Grand Canyon Speaks (U.S. National Park Service)

Episodes

Season 2

Episode 5

Kiana Omi Toadlena Speaks

Transcript

Kiana GC Speaks

Kiana Omi Toadlena: Yeah, so Native American Heritage Month for me means being Diné and being resilient. Always finding a way for yourself and paving the path no matter where you come from and how far you've come. Being Native American should be recognized every day because we're always on Native land.

Lakin: Welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

Meranden: And this is Meranden.

Lakin: In celebration of Native American Heritage Month, we sat down with Kiana Omi Toadlena, who was a contestant for Miss Navajo this past year.

Meranden: Yeah, she was able to explain what the pageant consists of, her purpose for running, and a fun experience of silversmithing with other contestants.

Lakin: And she also explained how family is a root source of her inspiration, especially the strong women in her life.

Meranden: We were very honored to have her speak during our festival in November. So we hope you enjoy this episode. Kiana Omi Toadlena: Yá'át'ééh shik’éí dóó shidine’é. Shí eí Kiana Omi Toadlena yinishyé.

Kiana: Naakaii Dine’é nishlo' Táchii’nii bashishchiin,Tó Dích’íi’nii dashicheii, aadóó Kinyaa’áanii dashinalí. (Continues to introduce self in Navajo). Hello everyone. Thank you all for coming.

Kiana: My name is Kiana Omi Toadlena. I introduce myself in my native language. I am of the Mexican people clan and born for Red Streak Through the Water people clan.

Kiana: I am from Sawmill, Arizona. It's a small community near Window Rock, Arizona. I like to identify as a Diné woman through my clans and originally from the Navajo Nation.

Kiana: Thank you all for having me. I'm really excited. I studied at Northern Arizona University with a major in health science.

Kiana: My line of profession is consisting of medical science. That's a little bit about me. Thank you.

Meranden: Awesome. We're really excited to have her here. One thing I really wanted to have is really empowering our indigenous women. I'm really a big advocate for having those indigenous women empower and be seen through these kind of programs and things like that. I'm really glad you're here. I'm going to start.

Meranden: Is this your first time to the Grand Canyon? How far was your drive? Kiana: No, it's not my first time at the Grand Canyon. This is actually my third time. I visited the Grand Canyon for the first time when I was about 12.

Kiana: It was a brief family trip here. I think my dad was really interested in showing us the landscapes because we're from Arizona. I think it's kind of funny.

Kiana: We've never seen the Grand Canyon for almost 12 years. The second time I went with some friends. They were from Georgia.

Kiana: They really wanted to know what the Grand Canyon looked like. We came here. This is my third time.

Kiana: Some of my connections with the Grand Canyon, I absolutely love the landscapes and the environment. It really reminds me of being home and knowing that this is a part of my identity as a Diné woman. Growing up, my grandma always told me that the canyon landscapes are very, very sacred.

Kiana: They mean a lot to us as Diné people. I don't know if you guys know. There's kind of a mini version of the Grand Canyon on the reservation near Chinle, Arizona.

Kiana: It's called Canyon de Chelly. She [grandmother] used to share stories that our ancestors used to hide in the canyons from a lot of the colonizers that were causing genocide in our communities. That's kind of my personal connection with the Grand Canyon.

Kiana: I kind of like to channel that spirit every time I come here. Lakin: Thank you for sharing those connections. I think it's always nice to hear from every individual and also from every culture.

Lakin: There are a lot of differences and similarities between connections and just how we interpret those connections. People who come from the same culture as us and people who are also foreign to our culture. That's nice to hear.

Lakin: I think we'll just get into the next question. There may be some in the audience who may be unfamiliar with what Miss Navajo title is. Would you mind explaining a little bit about that? Kiana: For the Miss Navajo Nation pageant, it's a very prestigious and intense pageant that the Navajo Nation has.

Kiana: The Miss Navajo Nation role consists of being a public ambassador. You're basically in a government role serving as a spokesperson and advocate for your people. Whether that be for the youth, the elderly, or within your own generation.

Kiana: The Miss Navajo Nation pageant has been around for many, many years. I think it's beautiful that it's still alive to this day. One of the main things that Miss Navajo does as the reigning queen, she's able to travel to communities and educate her people.

Kiana: Empower, uplift, and encourage cultural teachings amongst her people. That's kind of what the Miss Navajo Nation title entails. For those of you that don't know.

Meranden: Awesome. I understand that this takes place in Window Rock? Kiana: The Miss Navajo Nation pageant is usually during the Navajo Nation Fair. It's probably one of the biggest fairs that goes on in the reservation.

Kiana: Many communities come and join to experience cultural practices like dances, singing, or even just being with family. I think that's really great that they have it during that time. Meranden: Just to let everyone know, where is Window Rock at? Kiana: Window Rock is a little bit up north of Arizona.

Kiana: It's the capital of the Navajo Reservation. It's going towards Albuquerque. If you're going towards Albuquerque on I-40, you'd likely pass the exit.

Kiana: It's really close to Gallup, New Mexico. Meranden: Awesome. You have to run for this position.

Meranden: It has various contestants. Would you be able to explain the different components of the pageant? How many people may run for this position? Kiana: The pageant is usually announced a couple months before the competition is held. Through that entire process, you're allowed to pick up an application.

Kiana: There are very specific requirements to run for the pageant, such as you can't be married. You can't have a spouse or a significant other. You can't be over the age of 25.

Kiana: You've got to speak your native language, obviously. You have to have a platform. Those are some of the main requirements to run for the title.

Kiana: However, it just depends on how many people are interested that year. Luckily, when I ran this year, when I made the decision to do so, there were six contestants. Six of us, that's kind of crazy.

Kiana: For the past few years, they only had about two or three girls run. It was a little sad to see from the outside that the interest of people wanting to run for this title decreased. But this year, it was kind of an awakening, it felt like.

Kiana: Along with what goes on during the pageant, it's a week-long entire pageant, starting with sheep butchering. Which is kind of interesting for the outside people that don't really understand our culture. They always question, like, you have to kill a sheep to become a queen? I think that's so funny.

Kiana: Butchering a sheep is actually a very cultural and sacred practice within the Navajo culture. We look at sheep as a way of life. They kind of structure our belief systems in family and always being a provider for not just our family, but our community.

Kiana: So we hold the sheep to a very high pedestal. To be able to perform that type of competition in front of many people, it's intense, but it's very beautiful. Lakin: I think that's special that you get to embrace your culture in a public setting.

Lakin: A lot of people might have that fear of being wrong or doing something wrong. But being able to confront that fear and get over that in a public setting while learning more about yourself culturally and personally is very powerful. I'm glad that you got to share that experience with us.

Lakin: That kind of gets us into the next question, which is, what inspired you to run for Miss Navajo? Kiana: The main thing that inspired me were kind of my own life's journey, as well as the mother figures within my family. They've always pushed me to try and go towards my goals and try new things. This year, when I decided to run for Miss Navajo, I kind of wanted to challenge myself.

Kiana: It was kind of a hard thing for me to decide because within my life, I'd like to be more empowered culturally and kind of integrate the modern teachings that I've learned, like being away in college, being away from the reservation, and kind of tie those two together to be the woman I am. My mother, she is a chief of police in Gallup, New Mexico. She was my biggest role model throughout my entire life.

Kiana: When I kind of opened up to her about running for this title, she was the biggest supporter. I would just say that the women in my family inspired me. Lakin: Yeah, I really like the fact that our family is the foundation of our support for us.

Lakin: It starts when we're small all the way to early adulthood and understanding how nurturing those connections and that kinship can really empower us and give us the spirit to empower our children and the community around us. Nurturing that relationship is very vital and important when it comes to our living experience as indigenous communities and families and people. Kiana: I think that's really important because a lot of the youth nowadays on the reservation, they kind of veer away from the culture.

Kiana: Nowadays, I think it's much easier to integrate culture and modern technology to learn better. I've actually tried to push a lot of the youth in my community to download Duolingo. You can actually learn Navajo on there and it's actually really good.

Kiana: Being able to have those resources is just unbelievable compared to what my ancestors have been through. Learning the stories about the long walk and even just the community of where I'm from, Fort Defiance, we still see how the land structures are. I think that needs to be emphasized more in our indigenous communities is learning about those landscapes and everything.

Kiana: I like how you mentioned that there. Lakin: You brought up the point of utilizing modern resources, modern technology and digital technology. What I see is a lot of older people have a negative reaction when it comes to that, but I feel like being able to adapt as a community and as people can really help us prepare for the next stage of evolution.

Lakin: We can do so by, like you said, utilizing those digital resources at this moment. Kiana: That's so important because a lot of the elders on the reservation don't believe in technology. They have a very stigmatized idea of technology.

Kiana: Although it is like colonizing our culture, we can find a lot of help within those resources. I think that is one problem and one challenge I ran into during the pageant was trying to get my community to get out of their comfort zone. I brought a lot of originality to the pageant and I was told this by many, many people.

Kiana: I even faced the backlash of the elders being a little critiquing by the way I speak my language, by the way I look, by the way I present myself. They tell me I'm not native enough or I'm not indulged in my culture enough. That was one of my biggest challenges was to try to fulfill that generational gap.

Kiana: Honestly, it actually inspired me and pushed me to do my very best in this entire pageant. I think I kind of caught a lot of people by surprise. I remember when the photos and the official announcements were being made, I got so much critiques on everything.

Kiana: People even questioned if I was even Navajo or even allowed to run. Just seeing that perspective was very unfortunate. My biggest goal for that entire thing was to re-inspire my people that an individual like me can come from such a small and rural community and still lead everyone on the Navajo Nation.

Kiana: I think that's one thing that I take away from this experience as a win. Lakin: I can speak for myself that you're doing a very great job at representing your people and embracing your culture and identity. I applaud you for that.

Lakin: Next question is how does the role of Miss Navajo empower your community or the Diné people? Kiana: I like to look at the role of Miss Navajo Nation as the bridge between the youth and the new generations with our elders. I know a lot of people just look at this role as a prestigious leadership role, a public ambassador, a public figure. Miss Navajo Nation is there to serve her people in a good way.

Kiana: For those of you that aren't familiar, when I ran for the pageant, my platform was to focus on healing through heritage. I really wanted to emphasize this because you can't really change a community by knowing what the problem is within. I know a lot of our people struggle with generational trauma that leads to mental health problems, domestic violence, alcoholism, and things of that nature.

Kiana: I really wanted to bring more awareness to that from our leaders. In doing so, it was very hard to get that across because the idea of Miss Navajo is just she is one role, she is this, and that's who she's going to be. I would have really liked to expand what the role of Miss Navajo Nation is, helping new generations to get to college or even working for internships because that's where it all starts.

Kiana: I was really pushing for the idea of entrepreneurship on the reservation because I truly believe that entrepreneurship is instilled within us as Navajo people. We lived off trade at one point, and we've always, always relied on our own resources. I think that mindset is essential to being a businesswoman, a businessman, and being indulged in the entrepreneurship world.

Meranden: That's awesome. We do have the cultural demonstration program here at Grand Canyon, which is done at Desert View. Currently, we have two artists, and they are able to demonstrate their craft, talk about their connections to the Grand Canyon.

Meranden: They have the supplies out of this is how it starts, this is how it gets to this step, and this is the finished product. They have that all out there, and it allows them to express themselves and let a lot of people, especially internationally here at the park, to see those kind of crafts. We have someone inside right now that's inside the visitor center.

Meranden: They're able to demonstrate their crafts and tell you the importance of certain things. That brings me to another thing of these are not just items. They have a long story behind them.

Meranden: There's so many reasons why we have certain jewelry, why there's this color, why we have this kind of stone, why this painting is a certain way. There's so much meaning behind all this, and it allows them to use that craft and show it out to the world and allows us to express ourselves. It's really good that you mentioned that as well.

Kiana: I actually love that because small businesses on the reservation don't get enough recognition. There's so many talented artists out there. I come from a long line of hunters and silversmiths.

Kiana: We try to practice that as my grandparents grow older. We're trying to carry on that tradition of being able to silversmith. Actually, some of the jewelry I'm wearing today, my grandpa made for me.

Kiana: A lot of the jewelry that I have is either borrowed or shared between family. It's actually ironic that we're silversmiths but don't own full sets of jewelry. It's kind of our way of life.

Kiana: My grandfather has always been his own businessman, and that's how he provided for our family. To know that as a first-generation college student, I was able to get that far with him just doing that. I think that's also what inspires my entire journey as a Diné woman.

Kiana: I think shedding light on the small businesses on the reservation needs to be talked about more, too. Meranden: That's awesome that you bring that up. When we had this podcast party, we asked the panelists that are up here, what do you want to see in the podcast, like the future episodes? One person mentioned small indigenous businesses.

Meranden: That's definitely something that we would really like to highlight more. I really like that you brought that up. Usually in this podcast, me and Lakin try to ask a fun question.

Meranden: Our fun question is, if you could have any traditional dish right now, what would it be? I would say mutton dumpling stew. I love dumpling stew. If you guys haven't had it, I really recommend you stop by Scott's Food Stand in Window Rock, Arizona.

Kiana: They have the best stew there. I remember growing up, I think it's a comfort food because my late grandma Rose, she would always make it every time we went there. Every time it was cold in the winter and we'd have the stew, it was just a full circle moment.

Kiana: Like, oh my gosh. I would have that for sure. Lakin: Yeah, that sounds good.

Lakin: Maybe you could make it for us next time you come. Kiana: Oh my gosh, yes, I have to. Lakin: A question from me.

Lakin: My personal interest is your attire and your dress. Can you explain a bit more about that? Because I really like the burgundy and the pink, the tulle and the embroidery. Kiana: Thank you.

Kiana: This outfit was actually gifted to me by Jumbo Creations. He's an indigenous designer, rather very luxury. So this kind of style of outfit is not so traditional, but it's very modern mixed with traditional.

Kiana: I know a lot of outfits nowadays have these little embellishments and they kind of just bring that luxury feeling to you. And then I'm wearing, obviously, my moccasins. These were also gifted to me during the pageant.

Kiana: As you all know, I butchered a sheep, so I kind of destroyed my old moccasins. They had, like, blood on them and everything, so they were kind enough to replace those. And most of my jewelry is actually, this was my grandpa's.

Kiana: My grandpa made this. My brother made my bracelet. So a lot of the jewelry and the things you see were gifted, and this is kind of how the Navajo people thrive on having heirlooms, because we don't have a family fund or, like I said, an heirloom.

Kiana: We kind of just collect our jewelry over time, and that's kind of our own little thing there. Lakin: Yeah, that was a cool fit check. Kiana: Thank you.

Lakin: But, yeah, like I was saying, I like the burgundy and the pink. Kiana: Yeah, it was actually funny, because during the pageant, I had to prepare multiple outfits, I would say 12 outfits, and I remember, like, towards the end, I was telling my mom, I really need, like, a brown or burgundy outfit, and during the pageant I was gifted this, and she's like, you got your brown outfit. So I think that was really nice, but, yeah, thank you so much.

Kiana: Oh, and I forgot to mention that this bracelet here, I actually made myself, and we made it as, we called it friendship bracelets during the Miss Navajo pageant, so all the contestants got to be able to learn how to silversmith, and so we kind of made matching bracelets, and it just has so much meaning to me. Lakin: Was it difficult learning how to solder? Kiana: It was. It was actually very scary, because you had to have a blowtorch in your hand, and then at the same time melting the metal, and I remember one of the contestants, she's so cute, she was probably one of the youngest, and every time the blowtorch came on, she would, like, scream, like, we would just hear her, ah, and we're like, are you okay? So I, it was an experience learning how to silversmith, and even though my family and my brothers, my uncles, all silversmith, it was really hard for me to learn, but I did it anyway.

Lakin: That's so cool. I hope you keep making jewelry, and I'm excited to see what else you create. Kiana: Yeah, and kind of branching off of that, I am personally a designer, so I make a lot of dresses at the moment, and I kind of just practice my craft, and I would really like to have my own business one day to create not only, like, traditional clothing, but kind of that luxury streetwear clothing for a lot of the youth on the reservation.

Kiana: We don't have a lot of fancy stores around on the reservation to get nice clothes, so I would kind of like to be that outlet for my people, too, in that way. Lakin: You know, I think we'll do a collaboration, because I do fashion design, too. Kiana: That's awesome.

Lakin: So we'll do a fashion show in the Grand Canyon someday. Kiana: Yeah. Lakin: So if y'all want to come to our fashion show, y'all can do that.

Kiana: Yes. Lakin: No, that's cool. I didn't know you made dresses.

Lakin: That's really nice, and like you said, providing the accessibility to these quality clothing, quality garments, like an egalitarian approach, I feel like it kind of calls back to our indigenous cultural system of values, how we perceive everyone as equal, pretty much. And being able to express that through clothing and art is vital when it comes to sustaining that connection. So yeah, thank you.

Kiana: Yeah, of course, and thank you for that input. I think one thing I would like to shed light on is designing within a Navajo culture has a lot of storytelling. It could be just a zigzag like this, and there's a story that could signify rainfall or thunder or a lot of the holy people that kind of lived with us at one time, how they offered back to us as Diné people.

Kiana: And I think that's where I found a lot of inspiration in learning how to design is learning the stories behind it. So thank you for mentioning that, too. Meranden: I think you kind of touched on this a little bit, but I really like to ask, my mom is like my inspiration for everything.

Meranden: She's done so much for us. And I was just curious, like I know you said your mom is your role model. Along with your mom, is there anyone else that you know who really inspired you like in life overall or someone that you really look up to? Kiana: Yeah, I would like to give this acknowledgement to my late auntie.

Kiana: Her name was Alana Tonalina, and she passed away when I was 11. And she actually was in the hospital for a very long time, and she lost her life to pneumonia. So through her journey, she had a disability and many liver transplants.

Kiana: She did a lot for her life up to where she lived. And because of her disability, she couldn't really go to college. She couldn't live on her own.

Kiana: She couldn't do a lot of things, so she kind of stayed on the reservation. And I remember when I was about 9 or 10, she told my family that she wanted to go to college. And this kind of scared my family because she needed help to kind of live.

Kiana: And when she went away to college, she enjoyed her one year there. And she really, really took on those challenges. And from that, seeing that at a young age, I always knew that I wanted to do a lot of these things that I do for her because she couldn't really get around as far as walking and running.

Kiana: So a lot of the things such as athletics and academics and like I said, entrepreneurship comes from that inspiration from my auntie. So yeah, she's the biggest inspiration in my life. And I like to think that I channel a lot of her energy.

Kiana: And a lot of people tell me that they feel her when I'm around. So I just love that idea. Meranden: Yeah, that's really nice to hear.

Kiana; Thank you. Meranden: And then like once again, it's just like the matriarchal side of us really matters and plays a huge part in how we grow up and what inspires us. And I'm glad that that's something that really touches you and that's important to you.

Kiana: Thank you for asking that. Meranden: Yeah, of course. I really like that because once again, my mom is my biggest inspo.

Meranden: And she's literally the reason why I went to college. She's the one, like if there's anything, my only requirement in life for all of you guys, and she said this to all my siblings, is that you go to college. I don't care what else you do.

Meranden: You've got to go to college. So like that kind of just stems something. And I'm just inspired by how much she pushes us and has done so much for us.

Meranden: Yeah. Lakin: So now that we're getting to kind of the end of this program, we'd like to know what does Native American Heritage Month mean to you and why is that important for our people? Kiana: Yeah, so Native American Heritage Month for me means being Diné and being resilient, always finding a way for yourself and paving the path no matter where you come from and how far you've come. Being Native American should be recognized every day because we're always on Native land.

Kiana: And I think that a month doesn't give us enough justice, but I think during November is the perfect time because we look at the winter as our new year, and that's when the big winds start to come and the snowfall starts to arrive. And I think that's a beautiful thing that we celebrate our heritage and our culture during this month because a lot of change and a lot of good things come within these winter months. And to be Diné is to be resilient and to be Navajo from a rural area means to always, always look at your family.

Kiana: I was always told that you don't need anything in this world but family, and I think that should be more emphasized and kind of that cultural connection should be made through family. Meranden: Yeah, I agree, and it's nice that you also mentioned that. Yes, we have this recognition for this month, but it's happening all the time.

Meranden: We have ceremonies in different months, so it's nice that we have this month, but it's also like every day is an indigenous day for us. And in terms of family, I agree on that. I'm a very big family person.

Meranden: I'm the oldest of four younger siblings, so I make sure I take care of them and my mom. It's hard right now because my two sisters are on the East Coast, so they're really far from me. So when we're all together for different ceremonies or holidays, it's really nice.

Meranden: So around this time, maybe a month from now, I'll be with everyone again. So that family part is really important to me, and they always come first, so I agree on that. Kiana: Yeah, and one thing that I would like to kind of acknowledge within the Navajo culture is that we're a very matriarchal culture.

Kiana: We like to hold our women figures and our mother figures at a high level, and that's kind of how we drive our culture, is based on the life of a woman. And because the women are life givers, naturally we always, always give thanks to first women. She's known as a sanaklehe, so that's how I try to live my life and try to remember who I am a descendant of.

Kiana: And I think that all Native youth should really, really learn about their culture and learn about those stories because you are them. Meranden: Yeah, exactly, and I think that's something that I'm really grateful for with being here at the Grand Canyon is that it's made me get closer to my culture and stuff like that. I love learning the different types of stories and the tribes, what they do.

Meranden: So the 11 tribes that we have here at the Grand Canyon, I've been able to learn different words, different ceremonies, what you're supposed to do at certain dances. So I really like that being here has helped me connect to not only my personal culture and tribe, it has brought me to other cultures, so I really enjoy that as well. But I did just want to ask, as we are winding down from this conversation and going to be passing it on to the audience if they have any questions, is there anything you would like to leave the audience with? Kiana: Yes, I would like to tell the audience to always be yourself and don't ever let anyone dictate what makes you happy.

Kiana: Don't ever fret away from your teachings. Always be humble and always strive for happiness because if you lose that path of who you are and knowing what makes you happy, you'll be lost and it'll be hard to come back. Always look at family for help and always, always, always pray.

Kiana: I found a lot of healing in prayer and a lot of self-identity just through talking to the higher being and really learn your culture. And don't be afraid to go against the grain. I think that's one thing that kind of changed my life during this era of running for Miss Navajo was going against the grain and staying who I am.

Kiana: And I think that's what drew a lot of people into knowing what my journey and what my life is like today. So, yeah, that's what I would like to leave the crowd with. Meranden: Yeah, so this is pretty much going to wrap up our Grand Canyon Speaks interview with Kiana today.

. Ranger Jonah: Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music.

Ranger Jonah: This recording reflects the personal, lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the national park. To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov slash GRCA. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon.

Ranger Jonah: These being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo Azuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

In celebration of Native American Heritage Month, we sat down with Kiana Omi Toadlena, a Dine influencer and public figure who was a contestant in the Miss Navajo pageant during 2024. She shares her experience, what inspires her to be a leader and representative of her people as well as what Native American Heritage Month means to her.

Episode 6

Jackson Family Speaks

Transcript

Jackson family transcript

Tracie: I don't want to be highlighted as this like, one of only, you know, indigenous people in footwear design. I want to be with my community. I want to be designing all of this stuff with an indigenous design team.

Maryetta: More traditionally, you know, Grand Canyon has always been a sacred place for everyone. You know, we have, we have indigenous people living in the canyon. Who knows the way of the canyon.

Henry: And she used to weave a train because my dad used to work on the railroad. And then she used to make picture rugs. So a lot of my overlays are copied from that.

Noah: I'm very proud to be part of the Jackson family.

Meranden: Hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Grand Canyon Speaks! This is Meranden

Lakin: And this is Lakin.

Meranden: In today's episode, we get to hear from the Jackson family. Yeah, they share the different crafts they practice, such as silversmithing and footwear design, all of which is inspired by their Diné culture.

Meranden: It's really cool because this was actually our first Grand Canyon Speaks episode recording that we got to see and be a part of as interns. Lakin: It was also raining this day, so you can hear thunder in the background. Meranden: Thank you so much for checking out this episode.

We hope you enjoy. Tracie: Yá'át'ééh. Shi eí Tracy Jackson yinishyé. Tsi’naajinii nishłį́ . Bilagáana bashishchiin.

Kiyaa’áanii dashicheii dóó Bilagáana dashinalí. On my grandma's side, we're from (Navajo word) area on the rez.

And on my cheii's side, we're from Teesto area as well. Hello, my name is Tracie and I just introduced myself in my Diné language and just said who I am and where I'm from.

Maryetta: My name is Maryetta Jackson.

Tracy is my granddaughter here. My clan is Tsi’naajinii nishłį́ . Tábąąha bashishchiin.

Táchii’nii dashicheii . dóó Tsé Ńjíkiní dashinalí . So that's my clan.

And I live in Flagstaff. I was relocated over there, but originally off the reservation is Star Mountain. Tsotsila is where I'm originally from.

Henry: Shi yáa Henry Jackson yinishyé. Kinyaa’áanii nishłį́. Áshįįhí bashishchiin. Táchii’nii dashinalí. Tótsohnii dashicheii. Ádóó (Speaks Navajo) East of Teesto Ádóó.

Noah: And then my name is Noah Kaminsky.

My clans are the exact same as my cousin's sister, Tracie Jackson, just to save some time. And I live with my grandparents in Flagstaff, learning the family business of making jewelry and everything that goes into it. I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona, a couple hours south in the hot valley of the sun.

It's nice to be in the mountains where it's cooler. Ranger Annie: And so since we're here, why is Grand Canyon important to you? Tracie: Good question. I think since I've moved away from home, when I first went to college, I was first generation in our family to go to college.

And when I told people I was from Arizona, I remember a lot of people from other states in California and the East Coast would ask me if I visit the Grand Canyon every time I go home. I thought that was kind of funny because I never thought of it like that. And then, you know, I started kind of thinking more as I've away from home for 10 years now.

And I think hearing that it's because we do have a special place in our home state and on our homelands on the rez. And the Grand Canyon is a very spectacular place. And, you know, thinking about our relationship, especially the communities here, all the different tribes here in the area, it is such a sacred place where we go and pick medicines.

It's where we do ceremony. It's where people have traditionally met and had homelands and I think that's what's so beautiful about it is that we're literally looking at where our, you know, ancestors from generations prior to us have walked on before. And, you know, not a lot of people get to say that they can go back to where their families are originally from or even where their ancestors or the communities have traveled.

And I think that's something that's so beautiful is that, you know, we just go up north or we just look out in the distance and we see what is and has historically always been part of our community. Maryetta: Tracy, my granddaughter, she basically covered everything. And with us, you know, more traditionally, you know, Grand Canyon has always been a sacred place for everyone.

You know, we have Indigenous people living in the canyon. Who knows the way of the canyon, how it, you know, feeds them and treats them. And so it's, and with us living so close to the canyon, it is a sacred spot for a lot of us that are Indigenous to this area.

And like Tracy said, we do give an offering and thank it for the nourishment that it provides for the whole community in the area. And so it's one of our magnificent sites to see because it's nature. So, and it's, to me, it's just right our back door and we can step out the back door and look at what we have.

I'm very grateful for that. Lakin: So, I have questions for all of you. I'll start with you, Tracie, So, what got you into creating the footwear or designing it to begin with? They do silver work, so how did you get into that? Tracie: Yeah, well, I've always loved sneakers and shoes and I don't know, it's just always been something that I grew up with. I grew up in the 90s, 2000s and, you know, sneaker culture was really big during those decades. And I'm a huge, I was a basketball player, so I think that's what also helped get me into it is the Jordan 3s.

Like Jordan 3s were my favorite shoe of all time. And I remember, you know, living in Flagstaff and going to Foot Locker at the mall. You know, I couldn't buy them at the time, but like I would just go window shopping and just look at these shoes.

And, you know, to me it was just something cool and different that, you know, we've never really had access to in the industry wise. I mean, moccasin making, my grandma's dad, her father was a moccasin maker. And I remember when I got my first pair of moccasins made for me by a Hopi man for my Kinaaldá ceremony and I went to his, you know, his village, we went to his house and he hand drew it specifically to the size of my feet. And I still have those moccasins and I'll be honest, my feet haven't grown too big, but like they still fit. And I think to me that was something that was really cool to see is like almost, again, when I talk about these two worlds of like, almost I'm just walking in between now of, you know, I loved moccasins.

We always wore it for ceremony, but then I would play with these really different types of shoes on the court and, you know, go to school in Air Force Ones. And, but it was like really cool to see like us really break barriers in the sneaker world. And I think that's where like, I would go to the Lori Piestewa tournament and see all those really cool sneakers that kids would be wearing in the games.

And some of those were sold for like $600, like resell for crazy amount of prices, but they still wore them regardless because they were showing them off and it made them look cool. And what really specifically made me go into sneakers and footwear was looking, I was playing at the Lori Piestewa basketball tournament and I had seen the N7 logo there on a drawstring bag. And for me personally, I had never seen native culture with Nike and sport culture.

And that was something to me that inspired me as a kid. And, you know, something I never thought of was like, "Hey, I could be a designer at Nike and make some cool native stuff?" And, you know, it was just something I never thought of that never connected the two because coming from the Southwest, you know, we're taught to be some of the, you know, most renowned artistries and artists in our community, but I never thought of breaking artwork into non-native design that would be sold at other companies.

And I think that's where for me, my interest started to go. And my older brother went to the University of Oregon, which I followed and funny enough, Nike was created by students at the University of Oregon. And so I actually went through the product design program and I was the first native person to go through the program.

And when I did, I asked them when I got their first day of school, I was like, what do I have to do to design a Nike? And then that's where they said product design. So it was really interesting because I felt like I kind of fell into footwear in a way. I didn't really know where I was going.

I thought footwear was cool. I thought, you know, sportswear was really cool. I was an athlete and I just wanted to continue to pursue that type of design work.

And then, you know, when I got my internship at Nike, that's actually where I got to design apparel. I didn't really touch footwear as much, but I did graphics for the brand. And I came from a graphic design background where, you know, my grandparents are silversmiths, my great grandmothers are rug weavers.

And for me, I'm just kind of an eat all of above type person where I did painting. I want to tap into everything that they do so I can be more well-rounded and also come from different perspectives and learn. And when I was interning there, I did this collection.

My first collection was actually designing a collection for Taboo from Black Eyed Peas. And, you know, since then it was always been my brother and I will always look back at him as thanking him for, you know, helping me get to where I was. But that's where I started doing that work.

And then I did get hired as a graphic designer full time. And it wasn't until about two and a half to three years into my career that I actually got promoted to footwear design. And the reason why I was promoted to footwear design was because of the way that I approached design in general.

And I think it was because of my grandparents and my great grandma and the way they taught me how to design rug weaving specifically. Before my great grandma passed, we used, we worked on a rug and she talked about, she talked about the importance of putting intention and meaning into everything that you do and everything you make. Because as a designer, you're putting a lot of stories, you're putting power into these things.

That's why people, you know, that's why chief blankets are the way they do is because of the protection that we're putting into there that will protect the individual that wears it. It goes beyond than just wearing an item of clothes. It's an extension of your body.

And I think that's where, you know, learning that color has a story, the graphics, you know, the symbols have a story, the material has a story, and then the full composition together, it tells a full story. And that's how I was taught to design was everything is intentional. Everything's there for a reason. And if it doesn't serve a purpose, then it's not going to be in there because it doesn't serve the purpose. And so it's being very intentional and mindful about how you go about design. And that's how I've always approached it is looking at this as a very special piece.

I took a class and I asked the instructor. He was an instructor who taught this really famous school in Milan for footwear. It's renowned, one of the best schools in the world. And I was very privileged enough to get into the class and take it. So I asked my professor, what is the hardest class that you guys teach? And they responded with moccasin making. And it just kind of took me back because I thought, why would I learn moccasin making from an old Italian guy who has no tie to our community? And it just kind of made me think like, you know, we are experts in these ways more than what we think.

We're just not being in these rooms. We're not, you know, part of these conversations. And so that was one of the reasons why I decided to leave my big company and invest all of my learnings that I have learned the past six years in the industry from high-end fashion runway to athletic design, designing for, you know, I'll be honest, like I designed for a very famous athlete.

And, you know, those experiences I'm very thankful for and had the privilege to attain. And so that's why I actually wanted to completely change my route and go into a complete direction where I'm investing all this knowledge and experience back into the indigenous community, back into an indigenous company where I can give native youth and mentor them to help them learn indigenous footwear at a different way, at a different level platform. And that's something that I'm trying to do because I'm one of the only women, indigenous women in the world that's a footwear designer.

There's only me and Duane who are the only indigenous people that we know in the industry doing this work. And I think in Western society, they look at that as like when you're at the top and you're alone, that's like success. But for me, to me, that's lonely.

And that's not how society is supposed to be. We should be collectively together. And so for me, I don't want to be highlighted as this like one of only, you know, indigenous people in footwear design.

I want to be with my community. I want to be designing all of this stuff with an indigenous design team. I want to mentor them, give them the skills that they can to make their own footwear by hand.

And, you know, we're all sneakerheads in some type of degree. We love shoes. And I think that's the beauty of it, is that moccasin making is a traditional form of our culture.

Maryetta: With our jewelry, you know, it's just Henry and I. And we started way back in the 70s when we first started making jewelry. And I mean, silver is actually, you know, found in the ground as well. And that's what we work with, and gold, and copper.

Those are the materials that we work with. And we, you know, we don't bring anything else into it, just the natural stones that we use. And so we don't use any synthetics in our jewelry.

We show you the stone of what we work with. And it's not, we don't commercialize it. It's a personal thing that we developed, that we were self-taught.

We didn't have anybody teaching us what we should do and how we should make this. We basically learned the art of trial and errors. I had an uncle that taught jewelry making in Santa Fe.

But he was in Santa Fe, we were in Flagstaff. And with that, we went our separate, you know, way of making our own pieces. And everything we do by hand.

We don't use any machine cast items at all. And we do tell our story of how we make our pieces. When we first started making this piece, we call it our leaf design.

And when Henry designed that, it's the little tiny scroll work that he did, and the little drops that he put in there, and the leaves, and we hand cut all those. And that was to represent growth, you know. The vines that you see, that's what the scroll work was.

And the leaves is the leaf from that vine. And then the little tiny drops was the dew drops off the plant. So we incorporated that.

And to this day, we still use that design. And some people call it feather, but the traditional design that we came up with was our leaf design. And we continue to work with it that way.

And we don't use any cast leaves at all. We hand make everything. So that's how we started our foundation of our jewelry making.

Noah: I want to add just what my grandmother said, because she does a lot of jewelry too. She actually had a dream, which led her to make a new creation of one of the pieces that she's been doing for many years, which is her five-strand necklaces. And she actually incorporates stories into them.

So each bead has to be the exact same size. Otherwise, it throws off the whole pattern, since there's six patterns total in the necklace. And she incorporates usually the wedding basket, the four sacred mountains that surround our reservation, sometimes the morning star.

And it's really cool, because it's really nice to educate people whenever they ask about pieces like that. Because with that particular one piece, we get to tell them three different stories about what we use in our traditions and ceremonies, from babies first laugh, all the way to wedding. And even telling them about our reservation and the four sacred mountains that we call home.

And a lot of our pieces are like that, because we're a bear clan. So we have and incorporate a lot of different bears and bear paws. Even with our overlays, we have lots of different designs.

Most of them have the elements, like geometric patterns and whatnot. But they all go back to traditional stories that we've always been told and passed down from generation to generation.

Henry: I'd like to say something. All my artwork is from my family and from my relatives. Like rug weaving, you have design, like water design. And they have, like my mom used to make a rug out of wool, and she used to weave a train, because my dad used to work on the railroad.

So she used to make train, and then she used to make a picture rugs. So a lot of my overlays are copied from that, like the water design, symmetric design. And then the leaf design, I do like what my wife said, it's from a plant.

You know how you plant something, and then where the corn grows or the watermelon, and then you'll have these drops on it. And then the vines, you know how they curl up, that's what I used to do my design. And one of my friends that I used to work with, we used to sit down and talk about what we're doing.

And I was looking at another guy, he's real famous for doing reticulation, and I like his design. So I start changing some of my overlays like that to that design. So it came out really nice.

Ranger Melissa: We've got it rolling. Anything else y'all want? Do you guys want to say anything? Tracie: If you want to work with us in footwear, if you want to work with me in footwear, want to help any programs or anything it might be, I'm a resource here to help. I want to be here as much as I can to help anybody who would like to learn more, would like to understand the industry more, because I want to make myself available for anyone who might want to go in this route, who might be interested.

I'm happy to talk to you and happy to work with your indigenous programs or such. I do do talks through universities, through classes to help share my story and share that this stuff does exist elsewhere. And there are opportunities outside of our communities to do design in such remarkable ways and impactful ways in big companies as well.

So with my personal experience, I'm here. Please reach out or anything, and I'm happy to be there for you guys to help.

Noah: And then for my closing statement, I just kind of want to bounce off my sister.

You can see my sister and my grandparents have a lot of knowledge based on the culture. And since I grew up in Phoenix, I didn't learn much of that unfortunately. So I consider myself a reconnecting Native American, also known as an urban native.

But I always didn't, I never thought I would end up making jewelry, but I'm glad that I did. But being in Flagstaff has really helped me reconnect with my culture and my family. And I think it's just, you know, just being so close to home, you know, and learning all the stories that I wasn't told as a kid growing up, or even having the same experiences on the reservation, or even at like powwows, or even swap meets, or any kind of family gatherings where there's lots of natives.

So that's why I am very grateful, you know, to be part of this family, learning everything that, you know, came before me, and you know, hopefully passing it on just like they have as well. And you know, I'm still learning from my grandparents, but with my sister traveling all over, I can't wait to learn from her too when she does come back home, because we always talk about stuff like this, you know, and that's how we always like to incorporate it, because she's off all over the world learning from every single tribe, which is great. Well, I'm just reconnecting with our own tribe.

And you know, the fact that she can connect with everyone, you know, and have a conversation with anyone really shows how connected of people we are, because you know, we always want the best for everyone, no matter what it is. And a lot of people think, you know, we have generational trauma, where we hold on to the past, and you know, we're always angry, but we only do that to educate people, you know, because like I said earlier, people think we're extinct, and we'd rather educate you, and tell you what happened, than have you, you know, stay clueless and anonymous of the situation. We're indigenous, we're Native Americans, we're Diné, you know, there's everyone, everyone has their own preference when it comes to their tribe.

And you know, I think it's important, especially for reconnecting Natives, you know, to go and follow influencers, just like my sister, you know, who go and represent communities and build them up. So I'm very proud to be part of the Jackson family. Tracie: Beautiful.

Noah: That's my mic drop. Tracie: Well, thanks to you for having us. It's honestly incredible to share stories and be able to have a platform to tell these things, so that others can relate, you know, because that's where for me, I mean, I still, like, regardless of growing on and off the res, and growing up traditionally, I mean, I still see myself as, you know, I'm still learning stories that have historically been taken away from my grandparents through boarding school and such, and you know, we are to a degree all still connecting back to traditions and that pre-colonial world still, and so I think that's what I've learned as I've traveled to different communities, different countries, is that, you know, we're all working hard to basically, like, you know, deal with colonization and such, and I think to Noah's point, like, I'm very thankful that I can be there as a resource to help you also feel proud enough to show, you know, and get back into the culture, because it's hard, and it can be scary for a lot of our relatives to reconnect, and you know, I just want to make sure that, you know, I can be there to help you reconnect in the right way.

Noah: Always.

Ranger Annie: Thank you. Noah: That was fun.

Tracie: Thank you. Please let us know if you need anything else. You know, this is just the first encounter, like, now we're a community.

Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov forward slash grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

In this episode, the Desert View team got to speak with the Jackson family about their artistry which consists of silversmithing and moccasin making. We get to hear about fun experiences such as famous collaborations, the impact of their grandmother’s weaving, and how their Diné culture heavily inspires their creative journeys.

Episode 7

Cory Ahownewa Speaks

Transcript

Cory Ahownewa: So, for me to see that those kids are dealing with all their hardships and all that. For my second trip, when I got picked to go again, I made prayer feathers for all them kids, because they didn't choose to be brought into this world like that, with all the hardship. And they're the strongest people for our human race.

Lakin: Welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

Meranden: And this is Meranden.

Lakin: In this episode, Ranger Dan sat down with Cory Ahownewa, who is a Kachina doll carver and advocate for sustaining Hopi culture, traditions, and knowledge.

Meranden: Yeah, through his work with the Hopi Cultural Preservation Program, he's been able to sustain traditional connections to the Grand Canyon.

Lakin: Cory continues to work on river trips in the Grand Canyon, not only with Hopi, but also other programs from various tribes that call the Grand Canyon home.

Meranden: He also shared moments in his life that have shaped him into the leader, artist, and father he is today.

Lakin: So, take a listen and we hope you enjoy this episode.

Cory: Hello. Good evening there. Welcome to the Grand Canyon Watchtower [Desert View]. This will be my third year here, and I would like to give thanks to Dan and all the people that put together this program. And it's a pretty great program. It's first year for my wife, and it's a great opportunity for the people to get to know the Grand Canyon from the bottom all the way up to the top. And for the Hopi, we have ancestral ties here with the Grand Canyon.

Cory: And I always wanted to bring my wife here after I did my first trip. And for her to come up here and to come to the edge and get to experience that, where she came from, and to feel that in her heart, she gets to know that this is where we, our ancestral ties are from. Yeah, and this will, I've done four trips so far, and three were with the Hopi Cultural Preservation.

Cory: And just last Friday, I was able to get with the company in Flagstaff, Ceiba, and they hired me for the first year this year. So I was able to become a swamper for them, and I lucked out and got on a Cultural Preservation trip with the Yavapai. Yavapai, they live probably like three hours down more, but they still have ancestral ties with this area.

Cory: And theirs is from National [Park] all the way down to Diamond Creek, and that's their ancestral land that way. And Hopi is from the Little Colorado River, or majority of it is from the Four Corners region all the way up past Page, all the way down this way. And the Badger Clan, my clan, they once, when we came up from below the Grand Canyon, and we came up and we formed clans, and that's when the Badger Clan, they went as far as Mesa Verde.

Cory: And after that, they went to Old Oraibi, and that's when they formed the villages there. And they decided that area, the Hopi Reservation, was a good source of dry farming with all the sand that they had over there. Yeah, so thank you everybody for coming, and this is a great experience to finally to get able to start speaking to larger crowds, and it helps me to get a little better with my talking and stuff, because I'm slowly trying to work on going to the high school, or to the elementary schools, talking to the youth, and on up, and giving them the teachings of all this area, and that Hopis have all this, our ancestors chose this area because it's all rich of all these resources for us to do our ceremonies, and I always crack up when we were doing our river trips.

Cory: We were once fishermen, and we lived right down there, right next to the side of the canyon, all the way from the granaries, all the way, even Nankoweap down here. I always wonder why is it called like a different tribal name, Nankoweap, but to me, what it kind of slowly showing itself, like the people that left last, I think that's what they were trying to pertain to, they followed us, they were the last people, the last of the Hopi people that were down here. This was inhabited at the same time as Old Oraibi, and they had pottery, the archaeologists took studies of the pottery from both areas, and they noticed that there was Hopi pottery that was being brought from down here, and from down here was other pottery that was brought to the Hopi reservation at that same time in the early 1900s.

Cory: So, on each trip, I slowly get more and more knowledge of the Hopi ties to this area. Yeah, and we leave from Lee's Ferry all the way to Diamond Creek, that's 226 miles, 10-day river trips, and those are pretty harsh conditions on monsoon, and people will be coming back all black, all tired. The last two, three days, people will be so tired, they'll be trying to stay in the shade.

Cory: Even on the second to the last day, it was 114[°F] in the shade, that was almost by Diamond Creek, or Diamond, yeah, on the takeout. And just this past trip, we ran into the Yavapai, cultural, the youth trip, and they were all so tired, they almost ran out of gas, and then we had to siphon them gas, and they tried to do a dry run without pop down there for the youth group, so they were starting getting mad at each other and having fits and stuff, so we gave them pop and all that stuff. Instead of being in the front, I was in the back, doing my work, taking care of all the, we had 17 members of the Hualapai tribe, and it was a new experience for me to get hands-on experience on how they do their cultural preservation trips.

Cory: So I waited for a while, and then I finally walked up to where they were doing their ceremonies and stuff at Deer Creek Falls, I was waiting there for a minute, then I let them do their ceremony, then I walked up, then they were doing smudging, and the guy that runs that was running that, I didn't know all this time, and he was one of the founders that helped started this cultural demonstration, his name is Bennett Wakayuta, and that was a good thing to experience to meet that guy too, and knowing that he has, his dad is Hopi, and those four other people, they also had Hopi affiliations with them too, so getting to meet them and learning their cultural background and all that stuff, I was pretty amazed that even though we're way up here, we still have ancestral ties with that tribe down there, I was like wow, that was pretty awesome to meet a whole other group of pretty much my cousins, I would say, from down that way.

Cory: Yeah, so it was a pretty good experience, and this coming September I'll be, we'll be taking down the Zuni for their cultural trip, and we'll be doing five days from right below here all the way to the LCR, we'll all be on this side, we'll be doing five days of cultural preservation, of learning more of our ancestral ties down in the canyon. Yeah, so thank you for all of you guys showing up and getting to get our background, cultural background, and on my first trip.

Cory: I was barely on my second year of sobriety, after having my wife have my boy, it changed my life, I grew up into an alcoholic family, and my mother and my father are still real bad at it, and from 6th grade all the way to the age of 32, I was an alcoholic real bad, then I had my son when I was 30, or my wife had my son at 32, then after that, two years went by and it happened so my brother, my clan brother, he was running the cultural preservation office, his name is Stuart Keiwakotua, my clan brother, then he came up to me one day and “Heard good things about you, I was wondering if you would be interested in doing this cultural preservation trip, where you go down the canyon and the Glen Canyon Dam, they're the ones that fund the project for four to five tribes that come down and they make sure that the river runners don't stop at these sacred sites down there within the canyon, and they don't mess it up or alter anything that's within these sacred areas.”

Cory: So. I was all like, “oh okay, I'm interested.” So, on that first trip, my boy was probably 5 then, now he turned 8 on the 18th of this month, so on that first trip, I went for my son, because we didn't know when he was going to have open heart surgery, and he has two different areas that are leaking in his valves, so I came down, stopped at the sacred areas, prayed for my boy for a strong recovery, got down to Diamond Creek, came out, got home, not even a week later, the heart specialist called and asked when we wanted to do the surgery down in Phoenix at the Phoenix Children's Hospital, so I was like, oh okay, right now, because I already stopped at all these sites and I already prayed for our boy, so we went down that Monday morning, 6 in the morning, he did his surgery, recovery, and in the evening time, they put him up in the upstairs, Tuesday morning he was already walking with his IV bag in the recovery area, and the sad thing about it, in the recovery area, there was like 20 plus kids all in there, and me and my wife and my boy, we walked all the way around that thing, and what I noticed, there was no mother and father with their kids there, and that 5 days that we stayed there, none of the parents stayed there like how we did, we slept in the room, we were determined for my son to get.

Cory: So that Friday, he was already released, so for me to see that those kids and dealing with all their hardships and all that, for my second trip when I got picked to go again, I made prayer feathers for all them kids, because they didn't choose to be brought into this world like that with all the hardships and stuff, and they're the strongest people in our, for our human race, the youth, so I made prayer feathers on my second trip, went down, prayed, came back out, and right when we got out, all the clouds came and it just started pouring, so just things like that, it shows itself, nature, it shows itself when you're strong in your heart and you pray a lot, and then it'll show itself, the clouds. Yeah, and the third trip, I went down again, and I was sitting there, we had to, for the Hopis, it's really, we try and stress that we talk Hopi amongst each other every time when we stop at these places, so we have to talk in our language, and every evening we sit there and talk, by the time we get done, it'll be 8 o'clock at night.

Cory: Then you'll just be seeing all the stars within the canyon showing themselves to you, then we got down to the shelves, past the gorge, we got way past down that way, then we're smoking that evening, our tobacco, smoking that evening, next thing you know, there was an anthill right here by me, and they started coming out, and they started talking to me, and they were telling me that all our ancestors are all okay, because in our, the Hopis believe the place you came out from, the emergence area, you're still going to come back over there in your afterlife, and this is your journey, you head back down to where you came from, so even the animal, the ants, even all the way down to the ants and animals and what you see within the canyon, they talk to you, and let you know that we're not here alone, and give thanks for being here, and like what I do, I do the Kachina doll carving, traditional style, and I use all the elements from the earth, and for me to use all this stuff that mother nature gave us.

Cory: I still got to go back to the Kiva and partake in my ceremonies each year, and give thanks for mother earth providing all this stuff for the Hopis, in order for us to do our ceremonies each year, so it's a learning process every year, and I learn more and more as I go down, and yeah, it's a place that changes lives, not only mine, and even the lady, the boatman, even she stood, that evening, we had a gathering in the evening, that one night, even she kind of broke down, and she was, her kids are in the late 20s and stuff, they live in Maine, and they always wonder why she don't really want to go back up to where she lives at, but her calling is here, in the Grand Canyon, to be a river runner, and to take us on our cultural preservation trips, and to learn more about herself too, and know that we're not here alone, and we got to take care of mother nature as much as we can, yeah, but thank you guys, thank you a lot.

Ranger Dan: The canyon's home, the canyon is home—and it's home to Hopi, it's home to Zuni, it's home to all.

Cory: Yeah, all the tribes that are in the southwest region, we all have ties to this area.

Ranger Dan: But it calls in more, it calls in more people, so personally, when I came back here in 2021, I came from Carlsbad, back to the canyon, after being here as a seasonal in 2016 and 17, and I felt this, this ease, lifted off my shoulders, coming back to a place that has only felt like home, after leaving home in Minnesota, and so this is, it brings in more than just, more than just the people who have been here since time immemorial, it brings in the boatman that is doing good work now, but also Hopi is home, that's where your house is, and all these experiences that you're gaining, you're able to bring them back to Hopi, right?

Cory: Yep, yep, and slowly talk to the younger youth, and maybe one day they can choose this type of work, and more people can, the natives can become rangers, and all that stuff, can work in this kind of field, archaeology, and boatman, and accounting for us, all that stuff.

Ranger Dan: Absolutely, absolutely, I know it's tough, there's a lot of, there's a lot of barriers, like in the federal government, even for just anybody getting in, and we're trying to, trying to knock those walls down, especially for the people that know this landscape, that grew up in this landscape, and yeah, we're definitely trying to help get those folks that should be in these positions, in these positions, and with you being here, with the demonstration program, you're helping punch through, and get the word out for everybody as well, which is amazing.

Cory: Yeah, that's how, I seen this guy, his name's Sterling, he was on the river trip, and he does gourds, and I was looking at them, and I was all like, wow, he has nice flower patterns on there, and it shows different kind of scenes, and he, not even only that, he does photography, and he draws a lot, and I was all like, “You're not in the cultural, the cultural demonstration [program]?” he's all. “No,” so he's interesting being a part of this too.

Ranger Dan: You've had many rich experiences going down the river, and every time I see you now, like, you got a new river story to tell, which is, which is amazing, it's, it's, I get to see you grow at the same time, and go through this place, and it's only been three years, but it's, it's been an amazing three years.

Cory: Yeah, yeah, and, and like that, I learned just from this last trip, not to have my phone out in the open, yeah, because I was, like that, I was being the swamper and stuff, I had my phone right there, and at first, I kept putting it in my pocket, because sitting in the backseat, I would have it on this side, then the water would splash up on me, so I put it back on this side, but then I keep changing the song, so I would put it, I put it on top of the ammo box, then I forgot my stake, to stake down, and for us to tie off, when there's no rock to tie off to, so that, Bennett, we're like, this is, we got your stake, then I just jumped up, and I was gonna ride, walk on the side, the side tube, and start walking up to the front, to the bow, so right when I got up, I started running, and my phone just slipped out, and went into the river, oh no, I was gonna jump for it, but it's right before the LCR, and I was like, no, I better not, then, like they say, they all laughed at me, the river takes, and the river gives, it's all like, you know, that's the truth, that's the truth right there, yeah, so it's really amazing, that's true.

Ranger Dan: For those who don't know, LCR is Little Colorado River over here, where it comes in to the Colorado River, and it's a very important place for the, for the people of Call Canyon Home, and the boats that you're talking about, if you're ever out in the rim here, everybody, and you look down, and you see this thing, that's the size of an ant, going down the river, that could be a 30 foot long boat, that Cory has worked on like this year, and been a part of, and that has a motor attached to the back of it, so it's one of the best ways to get yourself introduced to the river, because you're not getting punched by the waves as much, because it's 30 feet of boat, but you can still ride the front, and hold on, and like, sockdolager, down in the gorge, sockdolager is where you get socked, that's the origin, it's a, it's a European word, and it's where you get socked in the face, and it will hit you hard, yeah. What,

Cory: Rubber, rubber, all rubber, yeah, yeah, fill it up, yeah, fill it up with air.

Ranger Dan: yep, yeah, these boats are 30 feet long, they come in sections, they got metal plates on them to, to give some rigidity in certain areas, but no matter, depending on where you are, you get a wild ride, you get a comfy ride, yeah, in the back, but you're always going to get wet

Cory: Yep, yep, yeah, yeah

Audience Member: You don’t need to go to Disneyland or Disneyworld!

Ranger Dan: This is, this is way better than Disneyland, yeah, or any of that.

Cory: Yeah, if you're able to hack it in the front, and you can not back out anytime, and you hack it all the way to Lava Creek, Lava Creek Falls, you can handle any kind of roller coaster ride, I would think so, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and there was one, this, on this trip, and there's this place called Bed Rock, it's a rapid too, and the, the boatman, he flipped his boat backwards, and he shot down into that rapid, then right before we're gonna hit that Bed Rock, there's a big old rock right here, it's right in the middle of the river, and there's one little side right here, and there's a bigger side on this side, so he went in backwards, and right then, and that wave hit us from the side, then he used all that front weight, and it just shot him this way, and they just shot back down, boom, and that was cool, I was like, wow, I never seen that done before, so you learn all these different techniques that the boatman have too, when you're able to be sitting in the back with them, and yeah.

Ranger Dan: It sounds like you got the river bug, Cory, yeah, yeah, it grabs hold, yeah.

Cory: I got that calling, it's a calling that, yeah, I guess you gotta make use of what you know, I mean, like, I mean, if you can catch on real quick, and like that, I heard from another guy a while back, like three years ago, that Hopis can easily catch on to something real quick, you gotta just watch somebody do it a couple times, then after that, you'll catch on to, I mean, it's like that through life with everybody, you gotta watch it, watch them catch on, and learn, learn the easy way instead of the hard way, yeah, so, yeah, thanks guys for coming in, and this was a great opportunity to be able to talk to everybody, and get on, not just only on my carving stuff, but the canyon, and all that.

Ranger Dan: Yeah, it's an absolute pleasure having you out here, Cory, Gloria, it's an absolute pleasure having you out here, too, Riley, always great to see you, dude, yeah, and a bit of his artwork is now on display at their table, showing what, what he's getting into here, so, yeah, we got a whole family of artists here, and I know we got many times in the future to have you out, and new experiences to go along with that in the future, I believe that was a peregrine [falcon] that just went over us here, yeah, so that's beautiful, and you know, I would like to end on one more thing here, Cory, your shirt, this is a great shirt that you get to see around the Flagstaff Four Corners area, and can you explain what 'Don't Worry, Be Hopi' is?

Cory: 'Don't Worry, Be Hopi' is like Hopis, we just don't pray for ourselves, we pray for the whole world, and we're all one human, humankind as one, and we're, we were brought to this earth by the Creator, and we should also take care of the place that we are led into, so that's what 'Don't Worry, Be Hopi' means, it's also you can pray and be one of us too, as Hopi, and the guy that created this, he no longer has his shop on the reservation, he retired now, and when I started my career when I was 15 years old, all the way to like that, 32, he helped get my artwork out there to the world, so after that, then he retired, so I worked out a deal with him to buy so much shirts, then I can be able to sell shirts, and help him out now, since he helped me out for 20 plus years, so yeah, if you're interested, I have these shirts also for sale, different colors, medium and large, and couple 2x left, yeah, so that's the Don't Worry, Be Hopi.

Ranger Dan: They're pretty great, yeah, Be Hopi, yeah, so thank you very much everybody for coming out here tonight, experiencing Grand Canyon with Cory, and everyone else here, if, do you mind a couple questions at all Cory?

Cory: Yeah, yeah, I can take some questions from whoever would. Yes.

Audience Member 1: Just wondering how the kachina dolls fit into the Hopi life, what do you use them for?

Cory: Oh yeah, they're given to the girls at birth, and when the Hopis started doing the kachina dances, they decided that gifts should be exchanged also, so that, that's what they, the kachinas would bring for the girls, their gifts to the girls at birth, the kachina dolls, and they depict all different elements of the, of the world, all the way from the animals, to the, to the clouds, to different plants, yeah, yeah, and that's the kachina.

Audience Member 2: Yeah, you said on your rafting trips, you would stop at sacred sites, roughly how many are on the trip?

Cory: On the Hopi one, we do nine, nine, yeah, and yeah, and majority of them are from the Little Colorado, Spider Woman, Spider Grandmother, and the Hopi Salt Mine, that's right around the bend, and Ankar down here, that's a, what's a village down below, and they, they did farming down below, and the greenery a little ways down.

Ranger Dan: So we have a special guest speaker here, we got Riley, Cory's son coming up here, and we might need to, let's pass a mic here Cory, to Riley, we're, what are we learning about Riley?

Riley: The Hopi Racer Kachina.

Riley: That races against young kids, and people, like men, they race them, like to get like cookies, fruits, uh, gifts, yeah, gifts.

Cory: The racer Kachina challenges them.

Riley: Yeah, whoever gets them, have the, um, uh, snacks, or sometimes there's a chili one too, which is chili one, so, so you're gonna have to race, then if you got, get caught, then, then, um, the, the chili Kachina then goes like this to your face, then covers, covers it in chili, so you're gonna have to wash it off, yeah, and you're gonna have to be fast.

Ranger Dan: Have you raced the Racer Kachina yet?

Riley: No.

Ranger Dan: No?

Riley: Well, I never did.

Cory: Okay.

Audience Member 3: When are you gonna race it?

Ranger Dan: Yeah, when, when do we think we're going to race them?

Riley: (Speaks Hopi) Which is, “I don't know,” in Hopi.

Ranger Dan: There we go, there we go, yeah, awesome, yeah, thank you Riley, yeah.

Riley: ii iss iiyo. It’s cold.

Ranger Dan: It's cold?

Riley: Yeah.

Ranger Dan: Thank you Riley, yeah, um, does anybody else have a question? Uh, yeah, yeah.

Cory: Oh, the creation of the Grand Canyon, uh, some say that it's a serpent that's shooting down to the Gulf of Mexico, and that's how, and there's Hopi stories that our twins, that Spider Grandmother sent down two twins down to the Gulf of Mexico, and they ended up meeting the Mayans and stuff, and that's where they brought the snake dance from, and that's what the Hopis practiced to this day on the Hopi Reservation, yeah, so this is a snake, it brings us from one end of the continent to the other end, yeah, yeah, so that's what the.

Ranger Dan: Have you seen the geologic map of the Canyon, Cory?

Cory: Yeah.

Ranger Dan: Yeah, the blue dragon?

Cory: Yeah, I've seen that, yeah.

Ranger Dan: Yeah, the geologic map of Grand Canyon, you can get a large poster of it in some gift shops in different areas, it's kind of hard to find now, but it literally, it looks like a serpent, uh, yeah, it is quite interesting to see, so it's, it's really fun to see, like, there's validity to this, yeah, there, there is, it's been passed down,

Cory: Stories, yeah, passed down,

Ranger Dan: But geology is also seeing that too, and it's the two stories coming together.

Cory: Yeah, and there's, and the archaeologists, geologists are slowly seeing it now, but the Hopis already knew this long time ago, this was stories that was passed down generation to generation.

Audience Member: Why did the Hopis move out of the canyon?

Cory: To, to, yeah, to better check out this whole land, the resources that the Southwest had, because they shot all the way down to, um, Phoenix, all the way to Mesa Verde, all the way to Chaco [Canyon], and even this way, they shot, and after that, they formed back at the Hopi Mesas and formed the village, and they noticed that they had all these resources at the Hopi Mesa in order for us to do our ceremonies, so that's when they stuck and started forming clans, and after that, once their clans were formed, each clan has a responsibility for each society, that, um, there's different societies that take part throughout the whole year, and we watch the stars and the moon each time in order for us to do our ceremonies, and it helps us to keep, um, keep alliance with the earth and the rotation, and that's how we try to live by,

yeah, all right, all right, thank you guys for coming.

Ranger Dan: Yeah, this is great. Thank you, Cory.

Ranger Jonah: To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon, these being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

In this episode, Cory Ahownewa, a Hopi Kachina doll carver and an advocate for protecting and sustaining cultural knowledge and sites throughout the Grand Canyon and southwestern region, walks us through moments in his life that have influenced his journey not only as an artist, but as a father and servant of his community.

Episode 8

Daryl Shack Speaks

Transcript

Grand Canyon Speaks - Episode 8 - Daryl Shack Speaks

Daryl Shack: The epiphany came right back because on the table there was coral, turquoise, and pen shell, which is black, and mother of pearl, which is white or real shiny stuff, and so I wrapped it together and, you know, made my bundles, which now today at the Santa Fe shops, they call it the "Shack stack." So that's what I want for everybody through the co-op.

Lakin: Welcome everyone to this week's episode of Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

Meranden: And this is Meranden.

Lakin: In today's episode, Ranger Dan spoke with Daryl Shack, who is a Zuni fetish carver and multifaceted artist.

Meranden: He explains the traditional role that the fetishes play in Zuni culture and the history behind the creation of this sacred art form.

Lakin: Not only is Daryl an artist, but he's also a patron of artists from his community and provides support through efforts such as the Zuni Art Walk.

Meranden: Take a listen to Daryl's story and we hope you enjoy.

Daryl Shack: Keshi ko' don sunhapk'yanapkya. Ho' Daryl Shack le'shinna. Ho' Shiwinna kwin iya do'na ho' da: ko:wi a:wa'shuwakyan iya. Ho' Dowa:kwe deyan Ho' Bitchi:kwe a:wan cha'le. Ho' apde k'yan asdemłan dopbinde yałdo debikwaik'ya kesi. Ho' kets'anna do'na lak'yan a:wunakyan inan do'na Ho' a:wa'shuwakyan iya. Daryl Shack: Hello everybody. My name is Daryl Shack. I'm from the Pueblo of Zuni in New Mexico, and I am a fetish carver. I'm an artist, and I wanted to share that I'm in my clans, which is only very appropriate to share. I'm Corn clan, and I'm born for the Raven clan, so I always like to joke and say I'm liable to maybe eat myself one of these days.

Daryl Shack: I keep things light. You know, life is very interesting for me as a Zuni man, and to have ties here at the Grand Canyon, it's been very interesting to be able to be invited here. And as an artist, it's very opportune, you know, to be able to do that. I'm sharing my work at the tower this year, and I've been here at the visitor center and at North Rim, so I'm very appreciative of the National Park Service for extending and providing this opportunity for communities to come and, you know, bridge ties and bring a better understanding of what we as Native American nations have going on here at the National Park Service and at the Grand Canyon especially.

Ranger Dan: Yeah. Excellent, Daryl. And you mentioned that you're here as a demonstrator and showing your work down here, and I'd love to get a little bit more information about your history as an artist. Daryl Shack: Oh, okay. I think that's a little bit of, I don't know how I could go nonstop as far as history, but we were setting up Art Walk in Zuni, New Mexico in 2016, and we were all trying to figure out leadership, and we were talking about how many years of artistry we have in our background, and so we kind of went around the table. Some said 11 years, 12. Everybody's proud of, you know, their amount of years that they do artistry back home.

Daryl Shack: Some people said 20 years, which is awesome. I had to think about it as it was getting to me. And, you know, when it got to me, I was 44 at the time, so I told them 42 years of artistry, and I wasn't lying.

Daryl Shack: They all freaked out, but I wasn't lying because dancing is a very big part of our history and culture and our artistry now. We have dance troupes that go around and share social dancing, so at a very young age, that's what my dad exposed me to, so I was able to go and travel around and participate, and so I have pictures of myself in full-dress regalia, and so I was already performing back then, so performing artist I was born to.

Daryl Shack: So that went on, and of course, school — once won a contest for a poster for the state of New Mexico, and it was for nighttime safety. I said, "wear white at night for safety," and so my poster won second place, and I won a check for like $80, and so that was pushing to really exposing myself to finding out that art is around, and finally high school, it was all about the art shows and everybody showing how good you can be, and then the real world hits you after high school when you find out whether you're going to decide if you're going to do art or not, but normally, you know, you need a job, and you focus on having that education behind you, and so I'm glad that my parents were able to push that on me, and so that continued, and finally, I worked as a public transportation driver for a bit into the senior program in Zuni, and I brought a lot of art with me there, because, you know, the elders were looking to crochet, looking to, you know, bead work was a big thing there, so it was kind of limited, but when I got there, this vast expanse of, "oh, what can I do, I can do marbling techniques with them, I can do—" you know, my mind went a little haywire there to just try to be, you know, accepted into what our elders might not or would be into, so I got very good at that, and so at this point, I can say that I worked as an activity director for 13 years, and I made people do things that they normally didn't do, but they did it anyway, and they liked it, you know, so that's something that I really bank on, and I'm thankful for that, because administratively it taught me a bit of what I'm able to do today, which is my art, which is fetishes.

Daryl Shack: So back then, at some point, there was a time where I needed to participate culturally at a bigger level, and so it meant that I needed to host the men of my kiva. There's six kivas in our community, and those are like men's fraternities, and, ah, man, it's really difficult to explain this complex situation that I'd gotten into at that younger age, but I had to be initiated into that kachina cult, if you know a little bit about that, but just moving further on, it made me think a little bit more about how these ties were, you know, fueling the need for protecting art, and finding out where I belong, and so fetishes were born right about then, when I needed to supplement my income, and today, just very recently, I was asked, “Do you sit down to think about your art, and is it with intentions that what you're going to make is going to be sold, or going to go somewhere? And I'm like, “by now, yes, because it's art,” but I'm so glad that it's cultural tied, and with that, you know, it's helping me to preserve through talks like this, and just through mimicking what I've seen through my friends who've been dabbling in this fetish work, so fetishes are animals, and they're in rock form, and so that's what I get to do, and carve, and I was sharing that earlier, and I also paint, and what else do I do?

Daryl Shack: I draw, I'm a sketch artist, I can pretty much sketch this in maybe two minutes, real quick, and you know, have fun with it, that's the life I have, I'm appreciative of it, because back home, I am in certain leadership positions, and it's more or less bloodline, and in a sense, there's also positions that, you know, I can't leave home, really, to go live in Boston, where I kind of think about a lot, or San Francisco, I just can't, you know, because my ties are at home, and at home, art is everywhere, you know, people don't realize back home how art is very important, and in these younger generations, we think that art has to be put on a mural, or has to be drawn, or has to, you know, but they don't realize that the pure forms of the silver work that we do, from raw material to the beautifully finished products that I wanted to bring, you know, these are works made by my parents, and worn by my grandma, my dad, and worn by my wife, you know, so, here's my wife, Nina, and so, these are very important things in my life that I try to help protect, now, so, just getting back to what I did before, as the Activist Director, I planned, and I coordinated, and so that helps me today, I help to advocate back home about artistry, and protecting, you know, the genuine, authentic Native American arts name, trademarking people's, and branding people's name, that's what we're helping to do, I'm helping to do that for myself, my wife, different artists in the community who need the help, who want the help, I'm a founding member of what we call Art Walking Zuni, and I'm a founding member of the only Native American jewelry co-op in the U.S., so, we're very proud of that, and I think, well, art has taken me a long way, and look where it got me, right in front of you guys, to come chit-chat a little bit about what art is to us in Zuni, art is life.

Ranger Dan: And actually, one of those things, like, what art is, and you brought it up today, and it's a quote that I actually really enjoy, when we were talking, you said, art is still medicine, and art is, it's deep within Zuni culture, and, like, you're making fetishes today, and it's on an artistic basis, but, it's still medicine, and you talked about that, and also, for those that don't know, like, some of the artifacts we find here in the canyon are fetishes, so, this is something that's deeply rooted inside Zuni culture, and back then, it was medicine given to a person who needed to be saved, and so it's still, to that point today, where that medicine still exists. Can you elaborate upon that medicine existing to this day?

Daryl Shack: Oh, exactly, I think, in light of things, I'm going to put in your minds, you know, our ancestors, you know, what did they have? You know, think back, like, way back, way back in primal days, we all have ancestors that didn't have CAT scans, or MRIs, but, you know, when people were sick, what did they have, this intuition to make them feel better, and to cure them.

Daryl Shack: My people went a little further, and, you know, they asked the animal kingdom for that assistance, their know-how, their characteristics, or just asking for the unknown, you know, for help, and they found that the animals were able to do that, and it takes us back further, even, if I can, to times of creation, when we think about when man and animal were here together, and animal ate man easily, and so they were great beasts, and for assistance, our people asked our creator for, you know, help to come and give these animals, you know, at least some guidance so that they won't eat them, and the creator sent two warrior gods to talk to them, and when they did, the animal kingdom, quite honestly, didn't listen the first time, and so they kept eating man, and so man again asked for help, the warrior gods went back with intentions to at least maybe get some answers, deeply rooted in the traditions, and so those traditions are the lightning bolts of coral and turquoise, so they brought them down and said, hey guys, if you don't listen, yeah, and then, so they went back and still animal ate man, and so they went back down and said, okay, you guys don't listen, here we go, and so they speared their heart up, and it was meant to tame the animal spirit, it was meant to kill them, but to tame them and to let them know that really who's in charge is our creator, and who is asking for this assistance to take care of man, and so from there, the animal kingdom had this respect, because they were told by these warriors that, you know, when man calls upon your hand and your intuitions to help, and they're going to make effigies of you, and that way you won't eat them, but you are that beast, you are that animal, and when they call upon you through prayer and invocation, that you will be there to help them, and so this medicine wasn't just, you know, something to play around with back then, powerful medicine that's meant for our healing fraternities, at some point, you know, it just blossomed into a good thing for everybody that does work with these animals as art, and for me, it's still medicine, that's what I said, because it helps to cure me, helps to cure those that might be alien, might, you know, come to my table or view my page on Facebook and find that it makes them smile.

Daryl Shack: I have vast collectors that feel so much energy from my work, you know, I sit down with a good heart, that's the only thing that I think about, and these are words from our elders to tell us that, you know, have a good heart before you touch Mother Earth, before you work with Mother Earth, and even though it's a rock, it's still Mother Earth, and so a lot of these notions to preserve these, you know, cultural aspects of, you know, really working and focusing this energy that's unbeknownst to us, really, and it may go into my work, and so I do have to feel a good heart, and sometimes when it's not, they break, you know, or sometimes it just takes forever to finish something, and so I take a break, for real, and go focusing on something else, so, energy in the art for Native Americans throughout, I think it can pertain to that same, you know, perspective.

Ranger Dan: Yeah, the energy is with all of us, it's not just the cultures of the Southwest, the people who call the canyon home, it's with everyone who visits, it's with everyone who comes to the canyon, it's with, who visits Zuni, who visits the cultures around here, and it's like what you're talking about, like those good memories and everything.

Daryl Shack: Yeah, I mean, today, like, I spoke with a young lady who had come in and had asked for a turtle, and I didn't have any turtles on my table, but heck, I told her, "I'm honest, I'm fast at carving animals," and then so I said, "come back later, I'll have one for you," so, you know, we had a short conversation about how she's having her daughter move somewhere, and so I told her, we had a Zuni boy that moved to Albuquerque also, and I gave him a turtle as well, and she didn't even, well, she didn't know that part, but when I told her that part, it made everything so special, and at one point, we were both crying, and I think, you know, the connections, the energy's different for everybody, and when you see my animals, you'll feel that, because some make you happy, some is like, oh, some is like, oh, you know, and then when you hear the price, you'll be like, oh, yeah, but then you know what? It's not about price, because I always say this, I'll share with you one story I learned at the Indian market in Santa Fe, which is a huge show, you know, you can expect to pay, some people pay thousands of dollars for pieces over there, right? We've seen a kachina doll go for $13,000 next to our table like that, and we were like, "oh, they're already going home and we're still here."

Daryl Shack: So, but anyways, this young man came up, I had a beautiful sodalite, which is blue, mountain lion sitting up there on my table, and so he comes up, and he looked at it, and looked at his mom, and he looked at it, and it took off. Later on, he comes back, looked at it again, this time picked it up, put it back, and he's there contemplating, looking at his mom, and he looks at me, and looks at his mom again, and you know what? So I told him, "young man, listen, look at what I have to say to you, you know, it's not about the value of money, it's about the value of having things here, you know, when you get this mountain lion, and it goes home with you, you're going to have it for as long as you live, and as long as you don't give it away, it'll be yours, but this money that I'm going to get, I'm going to go spend it, I'm going to pay for my hotel room, maybe, and I'm going to go do this, do this, eat, and there it goes, it's gone."

Daryl Shack: So, you know, that taught him. It's like, took out his money, and bought that piece, and he went home happy, I went home happy for that moment, but then it was time to get back to work. That's my work, you know, that's what I do as an artist, as what I'm here to do, to share, and I'm glad it did, you know, look where it brought me, again, you know, to be able to share this little bit of time with you, and I'm just glad that, you know, the day is so beautiful, who can't enjoy this?

Ranger Dan: Yeah, it's not bad, right? Yeah. The backdrop for this program is the Grand Canyon, like, this is not a bad place at all.

Daryl Shack: Not at all.

Ranger Dan: So, I mean, these are great examples of visitors having interactions, and the medicine's going with them, it's going with them, but we've also talked about the [Zuni ARTZ] Co-op, and this is, I think, something that's really important to touch on, because it's a way for artists to get out into the world more, and spread their love of art and their culture to everyone else, not just in the Four Corners area, but, like, around the world.

Daryl Shack: Yeah, that's a good point, that's a very good point, because I think with Co-op, as a collective, I think it's really made a big difference. We come together as like-minds with different media. I belong to a co-op that has silversmiths, painters, potters, fetish carvers like me, then we have new age, you know, graphic artists that are also involved, we have textiles, so it's really expanded, and generational-wise, it's also really been really good, because we have veterans, we have students that come from a program that we have in Zuni, it's called the Zuni Youth Enrichment Program, and so they work with young children, they do programming which utilizes different types of artistry to make sure that, you know, our children understand the far depths of where artistry reaches.

Daryl Shack: And so we have a beautiful building that they have that ties in with the Co-op, and we got into a beautiful building as well, which took some time, but, you know, with the help of the New Mexico Cooperative Catalyst, we were able to utilize their lawyers, and their, you know, I guess their grassroots programs to be able to go and get a good building for this opportunity for our community to share more art. I mean, yeah, Zuni art's everywhere.

Daryl Shack: Namely, it's shared through local buyers that come, or local buyers and buyers from Gallup, they come into the community, but the far-reaching tones of why we do art and share directly is because sometimes it's really difficult to find homes for our art. Sometimes the people who come to buy the art in Zuni aren't so nice at pricing, and it gets difficult. So sometimes in our community, it's difficult to work and show folks how retail works.

Daryl Shack: And so at the co-op, operating at retail, it allows our Zuni artists to go and show our community what's possible. So we have a website, we have our local gallery, which also features the young talent that we have from ZYEP, which they get those artists involved because the co-op artists act as mentors, and we have apprenticeship programs that we work with ZYEP. So we have like a six-week program.

Daryl Shack: They learn a media or craft, then we have a show for the kids, and then they're able to act as members of our co-op, and they have a special wall where they can have their art put up or in showcases right along our art as veterans, and we're kind of ushering them into what we're able to do. And that's where it starts with our children. We're teaching our children the basic gifts of art and then letting them understand how important it is that it needs to be carried on because what we do as art, as I was explaining earlier, it comes from what our people use culturally.

Daryl Shack: Jewelry. We have ceremonies, we need jewelry. And it's almost in preparation for the next world also. We need jewelry to go with also. So it's really, really interesting. And also the fetishes are like gifts to ourselves.

Daryl Shack: Just to explain a little bit, it's about the characteristics of each animal and what they're able to offer us in this world and what we may need or if we know we lack, that's where they can help us.

Ranger Dan: And with that co-op, one of the main themes you told me about is goals. The big thing that it wants to get out, not just to visitors who are looking to buy authentic Zuni pieces, but also for the artists there, is education all around. And now the education for an artist will be different from a visitor, but it's education nonetheless.

Ranger Dan: And it sounds like the co-op is really getting that out there for people to understand from an artist perspective and from a visitor perspective. So what is the education for a visitor versus an artist through the co-op? What's the balance there?

Daryl Shack: Thank you. Thank you for asking that.

Daryl Shack: I can briefly explain. For visitors, we have what we call the art walk. And we've allowed our artists to open their home studios to visitors to come and go, to chit-chat with them, just on the light maybe for 30 minutes.

Daryl Shack: Or if you want to learn what they're really doing, you could book yourself for an extended time visit even. I mean, they're willing to share. I mean, me, if you show up at my place as an art walk visitor, I'll talk your head off and then we'll show you what we're doing on the motor to make animals.

Daryl Shack: We'll talk about what the animals mean. And then eventually, you know, you're able to purchase art directly from me, from my home studio. Usually, I have a few pieces ready to go. Daryl Shack: And you know what's fun for most visitors is that I'm able to finish a piece while they're there. They'll usually take that one home. So, it's really fun for me as well.

Daryl Shack: Whoa. See, we have visitors. They want to let me know.

Ranger Dan: Yeah, birds just fly right through the program. Daryl Shack: Right through our program here. And then, so that's available for the visitor.

Daryl Shack: And at the gallery, you're able to also view the art that our artists put in there. And for the co-op, as artists, our members are able to use the gallery to sell their art, you know. So that's, you know, very basic.

Daryl Shack: And then at the same time, we're able to help them out with, you know, the digital aspects of marketing and, you know, just promoting artists and also finding that, you know, there's training to be had for some of these artists. So we've had, you know, work done to share a little bit of mentorship for our artists' artists. You know, a little bit about coaching through different business practices.

Daryl Shack: You know, for a while, it was all about hashtagging. That's kind of fizzing down. But we're trying to find, you know, the next best thing for our artists to get exposure, networking, letting them know.

Daryl Shack: You know, one of the finer points of sharing is that, you know, information is key. And when you get the right people in the right room, it really goes a long way when we're able to share that. So, I think that's the real key of this co-op.

Daryl Shack: And for our artists, when they find out that, you know, their pieces are selling and on the online scale, we're actually selling it for them at retail and they're getting a little higher price for their work instead of having to go from store to store, from shop to shop, trying to sell your work. So let me paint that picture for you real quick. When I first started, I took my bears to a shop or like a guy in a car sitting in a shop next to a gas station.

Daryl Shack: So, I went over there with my box of bears, first box, opened it up, and he looks at it. Well, only a moment, he said, hmm, another bear carver. Closes my box and shoves it right back to me.

Daryl Shack: And he knew my parents because he's been there for years and he kind of knew me. So, he says, Daryl, you know, there's 500 bear carvers in the community. You know, what are you going to do to make yours different?

Daryl Shack: So that kind of sparked a little bit of, you know, intentions for me to, yeah, what am I going to do different? But it made me feel bad, went home, set up my mom's work table because that's where I make my work pieces, and I was lost for a bit. But, you know, this epiphany came right back because on the table there was coral, turquoise, and pen shell, which is black, and mother of pearl, which is white or real shiny stuff.

Daryl Shack: And so wrapped it together and, you know, made my bundles, which now today at the Santa Fe shops, they call it the "Shack stack." So that's what I want for everybody through the co-op. And that's what we're able to teach them, you know, through marketing, ourselves, what I said earlier, branding, the names of our artists because it's really important.

Daryl Shack: Today we struggle with thousands of imports, you know, knockoffs, if you mind me saying. And even Gucci, we're having the same problem as Gucci, and it's the same thing, you know. We're having to work through that.

Daryl Shack: And so, a lot of initiatives in Zuni have been focusing on art, I think because of Art Walk, too, and what we're able to do. And so, I'm thankful for programs such as this because I hope that our leaders will listen in on this if it does go through as a podcast and to see, you know, what the needs are for our artists in our community because they're vast, vast needs. And there have been scholars who've said that in the community of Zuni, 80% of our homes have at least one artist. You know, so I've calculated that that's about 1,200 different artists in different media. And, you know, in our home, there's five of us, and so we're a little above average, and that's what I like.

Ranger Dan: You know, I was looking at the numbers in our program here, and you say there's about 1,200 artists in Zuni. Zuni is one of the three largest artist communities for the Cultural Demonstration Program for the park. And I want to say we probably have between 75 and 100 artists from Zuni in this program. So, we're pushing almost like 10% of Zuni artists in this Cultural Demonstration Program at the park, which is kind of cool to think about now.

Daryl Shack: I call a vote right now. Everybody, I need you to vote. I need you to vote that whoever's going to be a part of this program to be a Cultural Demonstrator has to be a part of the co-op.

Daryl Shack: Nah, I'm kidding. But that would be nice. Seventy-five Zuni artists, that's a good number, because right now we're dabbling between maybe 30 and 40, and not including the young ones, but these are the artists' artists. And so, you know, I think community is awesome. Community is great. And I'm all about building this artist community that we have back home in Zuni.

Ranger Dan: Yeah, it's wonderful. And where is the co-op located? It's located in Zuni, right?

Daryl Shack: Yes, it's right in downtown Zuni, as I like to say. Right across what they say, Speedway.

Ranger Dan: Nice.

Daryl Shack: Yeah, you can't miss it.

Ranger Dan: So, everyone's invited to come out to the co-op.

Daryl Shack: Yes, absolutely.

Ranger Dan: You're invited to Zuni. You can go to the Pueblo. You can go and experience it, which is amazing.

Daryl Shack: Yes, visit our artists, visit their homes even, you know, and to find out how, you know, the bracelet you're wearing is made, or the fetish animal you bought, how it was made, or the pottery. You know, there's several pottery artists that are on there that are awesome, you know, master artists. That's who I work with, are just masters.

Daryl Shack: And I'm in envy of a lot of those folks that are doing demonstrations and traveling throughout the U.S. And we only got started a few years ago just to get, you know, our foot in the water. But before that, it's all about sit back and then it became like this. You know, I make my piece quick, quick, quick. I'm a very good photographer through my phone, and so I get very good comments online. And I believe it's all about that presentation online. And so it's difficult.

Daryl Shack: Coming and sharing directly is awesome because you can touch and feel and see and talk and find out, ask questions. So this demonstration program is just really awesome. And today was fun.

Daryl Shack: That's all I can say. A lot of fun. I'm so glad to see all of you here.

Ranger Dan: One last thing here. What would you like people to know about visiting Zuni? Like if you're going to go out and visit, what should you know ahead of time before you visit?

Daryl Shack: I think, well, let me start with it's a small village. There's not many amenities. There's only two general stores, like three now. And so be prepared. Gas stations, two gas stations. There's good eateries. There's nice Halona chicken. Don't miss that. And Chu Chu's Pizzeria. Don't miss that at all. So those are places to visit and eat. And our visitor center, please visit them.

Daryl Shack: The tour guides who are working there, Kenny and Sean, they're very knowledgeable. They also offer tours around the Zuni area through different site ruins. So it's really nice.

Daryl Shack: It's really expansive. So there's different ruins that you can see and ask questions and, of course, pose for pictures and whatnot. Also, if you hook up with a Zuni family, there's a chance you might get invited for dinner because that's really what it's about back home.

Daryl Shack: The hospitality. Zuni is known for their hospitality and their chili stews and their oven bread. Their outside horno oven bread.

Daryl Shack: So if you drive into Zuni, there's a chance that there'll be like bonfires going on. But that's really oven bread baking going on outside. So it's a long day process.

Daryl Shack: My wife goes through that.

Benina: All day. Yeah.

Daryl Shack: But then it's a hard shell bread that holds for quite a bit. So at least maybe a week, you know. So then it's game on again.

Daryl Shack: She'll have to bake bread. Just kidding.

Ranger Dan: Yeah. No, it's great. And so we definitely encourage everyone to check out that co-op.

Daryl Shack: Absolutely.

Ranger Dan: I've got the website. You can see that. If it ever works for your future trips in the southwest here, you're welcome at Zuni.

Daryl Shack: Yes. Zuni. Also, if there's a chance that there's any cultural dances, ceremonial dances going on, and if you do go, just be respectful.

Daryl Shack: And there's no photography and no recording and such. So just give everybody a fair warning on that. But enjoy.

Daryl Shack: I mean, people are nice. I mean, the scenery around there, when my people started their migration, they were told to look for the middle place. And to me, they found it.

Daryl Shack: When you look around and we have our four seasons, I mean, with the isolation that we did have, a lot of the cultural, the archaic chants and the prayers and the language that you could hear during times when our people were here, during times of Chaco Canyon, I mean, think about that. It's still back home, whereas a lot of our brother nations in the east and other tribes have lost a lot of that. So, Hopi and Zuni are like the last remnants almost, like the thread, the bridge of what was, you know.

Daryl Shack: And I was fortunate, too, that I grew up with my mom's paternal grandmother. And so, it was a bridge to the late 1800s, you know, to know that bit of preservation that I have to also carry on. It's like being on the bottom of the totem pole.

Daryl Shack: You carry the weight of everybody else on your shoulders. That's right. So it's the most important.

Daryl Shack: Elahkwa. Don ansamona don yadon k'okshi sunhapk'yanawa. Don ansamona dek'ohanann yanekchiyak'yana.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov slash GRCA. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon, these being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

In this episode, Ranger Dan interviews Daryl Shack Sr., a multifaceted Zuni artist best known for his work as a fetish carver, and painter. With over 40 years of experience, Daryl discusses how his artistry is deeply connected to Zuni culture. Beyond his own creations, he is a dedicated advocate for fellow Zuni artists, playing a key role in initiatives like the Zuni Art Walk and the Zuni ARTZ Co-op.

Episode 9

Marian Manyturquoise Speaks

Transcript

Marian Speaks Transcript

Marian Manyturquoise: So, I'm going to teach you one word. Are you ready? I'm going to say it in three parts, okay? So, here we go. Ni-zho-ni. Ready? Ni-zho-ni. Beautiful. You beautiful people. That means beautiful.

Meranden: Hello, everyone. Welcome to today's Grand Canyon Speaks episode. My name is Meranden.

Lakin: And this is Lakin.

Meranden: We hope everyone out there has been enjoying season two. It's been a lot of fun being able to hear these stories and put them out there for all of you to listen to.

Lakin: We're happy to share this next episode with Ranger Dawn and Grand Canyon Conservancy employee, Marian Manyturquoise, who grew up at Grand Canyon with her grandparents.

Meranden: Yeah, she shared some knowledge about her Diné culture, her experiences with boarding school, and the importance of respecting the land around you.

Lakin: Once again, we appreciate listeners like you for tuning in, and we are excited for more episodes to come.

Meranden: And here is Marian Manyturquoise.

Marian: Yá’át’ééh means Hello. I didnt get to shake your hands. That means hello, Yá’át’ééh (speaks Navajo) When you meet your relatives or meet new people, mostly from your own tribe or your own relatives, you come to that with (speaks Navajo), I'm sorry, we're over here. So, I would say hello to all my relatives, all the people that have come from far. So, thank you for coming to the Grand Canyon.

This is a beautiful place. This is my favorite spot. This is where my family has lived for generations, hunted.

We gathered all these different, the different trees here, produced different things, and the plants also that we would come and gather at certain times of the year. So, thank you for coming to my area of this country. So, my name is Marian Manyturquoise.

This is the only turquoise I own. And then the other thing we would do is, we're in the clan system. So, what I would say is, who my mother is, is what I am.

And who my father is, who my mother's father is, and who my father's father is. On top of that, then you have at least four other clans that are really closely related to you. So, I'm going to say that whole thing for you.

I will try to explain it afterwards, so you have an understanding of what I said. So, (Introduces self in Navajo) So, I am my name, and then my mother's clan is Yucca Fruit People.

My father's clan is Apache Towering House people. My grandfather, who is usually my Cheii, is the Shadow in the Woods, is the Bear clan. And then my father's father is my nali.

He is the Deerwater clan. So the reason why we have these clan system is so we don't intermarry. So the four extra clans are also the other clans we don't marry.

If that happens anywhere, it is usually called the moths. You know how the moths, they go and they keep going towards the fire when they know, I guess they don't know, I don't know, but that's why they're called the moths. So I just like to bring that up.

That's the clan system. So there's over 200 clan system in the Navajo tribe. So I grew up here in this area with my family.

I was born here in this area. So back in the 60s, most of the kids were born in the Tuba City district, Tuba City PHS, which is about 50 miles east. So that was the main hospital for all the kids that were born in this area.

And as I grew, we grew up in these canyons here. We'd follow our parents here and there. We migrated a lot.

We'd live in Cameron for the summer. And in the fall, we'd come closer to the mountain. In the wintertime, we'd spend here close to the mountain.

So when you come up 64 east of here, as you go up, you can tell the different elevations, right? But on 64, you have the community of Cameron. And then as you come up, you're in the Navajo Nation. You're in the Navajo Nation down there.

In the summertime, like about this time, the weather gets a little bit dry. There's no kind of moisture. So we would go down to Cameron.

There's a natural spring that comes out of the lava beds. So we'd go there, and that's where we'd take our sheep. And then in the fall, we'd come closer this way.

But the only thing is, we have to haul water. But in the fall, we have all the green that has turned to the right color for our livestock. And then in the winter, we'd come straight up.

And we do have winter homes down here just below, maybe I'd say a good five miles in this direction, inside the pinyon trees and cedar trees. In the fall, we'd spend our winters there. And then by that time, we would still haul water, but also collect snow for water.

And then we'd use all the wood that was dead, had matured. That would be our firewood. So that's how me and my family, we migrated back and forth.

My parents, it was hard for them to get employment here on the Navajo Nation. So a lot of the things that my father did and my mother did was they would go from one area down to Phoenix or to Salt Lake to do migrant work. And through that time, they had 12 kids.

So they would migrate and go leave us, and we would be left with our grandparents at times. But growing up here was a special thing because we got to know our canyons and get to hike into our canyons at night. If we lost a sheep, we'd have to go into those canyons and look for our sheep.

The only way we did that was with the bells on the sheep. So a lot of things we did as little kids, like gather snow, help gather pinyons, help gather corn, watermelon at our little garden in Tuba. So there's a lot of things as growing up made us, my brothers and sisters, really strong.

So this is a very special area for me because of my grandparents and generations before. So the Grand Canyon, when I think about it, is because it really brings a lot of thankfulness, I guess you wanna say, because generations before, back in 1886, most of our family members that lived here to get away from the soldiers to be captured, they would go into the canyon and they would hide down there for till 18... Okay, 1886 is when the treaty was signed. So they would, when that, about maybe five or six years before that, then they came back out after the treaty was signed and they came back and they started living here again.

And then the park was made and then we were pushed back that way again. So that's, the specialty is that they found refuge down here so they didn't have to walk so many hundreds of miles to New Mexico. And the beauty of this area is so breathtaking.

Every time I think of my home, I always think, oh, ow, you know, I live in a real special place. So I'm gonna teach you one word. Are you ready? I'm gonna say it in three parts, okay? So here we go.

Ni-zho-ni Ready? Ni-zho-ni. Beautiful.

You beautiful people. That means beautiful. So anytime you see something or I see something, or when I say a prayer, it's always beautiful.

Nizhoni. Then at the end of our prayers, that's another thing. We always say it four times (speaks in Navajo).

Because, and there's four directions and there's four different sacred mountains. So that when we end our prayer, that's how we say it. I think that's why, and my language is really beautiful.

So just a few stories about how we grew up here. We were left alone a lot. So we'd go and we'd hike into these canyons here.

The little Colorado River Gorge. We didn't really, it was part of us, I think. So there's air pockets in those canyon, sheer cliffs, there's air pockets in them.

So our crazy brothers would say, okay, let's go. So we'd go in those air pockets and we'd go on our hands and knees and we'd follow each other all the way to where it ended. And then we'd slowly turn around and we'd go all the way back out again.

I don't know why, but we did. But we didn't feel any, we weren't scared. We were part of that land.

And just like with the moonlight and our grandparents would say, go get the sheep. We knew where to go, even though we weren't there like every single day. We'd go down and listen for the bells and anything that was wild, mountain lion, coyote, anything, didn't really bother us.

Snakes, because you were part of that land. So, and the other thing is, we were never to play in the water, respect the water. So when there was a monsoon, it was coming close to our home, we would stop everything.

We would just sit down, cross-legged or whatever, irreverently, and we'd sit there and wait for the rain to come through. And then we would meditate. We were told to do that.

So we'd just sit there and we'd watch, we'd just listen to the rain until it went through. Then we were told, yeah, now you can go out. So that's how we respect the thunderstorm.

We also respect the eclipse. So all Navajos don't do anything during the eclipse because it's the changing of our mother earth and our skies, our moon, and our sun. So before an eclipse, we would just get ready, get our food ready, drink our water, and just close off all the light in our home.

And we'd just sit still through the whole eclipse and we would pray. And then after the eclipse, we would, you know, bless ourself and then we'd say thank you or our thank you prayer. And then we would sit down and have our meal on the floor.

So a lot of our meals were on the floor. But I would like to express that, how we respect the eclipse, how we respect the moisture, the thunderstorm, and snow. Anything that brought us life is what we respected.

And that's just a few things. And then later on, as I grew up, we were told to go to the boarding school. That was a thing that we had to do because there was no other school.

So the government would come around and pick up all of us, all our little ones. And even though our parents didn't want us to go, we were forced to go. So we'd go to the Tuba City Boarding School.

Tuba City Boarding School, I think is like 200 years old. So our grandparents, our mothers have gone there. It was a sad moment in my life.

It was a scary moment in my life. There's just a couple stories that I remember. When a little kid, you know, you all have homes, you have beautiful homes, probably nice bedrooms.

And here you would go into this long hall. And each of those halls had beds. Like four people would sit and have a bunk bed in this long building.

So what they would do is they would check you out, make sure you're okay. And then the Navajos believe if you have real long hair, you bring moisture. So what they would do to the little girls is they would chop off all their hair because they didn't want to tend to our hair.

So they would chop it all off. It's easy for them to just comb it out. That was one.

The other thing that I mostly hated was we couldn't speak our language, no matter how old we were. We had to speak English. If we didn't speak English, we'd get punished.

And being punished was harsh. Other thing was they would have a fire alarm. Didn't matter what time of the night.

And us little kids didn't know any better. But they always try to tell you, keep your shoes here. Keep your fire blanket right here.

The army blanket. And somewhere along the night, the fire alarm would be the loudest thing, like a big, huge alarm you would hear in your neighborhood. And we'd jump out of bed and some of these little ones, we would forget our shoes.

And sometimes in the wintertime, it didn't matter. You had to get out to the basketball court with no shoes. Or you would step on bullheads, we call it.

Those goat heads, people call it. So we'd get out. Some of us forgot our blankets.

And sometimes during the wintertime, there's ice, there's snow. So we had to get out to that basketball court and stand in line until the doormate came and counted each of us. And then we would go back in.

But it was a harsh lesson to learn because we were just little kids. We were just like six-year-olds, five-year-olds. So I just wanted, that's some of the bad things about the boarding school.

You were there, your parents couldn't come pick you up. You were there like months at a time. And the best thing that ever happened to me was my grandfather.

He would come every two weeks. And he would come and he would be sitting at the dorm waiting for us and flirting with all the doormates. So he was a kind man.

So he was the one that kind of brightened our day or our week when he did bring us back. And then we'd end up down here, down below here. In the wintertime, we'd stay with him down below during vacations.

And I was telling my friend here that during that time, it was a real good time because our grandparents would kind of cherish us. And they would take the extra time, which is just part of their daily life. And that's how a lot of the kids grew up here is we lived in a hogan, a round structure called a hogan, ho-one.

It had that door to the east. We lived in this one room with our grandparents and we slept on the floor, sheepskins. So we'd fix our sheepskins and we'd lay them out every night and we'd sleep on it.

The only person that slept on the bed was my grandma. But other than that, they would say, you have to sleep on your sheepskin right or else if you have it during, you know, your head going this way, it's gonna run off with you at night. So we always had to be really careful and we'd lay it so its butt was towards the door.

So during the wintertime, we'd spend that time with her. She would go out like at least every two hours because it was during the lambing season and the kids were, the kids, the goats, the little ones were being born. She'd go out to the corral and she'd check them every once in a while.

And when one was of the lambs or the sheep were having their babies, she'd bring the sheep in. It's like a manger inside this hogan. So we'd have a couple of sheep here, maybe a goat here with all their little babies right at the door.

And you'd just hear them, but that, you know, we never, it didn't really bother us that much. In the wintertime, she would go out there and she'd milk the goats and she'd bring it in and she'd put it in a coffee can and she'd have it come to boil. And then she'd add a little bit of flour and whatever else you put in there.

And that was our milk pudding. And we'd have it with wild tea. You have a lot of wild tea here.

It has a reddish, rusty color. It's really yummy to drink. So that was my life when I was like maybe six or seven.

So to tend to the sheep, she would take a gunny sack and wrap it around our moccasins or whatever shoes we had. And it'd go all the way to the top here. And we were just little kids, six or seven years old.

And she'd go, go tend the sheep. So when we'd come back after a while, she'd go and dig inside her, all her stuff. And she'd bring out an orange or an apple that has been sitting there for at least since Christmas.

And she'd sit there and she'd peel it. And there's maybe four of us. And we each get so many slices.

Even with soda, she'd get maybe one can. And she'd take her little cups and she'd pour us a soda. So we didn't have very much.

But it was a blessing to be with them. It didn't mean very much to us at the time as long as we ate. So, yeah.

Visitor: Who ran the boarding school?

Marian: The Bureau of Indian Affairs. Government. That is still, the boarding school is still going now.

But now they have the kids where the abuse is gone and all that is gone. And now they have kids that they can go home when they want. They have to go home. They don't stay there anymore.

Ranger Dawn: So kind of going back to your family, I think it's really special that you get to work with your sister. And I was just wondering if you would touch on the impact she made on you and what you've learned from her.

Marian: Yeah. I do work with my sister. She keeps me in line. This is actually the first time I ever worked with one of my family members. And I love it. Actually, my sister is actually the second mom to the family.

Back then when we were small, there was no pampers. There was nothing like that out here. So I remember my mom, she goes, I had to take your diapers down to the rocks when it rained. Like that. When it rained, there was water in the catches of the rocks. The big air pockets in there.

And that's where she'd take, she'd put all her clothes on a donkey and she'd go down into the canyon and find those water catches. And that's where she'd wash her clothes. And my sister would be home taking care of us.

And she would be the main one to cook us all our meals. And she kind of kept us in line. So through that, with my sister and my brothers, when our parents are out gathering, we would pick a place like this and we'd make like a little corral, my parents would.

And they would put a fire in the middle. So at times, my sisters and my older brothers would be the ones to take care of us. Nothing ever took us.

We're still here. There was no Bigfoot, there was no bear, there's no mountain lion, nothing. We were just there, little kids playing in that little corral.

Until this day, my sister, she would be like, how do we survive that? But she was a big help to my family. She would make sure that we're in our cradleboards at certain times of the day. We all grew up in our cradleboards, so we have a cradleboard head.

But I knew my lesson, so when I made cradleboards for my grandkids, I made sure I put a foam in there with the holes in it so my grandkids don't have cradleboard heads. But my sister does play a big, important part. Her name is Caroline.

She's the oldest of six of us girls. And I have four brothers. And we have other brothers and sisters that have passed on.

But they all, my parents, my grandparents, my grandpa, my grandma, they play the role of who I am. Plus, my foster family, people that I've met. I still have a lot of kids.

I have adopted a lot of kids. So they would call me Mama, or I'd be walking down the aisle, and they'd say, Mom! Oh, yes, who was that one? So that all goes back to being brought up by my mom and my sister. Yeah.

Visitor: Sorry to ask, but what kind of time frame are we looking at? I mean, I hear stories from my parents, grandparents. I get stories to tell my kids in the 70s, 80s. Marian: So the time frame, I was born in 1962. Visitor: Oh, so you're a youngster.

Marian: Yeah, I'm young. Thank you.

1962, my mom hitchhiked to the hospital, had me, brought me back. So all her kids, she'd hitchhike from here all the way to Tuba and have her kids. And then she would catch the Simway back to her kids over here.

So those are the kind of things. So in 1962, I was born. And about 65, somewhere, 68, we went to 67 or so, I went to placement program.

But in that teen kindergarten preschool, I was in the boarding school. And then I came back in 1970-something for one year at the boarding school. And the rest of the time, I spent in Southern California, Fallbrook, San Diego area.

And then in the summer, I would come back and spend it with my grandparents, do the things we're supposed to do, herd sheep, just be there to help them out and just be at home. And we had to relearn. We had to relearn our language, because through the whole year, we weren't speaking Navajo.

So that sometimes, my tongue gets twisted. That's what you want to say. When I'm saying a word, I don't finish it.

Or sometimes, my thoughts go off to being something else. So at times, yes. So and then in 1980, I graduated here.

I came back and I graduated at the Tuba City High School. That's a Bureau of Indian Affairs high school. In California, you go outside of your classes and go to the next class.

Here, it is so beautiful. The rugs are all out. And then you just stay inside the building and go to your classes.

I was at awe at that. Any more questions?

Ranger Dawn: I have one last question. I just wanted to know, thank you for sharing all your story with us. But what is one thing you want the audience to take away from our talk today?

Marian: I think even in the 60s and the 70s out here, you would think, wow, I lived this life in the city, in a big city. But back here, on the Navajo Nation, and mostly other nations, everywhere, other native reservations, it's hardship. But I think that, let's put it this way.

When you look at us, what do you see? What do you see when you come to our Navajo Nation? OK, peace, beauty. What do you see when you drive through our Navajo Nation? Wilderness. So my sister there, really quick, it took, what, 20 years? 10 years, 15 years to get your electricity? Because of the red tape of the government, working with the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

So I just want you to go from here, thinking that it is beautiful. We love it. It's a struggle.

Nowadays, for the young adults to actually go from their home to even here at times. I had a struggle. Because I left Page, and I got here, and my boss is sitting right there.

So she goes, OK, I'll hire you. But the only thing that was wrong is, where I actually have a home, I have no electricity. I have no running water.

So they were more than fortunate enough to give me a little apartment to stay in. So when you think about all those young adults wanting to get out, that would be their main problem, is to get out to find something that could make them live and get out of the poverty, out of welfare. So I think I want you to leave from here the reality of the Navajo Nation.

It is beautiful. My tradition's beautiful. I get up every morning, and I say my prayers to the sun, the moon, the air that I breathe.

Thankful every day, Mother Earth that I live on. My changing woman, my white shell woman, and also my corn pollen, my white corn grain. So those are the things that I pray to all of here.

Every morning, it's a thankful prayer. So I guess I think that it is, we are struggling, but we're proud people. Thank you again for listening to me.

Ranger Jonah: Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music.

This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park. To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/GRCA. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon.

These being the Havasupai tribe, the Hualapai tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute tribe.

In this episode, Ranger Dawn got to talk with Marian Manyturquoise who is a Diné employee of Grand Canyon Conservancy at the Desert View Watchtower. She tells stories of her life growing up at the canyon, her childhood at boarding school, and the importance of respecting everything around you.

Episode 10

Don Decker Speaks

Transcript

Don Decker Speaks Transcript

[Don Decker] That's how we conquered our language deficiency that we had. A lot of people were losing our language. And we're teaching our kids how to speak their own language today.

We continue that. And that's my job as an elder, as an 80-year-old elder, you know. And so there were many of us that got together and worked on this dictionary. And the dictionary was completed with a cooperative venture with a university in Indiana.

[Meranden] Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. My name is Miranda.

[Lakin] And this is Lakin.

[Meranden] In this episode, Ranger Dan got to speak with Don Decker, who is a member of the Yavapai Apache Nation and is an artist from our cultural demonstration program.

[Lakin] Yes, he also spoke about the origin story for the Apache people, why Yavapai and Apache share a reservation, and explained the importance of keeping indigenous languages alive.

[Meranden] We are very excited for you to hear Don's story. And as always, thank you for tuning in to Grand Canyon Speaks.

[Lakin] Here is Don Decker.

[Ranger Dan] So without further ado, I would like to pass the mic here that's already in his hand to Don. And take it away.

[Don Decker] Oh, that's some Indian bingo. Thank you very much. Under the B, B9. You know, first of all, thank you for the introduction, Dan. I want to thank all the National Park Service people that are hosting me today. I had a wonderful day being inside of that building.

I got here this morning, and when I was coming in from Flagstaff, I came in from the east side of the park, and I was looking for this turnoff, but somehow I missed it. So I ended up over downtown Grand Canyon over there this morning, about 25 miles over there. So I made a turnaround and got here, and I was late about 20 minutes.

That's pretty good, huh? I didn't even speed getting back over here. But anyway, I was inside.

There demonstrating Apache crafts, making tiny little bags that hang around your neck. And so I was beading those things, and special stones on them, too, also, as well. And so I got a chance to meet people from all over the world, and that's one good thing about working in Grand Canyon.

It seemed like I met people from all over the world. It's incredible.

Who's farthest away from Grand Canyon?

Raise your hand if you think you're the farthest away. Norway, yes. French. Netherlands. And you're down there by Germany, yeah. Well, nice having everyone here together.

And we are one people, aren't we? We got the same kind of blood, right? The same eyes, the same everything.

One thing that we do have that's really, really, for sure, it's all the same is the heart, huh? It's incredible, huh? How we are able to have the same heart and then be able to function in this world, that's an incredible piece of machinery inside of our chest that allows us to be here, to be thankful, to look at this wonder of the world, Grand Canyon.

The word grand is something, isn't it? Like Grand Central Station, you know, the grand drawing, the grandma, you know, the grandpa, tops, right? Grand Canyon rates right up there, and this is a special place for the people here.

For the people of this area here, there's tribes that are involved with the upkeep of the Grand Canyon in terms of the signage, the new signage that has come in down toward the bottom of the canyon where there used to be a place called Indian Gardens, and they changed it, the Havasupai people changed it, and they changed it to Havasupai Gardens, and that was just done under the group that I was working with this past year, so I'm really proud to be able to work with the management of the Grand Canyon intertribal group that I've been involved with for about a year. I kind of joined late because the group's been in existence for how many years?

[Ranger Dan] It's been around for now 11 years.

[Don Decker] 11 years, and when I go to these meetings, they're very highly organized meetings, and they have an agenda, and they stick to it, and they know exactly what they're doing, what they're doing with the park, and Michael Lyndon, who was the director for about 3 or 4 years, right?

[Ranger Dan] Yeah, he ran our tribal affairs department at the park for a number of years.

[Don Decker] Yes, and they moved to Washington, D.C. He just got a new position there with the National Park Service, and he's there now, but I want to also thank him for allowing me to participate. I'm going to talk a little bit about Apache, okay? And when we think about Apache, you know, we always think about movies, Hollywood movies, right? And so we see a lot of movies that we've seen as we were growing up, you know. Apache's raiding little wagon trains, you know. Apache's doing this and starting fires and basically causing a lot of havoc, you know, in movies, you know.

But Hollywood got us really, they got us all wrong, you know. And we're peaceful, loving people. And so I'm saying, so I'm trying to correct some of the stereotypes of movies that are made in Hollywood.

They've changed all of that now. I saw the movie Little Big Man back in 1972. I saw it in Fort Wayne, Indiana one night in an old theater when it premiered.

But that was the best movie that I'd ever seen that was made about Native American indigenous people, you know. And so a lot of the corrections being going on right now with the recent movie and TV series that have been coming forth now in production. So I'm glad about that as well too.

The Apache group that I belong to, they're located about two and a half hours south of here on the way to Phoenix. There's a small little town called Camp Verde. And that is the traditional lands of the Apache people and the Yavapai.

The Yavapai people and the Apache people live on the same reservation. But the Yavapai people speak a different language. They have a different culture.

But we share the same reservations. Matter of fact, we have a lot of intermarriage with one another. There's 2,200 of us that live on the reservation.

And we've been there since time immemorial, all the way back to the 14th century, 13th century in the area, as early as the documentation that was made by Spanish explorers that came to the area around 1604. They saw Apaches in the area, and it was noted by a Catholic priest who wrote a book and was recorded. And so that is the basis of history that we look at when we look at the paperwork that's been done to show that the Apaches were in the area around the 16th century.

But the traditional Apache people say that, we've always been here, they say that. The old people, when you talk to them, you know, they say, what are you talking about? What are you talking about, 1600? What are you telling those people up there in Grand Canyon? You know, I could just hear that. But the traditional people will say, we've always been here.

And so the studies have been made. You know, our language goes all the way up to northern Canada, and then some of the people in northern California speak a, not Apache, but Athabascan, it's called Athabascan people, and we are part of the Athabascan people. And so a lot of the history is told about migration, but the migration is really from the point of view of archaeologists and anthropologists. So when the traditional Apaches talk about their own traditions and their migration, they always talk about it coming from here, from this area here. So when the Apaches talk about how did we come into this world, well, we talk about a place near Sedona where there's a place called Boynton Canyon where the Apaches celebrate, each year in February, the forthcoming, the entering of the Apache into the world as we know it today. And that leads me into the next portion of my talk about spirituality of the Apache people.

And the Apache medicine men talk about the time when time began. This was when the universe was completely dark, and they could see a small light, smaller than the head of a match, and it was lit, and that was the supreme being. The Apaches prayed to a supreme being called Usen, U-S-E-N, and he is a creator that made all the world.

And he talks about the light that began when it lit up the whole universe, and the sun is what they're talking about over here. That sun that we have here that we depend on so much, and it's so important to have the sun. And when the universe lit up, the Apache world came into the world.

I'm not going to tell you the whole story because it would take about 4 hours. We'll still be sitting here about 11 o'clock tonight, but I'm skipping ahead real fast forward here. It talks about the beginning of the world, and at the very beginning there were holy spirits. There were mountain spirit dancers that were dancing, and they are special deities that come from the creator source coming into the world and showing the people how to live. And there was a great flood, kind of like a Bible story, you know, but it's similar to it, and it talks about a great flood, the second coming, because there was a lot of corruption going on. And when the Apaches came back into the new world, it was led by the female, and they carried a shell from the ocean filled with water somewhere in San Diego somewhere back, but this was a long time ago.

And it talks about the beginning of the Apache world, and that is how the spiritual teachings are taught among Apache. That's what keeps the communities going based on that information of traditional upbringing and teachings of coming into the world. It's a very sacred story.

I can't tell you all of the story because, first of all, I'm not a medicine man, number one, okay, so I don't pretend to be a medicine man up here. I'm one of the spiritual leaders for our community, and so I wanted to share that with you. So around 1875, down in Canberra, there was an altercation between the Apaches and the U.S. Calvary. There was a lot of warfare going on, and it's hard to believe. Well, there was a civil war here. There was a war in America, too, a long time ago.

So there was a war going on between the Apaches and the Calvary. It was about land, and the Apaches were rounded up in 1875 in February and were marched off to a place in eastern Arizona where they were interned for about 25 years because the expansion of the western United States, the Apaches were in the way. And so the Yavapais were part of that roundup, and they were marched over there in what was basically a prison, but it was really just a camp, a military camp.

And at the turn of the century, 1900, we were released, and we came back to our lands over to Camp Verde. And when we got there, there were ranches everywhere. Somebody had squatted on our lands, and the land was taken.

And this is important to know because it's part of history. That's all it is. I'm not trying to make a point here or a bad point, make you feel bad or anything like that, but it's just history is what I want to share with you.

And to this day, our people survived, you know, and we have 2,200 people living on our reservation. Some people live in Schenectady. Some people live in California, different states, and so forth.

But there's about 1,100 people that live on the reservation in Camp Verde today. We have a casino. The casino is the largest employer of the area.

We employ over 500 people from the community there that have jobs that are employed by the Yavapai Apache Nation. So we contribute economically to the community that way. So I wanted to tell you a little bit about the language, the Apache language.

The Apache language is one of the hardest languages to learn. It's so hard because a lot of people try to pronounce it. It's like learning French.

Oh, French would be a hard language to learn because it's hard to pronounce French words. You know that, right, everybody? Have you tried to pronounce a French word?

It's very hard. You know what I mean? Si vous plaît, vous le savez. You know, whatever, whatever, whatever you say. So Apache is the same way. So I'm going to call one of the audience members here. Do I have a volunteer? Let's have 2 volunteers, okay? Come on up here real quick.

I want to teach you a little bit of Apache. Okay, come on up here. Say, (Speaks Apache)

[Ranger Dan] (Speaks Apache).

[Don Decker] That means, how are you?

I'll say, (speaks Apache). Yeah, it means, okay.

That sounds like French, doesn't it? (Speaks Apache) Yeah, so it's natural for you, right?

So I walk up to you and say, hey, (Speaks Apache)

[Ranger Dan] (Repeats)

[Don Decker] (Speaks Apache) I say, (Speaks Apache) I say, (Speaks Apache)

[Ranger Dan] (Speaks Apache)

[Don Decker] (Speaks Apache)

[Ranger Dan] (Speaks Apache)

[Don Decker] Yeah. Say, (Speaks Apache)

[Ranger Dan] (Speaks Apache)

[Don Decker] Where are you going? He said. (Speaks Apache) Say, (Speaks Apache)

[Ranger Dan] (Speaks Apache)

[Don Decker] (Speaks Apache) I'm going over there. That's what I told him. I said, I'll say, (Speaks Apache)

[Ranger Dan] You got to say that one again, Don.

[Don Decker] (Speaks Apache) Don.

[Ranger Dan] Don.

[Don Decker] That's my name.

[Ranger Dan] Yeah.

[Don Decker] Yeah, okay. So the language can be, the language is a very complicated language.

Apache is a very complicated language. And so we have a language program on our reservation. And I want you to write this down if you can.

It's, if you look on the internet, if you type in D-I-L-Z-H-E apostrophe E Apache Dictionary App, you'll find our dictionary on there. You can type in any word that you want, and the words will come up, and it'll teach you Apache. And that's how we conquered our language deficiency that we had.

A lot of people were losing our language. And we're teaching our kids how to speak their own language today. We continue that. And that's my job as an elder, as an 80-year-old elder, you know. And so there were many of us that got together and worked on this dictionary. And the dictionary was completed with a cooperative venture with a university in Indiana.

So it's called the Dilzhe'e Apache Dictionary App. That's the name of it. D-I-L-Z-H-E apostrophe E Dilzhe'e Apache Dictionary.

You can find it. If you type it in, it'll show up. And it's like an orange-covered book in there.

And you can learn Apache that way too. So everyone should speak their own different second language, you know. Like the foreign people that come here, they speak pretty good English, you know. And that's pretty good to hear a French person come talk English to us. So why don't you learn Apache so that you can talk to me in my own language? Geography is very important, okay.

In our group, a lot of the names that were, all these booths out here have names. They were named after Hualapai people. The Hualapai that live west of us.

And the Havasupai people. The Havasupai people live inside the canyon. Did you know that there's indigenous people living inside the canyon?

Did you know that? There's indigenous people living inside the canyon down the river. About 60 miles, huh? I've been down there. It's really beautiful. They got blue water coming down the cliffs.

Got some nice swimming holes over there. It's really beautiful. And this is part of their land.

And I honor them because I've never lived here, but they lived here inside the canyon. The Hualapai people live up on top of the cliff, like right in this area. If you go straight down here, you'll see them on top, the Hualapai people.

There's a lot of indigenous people that are tied to this area. I talked about this already earlier. So when we talk about geography, geography has a meaning for all of us, right?

When we think about Yosemite Park, when we think about Zion National Park, and we talk about different locations like Niagara Falls, what do we think about Niagara Falls when we think about it? What is that? What is Niagara Falls?

It's water running down, right, cascading down. Well, that's how the Apaches are. When they name mountains, like there's a mountain not too far from where I live.

There's a mountain there called Porcupine Mountain. That's the name of it. That's where our clan lives underneath that mountain. There's a family that used to live there a long time ago. Way, way, way, I'm talking about back in the 1860s, 1870s, the family that lived underneath Porcupine Mountain. That's the name of that mountain because of them.

They named that mountain because of that clan. There's Tsechi, the people from the Red Rock. There's people from Sedona. You ever heard of Sedona? There's a clan that lives there called Tsechi. They used to live there a long time ago, the clan from there. There's another group, the one that I belong to, called Tserutlish, Blue Water. That's Fossil Creek where there's a special water that comes on. It's very, very blue.

It's very pure. You can even drink it as it's coming out of the spring because it's that pure. So all these geographical areas where Apache used to live, they're named after the clans.

So some cities are named after people, aren't they, or families. Another thing that's really important from my perspective because I've always, I grew up with my grandparents. They were very poor people.

I grew up, I'm 80 years old, so I was born in 1944. That was during the war, World War II. So I came to live with my Apache grandparents on the reservation.

One of my mother brought me to the reservation and said, you're going to live with your grandparents. Now I was 2 years old. I don't remember the day that happened, but I lived with them for 14 years. I learned how to speak Apache. I learned to listen to their stories. We lived in a one-room house shack with a kerosene lantern.

We had a wood stove. I was very poor. There was no food to eat sometimes, and it was a struggle.

And that's how life and how tough it was growing up on the reservation. And there wasn't much for me to do except to go to school, which is something that I'm really proud of because I have two college degrees now. I was very lucky to get that. And so I use this education to better my people, to talk to them, and

I'm involved with the culture department with our Yavapai Apache Nation. They called me up and they said, Don, we need a blessing for a new bridge that's coming in, Sedona. Can you go up there? And the head of the Apache culture department, the late Vincent Randall, God bless his soul, he left us about last year, and he is one of the lead speakers at the beginning of a new film.

[Ranger Dan] We Are the Canyon, yeah. So it's a new tribal film inside the park. So every national park, every place you go to has its own film. We have two, one for the overview of the park and now a second for all the tribes that call the canyon home. And Vincent is the first voice that you hear and see in that movie. So I hope you get a chance to go see it because his words are extremely powerful in the opening portion of that film.

[Don Decker] You can see it on YouTube also, right?

[Ranger Dan] Oh yeah, yeah, you can see it on YouTube and you can also see it on the park website.

[Don Decker] What's the name of it?

[Ranger Dan] We Are Grand Canyon.

[Don Decker] We Are Grand Canyon. Would you take a look at that video? It's a beautiful video and it's being shown at the theater over here too. You can schedule yourself and see that. The main thing is to be advocating for the disenfranchised people, you know, and there's a lot of tension going on around the canyon right now. There's a uranium mine that's opening up south of the canyon over here and they're really afraid that some of the uranium water is going to get loose and it's called brachia.

It's a rock formation. They're afraid that some of that refining and digging of uranium using water is going to get in the rock formation and go down to where the Havasupai live down the canyon because that's where the water source is coming from. They're really afraid of that.

So there's a lot of controversy. It's controversial. I promise not to talk anything about controversy, but I wanted to mention that, okay, Daniel?

Because these are the things that are affecting us. We need to advocate for indigenous people, you know, for protection. And it's for all of us too, you know.

We're going through climate change too. So a lot of people say, well, we don't have climate change, you know, but I think it's happening. So we need to be advocating for ourselves really to take care of our own families, our own lives too, and need to bring about a public awareness and look at the issues and find out what the issues are and inform yourself.

You know, a well-informed public, they can advocate and vote the way you should vote, which is to be an advocate for good life, clean life, safe life. These are the things that are important to us, not only for Apaches, but for everyone in the world. It's educating ourselves and looking at the issues and being well-informed.

Those are the things that are important to us. If you ever come to the Yavapai Apache Nation, it's on I-17 between Flagstaff and Phoenix, and you can't miss it because there's a turnoff and there's a sign that says Yavapai Apache Nation. You can take a tour of that area if you're local.

You can also look it up on the Internet, and you can read a little bit about the Yavapai people and the Apache people. We're all one and the same over there. Okay, now, are there any questions that you might have?

[Visitor #1] Yes, go ahead. Sedona, yeah, so we happen to, that was where we stayed for two days before we drove down here, and we did a tour, and we got to know why it was named Sedona. So are they Apache tribe also?

[Don Decker] They're non-Apaches that named the city after a family name, Sedona. But that's where the Apaches lay claim to a lot of the geography, geographical locations that I was talking about, families and different clans that live in the area. Saochi, that's the name of it. There's a place over there called Bell Rock. Have you ever heard of that, Bell Rock? Yeah, we're there.

Yeah, you were there. There's a butte right next to it, Bell Rock. It's called Courthouse Butte.

You saw that, didn't you? Well, Courthouse Butte is an Apache's call. (Speaks Apache)

(Speaks Apache) means eagle sits on top. That's what that means. And some Apaches used to live below that mountain, that little butte there.

That's why they call it (Speaks Apache). So people say, where are you from? Hey, (Speaks Apache), you know.

Hey, I come from Beagle Butte, you know what I mean? That's how the Apache would talk to one another. So remember when I talked about geography, geographical names, that's how Apaches name, that's how that works.

So any other questions? Daniel, you want to cover anything else?

[Ranger Dan] I think we got it here, Don. This has been wonderful. And with the words of Don tonight, I want to thank you, Don, for coming here.

[Don Decker] Thank you, Daniel.

[Ranger Dan] And if you want to meet him in person and see him, he'll be down in the watchtower.

[Ranger Jonah] Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal, lived experiences of Tribal members and do not encompass the views of their Tribal Nation or that of the National Park.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated Tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

In this episode, Don Decker, an elder of the Yavapai-Apache Nation. shares stories about his Apache culture, and the Indigenous names of different landmarks in the region, and how his tribe is working to keep their language alive.

Episode 11

Art Batala Speaks

Transcript

Art Batala Speaks

Art Batala: I think it's very important that everyone knows that we have a strong connection to the Grand Canyon and Grand Canyon is very important to our soul.

Lakin: Hello everyone, welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin

Meranden: and this is Meranden.

Meranden: In this episode, we'd like to introduce you all to Art Batala, who is a Hopi jeweler with over 50 years of experience.

Meranden: He describes his journey as an apprentice serving 10 years in the Marine Corps and attending Western New Mexico University shortly after.

Lakin: Art also explains the cultural significance of designs in Hopi Jewelry as well as the importance of sustaining traditional knowledge.

Meranden: Thank you for checking out this episode and we hope you enjoy.

Art Batala: Thank you very much for being here. As stated earlier, I am Art Batala. I'm from the Hopi tribe, which is just about 100 miles west of here. I was born and raised there and as I told the gentleman here a little earlier, that I'm probably the last generation that speak my language fluently. That's unfortunate, but it is how it is today. I've learned how to create jewelry.

Art Batala: I actually don't like the term silversmith. I like to use a jeweler because it is jewelry that I do. What I said earlier about myself, I've learned how to create jewelry as soon as I graduated from high school, which was in 1973. In 1974, I learned about this apprenticeship program out on the Hopi that was put on by, most of them were World War II veterans. They've learned how to create their style of jewelry soon after the war. I learned that they needed a way of bringing in income to support their families.

Art Batala: This was a way that they found was quite meaningful to them. They started creating jewelry and later on, they came up with the idea of teaching the younger generation on how to make this jewelry. That's where this apprenticeship program came to be. I learned about it soon after I graduated from high school. I took advantage of it. I began creating the jewelry.

Art Batala: Of course, we had to learn the process first. In learning the process, our teachers made us cut different jewelry out of brass because brass is very hard to cut. It got us used to how to handle the jeweler's saw. That was pretty much the idea behind that. Once our cutting was satisfied, they were satisfied with our cutting, then we graduated to copper. Of course, copper is very soft.

Art Batala: We made the jewelry out of copper. This place where the apprenticeship program was, whatever jewelry we made out of brass and copper, they sold it to the public. That's how the program funded itself. Anyway, I've been doing jewelry ever since then. I went into the military soon after. I spent 10 years in the Marine Corps.

Art Batala: During that time, I still did my best to keep doing jewelry. After my time in the Marine Corps ended, I left and decided to go back to school. I entered college, Western New Mexico University in Silver City, New Mexico. I graduated with a bachelor's degree in business administration. I've been doing administrative management since then. During the meantime, I still did my jewelry just to stay on top of it.

Art Batala: They told me that it's like learning how to ride a bike, but sometimes it gets difficult. Don't believe that. Making jewelry is pretty difficult. It requires a lot of patience. In my view, it requires being in tune with who you are. When you see my jewelry, my jewelry, the designs come from nature itself.

Art Batala: We use the cloud symbols a lot and the water waves. Although there's no ocean, as you can see around here, this part of the world, and you ask, why the water wave? Because generally, water waves represent oceans. When it rains out on the reservation, we see trickles of water going down a little stream, and you could see the little water waves. That's where the water waves come from. We just enhance it a little bit more to make the complete circle.

Art Batala: That's where the water waves come from. As far as other design that I do, like I said, it comes from my upbringing, my cultural upbringing, and my traditional upbringing. As we boys, as we grow up, we are initiated into the various societies as we're growing up in Hopi. And so, having gone through that, I've learned all there is, not all there is, but I learned a lot of insight into my religion and what it encompasses. My designs come from that aspect too because of the water waves and the prayer feathers that I do. A lot of my designs have prayer feathers.

Art Batala: That's where my creation of jewelry comes from. A lot of it's traditional, religious, and just basically cultural upbringing. We make mesas on a bracelet. We make the mesas. A lot of it comes from our way of life. That's how we grew up.

Art Batala: Finding out about this Native [American] demonstrations here was back in 2017, I believe it was, when I first came here. I saw the young lady in the back at that time. I met her, a ranger. So, you know, it's been a good experience for me here. I appreciate the National Park Service in acknowledging all the Natives who have connections to the Grand Canyon. So, I really do appreciate that. So, that's me in general and where I came from and where I am today.

Ranger Lizzy: Thank you, Art. That's fantastic, honestly. And I know you're wearing a piece of your jewelry now. Can you describe it for our audience here?

Art Batala: This piece of jewelry represents the corn. I'll pass it around or you can pass it around. Thank you. Anyway, most often times when I do corn, corn is the primary staple of my tribe. We plant corn. You know, we've got the blue, the white corn, the yellow corn, as well as other Natives. You know, they also plant a lot of corn. So, that's where the corn comes from, the symbol. And in here, I've also put these feathers. They represent feathers from an eagle, the eagle's tail feathers. And up here also. And off to the side, you see the black triangular shapes. They represent what you see now, dark clouds. That's what it represents. And I love doing corn because my father was of the corn clan.

Art Batala: In my tribe, we belong to different clans. I'm Coyote. I'm a Coyote clan because my mother was a Coyote clan. But my father was a corn clan. So, I love to do a lot of corn and pay tribute to my father, my late father. So, and the tips here, usually we put tips on bolos as weights. So, it'll hold the cord down. And I completely make everything on here myself. This is all sterling silver.

Art Batala: If you want to take another look at it, it'll be here. So, and also, I want to show another piece of jewelry. Where is my assistant? Maybe perhaps you can show. That is a lot of people refer to it as a cuff. I always refer to it as a bracelet.

Art Batala: So, that bracelet itself, you know, came from my area. This site with the designs, there's a lot of petroglyphs around our area. So, I visit some of these petroglyphs, you know, at various times. And that particular petroglyph is on the walls. And it represents a blanket. It's called the blanket design. So, that's the first time I ever came up with that design. The sides, they represent, also represent the black clouds.

Art Batala: And the lines down, coming down, represents the horizons. So, and the sun in the middle here is raised up a portion from the main bracelet itself, which is pretty hard to do, you know, when you're making this. You know, most of the time, when you're doing something like that, you put too much heat on it and the inside of it starts to, you know, melt. So, yeah, it's a tedious work. But, you know, after years of experience, it's possible, as you can see.

Ranger Lizzy: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. And, you know, you talk a lot about how your culture and your family and your upbringing really has influenced your designs. Can you tell me a little bit about your relationship with your father and how he has been an influence in your life?

Art Batala: My father was a very hard worker, in my opinion. He had a full-time job. He was a heavy equipment operator with the Arizona Department of Transportation. And he worked for 40 some odd years before retiring. And all of it was with ADOT. He said he took over my grandfather's job. At that time, I guess, you don't have to apply and wait for years to get into it. But his father, my grandfather, taught him how to operate. At the time, it was the old cable-operated heavy equipment. So that must have been very difficult. As opposed to now, everything is automatic. But anyway, my father did that year in and year out.

Art Batala: And during the wintertime, although we don't get very much snow, sometimes we do get a lot of snow. And my father was always on the road making sure the public was safe. You know, anybody that ran off into a ditch, you know, he would be helping them in the middle of the night or three o'clock in the morning. And during the times when our religion calls, you know, my father would, after a full night's work, he would come home and go straight to the kiva to do his responsibilities as a man that had gotten initiated into society. So, you know, doing that all those 40 years that he was employed is amazing.

Art Batala: You know, he also planted corn. Like I told you earlier, everyone plants corn. And during the day, he would go down there where he's not working, especially on weekends. That's where he would be all day in the hot sun. But he was a man that was dedicated to family. I had four other siblings, all of them older. I'm the youngest of the family. And we lost a brother some time ago, years ago. So now, unfortunately, I lost my oldest sister not too long ago.

Art Batala: But, you know, my father was a man who looked to ensure that we are eating, you know, we are going to school, we are learning what we can learn to eventually feed ourselves, you know, so to speak. And so, you know, my dad was a man's man in my terms. He worked hard for a living and he made sure we all had a roof over our heads. And also he was true to his religion. So that's my dad. That's why I admire him. And I looked up to him and, of course, missed him when he was gone.

Ranger Lizzy: Yeah, I think, you know, you hear so much when you talk about your father, you hear how he's really committed to his family and his community. And when we were talking, I could see that from you as well. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your commitment to your community and your relationship with your community and the next generation as well.

Art Batala: And I stated earlier that as a man or as a male, we grow up getting initiated into different societies. And these societies, you know, require a lot of personal commitments. And so I've done my part of that in my growing up years. I've gotten into some initiated into some societies that I that I enjoyed doing. But when you get to being my age, you know, you find out that your stamina isn't quite there. And in performing our responsibilities to these societies, you know, you have to be out there, out there in the open and, you know, taking your prayer feathers out to certain locations.

Art Batala: About five years ago, I found that I couldn't do it anymore because of the hot sun. And it drains you completely. And so what happens is when you get into that situation, we mentor our nephews. We mentor our nephews the same way that we were mentored in the kivas. And so when a time comes for when a time comes where you aren't able to perform your responsibilities, then that's when your nephews must step up. And so that's what I've done.

Art Batala: I've picked my eldest nephew to continue what I was doing as an initiated man. But during the course of time, I was like my father. I made sure my children were fed. I made sure my children got an education. I made sure that my mother is well. And, you know, I made sure that I have a crop.

Art Batala: I also planted when I was growing up. And so, you know, like I said earlier, it's a lot of responsibility when you're a man on the Hopi Reservation. And when you're dedicated to your religion, you know, it becomes difficult. And there's a lot of balancing act that we do with the modern world and in keeping our traditions alive. And so, you know, we as Hopi have never really exploited ourselves completely to the public. We have always maintained our isolation.

Art Batala: And I believe that is the reason why our traditions, our customs have survived this long. I can pretty much say that I believe the Hopi tribe is the only tribe in the United States that still maintains and practice our religion as it was taught to us by our forefathers. You know, we still maintain that closeness of the kiva.

Art Batala: And that's where this balancing act becomes difficult. You know, our children have been born into this modern society and it's very demanding. You know, how we cope with that is, you know, you have to make sure that everyone understands each other's responsibility.

Art Batala: And, you know, the women themselves also, you know, get initiated into a lot of societies. And so my sisters in growing up, they also got initiated into these societies, the ladies’ societies. But oftentimes, you know, they need men. They need men for certain things that they can't do. And so we as men have to step up and help them. So that's another responsibility in itself.

Art Batala: So, you know, I like to think that in growing up, being a father, and now being a grandfather, I have stepped into my father's shoes and lived my life the way he had lived. And I'm glad to say that I have, you know, lived the life of my dad and in making sure that my surroundings is well. My children and now my grandchildren, my sisters, my mother. So I felt that I have achieved that goal of mine to be like my father.

Ranger Lizzy: Wow, that's fantastic. You know, we talked a lot about the importance of education and passing down information from one generation to the next. As you're working with this next generation, you know, getting closer to your grandchildren, what gives you, what are your hopes and what are your concerns for the younger generation?

Art Batala: Life on Hopi, as we know it, has changed and things aren't as they were when I was growing up. You know, and so I have to take an honest look at everything and, you know, make sure that my grandchildren get the best of education that can possibly be had. You know, balancing these modern day things that is necessary for young children to become who they really want to be.

Art Batala: You know, I am now, like I said, a grandfather and I am an elected official for my tribe. And as an elected official, I feel it is my responsibility to look at our school system to see that we have the best education possible for our grandchildren as they're growing up. And so I continue to do that, you know, whenever we talk about children.

Art Batala: You know, children need a lot of direction in this complicated world we live in. And so I'd like to be there for them, whomever it may be. It doesn't have to be my grandchildren, because I look at it as from the standpoint that they're somebody's grandchildren. So all grandchildren are precious and important. So that's what I'd like to continue to be is some kind of not necessarily role model, but an important part of a learning process for them. Yeah.

Ranger Lizzy: You know, so you talked about being an elected official, and I know that you serve on the Hopi Tribal council. Can you tell us what does tribal council mean and what is your position?

Art Batala: Tribal councils were set up by the federal government because in giving the Native American tribes an opportunity to govern themselves and to, you know, take advantage of some of these funding availability, whether it's state, county, or the national level. And when you have grant monies coming in from those sources, every time, any time grant monies are to be used on various Native lands, the tribal councils must approve in those grant funds. And so that's primarily our responsibility.

Art Batala: However, we are also faced with a lot of other, I don't really want to say problems, but I guess it's kind of like a challenge, a lot of challenges that we're facing. And, you know, we continue to have our challenges with our neighbors, you know, the Navajo. It has always been like that, a challenge, to be honest.

Art Batala: But I have to say that right now, today, about a month ago, we had come upon a great achievement, a very historic event, where the three tribes who have always been in adverse situations against each other, we have come up with a solution that all the tribes have been faced with since, gosh, since the 50s, the Little Colorado River. We have always been fighting over quantification of our rights to the Little Colorado River. And so about a month ago, the Navajo Nation, Hopi Tribe, and the San Juan Southern Paiute all signed Little Colorado River Water Settlement Agreement. And so right now, that is the highest level that we can get into moving forward to becoming partners. And I thought that that was a good, great achievement. And I feel proud to be on the council that approved that water settlement.

Art Batala: It opens up the doors to a more cordial relationship from here on. And I like that. But there certainly is still a lot more challenges that we face as a tribe. But we are trying to look for ways to make sure that our tribe survives into the future going forward. It's difficult, but not impossible. You know, nothing is impossible. If there's something that is going to better your lives, it's going to be made possible. So those are the challenges and, you know, the great achievements that I have. And I feel honored to be serving on the Tribal Council today.

Ranger Lizzy: That's really incredible. And yeah, hearing about the recent water settlement is just amazing. As you're talking about, you know, looking towards the future and the ways that tribes can survive and Hopi tribe can survive and flourish. How do you see that like in the future? What ways are those?

Art Batala: You know, that's a difficult question to answer. But there are opportunities out there. And, you know, some of those opportunities will have to be addressed. For example, I sit on our Hopi Tribal Gaming Committee, and we have resisted the idea of gaming all these years. We have had two referendums on the Hopi Reservation. Both times, the idea of gaming had been voted down. And it is primarily because of our culture. Our elderly, most of them were elderly that voted against gaming. They feel that it is not our place to go into this kind of revenue generating opportunity.

Art Batala: They feel that it's akin to what they describe as getting blood money, you know, getting income, you know, from those people who have gotten addicted to gaming and will spend their last dollar on gaming. And so those were kind of the reasons why gaming was really frowned upon. But our revenues have really greatly been reduced because of the Peabody mine closure.

Art Batala: Over 75% of our annual income derived from Peabody mining on the Black Mesa. And so when the Peabody mine closed, it took a dramatic, it hit us in a dramatic way. And so we're now struggling. And so upon getting on the Tribal Council, my colleagues asked me if I would chair the gaming committee and perhaps look into the idea of gaming, because it is now what we refer to as our last hope to bring in revenue. You know, and so what we did was we went out into the villages. We have 12 villages on the Hopi Reservation, and they all have their administrations.

Art Batala: And so that's where we went and, you know, got to get feedback from the boards of directors that run their administration and the public to see what their views are on gaming. When we were finished doing those presentations, all 12 villages unanimously is approving gaming, the idea of gaming. So that's when we started going full throttle with gaming.

Art Batala: There's still a lot of work to be done, but we're making progress. And I've been sharing all this with my wife, so she knows all about it, about me as a chairperson of the gaming. But you know, it's a challenge, but I tell people regarding gaming, a lot of different people have asked us, you know, not necessarily Hopi, but non-Hopi, non-Natives, you know, why gaming?

Art Batala: And my answer to them is, you know, at this point in time, we have to survive going into the future. The tribal government has to survive. And although there are many views against gaming, it is truly our last resort. So right now, as we see it, most, if not all of our tribal members are in approval of going gaming. So that's where that lies.

Ranger Lizzy: Yeah, and that kind of brings us back to the beginning of our conversation earlier in this program, when we were talking about how do you balance traditional life with the modern world? You know, because there are all the challenges, the economy and all that. We are just coming kind of towards the end of the program, so I would love to ask just one last question, which is, what would you like our visitors today to take away from this program and our conversation?

Art Batala: To gain knowledge of who we are as Natives and how we are connected to the Grand Canyon. I think it's very important that everyone knows that we have a strong connection to the Grand Canyon. And Grand Canyon is very important to our soul. You know, it's really important. And, you know, I really appreciate the National Park Service for putting on these Native demonstrations, wherein we interact with tourists coming in here from all parts of the world and learning about who we are, learning about our arts and crafts, because our arts and crafts are, tells everybody who we are, where we're coming from as a people. And it's great that we interact with all the people that come here.

Art Batala: A lot of them ask a lot of questions, which is important that they understand us, who we are. So, you know, I do really appreciate, you know, the National Park Service for, you know, doing this for Native Americans. And, you know, it's an opportunity that is open to all the artisans, all the weavers, in every aspect of artwork. And perhaps not just necessarily, you know, being artwork or craftspeople, but coming here and sharing their views about who they are, just to be here as people.

Ranger Lizzy: And Art, can you tell me, can you tell us a little bit about your relationship to Grand Canyon and the Hopi relationship to Grand Canyon?

Art Batala: My relationship with the Grand Canyon is from a traditional aspect of my life. I spent my entire life, you know, practicing my religion. And the Grand Canyon here is foremost, the most important place of worship that we can do, because here, I don't know how far it is.The confluence is like, what, 12 miles up there?

Ranger Lizzy: Yeah, 15 miles.

Art Batala: 15 miles.

Ranger Lizzy: I think.

Art Batala: The confluence, you know, where the Little Colorado River meets up with the Colorado River, that's the confluence. And just about half a mile into the Little Colorado is where we call the place of emergence. And that's probably the only definitive way we can say that, because it is so important.

Art Batala: We will not go into depth about the exact locations. It's just that we emerged from this part of the world, and it's our birthplace. That's why I have this close ties to the Grand Canyon, having been growing up, doing my religion, practicing my religion.

Art Batala: And, you know, I think it's a great spiritual place. And I thank the National Park again for bringing this alive to everybody. So that's what I would like everybody to know, is my spiritual connection as a Hopi.

Ranger Lizzy: Well, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

Ranger Jonah: Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park. To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices visit www.NPS.gov/grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai Tribe the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

In this episode, Ranger Lizzy sat down with Art Batala who is a Hopi jeweler with over 50 years of experience. Art describes his journey which started as an apprentice, learning under the guidance of World War II Veterans. He also speaks about his relationship with his father and how that influenced his upbringing and role as a leader in his community.

Episode 12

Leona Begishie Speaks

Transcript

Leona Begishie Speaks

Leona Begishie: We don't have any native teachers at our school, so they kind of connect with me. And so, they're a little more open, they're a little more at ease because I look like maybe grandma or their aunt or their mom. And so that part, although all of the academics, math, ELA, all that is important, but it makes them at ease when they see me.

Meranden: Hello everybody, welcome to Grand Canyon Speaks. My name is Meranden.

Dan: And I'm Dan.

Meranden: In today's episode, Ranger Lizzie spoke with Leona Begishie, who was the Native American aide at the Grand Canyon School.

Dan: Yeah, she is Diné and greatly supported the Native American students by bringing cultural awareness to the teachers and staff, planning events for Native American Heritage Month, and providing a safe space throughout their time at the school.

Meranden: We hope you enjoy this week's episode, and thank you for tuning in.

Dan: And here's Leona Begishie.

Leona: Yes, my name is Leona Begishie, and my clans are Salt people, and I'm related to the Rock Gap people. And my grandfathers are the Zuni Edgewater, and my paternal grandfathers are the Bitterwater people.

So, in Navajo, I would say, (Introduces self in Diné). That's what makes me a woman. That's the woman that I am, that lets other people know in our nation that, oh, then they might say, recognize kinship, you know, oh, you're my mother, you're my daughter, you're my, you know, grandma.

So that kind of sets up those relationships with other people. Thank you.

Ranger Lizzie: Thanks, Leona.

So tonight, Leona is coming and joining us just from the village. She works at Grand Canyon School, and I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about the school and your position there.

Leona: So, the Grand Canyon School is a pre-K-12 school, and our school is the only school that is within national park boundaries.

There is a school in Utah, but they're in a national recreation area. So, this is actually a national park, and so it differentiates a little bit, but we're the only pre-K-12 school in any park, and people are always surprised. You know, I do crosswalk, and they'd say, are these kids school kids, you know, when I'm at the crosswalk? And I'm like, yeah, and they're really surprised by that, that we do have a school here.

My title is Native American Aid. What has happened is the school will get a grant for the Native students that attend the school, and within those regulations, rules of those grants, you have to have a group of a parent group, a Native American group, in order to receive the money. You have to have that group in place, and that group has decided to use the funding, and they can use, they decide how to use that funding, and one of the things that they decided to do was bring in a Native American aid to help the children.

And so that's how that position came to be. And I do assist teachers sometimes, but my job primarily at the school is to look, kind of watch how our Native American kids are doing, and if they need some assistance, extra assistance with anything, English, math, writing, I'll go to their classroom, I'll pull them out, and I'll work with them either one-on-one, or sometimes I pull a whole group and work with them, and I'll just be like, just reinforce some of the things that they're learning in the classroom already. One of the things that I do also is, at the beginning of the year, we hold trainings for all the teachers and the staff.

Usually it has to do with animals, like with our tribe, our nation, we don't, you don't mess with snakes, so a lot of parents say, don't let my child look at a snake, and some are okay with it, some are a little more relaxed, but there are others that say no, absolutely no snakes, or owls, you know, we don't want our kids to look at owls or be around owls. And those are the two animals that are, that parents really emphasize, please be careful with these animals, because the owl is a messenger, so they're more, they want to be more careful with an owl. So, an owl is a messenger of, you know, bad things that could happen, or it could be a messenger of death, so they really, you know, ask the school to really respect that.

And the good thing with our school is they really do. When we get materials, they kind of vet the materials with, like, what kind of pictures are on there, or what videos are on there, you know, they respect that. So that's, and eclipses, you know, we can't be out in an eclipse, so they just take that into consideration, maybe when they're doing the calendar for the school year, that type of thing. So, it's a really good school.

Ranger Lizzie: Awesome. Can you tell me a little bit more about some of the programming that you do around, like, Native American Heritage Month?

Leona: So Native American Heritage Month is in November, and starting in October, what I do is, I usually communicate with the art teacher, and we do different activities.

It could be learning how to bead bracelets, or weaving, or making pottery, dioramas. We do some research on other tribes within the area, or even throughout the United States. And so they learn about different groups of people.

And I have all of the students do it, not just our Native students, and they get really excited about it. This year, we actually had them make moccasins. Some of them actually wore them, which was really cool on Heritage Day.

So that's one component of our Heritage Month. And then in November, we have one week where, it's almost like a spirit week, it's the only way I can describe it, you know, where one day we might have Hairdo Day, where, because the different nations that are here, wear their hair in different styles. So, we'll have these different types of hairdos throughout the whole school for that day.

Moccasin Day, Jewelry Day, and then at the end of the week, we just have a whole, you know, dress-up and regalia day. And on that day, we usually have a program that we put on, you know, where the kids are singing, or they're doing a poem, or they're dancing. I do, we have a Cherokee girl that goes to our school, and she's very interested in her culture.

She's not exposed to it, so she'll ask me to do some research, and she'll say, can we do a dance from my tribe? And so, then I'll have to learn how to do a Cherokee dance, because I'm not, you know, I don't have that information. So, I'll have to look it up and do some research. So, we did like a bear dance, and we did a horse dance last year.

So, we have all these different tribes, and of course, all these people, groups of people speak different languages. And so, what I do is I grab all these kids, and I'll say, okay, what would you like to do this year? And you know, they'll say, oh, we want to dance. So, we learn a dance, and then I teach them, if they want to sing, I teach them a song.

And the songs that we learn are all Navajo songs. And the reason why we learn Navajo songs is because I'm Navajo, or Diné is what we call ourselves. And I'm really forced to say Navajo, because that's what people know, right? Like outside of our group of our people, everywhere, you see Navajo reservation signs, you know, and on maps, it says Navajo reservation.

So, I always say Navajo, just so it's familiar to everyone else. But we call ourselves Diné people. So, I teach these kids from different tribes a Navajo song.

So, what I'm really surprised with is that they pick it up really quickly. And these kids don't speak Navajo. And some of them don't even speak their own language, but they pick it up so fast.

And that was one of the things that was really interesting to me. And I really thought it was really cool. And they pick it up the first time we get together.

And then so then they've got like about a month to learn the songs. So, one of the songs that I thought was cute was, it's a song about a puppy. And I just like, I kind of want to sing that song because it's a children's song, right? So, and it's very short.

And every song that we sing, you sing it, we repeat it four times. Because four is a sacred number for the Diné people. So, but I'm not only going to do two.

And that was one of the things that had come up, which I thought was really neat. I had asked the kids, I said, you know, four is a sacred number for us. So, every song that you sing, you do it, you repeat it four times.

And I said, but due to time constraints, I said, I think we should sing it twice. Only two times. And they were like, no, no, no, don't do that.

No, let's sing it four times because that's how you're supposed to do it. So even though they don't know a lot, some of them don't know a lot about their culture or traditions, they were respecting mine, right? So, they were respecting mine and they were saying, let's do it four times. But I'm just going to sing it twice for you.

Just repeat it twice. So, it goes. (sings Diné song) So that's the song that they learned.

And that's, like I said, surprising to me. It was surprising in a really good way. So that was an interesting something that I learned.

Ranger Lizzie: Thank you for sharing your song. And it's about a puppy?

Leona: It's about a puppy. It talks about how he eats so much that he drags his stomach when he's walking because he's so fat and his ears flop. And then he steps on his tail, you know, because his tail is long. And that's what it and he follows me around all day long. That's the that's the song.

Ranger Lizzie: Oh, that's really cute. Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. You know, I think this is like just such a cool position. And I we talked a little bit about this yesterday. Can you just tell us, like in your experience, why is this important?

Leona: The position to me over the years that I've been teach or been there and helping teach these kids and just kind of support them is they see me and a lot of their teachers are from different groups of people. And so, they see me, and we don't have any native teachers at our school. So, they kind of connect with me.

And so, they're a little more open. They're a little more at ease because I look like maybe grandma or their aunt or their mom. And so that part, although all of the academics, math, ELA, all that is important, but it makes them at ease when they see me.

So, when I come into their room and they're willing, they're like, OK, we're going to go, you know, even though we're repeating whatever it is that we had already been taught, they really want to come with me. And a lot of times, you know, a lot of kids might be having a bad day, and they won't tell anyone but me. They'll come because they're at ease with me.

And so that also kind of brings a little bit of support in maybe emotionally, you know, and I grew up just like these some of these kids, actually, and I'll let them know, you know, I know how it is. You know, I know how it is not to have a lot of food. I know how it is to want things and not have the resources to get them right.

And I've been there, and I know how you're feeling. So, I think that connection with them really helps. And I just really love being there.

And they're so loving. You know, they're always willing to give a hug. And another thing, too, is I bring a lot of their cultures, you know, a lot of traditions.

We talk about, you know, what grandma's house might be like, you know, because a lot of them, it's difficult for them to write. We don't say the horse is white. We say it, you know, it's flipped around.

So, we say horse white as opposed to white horse. So, when they're writing, sometimes even though they may not speak their language, which is really interesting to me, but they will do that. They'll flip their words around.

And so, we talk about that, you know, like when you write, you say white horse as opposed to horse white. And so, some of those things they don't understand. And so, I'll say, and that's OK.

But, you know, we need to really read the sentence to make sure that it makes sense when you're writing it, because that's what your teacher's looking for. The Dine language is very descriptive. You know, everything that we have the names for are descriptive.

And that's what the name is, right? That's, you know, a green tree. You know, we don't really say, although there are words now for it. We have a word now for computer or a phone.

And we had to make those up because, of course, we didn't have any of those. But they're just descriptive. And so, when they're writing, they're not they're not understanding.

OK, my house is big. You know, they want the teachers want more than that. So, I always tell them your teachers would like you to put more adjectives in there, more descriptive words.

And so, what I do is I'll pull them, and I'll say, OK, we're all going to close our eyes. And even though these kids live here on the weekends or on the long holidays, they'll go to grandma's house on the reservation. So, they'll say, close your eyes and they'll close their eyes, and they'll say, OK, so let's think about grandma's house.

What do you hear? What do you see? What does it feel like? You know, and they'll describe, oh, grandma's making, you know, breakfast or something. What does it sound like? What does it smell like? And they'll tell me all that. And I say, OK, go out the door.

Let's start walking. I always use the corral. And I always say, OK, go to the corral, start walking towards the corral.

And what do you smell? And that's the big thing. And they always get a laugh out of it because they say, what do you smell first? And they're like, we smell the sheep poop. Right.

That's what they say. And you and you do. And that really is you do as you're walking over there.

The first thing that hits you is the sheep poop, and they laugh about it. But then they go and they, you know, describe the corral and say, see all of that that you're telling me. That is what we want in your sentences.

So, then they go, oh, OK. So, then they'll add more to their sentence. So, I think that really helps them that I come in with that information and have them go, you know this.

Right. So now we just need to angle it where they understand what we want them to do. And I think in this position that I'm in, that's what helps them.

And so, this position is a unique one and that really helps them. And I'm really glad that I worked there actually to help them go, oh, OK, I know what you're talking about now. Right. So, I think that's really cool.

Ranger Lizzie: Yeah, I think that's so incredible. And you form these really close relationships to these students.

I know that you get to work for them from when they're, you know, in kindergarten up until they're in fifth grade, right?

Leona: Kindergarten to fifth grade. Yeah.

Ranger Lizzie: And then you still see them.

Leona: And I still see them in middle school and high school.

Ranger Lizzie: Can you tell me a little bit about how your relationships have grown or how you've seen kids grow as you work with them?

Leona: Well, the last year, the seniors from last year was the first group of kids that I worked with when I started. So, I was I grew up close to here.

And so, when I first started working at the school again, because we were here, then moved a couple of places and came back. So, this first group of kids that I worked with, they were in. Eighth grade, I believe, or seventh grade, and they graduated last year.

And so, I felt so like I kept saying, this is my first group of kids that were here when I started here again. And I was really emotional about it. So, I made stoles for a Native American stoles and I because I so I sewed them stoles and they really appreciated it.

It was really nice to, you know, and it was beautiful. And, of course, but these kids, I do form relationships with them and they're and I'm kind of sad, but they're sad because I'm moving. And so next year in August, when they come back, I'm not going to be there.

But these kids are like one kindergarten kid came up to me this year and said, and he's in summer school and he says, is today your last day? And he was about to cry. And I said, no crying. And he said, and I said, no, no, no.

I said, not till the end of summer school. And he goes, oh, OK, you know, and then ran off. But I formed those relationships that at the younger the younger level, and then they go through fifth grade.

And those relationships just grow. And even when they get to middle school, I have a student in middle school who really respects and he'll call his other teachers, you know, by their last name or just by their first name. But when he sees me, he always says, this is because she, you know, and he's always very respectful.

So those relationships are just so special to me. And even the kids that graduated this year is another group that I worked from here on out would be all the kids that I've worked with. I'm going to miss all of them, of course.

Ranger Lizzie: Yeah, I think that's so special. And it is sad even just to see you leaving at the end of this year, kind of when working with this next generation, you know, what concerns or worries do you have kind of looking up at the next generation?

Leona: Well, the —my concerns and my worries and hope as well. And I know we had talked about that.

And I had when I was in the boarding school, I went to boarding school on the reservation. And when I was in the boarding school, slowly, I went to kindergarten. And when I entered kindergarten, I only spoke Navajo.

And I know that I probably knew some English words like very simple. Yes, no. And satellite.

And that's interesting because my dad knew about satellites. I had no idea what they were. I just knew satellites.

And he would say we'd be outside, and he'd say, look at the stars. And we'd see this one just flying. And he goes, oh, that's a satellite.

So, I knew that I knew satellite. So, when I went into kindergarten, I could not form a sentence in English at all. So, I only know I knew Navajo.

And when I was there, we're learning this new language. And I'm like, oh, and it's so regimented. You know, it's like you've got to learn all this stuff.

And then you go back to your dormitory where you we sleep and, you know, then we eat and then we play and then all over, you know, just same thing next day. As I'm going through the school system, I start becoming really ashamed and really embarrassed that I'm Navajo. And I'm like, oh, I wish I was a born Navajo.

You know, I kept saying, oh, I don't like it because it's so difficult for me. And I would say that. And so, when I see that, I kind of am seeing slowly, slowly, slowly, our traditions and our language and our culture just kind of being peeled away a little bit because we're learning this new thing, this new way to live.

And so, my I see it now and I kind of saw it as I was getting older. So, I see it now with these kids, but they'll say we don't speak the language. We don't, you know, go to ceremonies or we don't do prayers in our language.

So slowly, these kids are like they have no clue. And that's one of my worries is that you see that as they're coming up. They have no clue on their traditions and their cultures and languages.

So that's one of my worries is that we're just going to lose all of it. And so, as I got older, until I became an adult, I was like, wait a minute. This is special.

Another, and I was a little more curious of our traditions and our cultures and our language because of the Navajo Code Talkers. So that was interesting to me, like, really? And it's interesting to read some of the words that they use. And I was like, wait a minute.

This is something to be proud of, right? This is something they had come back to us and said, develop something. And they did. Our Code Talkers did.

They developed; we already had the language. It was not written. So, they had to use the current alphabet to write some of those words down.

So that's how they created the written language because it was always just oral. So that kind of got me back to going, OK, now I know this. It's really special.

And so, I need to tell these kids because a lot of them don't know. So, I tell them, this is special. You know, you're special.

Your language is special.

Ranger Lizzie: Absolutely. I really like the way that you're just cultivating a culture of pride, kind of looking at that future generation.

We talked about some of the concerns, and then you also say they're giving you hope. In what ways do they give you hope?

Leona: I had talked about the hope and these kids, like I had said, they grow up here and they're not really learning their language or part of their cultures, but they are really good. And I'm not in this group, but they are very good artists.

I said, I really like that we have an art program at our school because these kids can draw really well. And what they do is, even though they might not participate in cultural events, they do wear their regalia, and they notice their regalia. You know, like, what am I wearing? What patterns do I have? You know, what are the different, the pottery? You know, what designs are in the pottery? And they notice that.

And so, when they're drawing, then they use some of those things, their outfits, their jewelry. They use some of those shapes and colors in the different art that they produce. And so, my hope is that they go, okay, this is what's specific to me and my people, and they use it in their art.

And I'm hoping, really, really hoping that they go, oh, I want to learn more about that. And I want to learn more about maybe my traditions. Why do we have these different designs on like the wedding baskets? And there's stories behind all that.

So, art has a big thing to do with it, because that's where they seem to connect a little bit.

Ranger Lizzie: Yeah, that's fantastic. And just kind of seeing them through that process. And, you know, we're here at Grand Canyon and you work at the school, and I wanted to talk to you a little bit also about your relationship with this park and this place, you know, bigger than the park as well. So, can you tell me a little bit about, yeah, your relationship with Grand Canyon growing up and now?

Leona: Um, so Grand Canyon is our reservation if you look that way to the east a little bit across the canyon, that's where the Navajo reservation is.

And so, I live about 30 minutes from here. It's where I grew up in Cameron. It's a very, if you blinked, you missed it.

It's very small. And that's where I grew up. So, we are close to the canyon.

And so, every time that we come to the canyon, there was always something that we needed. And it was never about, oh, let's go look at the canyon for its beauty, right? When we already, it's like, yeah, it is beautiful. However, it kind of comes back to Mother Earth, like Mother Earth is what gives us the things that we need.

So, my relationship with the Grand Canyon, when I think about it, when we come here, we came as a family. So that tie is really strong. So, when I think of Grand Canyon, I think home and family, because that's my connection. That's my, that's what we did when we came up here.

Ranger Lizzie: Thank you for sharing.

Leona: You're welcome.

Ranger Lizzie: So, we're kind of coming to the end of our program here. Just as a final question, is there anything that you want our audience tonight to take away from our conversation here?

Leona: Just the awareness of the different types of people. You know, just the, I guess it's, I'm not really sure about, you know, like you guys are from different countries. Like what, what is it that are, that you want to know? Is there anything that you would like to know about this area that you had not known before? And I'm glad that you have these programs so people can say, oh yeah, she was from, you know, the Diné Nation and she's helping her kids, you know, the little kids. And just knowing more about the past, I guess, is what it would be.

Ranger Lizzie: Fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you everyone for coming out and listening. Enjoy the sunset.

Leona: Thank you. Thanks.

Ranger Jonah: Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy.

A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the national park. To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/grca.

Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

Leona Begishie tells about her impactful experiences working at the Grand Canyon School as the Native American Aide, her relationship with her Diné culture, and how the Grand Canyon means “family” to her. Leona supported the Native American students by bringing cultural awareness to the teachers and staff.

Episode 13

Dan Pawlak Speaks

Transcript

Season 2 Episode 13 - Dan Pawlak Speaks Transcript

Daniel Pawlak: One of the biggest things that needs to happen is a desire from the public to say, "hey, is this happening at the National Park Service site? Are you working with tribal communities? What's your relationship like to the people who call this land home?

And what do you do about it?" So, taking this message and applying it to other parks or monuments, historic sites, battlefields even, that's something we need to see from the public in order to get that inspiration.

Ranger Mark: Welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Ranger Mark.

Ranger Eliana: And this is Ranger Eliana.

Ranger Mark: In this episode, Ancestral Lands Conservation Corps interns Lakin and Meranden sat down with Dan Pawlak, a ranger here at Grand Canyon National Park and the coordinator of the Cultural Demonstration Program.

Ranger Eliana: Dan talks about his experience at Grand Canyon and what's led him from teething to working with the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon.

Ranger Mark: He also shares his stories and relationships he has built with demonstrators over the years and where he hopes to see this program go in the future.

Ranger Eliana: Take a listen to Dan's journey and enjoy.

Dan Pawlak: Hello, everyone. My name is Dan Pawlak, and I am the Cultural Demonstration Program Manager for Grand Canyon National Park. It is my job to work with the 11 associated tribes to bring them out to the park and provide a place to share their stories, their culture, and their experiences in their own words through this program that is now 11 years old.

Dan Pawlak: I also would like to share that I'm from Minnesota, and I do not have a relation to any of the tribes here that call the canyon home. So, this podcast focuses on the tribes, but I know it's a special one this evening since I run the program, but I'm not a tribal member associated with Grand Canyon, so I want to make that also clear. My history with the National Park Service, I just celebrated 10 years with the agency overall in April, which is really fun, and I have worked from Alaska with the U.S. government over to Kentucky, primarily in caves, and then also here as a seasonal at Grand Canyon in 2016-17 and this job since 2021 that I'm now in.

Meranden: Nice. So, you said 10 years, but how long have you been the Cultural Demonstration Manager for? Dan Pawlak: I have been managing this program specifically since August of 2021, so we're looking almost at four years this August. So we've got three months to go on that, and then it'll be four solid years, basically August 1st when I got hired and moved here back to Grand Canyon.

Lakin: So how did you go from being underground and in the caves to now working with the tribes?

Dan Pawlak: Yeah, so it's interesting. I mean, my background is geology, and I studied paleoclimatology in college, so it's an emphasis looking at past climates. So I got a Bachelor's of Science in geology focusing on past climates, which allowed me to really work in caves with the government, and I started giving cave tours.

Dan Pawlak: At one point in my life, I totaled all my hours and all my time underground, and it was over a year of my life that I totaled up at one time. The amount of hours I'd spent in total darkness, probably a couple days worth, and that was like eight years ago when I did that. So it's even more now since I worked in more caves, but how do you go from underground, like caving, to back up to where vitamin D exists?

Dan Pawlak: So I worked at Oregon Caves for about three seasons, and I needed a change of pace, and so I applied for a job at Grand Canyon to work this cultural demonstration program, or not to work the demonstration program, but to work here in this office, and I worked it for two seasons, and I was introduced to the demonstration program. But then I became permanent at Carlsbad, so I went back underground for almost four years there, and in that time frame, I built a program that is still sponsored by the National Park Service and has been taken over by the National Cave and Karst Research Institute called Cave Week, which is actually coming up here first full week of August. Celebrate your caves all across the United States.

Dan Pawlak: Hashtag Cave Week. So that building a program really set me up for applying for this job here, and I was familiar with this program because I helped to work it as a seasonal employee. I didn't run it, but I helped to get to know all the demonstrators, set up their tables, get to know them, and build this partnership with them as well, and that stuck with me, so much so that I have an emblem that I carry around that I had a demonstrator create in 2017.

Dan Pawlak: And so, this has stuck with me since that time frame, and that program planning, the knowing of the demonstrators from a seasonal perspective helped me build my resume to a point where I was able to apply for this job in 2020 and then get it in 2021. So that was a big moment that I was able to come back to this location and now run a program that I was involved with and got to see my coworkers at the time run. All the right things happen at the right time, and I made the opportunity happen for myself, but I didn't know I was going to run this program.

Meranden: Nice. That's really cool. Starting as a seasonal, seeing it progress and get bigger, and now you're the manager of it. That's really cool. And I'm pretty sure this didn't start with just you, but how did the Cultural Demonstration Program start?

Dan Pawlak: So the Cultural Demonstration Program celebrated 11 years, and that was this weekend. That was Memorial Day weekend this year. We celebrated 11 years of this, and it came from a desire of the Intertribal Working Group.

Dan Pawlak: Now, this is a group of individuals who represent their tribal communities. They are of the 11 associated tribes of Grand Canyon. So that organization is now 12 years old, and it's a group of people that advise the park and tell us what they would like to see happen inside the park, and we are able to make it happen as of National Park.

Dan Pawlak: And that's because in order to make this in 1919 a National Park, we kicked everybody out. We kicked out famously the Havasupai people from Havasupai Gardens, and in 1919 they were forcibly removed from their home. Then later in the 1920s, the last person living there was forcibly removed, like really forcibly removed, and he cried all the way up to the canyon, and he died a year later of a broken heart being removed from his home.

Dan Pawlak: So, this park has had a tenuous history with the people who call it home, and it took about 95 years for us to get to a point where we are listening to the community and hearing what they want and welcoming them home. And that's also not just from the group, but that's also because there are coworkers in this park who have been here for decades and worked on just having conversations with people and building those relationships since the 90s and 80s to get to the point where we formed this intertribal working group that says, hey, we would like to see people come into the park and demonstrate our cultures, in our own words, to the public. And then in 2014, this cultural demonstration program was created, and it started up at the parking lot just behind us basically in front of our office over here. So that was four demonstrators in 2014, and it has grown ever since, and now we have over 200 individuals in just 11 years to get to where we are now.

Lakin: Thank you for sharing that. And throughout those 11 years, can you tell us a bit more about who kind of managed the program and how you got to learn from them and how they served members of the 11 Tribes of the Canyon?

Dan Pawlak: Yeah, so there have been a few iterations of this position at the park. Even in 11 years, I'm like number four in line because as park rangers, we like to move around a lot. In order to go up in our career, move up the ladder a little bit, we have to move across country and take different positions at different parks, and that adds to the mystique of park rangers working everywhere, and we just love to roam and all that type of stuff.

Dan Pawlak: In 2014, I do not remember the individual's name who started that year, and I think there was another person in 2015. The person I do remember is Christy Negley, and she is at Big Bend in Texas now. I got to watch Christy for two years build this program from scratch in a way, which was really cool.

Dan Pawlak: I had no idea what was going on here, the impact that this place was going to have on the Tribal members and myself, but watching Christy navigate waters that she'd never been in before and do it humbly was huge because she didn't have a real direction. She was told to build this program, make it sustainable, and it had been funded in 2015 by Grand Canyon Conservancy, so we're getting the money in order to increase the activity of this program every single year. So I watched her go to the communities on her weekends where she got paid to go down to Flagstaff, go to the Museum of Northern Arizona when she should be having her time off, and she just walked around the booths talking to everybody and building those friendships of people that are already in the program, like Jimmy [Yawakia] and Duran [Gasper], who had been in the program in 2016 from Zuni.

Dan Pawlak: They're at these booths at the Museum of Northern Arizona for the Zuni show, and so Christy goes up to them, builds a relationship, and then they start recommending people at that show for Christy to go to and go up to those booths and recruit new individuals. And so I used that in the playbook after 2020, when we started this whole thing back up after COVID, to go down to these shows and continue that relationship with not only seeing everybody who's been in the program, but continue to build new relationships and try to identify off the list of people, this is a person we want from Yavapai Apache to see if they'll join the program, from Hualapai, from Havasupai, from San Juan Southern Paiute, and making that extra effort to go out to their communities.

Dan Pawlak: Whereas the National Park Service, we are really good about asking people to come to us, but we're not the best about going out onto their lands and into their places and talking to them. So this is an aspect of us trying to go out and continue that outreach and make us visible for everyone to see, and that has been a critical way of building this program.

Dan Pawlak: And then Christy did such a good job that it's all word of mouth now. There's a huge portion that's word of mouth. The whole, I would say, 50% of the demonstration list is word of mouth of people in their communities telling others that this is going so well over here, you should give this a shot too.

Dan Pawlak: And it's just kind of spread like wildfire a little bit in some of these areas. So watching Christy build these relationships, take the time outside of her weekends, when she should be just relaxing, to see that, it was very impactful. But then she also took the time down at the Watchtower, where, I'm going to let you know, this is a collateral duty of mine, so it's not my direct job that I should be doing on paper.

Dan Pawlak: Theoretically, this should be about 10% of my job. It's 90% of my job to run this whole program. So, to watch Christy spend the amount of time she did down at the Watchtower and just talk to people when they're here and acknowledge people as individuals and as humans, that's the biggest part.

Dan Pawlak: And that's what we still try to emulate this very day when we have demonstrators from all backgrounds coming here. So those are lessons that I took from Christy at that time frame and then applied them here. And in the interim, when Christy left, my friend Grace, who's in the village, she ran the program as much as she could during very hard times during COVID.

Dan Pawlak: And she expanded the program to actually have online series and go live like over Facebook. And so there's a whole archive of Behind the Arts. If you want to check that out online, you can see interviews with tribal members and they're displaying what they do from inside their own house via, or they had to go to someone else's house who has a webcam that has actually good internet.

Dan Pawlak: So, the program has persisted through very difficult times and just seeing how adaptive my coworkers have been, that's what I like to do with my job now. And that's the lessons that I've taken into this position.

Meranden: Nice. Yeah, that's a long history I can see. And I can see that there's a lot of connection to this position you have. You did mention that you had caving, and we hear it a lot in the office that you like talking about caving. But I did want to ask, although you have that big love for caving, what made you choose this position?

Dan Pawlak: I chose this position because it was the right time. It was my time to leave Carlsbad. I had plateaued in my position there as a GS-5 and I just needed out.

Dan Pawlak: It was a park that I needed to leave from and start a new chapter somewhere else. And so when this job opened up on USAJOBS, by the way, if you're ever looking to apply for the National Park Service jobs, you're going to go on USAJOBS.gov. You're not going to apply off a billboard or anything like that. You're going to go through a difficult process and try to identify those positions on USAJOBS.gov. I had the searches going. I saw the job pop up. And I saw that Brian, our supervisor now, was still the same supervisor. I kept up over the years with him as well.

Dan Pawlak: And seeing that I was ready for something else was huge. And I thought to myself, you know, I'm familiar with this program. I saw how it was done. I got a lot of influence from it. And I think I can do this. I think I can do this overall.

Dan Pawlak: So, I applied. And one of the big things that kind of nagged me internally to apply is literally a symbol on my ring finger here that I've been carrying around. Duane Tawahongva is a silversmith from Hopi.

Dan Pawlak: And as a seasonal in 2017, I asked him to create a custom piece. And what this is, and I also now have it as a pin above my nameplate here. And what it is, it's an arrowhead based off the tie tack for the National Park Service.

Dan Pawlak: And so, I gave him that tie tack. I'm like, hey, build me this shape out of silver. And then the two pieces that are connecting, or not connecting, but are intertwined in the middle like this is the Hopi symbol for friendship.

Dan Pawlak: So, when I was a seasonal, I saw that the government and the tribes were able to work together even though they had such a tumultuous history. And that inspired me to then make this. And it affected how I then have done my entire career after that in 2017.

Dan Pawlak: So, everything kind of came together and it inspired me to then apply for this job and be the best candidate possible and put my resume together as best as I could and showcase that I was ready for this job. And then I thankfully got it. It was a bit scary, honestly, because during the process of hiring, the HR person in the regional office quit.

Dan Pawlak: So, you apply on USAJOBS, it goes through an algorithm that says like, oh, you're qualified. And then it goes to another person who looks at like, oh, you actually are qualified. That person quit.

Dan Pawlak: So, there was a gap in the whole process for over a month where there wasn't a person processing the resumes on this certification. And so, I was wigging out at Carlsbad, just going nuts of like, when are we going to hear? When are we going to hear?

Dan Pawlak: And I hopefully did not professionally nag my boss too much about trying to get updates about this job. But, yeah, that's what led up to getting this position.

Lakin: Yeah, now we're here with the sunset. And it's cool that like Meranden and I got to meet you and work with you and now you're our supervisor. And you did mention that you've built a friendship with a demonstrator. And we'd like to know more about like the relationships that you've built with other demonstrators throughout the years and just how that has impacted you.

Dan Pawlak: It's impacted me in great ways. I get to go in town now. And actually, Darrence Chimerica, who is here for representing his community Hopi as a kachina carver, he talked to me about my dad today because he met my dad last year.

Dan Pawlak: When my parents visited, I went to the bank with my dad down in Flagstaff, and Darence was behind us in line. And my dad and him talked a little bit, and we just kind of caught up and just had fun while waiting 10 people deep at Wells Fargo. But that shows you that like knowing Darrence and just talking to him and seeing him as a friend, as a human, it made an impact in such a way that he remembers my dad that lives in Minnesota near the Canadian border.

Dan Pawlak: And that was 20 minutes. And that sticks out to him to remember my family. So that's a big moment right there.

Dan Pawlak: Another big moment is that Richard Graymountain from San Juan Southern Paiute paid me a compliment last year, which I still think about quite often, but had to work to get to that point. And I'm going to give you the back story on this, where we had not had a person from San Juan Southern Paiute in the program for nine years. And it's the goal of this program to represent every community as equally as possible.

Dan Pawlak: And so, for that long, we did not have anybody from San Juan Southern Paiute. And so, I started communicating with Richard, who was on the tribal government at the time, like, hey. And he's also an intertribal working group member too.

Dan Pawlak: So, I go to meetings, and I see this guy a lot down in Flagstaff. And I'm like, Richard, would you like to put this out to folks in your community to say, hey, there's this opportunity to come up to Grand Canyon to demonstrate your culture up here? And the way I described it to him wasn't good at all.

Dan Pawlak: And I told him the process of how we get people selected for the calendar up here. And he goes, it seems like there's a bias in the program, and this is not for San Juan Southern Paiute. And I read that over an email, and my heart sunk.

Dan Pawlak: And it sat with me for months. And eventually, I was able to talk to Richard and get him to come out as a demonstrator, and he saw what the program was all about. So, this was his test to see what this program was and to see if it was right for his community.

Dan Pawlak: And after that three-day demonstration, he really enjoyed himself up here, and he saw the people that are in this office that are at the park and that want to make a difference, but we still have a lot to learn. So, it changed how I book people for the program to be as fair as possible, to be as equitable as possible. And that compliment was during an interview just like this of Grand Canyon Speaks a year ago in July.

Dan Pawlak: And it was to commemorate 10 years of the program with Richard Graymountain, Octavius Seowtewa from Zuni, and then also Mae Franklin from Navajo, Diné communities. And they're some of the original people in the Intertribal Working Group that helped to get this off the ground. So, during that, Richard openly acknowledged, and I was standing in the back right there, Richard goes, I had an argument with that man.

Dan Pawlak: And he just points at me, everyone looks, and it's like, yeah, this is all on me right now. And it's like, oh, here we go again, Richard. This is it.

Dan Pawlak: And so, he told me, I had an argument with that man about it being unfair to our community that we're not represented and it's not a good way for us to be represented in this community. But then he said, I now respect him as my brother. And that was huge.

Dan Pawlak: That was absolutely huge. So those are some of the impacts that have stayed with me for a long time with this program. And whenever I get to go to shows outside of the park, or even when people come here, it's always just great to see them and to laugh.

Dan Pawlak: And you get a big hug from everyone. And we're not seen as park rangers first. We're seen as people first. And that's one of the best parts, because we see them as people too, as humans, that need to have their voice shared more so in this world. And we're able to find space to facilitate that for them.

Meranden: Nice. Yeah, and we do see that a lot in the office of like, there's people that you can call, and you make jokes with them right away. Or sometimes we call them and they're like, stand there. So those relationships have gotten super strong, and we can see it just from the sidelines. And like you mentioned, this program has been going on for 11 years now. And we built it to where we have really strong connections with the tribes.

Meranden: And we try to stress and embrace the equity for everybody. I'm curious, is Grand Canyon one of the main ones that are doing this kind of program? And have you collabed with any other agencies over the years?

Dan Pawlak: Grand Canyon is not alone. It's not as common across the park service as we would like to see programs like this. But there are parks that are trying and there are parks that have been successful as well.

Dan Pawlak: There are many iterations across the park service of examples of programs like this, providing space for individuals. Tetons has had a program that's going on almost 40 years of a demonstration program. And they're kind of in the process of revamping that program and really bringing it back to its educational roots.

Dan Pawlak: Glacier National Park has their Native America Speaks program. That has been running for over 40 years. And they invite tribal members from the local community to come out.

Dan Pawlak: Oh my gosh. Probably the majority of the summer to give presentations in the place of a ranger. So, we kind of borrowed Grand Canyon Speaks from Native America Speaks up at Glacier. Ha ha. A little bit of inspiration there. Yosemite is working on building their program.

Dan Pawlak: The Flagstaff Monuments, we've been working with them very closely, sharing our databases, sharing our documents, and giving them ideas on how to build their programs. That's been going on. Yellowstone has been revamping their program.

Dan Pawlak: They have a dedicated building now inside their park that's run by their nonprofit, Yellowstone Forever, in order to operate a culture demonstration program. And it's actually interesting that the nonprofit there runs the program and Yellowstone is just a facilitator of it, basically. Whereas here, National Park Service runs the program, and the nonprofit funds the program.

Dan Pawlak: So, this is a group, an organization, that I've actually started by myself talking to Tetons and Glacier. And we decided that we have enough conversations that it seems other parks want to be in on this. So, we now have a national level meeting a few times a year to discuss how we interpret indigenous history from not only the interpretation side, the education side, of the National Park Service, but also get into tribal consultation as well.

Dan Pawlak: So, everybody from the regional level of the National Park Service, they work on this. The parks themselves work on this. We've had seasonals in these conversations that are directly working with these programs, like how I did when I was here.

Dan Pawlak: And so, this effect is going across the NPS. But we've also talked to Bureau of Land Management to help set up a demonstration program outside of Las Vegas. And so, it's not just limited to Grand Canyon.

Dan Pawlak: And it's because of what we do here that other parks are calling us. I mean, I got an email, I think in my inbox, I got to respond to from another park right now, and they're looking for agreements on how they can properly navigate the legal waters with cultural demonstrators to make sure that everything is fair and equitable and they can be treated appropriately. So, this office has consulted a lot in order to make it happen across the country.

Dan Pawlak: I've talked to people on the East Coast in order to start stuff up there. So, it's a successful program, and it's kind of an honor to be one of the people that is called in the National Park Service and be able to facilitate those conversations for everybody.

Lakin: So that's good to know that the impact of the demonstration program has been vast and also that influence has been borrowed from other programs, from other parks as well. And we'd like to move to the next question. And this question is, where else within the Grand Canyon National Park would you like to see the cultural demonstration occur?

Dan Pawlak: Where would I like to see it occur? We were just kind of talking about this in the office earlier. We've had demonstrations in the village during the wintertime where the population is at more so, and we can get more visibility there.

Dan Pawlak: So that's checked off. North Rim is very kind to host demonstrations up there four times a year this year, once a month in June, July, August, and September. So, we've got another district there that's actually been going.

Dan Pawlak: This is going into our almost third year, I think, up there, which is beautiful. The only other district that we have yet to check off is the bottom of the canyon. We want to go into the canyon, either like Havasupai Gardens or down at Phantom.

Dan Pawlak: And that would be amazing to do that because we have demonstrators who talk about the canyon who have been at the bottom of the canyon as well. Actually, I think there's a gentleman from Hopi, Cory. He's going down on the river right now in the canyon.

Dan Pawlak: He may have passed Desert View today and waved at us when he went by. And if we are able to go down there, I think that would be absolutely amazing because the demonstrations weren't demonstrations 100 years ago. It was life. Dan Pawlak: They weren't demonstrations 200 years ago. It was life of the people living inside the canyon since time immemorial. Hopi came from the canyon. Zuni came from the canyon. And so, to be able to then connect visitors with a tribal member that is demonstrating their culture inside the canyon, like, yeah, just right up here. This is where we came from.

Dan Pawlak: That's an impact that I think would be just amazing. Not only from a park service side, a visitor side, but from a tribal member side because they are so proud to be here and to be the ones to represent their communities. And they get that opportunity to go down when they never thought they might be able to.

Dan Pawlak: That's my ultimate goal. If we can go out to Tuweep for some reason, I will find a reason for it. Way on the western side of the canyon, that would be a really specific reason to go out there. But I would absolutely love to get out to that point too. But into the canyon first.

Meranden: Yeah, that would be really cool. Imagine the supplies that they would have to take down there.

Dan Pawlak: Oh, yeah. We would have to either fly it in, their supplies, or we would have to use the mules to go down. So that's why I'm thinking, like, kachina carvers to go down into the canyon because they can bring cottonwood root that is sized out and they can whittle and also then file down and make kachinas and use the pigments and all sorts of stuff.

Meranden: So, like we mentioned in the beginning, this is kind of the closing of our culture demonstration celebration for the weekend. We had it for yesterday and today, celebrating what we had. So, we had about 12 demonstrators that were set up outside, just outside the tower. Meranden: And we had two presentations. There was one by Ann Marie who talked about her Diné culture. And then we also had Nala Nelson, who was a young girl who sang different songs from also her Diné culture, and they were both from Kayenta.

Meranden: It was a really successful event, and it was really nice for us to, you know, be part of the planning process and see it come alive. But last year, you know, you celebrated 10 years of the culture demonstration program with a celebration similar to this year's. Do you see this kind of event continuing and being annually?

Dan Pawlak: Yes, I definitely do. And I think it's wanted as well. Some of the feedback that we got from these last two days, it's just been incredible.

Dan Pawlak: Karen Abeita paid us many compliments over two days, and she was so happy to see this type of celebration at the canyon. And she's been in the demonstration program since 2016 but hasn't been here since before 2020. So, she had this six-year gap of not knowing what the status of the program is and then to come back and be a part of this celebration, and she was overjoyed.

Dan Pawlak: And so, from a tribal member standpoint, it needs to happen. From a National Park's standpoint, it needs to happen. From the [Grand Canyon] Conservancy side, it needs to happen as well because it's too successful.

Dan Pawlak: And if we don't celebrate the wins, then what are we celebrating? And the win is having a fruitful connection with our cultural demonstrators, with our tribal members. That's the biggest thing right there, and it shows in how we take care of them.

Dan Pawlak: So, I want to see this into the future, and it's also blossomed into other celebrations that happen as well. So, this was the first time last year that we had a big celebration like this. And then in October, my coworker, Kelli, in the back there, she did an Indigenous Peoples' Day celebration, and that was amazing.

Dan Pawlak: The whole weekend was performances and also then demonstrators and PhD presenters coming in from their indigenous communities. And then also Meranden and Lakin in November here took the reins and did more celebrations for Native American Heritage Month. So, this type of stuff, it's not stopping.

Dan Pawlak: We're going to just keep going, and we're going to try and do it better and better every single year and make it more open and have greater perspective on it from greater communities, take the advice of how we should do things and adapt it and try it to see if it really will work for the future. So yeah, I totally see this continuing into the future.

Lakin: Yeah, and it's a good thing that everyone comes out to support these types of events, whether it's the staff or its visitors, getting to know more about the cultures of the canyon and the cultures of the Four Corners region, and that helps understand how to better respect the landscape and also the people themselves. And then you did mention that we did have Indigenous People's Day celebration with Kelli. And it was funny because me and Meranden had a speaks panel discussion, and we sat and talked with those scholars, and we were kind of thrown – not thrown into it, but it was like a huge task to take on, and we handled it pretty well. So it was pretty fun.

Dan Pawlak: You did great, especially for it being your first official Park Service program to do an interview like this with Indigenous scholars. Yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah, you guys crushed it. You did great.

Lakin: Yeah, thank you. Before we get to the closing, I want to shout out Bagel, the cat back there. That's Dan's cat back there.

Lakin: He was taking some sunset photos earlier. I just want to shout him out. And we like to throw in a fun question every now and then. And the fun question for Dan is, what are some of your funniest moments with demonstrators?

Dan Pawlak: Oh, I think one of the top ones that you're going to laugh at, Lakin, is when we had royalty out here last fall. We had Zuni royalty out here, and inside the watchtower, they decided to dance. And they wanted us to join in as National Park Service and dance in the watchtower.

Dan Pawlak: So, the royalty was mostly made up of women, and they're doing a specific movement that is only meant for women. I didn't know that. And so here I am dancing next to royalty, and I'm doing all the female movements when I should be doing the male movements in this dance.

Dan Pawlak: And they tried to get a hold of me to stop me and change it up. Nope, they were just like, let him go. They couldn't get me because I was too involved. And they're just like, let him do his thing. It's all good. So, I think that's one of the top moments, I would say, right there.

Dan Pawlak: And I think just the funny moments, they just happen. And it's just in the conversations that we have. So, I can't remember all those moments, but it's fun to know that they're there in the history. And you can just think about it and laugh, just knowing that good people come here all the time. And you just have those moments to look forward to into the future. But yeah, totally me doing all the female movements in a Zuni dance. Yeah, that's very funny.

Meranden: Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I'm glad that you can have those kinds of memories and just laugh on it randomly and think of it. So, we are ending with this last question that we would like to pose to you. What additions would you like to see in the culture demonstration program? And what else would you like to see in the future?

Dan Pawlak: Some of the additions for the program, not only include getting greater representation from smaller communities, which is a very hard task, because we're also dealing with communities that are not very big at all. We're talking hundreds to maybe a couple thousand individuals, not communities that have 50,000, 100,000. So if we can get folks to come out and find the right people to come out and represent their communities, that's a big thing right there.

Dan Pawlak: And then not have only artists out here. So the demonstration program is built on art. That's the foundation overall. Dan Pawlak: But culture is not just art. It's everything. It's the language. It's the way people act. It's the way people have lived. It's also just communicating with one another.

Dan Pawlak: It's food. It's so much. And over the years, we've had food demonstrations.

Dan Pawlak: We've had people come out and just teach traditional ecological knowledge, TEK. But we need more of it.

Dan Pawlak: And that's also what's happening over... There's a little stone building poking out between the market and the trading post over there. And that is going to become the Intertribal Welcome Center, designed by the tribes for the tribes. So hopefully in like this year, it will be opened up for the public.

Dan Pawlak: You'll be able to go in and get more education on the communities out here. But there's an outdoor demonstration area that's also being worked on, where Zuni bread ovens are being installed by Zuni youth, like trail crew members from them. A traditional garden is going to be installed there.

Dan Pawlak: Hopefully like agave roasting pits will be in there as well. I would love to have pottery firing demonstrations out there. If we could have like working with hides, that would be awesome to have.

Dan Pawlak: I mean, anything you can think of that happens in a community that's appropriate to have here at Grand Canyon, I would love to see that. I would love to see that as part of the demonstration program because culture is not just art. But one of the biggest things that needs to happen is a desire from the public to say, hey, is this happening at the National Park Service site?

Dan Pawlak: Are you working with tribal communities? What's your relationship like to the people who call this land home? And what do you do about it? So, taking this message and applying it to other parks or monuments, historic sites, battlefields even, that's something we need to see from the public in order to get that inspiration. Because if there's not a draw, there's not as much of a push necessarily to do it. And that's the hard part.

Dan Pawlak: But what has come out of that push are other programs like this, Grand Canyon Speaks. This is now, we're recording Season 3 here. And we're releasing Season 2 right now. Dan Pawlak: But it's born of having conversations with demonstrators and learning about their lives and their inspirations and their culture. And then Kelli running the performances, presentations, and also outreach is born from all of this as well. So we're seeing these great things happen here by various people inside the park and positions are being created around it.

Dan Pawlak: But that's because we're seeing a desire from the public to say, hey, we want more of this. Not just the history that has been around for about 100 years. And so, as we go forward into the future, if you want to see more dances, you want to see more presentations, you want to see the Park Service going out into the communities, you want to see more demonstrators coming into these public lands, ask for it. And that's my greatest thing that I want to see in the future.

Lakin: Thank you. And with that being our last question, we like to open questions and feedback from the audience.

Dan Pawlak Oh, here we go, Mark.

Mark: So, speaking of funny interactions with tribal members and members of the tribal communities, I heard there's a trending TikTok right now of Ranger Dan Pawlak getting pranked. Would you like to defend yourself?

Dan Pawlak: I can't defend myself. It happened today. So Princess Maya, who was out here at Zuni Royalty last year, came out with her family this year, Keith Edaakie and Leanne Lee, and Maya did the two ending prayers for yesterday and today.

Dan Pawlak: And she came up to us saying that she wants to do a TikTok with us on her own personal account. So, this is not the National Park Service's TikTok, anything like that. This is her own personal account.

Dan Pawlak: And she got Kelli in on it as well. And she played her role very brilliantly and pranked me here. And so, it's a trend on TikTok where everybody goes through and says something and you then applaud after each person says their thing, right?

Dan Pawlak: So, then that happened five times, everyone got applauds, and I'm the last person in line. So, I then do the trend, and no one applauds. So, I'm left hanging, and I got punked by a nine-year-old.

Dan Pawlak: So, I'm like, what's going on here? No one's applauding. Oh, I get it. So yeah, that is going to exist out there in the world on Maya's TikTok channel. I don't know what it is, but you might see me at some point in the news that Park Ranger gets pranked on trending TikTok. Yeah, so that happened. No defense.

Lakin: Any other questions, Kelli?

Kelli: Dan, working here several years as a cultural demonstrator coordinator, how many purchases of artwork do you have from our tribal artists?

Dan Pawlak: There's a bus rolling through here and I am thrown under it. So, when you work with world class artists and it is your job to bring them out to your job, it's really hard to keep the wallet closed. Okay?

Dan Pawlak: I do have a number of paintings inside my house now. I have a number of prints as well. So, I got originals.

Dan Pawlak: I have prints. I have kachina doll carvings. I got a lot of pottery now.

Dan Pawlak: Fetish carvings as well. And so, my walls are filling up even in my apartment that I have here. So, I think I need to now switch to smaller things that maybe I can wear.

Dan Pawlak: So yeah, I do have a number of items that I have purchased. Some of it has overflowed to my desk so that it does not take up space on the walls in my house. So yeah, when people walk into my office, they know what space mine is and then when people come over to my house for parties and stuff, they kind of are a little jaw-dropped when they look at my walls. Yeah.

Lakin: That's funny because one of the gatherings we had at Dan's house, me and Meranden walked in and we were like, we can re-curate this wall space because we kind of did that for our November, one of our November events. We had a youth gallery down at the building over there and we had to set up artwork and we were like; we could do this with Dan's place.

Dan Pawlak: Yes. I have made a rule for myself as well that I don't purchase art or jewelry from shops. I only purchase it from the people that come to the demonstration program.So every single piece that I have has a story to it or some kind of memory tied to it as well. So, if I go down to Sedona, if I go down to Phoenix, if I go down to Flagstaff or walk through an art store or whatever, I'm going to look. I'm not going to buy because I know I can bring those folks out here and have a memory to share with it.

Dan Pawlak: So, it's kind of, it's fun to have all that tied there and to tie it in with their art gallery too. But yeah, you could curate a small exhibit with what I have.

Meranden: Okay. This is a little surprise for you, Dan. Me and Lakin made this and we just really want to thank you for being our supervisor like we mentioned in the beginning.

Meranden: Yeah, he's kind of been the main one who really took over and helped us out and showed us what to do and be a really good support system. Now he's taken over officially as our supervisor when we started this new role with Ancestral Land. So, Dan's been a really big part of our journey here and we're really thankful for his guidance and everything that he's done for us that we created something for him and it's the Best Supervisor Award. So, we're presenting that to you.

Dan Pawlak: Oh gosh. This means a lot. This is wonderful. Thank you very much. I figured out in my career a while back that I didn't necessarily want to be a supervisor but when our former supervisor Melissa left for a new job and Meranden and Lakin needed some direction in the office because they are so awesome and do such good work and are good people, I saw myself being able to supervise them. So, for you to give me this it means a lot. A whole lot.

Lakin: Thank you all for coming out here and listening to the program and listening to Dan's experience and just appreciating the landscape and our voices as well.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices visit www.nps.gov/grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai tribe, the Hualapai tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute tribe.

In this episode, Ancestral Lands Conservation Corps interns Lakin and Meranden sat down with Dan Pawlak, a ranger at Grand Canyon National Park and coordinator of the Cultural Demonstration program at the canyon. Dan shares his experience in this role and how he has created bonds and connections with demonstrators from the 11 tribes of the Grand Canyon. He also talks about his journey within the National Park Service, what led him to being a program coordinator and what his vision is for this program and ot

Episode 14

Brooke Damon Speaks

Transcript

Brooke Damon Speaks

[Brooke Damon] Which was really cool and really exciting because I really love water. I want to work with water in the future and for my life. Because in the Navajo culture, water is life.

And just living in the Southwest, you know how important water is. And being able to maybe bridge those gaps between indigenous knowledge and then also western science. So, I was really excited for this opportunity to come up and kind of put my place into it.

[Lakin] Hello everyone, welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

[Meranden] And this is Meranden.

[Lakin] Today's episode will be about Brooke Damon. She is Diné and shares what her experience was like as an intern with the Institute for Tribal Environmental Professionals with Northern Arizona University.

[Meranden] She describes the importance of having first voices and traditional ecological knowledge included in the environmental sciences field.

[Lakin] Throughout this journey, it also allowed her to connect a lot more with her Diné culture. And explains what it felt like to be a voice for indigenous people throughout this report.

[Meranden] Thank you for tuning in and here is Brooke Damon.

[Brooke Damon] ♪♪♪ (Introduces self in Navajo) Hi, my name is Brooke Damon. And I am of the Tangle People clan. I am born for the Clamp Tree people.

My maternal grandpa is of the Water Edge clan. And my paternal grandpa is of the Salt People clan.

[Ranger Dawn] Cool. Why don't you tell us what you're working on currently?

[Brooke Damon] Yeah, so I'm currently an intern through the Institute for Tribal Environmental Professionals through Northern Arizona University. And how that internship works, it's about a two-month internship program. They kind of allow you to pick a host site that you can apply to and then they'll do the rest of it.

Sending your application, resume, all of that good stuff. And I was really excited to see the Grand Canyon opportunity because it's with their Traditional Ecological Knowledge and First Voices program. And the project goal was to integrate indigenous knowledge and traditional ecological knowledge, which is just knowledge that indigenous people hold about their environment because they live in the environment, they see generations have seen the changes in the environment and a lot of their culture revolves around it.

So that's what the goal was to try to integrate that into the hydrology program, which was really cool and really exciting because I really love water. I want to work with water in the future and for my life. Because in the Navajo culture, water is life.

And just living in the Southwest, you know how important water is. And being able to maybe bridge those gaps between indigenous knowledge and then also Western science. So, I was really excited for this opportunity to come up and kind of put my place into it.

[Ranger Dawn] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, we were talking earlier, you're talking about like your background, like the degree you got.

So, like, how did you even get started? Where was the seed planted for this passion?

[Brooke Damon] So, as many people have their COVID stories, I graduated during COVID. I graduated in a car, very funnily decorated car by my mom. So, shout out to her for doing that.

But being that 17-year-old, I had no clue what I wanted to do in life. I wanted to be an engineer. I wanted to do all these crazy things that would maybe make me money.

Because that was like, I guess every teenager's dream is like, I want to make the most money I can. But at the time, I was like, I don't think engineering is for me. Like I like math, I like doing that stuff.

But I don't want problems to be given to me and for me to solve them. So, I was like, what else could I do? And then again, COVID was still going on.

I wasn't sure where I wanted to go to college. Still very undecided, crazy yet to make those decisions being so young. But like, I grew up in Flagstaff for most of my life.

But NAU, my mom, my grandparents graduated from there. So, I was like, maybe NAU might be for me. So, I looked into it.

I saw they had an environmental science program. And I was like, maybe I could do environmental science. I like being outside.

And it was a broad enough degree that you could go into specifics if you wanted to. But it just gives you that nice background if you wanted. But what really solidified that for me was my mother.

Because again, COVID, she is a dental hygienist, but she had to work as a public health nurse to check on patients when they tested positive. Because she worked in Tuba City, one of the bigger cities on the reservation. But a lot of people go to that hospital to get care and treatment.

And one of her patients came from a rural area. So, they didn't have water or electricity. And unfortunately, things didn't go the way it should have gone.

And maybe it would have been different if they had access to the water or to have running water, at least. So, I think that's what really was like, okay, I want to be someone who makes a difference in this kind of changing world we're in now. Because during COVID, the Navajo Nation was sent body bags instead of actual help.

And that was just like, why? Why does that always happen to indigenous people? Why are they always just pushed aside until the problem becomes too much, until it becomes this nationwide, like all eyes on it.

But the help they get is just not really help. It's just kind of just thrown at them to be like, okay, we did something. But it really doesn't do anything.

So that's what I really want to go back to my communities is kind of helping with water resources. Because I think a big problem that may be looming or may even is looming is water quantity and maybe even water quality with mining. Everything that the nation has gone through and kind of suffered. kind of those two different things you're kind of dealing with.

So yeah, that's where I really solidified me going into environmental science and putting myself out there to do these programs. For sure. Yeah.

[Ranger Dawn] You're working on a report right now. Did you want to talk about that a bit?

[Brooke Damon] Yeah. So again, like I said, it's really aimed at bringing in indigenous voices into Western science because, again, history of a part, the traditional voices have been, and people have been excluded from these spaces. And I'm really fortunate to be this kind of person that can be a safe space for other indigenous people to come and maybe share their stories, share their perspective on the natural resources, their importance of the Grand Canyon.

And that's what my report is really focused on, is what the Grand Canyon means to these indigenous people and just really highlighting that voice of theirs, making sure that they're being heard, but also trying to bridge that gap between Western science and indigenous folks. Because as for myself, I grew up in Flagstaff, so I feel quite like kind of out of my culture in a sense because I didn't grow up traditionally. My family is quite religious in the Christianity.

So even my family is not really traditional. So, I didn't have that background. And again, going to school in Flagstaff, you're really Western science.

Getting a degree in environmental science from an institution is Western science. And just having that disconnect is kind of scary at times because that's what I feel right now. It's just like, why am I the person to kind of speak for other indigenous people?

Why is that kind of put on me as a sole person? Because you almost feel like they see you as just this indigenous person. They're like, okay, let's go to her.

She can solve all our problems, but that's not really the case. And that shouldn't be the case because the conversation is much wider than that. It should involve so much more people.

And I think the park is doing an amazing job just taking that first step to kind of have this program, having me come in. And even though I do feel that discomfort, just allowing me to really take stride in the report, having me have the full leadership of it. I finally finished my first draft of it, and I sent it off, and I'm waiting for my comments to get back.

But just having that trust in me to be like, okay, we trust you with this. We know that you're going to do a good job on it has been really like, wow. It really hinders that like, okay, I'm in the right field.

I'm doing the right thing. I shouldn't feel this imposter system that I felt all through my college career because when I walked into class, I was the only indigenous person sometimes, which was scary and intimidating because you would have conversations about resources, and then you would want to ask, what about back home? How are we going to keep moving forward when we're leaving indigenous people behind in some cases?

On the Navajo reservations, I believe the number is still 30% of people don't have running water. And it's like, how do we, I guess, move forward? And making that leap into a sustainable future, but so many people still don't have the basic necessities, and that's something that I kind of think about a lot.

Yeah.

[Ranger Dawn] Yeah, a thousand percent. Yeah, we were talking about that like imposter syndrome of like, yeah, I feel like we had empathy for each other on that. You kind of talked about like bridging the gap between like Western science and indigenous knowledge, but also like older generations and younger generations.

Did you want to talk about that a bit?

[Brooke Damon] Yeah, so again, I grew up in Flagstaff, so a lot of times back home when you talk to leaders, the older generation, one of the biggest criticisms of the younger generation is that we don't know our language, that we don't know our traditional stories, and I guess I am a part of that problem because I can't speak my native tongue, but I can say some things. That's what I'm really trying to hope to do through this report is like reconnect with that and reconnect with my culture because through the report, I focus like a portion of like Navajo creation story, and during that, my partner, they live, their family still live the traditional way of life. They're sheep herders.

They live right on the canyon's edge almost, and I wrote some, I wrote my like little spiel about what the importance of the Grand Canyon is to like Diné people, and I gave it to him to be like, can you check with your grandma about this? Like did I spell this thing right? And like he showed it to them, and they were like, wow, like she got it right.

She spelled these things right, and I was really like, wow, okay, like I spelled these things right. Like I do know some part of my culture, and I think that's something I'm really excited about, like bridging that gap between the older and younger generation. It's just like a lot of times you do feel like the older generation can just get mad at you to be like, you don't know your language, you don't, you're so influenced by everything technology, you get the whole spiel from it, but just knowing that there's like making sure that that knowledge isn't being lost, making sure that that knowledge is stored somewhere, written, in case like older generations are maybe passing on, and just making sure that their stories that they want to tell are being told, and I think that's one way I really want to, one of the goals of the report I have is kind of having a ripple effect on like myself, because I do feel like I'm reconnecting with my culture through the report. Maybe like there's another Native girl or Native boy sitting in a class feeling the exact same things I'm feeling, and maybe if they hear what I'm saying, maybe if they're taking on these like TEK roles, that they do feel that sense of reconnection to their culture, they do feel that sense of self-rediscovery of themselves, and then also making sure that the older generation knows that we are trying, like I try to learn my tongue, my boyfriend, he knows how to talk Navajo, so I'm always asking him questions like, what is, how do you say that in Navajo? And like sometimes when I do say something, I say it a bit funny, and he'll kind of laugh, and I'll be like, I'm never speaking it again, just because you like say it funny, and you're like, oh man. But I think that's been a really cool thing, like stepping into these roles, even though there is that un-comfortability in yourself, you feel kind of, I guess, not in place at times, you do have those like rewarding feelings you get, like his grandma's like really strict Navajo, really, it's probably scary, she scares me.

But to have her to be like, wow, she got this right, she knows how to spell, it was like really rewarding, and really cool, even just to have that. And I'm excited to share that with like other, because the report also focuses on other tribes. So, I'm hoping that they have that same effect like, wow, she got that right, that's what we believe in, like that's what we were taught too.

So I'm really excited for that. And I hope that's something that this report does is bridge that gap.

[Ranger Dawn] Yeah, you talked about like the ripple effect. How do you want this report, like the ripple effect, to be on your community? How do you want it to affect your community and beyond?

[Brooke Damon] Yeah, I think, I guess a lot of times you can think of the ripple really small. You see just the little, I guess, wins I've had through the report. But on a bigger scale, like just knowing that I am a speaker for my community, knowing that I'm, again, trying to do what I'm doing.

It's hard at times, like getting a degree is hard. There's a lot of struggle in that. But also knowing that I am doing good for them, and that I am a voice for them.

I'm a voice for indigenous people. And just building that confidence in myself to be like, okay, I can stand in these spaces as an indigenous woman. And people are going to listen to me.

And they're going to take what I, hopefully they take what I say and resonate with it. So, I hope that's what happens in the community. And yeah, I really do hope it goes beyond just like the park.

And I hope it's something that does be shared with other community members. And they can add to it, even to the report, to look at it and be like, hey, this is what I heard. And kind of almost creating it as a shared space for them, that they can continue to share knowledge.

Maybe like just having those conversations. I'm hoping, I'm hopeful for it.

[Ranger Dawn] Yeah, totally. It's, I mean, water affects all of us. So, I definitely hope that you're, I have confidence that your report will extend beyond Grand Canyon.

You know?

[Brooke Damon] Yeah.

[Ranger Dawn] Yeah. What, you kind of, I guess like what do you want like listeners and our small audience here to like to take away? Like what's the one thing you want them to take away from our chat?

[Brooke Damon] Yeah. I think the biggest thing is like just listening to indigenous voices, allowing that space, allowing them to come into these spaces and share their experiences, share their knowledges and just being respectful to it. Because I think the Grand Canyon does a really good job of that.

Because just recently I was here at Desert View for their 10-year cultural demonstration celebration, which was really exciting to be a part of because I got to talk to different community members about their artwork, learn about what, what they do, why they do it and their excitement about it. And then this Southern Paiute people, they provided a dance, and they shared some of their traditional stories. And that was just so cool to be a part of.

It almost warms your heart in a sense to be like, wow, like we're being brought back. Cause I think one of the conversations I heard between like, like a tribal group programming that one of the tribal members, they didn't like the word, like, “we are still here”. Talking about indigenous people in the park.

They didn't like that phrasing. Like we shouldn't have to say like, we're still here. Like we've always been here, and we'll continue to be here.

And just knowing that and being respectful to it, like the water, they see it as a living being. They see it as it, as it having emotions, feelings, and it can offer happiness. It can offer calmness, but it can also offer like anger.

It can be angry at you. It can be upset. It can be injured.

It can be harmed. And I think that's something maybe we're not looking at in the bigger picture with the park's hydrology team. Like right now they're currently doing a dye trace study of the park.

So they're dumping dye into the sink holes and they're trying to see where the dye is popping up at springs, steeps, just to understand how the aquifer, what's the groundwater recharge is looking like. And so far, it hasn't gone what, like how they expected it to go, which is what science is a lot of times. Because again, you're, you're looking at like this big landscape.

You have the water traveling horizontally, but also vertically. But I guess one thing that we may have not considered is maybe the water's angry at us because tourists are not being respectful to it. We're using so much more water than we need to be doing.

And like traditional practices aren't not as happening as frequently as they maybe want to happen just because of park permitting, all these kinds of bureaucracies and like all these like governmental agencies like come stepping into these traditional homelands and like maybe disturbing it. So, I think that's what traditional and like listening to indigenous people, it just provides you with a different perspective on the environment and maybe like, Hey, maybe we should take that into account. Or maybe that's something we should look at.

Maybe we should look at tourism and the effects that it's having on the river. Cause a lot of the reports talk about like tribal river monitoring reports is because those happen annually. The tribes go down to the river on a river trip for about two weeks a week, just to visit sites that they deem as culturally important and sensitive to them and to monitor it, to make sure that nothing is going wrong with it.

But a lot of times they noted like vandalism, collection piles, like tourists just being disrespectful of it. And it's, it's hard because a lot of the times they don't feel like they have the right or they don't have the power to speak up to be like, maybe we should limit some tourism activity. Maybe we need to teach tourism boat trips about how to be respectful to the water, how to be respectful to these sites we have.

And again, going back to the ripple effect, maybe that's something this report can do is just shining that light on the voices of indigenous people, shining that light on their knowledge and giving them that power back to be like, hey, we took responsibility of protecting and we're stewards of this land. A lot of their creation stories, when they emerged into this world, their creator, they gave them the responsibility to care for the world. And in some cases, their creator told them, if you're not doing it responsibly, we're going to withhold things from you.

We're going to make it harder because that's what your responsibility is to do is to protect. And a lot of times they're not able to do that. But I think that's something I've seen really different because right now at the tribal programs, they have Kelkiyana Yazzie, Vincent Diaz who are tribal members in these kinds of leadership roles that are able to talk to other like the indigenous people and like me as wellbeing this kind of safe space.

Cause I think it's a lot easier for tribal members to talk to someone who looks like you, who had the same experiences as you, rather than like this non-indigenous person stepping into your space, trying to like almost grab and being like, I need that information. I want that information from you. And you kind of, they feel that kind of like, I don't want to give it to you.

Like, why should I? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

[Ranger Dawn] I have another question. What's your, I guess like own idea of like success, like for you, like moving forward and like after this report and like in your career, but also like in your culture and your personal goals and things you're just like, yeah, your idea of success?

[Brooke Damon] When I was in college, I had a lot of stress academic validation. So, I put a lot of my self-worth and self-being into getting good grades, trying to be this person that's top of the class. And that really took a toll on my mental health.

By the time I graduated, I was like so done with it. I was like, I just want to graduate. I, my, I know I'm not in a good mental space.

I'm not in a good head space. And that really took a perfect on my personal wellness and health as well. And, but throughout my undergrad, I had so many amazing experiences where people allowed me to come into these roles.

And even though, again, I feel uncomfortable with it at times kind of being the voice of indigenous people. And because throughout my undergrad, I had another internship with the Institute for Tribal Environmental Professionals, and it was working with an environmental education center in Flagstaff called Willow Bend. And we kind of created a climate curriculum for them that involves TEK and indigenous knowledge into it.

And the first year, of course, when you're trying to build those connections, you're trying to build this sense of what are we going to do? How is this going to look? It's really slow going.

So that first year, it was just a lot of conversation, a lot of talk. So, we didn't really get anything done, but the second year, it was already like hot and rolling. We met with the people at Willow Bend.

We did our programming, we planned it and we basically created a new climate change curriculum for them. And that was really cool to kind of take over what information they already had, but include our own knowledge into it. Because me and the other intern were both Navajo.

So, we focused on the Navajo months because the naming of it really stems down to seasonality and what's happening in the environment. So like January, it means melting of snow. And something that we were trying to stress to the kids is that melting of snow doesn't happen in January anymore in Flagstaff.

It's happening. Our winters are becoming later in the seasons and they're almost becoming more intense in like shorter spurts than it used to be. And just highlighting those like changes that indigenous people have had for so long withstanding these generations, but it's changing so quickly now due to climate change.

And it was really cool because we presented at a local middle school in Flagstaff and there are so a couple of native kids in the class and just hearing their like eyes light up or widen when you talk Navajo to them, when you introduce yourself to them and them being like, doesn't the mountain mean like always with snow and just having that like, wow, bringing it to the younger generation is so cool.

And seeing how eager and so bright minded they are - is one of my successes that I've already experienced. And I think for my greater success is just continuing to do what I do because I know a lot of times I do feel like I'm out of place. I don't belong where I belong or maybe I'm not doing the right thing.

But as I shared throughout tonight, I've had so many like little rewarding tidbits throughout my career so far. And my career has just started since like May since I graduated. It's kind of weird to talk about, but like, I think it's just so cool just being a person that can step in these spaces, growing that confidence in myself and just being like, wow, okay, like I, I am maybe going to be a voice for my community and I can continue to do so by bridging these gaps I see between the younger and the older generation between indigenous knowledge and also Western science and just allowing myself to reconnect with my culture has been really rewarding.

And I think I see that as like my end goal is just continuing to do what I've done and what I've strived for so long now.

[Ranger Dawn] I think you're going to be an awesome voice for your community. I'm so excited to watch you grow. Yeah.

Well thank you so much for chatting with me. Yeah. Thanks, y'all.

[Ranger Jonah] Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and does not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the national park.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov slash GRCA. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai tribe, the Hualapai tribe, the Navajo nation, the Hopi tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache nation, the Kaibab band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute tribe, the Moapa band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute tribe.

In this episode, Ranger Dawn spoke with Brooke Damon, who was an intern with the Institute for Tribal Enviromental Professionals. She shares what it was like working with Grand Canyon and emphasizing the importance of traditional ecological knowledge (TEK) and first voices through her work in environmental science.

Episode 15

Davis Coonsis Speaks

Transcript

Davis Coonsis Speaks

[Davis Coonsis] My father was a jeweler, so I always had the art. And then my sister, she would use ceramics and paint them. So that's how I was introduced into art. So art was always around me. To me, it just kind of came naturally.

[Meranden] Hello everyone, welcome to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Meranden.

[Ranger Grace] And this is Ranger Grace.

[Meranden] We are very excited to release this episode that features Davis Coonsis. He is a Zuni artist whose work consists of silversmithing, wood carving, stone carving, pottery, and carpentry.

[Ranger Grace] He was able to speak with Ranger Lizzie about how he has diversified his artistry, how he became a demonstrator at Desert View, and explains the significance of some of his pieces he displayed during his interview.

[Meranden] Thank you for tuning in to today's episode. We hope you have been able to explore the different episodes of Season 2.

[Ranger Grace] And here is Davis Coonsis.

[Davis Coonsis] My name is Davis Coonsis. I'm from Zuni, New Mexico. We come from, we're from Zuni.

We're Pueblo people. And this is one of, the Grand Canyon is part of our ancestral lands. But I'm a carver, I'm a wood carver.

And I also do jewelry, silversmithing, and stone carving also. And I also do carpentry, like building houses and stuff.

[Ranger Lizzie] Awesome. Davis, I thought I would just open up this program and kind of ask you, what is your connection with the Grand Canyon?

[Davis Coonsis] Our origin stories come from the Grand Canyon. It is our legend and, well, it's our story that is like, you know how the Christians have their Adam and Eve story. Well, this is where, almost like our origin story.

This is where our people came out from the Grand Canyon somewhere. And that's why there's a strong connection with, you know, anybody if you're like from Zuni or just Native Americans, because this is where our birthplace of our people was.

[Ranger Lizzie] Thanks for sharing. Can you tell me a little bit about your relationship with the demonstrator program here? How did you hear about it?

What made you want to join or be a part of it?

[Davis Coonsis] First time I heard about it, I think, was through my girlfriend, Noreen. She's been coming here to the Grand Canyon for quite a while now, because she's a potter. And, yeah, she knows that program.

So when I met her, she introduced me to this program, and we both have been coming since. It's been like two years since I came over here. So I'm really gratified that, you know, I've been invited to this program.

You know, it gives us exposure, and then, you know, it shows the people, like, the connections that we have to the Grand Canyon.

[Ranger Lizzie] Totally. So you've been a part of our demonstrator program now for about, you said, this is your third year now?

[Davis Coonsis] About second year.

[Ranger Lizzie] Second year, okay. How long have you been an artist?

[Davis Coonsis] I've been an artist, I don't know, I guess, ten years. But then I've kind of been an artist, like, all my life. You know, as a child, you know, you try to draw stuff and do stuff.

It just doesn't come out. Like, you don't become, I guess, serious about it until, like, maybe, like, until after you've had, like, you've done your college and other things, and maybe those things didn't work out, so you go back to your art, and that's where you find most enjoyment, you know, in doing your art. It's like, you know, people call it work, but, you know, you gotta, it's not really work, it's just art.

You enjoy doing what you do, you know.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah, and looking back at, you were saying, kind of your childhood, and you were always creating, what did that look like, kind of creating in your childhood?

[Davis Coonsis] I guess I would draw pictures sometimes, like, late at night, I guess, when, you know, when you have your weekend as a child, you know. You stay up late at night, I mean, sometimes, I don't know why, me and my brother would sometimes, like, be drawing, like, cartoons, like Smurfs or whatever. I don't know, because we're waiting, I guess, for Saturday morning when they used to show cartoons and stuff like that.

But I guess it kind of all started there, you know, just drawing little pictures and things. And then later on, you know, in life, you know, you have your art classes, which they give to you in school. So, you know, do your drawings and stuff like that.

But I didn't go to your regular, you know, like, regular high school, because I went to, like, a Christian high school, and if I went to the regular Zuni high school, I would have been taught, like, they have the Native American arts. But since I went to a Christian high school, I didn't really, wasn't really introduced into the Native arts and stuff like that. Mostly just contemporary art, you know.

But then after, I mean, during high school, I was, my father was a jeweler, so I was, always had the art. And then my sister was, she would use ceramics and paint them. So that's how I was introduced into art.

So art was always around me. To me, I just kind of, I guess, came naturally. And then I would help my father do jewelry.

At first, I would just help him buff, but buff and stuff. And then later on came, like, to where I actually tried the silver, tried the welding the silver, soldering the silver. And then from then on, I just started, you know, liking doing, starting doing woodwork.

While I was doing carving at the same time, too, the stone carving. It's kind of like, I guess everything was just kind of, like, there. So I just kind of, like, dabbing into it.

So that's what I was doing. And then finally, I think I was told to make a bench for some, some cultural event that was happening in Zuni. So, my family, actually.

And so I had to make a small bench. And I think that's where everything started as far as the woodwork. I made a small bench, and then it was just a plain bench.

But then later on, I went to make bigger benches. So I just made one. And then, to me, it just looked plain.

So that's when I just started, like, putting paint on the designs and stuff. And then, and then later on, the carving of the flowers came, came. And then, you know, designing of these, like, the borders.

And that's how it just became. So I guess it's, like, just a progress. Kind of, like, seeing other people's work also.

Like, with the woodworks. See what they've done. And, oh, I can do something a little bit different.

And that's how it just all began. And then, so now that I've grown older, I do, now I do jewelry, too. Like, I do the soldering and everything, actually.

[Ranger Lizzie] So you kind of have a return to jewelry then? Because I know you said you were doing that a little bit with your father.

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah, because it was kind of hard for me when I was just helping my dad. I wasn't, I guess didn't have the patience to do the solder. Because, you know, you have to be a steady hand.

And I guess kind of, like, scared to do it the first time. But eventually I got it. And I'm still learning.

But, you know, I got the basics down.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah, so it seems like you have, you know, when you're introducing yourself, you're doing carving, you're doing jewelry, you're doing pottery. You're having so many different art forms. How do you balance all of these different creative outlets and carpentry as well?

[Davis Coonsis] I guess I don't really try to pick any one medium as a favorite. You know, I just try to do whatever I feel like at the moment. And then just let it flow.

And then once you kind of get tired of it, you go on to another thing. Or you try different mediums or things. But balance, I don't know if I really have balance.

Because, you know, I just try to find the time to do it. That's what I do.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah, it's hard to find the time.

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah.

[Ranger Lizzie] Kind of coming back to this piece, I know you talked a little bit about how you were inspired by your sister's pottery. And we talked about that earlier. Can you just talk a little bit about the designs here that we're seeing?

[Davis Coonsis] Well, I was telling them that I was always wanting to do pottery. But I couldn't, so there was nobody to teach me. But I started doing the woodwork and then got an idea.

I said, well, what if I just put the pottery designs onto here? So that's how it kind of just all began. Everybody liked it.

I showed it to my family, and they liked it. I said, yeah, okay, well, that's when everything started. And some of the designs I get, too, from just, like, nature.

I guess you look around, because you would think, where did our people, you know, our ancestors, you know, where did they get their ideas? And, you know, they didn't have anything like what we have in our modern days. So I would think they probably would have looked at the sky, you know, see the cloud formations, you know, how they have, like, little wisps and swirls and stuff.

And then just probably how they got their ideas, I would think. Because sometimes I would look up in the sky, I would see, like, a little design or just, like, repetitive design and stuff. Like these designs, they're almost like sometimes when I look up in the sky, you can see, like, these designs, just a single one like that.

So that's where sometimes I get my inspirations from. But, like, these, like some of this, I think this rosette design came from the Spaniards, because the Spaniards had a, they had, like, they came with wooden boxes, and, you know, had art on them, and they had, like, a rosette on it. So I think that's where this rosette came from, for the potters, from the Spaniards.

And then these other designs are, like, the deer designs that comes from, like, I guess the potters, you know, their husbands would go out hunting, so they, you know, wanted to, they were building pots, you know, and they were waiting, and they wanted their men to be successful in their hunt. So they would be waiting, and they would paint these deer, almost sort of like a little prayer onto the bow to make them successful in their hunt. So that's why they painted deer on these.

And some of these, like, these designs, like, you know, represent water. I know I didn't say, like, clouds, but, you know, clouds bring rain. So here, you know, in the southwest, that's what the people, you know, always wanted, like, water or rain, so they would paint these little water designs on their pots.

So, you know, like a little prayer, I guess, on the bow. And some of these are, like, this would be, like, a star. This is something they see in the night.

Sometimes, you know, they would paint those stars up on the pots. So, you know, back in the day, you know, the stars helped the people travel to see where they're going. So at night, you know, they have a star to follow to bring them back home safely to where they live.

And I usually put a little turquoise in the middle that gives it, like, the heart of the whole object.

[Ranger Lizzie] That's cool.

[Ranger Lizzie] Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah, I think it's just amazing to see just how, like, rich these designs are and how connected they are also, like, to your history and to your, also just, like, to nature. It's so cool.

I do have, so, you know, as we were saying before, you have so many different mediums that you work in, and I'd love to share with you guys so you have an opportunity to see all of the different art forms that Davis is doing. I thought that we could talk a little bit about them and then pass them around.

[Davis Coonsis] All right.

[Ranger Lizzie] So I know we have some of your wood carvings. Can you tell us a little bit kind of about, I'll show them here, and then I'll also pass them around?

[Davis Coonsis] That one's Butterfly Maidens. You know, we have a little story about the Butterfly Maiden and, you know, how they, kind of like one of the gods in Zuni. So that kind of represents that kind of blessing and summertime and abundance.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah, and I know we talked a little bit about this one, and this was something that you were really proud of. Can you tell me a little bit just about, like, the process of creating?

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah, that's my latest one. It's a credenza. I made this credenza.

It was actually a custom order for a friend of ours, and she wanted it done. So that took quite a while because I think she took, like, two years because I was doing it off and on. But I finally got it done this past.

[Visitor] About a month ago?

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah, about a month ago.

[Visitor] Oh, wow. That's gorgeous.

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah.

[Visitor] That's amazing.

[Davis Coonsis] But that's, like, some of them are, like, I'm still learning. Everything's new to me. Like, the coffee table I've been making, I've made several of them already, but that credenza is something new to me.

So I'm just, like, barely learning how to do all this stuff.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah, I think that's something I've seen. Like, talking to you and a theme that I've seen is, like, your ability to pick up new things and learn and constantly learning throughout your life. And I feel like that's just so inspiring to me.

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah, because I usually don't have, like, somebody to teach me. So I just usually go, like, to YouTube and, you know, watch it right there. Yeah, that's how I learn all my stuff, like the woodwork, the joinery, and other stuff.

That's how I learn it. But it's working out, you know.

[Ranger Lizzie] So we have some examples of kind of different artwork as well. We have this really cute frog. Can you tell us a little bit more about this one, too?

[Davis Coonsis] Oh, yeah, this frog. That was—I started making those frogs when I met Noreen. We started—she started doing—when I started doing pottery when I met her.

So that's one of the things I always wanted to make since I already made stone carvings of frogs. I said, oh, let me try one frog out of clay. So I made one of those.

And this foot made the tongue long because, you know, how they snap flies. It's more like a comical look.

[Ranger Lizzie] We also have some examples of your jewelry.

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah.

[Ranger Lizzie] Can you tell us a little bit about the stones that you see here?

[Davis Coonsis] The stones here are mostly turquoise. I mostly—these hearts was my dad's designs. He used to do inlay jewelry.

So that's kind of like the—this design is from my dad. So I just kind of like continued doing the heart designs. And this one, I mostly like—when I do jewelry, I mostly just like to do stones, like wrap them in silver and stone, you know, because sometimes I just like the stone itself, whereas this is like inlay with other different stones.

It takes a little bit longer for the multicolored jewelry, but sometimes I just like doing the stones themselves. There's one big wood carving project that I was doing in Zuni, New Mexico for ZYEP, the Zuni Youth Enrichment Program, which is kind of still—I'm still kind of working on it. It's not finished yet, but it's probably seven feet tall, a cottonwood tree stump, which they cut to build a ZYEP building, and they asked me to, you know, carve something out of it.

So that's what I've been doing. And what I did was I put in our six-directional animals on it. I carved them into it.

So our six-directional animals in Zuni starts out north with a mountain lion or cougar and then go on to the west. This would be the bear, the black bear. And then the south would be the badger, and then the east would be the white wolf.

And then on the sky at the top would be the eagle, and then the bottom would be the mole. And all the directions have all colors to them, too. So the north would be yellow, the west would be blue, south would be red, east is white, and the top is many colors, all different multicolors, and the bottom is black.

[Ranger Lizzie] Wow.

[Davis Coonsis] So yeah, that's all the colors. So that's what I tried to do in that big carving that I made, the big tree stump carving I made. I tried to put all the animals on there.

But I got some part of it done, but I just need to do some details, but that would be in a further project that I would be able to do. But it's an ongoing project. I just try to be limitless, whatever I do.

Try not to be constricted to one thing. Because art in general, no matter what it is, if you can do it or there's a possibility, then I will try it.

[Ranger Lizzie] Is there anything that you are looking to try or that you want to try in the future?

[Davis Coonsis] Maybe some glass. Glass or something like that. I've seen them how they do it, and it's awesome.

[Ranger Lizzie] Wow.

[Davis Coonsis] Different kinds of glass things. I've seen some people where they make glass into crystals or something, like in a cube, but then the cube has little other cubes inside, like the reflecting something. That's a different thing, but then they blow glass to make little stuff like that.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah.

[Davis Coonsis] I've seen that one, too, is different. I'd like to try one of them, something like that.

[Ranger Lizzie] Wow. Yeah. Well, I think it'll be really cool to see you continue to just try out new things, and everything that you try and everything that we've shown is just so beautiful, so I'm excited to see that continue.

Yeah. Follow your career.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

[Ranger Lizzie] I know that you just most recently picked up pottery, and we were able to show one of your pots, a picture of your pot. Can you tell me a little bit about what inspired you to pick up pottery? We were talking a little bit about that earlier.

[Davis Coonsis] I guess what inspired me was when I first saw my sister and the pottery she was making. I don't know, I guess the designs on them just kind of gravitated to me somehow, and I started liking it, and then I would go to old books and see the Zuni history and see the old potteries on them, and say, Wow, I like this one. I just started liking it, and I always wanted to take a class.

Like I was saying, in high school, everybody else went to Zuni. They had clay, a pottery class, but where I went, they didn't have a pottery class, so I was like, Oh, man. I missed all the art stuff that they used to do in Zuni.

But then after that, that's how I got into pottery, was just looking at the old pictures and just being inspired by it. Like I said, I didn't do pottery for a long time until I met Noreen, and that's when I learned to start making pottery, and I liked it. I liked what I did, and I still want to try some more stuff, and I make a big old pot.

That's one of my probably, I guess, I want to accomplish is a big pot.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah, and I know you and Noreen also make art together.

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah.

[Ranger Lizzie] Can you tell me a little bit more about that collaborative process?

[Davis Coonsis] Well, I seen she had done, I guess, collaborations with some other silversmiths, so when I met her, she had some of those jewelry stuff, and I looked at it and said, I can probably do that. So that's how we just kind of started out, you know, because she already had done it before, and then since I do jewelry, silver work, and that's just how we started. But I like doing it because, you know, it's really different.

Like the pottery designs are all, you know, cool and perfect, you know, it's all cool, and then you got the silver wrapped around, it's all shiny. I like doing that, yeah.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah, and definitely, you know, follow along with that journey because I'm excited to see what you make next. Yeah. Everything that you're doing, it's so cool to see so many processes at work at once.

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah.

[Ranger Lizzie] Yeah. Well, my final question for the night is just, what do you want people to take away from our conversation?

[Davis Coonsis] The Grand Canyon is very sacred to all the Native Americans and probably to everybody else, you know, because, you know, it is a special place, it's one of the wonders of the world, you know, and I guess respect it. But just hope everybody enjoys coming to the Grand Canyon. Enjoy your stay and be safe.

[Ranger Lizzie] Awesome. Well, we do have just a few minutes, I think, before sunset.

[Visitor] Yeah, I've noticed that a lot of your paintings are symmetrical.

[Davis Coonsis] Yeah.

[Visitor] Is symmetry a big part of art?

[Davis Coonsis] For me, it is. I guess I just want to have it always, like you said, symmetrical. So whatever I do, it's always got to be matched in the other way, in a certain way.

It's always got to be symmetrical. So I do measure out my designs, like how I'm going to put them. So that's how I keep it symmetrical.

[Visitor] So for your carving, do you, like on the table specifically, did you hand carve that? Do you have like a router tool?

[Davis Coonsis] Oh, no. So everything is done with just a knife and a chisel. Because if you use a router, you can't get these sharp points.

So I just use a knife and then a chisel. I just cut them out. And then same way with the flower over here, I just use a razor blade and I just cut them off, and then basically that's it.

And then with this part, I just chisel out all the stuff that you don't want.

[Visitor] Incredible.

[Davis Coonsis] Thank you.

[Visitor] Yes? I've noticed that a lot of your artworks have an elk with an arrow pointing to its mouth.

[Davis Coonsis] Oh, this one's a deer. It's a deer. And this is the heart line of it.

It's like the deer always has to have like a heart line or any animal. That's like their breath, their life of it. So that's why we call them the heart line.

So it's like the life of the animal. That's what it means.

[Ranger Lizzie] Oh, yes?

[Visitor] Did you study from other Zuni people or did you study from books?

[Davis Coonsis] I guess, yeah, I would read books on the Zuni people, and then I was beginning to learn more about it, and then everything just made more sense to me. And then the connection here, that's when I kind of got into checking out our other ancestral sites where our people used to live. We lived from here to there, like the Chaco Canyon, Mesa Verde.

Because all our people are connected with those places because that's part of our migrations where our people, from coming out from the Grand Canyon, some of our people went to Mesa Verde, and some of them went down to Chaco, and then they went as far as the Rio Grande River. That's where our people migrated, but along the way, people wanted to stay by the river, so that's how some of the tribes began, because our migrations. Some of them stayed.

They went down a little way, and some of them wanted to stay there because everything was perfect for them. But some people still traveled on. They felt that they didn't have found a middle place.

So we may have went around all the way, like down towards Las Cruces, and then we came all the way back up this way, then all the way towards Zuni, back to Zuni. That's where we're living right now.

[Ranger Lizzie] Well, thank you guys all so much for joining us. Davis, thank you so much for talking to us tonight.

[Davis Coonsis] Thank you. Thank you for coming out.

[Speaker 3] Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal, lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the national park.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

In this episode, Davis Coonsis spoke about the different artforms he works on from silversmithing to carving to carpentry! As he displayed some of his artwork, he was able to explain what each piece meant to himself in his Zuni culture.

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