number two becomes coyotes, and the park wants to get rid of them in the same way.

Daniel: Yeah. And there were all kinds of programs and laws laid out to specifically try out this kind of biological warfare against wolves. In 1905, Montana passed a law even, requiring the state vet to infect wolves with mange to try and increase its spread.

Gaby: Here's some more letters back and forth from the superintendent asking people to send him mangy coyotes.

[drumbeat begins again]

Michael (as park superintendent): I'd be glad to have you send me to mangy coyotes. I believe this will be enough, as I already have four which I can infect from the ones that you send.

Peri (reading letter): Am shipping to coyotes today. Please distribute as far as possible from habitation.

[drumbeat ends]

Gaby: And then the park superintendent starts hitting some red tape.

Daniel: The Department of Interior writes to the park superintendent and says, “stop doing this because there's not strong enough evidence as to whether or not it's effective.”

Gaby: There ends up being dozens of letters back and forth where the park superintendent is trying to get permission to spread mange through Glacier. In the end, it doesn't work out—not because of the cruelty of it, but just because his bosses aren't convinced it'll work.

Daniel: So now the superintendent is embarrassed that his plan has fallen apart and he has half a dozen coyotes in a cage, and he has to mail them back to where he got them.

[drumbeat begins again]

Michael (as park superintendent, reading letter): I assure you, I have no doubt in the efficacy and safety of your method for exterminating the coyote by the inoculation of wolf mange. But for now, I have to postpone my plan. I hope to take it up later, proceeding with the inoculation next spring. But I have decided to return the coyotes. I appreciate the interest and trouble you've taken. P.S. I'm sorry to inform you, one of the mangy coyotes died last night.

[drumbeat finishes]

Gaby: Then the superintendent shoots off one more letter.

[drumbeat begins again]

Michael (as park superintendent, reading letter): The department has refused to allow me to exterminate the coyotes by mange. Instead, I must resort to poison. Can you advise me where you get your strychnine and possibly send me a pound?

Narrator from an old timey film: [flutes and other instruments layer in over the beat] Even in Glacier National Park, Predator Control Rangers shot and trapped so-called “bad animals” like the wolf and grizzly bear because they posed a threat to visitors. Even in Glacier National Park, Predator Control Rangers shot and trapped so-called bad animals like the wolves and grizzly bear because they posed a threat to visitors.

[music finishes and fades out]

Daniel: So the National Park Service has a different approach to wolves now.

Gaby: And really, all apex predators. We understand them to be essential parts of the ecosystem.

Daniel: As early as the 1920s and the 1930s, park naturalists and scientists were questioning the idea that predator control was necessary at all.

Gaby: George Melendez Wright was one of the first to set up studies that systematically gathered data on wildlife in a lot of national parks.

Daniel: A few decades later, in 1963, the Leopold Report came out and that pushed everything even further.

Gaby: It found that in the absence of natural predators, populations of prey animals like deer and elk were getting out of hand in some parks.

Daniel: And instead of humans culling or hunting excess animals, the Leopold report advocated for natural predation as the best way to keep ecosystems in balance. For example, let the wolves hunt the deer or the elk and keep populations in check like that.

Gaby: It was a really big step at the time, but it's hard to imagine anything different now, some 60 years later.

[wistful music begins]

Gaby: Conservationist Aldo Leopold described the loss of wolves as the snuffing of a fierce green flame. Another writer, Barry Lopez, simply said that dead wolves were what Manifest Destiny cost.

Michael Wise: What wolf eradication really accomplished was that it was a way of laying title to the American West, as a way of laying—laying title to the Northern Rockies. So killing wolves, above all, is a ceremonial possession of taking over this space. It was, it was central to the colonial process, if one of these central American historical narratives is the winning of the West and the sort of conquest of man over nature. But the reality is nature never got conquered.

Gaby: A few decades into the 1900s, wolves have pretty much disappeared from the landscape, including Glacier National Park. The park was still a beautiful place, full of wildlife. But there were no wolves here anymore. Gone were the tracks in soft snow, the kills that provided food for scavengers…. the howls in the early morning light.

Michael: Yeah like everybody—everybody who says they love wolves, I love wolves but I don't really know why. [subtle drumbeat begins] I'm working to be a wolf lover is maybe a better and more honest description. And what I mean by that is that I don't just love the idea of wolves, you know, I want to be able to love wolves for who they are, even when they do stuff you don't like. Not just love wolves, because I think it's cool that they howl or, or because they make me feel like there's still wildness that's present. Ultimately, rather than vilifying wolves, that lets us off the hook too much. It’s probably just better for us to acknowledge our human footprints on the world, and acknowledge that in order to sustain ourselves, we have to incur a certain amount of violence and destruction upon the world that we inhabit. And it's not possible to live otherwise. But maybe, you know, by thinking of ourselves more like wolves and less like the things that are better than wolves, we can come up with a more honest accounting of our actual impacts.

[pensive music continues]

Diane: Wolves live in the old world, the new world. They live from the Arctic to the desert. They live in every biome. And I find it interesting that we as a species can't respect that. There's many parallels between wolves and humans in terms of a social structure. And sometimes I wonder if that if that bothers people. And that is part of the cultural misunderstanding, that we're too much alike.

Gaby: Diane gives me a tour of her cabin and pulls out photos of when she and her friends were building it.

Gaby: [to Diane] Is this you?

Diane: Yeah! [laughing] When I was… ahem… 40 years younger than I am now, though.

Gaby: [to Diane] Is that your little outhouse?

Diane: Yeah! That was my first thing I ever built in my life, was my outhouse. And I thought, “yeah, I built an outhouse. I can build a cabin!” [both laugh]

Gaby: In her small cabin, she has more art of wolves than I have seen in my life. Cast irons hanging from the ceiling, a bathtub is next to the front door, and there are three very conveniently placed dog beds for Benny. My favorite thing about her cabin, though, are the skeletons in her closet.

Diane: All of these shelves were full of skulls. Wolf skulls, bear skulls, lion skulls. And I put them away because I had to put my stuff somewhere. Me and my all my thirty dead friends. [both laughing]

Gaby: We sat down and talked about wolves all afternoon over several cups of tea.

Diane: My job, my role is to be in the middle and try and do what I can to promote the conservation through good science. That's how I feel. Sorry it's get me all choked up.

Gaby: [to Diane] You spend so much time with them, I mean.

Diane: Lot of years, and I'm not done yet either.

Gaby: But after studying them and talking to people about wolves and wolf policy for the last 40 years, Diane still wonders what exactly it is about wolves that brings this out in people. What made early park rangers want to wage biological warfare against them?

Diane: So it's not just it's kind of a pathological hatred. It goes way beyond way beyond any rational realm of dealing with a livestock depredation issue. They just killed every one. So I think there's just a cultural fear. Just get rid of the get rid of the wolves. Get rid of the buffalo. Get rid of the Indians. I just think “clean out the West, make it safe for us white folks to bring in our domestic livestock and our families.” It's a terrible paradigm. It's—it's a terrible thing we've done. It's a just a tragedy. But that's how it was.

Gaby: Those early rangers who shot and poisoned predators probably thought they were doing the right thing, trying to bend the arc of the universe in a better direction. But the universe had its own plans.

Diane: So I have gone from that culture where being when I was young, all the wolves would kill off. Then when I got here, there were so few of them.

Gaby: By the time Diane arrived in the late seventies, wolves had been gone for about 50 years. But something changed in 1979. A single secretive wolf arrived. [subtle music begins playing, adding a sense of wonder] This was not a reintroduction. This was a natural recolonization. This wolf became known as Kishinena.

Diane: When I came along in 79, we had one wolf that had made it down from Canada--

Gaby: [to Diane] Kishinena.

Diane: Yes, Kishenina. And we put a radio collar on her. Yeah. And that was kind of my beginnings. We caught her in April 4th, 1979, put a radio collar on her just north of Glacier Park. She had to walk quite a ways, and I'm betting the wolves were killed out of Banff, Waterton, all of that area. I'm betting she came from probably Jasper, which is quite a long hike down here by foot without having been killed enroute. She, she successfully traversed that gauntlet without being seen or eating poison. It was pretty amazing.

Gaby: [to Diane] She was amazing from the start. She beat all the odds.

Diane: I know.

Gaby: Despite a century of persecution, despite all the killing, one wolf was able to bend history.

Diane: But she was really a different wolf, than the other wolves, in terms of being afraid—and not afraid, but smart and cautious. Clever and cautious. And that's why she lived. So she kind of was the first. And then she eventually ended up tiptoeing down into the park a little bit. She eventually she found a mate, and Jerry DeSanto and Steve Frey of Glacier Park—historical rangers—found tracks in 1981 of a female wolf in heat, which I'm sure was Kishenina, you know, with a three toed male who is missing one toe. And actually, I have a plaster cast of his track upstairs. And that spring, a female wolf down right near where we had caught Kishenina. The male died right away in June. And so she had to raise these seven pups by herself. I didn't think she'd be able to do it. You know, if you've ever raised a puppy, they’re constant care! And thinking about having seven little fuzzy meatballs, running around in there, [laughing] they’re looking at all kinds of dangers every day, and you have to leave them! To go hunt. There's nobody to babysit them. They all survived. It was a miracle. It's just magical.

[a subtle beat plays]

Gaby: These eight wolves became Glacier's dream team, and soon enough, one of those pups became a star player, a breeding female named Phyllis.

Diane: So now we've got two breedings, and just in Canada. But these wolves came down into Kintla Lake in the northwest corner of the park quite a bit, and eventually they moved down into the park. In 86, Phyllis denned in the park—first time documented wolves breeding in the park in 50 years. That was 1986. We started calling them the Magic Park because it was magical that they had survived, its magic that they were there, it was kind of magic that they just showed up and claimed their territory and stayed.

Gaby: [to Diane] I love that they're called the Magic Pack. [both laugh] I think that is such a great name for, for what they represent. But what are they what do they mean to wolf recolonization in Montana and Glacier? I mean, they are this like hopeful story to me. What was that like?

Diane: It was amazing, especially when they moved south into the park. And that's where they started denning, they denned there that year and the next year and almost every year since. And out of that, from that pack butted many dispersers, and more wolves made that hike down from Canada. And suddenly we had packs all over, and they were the source. They were the beginning, the the springboard to that launched recovery. I mean, I never in my deepest dreams would have fathomed that it would be this successful. So that's amazing to me. Still is. And still it excites me just as much as seeing them out there.

Peri: [to Diane] Was there a moment when you, like, realized they were kind of here for good?

Diane: When we started going from one pack to four packs and then two more in Canada, and then pretty soon we're monitoring seven packs and it’s like, “Oh, this thing's catching on.” [laughing]

Gaby: [to Diane] This is a lot more than one wolf!

Diane: Yeah. And then they were kept going further and further, and then they'd find other wolves in these distant places. It's like, “Yeah, now we're here to stay.” Yeah.

Gaby: [to Diane] What do you see coming?

Diane: The future for wolves?

Gaby: [to Diane] Yeah.

Diane: If we will tolerate them, they will always be here. It's strictly about us. They live in Saudi Arabia. They live in the Canadian Arctic. Only thing that stops them is humans. It's just really simple.

Gaby: [to Diane] So do you think our relationship with wolves will change?

Diane: Hmm. I was kinda hoping it’d change in my lifetime, but it hasn't. So that's been really disappointing. That's the hardest thing. Yeah. Wolves are survivors. I don’t know about us.

[a pause, and a short, joyful snippet of music starts to play]

Gaby: And then, just as I'm about to ask Diane another question, her eyes go wide. Her mouth drops open and her arm shoots up, pointing out the window. I look down the driveway past the outhouse, and I see two eyes looking back.

Gaby: [to Diane] It was right there walking

Diane: There was a black wolf walking through my yard! I’m not kidding you. Let’s try not to scare it

[rustling of furniture moving]

Gaby: My heart is pounding.

Diane: [with a sense of wonder] Wow. Oh, my God. You guys are good charms.

Gaby: [slowly, emotionally] It's a magical moment. And for a few seconds, I'm under its spell. Our arcs bending together.

Peri: Is that the first wolf you've ever seen Gaby?

Gaby: [to Peri] Yeah.

Diane: Right at my house?! [laughing]

Gaby: [to Diane and Peri] Yeah. How special is that?

Diane: My heart is still pounding.

Gaby: [to Diane] Yeah, me too. I haven't totally processed that. [all laughing in disbelief] First time I see a wolf.

Diane: At Diane Boyd’s house!

Gaby: [to Diane] With Diane Boyd!

Peri: I know! [all laugh]

Diane: How fun is that? He was walking right down the driveway and then cut over. You saw—did you see him in the driveway?

Gaby: [to Diane] Mmhmm.

Diane: Yeah you got a good view of him then. I was just so shocked to see that.

Gaby: [to Diane] I love that we went on a wolf course with the Glacier Institute and hiked and looked and all that. And here we are, just in your house, just talking and—and we get a sighting.

Diane: It's amazing. It's just—that was one of the biggest joys of the year. Maybe the biggest joy in several years is to just see a wolf in the wild and just doing his thing, walking through the forest on my land. And anyway—oh, sorry. I'm just. I'm still high from seeing that wolf. Like, after all these years. Can you believe that?! My God. Wow. [all laughing]

Gaby: [to Diane] I love that. Every sighting is just as exciting as the first time.

[subtle, sparse music begins to play]

Gaby: It's tempting to credit fate for seeing it here, of all places, with Diane, of all people. But I suppose I'll never know what brought it here. What arc it's on that crossed with my own.

[wolves howl in the background]

Lora Funk (reading as Kishinena): Since ancient times, my kind has shared the northern world with humans—sometimes as friends, other times as rivals. Our relationship a long pendulum swinging in an arc from peace to war. I was born into a time of war. This is well known. But what force of gravity pulls the swing from one direction to the other? This is less known, but they say it can be sensed in the wind. [winter wind howling] I sniff the air. Under a winter moon, a new smell blows from the south. So I follow it. I was born in the time of war, but perhaps I can live to see a time of friendship. [more energetic electronic music begins to play] For nine days and nine nights I trot south alone, following my nose. It leads me to a land of icy mountains. At night I howl below glaciers and only my echo calls back. [a quiet howl] I'm alone here except for the humans. They follow my tracks and I follow theirs. We inspect each other from a distance in an uneasy peace. [a Wilson’s snipe winnowing] The night I'm captured, I realize the war is not over. Not at all. I expect they will kill me. Surviving an encounter with their kind is unknown. Instead, the humans are gentle. They fit me with a collar and let me go. Then one night, my howls are answered, and I'm no longer alone. Before long. I'm tending a den of pups, and then I'm really not alone. I teach my pups to be wary, to stay hidden, but also that they are born into an era of change. [music resumes] The war is not over and they are not our friends, yet. But the arc is bending once again. [wolves howl as the music fades out]

Daniel: Headwaters is a production of Glacier National Park, with support from our partner, the Glacier National Park Conservancy. This season of Headwaters was made by me, Daniel Lombardi, along with Peri Sasnett, Michael Faist, and Gaby Eseverri. Frank Waln wrote and performed our music. Eric Carlson created this season's cover art. Special thanks this episode to Emma Hilliard and Eric Goodin, and of course Lora Funk. We couldn't have made this episode without Dr. Diane Boyd and Dr. Michael Wise. Thank you to all the wolves. And also a special shout out to the Glacier Institute, the park's official education partner. Check them out at GlacierInstitute.org. This season also depended on a lot of hard work from Darren Lewis and Lacy Kowalski. And we always depend on help and support from Melissa Sladek, Sierra Mandelko, Brent Rowley, and the whole team at the Glacier National Park Archives. I also want to shout out the Conservancy's Virtual Book Club. We got a lot of great ideas from them. Thanks for listening.

Peri: So Andrew, Headwaters couldn't happen without the Glacier National Park Conservancy. Hmm. But you guys also support so many other amazing projects in the park.

Andrew Smith: Yeah, one we're excited about that's coming up this summer is the nocturnal pollinator BioBlitz.

Peri: What's a nocturnal pollinator?

Andrew: A nocturnal pollinator is like a moth or something—an insect that pollinates plants at night. So we know how important pollinators are, and a lot of the concerns that scientists have about the loss of pollinators. But the nocturnal pollinators in Glacier are not super well understood. So next summer, there's going to be three nights where people will be out observing pollinators. And we're going to try to get as big a list as possible of all these pollinators so we can understand how they're affected by climate change and changes in the night sky and can help direct policy here in Glacier National Park.

Peri: Sounds like something worth staying up for.

Andrew: Absolutely.

Peri: And if people want to learn more?

Andrew: They can check out our website. It's really easy to remember, you just go to Glacier.org.

Peri: Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew: You're welcome.

A young national park wages biological warfare and nature finds a way. This is a history of wolves in Glacier.

Glacier Conservancy: https://glacier.org/headwaters Frank Waln music: https://www.instagram.com/frankwaln/ Eric Carlson art: https://www.instagram.com/esccarlson/ Behind the scenes pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmSxSe2J

Sign up for a Glacier Institute course: https://glacierinstitute.org/

Season 2

Season 2 Trailer

Whitebark Pine | Trailer

Transcript

Season Two documents the generational effort to restore whitebark pine in five chapters. It’s also a story about the purpose of national parks and our relationship with nature. We ask, can people have a positive impact on their environment? Coming January, 2022.

Peri [00:00:00] If you've ever been to Glacier National Park, you've seen a lot of trees.

Peri [00:00:06] Have you ever heard of a white bark pine?

Hiker [00:00:09] No!

Peri [00:00:10] I'm Peri. And in season two of Headwaters, the Glacier National Park podcast, I set out to understand the most important tree that you've never heard of.

Expert 1 [00:00:19] And we could lose the tree. A lot of forests are in big trouble.

Expert 2 [00:00:23] I'm telling you it was like bombs had gone off all over the whitebark pine stand.

Peri [00:00:30] In this five-part series I'll learn why these trees are so critical, why they're dying, and meet the people trying to save them.

Expert 3 [00:00:35] The musclebound jocks from the university were now carrying cans of poison on their backs and squirting that poison right into the white pine trees, trying to save them.

Peri [00:00:48] All that and more, in season two of Headwaters.

Season Two documents the generational effort to restore whitebark pine in five chapters. It’s also a story about the purpose of national parks and our relationship with nature. We ask, can people have a positive impact on their environment? Coming January, 2022.

Episode 1

Whitebark Pine | Chapter One

Transcript

Lacy: Headwaters is brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

[harsh, scratchy calls of a Clark’s nutcracker]

[pensive piano music begins]

ShiNaasha: This tree knows a lot about me. Every time I do come up here, I'll pray to it. I'll talk, I'll cry.

Mike: You met Ilawye. So that's you know, to me, the other side of that. I mean, Ilawye is not alive, but it still has to me, it's like power or spirit. Just when I talk about it, I mean, I get kinda the goosebumps and the chills. But being able to put your hand on it or even hug it, and just knowing that this tree has been here for over a thousand years.

ShiNaasha: This tree has been here longer than me and knows more than me. It's like a lifeline. It's like a lifeline to that, to that other side, to that spiritual realm, you could even say. Imagine if we were to lose this tree, this species—you lose a lot more than just a tree.

[music slowly fades out]

Peri: This story begins on top of a mountain, sitting at the foot of the largest whitebark pine tree I've ever seen. It's called Ilawye, the Great, Great Grandparent Tree. I feel a sense of awe at this tree and what it's seen over the years, and I'm wondering how many generations of trees have grown from its seeds. But this tree is dead, like so many other whitebark pines. More than half of all the whitebark in Glacier National Park and across the western U.S. have died, and we're losing more each day. [Headwaters Season 2 theme begins to play: somber piano music] Meeting Ilawye was my introduction to whitebark pine and the start of a relationship I didn't expect.

[music fades out as Peri starts talking again]

Peri: My name is Peri, and this is season two of Headwaters, a five episode story about my journey with a tree over the course of a summer in Glacier National Park. But this story is about so much more than whitebark pine—it's also a story about the purpose of national parks and our relationship with the places we love.

Andrew: Hi, this is Andrew.

Michael: And I'm Michael. We're all rangers here in Glacier.

Andrew: You don't need to listen to season one to understand this story, but if you're planning a visit to the park, last season will be a great place to start.

Michael: This season is all about whitebark pine, an incredible tree that could soon disappear. Over the course of five chapters we'll learn why it matters, why it's dying, and meet the people fighting to save it.

Peri: It's about a lot more than just a tree. Let's start simply, though. [sounds of a pencil scribbling on paper] Here's Claire Emery, who created the cover art for our podcast this year. We went into the park to find and sketch some of these trees.

[quiet, pensive guitar music begins playing]

Claire: One of the things that caught my eye first about whitebark pine was the silver branches that all reach in the same direction to model what way the wind is blowing, and how they would all just… “phewsh.” It's like they're all, it's like they're flying in the wind, but they're... but they're not moving, you know, and how can they be both at once? It's just so amazing to me that something so static can look so alive.

Peri: When I think of conifers, I usually picture a Christmas tree shape—that classic spruce or fir silhouette. But whitebark pines aren't really like that. They sort of have a wise old, tough look about them. The tops are bushy, with their branches reaching up like a candelabra, and they're not too big as far as trees go. The tallest ones are about 50 feet tall and their bark is white-ish gray—hence the name. Whitebark is part of a group of closely-related trees called five-needle pines, just like the western white pine and limber pine, which also grow in Glacier. What sets whitebark apart, though, is that they only grow at high elevation near treeline, that they have tasty, nutritious seeds, and that they can live for over a thousand years.

Claire: I actually think that's the thing that's the most compelling about it is that it's like... It looks... it is this embodiment of vitality. The shape of those branches, the twist of the wood. It just—they're muscular. They're strong, they're beautiful and they're graceful. They're all of it.

Peri: [in the field] Like a dancer.

Claire: Yeah, yeah. Like a wind poem. I think seeing their brushiness in life, their tuftiness in life—and then their silver poetry in death. [drawing sounds] I think that they're kind of a nice combination of both of those things.

[fun, jaunty piano music begins, marking a transition]

[bird sounds and footsteps begin to play]

Peri: So I'm walking up the Piegan Pass Trail, which is a place in Glacier with a lot of beautiful whitebark pines, and I'm hoping to see how many park visitors have even heard of this tree.

Peri: [in the field] So have you guys heard of whitebark pine?

Visitor 1: No.

Visitor 2: No.

Peri: [in the field] Have you ever heard of a whitebark pine?

Visitor 3: No.

Visitor 4: Uh, no.

Visitor 5: White pine, for sure.

Visitor 6: Yeah, but I don't know if I could identify it.

Peri: [in the field] Have you heard of whitebark pine?

Visitor 7: I have not.

Visitor 8: You graciously pointed one out, however, had you not pointed one out, I would have been clueless.

[music finishes, marking a transition]

Kaylin: 99.9 percent of visitors that attend my program have no idea what a whitebark pine is.

Peri: That's Kaylin Brennan, who's an interpretive park ranger here. She does her evening campfire program on whitebark pine. And for a lot of park visitors, that's their first introduction to this species.

[expansive synth music begins to play]

Kaylin: [giving an interpretive program] So you come around this corner, right when you're getting really tired, you're so ready to take a break. You come around this corner, you see this tree, and it looks like it's floating above the trail, and you're like, “whoa.” So you sit down underneath this tree. It's about 20 to 30 feet high and you hear this bird, you watch it fly to the top of this tree. [Clark’s nutcracker calls] That's the Clark's nutcracker.

Kaylin: [in an interview setting] The trees don't get as much recognition as all the other animals and aspects of Glacier, but yet they're the foundation of all of that.

Peri: Kaylin has been doing her evening program about whitebark pine since her very first season 12 years ago. When she heard we were doing a whole season of the podcast about this tree she couldn't wait to talk to us.

Kaylin: I was wildly excited, like jumping up and down, excited. I was just excited that a bigger audience could learn about the story of this tree.

Peri: [in the field] So you've been giving this program for, what, 12 years now? What do you hope that visitors take away from this story?

Kaylin: I think it's that when humans choose to make a positive impact on the landscape and come together, we can.

Peri: So Andrew, what do you think about that?

Andrew: It's a really nice sentiment. You know, I think it's a pretty commonly held belief that in nature, humans are a bad influence, that we're a virus on the planet.

Peri: I mean, that was more or less the reason behind creating the National Park Service, right?

Andrew: Yeah. There's this idea that in order to keep a place wild and to keep it natural, you have to keep humans out of it. Right? Like a national park.

Peri: Right, or a national forest or...

Andrew: ...a wilderness area.

Peri: Sure.

Andrew: But this is a fairly recent conception, maybe only in the last hundred years have we started to think this way. Once these areas seemed like a limited resource, it became popular to try to protect them by excluding people. It's an idea called fortress conservation,

Peri: like trying to keep that place quote unquote pristine.

Andrew: Yeah, keeping that human influence out because it's seen as a bad thing. But Kaylin seems to think that whitebark pine tells a different story.

[echoes of Headwaters Season 2 theme playing]

Peri: So as I begin this project, I really don't know whitebark pine very well, and most other people don't either. But those who do know these trees love them. And I wanted to find out why.

Peri: [in a car] We've been driving south through the Flathead Valley down onto the Flathead Reservation.

Peri: It's my first day working on Glacier National Park's podcast. But the park is in the rearview mirror.

Michael: [in a car] First field day!

Peri: [in a car] First field day!

Peri: The stories we tell on this show revolve around Glacier, but whitebark pine doesn't recognize lines on a map. These trees are a key piece of the park, but they also occur throughout the Crown of the Continent Ecosystem, which Glacier is just a tiny piece of, and at high elevations throughout western North America.

Andrew: [in a car] I think we're going to make a turn in three miles off of the main highway.

Peri: So today we're driving across the Flathead Indian Reservation. It's even bigger than the park, and it covers a lot of Flathead Lake and the Mission Mountains. The reservation was established in 1855 and is home to the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes, or CKST. I'm here because I'm curious what it's like to have a relationship with whitebark pine that goes back thousands of years. To find out, I spoke with Tony Incashola Jr., the head of the CSKT Forestry Department.

Tony: Whitebark pine is a first food for us.

Peri: Mike Duglo Jr., who is the head of the Tribal Historic Preservation Department, joined our conversation as well.

Mike: The story that I've heard is that when we went over Lolo Pass, for instance, they would gather some of the cones that had fallen on the ground and put them by the fire. And when those roasted up and were made easier to open, then they would eat those seeds.

Peri: So I asked if they'd tried whitebark pine seeds themselves.

Tony: Yeah, it's—it's very, very tasty, very good. And that's kind of our goal is to collect enough seeds not only for our reforestation efforts, but also to help introduce it into our cultural feeds again.

Peri: Mike said he hadn't, but—

Mike: I'm looking forward to, you know, having that little bit of a taste someday, too.

Peri: I hadn't heard the term first foods before, so I asked Tony if he could explain that.

Tony: So first food, it's a traditional food for our tribe. Our tribe would follow the seasons nomadically, so to say, and harvest different plants and roots and berries at different seasons of the year. And so first foods would be something our tribe would traditionally use in their diet.

Peri: So in addition to these trees carrying nutritious seeds, they also carry stories and cultural meaning.

Tony: The culture committee has hundreds, thousands of hours of tapes where they've recorded elders and learned from them and their conversations, kind of like we're doing right now, to preserve those stories and that history. And they, they let us know that historically those were used on hunting trips, camping trips and just generally in those high elevation areas. You know, I like to call our tribe a forest tribe. A lot of our ceremonies, a lot of our traditions happen in the forest and especially the high elevation forest—it holds a special meaning for us.

[car noise]

Michael: [in the car] Peri, where are we?

Peri: [in the car] We're several miles up a forest road towards Ilawye.

Peri: A forester with the CSKT Forestry Department named ShiNaasha Pete kindly offered to take us up to meet Ilawye, the Great, Great Grandparent Tree.

Michael: [in the car] How would you describe the road?

Peri: [in the car] It's been pretty bumpy, pretty windy. Some big drop offs on one side, which I didn't love.

[beeping sounds as the car parks]

Daniel: So you think this is it?

Michael: Must be.

Peri: I mean, I hope so.

[seatbelts unbuckling, doors opening]

Peri: We made it!

ShiNaasha: I know, that is such a haul.

Peri: It is a haul!

ShiNaasha: Yá’át’ééh, I am ShiNaasha Pete. I am Navajo and Shawnee. I am a reforestation forester for the CSKT tribal forestry. I've been working on whitebark pine since 2014, as an intern graduating out of SKC, which is Salish Kootenai College, and I am very blessed to be working for the tribal forestry now.

Peri: I have this mental image of foresters as gruff, no nonsense types of folks who carry hatchets and are covered in tree sap.

Andrew: [in the field] Were you into trees and plants and stuff even as a little kid?

ShiNaasha: Oh my gosh, yes, [laughing] I was such a nerd. My friends would be like, “Do you want to go ride bikes and go over to the playground?” And I'd be like, “Do you guys want to go collect mint? I found this really nice patch and we can make sun teas!” And they're like, “what?”

[everyone laughs]

Peri: In a cruel twist of fate for a forester who works on pines, ShiNaasha has a pretty vicious pine allergy.

ShiNaasha: I have a real honker, too. [laughing] It's like “what's that goose in the background? Some goose in the mountain, a mountain goose!”

[everyone laughs]

Peri: ShiNaasha is incredibly bubbly. Like, she jumps back and forth between rattling off scientific names of the plants we're seeing, telling stories about her son, and how different generations of her family are connected to trees.

[pensive, sparse acoustic guitar music begins to play]

ShiNaasha: My grandpa, he was a logger. And so, yeah, so on my maternal side of the family, my grandpa had a logging business, and everybody worked in it. My grandpa, you know, he'd come home and he'd smell like chainsaw and trees and the forest, and I loved it, it was Grandpa. He talked about whitebarks, big whitebark back in the day. How huge it was. It was really cool actually to hear his stories about it and him seeing it and and how, you know, even then, he didn't ever cut it. And then my grandma, she would do all the books and stuff like that. So she was always at home. And when I would hang out, we would go for these long walks in the woods. She would teach me all the trees and all the species, and we'd pick flowers and make bouquets.

Peri: Now ShiNaasha is the one passing this knowledge on to a new generation.

Michael: How old did you say your son was?

ShiNaasha: He's 12.

Michael: What does he think about what you do?

ShiNaasha: I go, “Let's go on a hike.” “No.” “No? Come on!” “Every time we go for a hike, it just turns into a plant lesson.” [laughs] But yeah, he sees that I love it. But what's really cool with him is I can connect it to the cultural side. And then it's more of like, okay, you know, instead of like, “Oh yeah, that's cool.” That's more just like, like understanding or like a realization like, “Oh okay, that that's why—the purpose of it.”

Peri: [in the field] So it's not just trivia, like, “that's what this plant is.” That's why this matters.

ShiNaasha: Exactly.

Peri: She now focuses her work on whitebark pine.

[music finishes playing]

ShiNaasha: When this project started to come together and they brought elders together to talk about the cultural component of whitebark pine, there was an elder from up on Blackfeet country, and it took him a while to remember the name. If you lose the tree, then, yeah, you can lose that story. And then when you lose that story about the tree, then you're going to lose the story about the nutcracker.

Peri: That's the bird that feeds on whitebark pine seeds.

ShiNaasha: It continues on and on. So if we lose whitebark culturally, then like I say, you're going to lose those lessons.

Peri: Glacier is home to Native America Speaks, or NAS, which is the longest running indigenous speaker series in the National Park Service. And like this podcast, NAS is funded by the Glacier National Park Conservancy. The program includes over 100 events each year, bringing together speakers from the Flathead Reservation where ShiNaasha, Mike, and Tony live, and from the Blackfeet Reservation to the east of the park. I spoke with one of the NAS presenters, Robert Hall, just before one of his talks in Two Medicine.

Robert: [Speaking Blackfeet] nō´m˝ṫoōṫoō ǎmssk̇ǎaṗiiṗiik̇ǔni, niṫtsiṫō´ṗii iiṫo´nnyō´•ṗ´. My name is Robert Hall—well… [introduces himself in Blackfeet] and my white name is Robert Hall, and I grew up on the Blackfeet Reservation, and I live in Browning, Montana.

Peri: Robert works on Blackfeet Language revitalization, and I wanted to get his perspective. And the first thing I wanted to know was the word for whitebark pine.

[quiet piano music begins to play, building throughout the conversation with Robert]

Robert: The pine tree is ṗǎa˝ṫo´k̇ii. What it means, it just means pine tree, and then the woodpecker ṗǎa˝ṫō˝ksissis.

Peri: [in the field] Is that the same as Clark's nutcracker?

Robert: Pretty much, and if you want to get more specific, you know, and someone would say, tsǎ ǎnissṫǎapsii ṗǎa˝ṫō˝ksissis, what kind of woodpecker? You just say sikssk̇ii, it's got a black face, right? And what it means is, all it means is like a pounding nose.

[Robert tapping his finger on the wooden bench to demonstrate the woodpecker’s pounding nose]

Peri: [in the field, laughing] Very appropriate.

Robert: So again, there's a kind of a little insight, if you will, of how our language is focused on what things do, to an extent.

Peri: I only had a few minutes to speak with Robert before his program, but I was curious how your language can shape your relationship to nature. I asked about the Blackfeet language, but Robert flipped the question on its head.

Robert: Really, I think the question more so that we need to look at is why is English so separate from the earth? It's kind of obvious why most indigenous languages would be entwined with the earth, because that's our natural state is to be with the earth. That's who we naturally are, right? It's the English language that is kind of odd.

[music finishes, marking a transition]

[branches snap]

Peri: The hike up to Ilawye isn't long. But there were a lot of fallen trees after the winter.

[footsteps on a trail]

Michael: [out of breath] Yeah I'm worried that people listening to this will not be sufficiently impressed with us. [chuckling] Can you describe what we're doing?

ShiNaasha: [laughing, out of breath] We are dying on the side of the mountain. [whole group laughs] Scrambling over blowdown of dead trees and getting swatted by false huckleberry, and wishing that these berries were ripe. But the tree is not very far from here.

[loose rocks clatter and clank underfoot]

Peri: [in the field] So this is Ilawye?

ShiNaasha: Yes, this is her. It's definitely, definitely gorgeous. All the green in the background and then just like this one big, huge white skeleton against all this black talus, yeah, it's pretty.

Peri: I squinted in the midday sun and I could see Ilawye standing alone, with distant peaks beyond. We walked across the loud clanking slope of rocks and kind of nestled among Ilawye's huge silver roots. It was very quiet, and it felt sacred. This is how I am first introduced to whitebark pine—to a tree that will totally upend how I see the world around me.

ShiNaasha: The base of it is so huge and just the way the branches are so big and it's like, like lazy octopus arms, like they're too big, they can't pick them up. But then you're like, well, you know, is, is that the branch or is that the root system, you know? If it was the root system, then imagine how even more big this tree was.

Peri: [in the field] I didn't even think about that.

Peri: It's sad to meet the species through a dead tree, but it's also kind of fitting. But even in death, Ilawye is a pretty great ambassador. Even though only the bottom 15 feet or so is still standing, the trunk and branches are enormous, bigger than any tree I've ever seen at this elevation, which is almost 7000 feet.

ShiNaasha: But I can't imagine what this looked like back then. This tree had to be huge, like redwood status for Montana, it really had to be. And I can't imagine like how much it stretched out.

Peri: I think a lot of people would probably say they love trees, especially big, tall, ancient ones. But asking people to articulate why they feel this way or trying to do that myself kind of hits a dead end. ShiNaasha was the first person I talked to who was really able to answer that question.

ShiNaasha: Think of all of the energy that they have absorbed from everything that has happened over that time, whether it's bad or good. [slow, pensive piano music begins to play] But then even when you have an opportunity to come to something so old and filled with wisdom from all of that energy absorbed, if you were to take that time to go to it, it's going to share energy with you.

Peri: My science education emphasizes learning about the natural world. So I saw Ilawye as something to study or observe. But ShiNaasha sees Ilawye almost like a friend or a family member, someone to learn from. And a tree can teach you a lot, if you're willing to listen.

ShiNaasha: Perseverance. That's what I see. You go through hardships, but you keep going. Sometimes in life, you have setbacks. Sometimes you get the strength yourself to continue going by adapting or you have a helping hand. You take that helping hand and move forward. You know, what's funny is like this—I love this place, and I’ve always wanted to bring my family here, but I have not yet gotten the opportunity to bring them here. I really wish I could have brought my dad.

[music swells and then finishes, marking a transition]

Tony: Traditionally, that's how, you know, a lot of our stories have always been told, is we watch the animals. We watch how they take care of the land. The land was here, put here, and the animals took care of it for us and they prepped it, and we watched them and how they do it. And so after watching them and learning from them now, it's kind of our duty to continue it. And so all of our stories, all of our values come around keeping everything together as a whole, as a system, so it can function correctly.

Peri: Even for those of us who've grown up without this worldview, one of the reasons I think we all feel that sense of awe around ancient trees is how old they are, and how much they've seen. Trees are rooted in the same spot, sometimes for thousands of years, as the world changes around them.

Tony: And you look at the site it sits, the view it has, it looks over the Mission Valley. You know, it's seen a lot of things. It's seen a lot of change, a lot of shape.

Peri: When Ilawye was young, over a thousand years ago, Tony and Mike's ancestors were living in the valley below as they had since time immemorial, [somber synth music begins to play] and Ilwaye watched as settlers arrived and everything changed. Now, Tony and Mike are working to revive and pass on traditional knowledge to new generations.

Tony: And that's part of our success story we wrote about, too, is we're bringing this to our younger generation now. You know, I'm a little younger than Mike and whitebark pine traditionally hasn't, I haven't learned about it until until recently, and so there is a little gap in there. And it's awesome to see, you know, groups of children out there on field trips, hiking trips and starting to show them the importance, not just for, like you said, ecology for restoration, but introducing that culture back into the young generation.

Mike: And bringing kids up there to meet Ilawye is, you know, pretty special for them. They're not just learning about the importance of the tree and the seeds, they're learning the importance and the significance of our great, great grandparent and how, you know, throughout history this has been part of our lives.

Peri: [in the field] Where did the name Ilawye come from?

Mike: I named that tree.

Tony: Yeah.

Mike: And I got to touch the tree. And I was like, this is a special tree. It's kind of like my medicine tree.

Peri: Most relationships begin when you learn someone's name, and I guess that's true of the natural world, too. For me, learning the names of wildflowers and birds started out as trivia. [pensive piano music playing] But eventually, in addition to just asking, “What are you?” I started to ask, “Who are you and why are you here?” I started to notice which birds live, where, what time of year glacier lilies bloom or raspberries ripen, and when animals migrate in or out of my neighborhood. Species became individuals—not just a hummingbird, but the rufous hummingbird that zips around my flowers every day. Not just a huckleberry plant, but the patch I visit and pick each year. In her book Braiding Sweetgrass, Indigenous author and scientist Robin Wall Kimmerer says that paying attention is a form of reciprocity with the living world, and that learning names of the beings around you is a sign of respect, the first step toward that reciprocal relationship. Which is why meeting Ilawye, the Great Great Grandparent Tree, felt like a fitting introduction to whitebark pine.

[music finishes]

ShiNaasha: You know, trees and plants and medicines are here to help us. That's why we help them.

Peri: In the past, it never occurred to me to frame the relationship with nature or a tree in this reciprocal way where we take care of each other. The National Park Service mission is to preserve and protect this place, but until now, I had thought about that relationship as mostly one-sided—people protecting nature. It didn't occur to me that the natural world could take care of me too. And Tony explained to me that the CSKT Forestry Program incorporates that kind of thinking. It's not just about growing and harvesting timber as a crop. It's about restoring the ecosystem.

Tony: And that's something I've always learned from my father is—is what I do now is not for me, it's not for my kids, it's for my kids’ kids. [wistful, somber music plays] And that's why forestry and our tribe is connected with forestry so much. I think it's because whatever we do and whatever restoration efforts we do, it's looking down the road and the future. And with climate change, that's really why we've looked at our future.

Peri: And Tony mentioned this idea of thinking seven generations down the road.

Tony: It's—we're learning from generations past. We're applying it now for generations future.

[music finishes; we hear again the sounds of rocks clattering underfoot that we heard while visiting Ilawye]

Peri: I set out on this journey to meet a tree, and I discovered a lot more.

ShiNaasha: This tree is the oldest that I know, so there is a lot that I have learned from it already. It has a lot that I still will learn.

Peri: This is not just a story about a species and the efforts to save it. It's a story about how we relate to the world around us, [slow, somber music begins to play] what we stand to gain if we can think of that relationship in a new way, and also about what we could lose.

ShiNaasha: Imagine if we were to lose this tree, this species. It's like losing a whole other soul. You lose all of that knowledge, you lose the culture, you lose a lot more than just a tree.

Peri: And this is a very real possibility. And in addition to their spiritual and cultural significance, they also hold together our high elevation ecosystems.

ShiNaasha: You're going to lose that tradition. You will lose that cultural component of that piece of nature that makes your tribe, your tribe.

[music finishes, marking the end of the episode]

Michael: Next time on Headwaters, we explore the ecosystems tied to whitebark pine, including grizzly bears, birds, and squirrels, but it all starts with a puppet.

[sweet, joyful music playing on a banjo]

Brad: [laughing] Piney is like an artificial Christmas tree that's been truly gussied up.

Michael: So she's about three and a half feet tall, three feet tall, green sequined dress.

Brad: [vamping narrator voice] “She's… a little… mysterious, sassy.” Oh no, her base fell off. [laughs]

Michael: That's next time on Headwaters.

[music finishes; different guitar music plays under the credits]

Peri: Headwaters is a production of Glacier National Park with support from our partner, the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

Peri: Glacier is the traditional lands of several Native American tribes, including the Aamsskáápipikani, Kootenai, Séliš, and Ql̓ispé people. Headwaters was created by Daniel Lombardi. Andrew Smith, Peri Sasnett, and Michael Faist produced, edited and hosted the show. Ben Cosgrove wrote and performed our music, and Claire Emery let us use her woodcut piece titled "Wind Poem" for this season's cover art.

Peri: Special thanks this episode to Bill Hayden, ShiNaasha Pete, Tony Incashola Jr., Mike Durglo Jr., Robert Hall, Sierra Mandelko, Claire Emery, Kaylin Brennan, Debby Smith, everyone with Glacier's native plant program, the Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation, and so many others. If you enjoyed the show, we love it if you'd rate, review, and subscribe and share it with a friend.

[music ends]

Lacy: This is like for the end?

Daniel: This is in it, yeah. You saying that? That's gonna be in it.

Michael: [laughs]

Lacy: The Glacier Conservancy is the official fundraising partner of Glacier National Park. To learn more, visit glacier.org.

Peri: I think that's the best time you've done yet.

Lacy: OK, do I need to get one more time?

Michael: I think we're good.

Peri: Yeah I think this is good.

Journey across the Flathead Indian Reservation to the most important tree you’ve never heard of.

The Glacier Conservancy: https://glacier.org/

Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation: https://whitebarkfound.org/

Pictures of Ilawye, the Great Great Grandparent Tree: https://flic.kr/p/2mtQsSH

Ben Cosgrove Music: https://www.bencosgrove.com/

Claire Emery Art: https://www.emeryart.com/

See more show notes on our website: https://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/photosmultimedia/headwaters-podcast.htm

Episode 2

Whitebark Pine | Chapter Two

Transcript

Lacy: Headwaters is brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

[car driving by]

Peri: If you've ever driven the length of Going-to-the-Sun Road, you've crossed the Baring Creek Bridge—on the east side of the park. [dynamic piano music playing]

You might have been staring up at the mountains and not noticed it, but it is worth checking out. Built in 1931, the bridge is huge. One of the largest on Going-to-the-Sun Road. It's so big that there's a path you can work on that takes you under it next to the creek. And if you look up, you can see all the beautiful red and green local rocks it was built with. The rocks stack on top of one another to form a single long arch that touches down on each side of the creek. And at the apex of the arch is a single stone that's bigger, and more prominent than the rest. And that's called the keystone. If you pulled out the keystone, the rest of the stones would collapse into the creek.

[music ends]

Peri: Well, not really, in this case. The rocks on the Baring Creek Bridge are just a facade for a concrete arch. But keystones have held bridges and arches together for thousands of years. One iconic stone that transforms to unstable stacks of rock into one of the strongest and most important shapes in all of architecture.

[Headwaters Season Two theme begins: somber piano music]

Peri: In the late 1960s, ecology borrowed this concept and started using the term keystone species. The idea is that some species—like whitebark pine—are so important that they hold up the rest of the ecosystem, the way the keystone holds up the arch. If whitebark pine go extinct, then all the other species dependent on them could go extinct as well.

Peri: My name is Peri, and you're listening to Headwaters Season Two, a story of a tree over the course of a summer in Glacier National Park. Of course, this story is also about a lot more than whitebark pine. It's about the purpose of the National Park Service and our relationship with nature.

Michael: I'm Michael.

Andrew: I'm Andrew. And the three of us are Rangers here in Glacier.

Michael: You're listening to Chapter Two of Five, although we'd recommend starting with Chapter One. And if you haven't already, you could listen to season one of this podcast for an introduction to Glacier National Park.

Peri: Last time, I met whitebark pine. I spoke with foresters, rangers, artists and more to see what we can learn from a tree. Today, I'll meet the plants and animals that depend on whitebark pine.

[jaunty piano music begins]

Michael: Could you introduce us to Piney?

Brad: Yes! So yes, I have a puppet here with me, I'll pick her up. Piney is like an artificial Christmas tree that's been truly gussied up. Whose trunk has been painted white because she is a whitebark pine. [Michael laughs]

She has been giving a beautiful sequined evening gown with some pretty profound pine cone... [Michael laughs again] A pine cone bosom situation, which I will say…

Peri: Glacier has an Artist in Residence program: a way for the park to invite and host artists to visit for a month at a time, while working on a project about the park.

Michael: So she's about three and a half feet tall, three feet tall, green sequined dress, looks kind of like a–

Brad: I would say, like a lounge singer, perhaps. She's got one hand that's perpetually on her hip and one hand that she gesticulates with.

Peri: This year, one of our artists was Brad, who came to our studio with a handmade whitebark pine puppet named Piney, whose plastic needled branches have been squashed into a quasi-feminine form.

Brad: My name is Brad Einstein and I am a federally recognized forest comedian. [Michael laughs again]

Peri: Brad and his friend Kyle Neimer started Tree Huggers Comedy, where they make nature documentaries that they describe as a little John Muir and a little John Oliver. One of the videos they're working on explores a relationship, specifically one between whitebark pine and a bird called a Clark's Nutcracker.

Brad: So the whole play with this noir was that the detective was a Clark's Nutcracker, who had a very good memory for triangulating and finding things.

Peri: Clark's Nutcrackers are a beautiful gray bird that's related to crows and ravens. And they have black wings and a huge black beak that they use to crack into white bark pine cones. They extract their seeds and then cash them for the winter. Here's a clip from Brad and Kyle's video.

Video Clip of Bird Puppet: [a film reel spinning, a countdown beeps, and a playful bass line begins] The name's Clark. Clark S. Nutcracker. From nine to five, I'm a private detective. The rest of the time [caw caw sound], I’m a bird. Why am I a detective? I have a nose for it. More specifically, a beak. There's not a case this thing can't crack. More specifically, seed cases. More and more specifically [a whip cracks], pine cones. And while I’ve cracked lots of cases from lots of pines, there's only one case [romantic music begins], that cracked my heart into two.

Peri: In this bit, Clark S. Nutcracker is a detective, sporting a three-piece suit and a felt fedora. The joke is that, like a detective, these smart birds use their excellent memory to remember all the places where they've cashed whitebark pine seeds.

Brad: He was a private eye, and we kind of had a “Beautiful Mind” sort of conspiracy theory wall of him doing this triangulation. And of course, in that relationship, the whitebark pine was the stemme fatale.

Video Clip of Bird Puppet: [somber music plays] Of all the mountainside she could grow on for centuries. She had to pick this one. She had a voice like the wind [wind blows]

Video Clip, Woman’s Voice: Hey there, Clark

Video Clip of Bird Puppet: Which on second thought it probably was. Holy Crow...Three hundred years old, she had roots for days. In short, a real stemme fatale...

Brad: And hence, [Michael laughing] hence she's a little mysterious. Sassy. I don't know. A tragic female protagonist. Oh no. Her base fell off.

[pensive piano music begins]

Michael: What would I after watching this bit, you know, what, what would you hope I would get from it?

Brad: Hmm. One, I... I think the whole goal always is to kind of remove the otherness of the natural world, and use irreverence in a variety of different ways to promote reverence. Whether that is a feeling of awe towards the grandeur of the natural world, or a feeling of intimacy that like, these creatures, these relationships, this inner-species union is not so different from the relationships that we as humans have.

Peri: When I think about relationships, I see my loved ones—my family, my friends. I don't usually think of the natural world. The way plants and animals interact, the food chain we're all taught in high school, it can feel very transactional, kind of unfeeling. But is that really true? How do the bonds between plants and animals compare to our human ones? How can we relate to them? Or, as Brad said, share a feeling of intimacy with the world around us.

Peri: Biologists call an intimacy between species “symbiosis.” The literal translation from its Greek roots means “living together,” and that describes most life on Earth. Depending on one another. As humans, we depend on plants and animals to survive and to add richness and beauty to our lives. Symbiotic relationships take many forms. Sometimes, like a tick on a deer, only one member of the pair benefits. But when both benefit, like with whitebark and nutcrackers, it's called mutualism. They each gain something and they help one another.

[soft music begins]

Lisa: [wind rustling] I’m Lisa Bate, I'm a wildlife biologist here at Glacier National Park. I mean, I've talked with some other biologists when we mentioned Clark's Nutcracker, they’re like, Oh, what's that? And it's like, oh, ok. [birds chirping] You know, not everyone is aware of birds, and the important role—ecological role—they play in the ecosystem, so…

Peri: You might remember Lisa from season one of Headwaters, in our story about harlequin ducks. Well, she studies a lot of other species, including Clarks Nutcrackers. You've already heard a bit about their unique relationship with whitebark pine, and how they use their specially adapted bills to open cones, extract the seeds, and cache them in the ground.

Lisa: But you mentioned that bill, and it is stout. It's powerful, and it has to be for a reason—because most pine cones open on their own to disperse its seeds. Not whitebark. The only way it opens is with that Clarks just clobbering it. And it's just amazing to watch. And so when it opens it, that allows it to become available to all these other species, too.

Peri: One of the fun things about talking to Lisa is her enthusiasm for the animals she works with.

Lisa: And the amazing–OK–this is like the most amazing thing [others laughing] about Clark's nutcrackers to me, when I first started working on this proposal. They are the only bird in North America with a sublingual pouch. That means a pouch under the tongue. It’s, and they have co-evolved with whitebark pine to collect those seeds, they put them in that little pouch, and if you're lucky enough to see that start bulging, you can actually see the definition of the individual pine seeds.

Peri: I have to say, I've talked with a lot of people who love these birds, and no one has been so excited about their sublingual pouch.

Andrew: Yeah, no kidding. So it's basically the bird version of a squirrel stuffing food in its cheeks?

Peri: Pretty much.

Lisa: But then they use that little pouch to go fly off, and then they bury those seeds like two or three at a time. And they are, their memories are phenomenal. And they can remember, like 98 percent of the places where they...

Peri: Each individual can cache anywhere between thirty and a hundred thousand seeds in a year. And in a win-win scenario, the birds like to cache the seeds and open areas, like recent burns, where the terrain is easy to memorize and there's no shade to block the growth of young trees.

Lisa: They are so smart that they can remember where 98 percent of those seeds have been cached. But it's the two percent—the one to two percent that they can't remember or they don't get to—that's what germinates into the next generation of whitebark pine. So it is, it's just this fabulous mutualistic relationship that's evolved over the millennium.

Peri: So whitebark pine depends on Clark's nutcrackers to reproduce. They need the birds to distribute and plant their seeds for them. But it might go the other way too. Nutcrackers can survive without whitebark pine seeds, they can eat other foods and get by, but the fewer whitebarks there are, the fewer nutcrackers there tend to be. And scientists have observed that in years with very small cone crops, nutcrackers are less likely to reproduce.

Peri: You've probably heard of the birds and the bees, but this is the birds and the trees. It's a beautiful thing, these birds and trees in this ancient, balanced and mutualistic relationship. In a way, I almost feel jealous. I'd love to have that close connection with the world around me. And I don't think I'm alone in that... Humans need community, and we all want to feel like we belong. [pensive music begins] But being part of a community means that you need to give back as much as you receive, whether with friends and family or with your natural environment. There has to be taking and giving, or else you slip from mutualism to something else... Instead of the bird and the tree, it's the tick on the deer. Like any relationship, it's a balancing act. When there aren't enough whitebark pine cones, nutcrackers can end up eating every last seed, turning them from seed dispersers into seed predators.

[music ends]

Andrew: Clark's nutcrackers and Whitebark Pine have this mutualistic relationship where the bird feeds on the seeds and the tree depends on the bird to plant the seeds and to sow the next generation. But lots of other species depend on whitebark too.

[upbeat banjo music begins]

Kate: Whitebark pine seeds are an excellent food source for a variety of birds and mammals; woodpeckers, jays, ravens, chickadees, nuthatches, finches feeding on whitebark pine, as well as grouse, ptarmigan, chipmunks, ground squirrels and of course, the red tree squirrel. Mice, I’ve, I've found whitebark pine seeds in coyote scats, and I've even seen evidence of deer feeding on them.

Andrew: That's Kate Kendall. She worked for decades studying grizzly bears here in Glacier, as well as all around northwest Montana, and in Yellowstone National Park. In addition to all those birds and mammals that will eat whitebark seeds, bears—and especially grizzly bears—love to eat them too.

Kate: It's a highly preferred food. I even know of a study in northern or central British Columbia, where there are spawning salmon. Bears choose to go up and feed on whitebark pine seeds when they're available, even when there are spawning salmon in the creeks below.

Andrew: How did you realize that grizzlies were using whitebark pine seeds?

Kate: Well, first of all in Yellowstone we had a lot of radio-collared bears, and we could see their movements moving to whitebark pine stands in the high elevation, uh, late summer and fall. We also paid a lot of attention to bear scats, or their feces. And it was very obvious when bears had been feeding on whitebark pine seeds, there's almost nothing else in their scats, and so it's very easy to tell what they've been eating.

Andrew: But while Kate knew that bears were eating whitebark pine seeds, there were still a few mysteries. For starters, how were they getting the seeds out of whitebark pine cones? No one had seen it happen in person, so Kate took a bunch of whitebark pine cones to the Boise Zoo to find out.

Kate: So, I took a bunch of cones and then a individual pile of seeds that I had laboriously extracted from the cones [upbeat music begins] to the Boise Zoo, where there were two 10 year old grizzly bears that had been orphaned when their mother died in Yellowstone, when they were just cubs. They had gone through one year of feeding with her, and then the next spring, the mother died and they were put into a zoo, so they had been in captivity for nine years.

Andrew: Kate hope these two orphaned cubs would show her how bears accessed whitebark pine seeds.

Kate: And they still had their regular food which were apples, carrots out there. And as soon as they release those bears into the enclosure, they just absolutely made a beeline to the pile of cones, sat down and started crunching them up. They break them up by biting them, and then they'd let that fall to the ground and they rake out the debris and just very dexterously lick up just the individual seeds. And if they got a cone scale in their mouth, they, it would come get ejected out of the side of their mouth. It was just unbelievable that that...

Andrew: This behavior couldn't have been learned in captivity. The bears remembered the trick that their mom had taught them that one fall, nine years earlier. However, they didn't touch the seeds that Kate had carefully extracted from the cones.

Kate: And I don't understand this, but they never touched that pile of seeds, and sadly, that all got washed down the drain at the end of the day.

Andrew: All your hard work?

Kate: All my hard work, and it was really hard to extract the seeds. Whitebark pine cones are extremely resinous, and I would get my fingers completely glued together and have to pry them apart with solvent in order to, like continue.

Andrew: And the bears don't get their lips glued shut by the pine resin?

Kate: They don't! But, I have pictures of bears, and they had been feeding on whitebark pine cones before the big die off and they had no hair on their bellies because so much resin had collected. And then when they tried to get the resin off, they like pulled out all their hair. They had clubbed feet. Their front paws were just completely matted with resin.

Andrew: It's that good? They wouldn't stop?!

Kate: They wouldn't stop. Nope.

Andrew: But even knowing how bears opened the cones, it's hard to imagine grizzlies getting to the cones in the first place. Whitebark pine cones are kind of unique because they sit way up high in the tree at the very ends of the branches. Black bears are excellent climbers, but grizzly bears are not.

Michael: As it turns out, grizzly bears rely on another animal to do their dirty work and retrieve all the cones for them.

[red squirrel chattering]

Michael: You recognize that sound, right?

Peri: Of course! They are all over my yard right now. Red tree squirrels.

Michael: [footsteps on leaves, walking outside] Oh, my gosh, yeah.

Peri: I know! There's these piles of cones.

Peri: Yeah, so they chatter outside very dramatically all the time, and they've made these piles of cones all over the yard.

Michael: Oh my gosh, yeah, look at them!

Peri: They're just stacked up under these bushes, like

[red tree squirrel chattering]

Michael: Hundreds of them!

Peri: Very neatly, all in little rows, all stacked up. And there's more over here, too. I've never noticed squirrels doing this before.

Michael: But you know why they're doing it, right?

Peri: I mean, I assume they're to eat over the winter?

Michael: Yeah, these are these are piles that have a specific name. They're called middens.

Peri: Like for your hands?

Michael: No, it's middens with a D. M, I, D, D, E, N, S.

Peri: Oh, OK. I have heard that before.

Michael: Yeah. And middens are these stashes of food, preparing for the winter that they build on [squirrel chattering continues] all summer, especially here in the fall when the trees cones are mature. And middens are more than just piles. They look like piles, but they're actually kind of like a refrigerator that preserves these cones all through the summer and into the winter.

Peri: Really?

Michael: Yeah! If they just left all these cones out willy nilly, a lot of them would spoil, would rot because the cones would start opening. Some of them might even start to germinate and turn into a new tree,

Peri: Oh.

Michael: Which wastes a lot of the nutrients that they could easily get out of the seed. And so it's easy to see why all of this hard work that this squirrel puts in, it's something they get very protective over. That chattering you're hearing is them saying–

Peri: Squirrel yelling!

Michael: Yeah, back off!

Peri: Get away from my pine cones!

Michael: I’ve worked hard on that! Don't take my food, which we get to hear all over the park. It's probably not quite as effective when they do it at a grizzly bear because this is what grizzly bears raid. They raid these middens. That's how they get whitebark, pine cones. In fact, early in the spring, when other foods like huckleberries aren't ready to eat yet, bears can still dig up and access these cones. And Kate had seen this sort of thing in real life.

Kate: This whitebark pine stand is cratered by bears that have come out of the den and been able to smell these caches of cones six feet under snow. Dig them out. Feed on them, there's cone debris all over the place, bear scats full of seeds. And I'm telling you, it was it was like bombs had gone off all over the whitebark pine stand.

Peri: Why do you know so much about squirrels?

Michael: OK, well, when I worked as an interpretive ranger, the guided hikes, that sort of thing, we were asked to come up with a 30 minute talk about animals, and a lot of my colleagues gave talks on mountain lions and mountain goats, grizzly bears,

Peri: Charismatic megafauna.

Michael: Charismatic, yeah I gave my mine on squirrels.

[both laughing]

Peri: [joking] Cool!

Michael Yeah, I mean, I REALLY think they are an under-appreciated critter in this park. Just because they're common, it's easy to overlook them. But one adult squirrel could have easily cashed all of these cones in your yard.

[whimsical music begins]

Peri: Honestly, I definitely have a newfound appreciation for squirrels this summer, watching them run around like tiny lunatics [Michael laughs] and build up these huge piles all over the yard. It's been really fun to watch.

Michael: To quantify it, it's like ten, to over a hundred and fifty cones stashed a day

Peri: Wow.

Michael: for the average single adult squirrel, which,

Peri: how industrious

Michael: Very industrious, over 15,000 in a summer.

Peri: Wow.

Michael: So by stashing that many and remembering where most of them are, they are able to stay active all through the harsh Montana winter. Honestly, like looking at these piles in your yard, it's a wonder between squirrels and nutcrackers and bears that whitebark pine have any cones left, any seeds left at the end of the summer.

Peri: So whitebark pine trees know that birds and mammals will eat their seeds, but they have this trick called masting that they use to outsmart them, and masting is when a tree that produces fruit or seeds, nuts, chooses to produce them at kind of unpredictable intervals. And so if a squirrel or a nutcracker knew they could come to whitebark pine every year and just eat as many seeds as it wanted, there would be way more squirrels and nutcrackers that could eat so many seeds that the tree would be totally picked over with no seeds left for it to reproduce.

Michael: So the trees don't produce cones every year they like, take a vacation.

Peri: Yeah, kind of. They take some years off, which prevents these seed predators from having a reliable food source, which then controls their populations. So then, after one or two or three years, the tree will have a “mast” year and produce a ton of cones, way more than squirrels or nutcrackers could ever hope to eat.

Michael: Wow.

Andrew: Evolution has given these trees a great strategy for dealing with seed predators. It's almost like they've outsmarted these animals.

Peri: Yeah, it's almost like they're saying, Ooh, nice try.

[warm guitar music begins]

Peri: So, it's clear that this relationship between a tree, a bird, a bear, and a squirrel—it’s really complex, and it's something that people have studied year after year to understand better.

Kate: I was hiking up one morning and there was this black bear that was digging at the base of a tree, and it just ran off immediately. And so I think, Oh, I need to see whether it's digging up cones or maybe it's finding little seed caches! And so I am down with my butt in the air, digging up, trying to carefully see are there seed caches here? Well, I'm behind the trunk of the tree, and the bear didn't see me, and it comes back and pokes its head, around and we both kind of go WHOOEAAHH! [Kate, Andrew and Michael laughing]

Peri: Hearing Kate's stories of her time spent in whitebark stands, and learning about all these interconnections, made me want to go try and see them for myself. I’ve had the chance to visit the trees themselves, but I never paid much attention to what was going on around them. But now that I know the stories of the nutcrackers and bears and squirrels, I want to watch those relationships in action.

[car noise]

Greg: [answering over the phone] Glacier Dispatch, this is Greg.

Vlad: Hey, Greg, this is Vlad Kovalenko, uh, would you please initiate my backcountry tracking?

Greg: There you are... And out by 7:00 tonight, right?

Vlad: Yep.

Greg: Alright, we’ll talk to you then.

Vlad: Awesome, thanks Greg.

Greg: You got it.

Peri: We're driving to the East Side with Vlad Kovalenko. He's a grad student at the University of Montana, studying Clark's Nutcrackers and their relationship with whitebark pine. And like this show, Vlad's work is supported by the Glacier National Park Conservancy. This summer, he's working with Lisa Bate.

Vlad: I wouldn't say the hike up is pleasant. It's pretty bushwacky, and it's hard to find the path. But once you're up there, it's quite nice.

Peri: And if we don't find it?

Vlad: Then all hope is lost.

Peri: [laughing] Great! Great.

Peri: The goal? Hike up a ridge, and try and find some birds.

Michael: And not by just blindly stumbling around with binoculars.

Peri: No, higher tech than that. So eight birds—eight Clark’s nutcrackers—were equipped with little transmitters that emit a signal Vlad can pick up and follow.

Michael: And that's one thing I had a really hard time wrapping my head around. Like nutcrackers are related to crows and ravens, famously smart birds, like how on earth did they catch them?

Peri: Well, it took a lot of planning and a lot of patience to try and outsmart them. [dramatic piano music begins] They used a bait called suet to lure the birds into a trap called a “bow-net.”

Lisa: [wind rustling] But we had suet strung between this tree and all the way over to that tree. And there was probably what, five feet of snow here? So it hung there and hung there, and nothing happened, nothing happened. We were hiding way back in the trees. But you know, he makes it sound really easy. [Vlad laughing] It was anything but easy. No, we spent like hours, we spent days sitting there in a chair and we had to learn to just hold perfectly still, didn't we?

Vlad: Yeah.

Peri: This is the middle of winter. Snowy, cold, windy. And this went on for months with no luck. Staff and volunteers alike were checking for signs of birds on the bait every week or two, driving several hours and skiing several miles until finally, one day when Lisa was running errands in town, she got a text from a volunteer.

Lisa: Bird on suet. Bird on ground. [birds chirping] And like the first thing I did, I just got goosebumps. I called Vlad, I'm like, What are you doing tomorrow? He said, I don't know, what am I doing? I'm like, we're trapped in a bird!

Peri: The obvious question is, what do they do with the birds once they've trapped them? The first step was just to hold on to them, which wasn't always easy.

Lisa: Every single bird that we handled had a different personality. There was the one that we came away with bruises all over our knuckles. [Lisa laughs] And then there was another one that was just cool as a cucumber, and I don't think we got pecked...

Peri: Vlad and Lisa explained that they tied a tiny backpack with a transmitter onto the birds, which they secured around their wings and across their chest with a Teflon ribbon. It only weighs five grams, which is just four percent of the bird's body weight. And apparently the trick to distracting the birds enough to get this done, was giving them a stick to hold on to with their toes.

Lisa: [wind continues] And that was so invaluable because otherwise, you know, we'd be processing on a towel on a table and they were just picking it up, grabbing anything. Anything and everything. But you gave them a stick, it gave them some obvious sense of security and it would calm them down.

Peri: And once the backpack with the transmitter was tied on, they let the bird go, and sent it off with their gratitude.

Lisa: But, you know, we just kept saying thanks, you're doing this to learn more about your species and you know, you're paying one forward, hopefully for the species, so.

Peri: The cool thing about the transmitters is that they'll let Vlad see where these birds are throughout the year. Even if they leave the park, or Montana altogether.

Lisa: Other biologists have learned when the probability of survival reaches zero in a certain habitat, [somber piano music begins] the bird will leave that area to go somewhere where the probability of survival is much greater. And we were wondering if that's happening here in the park. We don't even know of Clark's breed here anymore in the park. But without Clark's to bury seeds to initiate that new generation of whitebark pine, there will be no natural regeneration of whitebark pines. That's the only way it regenerates is with the Clark's nutcrackers. So without Clark's, no more whitebark and without whitebark, will we lose all of our Clark's? We don't know.

Peri: That's the downside of this mutualism. Sure, when things are going well, they support one another and they both thrive. But when the scales start to tip out of balance, they all pay the price. [somber music ends]

[hiking through bushes]

Vlad: We're about to enter the whitebark zone.

Peri: It was a pretty steep climb up the ridge, but luckily there were plenty of thimble berries to distract me.

Peri: [in the field] Picked too many berries, fell behind. Here I am!

Peri: But as we crested the ridge, the forest gave way to a wide open meadow. The high peaks of the continental divide rose up above us to the west, and to the east I could see all the way out onto the rolling plains of the Blackfeet Reservation. As we hiked, [footsteps on dirt] we were very aware of Kate's stories about running into bears in whitebark pine territory. So we were sure to make lots of noise all day.

Peri: [in the field] HEEEEYYOOOO.

Peri: And we never saw a bear in person. But we did get to see, in sort of a roundabout way, that they are eating whitebark pine seeds.

[upbeat music begins]

Vlad: Nice.

Michael: Oh, that's fresh.

Vlad: [wind rustling] Yeah, look at those berries, didn't even chew.

Peri: We used a stick to poke through the bear poop.

Peri: [in the field] I mostly see berries, although what’s that?

Michael: I need a better stick.

Vlad: Oooh that could be it!

Peri: Yeah.

Andrew: That's cool, but also kind of gross. The way Kate put it, it would be pretty easy to spot evidence of whitebark pine seeds in bear scat.

Kate: It's a combination of these woody coats and then the pine seeds like pinion pine nuts crunched up, coarsely, and it's just packed in the bear scat. And it's actually a good source of food for birds and small rodents. They'll quickly consume a bear scat that's full of whitebark pine debris because there's so much undigested pine seeds in there. [upbeat music ends]

Peri: It was a pretty cool moment, and I got to see proof of this relationship without having to get too close to a bear.

[hiking sounds continue]

Robotic Voice: One. Zero. Three.

Vlad: WOO! That's good news.

Peri: [in the field] So it's transmitting?

Vlad: Yeah, someone's transmitting.

Peri: The robotic voice means that Vlad's receiver is picking up one of the backpack wearing birds that's part of his study. Basically, the higher the number, the closer the bird is.

Robotic Voice One five six.

Peri: The receiver pointed us downhill, so we kept walking that direction.

[hiking noises continue]

Peri: [in the field] And it’ll just keep transmitting as we go?

Vlad: Yeah, it should keep increasing.

Robotic Voice Two. Zero. Eight. [whimsical music begins]

[Clark’s nutcracker cawing]

Peri: [in the field] What’s that?

Vlad: There's our friend the Clark's Nutcracker! [Clark’s continue cawing]

Michael: Oh, one right on the top of that tree!

Peri: [in the field] Oh yeah.

[Clark’s continue cawing, flies buzz by]

Peri: [in the field] Oh, there's a ton of them!

Peri: We found a whole flock of nutcrackers, but we couldn't be sure that any of them were part of lab study without seeing an antenna.

Vlad: Alright, give me an antenna, please...

Peri: [in the field] It sounds so robotic.

Vlad: Yeah, that's an interesting variation of their call on that one.

[music ends]

Peri: Their calls are so harsh, distinctive and loud that it was really easy to hear them, but we still needed binoculars if we wanted to see which one was wearing a backpack with a transmitter.

Michael: It's at the top of this really thin tree. [wind bowing, clark’s calling]

Vlad: That's got an antenna!

Michael: It does?

Vlad: Yeah.

Peri: [in the field] A big fat one.

Michael: What is it doing?

Peri: [in the field] Oh! I see a bunch of opened cones. It's perched right on top of that whitebark. I haven't yet seen it drill open the cones to get the seeds, but there's a bunch of already open cones at the top of that whitebark.

Peri: Seeing a bunch of nutcrackers frolicking around at the tops of whitebark pine trees started to make these relationships more tangible, more real to me. It's not just a set of connections I might describe scientifically, but these trees, and these birds, right in front of me. Having a great time, it seemed like.

[Clark’s cawing back and forth]

Vlad: Gosh, they're fun to watch.

[Upbeat banjo music begins]

Peri: Whitebark's importance to the landscape and the plants and animals that live there is pretty impossible to overstate. But I was surprised to hear that fewer whitebark pine cones in the mountains, might mean a bear in my yard.

Kate: When, when the cone crop is low, or it fails, those bears tend to migrate down to lower elevations in search of alternate foods. That's where there's more human activity.

Peri: Bears looking for food in human spaces usually ends badly for the bears, and the fewer whitebark pine seeds there are in the fall, the more often this happens. But the web of relationships stretches even further than that. Big whitebark pine trees at high elevation, with their poofy canopies, shade the snowpack and slow down spring runoff, so their presence has an impact way downstream.

Kate: So it just has this huge effect, not just as a wildlife food and shelter, but it affects—even human drinking water is higher quality, and more of it because of whitebark pine's presence.

Lisa: [wind rustling] I was camping at Lower Quartz one year, there was a loon nesting. And then the next day I went up to the Upper Quartz. It got really, really hot. And when I came back down, that nest was a foot underwater, in 24 hours. I mean, we have done research showing that Harlequin duck reproduction success is intrinsically linked to stream flows. And in years where we have real chaotic stream flows, you know, high ones, more than one rise and fall, and we lose a lot of nests, so.

Lisa: [wind continues] Black Swifts, as far as we know, they only nest on persistent waterfalls—those waterfalls that are fed by glaciers or snowpacks. So as we lose snowpacks, are we're going to lose black swift colonies? We don't know. It's like a spider web, you pull on one little strand and it's going to affect the whole web in some form or another.

[pensive piano music begins]

Peri: As ShiNaasha said when we visited the Great Great Grandparent Tree; if we lose whitebark pine, we will lose a lot more than just a tree.

Peri: There's this game you can play with kids to teach them about ecosystems and these interconnections. You have the students stand in a circle, and each one gets a card with a different species. Whitebark pine, a grizzly bear, huckleberries, maybe a squirrel. And then you pass a ball of yarn back and forth across the circle to connect each one that provides food or shelter for another. You end up with this crisscrossing web of yarn. And then you have the students lean back just a little bit. And they're kind of skeptical, but the web of yarn supports them. But then you take out your scissors and you snip the strands holding just one species to the others. And the web comes apart and everyone falls down.

[warm piano music beginning]

Peri: It's a little silly. Everyone ends up on the ground giggling, and there's yarn everywhere. But I like it. I think what I like about it is that it puts people into the web. It reminds me that the word symbiosis means living together. What kind of relationship do I have with the world? It really changes when you realize you're living together and sharing a home. In this crisscrossed web of yarn. I've often seen humans as the scissors cutting things apart. But maybe it doesn't have to be that way.

[music ends]

Andrew: [hopeful music begins] Next week on Headwaters, we learn what whitebark pine is up against and the lengths that previous generations went to try to protect it.

Doug: The musclebound jocks from the University, building up for the football season, were now carrying five gallon cans of poison on their backs and squirting that poison with a little hatchet hose right into the white pine trees trying to save them.

Andrew: That's next time on Headwaters. [music ends]

[upbeat banjo music begins]

Peri: Headwaters is a production of Glacier National Park with support from our partner, the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

Peri: Glacier is the traditional lands of several Native American tribes, including the Aamsskààpipikani, Kootenai, Séliš, and Qìispé People.

Peri: Headwaters was created by Daniel Lombardi. Andrew Smith, Peri, Sasnett, and Michael Faist, produced, edited and hosted the show. Ben Cosgrove wrote and performed our music, and Claire Emery let us use her woodcut piece, titled Wind Poem, for this season's cover art.

Peri: Special thanks this episode to Bill Hayden, Brad Einstein, Kyle Neimer, Piney the whitebark pine puppet, Lisa Bate, Kate Kendall, Vlad Kovalenko, Taza Schaming. Everyone with Glacier's Native Plant Program. The Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation, and so many others.

Peri: If you're enjoying the show, send it to someone else who loves squirrels.

Lacy: This is like for the end?

Daniel: This is it. Yeah. You saying that? That's going to be in it

[laughter]

Lacy: The Glacier Conservancy is the official fundraising partner of Glacier National Park. To learn more, visit glacier.org

Peri: I think that's the best time you've done yet.

Lacy: Okay, do I need to get one more time?

Michael: I think we're good.

Peri: Yeah, I think this is good.

An entire ecosystem held together by one tree.

The Glacier Conservancy: https://glacier.org/ Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation: https://whitebarkfound.org/ Tree Huggers Comedy: https://www.treehuggerscomedy.com/ Picture of Clark’s Nutcracker: https://flic.kr/p/2mqRdzH Ben Cosgrove Music: https://www.bencosgrove.com/

See more show notes on our website: https://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/photosmultimedia/headwaters-podcast.htm

Episode 3

Whitebark Pine | Chapter Three

Transcript

Lacy: Headwaters is brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

[pensive guitar music playing]

Emma: They kind of look a little bit like nicotine patches for trees [giggling]. Like sugar packets, I guess might be a nicer thing to say.

Peri: [amused] Wait, what is going on here?

Michael: Well, recently, Andrew and I tagged along on a hike to Scenic Point with the veg crew, the park's plant people. And shortly after reaching the top, I was handed a Bosstitch heavy duty stapler and a small white packet.

Peri: The nicotine patch, a.k.a. sugar packet.

Michael: Yes, which, turns out, it's actually a packet of a synthetic pheromone called verbenone, which is a defense against one of the west's most infamous forest pests: mountain pine beetles.

Peri: Ohhhh.

Michael: We don't want them killing our whitebark pine trees, so we were sent out there to staple verbenone packets, these synthetic pheromones right onto the trees themselves. Here's re-veg crewmember Annie Gustavson walking me through it.

[quiet, joyful music begins]

Annie: OK, you're going to take the packet of verbenone and you're just going to put two staples up top and then one down below.

Michael: OK. How hard do you have to swing this thing to get it to.

Annie: Five miles an hour.

Andrew: [Laughs]

Michael: [laughing] That's impossible to judge, by hand? Oh, it even says "staple here.".

Andrew: Here we go.

Michael: Don't hype it up. [Staple sound]

Andrew: Nice. [Staple]

Andrew: [deadpan] Ok, now here's the tough one, bottom staple. [Staple]

Michael: Is that good enough?

Annie: Yeah

Andrew: So what grade would you give him? [everyone laughing]

Annie: You got a B-plus.

Michael: Easier said than done. [Stapling sounds].

Andrew: Oh no!

Michael: That was a misfire, [everyone laughing] there was no staple!

Annie: That one was a D.

Peri: So how do these packets keep the beetles away?

Michael: Well, I'll let Rebecca Lawrence explain. She runs the re-veg program around here and is an excellent verbenone stapler, I might add.

Rebecca: Well, it tells the beetles that other beetles have occupied that tree—no, no vacancies—so that they'll go somewhere else to another tree.

Peri: Very clever. So they're using the beetles' own language against them.

Michael: Exactly. And the goal is to place these no vacancy signs at the outer edges of important high-elevation forests, a sort of “great wall of sugar packets” that keeps the beetles out.

Peri: [laughing] Okay, I like it. And did it work?

Michael: It seemed like it. I mean, we never saw any beetles when we were up there. But we did see evidence of a different threat. Here's Rebecca again.

Rebecca: This is active rust where the cankers are opening up and releasing the spores. And it's a bright orange that looks like your Kraft mac and cheese powder.

Michael: Throughout the Rocky Mountains, whitebark pine trees are dying, and here in Glacier, beetles are far from the largest problem.

Rebecca: Basically, the bark starts to just erupt open and then the spores pop out.

Michael: These trees are being protected from beetles because up until now, at least, they've been doing great at surviving an entirely different disease: white pine blister rust, which has already killed over half of the whitebark pine trees in the park. These big, mature cone-bearing trees have been showing resistance to the disease for decades, and the crew has been visiting and “verbenone-ing” them since 2007. [Headwaters Season 2 theme begins to play: somber, dramatic piano music] But today, the crew noticed blister rust on several, turning what should have been an annual wellness check into a sort of inevitable goodbye.

Rebecca: It's—it's sad to see, you know… I don't like to see them dying off, but it's not surprising. Even if just a fraction of them survive, hopefully we can maintain a little foothold up here.

[theme music finishes]

Peri: My name is Peri, and this is season two of Headwaters. We're calling this season Whitebark Pine. But this story is also about so much more than a tree. It's about the purpose of national parks and our relationship with the places we love.

Andrew: I'm Andrew.

Michael: I'm Michael.

Andrew: Hopefully, you've already listened to chapters one and two. But if you haven't, those are a great place to start.

Michael: This is chapter three of a five-part season.

Peri: So far, we've introduced you to whitebark pine, learned about its cultural significance, and heard about the intricate web of life that's connected to this tree. Now we meet the things trying to kill it. So, Michael.

Michael: Mmhmm?

Peri: Hearing about your field day with Rebecca makes me think of this quote by Aldo Leopold, the famous conservationist. He said "one of the penalties of an ecological education is that one lives alone in a world of wounds." [sparse, sad music begins to play] I'm realizing that a lot of this whitebark pine story is invisible, something that a layperson wouldn't even notice, but that's a catastrophe to an ecologist and the world's they study.

Michael: Definitely. I mean, I would have never noticed the blister rust on those trees if Rebecca hadn't pointed it out.

Peri: And I'm no ecologist. But as I learn more about whitebark pine, I think I'm starting to get a glimpse of what it feels like to see these hidden tragedies unfolding. In chapter one, I asked hikers on the Piegan Pass trail if they knew what whitebark pine were, and most of them didn't, even though we were standing right next to a ghost forest of dead whitebark. I felt like I was seeing a world they weren't.

[music finishes]

Peri: Professor Diana Six is an ecologist at the University of Montana who studies the threats facing whitebark pine. And today, I'm going to hike back up the Piegan Pass trail with her. We're going to find a big, healthy whitebark pine and core it, to look at the rings, see what it's been through, and ask why it survived.

[pensive music marks a transition to the field]

Diana: So, yeah, my name is Diana Six, and I'm a professor of forest entomology and pathology. I really did start my love of nature in insects as a little kid. I was camping when I was in diapers. I've been out in the forest, in the desert, you know, all my life.

Peri: [in the field] So I'm just envisioning five year old Diana. [expansive synth music beings] Did you bring all these bugs into the house? What did your parents think about it?

Diana: Oh yeah, everything came in the house. I collected, the most famous thing that put some controls on me was I brought home all these little wigglers and put them in my aquarium. And of course, they were mosquitoes. And when they hatched, I was in big trouble, and after that I wasn't allowed to bring live stuff in the house anymore. You know, I begged for a microscope for years and I always got these stupid dolls. I am old enough that in those days, women were not encouraged in science. We weren't even allowed to be in the science club, so I never, ever considered that it could have been a career that I could have gone on to do science or bugs, for sure.

Peri: You might think of a forest entomologist and pathologist as a bit of a nerd, but Diana is very cool. She has all this amazing, insect-themed silver jewelry and listens to heavy symphonic metal, works all over the world, and is very far from the stereotype I imagined. As we hiked up the trail, I asked her what whitebark pine is up against.

[pensive synth music begins]

Diana: So the three main threats really to whitebark are climate change, blister rust, and mountain pine beetle. And the fact that we have those three, and they're all big, makes this a particularly wicked problem. And wicked problems are those kinds that are not only difficult to solve, but they have multiple facets. And so one aspect could be really difficult to fix. But if you come up with a solution for that, you're still going to lose what you're focused on, because you still have these other threats that have to be dealt with.

Peri: And the other thing that makes this a wicked problem is that these threats interact. For example, climate change is enabling beetles to attack whitebark pin.

Diana: Mountain pine beetles are native, which surprises some people because they've killed so many trees. They act like some invasive, but they're native

Peri: In a way, mountain pine beetles are new to whitebark. Beetle larvae are killed by really cold temperatures, which used to be common in the high elevation areas where these trees live.

Diana: But with climate change, it's allowed things to warm up, the beetles could move up the mountain now, and now they're—it's warm enough on the tops of the mountains all of the time that the beetles can persist there, pretty much as residents now. And this is a big problem because whitebark, having been protected for so many years, has never really had to evolve strong defenses against this insect. And so when this insect shows up, it doesn't have a really good way of fighting back. So if you go to lower elevation trees, they've got all this resin they produce. They drown the beetles, they produce all these toxic chemicals. Whitebark doesn't do that. It's a sitting duck. And the beetles just bore in, they don't get drowned. Doesn't take very many beetles to kill the trees, and it's just a disaster—because, well, so many of the trees are so susceptible, and we've seen millions of acres now killed by the beetles just in in the last 10 years.

Peri: [in the field, talking while walking—sounds of footsteps, out of breath] I feel like you could definitely see pine beetles as the villain in this story, or the bad guy. Do you see it that way or no?

Diana: [while walking, out of breath] Ultimately, they're just doing what they do, right? They're native. They have, in the past, always been actually good guys because they regenerate forests, they're a natural disturbance agent, just like fire. And so the forests that have evolved with them really need them periodically to kind of stay vigorous and healthy. Now that we're seeing these really big outbreaks, this is outside their norm. And the root cause of that is not them. It's us. And with a changing climate, these beetles are responding to warmer temperatures, weaker trees, by blowing up.

Peri: Mountain pine beetles have killed a ton of whitebark pines, especially where they grow in mostly uninterrupted stands of just whitebark, like in the Yellowstone area and in parts of Idaho. And they kill them really dramatically and quickly. Whole hillsides of whitebark will turn red and then die within a couple of years. But here in Glacier, blister rust is an even more insidious threat.

Diana: This is a really serious situation because of course, it's a it's an invasive disease. It is not meant to be here. The tree really has very little resistance. This is this is a tough one.

Peri: Blister Rust is a fungus, but not like mushrooms you might picture on the forest floor. Blister rust grows inside the living tissue of other organisms, and its spores are spread through the air, entering through pores on the trees needles.

[somber synth music begins]

Diana: So when a tree gets blister rust, the infection begins in the needles and then will move down through the branches. And at that point, it's really not a big deal. It might kill a branch or something, but once it gets into the main stem of the tree, that's the problem, because there will begin to move horizontally around the tree, which causes something we call girdling. And it will kill this phloem layer that conducts the nutrients for the tree. And once it does that all the way around the tree, everything above that point on the tree dies. And so even if, like the bottom half of the tree is still alive, it's not going to produce cones anymore, so it becomes what we call ecologically dead. It's still alive, but it's not reproducing, it's not passing its genes on, and it's not helping the population survive. And eventually that part of the tree'll die, too.

[music finishes]

Peri: Blister rust spores spread under cool, damp conditions. So Glacier's climate is perfect for it. And it's killed between 50 and 90 percent of the whitebark in the park.

Diana: And there's been a lot of work on it, and luckily people are finding resistance.

Peri: That is, that a small percentage of whitebark pine are naturally resistant to blister rust.

Diana: They're having success at developing trees that can be planted out that have more resistance. So that's promising, but it's a real uphill battle.

Peri: In addition to pine beetles and blister rust, the third threat whitebark pine are facing is climate change. Which is a threat all on its own, but it also makes the other two worse.

[sad music begins to play]

Diana: I personally think climate change is the very biggest threat because that that's really the hardest to deal with, right? If we could find enough resistance to blister us, if we can find enough for the beetles, if they have that evolutionary adaptive capacity, they could probably persist. But then you throw climate change and makes the beetles worse. It can make blister rust worst in some places if it increases conditions for infection, but it is very much going to affect the range of where this tree can live. And so if you have a greatly changed climate, and it's too warm, it's too dry—even if you had all resistant trees, they can't live under those conditions. And you know, it kind of seems like a no brainer, but the forests that you have in a certain place are what they are because of the climate. So if you change the climate, you change the forest.

[music finishes, marking a transition]

Michael: To set the stage, white pine blister rust is a fungus native to China, and it affects white pines, which is a term that describes whitebark, pine and all of its closest relatives, like western and eastern white pines, limber pine, etc. It arrived in North America around 1900, but it didn't cross the ocean on its own. It hitched a ride on American pine trees growing in Europe.

Peri: Why were American trees growing in Europe?

Michael: They were being grown as timber species in nurseries, tree nurseries, which were a new concept at the turn of the century. Many people began to fear that the once limitless forests of North America were being depleted—turned into homes, paper, railroad ties. People like Gifford Pinchot, who would go on to become the first director of the U.S. Forest Service, began to advocate for the idea of modern forestry.

Peri: What would make it modern forestry?

Michael: Well really just forestry in general. It was kind of a revolutionary idea to treat forests like farms instead of like mines, you know, replanting things instead of just harvesting them. So in the early 1900s, you could raise seedlings in an American nursery, but it was expensive. There just weren't that many in this country yet. It was a lot easier and cheaper to send them to Europe. So you could send a white pine seed to a German nursery, and they would raise it into a tree and ship it back across the ocean. But a lot of people were cautioning against that because of the threat of blister rust.

Peri: So someone saw this coming from miles away.

Michael: Miles and years, because in 1898, Dr Carl A. Schenck, a German forester, predicted disaster for America's White Pines if we imported nursery stock from Europe, and that warning went unheeded.

Peri: [laughs wryly] I'm actually kind of shocked that they knew about blister rust and somehow it made it here anyway.

Michael: Yeah. About 10 years later, by 1909, the U.S. had imported millions of eastern white pines that had already, and unknowingly been infected with blister rust.

Peri: Well, hindsight is 20-20.

Michael: It is. Hindsight is 2020, but they didn't need hindsight. This exact story was already unfolding on the other side of the country with a different tree. The American chestnut.

Wendy: [over the phone] Do you want me to say hi or no hi?

Michael: [over the phone] You can say hi, and then your name.

Wendy: Okay.

Michael: So I enlisted some help from out east.

Wendy: Hi, my name is Wendy Cass, and I'm the botanist at Shenandoah National Park in Virginia.

Michael: Wendy works at Shenandoah, a national park in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Appalachia, and I wanted to talk to her because Shenandoah was home to a lot of American chestnut trees.

Wendy: About 35 percent of the park area was probably pure chestnuts, pure chestnut forest. And then another 40 percent or so of the park probably had chestnuts mixed into the canopy. They talk about how the mountains look like they were capped with snow in the spring because of all the chestnuts flowering here. So they were just enormously abundant.

Michael: They covered a range from Georgia to Maine, and they were enormous.

Wendy: Some of them had trunk diameters of, you know, eight or nine feet. That's diameter, not a circumference. And they would live for 100, well over 100 years. So these were just amazing trees.

[sparse acoustic guitar music begins]

Michael: I grew up in the Midwest. I spent time in Appalachia as a kid. I couldn't remember ever encountering an American chestnut. Not that I really knew much about the trees around me. But the only thing my mind kept coming back to was, Oh, it was probably the one referenced in Nat King Cole's "The Christmas Song."

Peri: Oh sure. "Chestnuts roasting on open fire?"

Michael: Yeah, I was like, That must be a reference to them.

Peri: Is it?

Susan: No, it was not.

Michael: It wasn't?

Susan: No, because that song was written in the 40s after American Chestnut had disappeared from the forests. Those were not American chestnuts. Those were the same kind of European chestnuts you buy on the street today. They're much bigger. They look different.

Michael: Luckily, I got a hold of Susan Freinkel.

Susan: My name is Susan Freinkel.

Michael: She wrote the book on chestnuts,

Susan: I'm the author of American Chestnut: The Life, Death and Rebirth of a Perfect Tree.

Michael: White pine blister was not the first forest pathogen encountered in the U.S., and it wasn't the deadliest, either. Our response to blister rust was informed directly by what we learned from another fungus: chestnut blight.

Susan: The blight that decimated chestnut trees is sort of the touchstone for anybody who works in forest pathology because it was such a devastating epidemic.

Michael: Like blister rust, chestnut blight was discovered in North America at the turn of the century in 1904.

Susan: A guy who worked at the New York Zoo noticed that some of the chestnuts in the zoo were dying. That was when people first became aware of the blight.

Michael: And just like blister rust, chestnut blight was invasive.

Peri: Well, where did the chestnut blight come from?

Michael: Well, it took a while, but scientists were able to determine that it was native to Asia.

Susan: This fungus had come from Asia and had probably arrived in the U.S. on Japanese and Chinese chestnuts that had been imported to the U.S. as sort of ornamental trees. But it doesn't kill the chestnut trees in China and Japan. They've sort of co-evolved with the fungus and are able to withstand it.

Michael: The blight's arrival to the New York Zoo was just the beginning.

Susan: You already had outbreaks that were taking place, but unrecognized in Virginia, in Pennsylvania, in New Jersey.

Michael: It's not like there was a proverbial patient zero, and everything stemmed from that. It was on all these different fronts across the nation at the time.

Susan: Exactly. There were, you know, thousands of patient zeros.

Michael: From each of these initial hosts, the blight, in the form of fungal spores, spread incredibly quickly.

Susan: And it's spread by air. It's spread by water. It's spread by, you know, squirrels’ paws, birds’ claws.

Michael: Once it infects a tree, it takes over.

Susan: It's a very, very lethal fungus. The trees died quickly. They would turn silvery, kind of gray color as the bark fell off and the wood died and people talked about, you know, coming across stands of these great ghosts or hearing the trees crash to the ground at night.

Michael: And contrasted with whitebark pine, a tree most folks have never heard of, American chestnuts were present in people's everyday lives. [sweet, joyful banjo song plays] It was a cradle to grave tree, meaning it was used to make everything from cribs to caskets, pianos, railroad ties, telegraph poles.

Susan: Chestnuts were a source of the lumber from which people built their homes. The bark would shingle their houses.

Michael: They were an especially important resource for the people of southern Appalachia.

Susan: They would stuff their mattresses with chestnut leaves. They would brew the leaves into poultices to deal, you know, as a remedy for colds. And the nuts were a really important source of both food and cash for them.

Michael: So when chestnuts started dying, people took notice.

Susan: When the blight first started killing trees, there was a lot of sort of sadness. There were headlines in the newspapers about chestnut trees dying.

[sad piano music begins to play]

Michael: "Goodbye, chestnuts," grieved one 1923 article in American forests, “what was formerly a majestic, soul inspiring landmark is now but a rotting stump, no more are they seen on Main Street. No longer do they stand in battalions in the forests. They are as few as the veterans of the Civil War and just as decrepit.” And nobody really knew what to do. The blight would shrug off all the normal sprays and fungicides used to treat individual trees before, which led other people to envision more drastic solutions.

Susan: There was this idea that maybe the way to stop the blight—you might not be able to rescue trees, you might not be able to rescue forests where it was already infected… But if you could sort of quarantine them, maybe that would be a way to stop the blight. And that's sort of a classic way to deal with, you know, what is essentially an infectious disease.

Michael: This was an attempt at preventative care. If you can't cure the blight, maybe you could stop it from spreading.

Susan: Sort of the most sad, heroic, but sort of misguided was the Pennsylvania effort, I think, is… [fades out as Michael narrates]

Michael: Pennsylvania took the idea of a quarantine zone to its logical extreme and set about dividing their state in half.

Susan: And they said, OK, you know, the eastern part of the state Philly region area around there, that's beyond salvation. All those chestnuts, we can't save them. But we're going to set up essentially like a firebreak in the middle of the state and every

Michael: Pennsylvania decided to inspect everything west of that line. All of western Pennsylvania. Inch by inch, cutting out anything diseased, in the hopes of blocking the blight from spreading westward. But it didn't work.

Susan: Now you're talking about a tree disease that may first appear as a few tiny little orange specks 70 feet above the ground. And the guys who are tramping through the forest looking for the fungus, they're surely transporting the spores on their shoes, on their axes, on their backpacks.

Peri: Wow. So this seems like a pretty overwhelming epidemic.

Michael: Right.

Peri: But were any of the trees naturally resistant?

Michael: That was my thought, too. And when I asked Susan, she said that politicians and scientists eventually came to the conclusion that the only way to salvage any value from chestnut trees was to cut them down before they got the blight.

[sad piano music plays]

Susan: They just started chopping down the trees everywhere.

Michael: Many believe that this practice may have erased whatever natural genetic resistance existed in chestnuts.

Susan: So it's probable that there is some innate resistance in chestnuts, but we actually never got a chance to discover that because so many of the trees either died by the blight or were chopped down by people trying to staunch the blight.

Michael: In the end, we couldn't stop it. The blight won. In just 40 years, it killed three to four billion chestnut trees. Here's Wendy Cass again, botanist at Shenandoah.

Wendy: I think we've mainly learned not to take the forest for granted—that the stable state of things around you is the way it will always be. They were surrounded by these, these enormous trees and everything seems stable and wonderful. And then in a matter of, for Shenandoah, you know, 10 years, every chestnut tree in the park was dead or dying.

Michael: Today, only small stumps remain. Occasionally sending up new shoots, just to have them get knocked back once again by the blight.

Peri: So there are still chestnuts trying to grow, but they're always killed after a few years before they can grow to maturity or reproduce.

Michael: Yeah, exactly. Which means that the American chestnut is functionally extinct. It's been erased from the landscape, and with each passing year, from our nation's cultural memory. The story of American chestnut and the legacy of chestnut blight—these are the stakes in our story. This is why people like Diana are worried about whitebark pine.

Peri: They fear the worst, because the worst has happened before.

Michael: And in a very direct way, chestnuts also influenced the fate of Glacier's trees. The same people that tried to stop chestnut blight were placed in charge of the fight against blister rust.

[somber, sparse music plays as Peri narrates, to mark a transition]

Peri: So we know how it got here and we know what can happen. What did we do about it?

[music ends]

Andrew: Before we get down to business today, Peri, I have something for you to try [Peri gasps excitedly] and do a little sampling.

Peri: Treats?!

Andrew: Uh, sort of. I’ll pour you a little bit of this. [pouring]

Peri: Great. All right. [sniffs, pauses] It smells very… vegetal.

Andrew: [laughs] Oh, okay.

Peri: Very sweet.

Andrew: Very sweet. Yeah, because it's a concentrate.

Peri: It tastes kind of like grape juice, but more mild, less acidic.

Andrew: So what you're drinking is Ribena. It's a currant juice from the United Kingdom, and it's actually a super popular beverage over there, but you've probably never heard of it. And that's because of blister rust. So this juice, Ribena, is made from currants. The name, of course, comes from ribes, which is what scientists call currant plants. And these are really important to our story because they are the alternate host for the white pine blister rust.

Peri: Okay, I remember Diana talking about that.

Andrew: Yeah. You'll remember, she says that white pine blister rust is a fungus, and it uses currants as part of its lifecycle. So it'll grow part of the year on the currants. And then when it's ready, it moves over and infests the whitebark pines. In 1911, the federal government banned the sale, cultivation and transport of black currant. And this ban was in place for over 50 years. It wasn't till 1966 that the federal ban was repealed.

Peri: [laughing] Wow.

Andrew: And to this day in three states New Hampshire, West Virginia and North Carolina, it's still illegal to grow your own currants.

Peri: So this is probably why I have not had currant juice before.

Andrew: [laughing] Exactly.

[sweet and expansive piano music begins]

Peri: And so the thinking was, if we didn't have currants, we wouldn't be able to spread blister rust.

Andrew: Yeah, blister rust needs currants to continue its life cycle. It can't just grow on the trees. It needs to spend part of its life on the bushes and part of its life on a pine.

Peri: So they figured: ban currants and we're rid of blister rust.

Andrew: Yeah. And that seemed to make sense at the time, but there were also a ton of wild currants in the United States.

Peri: Uh oh.

Andrew: This was not really a thing in Europe. Most currants there were cultivated, but you go out hiking in Glacier National Park, you'll see currant bushes all over the place.

Peri: Yup.

Andrew: So even with the ban on cultivated currants, whitebark pines were not safe. There were all sorts of wild sources for this white pine blister rust.

Peri: So what did they try to do about it?

Andrew: Well, to save America's white pines, the blister rust control, or BRC program was created. And from 1939 to 1965, the program operated here in Glacier National Park. And their goal was to save whitebark pine and western white pine by eradicating currants entirely.

Peri: [in disbelief] They tried to completely remove a native plant from the ecosystem.

Andrew: Yeah, it sounds pretty crazy in retrospect, but there is a certain logic behind it. It basically became clear that currants and white pines couldn't coexist. You had to pick one or the other. And white pines are so important here that people wanted to choose them and eliminate the currants.

Peri: I see. And so what did they try to do?

Andrew: Well, they hired these crews of young men. They would go out in the park and try to just remove all of the currants that were near white pines. They would do it manually, chopping them or pulling them, or by spraying herbicides onto these bushes. In total, they removed 4,630,900 ribes, or currant, plants just from Glacier National Park.

Peri: [laughing, disbelieving] Four million plants is so many plants!

Andrew: It's pretty hard to even comprehend or picture how many plants that is. It was a huge undertaking, and we can learn more about it because one of our own, Ranger Doug Follett, actually joined one of these crews in 1942. Doug is a local legend here, now in his 90s, he spent over 50 summers as a ranger. But his first job in the park was on one of these blister rust crews.

[pensive, sparse guitar and banjo music begins playing]

Doug: Well, I was 16. I think. I was part of a blister rust crew, and the blister rust is the white pine disease. And the government agencies—Forest Service, Park Service—to my knowledge, they all had anti-blister rust programs. And blister rust is a spore disease that goes from the white pine tree and matures—it is blown on to the ribes bushes which are wild currant and gooseberry bushes. And there it ripens and blows back and kills the white pines. And so in the beginning, the programs were to pull that intermediate part of the equation—pull out the gooseberry bushes. And that's what I did.

Andrew: So Doug calls them gooseberries there, that's another name for ribes or currant plants. And the work he's describing, this is really tough, backbreaking work.

Doug: Oh God, I look—we didn't think anything about it. I look back now and I say, “How did I do it? I can't pull carrots out of a wet garden now!”

Peri: [laughs] Oh man. Doug is the best. But how did this all work?

Andrew: Well, to make sure that they got every single plant out of there, they would set up these grids with string.

Doug: We threw string balls, about 30 feet apart and two guys worked between the string balls. And the mountains were covered with that very, very fine butcher shop string that all the grocers and the butchers used in those days. A very fine string that disintegrated—but temporarily, all the animals were running around wrapped in grocery store string because the mountainsides were covered with these string lines.

Andrew: Ribes plants could either be pulled by hand, or sprayed with herbicides. The herbicides that the blister control program used were 245T and 24D. When you mix these chemicals together in equal proportion, you get the famous chemical agent orange.

Peri: Wow, that's wild.

Andrew: Yeah, but their methods changed over time. In 1944, Doug turned 18 and joined the Air Force. By the time he got back to his blister rust control work, Glacier's ribes eradication program was mostly given up on in favor of directly applying fungicides onto trees.

Peri: So they were trying to directly kill the blister rust fungus?

Andrew: Yeah, they came up with these really interesting techniques for applying it. I'll let Doug describe that again.

Doug: And at that time, the muscle-bound jocks from the university, building up for the football season, were now carrying five-gallon cans of poison on their backs and squirting that poison with a little hatchet hose right into the white pine trees trying to save them.

Peri: Uh, did I hear that right?

Andrew: Yeah, they were actually cutting into the trees with little hatchets and then injecting poison—fungicide—into the trees. There were also aerial fungicide programs where helicopters would drop these chemicals out onto whitebark forests in the park. In Glacier in 1965 alone, which was the last year of the blister rust control program, 124,000 White Pines were sprayed using fungicide phytoactin L440.

Peri: OK, that's a huge effort. And so did it work?

Andrew: Not exactly. Kate Kendall, the bear biologist we spoke with in the last episode, also studied the BRC program. And she said the main thing it accomplished was putting some men through college. [somber, expansive music begins to play] In 2001, when she studied it, almost 88 percent of the park's whitebark pines had either been killed or infected by white pine blister rust.

Peri: So what were they doing wrong?

Andrew: Well, for one, these fungicides they were spraying had basically no effect, they didn't really kill the blister rust. But there were also problems with the ribes eradication. It was easy enough to find and remove the first 80 percent or so of these currant bushes. You only need a few ribes plants to make it through this process to keep spreading that disease. But one of the biggest issues was that it turned out ribes were not the only hosts of the white pine blister rust. People eventually realized that paintbrush and lousewort plants were actually spreading white pine blister rust as well.

Peri: Paintbrush is one of our most common wildflowers. I mean, if I picture high elevation meadow, like one that would have some whitebark pine in it, it probably has paintbrush all over the place.

Andrew: Yeah. So even if you wanted to get rid of it, you probably couldn't. But people also started to think, maybe it's not a good idea to try to remove all of these pieces from this ecosystem. What other effects might that have if we have that level of intervention? So as the blister rust control program wound down—and blister rust continue to ravage the park's whitebark, western white and limber pines—a different approach was badly needed.

[somber synth music begins to play]

Peri: Listening to these stories of people cutting down all the remaining chestnuts or trying to pull every ribes plant in Glacier, the dramatic irony is really strong. We know now that those efforts were never going to work. But, while it may be easy to dismiss these projects based on how they turned out, you have to admire how much these people cared—that they would go to these lengths just to save a tree. And nearly 80 years later, Doug Follett is still writing poems about the trees of Glacier. [music ends] Today, people are working just as hard, though they have the advantage of some extra decades of science and technology. I'd like to think, then, that we're better off—but we also don't know what the future holds. Will our grandchildren look back and think we were just as naive?

[sad, pensive music plays to mark a transition]

Peri: [in the field, sounds of footsteps in a meadow and voices on a trail in the distance] So we just stepped off the trail into a little kind of clearing where there are a ton of subalpine fir, the kind of Christmas tree looking ones, and then there are a whole variety of whitebark too—a lot of them are dead. There's a few bushy looking live ones and some kind of in between half-alive, half-dead or some red blister rust flags on them. We're pretty close to a popular trail or just just stepped off the trail so I can hear people hiking by on the trail, and they probably don't even know that there's whitebark here. So we hiked all the way up here to core a tree.

Diana: I'd like to core one of these living trees that looks pretty healthy. Take a look at its life, basically, because when you take a core out of a tree, every ring is a year that that tree has survived on the landscape. And that little ring, each one of those rings will tell you how it responded to that year. And so it's really like pulling all these pages of a book out of a tree and being able to read its autobiography. [sound of a bee near the microphone; joyful banjo music briefly plays] And so I would like to take a look at that really big tree over there that looks really good. It's been around for a long time. It's, you know, a lot of stuff. And so I think it'll be really interesting to take a peek inside that tree.

Peri: Coring a tree means boring into the center of the tree, ideally, and pulling out a thin piece shaped like a dowel. It's an ideal way to learn about the tree because you get lots of information from a core, but it doesn't hurt the tree.

[music ends]

Diana: I can't tell if it has blister rust from here. It might have some dead branches, but overall it looks really good. So let's take a look at this one.

[rustling sounds as Diana steps toward the tree]

Peri: The tool Diana uses to copy the tree is basically a long, hollow screw that she twists into the tree, using a T-shaped handle on one end.

Diana: And kind of the trick is you want to get it perfectly aimed into this tiny little spot in the tree called the pith that's probably a few millimeters wide, and you want to hit that.

Peri: [in the field] Easy! [laughing with Diana]

Diana: Yeah, I'm remarkably good at doing it. But today, when somebody is watching, of course I'll be way off, but we'll see. [a soft clicking noise begins]

Peri: That clicking you're hearing, that's the sound the core makes each time Diana turns it 180 degrees.

Peri: [in the field] Cause people have probably seen a, you know, a cross section of a tree, looked at the stump.

Diana: Right.

Peri: [in the field] And so what you're aiming for is the center?

Diana: That little dark spot in the middle, yeah. And you don't have to have it for every kind of research you do. But if you want to know the true age of the tree and what is experienced its whole life, you really do want to get all the way into that point. Then we just stick this little thing in here we call a spoon, all the way down the core center and flip it over, and that breaks the core off inside. And then hopefully the core comes out. And it did! Okay, let's see what we've got here.

Peri: [in the field] Wow!

Diana: Isn’t that cool?

Peri: [in the field] So you can see the rings going—so they start out kind of horizontal. And then as you get towards the center of the tree, it kind of curves around it and you can see…

Diana: Right.

Peri: [in the field] That's where the heart of the tree would be?

Diana: Right! Right.

Peri: [in the field] Wow, that's amazing!

Diana: So I just missed the heart by a few millimeters. So it would have been right here. And then these are those that are wrapping around it. So that's the— the center, or the heart of the tree.

Peri: [in the field] It's really beautiful.

Diana: It is. This one has really tiny rings. It's been slow growing its whole life. Even when it was young, it was very slow growing.

Peri: [in the field] So we're looking at a couple hundred years, probably, of growth?

Diana: Oh yeah, easy.

Peri: [in the field] So like the first knuckle on my first finger is maybe, 30 years.

Diana: Uh-huh.

Peri: [in the field] So to go four, five, six seven… so that's 250 years. Maybe?

Diana: Yeah.

Peri: [in the field] Wow.

Diana: Yeah. The beetles like the fast-growing whitebark pine. Invariably, when we record trees that the beetles killed and compare them to the surviving trees, the survivors were slow-growing whitebarks. And they also, we think, are more tolerant to drought, because if you're slow growing, have less demand for water. And so you have some resistance to beetles, and you can probably survive in a warmer, drier climate.

Peri: [in the field] It's like the tortoise and the hare.

Diana: [laughing] Yes.

Peri: [in the field] Don't overextend yourself.

Diana: And it's genetic. They can pass it on to their offspring.

Peri: [in the field] And so I keep looking at the core. So if we start like, is this the Dust Bowl? Like we probably wouldn't know.

Diana: Don't know! Yeah. And boy, I've looked at some trees with Dust Bowl signatures, you look like, “my god, how did you survive that?” You can see the struggle going on in that tree. And then you look at this, and it's like, “you've had a very boring life, haven't you?”

[both laugh]

Peri: [in the field] Just happy go lucky!

Diana: You know, it just kind of plug along, you know, but you're alive and these guys aren't. So yeah, yeah.

[somber, ambiguous music begins to play]

Peri: I spent a lot of time looking at that little core of wood—all the little lines, each marking a year of survival. What Diana sees when she examines a tree, and what she shared with me, is the life lived in those lines. The good years and bad, and the hardships it's overcome—drought years, avalanches, wildfires. People that walk by might notice the dead trees, but they wouldn't get to read the trees’ story this way. This ecological education I'm getting is a double-edged sword. The more I learn about these trees, the more I'm starting to love and admire them. But it's also painful to understand what we're losing.

[music ends, marking a transition]

Diana: And I took an art class, and it was “Identity in America,” and I had to pick an identity and then express myself with my art. And that's when I named myself a coroner rather than an ecologist and knew that I had a job shift. [sad piano and synth music begins to play as you hear the emotion in Diana’s voice] And that day nailed me to the wall, and I'm actually getting emotional right now. I'm having a very hard time with it. And I don't even know if I want to do science anymore. And that's my passion, because why? You get into ecology, because you love life and you want to know more about what makes it tick and how it works. And because you find the intricacies and everything is just so magical. And anymore, uh, it's hard to go to work because what I see is all the things I love falling apart around me. I study symbiosis and I see them being pulled apart. You know, an ecologist is going to see a lot more than just a regular person walking around in the forest, you're going to see a lot of things that nobody else notices and it's—it's traumatic.

[music ends]

Peri: [in the field] Like what is the worst-case scenario? Like, how bad could things get?

Diana: Personally, I think we will have a lot of environmental destruction, massive extinction, and societal collapse. I think we have a real ethical and moral dilemma with how we treat life around us. I think we have an obligation to support everything that's living on this planet, and not just for our own benefit. Everything has its own right to exist.

Peri: [in the field] So one of the questions that we're exploring is whether people can have a positive impact on the world around us, on the natural world.

Diana: I think we can, but will we—I guess, is the right question because so far we're not doing a very good job.

[quiet, sad piano music begins]

Peri: [in the field] Even if we can help save the species, we've lost a lot and we will lose a lot. And I think a lot of conservation looks back at, “we've broken things, how do we fix them? How do we put them back to how they used to be?” And maybe that's not a helpful frame anymore because we can't put them back.

[music ends, marking the end of the episode]

[plucky, sparse banjo music begins]

Michael: Next time on Headwaters, we meet the people trying to save whitebark pine, and they can be found… climbing trees.

Doug T: You get a really unique perspective being in the top of them, looking at these like big beautiful cones. Nothing like a whitebark pine cone.

Michael: Reaching all the way out to the ends of their branches to place cages over their cones, keeping them away from all the animals that rely on their seeds.

[music ends; guitar music begins and plays under the credits]

Peri: Headwaters is a production of Glacier National Park with support from our partner, the Glacier National Park Conservancy. Glacier is the traditional lands of several Native American tribes, including the Aamsskáápipikani, Kootenai, Séliš, and Ql̓ispé people. Headwaters was created by Daniel Lombardi. Andrew Smith, Peri Sasnett, and Michael Faist produced, edited and hosted the show. Ben Cosgrove wrote and performed our music, and Claire Emery let us use her woodcut piece titled "Wind Poem" for this season's cover art.

Peri: Special thanks this episode to Bill Hayden, Annie Gustavson, Rebecca Lawrence, Diana Six, Wendy Cass, Susan Freinkel, Glenn Taylor, Stacy Clark, Tara Carolyn, Doug Follett, everyone with Glacier's Native Plant Program, the Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation, and so many others. And if you liked this episode, share it with someone else who loves Glacier.

[music ends]

Lacy: This is like for the end?

Daniel: This is in it, yeah. You saying that? That's gonna be in it.

Michael: [laughs]

Lacy: The Glacier Conservancy is the official fundraising partner of Glacier National Park. To learn more, visit glacier.org.

Peri: I think that's the best time you've done yet.

Lacy: OK, do I need to get one more time?

Michael: I think we're good.

Peri: Yeah I think this is good.

Mountain pine beetles, an invasive fungus, and climate change—is whitebark pine doomed?

The Glacier Conservancy: https://glacier.org/ Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation: https://whitebarkfound.org/ American Chestnut book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520259942/american-chestnut Documentary about Ranger Doug: https://www.instagram.com/rangerdougfilm/ Pictures of whitebark pine: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWJ2S4F Ben Cosgrove Music: https://www.bencosgrove.com/

Episode 4

Whitebark Pine | Chapter Four

Transcript

Lacy: Headwaters is brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

[pensive guitar music begins playing]

Doug: You get a really unique perspective being in the top of them, looking at these like big, beautiful cones. Nothing like a whitebark pine cone.

Peri: Back in July, I found myself high on a ridge on the east side of the park, overlooking the Blackfeet Reservation, listening to climbing gear jingle like wind chimes. [climbing gear clacking together]

Annie: Doug has nice long arms to reach out on those branches.

Doug: You think I have nice arms Annie?

Annie: You have nice arms, Doug. [everyone laughs]

Peri: Doug Tyte is a member of Glacier's revegetation crew. Every summer, the park sends Doug, with his long arms, and the rest of the reveg crew to find and then climb healthy whitebark pine trees that have lots of cones. And because whitebark pine cones grow way at the end of the top of their branches, Doug had to climb way up and reach way out to get them. Dangling from Doug's harness were homemade wire mesh cages, the size and shape of a gallon Ziploc bag that he slid over the ends of cone laden branches, crimping down the edges and locking the cones off from the world.

Doug: Three!

Reveg Crew: Three. Three!

Peri: Each time he put on a new cage, Doug would shout down to everyone below the number of cones in it.

Doug: Five!

Reveg Crew: Five! Five.

Peri: But that was back in July. It's a few months later now in September, and I'm revisiting the tree with Doug, only to find that not all of the cages did their job.

Peri: [in the field] Yeah, you can see the claw marks all the way up the trunk.

Peri: The fresh claw marks showed that a bear had taken interest in this tree and its cones.

Levi: See how deep the nails went in.

Peri: [in the field] Yeah, wow.

Levi: Dang.

Doug: It's pretty cool.

Peri: [in the field] It is impressive.

Doug: You can see there's tons of old claw marks too on this thing.

Levi: Yeah, this one has claw marks every year, it seems like.

Peri: After confirming that all bears had vacated the tree, we got set up to climb the tree again.

[guitar music plays softly]

Doug: [climbing gear jingling and clacking] Alright. Lanyards,.

Carleton: Four inch, you good?

Doug: Got my four inch.

Carleton: Some webbing?

Doug: I got webbing. New fancy one.

Peri: [in the field] So how long have you been climbing trees

Doug: Since I could walk. [laughs] But for the government for two years.

Peri: [in the field] So Doug's climbing up the tree, he's making it look pretty easy, actually. How many cones do you think are on this tree?

Doug: Total? I think we got an estimate when we climbed it.

Carleton: 215. He caged 107.

Peri: [in the field] Wow.

Carleton: Using twenty two cages.

Peri: [in the field] How does that compare to other trees? It's just like...

Carleton: It's pretty—it's a high number. I think our highest number of this season was 200...

Peri: The trees they climb are special. Most whitebarks I see around the park do not have hundreds of cones. It's pretty rare for these trees to start producing cones before they're at least 50 years old. And even then, the younger ones usually only manage to grow a handful.

Doug: I mean, this tree isn't that large.

Peri: [in the field] No.

Doug: But it's like a good cone producer.

Peri: After all we've learned about how many species rely on whitebark pine seeds, it seems a little strange that we're actively preventing animals from accessing them. But even on these trees, only about half the cones are caged.

Peri: [in the field] Doug actually told me a story on the way up that once he was caging cones on a tree that had sort of two main trunks coming up, and this nutcracker landed in the one next to him and was just kind of harassing him: “caw, caw, caw”—like, "what are you doing? Those are supposed to be my cones!"

Peri: Perched in the top of the tree, Doug pulls off the cages with the cones inside, then carefully tosses them down to the crew waiting below. Kind of like a bride tossing her bouquet to the waiting bridesmaids.

Doug: Okay, this is gonna be a tricky throw.

Levi: Yup.

Doug: Ready?

Levi: Yup. [catching sound]

[Headwaters season two theme starts playing: somber piano music]

Peri: So everyone is kind of packing up all their gear, and someone hands me this big burlap sack with all of the cones in it from this tree. And it's pretty light, but it kind of makes me think that there's a lot in this bag. The seeds in these cones are our answer to blister rust—they're the hope for our future forests, and they have a long journey ahead of them.

[Theme music ends]

Peri: Hi, I'm Peri.

Andrew: I'm Andrew.

Michael: And I'm Michael. This is Season Two of Headwaters, a podcast from Glacier National Park.

Andrew: This is Chapter Four of a five-episode season, which is all about whitebark pine. In the past three episodes, we've learned about why this tree is important to people and our cultures, how so many pieces of our ecosystem are connected to it, and why it's at risk.

Peri: Now we're going to meet the people trying to save it.

[short segment of guitar music plays to mark a transition]

Peri: The world of whitebark pine is full of giants. Everywhere I turn, I encounter another brilliant ecologist who's been studying these trees for longer than I've been alive. Luckily for me, a group called the Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation has gathered all of these giants together. In 2021, the High Five conference, as in five-needle pines, was hosted virtually, and with help from the Glacier Conservancy, I registered to attend.

Rob: We have a terrific conference planned for you...

Peri: The conference is a three-day event with over 100 different talks, all in service of saving a tree. Sitting in to listen, I got to hear about all the work still being done to shape the future of whitebark pine restoration.

Diana T: [fading in under Peri’s narration, then back out] I look forward to seeing you all at the question and answer panel discussion, after...

Peri: And who better to talk with about the history of whitebark pine restoration than two leaders in the field?

Diana T: [voice over the phone] I'm Diana Tomback…

Peri: Diana is a professor in Integrative Biology, and one of the foremost names in whitebark pine.

Diana T: [laughs] pulling it off my shelf

Peri: Reaching up to grab it early in her video call, Diana literally wrote the book on whitebark restoration. But when she started her career in the 70s doing research on whitebark pine and Clark's nutcrackers…

Diana T: There was nothing on my radar screen, nothing on the horizon to indicate that this species would be in the trouble that it is today. We have to thank Steve Arno and Jim Brown for the foresight back in the 1980s to realize that the Northern Rockies was losing its whitebark pine.

Peri: I also connected with Bob Keane, a now-retired Forest Service scientist that has worked on whitebark for decades.

Bob: [voice over the phone] I was working with Steve Arno and his research that he was doing in the high elevations, and well, what I saw was the fact that there were many whitebark pines that were dead. And I just thought it was, this is what happens up high when plants grow, they often die because it's so cold and icy and snowy up here. But Arno said, no, no, these plants can easily handle the ice and cold. These trees are dying because of an exotic blister rust.

[slightly ominous banjo music begins playing]

Peri: There was no single turning point that woke everyone up to the decline of whitebark pine. Instead, it was this slow accumulation of new science and growing concern. That said, one moment did stand out. In 1998, Bob, Diana, and other leaders in the field gathered for a conference and presented data that showed just how rapidly whitebark was declining. But it was what happened after the conference, after the talks ended, and the posters were packed up, that Diana said was pivotal.

Diana T: And that conference, Restoring Whitebark Pine Ecosystems, is the one that really made a bunch of us think, “Where do we go from here?” So I recall when the conference was over, it was that afternoon, and everyone had picked up and gone home except us. [laughing] We were sitting around with a can of beer or something asking each other, “Where do we go next?” And a suggestion was made by Dana Perkins, who's with the BLM, that perhaps we should consider forming a nonprofit.

Peri: That casual brainstorming turned into the Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation, which has been a key advocate for whitebark pine science and restoration for the last 20 years. They're the central guiding organization for whitebark pine restoration, and the group hosting this conference.

Diana T: A number of us who came out of that era came to realize that the ecosystems that we were studying, they were deteriorating from various anthropogenic problems.

Peri: [to Diana] So once you recognized that blister rust was kind of the key problem and you knew you needed to take action, how did you know what to do? Did you have to start from scratch?

Diana T: Well, the tools were there already.

Peri: A stroke of luck, if you want to call it that, is that blister rust affects most five-needle pines, not just whitebark, including some important timber species like sugar pine and white pine. So people had already been thinking about how to fix this problem as early as the 1950s. So there was a bit of a road map for how to address this problem. What Diana and Bob had to do was adjust it to work for whitebark.

Diana T: Bob Keane was lead author, I was second author, on what became the restoration manual for whitebark pine.

Peri: The key was that some whitebark pine showed natural resistance to blister rust, just as scientists had observed with other five-needle pines back in the 50s. So the plan was to identify those resistant trees, grow their seedlings, and plant them back on the land, increasing the overall amount of resistance in the population. Bringing in all these different agencies and different disciplines is key to get the restoration plan right, especially considering that whitebark pine could soon be listed under the Endangered Species Act. As of fall 2021, it's already listed as endangered in Canada and is proposed for listing in the U.S.

Diana T: Well, my attitude is this is important work. It's probably a capstone piece of work for all the work that I've done on Whitebark Pine. But it's not over until the nutcracker caws or whatever, cracks. [both laugh] [sweet, hopeful piano music plays] You can't assume that things are going to tick along just fine. You have to keep putting that energy and that push there. So it's these kinds of things that have galvanized a number of us to actually act to do something.

Bob: I think it would be sad that for a person who's worked in that ecosystem for so long, if we didn't do anything, I would feel unbelievably guilty that I spent my career studying an ecosystem that was doomed to be absent from the landscape in the future. And I think we have a responsibility to actually restore this because we—humans—were the reason that the rust is actually here.

Peri: I also asked Bob what other conservation efforts could learn from whitebark pine.

Bob: It takes the zeal of others in order to get things done. And of course, I worked for the Forest Service all my career, I've seen this big agency and saw how things get done, and it's glacial. And if I look at all the great things that the Forest Service has done, it is all because of some dedicated zealous individual that went out despite everybody else, and on top of their regular job, went out and did something good for the land.

[piano music resolves and ends, marking a transition]

Peri: But having a plan is just the start. For every Diana Tomback and Bob Keane, who are figuring out how these trees work and creating a plan to restore them, you also need people like Doug Tyte, with his long arms, to climb the trees and harvest the cones, and Rebecca Lawrence, to shepherd the seeds on their journey and get them planted back on the landscape.

Peri: [in the field] This is a bag of cones that we collected the other day.

Rebecca: Yes.

Peri: [in the field] Cool.

Rebecca: Yes, it is.

Peri: [in the field] These are very sappy.

Rebecca: They are starting to dry out a little bit.

Peri: [in the field] Oh yeah, you can see some of the—

Rebecca: So you can you can peel off the scales and then you see the seeds sitting right in there.

Peri: [in the field] Oh, cool.

Peri: That's Rebecca, who's been coordinating Glacier's native plant restoration program for years. I met with her at Glacier's native plant nursery, this remarkable garden-like compound and greenhouse where they grow thousands of native plants. Rebecca and her team raise dozens of different species, which allows the park to restore plants after disturbances like construction projects. And like so many things at Glacier, the native plant program benefits from the support of the Glacier National Park Conservancy. Harvesting the cones is just the start of these seeds' journey, and Rebecca helped take us through the process. We send most of our whitebark cones, like the ones we collected at the start of the episode, to a Forest Service nursery in Coeur d'Alene Idaho, which is about four hours west of here. That nursery has special expertise in growing whitebark pine seedlings, and they can grow 300,000 of them a year, from all across the Rocky Mountains. After the cones arrive, Rebecca explained that the first step is also the messiest: opening the tough, sappy cone to get the seeds out.

Peri: [in the field] What's that like to open up a whitebark pine cone and get the seeds out? [laughs]

Rebecca: I really wish I had a beak [both laughing] to do the same thing that the Clarks Nutcrackers do very effortlessly, so it's definitely... [Rebecca’s audio fades out as Peri starts narrating]

Peri: Without beaks to rely on, nursery workers have another solution: heat. They store the cones at 105 degrees Fahrenheit, which causes them to dry and helps the scales open up a little bit, so the seeds can be shaken out. [shaking sound] The most challenging part is simulating the combination of environmental factors you need to get the seeds to actually germinate.

Rebecca: They're trying to mimic what it would go through in nature. They found that if they put the seeds in a warm stratification and then a cold stratification... [Rebecca’s audio fades out as Peri starts narrating]

Peri: Figuring all this out wasn't easy. It was kind of like having all the ingredients to bake a cake, but not knowing what temperature to bake it at or for how long. After 30 days in the warmth and 90 days in a walk-in cooler, seeds are ready to be planted in a little carrot-shaped pot.

Rebecca: They will plant that into the cone. Usually, they put one to two seeds per cone.

Peri: [in the field] And so when you say cone, you're not talking about pinecones, you're talking about the little—

Rebecca: Right. Sorry, that's confusing, isn't it? Yes, it's the cone-tainer [Peri laughs] is what it often gets called.

Peri: The seeds stay in their cone-tainers in the nursery for two years while they develop a root system strong enough to survive in the wild.

Rebecca: At one year, they don't have enough roots, they're not strong enough really to go out and be planted.

Peri: [in the field] Oh, okay.

Peri: Finally, Rebecca and her team pick up the two-year-old seedlings from the nursery and bring them back to the park to plant. All told, the process from caging to planting takes almost two and a half years, and the seeds will travel at least 500 miles.

[pensive piano music plays briefly, marking a transition]

Peri: So, Andrew. If we're following Diana and Bob's plan to restore whitebark pine, then we're maybe like halfway through?

Andrew: Yeah, it's a pretty long and complicated process. So far, we've identified the problem; we've collected the cones; and then we've sent them off to the nursery in Idaho. There, the seeds were extracted from the cones and planted in growing pots.

Peri: So on a really basic level, the plan is to restore whitebark by planting more of them in areas where they've died out, which seems simple enough. Want more whitebark in the park? Plant more whitebark. But we learned last episode that these trees are threatened by blister rust, which is an invasive fungus, and by pine beetles, which are native, but climate change is making them more deadly. How do we know that those won't just kill these new seedlings when we plant them back out in the park?

Andrew: Right. If the little seedlings we plant can't survive, then this whole effort doesn't get us anywhere. The whole restoration project centers on the fact that some trees are more resistant to these threats, and those trees are called plus trees. Simply put, plus trees are those selected for breeding because of their exceptional genes. The term can be used to denote trees that are special for a variety of reasons, like ones that produce a lot of fruit in an orchard. But for us, a plus tree would be one with genetic resistance to white pine blister rust.

Peri: So like an A-plus tree?

Andrew: Right.

Peri: So they only harvest cones and plant seedlings from trees that have demonstrated that they can survive. But walk me through this—what does genetic resistance mean?

Andrew: A tree is going to have all sorts of different characteristics. It might be tall or short, could be wide or narrow, fast growing, slow growing, it will have a color and a scent to it. Some of these traits are going to be determined by the tree's environment: how much rain and sun it gets, how cold or windy the location is. But trees also inherit some characteristics from their parents.

Peri: Trees have parents?

Andrew: Yeah.

Peri: I guess I never thought about it that way.

Andrew: [laughing] Yeah, a whitebark is going to have a mom and a dad, although not quite in the same way a human might. Whitebark pines are monoecious, which means that male and female cones grow on the same tree, so there's not separate male and female trees. Pollen from a male cone is blown by the wind onto a female cone on another tree, which fertilizes it and creates a seed. So if you picture a pine cone in your head, what you're probably imagining is one of the female cones. The characteristics that a tree inherits from its parents are called its genetic traits, and they're stored in the tree's DNA and can be passed on from generation to generation.

Peri: Okay, I'm remembering this from high school biology.

[pensive guitar music begins to play]

Andrew: Yeah, so some of the tree's characteristics might make it less susceptible to certain threats. For example, a tree might generate a lot of resin and be able to drown beetles that invade it. And if this resin-producing trait is genetic, then all the seeds that this tree produces could also have that trait. But if there's another tree that's also unaffected by beetles, but it's unaffected because it lives in such a cold environment that the beetles can't live there, that's not genetic. If its seed is planted in a warmer location, or if that location starts to warm up due to climate change, the beetle can still kill that tree—that protection doesn't last from generation to generation. So finding trees with inheritable resistance is really important. And luckily, there are some whitebark that are naturally resistant to blister rust. Here's Professor Diana Six, who we cored a tree with in the last episode. She's an expert in whitebark pine genetics.

Diana S: Why genetics are so important is that information is what can be passed on to offspring. Because if it can't be passed on to offspring, it's not going to help future populations or future generations. And so we get super excited if we can say it's genetic, because it means that it influences the future. And that information, that resistance can be passed on.

Andrew: People have been breeding plants and animals for desirable traits as long as agriculture has existed. That's the reason that things like corn or domestic dogs exist. So this concept is not new, but the application to conservation and specifically for whitebark pine restoration is a more recent technique.

Peri: Okay, so plus trees are important for their ability to create offspring that have resistance to rust or beetles. But how does genetic resistance work? Is there just a gene that kind of turns the resistance on or off, like a light switch?

Andrew: Well, first of all, it can be really difficult to locate specific whitebark pine genes because their genome, which is the sum total of all their DNA, is so huge. It's almost nine times larger than the human genome.

Peri: Wow.

Andrew: And to make it even more complicated, each pine might have quite different genes than its neighbors.

Diana S: The amount of genetic diversity in conifers is some of the highest in the world. And so when you look at these trees around here, they all look the same. They're all really different. They're more different than if we looked across a crowd of people at a concert—way more different.

Andrew: So if blister rust resistance came from a single gene, that would make things a little simpler…

Diana S: That makes it simple, or it makes it sound simple if there's one gene. But it's also dangerous because that means that the fungus or the beetle can evolve to overcome that. Most resistance involves a whole bunch of genes, a whole lot of mechanisms. And so it means that you're having to deal with a real mix, and that makes it more complicated to be able to select trees, maybe if you want to do replantings or things like that.

Andrew: Blister rust resistance appears to be one of those more complicated things, it's influenced by a handful of genes.

Diana S: Blister rust, there's been so much work on it, they're really beginning to narrow down five or six different aspects that produce resistance.

Peri: And so what about for beetles?

Andrew: Not as much is known about the genetic beetle resistance. Diana's research has found that beetles prefer to attack fast-growing trees, although it's not really clear how they would know if a tree is fast- or slow-growing.

Diana S: You know they're not out taking a core and going, “okay, this one,” you know? [laughs] So that's our question right now, and we're looking at things like non-structural carbons and sugars. But it is surprising that we know so little about the resistance. We know it's out there, but we don't know what's driving it quite yet.

Peri: Okay, that's getting pretty complicated. What are non-structural carbons?

Andrew: Yeah, I thought you might ask. It got a little bit confusing there. So trees, as I'm sure you know, are mostly made of carbon, and most of that carbon is in their wood. But wood is really tough. It's not very good to eat, even for a beetle, and the carbon that makes up the wood is called structural carbon.

Diana S: But then the carbon that's not structural is like sugars, carbohydrates, and these are things that fungi or insects going into a tree can use as food. And so we're looking to see if that isn't something that drives beetle choices of trees, and that somehow they use that to distinguish between these fast- and slow-growing trees.

Peri: Okay, so this is pretty cool. So the beetles can essentially taste how fast growing the tree is.

Andrew: That's right, a slow growth habit might confer resistance to beetles, and the beetles might be able to sense that through taste. But let's not get too far afield here. For our purposes, plus trees are those that are selected for breeding because they are, or at least likely to be, resistant to blister rust. And in turn, their offsprings are likely to be resistant to the rust as well. These plus trees make up the backbone of the whitebark pine restoration program in Glacier National Park.

Peri: So by picking which trees we collect cones from and then replant, we're kind of shepherding the genetic future of this tree.

Andrew: Yeah. Conservation genetics is really a big part of our strategy with whitebark pine restoration. We can shape the gene pool to include more rust resistant trees by being selective about the seeds that we use.

Peri: And so if we're trying to shape the genes of this species, is new technology like gene editing being used?

Andrew: Technology can definitely help us, but gene editing is not one of the tools currently being considered. Whitebark pine has so much genetic diversity on the landscape—diversity that might increase its resilience to climate change and beetles. So using the seeds of wild trees is still preferred, but technology could have an impact on this strategy. A scientist named David Neal is working on creating a “23 and Me” type test for whitebark pines.

Peri: One of those at home genetics tests to learn about your ancestry?

Andrew: Exactly. But this test could help biologists quickly and cheaply identify the trees that have those rust resistant genes. And then we can focus our limited resources on planting the seeds from trees that we already know for sure are rust resistant.

[acoustic guitar music plays briefly to mark a transition]

Peri: So we harvested cones from trees that show resistance to blister rust. And now we have seedlings that have grown from those seeds. But where do we plant them? It turns out that recently-burned areas are the perfect place, which is why I talked with the park's fire ecologist, Summer.

Summer: I'm Summer Kemp-Jennings.

Peri: Pretty much anywhere you get up high in Glacier, there are incredible sweeping views of the park, and you can almost always see evidence of past fires on the land around you.

Summer: I love it when you get up to a point like this in the park [sweet, hopeful banjo melody plays] and you can really see the effect of fire on a big landscape, and it just really is a mosaic across this entire landscape. In the Northern Rockies, fire is the primary disturbance agent, and as long as there has been vegetation in Glacier National Park, there has been fire in Glacier National Park. Because we have this ignition source called lightning. So fire is a part of this ecosystem.

Peri: But while whitebark seedlings grow well in burned areas, fire is a bit of a double edged sword for these trees.

Summer: Whitebark pine don't have as thick of bark as larch.

Peri: Which is a famously fire resistant tree here in Glacier.

Summer: Their survivability of fire is a lot lower. However post fire, the whitebark pine seeds do well in bare mineral soil and a high light environment, especially compared to, you know, other subalpine tree species.

Peri: [in the field] So it seems like, on the one hand, whitebark pine need fire because that's one of the primary places where they regenerate. But on the other hand, it seems like the mature trees are pretty easily killed by fire.

Summer: Yeah, that's definitely true. So it's kind of almost a little bit of a clash, right?

Peri: We kept hiking along this high ridge, which had just burned in the Sprague Fire four years earlier. And we kept an eye out for little whitebark seedlings, less than a foot tall.

Peri: [in the field, with footsteps in the background] There's some before the lookout and some after the lookout.

Summer: Well we could -- [gasps] -- there's one! [whispering]

Peri: [in the field] Oh, it's so cute.

Michael: I like how you whispered, like being loud would scare it away. [everyone laughs]

Summer: [jokingly whispering] Shhh! We have to approach it quietly. Oh yeah.

Peri: [in the field] So how do you think this one's doing?

Summer: It looks great to me. There's no yellowing. It looks vigorous.

[footsteps continue]

Peri: [in the field] Yeah, this one—that other one was just a single stem, with a big poof. And this one has a bunch of different stems coming up.

Summer: Yeah, that one's got some personality, for sure. Yeah.

Michael: A little tree coming up through literal pieces of charcoal.

Summer: Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's a tough life up here. You got to have some serious stamina. It's almost like this juxtaposition of death and new life. Kind of old forest and hopefully new forest. I like whitebark pine. [laughing]

Peri: [in the field] We do too!

Peri: With this bird's eye view from high up on these slopes, I could see in one glance these vulnerable little seedlings, alongside the still-standing burning trees from the fire four years ago, and the footprints from at least half a dozen past fires on the land around us.

Summer: You know, we're coming around to the idea that there's going to be more fire. So more fire means more whitebark pine are going to burn. You know, we can use Waterton as an example of that.

Peri: Our sister park in Canada, Waterton Lakes National Park, saw this firsthand. More than a third of Waterton burned in the 2017 Kenow Fire.

Peri: [in the field] So I talked to Rob and Genoa, who work on whitebark up there, and they said it burned—they said it basically took out a good portion of the work they've done for last 10 or 15 years. That's about half the whitebark pine seedlings, all the limber, and about half their plus trees. In one fire.

Summer: Yeah, it's devastating.

Peri: [in the field] Yeah.

Peri: Waterton has had their own whitebark and limber pine restoration program for decades, in close partnership with Glacier. And to me, the losses in the Kenow Fire kind of symbolize what whitebark is up against, and how climate change can so easily overpower the work that we're doing to combat pine beetles and blister rust. But Summer had a more encouraging perspective.

Summer: You know, it's really just a numbers game. And yes, some of them unfortunately might get burned. Or maybe it'll be a really bad winter, et cetera. But some of them will survive, and then you extend that through time, too, and it kind of becomes like a self-perpetuating legacy.

Peri: [in the field] For future generations.

Summer: Yeah.

Peri: [in the field] Yeah, because we won't see it, but it's a nice legacy to leave behind.

Summer: Yeah, and it'd be great to come up here, you know, when we're retired from the Park Service and, you know, see some of the whitebark pine that were planted still surviving.

Peri: [in the field] Because if we came back in 50 years, I'll be in my eighties.

Michael: Freshly retired.

Peri: [in the field] I'd like to think I could still hike this trail...

Summer: I'd like to think I'd be retired before then, but...

Peri: [in the field] For the best shot of seeing cones.

Summer: Yeah, totally.

Peri: [in the field] Those seedlings that we looked at would be taller than us. Maybe a few cones, little young for cone bearing, 50 years, but plausible.

Summer: Yeah, it'd be great.

Peri: [in the field] We can't save everything, but I hope that we can save whitebark pine. I think we've got a good shot.

Summer: Yeah, me too.

[wistful, hopeful music plays briefly to mark a transition]

Peri: Whitebark restoration faces a lot of barriers, but that doesn't deter our reveg crew, who are hiking nearly a vertical mile up Mount Brown to plant more seedlings this fall. I was not as excited to follow them up there. But it was a crisp, clear fall day and as I gained elevation, I got more and more expansive views. Across Lake McDonald to the North Fork, south toward the Great Bear wilderness and north toward the Highline. It was fall raptor migration too, so golden eagles kept soaring past just 50 or 100 feet overhead. [footsteps crunching on snow] Fresh snow had fallen the day before, coating the mountaintops, and as I reached the crew, it crunched beneath my feet. I felt grateful to be there, and grateful to this crew who were digging in the wet, snowy ground with cold, wet hands and cold, wet feet to get these seedlings in the ground. And they do hikes like this every week to reach whitebark sites, year after year.

Peri: [in the field] That looks like pretty physical work after a gigantic hike up here.

Rebecca: Yeah, it's—this site's not—other than the hike up here, it's fairly accessible. Some that we've done… are crazy.

Peri: At the time of this recording, the park has planted nearly 25,000 whitebark pine seedlings.

Peri: [in the field] So like ballpark, would ten percent of these surviving be good or bad? Would eighty percent be... Is that too much to hope for?

[hopeful music begins playing]

Rebecca: So one of our best plantings, we read the 10 year survival last year and it is still doing really, really well with 89 percent survival.

Peri: [in the field] Wow.

Rebecca: So I think that's—that's above what we normally expect. When you average everything out, we have 48 percent survival for whitebark, so that's pretty good.

Peri: [in the field] 50-50. That's probably better than most tree seeds out in the world.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Peri: [in the field] Oh, another eagle! Wow.

Rebecca: Oh two!

Peri: [in the field] Right overhead! So we're really just doing our best to be human Clark's nutcrackers.

Rebecca: Exactly. [both laughing]

[music ends]

Peri: With all the work that we've learned about that goes into getting these seedlings to this spot, I wanted to know how many hands have touched these little trees, from cone to nursery to planting.

Rebecca: We usually have at least four people, and if it's a tree with a lot of cones, we'll usually ask for some help from some of the other park crews to help us carry out the cones as well. Coeur d'Alene has five permanent staff, at least one packer, to bring them up

Peri: [in the field] Shoutout to the mules, too. [both laugh]

Rebecca: Yeah, exactly. There's a two person monitoring crew

Peri: [in the field] That's pretty cool, so it's like twenty five people, 30 people, at least... Five mules.

Rebecca: Yeah. These are expensive little seedings

Peri: [in the field] A lot goes into those.

Rebecca: Yes. Yeah, they do.

Peri: [in the field] Wow. It's cool to think about.

Rebecca: Yeah, definitely.

Peri: [in the field] Yeah. Feels very hopeful to be planting these up here. Yeah.

Rebecca: I mean, just planting in general is very meditative and I think rejuvenates your soul.

Peri: [in the field] Yeah. Kind of an act of faith.

Rebecca: Yeah, I think it is. Especially when I'm watering them, I'll, you know, wish them well and hope that they survive.

Peri: [in the field] Yeah, maybe a few of these will become big, healthy, happy whitebarks that help reseed the landscape.

Rebecca: Yep.

[slight pause as music continues to play]

Peri: [in the field] It's pretty cool to see this little seedling kind of coming full circle from, you know, where it was harvested from the cones from one of the plus trees, goes to Coeur d'Alene, coming back to the park now. So in a way, it kind of feels like the end of the road for the seedling, at least while it's kind of in our care. But it's also just the beginning. It's, you know, hopefully will grow up to be a big cone-bearing whitebark pine that'll help regenerate the species here.

[music finishes]

Peri: [in the field] Caging the cones, harvesting the cones, germinating the seedlings, planting them back on the landscape, doing all the monitoring work and—this is so much work, and it's pretty amazing that… I guess aside from whether we can save whitebark as a species, [pensive piano music begins to play] it makes me hopeful just… for people? [tearful] It makes me feel really proud to be like, a tiny part of. There's so much destruction that people have wrought, and it's pretty cool to feel like we're doing a little bit to fix it. I don't know, I think it speaks well of all these people as humans that this is what they spend their time doing. I'm really glad we're trying.

[music finishes]

Andrew: Next week on Headwaters, we get our hands dirty.

[digging sounds]

Peri: [in the field] Any suggestions on my technique?

Melissa: You could swing a little a little more aggressively.

Peri: [in the field] Oh, there we go.

Andrew: As we uncover the past, present and future of conservation. That's next time on Headwaters.

[guitar music plays softly under the credits]

Peri: Headwaters is a production of Glacier National Park with support from our partner, the Glacier National Park Conservancy. Glacier is the traditional lands of several Native American tribes, including the Aamsskààpipikani, Kootenai, Séliš, and Qìispé People. Headwaters was created by Daniel Lombardi. Andrew Smith, Peri Sasnett, and Michael Faist produced, edited and hosted the show. Ben Cosgrove wrote and performed our music, and Claire Emery let us use her woodcut piece titled Wind Poem for this season's cover art.

Peri: Special thanks this episode to Bill Hayden, Doug Tyte, Diana Tomback, Bob Keane, Rebecca Lawrence, Summer Kemp-Jennings, Cara Nelson, Rob Sissons, Genoa Alger, Carleton Gritts, Levi Besaw, everyone with Glacier's native plant program, the Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation, and so many others. If you liked this episode, send it to that friend you have who just loves trees.

[music finishes]

Lacy: This is like for the end?

Daniel: This is it. Yeah. You saying that? That's going to be in it.

[Michael laughs]

Lacy: The Glacier Conservancy is the official fundraising partner of Glacier National Park. To learn more, visit glacier.org

Peri: I think that's the best time you've done yet.

Lacy: Okay, do I need to get one more time?

Michael: I think we're good.

Peri: Yeah, I think this is good.

Collecting pinecones, planting seeds, and other acts of hope.

The Glacier Conservancy: https://glacier.org/ Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation: https://whitebarkfound.org/ Pictures of whitebark pine: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWJ2S4F Ben Cosgrove Music: https://www.bencosgrove.com/

See more show notes on our website: https://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/photosmultimedia/headwaters-podcast.htm

Episode 5

Whitebark Pine | Chapter Five

Transcript

Lacy: Headwaters is brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

[upbeat music begins]

Peri: This season, I set out to learn about a tree, I started by meeting Illawye, the Great Great Grandparent Tree. And I learned how ShiNaasha Pete, a CSKT Tribal Forester, views that tree as an ancestor, with knowledge and power to share. I followed Clark's nutcrackers, red squirrels and grizzly bears and saw how everything in this place is tied to everything else. I cored a tree with Professor Diana Six, and she showed me what we have to lose, and how close we are to losing it. And I followed a whitebark pine seed on its journey through the park's restoration program. Witnessing the passion and dedication of the people trying to save this tree.

[Headwaters season two theme begins, somber piano music]

Peri: Now I want to explore how our relationship with nature has changed over time. To understand how we got here and how I might build a deeper relationship with the world around me. [theme plays, and ends]

Peri: Welcome to Headwaters, a podcast made in Glacier National Park, which is the traditional lands of many Native American tribes.

Andrew: That's our host, Peri, and I'm Andrew. This is Chapter Five, the last in the season.

Michael This season is called Whitebark Pine, a whole series about a special tree, but it's also the story of Glacier National Park and how we relate to this landscape, how we protect it and how we fit into the world around us.

Peri: I've grown up with this idea that people are bad for nature, that we are the scissors snipping apart the strands of the ecosystems around us. And then we have to keep people out of nature to protect it. [jaunty music begins] But where does that idea come from?

Michael We have spent all season with whitebark pine on top of mountains. But this story, Peri, takes us to the lowest elevations in the park—to the lakes, rivers, creeks and streams that fill our valley floors, and that make up much of the park's boundary. [music ends]

Michael: So I want to start off asking, are you much of an angler, are you good at fishing?

Peri: The last time I went fishing, I was five with my granddad and an alligator ate my bobber. [Michael laughing] I have not fished since.

Michael: Ok so, so no. And to be honest, me neither. I'm not very good at it, but I think the story of fish and fish management here in Glacier is interesting because it shows how we're always re-examining how much to intervene in natural processes. The park's mission has always been to preserve and protect this place. But how do you actually do that? What is our role here? [water rushing] Let’s start in the very first years of the park over 100 years ago, a scientist named Morton J. Elrod—who would later become a naturalist for the park—started the first aquatic research project here. And as he studied our lakes and streams, he saw a problem: not enough fish.

Peri: Not enough fish?

Michael: Not enough. So he took depth measurements, and samples of possible fish foods, to determine which lakes people could add fish to.

Peri: What?

Michael: Introduce them, to take them from somewhere else and stock them in lakes where they weren't previously found, or to add to an existing population. All with the goal of enhancing recreational or sport fishing opportunities.

Peri: Gotcha.

Michael: When Glacier was founded in 1910, virtually anyone could apply for a fish stocking permit with the U.S. Bureau of Fisheries. If they approved your application, the bureau would provide you with fish and the necessary permission to place them throughout the park.

Peri: So correct me if I'm wrong. But this wasn't unusual at the time, was it?

Michael: No, not at all. Fish stocking, with the intent of improving sport fishing, was extremely common in mountain lakes across the West. Stocked by state and local governments, individuals, even environmental groups like the Sierra Club. And Glacier, too, was fully on board with the practice. The park cooperatively managed the Glacier National Park Fish Hatchery with the Fish and Wildlife Service, which raised in captivity all the native and non-native species that would be introduced to park waters.

Peri: But doesn't this clash a bit with the whole preserve our national parks unimpaired idea?

Michael: Well, they didn't think so. [pensive piano music begins] Our mission, the NPS mission, is to preserve and protect these places for future generations to enjoy. So the park wanted to make sure that if you came here hoping to catch a fish, you would! The thought was the more fish you and your kids hook while you're here, the more you'll enjoy and appreciate the park. And it's worth noting that this is the same time that the park was poisoning coyotes to ensure that the wildlife people like to see, like deer, would survive. So we were protecting the things about this place that people liked and that they could easily see on their visit.

Peri: Ok, I guess I see the logic in that. But couldn't I use that same logic to build a roller coaster at Logan past?

Michael: Hmm.

Peri: How does this all tie back to Whitebark Pine? Are you saying that planting nursery raised whitebark seedlings is the same as stocking hatchery raised fish?

Michael: Well, no. For one thing, whitebark pine is a native species that we're careful to only plant in areas that we know they used to grow, using seeds that come from this ecosystem. There was nothing at all careful about our fish stocking program. [Peri laughs] Native species, non-native species. It didn't matter. They put them all over the place, often into places that never had any trout at all. So by 1945, nearly 50 million fish had been introduced here, averaging more than a million fish a year every year since the park was founded. [music ends]

Peri: Wow.

Michael: This was massive in both scale and ambition, attempting to bend our fisheries to our will.

Peri: Well, we don't do that anymore. So what changed people's minds?

Michael: Well, the first reason people began to question this practice, was that from a sport fishery perspective, it wasn't really working.

Peri: Which was the whole reason they were doing it in the first place, right?

Michael: Yeah. Despite introducing millions of fish here, they had not created the recreational fishing utopia that they'd long dreamt of. But on top of that, there was a growing understanding that stocking was a harmful practice to native species, and that losing native fish could have negative consequences that extend far beyond our waterways. [water rushing] Glacier has 21 native fish species, and few are better known than the bull trout. Bull trout are listed under the Endangered Species Act as threatened—one step below endangered—because they've declined so dramatically over the past 100 years. In Glacier, the practice of stocking non-native fish is one of their biggest threats. Lake trout were stocked outside Glacier in Flathead Lake, and despite never being introduced directly into the park, they migrated here and have become bull trout’s enemy number one. They are bigger, the largest member of the salmonid family, and reliably out-compete bull trout for food and for space.

Peri: That kind of sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Michael: Yeah. And in the 1970s, the park began to realize that an iconic Montana fish, and an important link in our ecosystem, could disappear. So it prompted a bit of an identity crisis.

Peri: It sounds like we had to decide exactly what we're protecting here, native species or just things people enjoy.

Michael: Exactly. And the park decided that our sport fisheries, while important, couldn't take priority over our native biodiversity, let alone harm it. And in 1972, Glacier ended its fish stocking program, adopting a do no harm approach to our fisheries.

Peri: But they were stocking fish in the park for, what 60 years? Wasn't the damage kind of already done?

Michael: Yeah.

Peri: Cat out of the bag, the fish out of the net?

Michael: [laughing] Oh gosh. [somber piano music begins]

Michael: Well, biologists recognized at the time that these impacts from fish stocking would be hard to undo, and things continued to get worse for bull trout. By the 21st century, lake trout had found their way into well over half of the lakes were bull trout are found, which in the park, is only 17 to begin with. Nearly 40 years after ending the fish stocking program, it became clear that do no harm wasn't going to cut it if we wanted to preserve bull trout. So in yet another reexamination of our mission, the park decided that preserving this place required undoing the harm of our predecessors.

Peri: How do we go about doing that?

Michael: Well, just like whitebark pine, the effort to restore native fisheries goes way beyond Glacier's boundaries. Down in Yellowstone, in Flathead Lake, lots of other places, biologists are undertaking a years-long project to physically remove lake trout from waters where they threaten native species. Around here, Quartz Lake is kind of the prime example. Every year, with funding from the Glacier National Park Conservancy, the fisheries crew heads up to Quartz Lake in the North Fork, hops on a boat and lowers gill nets into the lake. If they catch a bull trout, they let it go. But if they catch a lake trout, they kill it.

Peri: And it seems like it's working.

Michael: It has been. While in Quartz lake they haven't removed Lake Trout entirely, they have successfully suppressed their numbers, which has allowed bull trout populations to stay steady, where before they started this, they were collapsing. But to me, perhaps the most interesting technique to restore bull trout is taking fish from one place and adding them to places where they weren't found before.

Peri: We're fish stocking again?

Michael: Well, almost? Glacier and the USGS have worked together to conduct what's called conservation introductions, so kind of stocking by another name. Conservation introductions take the same premise, moving fish to a new place, but instead of enhancing a sport fishery, the goal is to create a safe haven for a threatened native species.

[uplifting music begins]

Michael: The NPS even made a video about these efforts this year, following a crew monitoring one of these introductions.

NPS Video: [birds chirping] We are headed up to Grace Lake, which is upstream of logging lake, protected by a barrier falls to sample some bull trout that were introduced in 2014 as part of a conservation introduction.

Michael: There's a natural barrier, a waterfall between Grace and Logging lakes, so they know the bull trout they introduced there won't have to compete with lake trout.

NPS Video: [music continues] We’ve seen nothing but benefits from this project. To see big fish that we're seeing in different age classes that we're seeing, that we know we put here and that are doing really well. And it feels good knowing that we're doing good.

Michael: And this is important because like whitebark pine, bull trout are threatened by more than just invasive species. They are also faced with climate change.

Peri: Of course.

Michael: Bull trout require cold water, but climate change is altering our watersheds, and our lakes and streams are slowly warming up. This isn't great for bull trout, and we know that if they have any chance of adapting to these changes, it's in a place where they're not also fighting with lake trout to survive. Because I get so excited about this stuff, I was invited even to be a part of this NPS video.

Michael, on the NPS Video: The goal of this is to provide a refugia. Knowing the threats that these species face: warming waters, decreasing runoff or changes to our peak runoff times. The lakes that were selected to place these fish, they were deliberately chosen, carefully chosen for where they sit, what influences them and the risks posed by non-native species.

Peri: Look at you, your film debut.

Michael: Yeah, I mean, I wish I'd trimmed my beard a little bit, but—I think the big takeaway for me from the story of bull trout and what connects this to the rest of our series is that it is a story of us deciding what the National Park Service is really here to do. We have always had the mission of preserving and protecting this place for future generations, but how we interpret it has changed over time. That used to mean introducing millions of fish so that anglers who visit Glacier would leave happy, and it meant focusing on recreation. But today that means saving a native species like bull trout, even whitebark pine, and undoing the harm we have done in the past. Fighting to save entire ecosystems at risk.

Peri: So the park isn't working from a list of rules set in stone. It's actively deciding what it means to protect these million acres.

Michael: Exactly.

[pensive music begins]

Peri: I guess in one way, this story seems like a lesson about how messy it can get when we meddle in the ecosystems around us and how much work it takes to undo that. So it's easy to see where I got this idea that people are bad for nature. When we started interfering with the fisheries here and introducing new kinds of fish, things went totally awry. This story about fish looks at the past and how we got to where we are today, but what's next? Where might the future lead?

[music ends]

Andrew: There are about half a dozen species native to Glacier National Park, including bull trout, that are currently listed under the Endangered Species Act or ESA. Lynx, grizzly bears and meltwater stoneflies are other examples,

Peri: And whitebark could possibly join that list.

Andrew: Now, every species listed under the ESA gets a recovery plan, and the goal of every recovery plan is the same: save the species from extinction. But how you actually go about doing that can vary wildly depending on the species. By looking to other restoration efforts, I hoped I could better understand what the future has in store for whitebark pine, and for conservation more broadly.

Ben: My name is Ben Novak.

Andrew: Ben is the lead scientist for a conservation nonprofit called Revive and Restore, and I called to ask him about ferrets.

[somber music begins]

Ben: She was 21 days old. She only even opened up her eyes. Yeah, that's really the only time where you can hold them without them tearing your flesh off. Because they're small, but they're ferocious little predators,

Andrew: Not just any ferrets. Black-footed ferrets.

[black-footed ferret chattering]

Andrew: Up to two feet long with black feet and a cream-colored body, they look somewhat similar to domestic ferrets that people might have as pets. But the Black-footed Ferret is the only one actually native to North America.

Ben: Which lived on the Great Plains from North Dakota, Kansas and those areas out west to the foothills of the Rockies, including the Blackfeet Nation, right next door in Glacier National Park.

Andrew: And they're specialized predators of prairie dogs, who make up 90 percent of their diet.

Ben: They preyed on prairie dogs, they were ubiquitous across the Great Plains.

Andrew: But in the middle of the century, things started to change for the black-footed ferret.

Ben: By the 1950s, due to agricultural land conversion, predator control and a government campaign to eradicate prairie dogs, had dwindled to virtually nothing, and it was thought they were extinct.

Andrew: In 1964, there was a small glimmer of hope when a population was discovered in South Dakota, and they even made the first endangered species list in 1967. But none of these individuals that were discovered ultimately survived.

Peri: Why not?

Andrew: Well, just like with whitebark pine, Black-footed ferrets are faced with a non-native disease called sylvatic plague, on top of all this external pressure like habitat loss. Scientists even tried to take a few into captivity and raise them there, but it just didn't work.

Ben: And so the world thought again, that was it. No more black footed ferrets.

Andrew: But in 1981, a Wyoming game and fish biologist got a call that a ranch dog named Shep had found one.

Ben: And fish and game biologist got out to the area near Meeteetse, Wyoming. And over the course of several months found about 100 Black-footed ferrets, 100 of an animal that was supposedly extinct. And that really was the final stand for black footed ferrets, that was the last population in the world.

Peri: All thanks to Shep.

Andrew: This time, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was ready. They founded the National Black-footed Ferret Conservation Center, and started a captive breeding program in 1987 that has been wildly successful.

Ben: They have bred, since '87, over ten thousand, five hundred Black-footed ferrets, over the course of thirty generations. And they have reintroduced nearly 5000 into the wild.

Andrew: Today, if you visit Badlands or Wind Cave National Parks in South Dakota—and if you happen to be nocturnal while you're there—you can see these ferrets for yourself. These reintroductions have established new black-footed ferret colonies across the Great Plains, in the U.S., Canada, Mexico and across many tribal nations as well. The captive breeding program got its start with just 18 ferrets, of which only 16 successfully reproduced. And when you trace back the heritage of those 16 ferrets, looking at their family trees, they're all descendants of just seven individuals.

Peri: Wait, wait. But Ben said that today in total, they've bred over ten thousand Black-footed ferrets, and they all traced back to just those seven ancestors?

Andrew: Just seven. Which means that even if the species can overcome the threats of the sylvatic plague and habitat loss, they've got a very limited gene pool.

Ben: If we can overcome plague, this species has absolutely every reason to recover in the wild. But it has that tiny gene pool and that could become something very difficult long term as this species starts adapting to changes in its environment.

[somber music begins]

Andrew: Normally, this is where you bring in members of an outside population to try to introduce new genetic diversity. But these ferrets are the last of their kind anywhere on the planet, which is where Ben and his colleagues at Revive and Restore came in.

Ben: Well with Black-footed ferrets, they're all descended from just seven individuals, there's no other naturally occurring population, there's nowhere to go but back to the past to try and get some, some new blood into this population.

Andrew: The answer to increasing genetic diversity wasn't to introduce a new ferret. It was to reintroduce an old one. In the 1980s when they found the world's last ferrets in Wyoming, they did everything they could think of to protect and preserve the species. That meant starting the captive breeding program to keep the species alive. But it also meant taking tissue samples, just some skin cells, and sending them off to a lab, as a sort of genetic record of the time. One of those tissue samples came from a ferret named Willa. Willa died over 30 years ago. She has no living descendants today, and is 20 generations removed from our modern ferrets. So think about if you went back and met your 20th great-grandparent, which for humans means going back about 500 years. You probably wouldn't have that much in common with that person. And genetically, the two of you would share less than one percent of your DNA, which means that Willa's genes could introduce new and valuable diversity into the existing population, making the entire species more resilient in the face of disease and climate change.

Peri: OK, but how? She's been dead for 30 years.

Andrew: In the form of a ferret named Elizabeth Ann.

[serious music begins]

Ben: Elizabeth Ann has 10 times as many unique, diverse alleles as any other living Black-footed Ferret. So she is, she's incredibly valuable.

Andrew: Using DNA from her now 30 year old skin cell sample, Ben and other scientists working with Fish and Wildlife, created a clone of Willa—born to a surrogate mother—who they named Elizabeth Ann. And Ben even got to hold her.

Ben: You know, as a scientist, it's just a geek out moment to think this is a living, breathing animal that was not created by sperm and egg cells. She was created by, from SKIN! From 33 years ago. Like, I was a year old when Willa's cells were frozen at the frozen zoo. And now I'm holding this baby made from them.

Andrew: Elizabeth Ann is the first ever clone of a United States endangered mammal.

Peri: Wow. I guess I had never even thought that was a possibility.

Andrew: Yeah, it's a new frontier in the field of conservation genetics, and Elizabeth Ann is a breakthrough. But she's also an animal. She's an adorable, ferocious little scientific achievement. The agency tasked with upholding the Endangered Species Act is the Fish and Wildlife Service, and Elizabeth Ann was their idea. They reached out to Ben and his team at Revive and Restore, along with other partner organizations, and started a process that ultimately took seven years. They went through all the steps required for any environmental project—getting a permit, going through a public review period—and ultimately it worked.

Ben: And the Black-footed Ferret was the first real click where people were like: Oh. This isn't just cloning to clone and see if it can, you can do it. [pensive music begins] You know, this animal was cloned for a very specific purpose, and it's going to help this species. And it was it just really connected dots for people and people.

Andrew: And Ben believes that this breakthrough, this use of biotechnology, could help not only the conservation of endangered species, but maybe even the revival of extinct ones. Which raises the question Where does our duty as conservationists end? What tools can, or should we use to help preserve threatened species?

Peri: The ferret story illustrates what makes this whitebark problem so difficult. Twenty generations of black footed ferrets is thirty years. Twenty generations for humans is five hundred. And twenty generations of whitebark pine is 1200 years. We're trying to save a species that operates on an entirely different timescale than us.

Andrew: Right, this is still a very new field. We talked in the last episode about how a simple genetic test might help us identify blister rust resistant trees.

Peri: Right? And that seems straightforward enough.

Andrew: But conservation genetics is a fast growing field, and the possibilities are both promising and provocative. Biotechnology could revolutionize our efforts to restore whitebark pine, or it could create new problems.

Peri: Well, so what do we do? [pensive music begins] How do we proceed given all this uncertainty?

Andrew: Experts say we should proceed cautiously.

Peri: Yeah, I mean, we still don't know everything, and it will take generations to understand our impacts.

Andrew: We wouldn't have to save bull trout, black-footed ferrets or even whitebark pine if our interference hadn't put them in jeopardy in the first place.

Peri: So when we choose to intervene, that means balancing these uncertainties, knowing we can't completely understand how far reaching our actions might be, but also recognizing that if we don't do anything, these species will probably disappear. As an indecisive person to begin with. These choices can feel paralyzing. Either path seems fraught, and it's easy to default to what seems like the safest option. Just letting nature take its course.

[music ends]

Rosalyn: So as a young child, we would have to climb down a cliff to, like, look for a particular plant. The adults would be like, just go down there and get that, you know, [laughing] we would be expected to like, Oh, OK.

Peri: People have been here for thousands of years, before this was a national park, which is why I called Roslyn. [upbeat music begins]

Rosalyn: My name is Rosalyn Lapier, and I'm an associate professor at the University of Montana in environmental studies. I'm also a traditionally trained ethnobotanist. I'm Blackfeet on my mother's side and metis on my father's side.

Peri: Talking with her offered a glimpse of what it would be like to have a connection with a place that stretches back for a thousand generations.

Rosalyn: When we think about traditional ecological knowledge, this is women's knowledge.

Peri: Like Rosalyn is today. Her grandmother was also a teacher, and a keeper of ethnobotanical knowledge.

Rosalyn: My grandmother's name is Annie Mad Plume. Because she was raised by these two other grandmothers, she was very knowledgeable about plants and the traditional ecological knowledge of the Blackfeet.

Peri: Rosalyn was taught practical and cultural uses of native plants.

Rosalyn: So one particular plant, sometimes called saskatoon berries, sometimes called june berries, sometimes called serviceberry. That particular plant has lots of uses. It is used as a tool. Historically, people used it for making bows and arrows out of, making different types of household products, you can use the bark as medicine, you can use, um the berries for food, and it's used in religion and religious practice.

Peri: But on top of learning ways to use these plants, she also learned how to use this ecological knowledge to shape the world around her.

Rosalyn: The Blackfeet didn't rely on it just in the natural world. So one of the things they did do with this particular plant is they cultivated it, right? They moved it. They would transplant it, [chuckles] if they knew that they were traveling to a certain place every single year, they would either cultivate the area so that it grew in abundance or they would transplant it, move it there.

[upbeat music begins]

Peri: The idea that indigenous people lived in harmony with nature, just foraging as they went, treading lightly, changing nothing, is a persistent myth.

Rosalyn: You know, the Blackfeet didn't think they needed to “adapt to the world". They changed the world, all the time. They changed nature.

Peri: So you could say the field of study that we know today as conservation actually began millennia ago with the traditional ecological knowledge of indigenous communities like the Blackfeet.

Rosalyn: So the common definition of traditional ecological knowledge is that it includes three things: knowledge, practice, and belief. So knowledge is just understanding, you know, the natural world. And that knowledge usually comes from observation. Practice, then, is how you use that knowledge. Right? How you hunt in a certain way. But then also, practice includes things like cultivation, right? And management, land management. And then the third part of traditional ecological knowledge is belief. Is the cosmology of that particular indigenous group, and how they understand the natural world is connected to the supernatural realm. [swelling music begins] Scholars are increasingly beginning to understand that there's not really any place within historic Blackfeet territory that was not utilized somehow, that was not managed and or that was not cultivated. And so when Americans use the word Wilderness, to describe certain areas as, you know, kind of untrammeled by man, is definitely not true. It's a cultivated space, and it's been cultivated for thousands of years.

Peri: People have been managing this land for millennia, having an impact and shaping the world around them. So just leaving things alone isn't necessarily a more natural course of action. You might even call it a major departure. We've always had a relationship with the natural world, and we always will. So the question is what kind of relationship will that be? [music ends]

Melissa: [ski lift humming] We are at whitefish mountain resort, going up the gondola.

Peri: I started this journey outside the park, visiting Illawye the Great Great Grandparent Tree, and I'm ending it outside the park too. [uplifting music begins] Trees don't really recognize park borders, and this restoration effort is a hugely collaborative project.

Melissa: [lift humming continues] Going up to 6800 feet. Whitebark pine in this area typically starts around...

Peri: And I'm joined by Melissa Jenkins.

Melissa: My name is Melissa Jenkins

Peri: Who's a bit of a legend in the world of Whitebark Pine. Some even call her the Lorax of Whitebark. Melissa supposedly retired from the Forest Service last year, but apparently she's finding it tough to leave whitebark behind.

Peri: [in the field] And what are you doing now?

Melissa: Working too much. [Peri and Melissa laugh]

All: [laughs].

Peri: We're at the resort today for a very fitting capstone to our season. A collaborative, interagency restoration project. The Forest Service is planting trees here in partnership with the resort, which put in years of work to be certified as the first whitebark pine friendly ski area in the country.

Karl: In the truck, we're going to be showing all that to the top over here. That little knob over there where the towers are at, when we get to the site, that's what you'll need your hard hats and such.

Peri: It didn't fit on the gondola, but they're bringing a grill up to the top to make food for everyone, and it feels like a celebration. And Melissa is the perfect person to be here with, since she knows everyone and seems to know everything. She's leading the effort to put together our local piece of the whitebark pine restoration plan, and her enthusiasm is contagious.

Melissa: There are so many amazing, amazing whitebark [upbeat music begins] that are huge, and you can tell, you know, they're like stalwart soldiers standing against the elements. And and they're big and they're gnarly, and those are really big old trees are my favorite. But then the young trees are hope for the future too, so.

Peri: It took people like Melissa to convince me that whitebark pine could be a hopeful story, and I asked her if she'd always felt this way.

Melissa: [wind blowing] There was a point where I would have said there's a good possibility that whitebark won't be able to survive far into the future.

[music ends]

Peri: But she said that started to change when the trees and their nursery successfully produced baby pine cones.

Melissa: That was almost a 20-year process, just to get to that point. And that little conelet, to me, represented all that work that had come before, and all of the people and the dedication and the effort that they had put in to getting to that point. And I cried a little.

Peri: The plan for today is to plant 400 little seedlings, which have come from the nursery in Idaho. Everyone grabs a couple dozen seedlings and a tool and spreads out to get to work.

Melissa: [scraping in the dirt] I’m thinking we'll go ahead and try and plant it here.

Peri: And after watching Melissa plant a few trees, Michael and Andrew announced that I was going to plant the next one.

Andrew: So Peri, what do you what do you see about this site? Why are you picking it?

[upbeat music playing]

Peri: [in the field] So there's plenty of sun here.

Peri: The first step is to scrape the vegetation clear from a small site.

Peri: [in the field] I've never done this before. [scraping sound continues] This is not as easy as Melissa made it look. Any suggestions on my technique?

Melissa: [chuckling] You could swing a little a little more aggressively. Looking, looking good.

Peri: [in the field] Good. Not great.

Melissa: It's it's looking fantastic.

Peri: [in the field] It's very generous of you.

Melissa: OK, now I'm going to step to one side.

Peri: Now that I had my site prepared, I was ready to plant my seedling.

Melissa: You want to plant it right back up to the same level of the soil on the plug.

Peri: [in the field] So what do we think?

Melissa: I think it's beautiful. I think you did a great job.

Peri: [in the field] Thank you. My very first whitebark seedling. Can you take a picture me of me with it?

Peri: Being involved with a project like this that's generations long, it definitely makes me think on a bigger time scale. Several hundred years from now, when everything I know is long gone, that tree that I planted could still be here, with nutcrackers cawing in its branches. Aldo Leopold, the famous conservationist, once wrote "Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets, but humbler folk may circumvent this restriction if they know how. To plant a pine, for example, one need be neither God nor poet. One need only own a shovel."

Michael: Does it feel like you're leaving this behind? It doesn't really seem like you have actually retired yet, but retiring from being one of like, the leading people in the field?

Melissa: [birds chirping] Well, that's part of the reason that I'm leading this effort to do the restoration plan for the crown of the continent ecosystem, because it's going to set up the people that are coming in after me for success. And I can feel confident that when I leave, they have a clear path forward with what needs to be done to restore the species, and they won't need me. [pensive music begins] That’s the best thing you can give to the people who come after you in your work is the fact that they don't need you anymore.

Melissa: [birds continue chirping] There’s a, Nelson Henderson has a, I have a quote from him on my desk that says “the true meaning of life is to plant trees under whose shade you do not plan to sit.

Peri: [in the field] This kind of this whole project of like, we won't really see this. Like, how does that feel to know that? None. I mean, none of us will see the fruits of these labors, really.

Melissa: I can picture it, though. I can picture what they're going to look like. [birds continue chirping]

Peri: If Melissa says she can picture it. So can I.

Melissa: Yeah. These trees are these trees are going to be just fine. We hope so. Yeah.

[music ends]

Peri: [upbeat music begins] Headwaters is a production of Glacier National Park with support from our partner, the Glacier National Park Conservancy. Glacier is the traditional lands of several Native American tribes, including the Aamsskáápipikani, Kootenai, Séliš, and Ql̓ispé people. Headwaters was created by Daniel Lombardi. Andrew Smith, Peri Sasnett and Michael Faist produced, edited and hosted the show. Ben Cosgrove wrote and performed our music, and Claire Emery let us use her woodcut piece titled Wind Poem for this season's cover art. Special thanks this episode to Bill Hayden, Rosalyn Lapier, Ben Novak, Melissa Jenkins, Karl Anderson, Dawn LaFleur, everyone with Glacier's native plant program, the Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation, and so many others. If you enjoyed the show, share it with the person you'd most like to bring with you on your visit to Glacier.

Lacy: This is like for the end?

Daniel: This is in it, yeah. You saying that, that's going to be in it.

Michael: [laughs]

Lacy: The Glacier Conservancy is the official fundraising partner of Glacier National Park. To learn more, visit glacier.org.

Peri: I think that's the best one you've done yet.

Lacy: OK. Do I need to get one more time?

Michael: I think we're good.

Peri: Yeah, I think that's good.

Trees, fish, and ferrets—what is our relationship with nature?

The Glacier Conservancy: https://glacier.org/ Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation: https://whitebarkfound.org/ Revive and Restore: https://reviverestore.org/ Pictures of whitebark pine: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWJ2S4F Ben Cosgrove Music: https://www.bencosgrove.com/

See more show notes on our website: https://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/photosmultimedia/headwaters-podcast.htm

Season 1

Season 1 Trailer

Confluence | Trailer

Transcript

TRAILER TRANSCRIPT ANDREW: When you picture Glacier National Park, what comes to mind?

SARAH: Standing in a forest and there's birds chirping.

NATE: Big craggy peaks is what I see.

MICHAEL: Now known as Glacier National Park, this corner of Montana is renowned for its rich cultural history, charismatic wild animals, and scenic beauty, a place of peace and serenity on the surface anyway. The reality... Well, that's a bit more complicated.

ANDREW: I'm Andrew Smith.

MICHAEL: And I'm Michael Faist, and we're both rangers here in Glacier National Park.

ANDREW: We're going to tell you the story of a paradoxical place, a landscape at odds with itself, where all sorts of forces, large and small converge in interesting and unexpected ways.

LISA: Well, our glaciers are going. They're on a track to disappear now.

BILL: It's just one dangerous, damn hard thing that we were involved in.

BOB: Crazy. We could have died using this, but we had a shaved off wooden baseball bat and we'd shout at the bear and run up and whack it in the butt.

MICHAEL: Brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy, this is Headwaters--a seven part podcast exploring the characters and contradictions that shape the park.

ANDREW: Join us as we travel to Glacier's busiest and most remote destinations to see what happens at the confluence of an international border,

MICHAEL: rivers of ice,

ANDREW: grizzly bears,

MICHAEL: more than 10,000 years of human history,

ANDREW: wildfire,

MICHAEL: and pit toilets.

ANDREW: Really pit toilets?

MICHAEL: Even pit toilets.

ANDREW: The result is something creative, destructive, maybe even magical. It's Glacier National Park.

Glacier National Park has always been a confluence of conflicting and competing forces that come together in unexpected ways.

Episode 1

Confluence | Two Medicine

Transcript

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

COOKIES INTRODUCTION

Michael: This is Michael. [music starts] I am currently in my kitchen in West Glacier, because while I am not the most accomplished baker, I learned an interesting cookie recipe that I wanted to make for Andrew before recording tomorrow.

Michael: [kitchen] I don't know how much I need to add, but let's start with that.

Michael: Again, not the best baker, so I hope they turn out all right. But we'll see.

Michael: [kitchen] Into the oven they go [tray sliding into oven, timers going off]. Well, I think that's as good as I could have hoped for. I hope he likes them!

Michael: Hey Andrew, before we started out today, I have a surprise.

Andrew: Oh? Yeah, what is it?

Michael: Well, I made some cookies last night and I was wondering if you'd want to try some.

Andrew: Oh, for sure! Yeah. Hand me one of those.

Michael: Here you go.

Andrew: Oh, is that huckleberry?

Michael: I had some frozen huckleberries leftover that I put on the top. What do you think?

Andrew: [stammering with mouthful, both laughing]. They're pretty good! Not as sweet as I was expecting, but a really nice, fresh flavor to them. What's the occasion?

Michael: While these cookies are simple to make and tasty, what interests me the most is that they're made using only ingredients indigenous to North and Central America.

Andrew: Oh really? That's, that's pretty cool.

Michael: Huckleberries, for instance, are native here. And as you know, have been eaten and used by people for thousands of years.

Andrew: Yeah. Lots of people too, Glacier National Park like America as a whole is a place where a ton of different cultures have converged.

Michael: In each episode, you'll hear us acknowledge some of those cultures, the ǔmssk̇ǎaṗiiṗiik̇ǔni, Kootenai, Selis, and Qlispe people.

Andrew: Because while Glacier National Park has only been around since 1910, this area has long been and continues to be the traditional territory of these and other Tribes.

Michael: On the east side of the park, the Blackfeet Reservation is home to the ǔmssk̇ǎaṗiiṗiik̇ǔni South Piegan. Also known as the Blackfeet.

Andrew: On the west side of the park, the Flathead Reservation is managed by a Confederation of Tribes, the Kootenai, Selis, and Qlispe or Pend d’Oreille people.

Michael: And these Tribes aren't monolithic—like any other culture, they are diverse. And reservation boundaries fail to define the extent of their people today, or their place in a vibrant Indigenous community that stretches far beyond Montana.

Andrew: To date, throughout the United States, there are 637 federally and state recognized Tribes. Odds are, wherever you are right now is the traditional territory of one or probably several Indigenous groups. Yellowstone National Park, for example, has 26 associated Tribes.

Michael: And whether here or at home, learning about the people who came before you—whose connection to a place reaches beyond scholarly definitions of history itself—that could strengthen your understanding and appreciation of wherever you are.

Andrew: That's especially true here at Glacier. A place still visited and used by Native communities today.

Michael: But my question is what is the best way to start learning about another culture?

Andrew: Uhh. Let me think...

Michael: I'll give you a hint. It's not reading.

Andrew: Okay. Um...

Michael: [whispering] What did I bring in today?

Andrew: Cookies?

Michael: Yeah, well food.

Andrew: Okay. I like where you're heading.

Michael: So take as many of these cookies as you like.

Andrew: Don't mind if I do,

Michael: Because on my journey to learn this simple recipe, I learned a lot, lot more.

Michael: Welcome to Headwaters - a Glacier National Park Podcast. Brought to you by the Glacier National Park Conservancy, and produced on the traditional lands of many Native American Tribes, including the Blackfeet, Kootenai, Selis and Qlispe people.

Andrew: We’re calling this season: The Confluence, as we look at the ways that nature, culture, the present and the past all come together here.

Michael: I’m Michael.

Andrew: I’m Andrew.

Michael: And we’re both rangers here. We had the chance to cover loads of different topics in this season of the show.

Andrew: And throughout it all, we’ve tried to seek out Tribal perspectives on concepts like wildland fire, the night sky, climate change—

Michael: But in this episode, we met with Tribal members directly to learn more about their cultures. How they shaped the place as we know it now, and how it shaped them.

NATIVE FOODS AND CULTURE

Michael: To kick off this episode, I drove to Two Medicine, the southeast region of the park,

Michael: [in the car] Welcome to the Blackfeet Nation,

Michael: Which means driving through the Blackfeet Reservation who shares our eastern boundary. There are some opportunities for recreation on the reservation, including a section of the continental divide trail, but you'll need to grab a recreation permit from the Tribe first. If you're going to the park though, you'll pass through the gateway community of East Glacier.

Michael: [in the car] Here we are in East Glacier, head straight to make it to Browning or turn left, to get to Glacier National Park.

Michael: That left-hand turn takes you under the train tracks at the East Glacier train station. One of the first places early tourists, disembarked from.

Michael: [in the car] My favorite part—driving under the train tracks.

Michael: And a short drive later, you'll find yourself in Two Medicine.

Michael: [in the car] Man. The view never gets old.

Michael: When I got there, just past the entrance station, I stopped at the first real destination on the drive in: The Running Eagle Falls Trailhead.

Michael: [outside] ...alright, as you hike around this trail, you see the option to go to Running Eagle Falls itself or along a nature trail.

Michael: But before we go any farther, have you hiked the Running Eagle Falls Nature Trail?

Andrew: I've definitely been out to the waterfall. I don't know if I've walked the whole loop there. Why?

Michael: Well it's a short hike, just under a mile, and it's one of the few wheelchair accessible trails in the park. Now the waterfall view is stunning, but on the rest of the trail, you'll find illustrated signs that teach you how to identify native plants.

Michael: [outside] Black cottonwood can be recognized by the deep, rough, furrowed, gray bark on mature trees...

Michael: And they also teach you their traditional names and uses.

Michael: [outside] the wood is said to be ideal for TP fires, because it does not crackle and produces clean smoke. Huh?

Michael: I have one of them here. I just sent to you for thimbleberry, if you want to look at it.

Andrew: Sure. Okay. Oh, wow. This is a nice watercolor illustration here at thimbleberries one of the best berries in the park. I agree. I'm like a raspberry. Um, okay. This must be the Blackfeet name then, otohtoksinii.

Michael: Yeah. So there are seven different signs on that trail, all teaching you something about different native plants and foods. And, I said at the beginning, that food is the best way to start learning about other cultures. And I stand by that. I mean, we all need to eat. So you immediately have something in common with folks you may have never met before. You're pretty well-traveled. Do you agree with that take?

Andrew: Definitely. Yeah. You learn so much from, you know, having some yakitori in the stall of a Tokyo market, or sharing some fresh mango on the banks of the Mekong, it's—in many cases, it can be hard to know where to begin otherwise.

Michael: Yes, precisely, which is doubly true of the Tribes in and around Glacier, who have been here for a long time.

Darnell: [Speaking in Blackfeet] What I just said is: "hello, my name is lone camper and I am from the South Piegan. You know, it as Blackfeet, but we call ourselves the ǔmssk̇ǎaṗiiṗiik̇ǔni.

Michael: I met with a Blackfeet Tribal member whose English name is Darnell Rides At The Door, who told me about the history of the Blackfeet in this area.

Darnell: Well, we've been here since time immemorial. We have always been here is what we say as the niitsitapiiysinni, the real people, and creator gave us this, this area to take care of. And, um, we are very unique because we are as the Blackfeet, the Blackfoot Confederacy, we're the only inhabitants that are in the original territory that creator gave us.

Michael: Now Two Medicine where I went was an area primarily used by the Blackfeet, much like the rest of the east side of the park. But there are a lot of Tribes associated with the land that is today Glacier.

Andrew: Yeah. The Kootenai, for example, predominantly used to the area on the west side of the park. I've had the chance to learn some of their stories about Lake McDonald.

Michael: That's right. And a lot of these stories were shared with the public and the park by Tribal members like Vernon Finley.

Vernon: Uh, my name is Vernon Finley. I am a member of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes that are on the Flathead Reservation, just, uh, south of, uh, Flathead Lake, which is south of Glacier Park. There are two Culture Committees on the Reservation and I'm the Department Head for the Kootenai Culture Committee.

Michael: I had the chance to sit down and talk with Vernon about the Kootenai. And as with the Blackfeet, they've been here for a long time—longer than you could really wrap your head around, which Vernon described using the Kootenai language as an example.

Vernon: However, the Kootenai language is a language isolate. Which means, according to linguists, they haven't been able to link it with any of the families of languages that are around. It's a family of its own. For as long as languages have been spoken, the Kootenais have only been here. The Selis, you can link them with other Tribes out to the coast and up the coast. You can link for Dene further South. You can link all the other languages everywhere else. The Kootenai has only always been right here.

Michael: And you needn't look far to see imprints of this ancient history. Features throughout the park bear the names that Tribes gave them thousands of years ago,

Darnell: Place names can give you, um, markers, land markers, but it also tells you what our people did at a certain time.

Michael: But not all of them.

Darnell: In the geographical documentation, they changed the names of a lot, a lot, especially the mountains got English names, but we already had had a name for them.

Michael: And as Darnell mentioned, many names in the Blackfeet and Kootenai languages were more than mere titles, but often served as instructions of sorts.

Darnell: You knew which one was the pass to go onto the other side of the mountain. You knew which one that was and how it was named in your language. If you didn't know where you were, you didn't know where you were going.

Michael: Knowing where you were going. There's a tremendous importance to the Tribes in this area because, they might've used the land in Glacier, but they would travel far beyond its boundaries.

Darnell: We were good at it. Very good at it. Because you had to know, we had a runners that would go out in this territory, which ranged all the way from way up on the North Saskatchewan River to the Yellowstone. That's a lot of territory.

Vernon: The Kootenais were aware, well aware of the existence of the world. There's coyote stories that describe going across the ocean, and the lands on the other side. An awareness of the entire world was there.

Michael: The Kootenai, Blackfeet, Selis and Qlispe, or Pend d'Oreille people all traveled far and wide throughout the course of the year.

Andrew: Their routes through Glacier in many cases became the routes that roads and trails follow in the park today.

Michael: But wherever they went, these Tribes had access to similar foods, foods like some of the plants on the signs at the Running Eagle Falls Nature Trail. But I didn't drive to Two Medicine just to read signs. I mean, as we're doing now, I could have just looked them up on the computer. I went to Two Medicine to meet with Mariah Gladstone.

Mariah: My name is Mariah Gladstone, and I am a descendant of the Blackfeet Nation. I am the founder and operator of Indigikitchen, which is an online teaching tool dedicated to re-sharing information about Indigenous diets.

Michael: Indigikitchen is essentially like an Indigenous food network, teaching people how to cook using Native foods.

Andrew: Oh, that's such a cool idea!

Michael: It is! I also sat down in the studio with Rose Bear Don't Walk.

Rose: I am Bitterroot Selis and Crow from the Flathead Indian Reservation. And I currently am a Selis ethnobotanist.

Andrew: And let's pretend for a minute that I've never heard the term ethnobotanist before. What does that mean?

Michael: Well, somebody who studies ethnobotany:

Rose: Uh, ethnobotany is the study of different cultures, groups of people, societies, even, and their interactions and relationships with plants, whether it's for tools, for food or religious purposes.

Michael: And I wanted to talk to them both, not just because they're knowledgeable (and they are brilliant), but because they have a background in teaching others about Native foods.

Mariah: Of course middle-schoolers are always interested in any skills that will help them survive zombie apocalypses—

Rose: Talking to people about science, and talking about plants, and—

Michael: So they can do it all. Outdoors or online, with adults and students alike. I figured they'd be able to help me learn a little bit about Native foods. But first, I wanted to know what drew them to working with and advocating for Native foods in the first place. And both of them cited the diet related health problems facing Native communities: diabetes, heart disease, obesity—

Mariah: And a lot of that stems from the decimation of the bison populations in order to control Plains people.

Michael: Meaning that in the 1860s, the U.S. Government sought to kill bison because Native Americans like the Blackfeet relied on them, with one Colonel in the army quoted as saying: "Kill every Buffalo you can, every Buffalo dead is an Indian gone."

Mariah: And from that, of course, we see this reliance on government rations like flour and sugar and lard and beef, and things that were not indigenous to our diets.

Andrew: So she's saying that after the new eradication of bison, Plains Tribes, like the Blackfeet, couldn't eat or live the way they used to and had to eat government rations, there weren't nearly as healthy?

Michael: Precisely. And this switch from traditional diets to rations was a foundational traumatic change with lasting ramifications.

Mariah: For the Blackfeet that's especially relevant because our reliance on government food systems led us to make really hard decisions.

Michael: Here's Joe McKay and Carol Murray from the video on display at the St. Mary Visitor Center—

Joe: In September of 1895, late September, the government sent new treaty commissioners to meet with the people and they called them all together. They said "we come to buy some of that land up there, those rocks, those mountains." And one of the leaders stood up and he said, "well, we don't want to show you any more land." And after four days, looked like no agreement was going to be reached. And finally something happened, that last night, and some kind of an agreement was made. And we ceded the land that you call Glacier Park to the federal government for $1.5 million.

Carol: I think one of the real big impacts of why they sold the land, if they so sold, it is we had a starvation winter in 1883, 84. I believe they thought that the money would provide resources for them to survive. Our people were literally starving to death.

Mariah: As a Blackfeet person now, that sees the land that I'm standing on in Glacier Park, and how our ancestors lost that land from our Reservation space so that I could exist today. That is something I consider to come with a huge amount of responsibility to take care of these lands.

Andrew: Wow.

Michael: Yeah.

Andrew: And I know stories like that are far from rare across Indigenous communities.

Michael: Which means that Mariah and Rose's efforts to share knowledge of Indigenous foods are resonating far and wide.

Andrew: Well, okay. You've set the stage or table so to speak, but what would a traditional Indigenous diet look like?

Michael: Well, that obviously varied a lot place to place and seasonally, but I asked Mariah and Rose about that.

Rose: A lot of it was shaped by the coming and goings of different game animals. Like when the Buffalo are ready to be hunted the winter kind of like the winter hunt and the summer hunt.

Mariah: Pemmican mixes. So dry meat mixed with different berries. Of course, in the summertime, we have lots and lots of plant foods that we have access to: root vegetables like prairie turnips to biscuit roots, all of which are root vegetables. Fresh greens, things like false Solomon’s seal, nettles, which I'm looking at right now.

Michael: A lot of these foods could just be harvested and eaten, but some required preparation like Indian ice cream.

Andrew: What's Indian ice cream?

Rose: Which is, uh, made from foam berries. They picked it, they put it in a bowl and they whipped it up with some water and it made just this beautiful foamy little concoction.

Michael: Whoa!

Michael: And you're familiar with our local plants, you know camas?

Andrew: Oh yeah. It's a beautiful blue flower.

Michael: Well, while it has a pretty flower, it was actually their bulbs that were an important food source.

Andrew: The bulb being the organ the flower stores food in under the soil.

Michael: Yeah. With onions, probably being the most famous example of a bulb.

Mariah: For really traditional food, we can see things like camas bakes, and the camas bulbs that were harvested and baked in a pit.

Michael: And the process of preparing the bulbs, a camas bake, might just be the most complicated recipe I've ever heard of.

Rose: One of my workshop ideas was to do a camas bake. And so a couple other young women and I got together and we, we did the thing.

Michael: How long did it take?

Rose: Traditionally, the camas bake is three to four days in an earth oven.

Michael: How do you, how do you make an earth oven?

Rose: Okay. So you dig a pit, you need enough space in the hole to lay a layer of rocks. And then you put all their branches and ferns and skunk cabbage in there—

Mariah: The proteins in there, which are generally not very digestible if you eat them raw, it takes a really long time to break those things down.

Rose: You kind of cover that with dirt. You get those rocks at the bottom, super hot in a fire and you kind of dump them in there and you have a stick in the middle and you build around that stick, pull the stick out and you pour water in there. So when the water hits the rocks,

Michael: Oh it steams.

Rose: —it starts to steam! Yeah. So it's a steam cook earth oven.

Michael: Whoa.

Rose: Yeah.

Michael: That's complicated.

Rose: It is!

Mariah: All those sugars and starches in the camas roots would caramelize, and you would get sweet almost potato-like starches. The trial and error process that must have happened in order to recognize how long you have to bake camus bulbs for those to caramelize into something that's really, really good.

Michael: Yeah. Trying to just analyze the little examples of trial and error in my own experience, trying to be a home chef. It blows my mind how many iterations that had to have gone through before arriving at that procedure.

Rose: Mm-hmm!

Michael: Wow. That's really neat.

Rose: And the procedure has, you know, existed for probably thousands of years now.

Michael: Yeah.

Rose: Which is incredible!

Michael: Wow. And this intricate process is the sole responsibility of women. I later learned that Kootenai men aren't even allowed near the roasting pit, unless it was to bring firewood.

Rose: Women's roles are just so incredibly important to our societies, but also their roles in our food systems were, were huge. They were the main, you know, foragers, processors, cookers, and keepers of all of this knowledge.

Michael: The role of and significance of women came up time and time again in our interviews.

Andrew: It's a topic really worthy of its own episode.

Michael: And it's no wonder they were so respected because even a camas bake could be life and death.

Mariah: Um, the problem with identifying camas for harvesting is that it was traditionally eaten after it bloomed. And we also have death camas. Death camas is incredibly toxic, And if you have one death camas bulb in a whole bunch of regular blue camas bulbs, you will get incredibly sick and possibly die.

Andrew: Wow. that's really scary.

Michael: Yeah. And it wasn't just camas. Poisonous foods came up quite a bit.

Rose: Uh, Rose hips are chock full of vitamin C,

Michael: But the seeds are poisonous, right?

Rose: The seeds—don't eat the seeds! Don't eat the seeds.

Michael: So on top of the knowledge required to prepare food. You also needed to know what things to avoid. And some of that knowledge was passed down through stories.

Rose: The Selis have a story about that too, you know, about the seeds. Coyote stories are based on this kind of trickster paradigm that's very prevalent in a lot of Indigenous cultures. There's usually a being in our history that, you know, do, as I say, not as I do type guy. Kind of does all the wrong things so we learn from him. And so we do have a story about him eating the berries. But the word for rose hips in Selis, it does tie to something along the lines of coyotes' berry. And they call it coyotes' berry because, you know, if, if you eat the seeds, you get an itchy digestive system or like, you know, an itchy, butt.

Michael: [Laughing]

Rose: Because it's not good for your system [laughing]! So that's how, that's, that's how we learned. Um, and that's why we call it that.

Michael: This is a good to slip. In some advice if you're looking to forage for food. A simple rule, no story required, is that if you don't know what something is, don't eat it.

Andrew: And even if you think you know what it is, but you're not a hundred percent sure just don't eat it.

Michael: And if you're hoping to forage in the park while you're not allowed to pick for commercial purposes, you are allowed to pick a few berries for a snack. And that's a good place to start.

Mariah: Looking at the amount of thimbleberries that are ripe in the immediate vicinity—

Michael: Now, when I arranged to meet with Mariah, I knew we wouldn't have the time or tools at our disposal to make anything complicated. But I wondered if there was a simple recipe we could make. And after talking for a bit, she asked me to start picking thimbleberries. So I set out to grab as many as I could.

Michael: [picking thimbleberries] Oh, that one was good.

Michael: Knowing now what we were going to use them for, we spent way longer than we needed to collecting them. But it's fun!

Andrew: I know I've found myself carried away, picking berries, time, just kind of slips away.

Michael: And as I was running around in thimbleberries bushes, I was thinking about what I know about plants. As a ranger, my focus was often on the scientific side, learning how they work, how to tell them apart... Talking to Mariah and Rose, I was learning about camas bakes, about Indian ice cream—practices that date back thousands of years. And these cultural components of plants are invisible, and often, far more difficult to learn about than Latin names.

Rose: A lot of people, when they're bringing up memories of how they started to interact with plants, how they know these plants—it was with their grandma. They, you know, went out into the woods and they learned how to properly make Indian ice cream.

Michael: And the connection between people and plants extends beyond fond childhood memories and into language itself.

Rose: So the, the word for foamberry in selis is Sx̣ʷo̓sm. And the x̣ʷos in that, in the middle, means foam. Means to like foam up. So in even just naming that particular plant, it's based on how it was used and how it was known.

Andrew: Yeah. Wow. So yeah, just like the place names you mentioned earlier, plant names on their own could even instruct you as to how to use them as food.

Michael: Exactly. It would be like naming potatoes, boiling-oil-root or something.

Andrew: Well, that actually might be helpful to some people.

Michael: Now, Rose and Mariah have a wealth of lived and learned experience and knowledge about native plants and have been using new and exciting ways to share that knowledge with others.

Mariah: ...different things. Obviously I do cooking videos online so that everyone has access to a lot of the work that I'm doing. But I also go in and I do demonstrations and classes, both for, uh, Native and non-Native communities.

Andrew: Is it easy to teach these recipes? How have people reacted to the ingredients she uses?

Michael: Well, she said students often surprise her.

Mariah: It's pleasantly surprising. Many students know things that are edible, but don't necessarily know how to prepare it,

Michael: Which I feel like that's the camp I'm in. I take the time to learn if a plant will kill you or not, but don't know much anything beyond that. What Mariah does that is pretty clever is incorporate these ingredients into dishes that you've likely had before. Like with nettles.

Mariah: I know that we did a catering gig one time where we used that almost like spinach and an omelet there's ways that you can incorporate traditional foods, obviously into foods you may be more familiar with.

Michael: And after picking, collecting, and greedily eating them for a bit, that turned out to be what we were doing with our thimbleberries.

Andrew: Oh yeah. So this is where the cookies come in.

Michael: Yep.

Mariah: I'm thinking that we can make some thimbleberry thumbprint cookies.

Michael: Everyone likes a good cookie, and we were going to make some with only indigenous ingredients. Now to be clear, we used ingredients indigenous to North and Central America, so not all of this grows in Montana, but can be found at your local grocery store. But what is the first thing you gotta do if you're making cookies?

Andrew: I guess make cookie dough?

Michael: Exactly.

Mariah: The first thing I'm going to do is, I actually have some chia seeds. And I'm going to let the chia seeds soak in water for a second, just a little bit of water, about double the amount of chia seeds that I have—

Michael: The first step to make our dough was to soak chia seeds in water, which causes them to get kind of gel-ly.

Mariah: Yeah. And that'll help everything stick together. It works just like an egg.

Michael: Next comes the flour.

Mariah: And while I do that, I'm actually going to take some of these raw sunflower seeds—so the shells are off of these sunflower seeds—I'm going to take these and I'm going to pound the crap out of them.

Michael: Once you grind the sunflower seeds into a flour, you add them to the gelled chia seeds,

Mariah: So we're going to add our sunflower seeds to our chia mix and stir them together.

Michael: And then you are almost done with your dough.

Mariah: And then to sweeten everything up for these cookies, because this is a dessert recipe—or a healthy snack? I don't know. Um, we're going to add a little bit of maple syrup into this mix. And obviously the amount of maple syrup you add is dependent on your preferences. It looked like there was going to be an awesome sound for that maple syrup being poured.

Michael: Mold it into a desk and press a thumbprint in the middle, and all that's left is to add your toppings.

Mariah: We went and picked thimbleberries and we're going to use them as the filling and our little thumbprint cookies.

Michael: And lo and behold, they were delicious.

Background: So good, I could eat those all day.

Andrew: And pretty simple!

Michael: Yeah.

Mariah: Considering I just did it sitting on the middle of a trail. Yes. This is pretty simple.

Michael: Super simple.

Mariah: Sunflower seeds and maple syrup are pretty easy ingredients to find. And it's cool to recognize their indigenous roots, even if they aren't necessarily from this area. And then it's fun because we used both huckleberries and thimbleberries, and you can use whatever type of edible berries you could find, even if you're using berries that only grow in your home community and not necessarily in Glacier Park.

Michael: So hopefully I did him justice today.

Andrew: I thought they were pretty good. And I looked up Mariah's website. She's got a ton of recipes to choose from.

Michael: Her website and YouTube channel are a great resource. You could also find Rose's whole ethnobotany paper online, we'll have links in the show notes to both—but while I've used my time so far to argue that food is the best gateway into another culture, luckily for us here at Glacier, that's just the beginning. Thanks to something called the Native America Speaks Program.

Background: With no further ado and bologna, I shall turn you over... to Vernon! [clapping]

Vernon: Okay. Is this on okay? Can you hear me okay?

Andrew: Glacier is home to the longest-running Indigenous speaker series in the National Park Service, which has been going for over 30 years!

Michael: Native America Speaks programs happen at visitor centers and camgrounds all around the park, giving Tribal members the opportunity to share their own stories.

Andrew: In 2019, that meant over 100 different events by nearly 20 different speakers.

Michael: Including everyone we’ve met so far in this episode!

Andrew: I met with Tony Incashola Sr., director of the Selis Kalispell Culture Committee on the Flathead Reservation, who has been involved since the beginning of the program.

NATIVE AMERICA SPEAKS - ELDERS

Tony Incashola Sr.: They were starting this new program and they were asking if I was interested, and I had seen that it was an opportunity to educate, to share and try to bring understanding.

Kelly Lynch: It's such an amazing opportunity. It's just so authentic. And it's from their heart.

Andrew: This is Kelly Lynch.

Kelly Lynch: I have been working with Native American Speaks for, I guess this will be the fourth year. I heard someone once say, you can't think about Glacier Park and not think about all the Tribes, cause they're part of it. It's part of them. And they're telling stories about this landscape. It's just really powerful. I'm a pretty emotional person. And I probably cry at most of the programs because they're just really powerful.

Andrew: Here's Darnell Rides at the Door—

Darnell Rides at the Door: I was one of the first ones that presented in... 30 years ago. And it was at Two Medicine campground.

Michael: Do you remember what that presentation covered?

Darnell Rides at the Door: Yes. It covered speaking above the wind next to a rock where people couldn't hear me.

Kelly Lynch: This is just a small little opportunity to learn about another culture that very few people know much about because it's not even written in history books. And it's, yeah, giving them the respect and honoring them for this knowledge that they hold.

Darnell Rides at the Door: I wanted people to know who we are, the real people, the real us, and where we come from, and dissolve some of those myths about Indian people. And that we're not just what you see in the movies. And even to this day, there's still those misconceived notions as to that we're still here. We do exist.

Andrew: Here's Vernon Finley—

Vernon Finley: When I tell the part of history after contact, it gets difficult for some to hear because there was, there was a lot of unpleasant things. And so I've had a few people get up and walk away because of the difficulty of it. But early on, when I started doing the presentations, the Elders Advisory Group for the Culture Committee requested me to come and present to us on what you're telling the white people out there. So I did, I went in and told them what it was all about. The eldest person there finally spoke and said, well, what you say is truthful, but truth is difficult to hear sometimes for some people. And so when you do this presentation, make sure, make sure, absolutely sure that they know how much we appreciate them coming here. And because Glacier Park and Ya'qawiswitxuki, and this whole area, it's kept this way for them not for us. And so, I said, okay, I'll make sure they understand that.

Darnell Rides at the Door: When we do presentations with the museums, some of the younger kids say, well, I thought Indians were only in the movies. Well, how did you get here? I thought Indians didn't drive cars. Do you live in a house? We thought you just lived in teepees. It's humorous in a way, but it's also very educational for us as well. And dissolving a lot of the myths, a lot of the prejudices that we don't need in this world because we're all people. We're all people, no matter our color, our religious beliefs, whatever.

Andrew: Here's Tony Incashola Sr. again—

Tony Incashola Sr.: To me, honesty and truth is the best foundation you can build. We can't change history. What happened in the past happened, but we use that history to make sure that it doesn't happen again, but also to make sure that that the truths come out on that. We don't want to change history because we can't, for any reason at all. It's always best to be honest and truthful because we're the ones responsible for our elders’ stories and information.

Darnell Rides at the Door: It's a joyous occasion. I mean, it's just to get close to the mountains is wonderful. And then to mingle with the people that's, that's one of my grandmother's terms mingling. But she'd say mangle. Just being able to see those people from all over the world and, and, associate with them.

Tony Incashola Sr.: And I think for anybody that comes to these, I think they will learn to understand a little bit more about themselves. That's when I try to let people know. That there is a difference and there's a reason why there's a difference. And each one of us in this country have a role to play and a role to carry and responsibility for the next generation. You know, time goes by so quickly, very quickly, and we don't have time to do anything, but prepare the next, for the next generation. And that's what I learned from my, my elders is that everything that we do today is not for ourselves. It's not for us. It's always for the next generations down the road, the next seven generations. Those are the generations that we live for. Those are the generations that we are doing things today for. So the next generation can learn and pass it on.

Andrew: We'll hear from that generation after this break.

GLACIER NATIONAL PARK CONSERVANCY AD

Michael: Each episode, we seem to cover at least one thing that—like this podcast—wouldn't be possible without the support of the Glacier National Park Conservancy.

Andrew: With the help of some friends over there, we got the number of executive director Doug Mitchell, and decided to call him up out of the blue and ask about some of these projects.

Michael: For this episode, every time we coordinated the interviews with Tribal members, we made sure to let the Conservancy know.

Andrew: So we called Doug to find out why.

Doug: Glacier National Park Conservancy, Doug Mitchell speaking, how may I help you?

Michael: Hey, Doug, it's Michael and Andrew, how are you doing?

Doug: Hey, it's my audio bloggers. I guess that was the old name before somebody came up with, uh, podcasters—but we don't have iPods anymore either, so I'm not even sure what that's about.

Michael: No we don't [laughs] Well, for the podcast this summer, and for this episode, we've had the chance to talk to a lot of Native America Speaks presenters. And every time we schedule an interview, we reach out to let you all know at the Conservancy when that interview is taking place. Why would we need to work with you to plan an interview with Tribal members?

Doug: Well, we are super privileged at the Conservancy to be the park's partner to help fund these Native America Speaks programs. And in 2019, we were able to have over 100 programs—there was one every night of the summer in the park. To be able to give park visitors access to these very, very important stories about people before the park, the land before the park. Montana's first people.

Andrew: It's great. It's a pretty unique opportunity to get to listen in and hear the stories of these people that are still keeping their traditions alive today.

Doug: Yeah. I mean, you used exactly the right word: "Listen." You know, these stories are there, but they're only accessible if we are willing to listen. And the superintendent has really set an expectation in his staff, and in our team, that we really want to listen and engage in the story of this place. And that story rings completely hollow without its very foundation, which is the Native people.

Michael: Yeah. And that we could provide that opportunity for visitors, not just every night of the summer, but uh, in virtually every corner of the park—these programs are offered at some point, whether it's Two Medicine or Lake McDonald or St. Mary—they're all over the place.

Doug: The stories are all over the place, and the telling of them is actually now even being able to be extended outside the park. I know there are Native America speaks programs going on right now in schools in Montana. They might not have been able to travel to the park, but now they're going to get that story. So this ability, as you guys are doing, to deliver things digitally is really going to be an interesting new expansion of this program.

Michael: And it's something we're really fortunate to be a part of as well. And thank you, as always for that. And for taking some time out of your day, we'll talk to you soon.

Doug: Well Andrew and Michael, you guys are a great thing to have to this podcast program is super exciting. We're just so thrilled to be a part of it.

Michael: Well, we'll talk soon.

Doug: Cheers.

Michael: Bye.

Andrew: Cheers.

NATIVE AMERICA SPEAKS – THE NEXT GENERATION

Andrew: Here's Rose Bear Don’t Walk—

Rose Bear Don’t Walk: There's parts in our US history that we tend to think were a really long time ago. But in actuality, I mean the boarding school era was a couple of decades ago, and that still has a lot of imprints on our communities. So for example, my, you know, my grandparents were in boarding schools and so their knowledge of different cultural things was not as robust because of the way that boarding schools were created and carried out. And I have so much respect for my grandparents and all that they've done and all that they've persevered through, but that kind of left a gap. It left a gap in that cultural continuity. And so I think that's kind of what we're seeing in why this younger generation is just so... They just want to learn so much and engage and research and help the community and just do all those things, because we know about those gaps in our history and those particular things that have happened.

Andrew: Tony Incashola Sr.—

Tony Incashola Sr.: You know, I, where I work at the Culture Committee, I have what I call an Elders Council. I had a question all I had to do, I had 30, 20, 30 elders I could turn to. And, you know, they'd have an answer. And about two years ago, I had a question I turned around. There was nobody there. You know those elders that I depended on, the elders that were knowledgeable, were gone. And then I realized that, Hey, wait a minute, I had to answer it myself. I was next in line.

Andrew: And Darnell Rides at the Door—

Darnell Rides at the Door: Grandma lived with me off and on, and as well as a couple of the other grandchildren throughout her life, towards the end of her life as well. And I always thought she'd always be here. When she passed it, left a void, a great void. And it made you think, well, who's going to tell us stories now? Who do we go to to ask who we're related to? She could go back 10 generations, and I'm not exaggerating because she could.

Tony Incashola Sr.: And now I'm kind of starting a new generation of elders that are younger, but I'm bringing them in and I'm sharing, trying to get up to speed so they can take over.

Darnell Rides at the Door: It's kind of a rude awakening. I started to realize that when my grandkids started to ask me questions, and then I began teaching the Blackfeet skies or the ethnobotany, or just how to make a lodge. And when I found out that I'm the one teaching that, that reality hit me. And not only that, I never did consider myself old. I am the oldest of my nine siblings, but I never thought of myself as being an Elder.

Andrew: Mariah Gladstone—

Mariah Gladstone: So my dad co-founded the Native America Speaks program. And at the time when I decided to reach out about joining the speaker series, the program participants and the speakers were still primarily elder men. Obviously there is a huge amount of wisdom in our elders, but I also think that as Native people, we have always made it a point to listen to our youth as well.

Darnell Rides at the Door: Age doesn't matter. They have a curiosity that's untold, but also diversity and uniqueness in that there's no prejudices in their vocabulary.

Rose Bear Don’t Walk: I think there's a big push for a lot of young people just to get really involved. And they're just so excited about it. They're so excited to learn about the culture and the traditions and things like that.

Mariah Gladstone: Being able to share those different stories I think makes the Native America Speaks program far more interesting than if we just had one demographic that was speaking. And I think if you've been to one Native American Speaks program, you should find another one and go to that one and find a different speaker and go to that one because you're going to get different knowledge, not just because you're getting knowledge from different Tribes, but because people are coming into it with different experiences and their specialties are in different areas.

Andrew: That’s our show for you today—If you’re interested in learning more about the Native America Speaks Program, or learning more about the cultures you met in this episode, you can find links in our show notes to our website.

Michael: Thanks for listening!

CREDITS

Renata: Headwaters is a production of Glacier National Park with support from the Glacier National Park Conservancy. The show was written and recorded on traditional Native lands. Andrew Smith and Michael Faist produced, edited and hosted the show. Ben Cosgrove wrote and performed our music. Alex Stillson provided tech support, Quinn Feller designed our art, Renata Harrison researched the show, Lacy Kowalski was always there for us, and Daniel Lombardi and Bill Hayden were the executive directors. Support for the show comes from the Glacier National Park Conservancy. The Conservancy works to preserve and protect the park for future generations. We couldn't do it without them, and they couldn't do it without support from thousands of generous donors. If you want to learn more about how to support this podcast, or other awesome Conservancy projects, please go to their website at glacier.org. Of course you can always help support the show by sharing it with everyone you know— your friends, your family, your dog... And also leave us a review online. Special thanks this episode to Mariah Gladstone, Rose Bear Don’t Walk, Vernon Finley, Tony Incashola Sr., Darnell Rides At The Door, and Kelly Lynch.

Glacier National Park, a place often celebrated for its natural scenery, offers an equally diverse and rich cultural landscape. In this episode of Headwaters, food offers an introduction to the area’s Indigenous communities. We also explore the longest-running Indigenous speaker series in the National Park Service.

Featuring: Darnell Rides At The Door, Vernon Finley, Mariah Gladstone, Rose Bear Don’t Walk, Tony Incashola Sr., and Kelly Lynch.

For more info, visit: go.nps.gov/headwaters

Glacier National Park, a place often celebrated for its natural scenery, offers an equally diverse and rich cultural landscape.

In this episode of Headwaters, food offers an introduction to the area’s Indigenous communities. We also explore the longest-running Indigenous speaker series in the National Park Service.

Featuring: Darnell Rides At The Door, Vernon Finley, Mariah Gladstone, Rose Bear Don’t Walk, Tony Incashola Sr., and Kelly Lynch.

For more info, visit: go.nps.gov/headwaters

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