Grand Canyon Speaks (U.S. National Park Service)

Season 3

Episode 2

Ali Upshaw Speaks

Transcript

[Ali Upshaw]

And so I used to see like all the girls, all the women that went through the program and ran at nationals wear that turquoise jersey. And so in high school, when I had found out that they had offered me a spot on the team, I just kept writing down that whole summer, I want to wear the turquoise jersey, I want to wear the turquoise jersey, because I wanted it so bad. And so that's how things really kicked off.

[Meranden]

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Meranden.

[Lakin]

And this is Lakin.

[Meranden]

We hope you have been enjoying season three so far. We were very fortunate to speak with so many amazing athletes over the summer.

[Lakin]

On that note, this episode is about Ali Upshaw. She is Diné and from Fort Defiance on the Navajo Reservation.

[Meranden]

She spoke with Ranger Eliana about how running has been in her family for generations and is very important to her culture.

[Lakin]

Allie describes the self-discipline of the sport and how her hard work has helped her run for her dream school and even breaking school records at Northern Arizona University.

[Meranden]

Thank you all for tuning in and enjoy this episode with Ali Upshaw.

[Ali Upshaw]

Hello, everybody. (Introduces self in Navajo) My name is Ali Upshaw. I am from Fort Defiance, Arizona, and I currently go to school at Northern Arizona University where I also run cross-country and track, and I am studying public health.

[Ranger Eliana]

Wonderful. I want to ask you, have you been to Grand Canyon before?

[Ali Upshaw]

I've been here a couple of times.

My first time I've ever been to the Grand Canyon was in high school. And my stepdad, he lives pretty close to here. I grew up like in Flagstaff pretty much his whole life.

So he was the first one to ever bring me to the Grand Canyon. So that was my first experience, but it took me kind of a while to get here. But I've been here a couple of times with people in the past.

And the nice thing about Northern Arizona University's cross-country team is that we usually have our preseason out here. So sometimes in like the week before school starts, our coaches, they'll take us here to go for a four-mile run. So we do it along the ridge.

And so we all kind of like have our little team bonding moment with the team and getting to know each other here at the Grand Canyon. And we usually like sit out on the sunset in the first week of our preseason. So that's what we do.

So I've been here twice with the team before, so I have some good memories with the canyon.

[Ranger Eliana]

Wow, that's so awesome. What does it feel like to run along the rim of the canyon?

[Ali Upshaw]

Oh, it's a little scary. You gotta really watch your footing with a lot of the trails here because it's so rocky. But it's fun. It's definitely a lot different feel than a regular run where you're just focusing on training.

You can really relax and just focus on the view and being with teammates. So it's really fun.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so awesome. That sounds like a great team-building activity. Also just coming out here, just for reference for you guys, where Ali is from is pretty far from here.

So the Navajo Nation is about the size of West Virginia. Now she lives closer in Flagstaff, but yeah, this is like a really big area. So I'm so glad that she's here.

I want to ask you, so we spent some time talking earlier today here. What was it like coming back today?

[Ali Upshaw]

It was really fun. I spent the day with you mostly and with Park Ranger Kelli Jones. So I had a really great time with you guys today and especially talking about the canyon and her perspective of everything and the tower.

So it was really, really interesting to just listen and walk around and just be out here for a different purpose than running and just training-wise or just sightseeing-wise. It really brought a different perspective for me. So it was really fun.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so awesome. I feel like the canyon is so different every time you visit and for me, every single time I look at it, it's different. So talking about running, I'm curious, how did you get started with running?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah. So I got started with running kind of like in early age. My whole family, they ran.

So funny enough, my grandpa, he used to coach my mom in high school. And then when I got to high school, my mom ended up coaching me in high school. So all of my uncles, my aunties, they were runners.

And my grandpa used to talk about my mom all the time, all the time about being so fast. So just being a very fast runner in general and how much she used to run and how much races she won. And she also ran at the state meet and she has her own state championship title individually.

And I remember he used to talk about it all the time. And it used to like, I think the very competitive side of me kind of came out in that moment where he would continuously talk about her all the time, all the time. And I used to think to myself, I want to, I want to beat my mom, I want to run faster than her.

And I kept thinking that in my head and every time he would bring it up, I would always think like, I want to be faster than her, I want to be like her. And I want to be faster than my uncles and my aunties. So I really started to get into running when my grandpa told me those stories.

And so that's kind of like how it all began.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so cool that it's like a family thing. Your mom sounds really, really awesome from some of the things you told me earlier today. Is she like a role model for you?

Can you tell me about like any role models that you have in your life?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah. So my mom definitely plays a big role model influence in my life. Not only is she, was she a good runner in high school, but you know, she was really smart and educationally, she went on to get her doctorate degree in veterinary science and has her own nonprofit on the Navajo Nation and her own clinic where she works out of with large animals and small animals.

And so she's one of like the only full time veterinarians on the Navajo Nation, which is also something she does. And so I find a lot of influence from her, not only athletically, but academically as well. And, you know, my grandpa used to keep in mind a lot of like the role models that have come through Navajo Nation and, you know, the way runners, you know, big name runners, you know, names like Alvina Begay, Billy Mills, all native runners that have run at such a high level.

And they've always, I guess, shown me that, like, if they can do it, I can do it too. So they definitely played a strong role in allowing me to pursue my dreams.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so awesome. I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about the importance that running has for your tribal community or for your culture.

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah, so there's a lot of cultural ties that our community has to running. And, you know, not only is it viewed and very popular in competition, but it's also present in a lot of like our cultural ceremonies. And, you know, growing up, I was always taught that running was a form of prayer and a blessing.

And my grandpa used to get me up really early in the morning because they say that when you're up that early and you see like, if you've ever been like up really, really early and you see like the the blue hue of like the horizon and that light, they say that's like when the holy people are out and that's when you should be running and that's when you should be just out there running in general. And so that was a big piece he used to tell me growing up. And so, you know, growing up in high school, that was a big thing for me was the cultural ties and not only, you know, viewing running as a sport, but also as a cultural value in my life that has kept me grounded.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so cool. OK, so I want to get into a little bit of the nitty gritty here. So can you tell me how you kicked off your collegiate career in running?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah, so it it pretty much all started in high school. I think when I really started to compete more and get better, I started to realize, you know what, maybe I am pretty good at this and it can, you know, I think not until like my first college offer, I really started to realize that, hey, I can go to college to do this and I can continue to doing to do what I love. And I wanted to run Division One, you know, when I had first gotten into my junior year.

And I made that a priority for myself that I wanted I wanted to be there on the big stage early on. I didn't have, now that I think about it, I didn't have a whole lot of offers to begin with, but I had like a sliver of a chance to run for the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque. And so the coach gave me a partial scholarship to run out there, even though it wasn't a full one.

So but, you know, at the time, UNM was pretty good running school and they had just gotten like their first or one of like their national titles on the women's side in cross country. And they had big names like Wynnie Collotti and Edna Kurgat that all ran internationally and were really good runners. And I really wanted to be a part of that championship atmosphere, like so bad.

I remember when I first got the offer, I closed out every other offer that came my way. I was like, I'm going to the University of New Mexico. And if you've ever seen like UNM's national championship jerseys, they're different from like their regular season ones.

Cool thing about UNM is that they have very unique colored jerseys. They have the red and turquoise combo and not many schools actually have that colorway. So it ties back to like the Albuquerque culture, New Mexico culture and slivers of Native people and their cultural significance of just Albuquerque as a whole with the color of turquoise.

I want to wear the turquoise jersey because I wanted it so bad. And so that's how things really kicked off was like I had gotten a small offer from the University of New Mexico. And then when the coaching staff had changed like in 2023, everything kind of changed.

Everything took a shift. The coach that had recruited me had left. And so I was kind of left with a little bit of unknown.

And I decided that I wanted to go somewhere with a program still in place. And, you know, intact and still was like had a good foundation instead of one that was like shaky with the coaching change. So I decided to go to Northern Arizona University to run for Coach Mike Smith.

So that's where I've been for the last two years.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so cool. I love that you say that you didn't get a ton of offers, but you got one that mattered the most. Yeah.

And then when you moved schools, like you continued to make the best of it. And it sounds like you've done a lot of really cool stuff at NAU, even outside of your running. Can you tell us a little bit about like your studies?

What did you major in?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah. So throughout my undergrad at the University of New Mexico, I was a community health education major. And then when I got to Northern Arizona University, I decided to enter into the public health program.

So that's what I've been doing for the last two years. And so I graduated with my bachelor's in public health. And so I'm currently enrolled into the master's of public health program at NAU.

And the nice thing about it is that there's a health promotion branch, so they have an emphasis in indigenous health. So that's one thing I'm going into this fall.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so awesome. Okay. So you told me before about your capstone project, and I thought it was super, super cool.

So could you tell us a little bit more about that and how it connects with your running?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah. So this was a topic that came up earlier today, but with our capstone, we have a bunch of different organizations that come in and partner with NAU in creating a three-week intervention program that is in the health sector. So there's organizations like different local elementary schools, and the one that I was able to work with was Girls on the Run.

So I don't know if you're familiar with Girls on the Run, but it's a national nonprofit that works specifically with young girls in building self-esteem and confidence. So they have a bunch of different grades and age groups that they work with in their programs and really in the holistic side of running. And so it was actually a group of Native students that were able to design a three-week intervention program that centered on increasing Indigenous youth's presence within the program.

So one way we really did that was highlighting a Native student-athlete that runs for Coconino Community College, and her name is Amber Woody. And I actually went to high school with her, but we actually did a digital storytelling thread, and we did it primarily to kind of highlight her journey throughout her running career and more so trying to relate a lot of her stories and her values with a lot of the Native girls that do live in Northern Arizona. You know, there's a lot of Native population there, and we really wanted to try and get them involved with Girls on the Run and increase Indigenous presence within that way.

So that's the one thing we did. And then we also did an infographic and then a presentation at a local school. So it was really fun.

That was the highlight of my spring semester.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so awesome. That's such an important goal to strive for, and you're doing such good work. Is working with Native youth like a passion of yours?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah, for sure. In the past, I've worked as a camp facilitator for Wings of America, and so that's been a really like a turning point for me in understanding what health strategies can look like for Native youth, especially in thinking about how it can be culturally relevant to them, to their cultural identity, because we have so many different prevention methods, strategies, but none that are really tailored towards Native people and considers a lot of like their backgrounds and their values. So that's one thing that I'm really have been interested in, in my studies is trying to figure out how to fit those programs into a more culturally relevant way for our people.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah, that's so cool. I love that you, you know, you're going to school and you're studying something that's so important, but you're tying it back to helping your community and helping young people succeed. I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about like, you mentioned that you're going for your master's in public health as well.

What kind of like dream world, what would you want to do with that? Or like, what kind of impact would you like to have on the world with that?

[Ali Upshaw]

Wow, that's a good question. I think one thing for me, my dream world is that all Indigenous youth can have a high adequate access to resources to leverage their, I guess their pursuit of running collegiately or going to college or, you know, pursuing their athletic goals, because we center so much on education. And, you know, it would be such a dream to see a center that focuses on the athletic pursuits of Native kids because, you know, sports play so big of a role, like not in my life, but, you know, it's evident in the way that it provides a sense of belonging, identity, and gives a chance for Native kids to explore and connect back to their cultural identity, especially with running is so tied closely to our culture. And so, you know, sports play such a big role for Native youth. So that would be like my dream is like there's just a center, a health center that focuses on Native youth's athletic pursuit.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yes, that's so awesome. I love that. And I love that you want to help young people.

I feel like it's so, so beneficial if you can connect with your culture as well as with sports because they're so good for you, right? I want to ask you another like big question. If you could give any advice to Native youth when it comes to running or any pursuits they might want to go after, like what would you say to them?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah, I like that question too. Oh my gosh, I think I would just say that, you know, there's a lot of, I guess, doubt that comes with pursuing your athletic dreams, your educational dreams. But I guess the one thing that I would say that's really helped me in continuing my goals is that there's a calling and there's like there's a dream and there's a calling for a reason.

And that is literally like you have the capacity to go for that dream. And there's, you know, you're so capable of pursuing that. And so I think that's one thing I would like keep saying to young kids because there's very ambitious kids out there, there's very ambitious people that have a thought that lingers in their mind and it's there for a reason.

So I would just say that like it's there for a reason and that you should pursue it and you're so capable of doing it.

[Ranger Eliana]

Wow, that's so important to hear. I think a lot of a lot of people, not just kids, but everyone needs to hear that and feel empowered to reach their goals. I want to highlight one of your big wins here.

And that's the Big Sky Conference Championships from 2024. So I was wondering if you could just tell us like a little bit about that race, like what you won and how that impacted you or how that experience was for you.

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah, so that was probably definitely one of my favorite races of the season. So if you don't know kind of like how race schedules work, so there's a there's a regular season and then you have your conference race and then your regional race and then the national race. So conference is kind of like the a lot of the people that are within the conference.

And so I run, so NAU is a part of like the Big Sky Conference. So, yeah, I don't know how much to say, but it was really fun because I've never, ever won a cross country race during my time in college. So that was actually my first ever like win in the college race like ever.

And it was really fun. It happened in my last my last season because college running is so hard. It's so tough.

There's so many, you know, it keeps getting better and better every year. So for me, it was a special moment because, you know, we had a race plan kind of like set in for that race. And so we my family got to be there to to see me have my first win.

So it was really fun. I really did enjoy that race.

[Ranger Eliana]

So, yeah, that's so awesome. That's a big win. And when you win something like that, does your team or your family or do you yourself treat yourself to anything?

Was there any like celebration?

[Ali Upshaw]

Some of those races, we some of them are just like very gritty. At the time it was in Idaho. So in the fall, so it was like kind of cold.

So the nice thing was that, you know, our team won and they let us go back to the hotel. They let us go back to the hotel. A lot of the times we don't get to go back to the hotel because it's same day trip back home to Flagstaff.

So we'll go straight from the race back to Flagstaff. And so you're sitting on the plane for like you're sitting down for a long time because we fly to Phoenix and then we have to drive back to Flagstaff. And we do that all after racing.

So, you know, we won that race and they let us go back to the hotel to take a shower and we left an hour after. But my grandma, she was really happy for me. She brought me like a bag of pinons.

So she's like, go ahead and take it with you. And I was like, OK, thank you. So that was what we did after.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so nice. And can you for the audience, let us know what are pinons?

[Ali Upshaw]

Oh, so those are a lot of the trees that you see. Let's see. So there's a pinon tree there.

So a lot of the times, like around, would you say August, September is a lot of times when the pinon nuts, they'll fall down from the tree. And so the way you kind of like prepare that is a lot of people prepare it very differently. But my family, we use a lot of salt.

And we stir it like in a skillet. So we go pinon picking like during around that time. So yeah, they just fall from the pinon tree.

And a lot of times people will sell them. But yeah, they're pretty good. So you would eat them as like regular sunflower seeds.

[Ranger Eliana]

It sounds so good. And I love that we have the trees right here. If you guys could see them to anyone listening to this podcast, they're like our short little pine trees here.

But this actually segues perfectly into my next question. So when we do these interviews, we like to ask a fun question. So I want to ask you, what is your favorite native food?

[Ali Upshaw]

My favorite native food. Wow. So there's a lot.

But I would say my favorite is it's called Neeshjizhii stew. So a lot of times it's like steamed corn. And then you'll have like with mutton with like sheep's meat.

And so it's that's like my favorite meal like ever. So like stew, all the stews that my grandma makes. That's my favorite.

I'm not big on like, I mean, I do love a navajo taco here and there. But stew, that's yeah. Sometimes I go back like home and I'm like, Grandma, like I'm coming back home and she'll be like cooking away and I'll be like, okay, thanks.

[Ranger Eliana]

That sounds so good right now. And you mentioned sheep. I saw that you grew up on a ranch.

So can you tell us like about what it's like where you're from? Like growing up on a ranch?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah. So I yeah, I grew up on a small ranch. We have like sheep, cows, horses.

My sister's really involved with barrel racing. So she does that with rodeo. But yeah, growing up, I used to remember this.

I was so busy in high school, like two times busier than I was in college, honestly, because it would be like, go to school at 8am. And then you spend all day three o'clock. And then you have practice from like three to six.

And then 6pm, you go back home, let's feed the horses, chase the sheep back in, chase the cows back in. And it would be done like when it's dark outside at that point. And that was like literally a weekday for me was like doing that consecutively.

And I always remember it. And I think about it sometimes and I'm like, dang. I was really, really busy.

And even when I go back home, I still get put to work. So yeah, so sometimes there's my grandma, she does not believe in rest days, honestly. She does not believe in rest days.

And sometimes we joke around with her like, dang, like, how are you like still going like sit down? And she's just still going. And but yeah, growing up on a ranch was like, definitely a part of myself that I guess, that I kind of, not many people, I guess, know.

So every time I'm, yeah, I guess in the city, it's so different. That life is so different, like urban life and res life. And going up on a ranch, they're different.

So every time I get to go home, I get kind of a little humble awakening of like, just going, going, going. And then I'm in this city where I'm like this urban kid and I get to, you know, take, lay down without getting yelled at.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so funny. And it's so funny that you say that life was harder in high school than in college when you were running. Yeah.

Also, because you mentioned like, being able to rest at the hotel as your reward for winning. I can tell you work really, really hard. I want to ask you, so like, you mentioned this summer, you're not running.

What is it like to not be running for a summer? Because you're such a hard worker. Like, is that weird?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah, it is a little weird. Like, kind of, you know, I've taken the summers a lot more seriously in the past in terms of training. You know, I do run like consecutively still, but like not on the level in which like I've done past summers because I don't have a cross country season anymore.

So I've run out of all of my cross country eligibility. So for five consecutive years, I've done like my summers have just been filled with training and like focusing on the fall. And so it's really weird for me.

Like, I've been really trying to step out of like my comfort zone and like do new things and like kind of step away from training. But it's definitely a new period of my life where I'm trying to get used to it with like not having a cross country season. So yeah, it's a shift for sure.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah, I can definitely speak to that as well. I'm not a runner, but having graduated college recently, you know, it's like such a pivotable time for our identities as well. You kind of told me a little bit before about like what your future with running might look like.

I was wondering if you were interested in speaking about that at all, because like there's actually, she told me there's a lot of business that goes into a running career. And I think that's so interesting.

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah, I know the business side of running is so, it's so complicated in different ways. It's definitely something that I don't really, I'm not fully knowledgeable in. But, you know, there are some, you know, post collegiate opportunities to run professionally and insights for me, which I really do want to do.

And that's been like a goal ever since, you know, halfway through my college career. And, you know, that's been a goal for me. And that's something I really want to do.

But there's a lot of logistics that go behind it. And yeah, the business world is a little scary with, you know, a lot of things. There's a lot of language that's used differently in the business world of running that I kind of got to get used to.

So yeah, I have a couple of opportunities, insights, but I also might pursue a half year to run my outdoor season, because I don't have any more cross country or indoor. So if you don't know, a lot of like collegiate athletes, they run all year. So it's cross country, then they have indoor in the wintertime.

And then in the spring, it's straight into outdoor season. On the outdoor track, you get all three seasons throughout the year. Whereas like basketball, it's just that season in, you know, starting from winter all the way to spring.

So I only have outdoor left. And so I'm still working that whole thing out of should I go back to finish that? Or should I work with what I have now in terms of like value?

So, you know, the last, they say in the business world of running that, you know, you're as good as your last race, which kind of sucks with the kind of like the credibility you build throughout your college career that kind of like sets you up for post collegiate opportunities, which is a little hard and comes with a little bit of pressure to do well. But I would say that like, you know, talking with other people that I did set myself up pretty good to explore different avenues, but it's it's very still kind of like in the unknown.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah, that definitely sounds stressful. Like there could be a lot of pressure on you. But you're also so talented and you have so much going on in your life, like with your studies as well.

Going back for your master's is such a big deal. And I'm so, so impressed. I'm like, I don't know, no matter what you do, I know it's going to be great.

Thank you. Oh, of course. Okay, so I'm going to kind of wrap it up here before we open it up if the audience has any questions.

But I just want to ask, like, is there anything else you want to leave us with or leave like all the people listening to this with? That's a big question.

[Ali Upshaw]

No, I'm really glad everybody came. I really appreciate that. And this is really such a unique experience for me being at the Canyon is like in for a podcast that I guess I would never thought I'd be a part of is something.

Yeah, just so new to me. And it brings a different perspective of what the Canyon means, you know, you know, Kelli had mentioned a lot about like, you know, the whole purpose for the podcast. And why it's called Grand Canyon speaks is, you know, letting the Canyon know that we as native people are still here.

And we're speaking into the Canyon and letting it know that we're still here. And so that something that has really resonated with me during my time here and just a whole different approach to what I usually come to the Canyon for.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so awesome. Thank you so much for coming here and, and sharing your voice with us. This is a big day for me to my first interview.

And Ali is so, so wonderful. She's so talented. And she's so easy to talk to.

So I really, really appreciate you coming here and speaking to the Canyon with us.

[Ali Upshaw]

Thank you so much. And you did really good for your first interview too. So yeah.

[Ranger Eliana]

Oh, thank you. Okay, our work is not done yet. I want to see if anybody here in our audience has any questions for Ali before the sun sets.

[Audience]

I was just curious to know, did you end up being faster than your mom? Since I know that was a goal.

[Ali Upshaw]

Yes. Yeah, no, I joke about it with her because my grandpa used to just talk nonstop about her and I was like, I made it a mission to just be faster. But yeah, no, I appreciate that question.

[Meranden]

What has the difference been from running on the rez? And then running in a place where there's not a lot of indigenous runners?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah, no, that was a really big shift for me. And when I first left the res, it's so different. I feel like especially because, you know, running on for all native high school, you run with a lot of other Navajo kids and you train with a lot of Navajo kids.

And you're so used to that environment. And you're taken from one place that you've known for so long and you've been around the people for so long. And then you go to a completely urban area where all the runners are non-native and even some international.

In my first year running, we had girls from Norway, Germany, and all different places that I wasn't used to. And I think the main difference was just the culture shock of just getting used to an urban environment and kind of like almost feeling lonely, in a sense, being the only one that's going through this. So we had a Native student-athlete summit in Indiana like two, three weeks ago.

And that was a conversation that a lot of Native student-athletes had at that summit where it was like, sometimes you do feel lonely. And it's really hard to connect with some other non-native athletes that don't know your background. But that's the one thing about sports and running is that it really keeps you grounded in goal setting and your personal identity of kind of like almost in a way like running has a very cultural significance to me.

And it's like when I'm running, I can always know. I always know that I'm still connected to my culture. I'm still doing the same thing that I'm doing that I would be doing at home.

So I guess, yeah, just that culture shock of everything was the main difference.

[Audience]

I have a question. There's been a big theme in this talk of like working hard and glimmers of rest. And I'm curious as to what rest does look like for you.

How do you take care of yourself as a runner? And almost going all the way to like what's advice you would give to other runners of how to take care of themselves?

[Ali Upshaw]

Yeah, that's a good question. I think rest for me, especially with, I guess, higher level running competition. That's one thing our coaches like really stress upon is like rest and recovery.

But I would say like with training, I usually leave a day where I'm completely off. I don't keep going consecutively every day throughout the week. And I guess one thing is you have to like really listen to your body.

It's not bad to take a rest day and it's not bad to like miss a day or so. And I think that's one thing that I would give advice about. But in those heavier mileage week for me, it's like completely off of my feet like and making sure that I have like a lot of food throughout the day, I guess I would say.

So, yeah.

[Ranger Eliana]

Well, thank you so much, Ali. Again, I do want to say that I feel like you're such a great role model for young people. And yeah, all that you do is really so, so amazing.

So, thank you for being here. And thank you to our audience as well. And we will be here if you guys have any questions for us.

So, thanks, guys. Have a good night.

[Ranger Jonah]

Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we're on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

In this episode, Ranger Eliana speaks with collegiate runner, Ali Upshaw, who is Diné from Fort Defiance on the Navajo reservation. She talks about how she started her athletic career with family who are also runners and made it to her dream college team through some intense training along the way. Through the hard work of it all, she describes how running keeps her grounded, accomplish big goals, and stay connected to her culture.

Episode 3

Jason Amador Speaks

Transcript

[Jason Amador]

Still the fact that, you know, playing in front of 12,000, 14,000 people, all the media coverage, seeing all the celebrities walk by, seeing, you know, where you came from at NEI, a school you never heard about. To now, Grand Canyon [University] playing against Maryland, and, you know, we're in the same venue spot as Oregon, U of A, Colorado State, and all these big time schools. It was just such an awesome and amazing season looking back at it now.

[Lakin]

Hello and welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

[Dan]

And I'm Ranger Dan.

[Lakin]

This episode features Jason Amador, a member of the Colorado River Indian Tribe, who is an athlete at Grand Canyon University.

[Dan]

He takes us through his basketball journey, where he faced injuries, the shutting down of his college, and family hardships.

[Lakin]

Through these difficulties, he was reminded by many support systems of how determination and discipline will strengthen him to better days.

[Dan]

Jason shares the triumphs of his career, going from his small hometown to D1 basketball, and how he uses his story to inspire Native youth of different tribal communities.

[Lakin]

And here is Jason Amador.

[Jason Amador]

Before I introduce myself, I just want to say thank you to the Grand Canyon National Park and the staff and Meranden for allowing me to come out here and speak to you guys today. So my name is Jason Amador. I'm a member of the Colorado River Indian Tribes, which is located in Parker, Arizona.

It is the western side of Arizona, close to Lake Havasu. On my mom's side, I'm Navajo. My clans are Coyotes Pass Clan and Two Came to the Water.

And on my dad's side, I'm Mojave and Quechan. I went to Parker High School, where I graduated. And then from there, I got a scholarship to go play basketball at the University of St. Catherine, which is an NEI school located in San Marcos, California, which is San Diego County. And from there, I got a chance to go play over at Grand Canyon, where now I'm studying for my Master of Science in Leadership.

[Meranden]

Awesome. Okay, and a quick question. Have you been to the Grand Canyon before?

[Jason Amador]

I have been to the Grand Canyon before when I was young with my family and a couple years ago. And it feels like every time when I visit the Grand Canyon, it looks like a perfect picture. For me, I'm not too fond of heights, so I kind of stay away from the rim.

But every time I come, it's just super beautiful, and it just always takes my breath away when I look at it.

[Meranden]

We're really interested in just understanding how you got into basketball and what really kicked off your basketball journey.

[Jason Amador]

So for me, growing up, I had a best friend. His name was Damian, and I consider him a brother now. So when I was in kindergarten, it was a funny story.

I had no friends the first day, and I remember Damian was sitting on the bench outside of our class. I didn't know him at the time. I sat on the bench with him, waiting for class to start, and he had a Pop-Tart.

And any other Pop-Tart comes with two pieces, so he gave me one, I gave him one. And that's kind of how our friendship started. So from there, like any other brother, you want to be close with them and spend time with them.

So for me, I was always into football, but he loved basketball so much, he got me into basketball. So we created a local reservation team called the Arizona Outlaws, and Damian's mom and my dad actually worked together at the Special Diabetes Project on a reservation. So we made an AAU team called the Arizona Outlaws, and we played in all these local tournaments all over.

And me and Damian every day always were brothers. We pushed each other every day. We worked out, played basketball all the time, spent the night at each other's houses, did Halloween together.

We did everything together. But unfortunately, the day before sixth grade starts, me and my dad were out in Vegas getting hats made for the whole team to surprise them. And I remember sitting in the store, and I remember my dad gets a phone call, goes outside, and I'd never seen him act this way.

So I was kind of surprised and kind of like, what's happening? So I just remember he told me, came to the side and said, hey, Damian and his family, they got in a car accident. And unfortunately, they didn't make it.

So for me, from that moment and that day on, I knew I wasn't playing for myself no more. I was playing for something bigger than myself. And that's what made me and kicked off my journey to go do what I do now.

So for every day, whenever I wake up, that was something that instilled a spark in me. And for me, whenever we played a tournament from that day moving on, it rained. And for us in Native American culture, when it rains, it means something sacred.

It means they're kind of watching over you. And literally for like two, two and a half years, every time we had a tournament, it always rained. And for me, that's something that always kicked off my basketball journey.

And that's where it got me in today. And just kind of knowing that he's up there and his family and he's watching over me. And I know he's proud of me.

And I'm trying to do my best to make him proud.

[Meranden]

Yeah. Wow. That's a really great way to keep you inspired.

You know, and I know that this started really young and you made your way to high school. And how did you go? How did your basketball journey continue after high school?

[Jason Amador]

Yeah. So after high school, you know, growing up in Parker High School, I'm pretty sure a lot of you guys haven't heard of Parker. So knowing that when I was going into my sophomore, junior and senior seasons, I wasn't getting recruited a lot.

I had all these accolades. I was Player of the Year, Offensive Player of the Year, First Team All-State. I was a McDonald's All-American nominee.

I had all these thousand points, club, had all these accolades, first team, everything. I wasn't getting looked at. No schools were reaching out to me.

And looking back at it now, what I know now is that a lot of these recruiters and a lot of these college coaches, they don't go out to the reservations to seek and recruit kids. They go to the big cities like Phoenix, Las Vegas, California, all these big-time cities. So for me, going into it, I was like, why am I not being recruited?

And I just remember going into my senior season, reaching out to all these schools, sending out my tapes and everything like that. I got reached out to by a coach, Kevin Williamson, at a D2 camp called Cal State San Marcos in San Diego County. This camp was the day after my graduation from high school.

And this was my last chance to go play college basketball. So we woke up at 4 in the morning, took off to the camp, drove there. And getting there, I always think about it, too, because it's always crazy to look back and think about the journey along the way.

And I know when I got there, I had my best performance. I knew that this was my last chance to go try to make the college basketball team, pursue my dream. This was my last chance.

Going through all the drills, I couldn't miss a single shot. My family came up to me, like, have you missed? I'm like, I have not missed, you know, going off screens, you know, like dunking the basketball, like everything like that.

I was doing everything I could to stand out. And I remember it came down to the All-Star game. A lot of these college coaches and camps host an All-Star game where the seniors and juniors play against each other, and they see who they want to recruit, and the freshmen and the sophomores.

And I remember when it was time to get picked, I was going into it. And I remember the coach looked at me, and he put me with the freshmen and the sophomores. And for me in that moment, it was really, like, looked upon like that was the first time I ever had my confidence taken away from me, because I worked so hard.

I had all these accolades. I knew I was a good basketball player. But for a coach to look at me and to say, hey, you're going to be the freshmen and the sophomores, I remember my family saying, like, yeah, go out there, you know, make sure you kill it.

But for me in that moment, it was a lot of hard. It was really hard for me to do that, because that was the first time I ever had anything taken away from me like that. So I just remember, like, I didn't want to, like, play my hardest.

I was like, this is it. And then after the camp, I talked to the head coach, and he was like, yeah, like, we could try to make something work, enroll into school, and come to me on the first day, and we could see what we can do. So it didn't work out, and I remember I was in the parking lot.

The assistant coach that invited me out, he was walking away, and my dad told me, he was like, I did everything I could for you up to this point. You know, I can't talk for you anymore. Like, you're a grown man now.

Like, it's time for you to go speak up for yourself, and this is your dream. You have to go chase it. And for me, I was always a shy kid.

I never liked talking to people. I always shied away. So for me in that moment, I knew my dream was walking out the door.

So I chased after him, said everything I could in a minute, and I got his contact information. He actually knew a former player of mine that came out from Parker. His name was Vegas Davis, and we made that connection really well.

He ended up leaving Cal State San Marcos, and he became the head coach at the University of St. Catherine. And going into the summer, I remember getting a phone call from him, and he said, yeah, Jason, I want you to be my first recruit. So he gave me a scholarship, and that's where I ended up going after high school.

[Meranden]

Wow. So all the determination, all that work, it really paid off, right? Yeah.

And then, like, after that, you were able to go to something greater, like going from that to now GCU. What made you choose GCU?

[Jason Amador]

So what made me go to GCU, I wish I could say, you know, it was as simple as they reached out to me. They got my film. They reached out to my coach, and it was simple as that.

They wanted me. It was not the case. So I ended up going to the University of St. Catherine, which was an NEI school, and it was the smallest Orthodox Christianity school in the country. And when you think of university, you think of, like, tens of thousands of students, all these big resources, everything. So I ended up going there. It was about 150 kids, and they were 90 to 95 percent all athletes.

It was an all-athlete school. So when I went there, it was literally like a two-story building when I first got there. So going there, you know, I was just so grateful for the opportunity to go play another four years.

So I had a great time doing that. Played against a lot of great D1 schools, San Diego State, Long Beach State, Utah State, Cal State Fullerton, Arizona State. But along the way, I noticed I had some pain in my hips.

So at the age of 20, after my first year of college basketball, everyone was telling me, oh, like, you probably got tight hips, keep stretching. So I kept doing that. I kept playing through it.

And I got to a point where I noticed I couldn't play defense no more. I couldn't sit in the car for too long. Like, it just started hurting.

So finally, I go get an MRI, and they tell me that I need double hip surgery and that all my ligaments, most of them, have been torn. So for me, I had to get double hip surgery at the age of 20. And trust me, that's not any way how you want to spend your summer is when you get double hip surgery, you're in a bed for two months.

You can't walk. You're in a wheelchair having to have your parents, you know, wheel you around the house and help you shower and help you go to the bathroom. I won't go too far into that because I don't want to think about that anymore.

But it was just a lot of adversity along the way. We don't have the resources as the big schools, you know, like our coach had a saying, and it was FIO. It was figure it out.

And that came to, like, rooming, being cramped in, like, little small vans, going to away games, only getting one meal a day. So going into that, you know, after my surgery, I was out for a year and a half. A year and a half is a long time in college basketball.

It's like dog years. Like, you have a certain clock when it comes to basketball and college basketball. So for me, I was out for a year and a half.

The first day I came back, I was rushing to get back. I was telling the doctors, like, I'm good. My hips are good.

Like, I'm ready to play. So the first day I come back and the first practice, literally five minutes into our first drill, we're doing a post-up drill. And I remember I'm guarding my defender, and I had my hand on his back.

As soon as I moved to put my hand away, he backed up into my hand, and I ended up breaking my finger. So after a year and a half of being out, first day I come back, I break my finger. So now I'm out, like, two more months.

And for me in that moment, it's like I developed, like, a why me attitude. Like, why did this happen to me? Like, why do I have to go through all this stuff?

And later I learned, like, God will humble you before he elevates you. And these are all tests along the way to make sure that you're capable and strong for it. So going into it, I go into my senior season.

You know, I play. I had a great season. I had my career high on senior night.

And a month before graduation, I knew I wanted to play. I had an extra grad year. I wanted to get my master's and play another year.

I remember a month before graduation, I'm working on my senior thesis, and I get an e-mail from the school, and it's from the president of the school. And it says the University of St. Catharines has shut down effective immediately. And I'm looking at that.

It looks like spam. Spam e-mail. So then all of a sudden my phone starts blowing up, and I look at my phone, my coaches.

It's my teammates. It's my classmates. And I'm looking at it, and literally it's this e-mail right here, and that's how I found out my school shut down.

Literally the grades were posted the same day. And I'm looking at it like, I've got to find a new school to play at. And I'm like, this doesn't seem real.

Like, how did your school just shut down? So at that point, I'm wondering, like, if I'm going to get my credits, if I'm going to get my diploma. Like, what's going to happen to all the guys?

Like, all my coaches, everyone's got to find a new school, a new home to play at. So going into it, I had to find a new home. And for me, I reached out to a lot of schools.

I had a dream of playing Division I. And for me, I was fortunate enough to reach out to all these schools. And looking back on it now, it's pretty cool.

As a kid from a reservation, talking to schools like San Diego State, Long Beach State, Washington State. GCU, you know, it didn't really cross my mind. But looking back at it, I knew I wanted to play in front of my family.

And the year before GCU, I spoke to Bryce Drew, who's the head coach at a summer camp. And a fast-forward a year later, you know, my head coach has his number. We reach out.

Nothing comes back yet. All the e-mails I sent to all the assistant coaches, the athletic trainer, everyone at GCU, it's not working. There's no response coming to it.

So in my head, I knew I was going to try to go play at San Diego State. Going into the summer, it's crunch time. I got to choose a school.

So I send out a last-minute e-mail to Jamie Boggs, who is the athletic director at GCU. And when you look up e-mails at GCU, like on the staff website, they don't have them. The higher you go up, they don't have the e-mails.

So I literally guessed her e-mail, and I sent out an e-mail as a last resort. The next day, I look over my phone, and she responds. And she's from San Diego, and she heard about my school's closure.

So she got me in contact with Coach Drew and Coach Shaw over at GCU. And from there, you know, I was able to go out there, do a visit, see some of the guys, meet the coaches. And fast-forward a couple weeks later, didn't hear nothing from them.

And I'm out coaching at a high school tournament in Phoenix. I get a call from Coach Shaw, brings me into his office, and he said, you know, we heard nothing but great things about you, and we'd love to have you, and welcome to GCU men's basketball. So that's why I chose GCU.

[Meranden]

Wow. That's a long process. I think, everyone, we should give him a hand for, like, that.

That's insane. Yeah, you've come a long way. That's exactly what we need to hear is, like, these people like you, they don't get that kind of recognition.

They don't know these kind of pathways that our indigenous athletes are going through. And, like you mentioned, not a lot of recruiters or people like that go to the reservation for this kind of talent, and it's there. So, yeah, you went from res to getting, unfortunately, those injuries to your school shutting down to now at GCU to having a very successful season.

So, you know, with Grand Canyon University, I've just seen how they've excelled in the championships that they won over the past few years and then winning again this year. I'm just curious of, with this very exciting season that you had with them, what are some of the highlights that you've had while being at Grand Canyon University?

[Jason Amador]

So some of the highlights I had is, one, I've seen it from NEI to D1 is the resources. I mean, the facilities of a 24-7 access to the gym. We have a chef that makes food after every practice, every game.

So, like, having a limited food, being able to go in there and get any Gatorade, protein drink, smoothie. You know, one day it could be, like, spaghetti, chicken parm, chicken alfredo, spaghetti meatballs. Like, this was so surreal.

I've never had this at my old school. So just that and just the amount of fans and, you know, the amount of love that we get, that's one of the highlights I had. Just, you know, going, transitioning from NEI to D1.

But moving forward into this season, I actually got baptized by Coach Shaw. He's the one that actually kind of recruited me. And for me, the reason I got baptized is just a blessing in the journey that it took for me to get here.

It made me realize of how blessed and, you know, how God's always been by my side. I was warming up before a game. Kids came from spiraling in, filling up the student section.

And I'm sitting there, and I'm like, you know, it hit me. Like, I wanted to dedicate and, you know, devote my life to Christ. So I told Coach Shaw before warm-ups.

And the next day, we brought the team out, and I got baptized in the pool. And it was such a surreal feeling, and I'm glad my brothers got to witness. And it was such an awesome moment.

Anytime I win in the game, they always chant it for me. The Havocs is our student section. So imagine you have an arena of 7,000 people chanting, like, we want Jason.

So for me, like, that was such a surreal feeling. You know, I love them for that. And we have an amazing student section.

We have amazing fans. You know, we have amazing coaching staff and an amazing team with it. So I remember this particular shot right here was against Utah Valley, and they were number one in our conference.

And that game was special to me because my family came down all the way from Gallup and Navajo Nation and had a lot of friends come down. And just seeing them in the stands when I made the three, you know, they were all jumping up and down, so excited. So just being able to see that, my family in the stands, you know, celebrating and all the sacrifice they did for me and all the love and support they've shown over me, it just made it, like, worthwhile.

And just seeing them jump up and down, that's what I do it for. And then we actually won the WAC conference, and that was probably the most amazing feeling. You know, we were second in our conference, and we played Utah Valley in the championship in Las Vegas at the New Orleans Casino.

And I just remember the feeling of, you know, just the confetti dropping down, all the cameras, all the media came up, and it was just such an awesome feeling being able to cut down a net and being able to get a ring and just knowing that you're going to have a banner up in the GC arena for life. And that's something that I loved. And from there, you know, we got a chance to go play in the March Madness tournament.

And that was such an amazing, you know, amazing time. You know, the 64 teams, the best teams all in college basketball, being able to go out there. We played against Maryland over in Seattle, Washington.

Unfortunately, we didn't come out with the outcome that we wanted. But just still the fact that, you know, playing in front of 12,000, 14,000 people, all the media coverage, seeing all the celebrities walk by, seeing, you know, where you came from at NEI, a school you never heard about. So now Grand Canyon playing against Maryland, and, you know, we're in the same venue spot as Oregon, U of A, Colorado State, and all these big-time schools.

It was just such an awesome and amazing season looking back at it now.

[Meranden]

Yeah, that's crazy. Once again, I'm, like, shocked at everything that's been going on. And, you know, like with the celebrations and everything that's going on at GCU, it's amazing.

The support is there. Like, you know, that student section to the coaches, to everyone that's in the stands. You are a really big inspiration to the tribal communities, more specifically the youth.

Your basketball journey has come a really long way, and you're an inspiration to the community. What does it mean to you, and how has that overwhelming support made you feel?

[Jason Amador]

It means everything to me. Just seeing the youth and just seeing how much they support you, I just remember looking at them like I was in your shoes, and that was me growing up. I had dreams.

I wanted to play college basketball. I wanted to play professionally. So, for me, it just means the absolute world to me, you know, the amount of support, the amount of love, you know, that they've given me.

And this photo right here, they actually came out to one of my games, and they had the best time. The Havocs, the student section, were all dancing with them. They were jumping up and down.

They were singing songs, you know. They showed a lot of love. And after the game, they all came up to me and were giving me hugs and just telling me how proud of me they were, you know.

And it was just an awesome feeling, you know, just knowing that that was once me in their shoes, and I wanted to look up to someone, you know. But they've shown me the most amount of love and support, and I couldn't thank them enough for it.

[Meranden]

Yeah, that's amazing. And, you know, that representation is there. And personally, I don't see a lot of that indigenous representation, especially in the D1 community and, like, those kind of higher-ups.

Have you played against any other indigenous players or seen any indigenous representation, you know, with GCU or any college experience or games you've been in?

[Jason Amador]

Yeah. So at the NEI level, I played against SAGU, which is an American Indian college. So I played against them.

But at the D1 level, I can't say that I've played against anyone at the D1 level. But I know there's a lot of great athletes, a lot of great coaches, and, you know, at the Division I NCAA level, Houston just played Florida in a national championship. The head coach for Houston, he's Lumbee.

He's Native American, so seeing him and seeing how far he took his team to the national championship was amazing. Trayson Eagle Staff, he plays over at North Dakota, I believe. He's, like, going off and doing amazing things.

But, you know, there's a lot of great athletes, you know, Kyrie Irving, Lindy Waters, Marjan, there's a lot of great athletes out there. And it's just amazing to see.

[Meranden]

Yeah, that representation is very small, but those people who are there make a huge impact, like yourself. It's been a lot right here, like, rollercoaster, just hearing everything that you've done and where you've gotten to right now. Where do you see your basketball journey going from this point on?

[Jason Amador]

So I played my graduate year. My last year, I had a senior night. And for me, that was an awesome, awesome game.

They actually made a new rule where it's a non-NCAA rule where if you play at a non-NCAA institute, you get a year back. So my coach and coaching staff informed me that I have an extra year back. So hopefully I get to go back and play at GCU this upcoming season as we go into the Mountain West Conference.

But after, you know, I plan on getting into coaching. But also, too, like, I just love giving back to communities. I love doing the speaking engagements.

And it's just such an awesome feeling just to, you know, to speak to the youth and just to help motivate them and help push them in a way that they can achieve their dreams. So I know definitely I want to stay in the coaching world, whether that's actually in basketball or whether that's strength conditioning or if I want to play professionally after my collegiate season. Wow.

[Meranden]

Well, we wish you well on that journey. And, you know, just hearing from what you've been doing, we see a really bright future for you. And, you know, like you mentioned again, your tribal communities and how important that means to you.

You're part of the Colorado River Indian Tribes. And along with your tribal community and the 11 tribes here, the Grand Canyon means a lot to us. And you are, once again, it's in the title of your tribal community, the Colorado River.

What importance does the Colorado River have to yourself and your tribal community?

[Jason Amador]

Yeah, it means a lot to us. It means everything to us. You know, we believe the water is sacred.

It's a healing source for us. And, you know, the Grand Canyon, just looking at it now, like it's just something that you don't really think too much about. But when you come visit, it's like, why am I not here more often?

You know, it takes your breath away. It's a place of healing. And for me, you know, it means everything to me.

It takes my breath away, and I just love it.

[Meranden]

Awesome. So we have a little fun question that we like to ask for our podcast here. If you were to have any indigenous food right now, what would it be?

[Jason Amador]

That's a good question. So for me, like in the season, I can't really have anything like that. So now that I'm in the off season, I am actually craving a Navajo burger.

I just love it. I don't know what it is. It's the fried bread with the burger patty in between.

It's the best thing in the world. If you haven't tried it, I highly recommend for you guys to go try it. It's the most amazing thing.

[Meranden]

Is there a specific place you get yours?

[Jason Amador]

I just go to Pow Wows, and whenever I see it. The last one I had was over in Morongo. And it was from, I believe, somewhere up in Navajo Nation.

And it was the best thing ever. I had like three of them. It was amazing.

[Meranden]

Thank you so much for getting right here where we are and hearing so much about your journey. As we are wrapping up here, is there anything that you would like to leave the audience with?

[Jason Amador]

I would always say just dream big. And for me, what I always tell kids and what I always tell people is that every person in this room has their own journey in life. A lot of you guys are going to have different roads of high points of adversity, high points of success.

Each and every one of you guys is different. One of the biggest things that I could always say is just to never give up. Keep going.

And God will humble you before he elevates you. And I always go back to a quote, John 13, 7. You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.

And for me, I always take that a lot because I always go through stuff in my life where I'm like, why does this have to happen? Why do I have to go through this? And later on, I realize it had to happen for me in order for me to achieve the next part of my life.

So I would always say to never give up, keep going, and chase your dreams. Because for me, I was a kid in the stands from a small reservation. Now I'm a six-foot guard playing at Grand Canyon.

And at any Division I level, all the guards are 6'3", 6'4", 6'5". I have a teammate, his name is Dennis Evans, and he is 7'3". So for me, you can achieve anything you want.

Don't let anyone tell you anything different, whether you want to play in sports, academics, doctor, lawyer, whatever the case may be. You can achieve anything you want. But just know it comes with dedication and sacrifice and everything in between.

To get what you want, anything worthwhile in this life that you want is not going to be easy. And I won't be the last person to tell you that. Just know that there's going to be high points and low points in life.

And just to keep your head on straight and just to never give up.

[Meranden]

Good. A round of applause right now. Thank you guys so much.

Thank you, Jason. So we have a little section right here at the end if anyone has any questions.

[Audience Member]

Your story was very inspirational, amazing to hear. How do we have 100 more of you?

[Jason Amador]

Thank you for that. That's the million-dollar question. I just feel like in life you have to find something that motivates you and that makes you want to do what you want to do at the level you want to do it.

And for me, unfortunately, losing my brother early on, that kind of instilled a spark in for me. And that's something I use every single day when I'm on the court, off the court, trying to be a better son, be a better student, be a better teammate, be a better friend, be a better person. That's the question for everyone.

Just find ways to motivate you to help you get to where you want to be.

[Audience Member]

Go Lopes!

[Jason Amador]

Yeah, go Lopes, go Lopes, yep.

[Audience Member]

Who did you look up to?

[Jason Amador]

Who did I look up to? That is a great question. Growing up, I would look up to Damien.

He inspired me a lot. But now that I look back at it, I look up to my dad. He did so much for me, and he was the first person to believe in me and believe in my dreams.

He took me from my reservation, he took me to all these camps, the Pangos All-American Camp, he took me to the Michael Jordan Camp, he took me to all these tournaments in Phoenix, Vegas, Oklahoma, California. He gave up all of his time, all of his money, all of his energy, and best believe, he lets me know every single day that he could have been on a weekend, going on a vacation, buying a new truck or whatever. Just looking back at it, he was always in my corner.

Anytime I had a bad game, anytime I went through something in life, I knew I could always call him. He is my biggest fan. Just looking back on it, he's someone that I look up to every single day.

I hope I made him proud, and he's the best father I could have asked for.

[Audience Member]

I've heard you mention coaching before. I was wondering if you had any teams in mind. Would you go to Navajo Nation, Flagstaff?

Where would you want to coach?

[Jason Amador]

I definitely want to stay. I've done high school tournaments, I've done local rez tournaments. I did NABI, I did the national Native American tournaments, all of those.

But for me, just seeing the level of play at the Division I level, at the collegiate level, I love being around those type of people. They just have such a work ethic about them. My teammates, my coaching staff, they're always working, they're always recruiting, always trying to find ways to improve their game and their coaching game.

I definitely want to stay in that realm. And just kind of being an outlet, and just kind of having an outlet to speak, and to represent Native American culture at the highest level. I would definitely stay either at the collegiate level or professional.

Great question, though.

[Audience Member]

When were you at your lowest points, what made you keep going?

[Jason Amador]

What made me keep going, that is an absolutely amazing question. So in those moments of adversity, in those moments when you feel like nothing could come good out of the situation, just knowing that God has a plan for everyone, and for me that really kind of instilled in me that he's always going to be there for me when I fall, my high and low points in life, and just my family. But also, too, just my brother Damien.

I just knew I wasn't playing for myself no more, I was playing for him. And he gave me signs that he was watching over me, and his family too. I just knew my journey ahead was all for him.

So in those moments of adversity, just knowing that God was there, and I had people, my ancestors looking over me, watching over me, and I had a strong support system that really helped me get through all those low points in my life. But that was an amazing question. Thank you.

[Dan]

I'm getting my workout.

[Audience Member]

Did you have a pump-up song before every game? Like something to pump you up?

[Jason Amador]

That is a great question. So before every game, it's always like there's a stigma for athletes to have pump-up songs, rap, rock, whatever the case may be, to pump you up. For me, it was always just clearing my head, just turning off the lights, taking a pregame nap, and just kind of envisioning what was going to happen before the game.

That kind of really got me psyched. But I can't sit here and lie. There's a lot of great rappers that I listened to before the game.

This year, our team loved Boss Man D-Lo. That was like everyone loves Boss Man D-Lo. We play on the speaker and we walk out before the tunnel.

I would say it's definitely rap. Rap was like the one thing that really pumped me up before games.

[Audience Member]

What would you consider your highest moment, your highest point so far?

[Jason Amador]

My highest point, you know, there's a lot of stuff I could say. Going to March Madness, scoring my first point at the Division I level, going from NAI to D1. But I would probably say the highest point of my life was just being baptized and just dedicating and serving my life to Christ.

That was a moment in my life where I knew I could, out of all the things that I've achieved in life, that it wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for Him. Just being baptized and having my teammates out there, my brothers, my coach baptize me, it was such a surreal and amazing feeling for me. That's something I'll never forget.

So without God, for Him, I wouldn't be where I am today. So that was definitely probably the highest point in my life.

[Meranden]

Thank you, Dan, for running around.

[Jason Amador]

Thank you, Dan.

[Meranden]

We'll have one more round of applause.

Thank you so much, Jason, for being here today. Jason has something if you want to talk about it.

[Jason Amador]

Yeah, before we end off, I just want to say thank you to Grand Canyon National Park and the staff and Meranden for allowing me to come out here to speak to you guys. Thank you for you guys who stayed and asked questions. You guys are awesome, and I really appreciate you guys listening in on my journey.

But, yeah, I actually have autographs, cards. I would love it if you guys could take one. Just thank you to you guys for allowing me to come and speak to you guys here today.

Thank you.

[Ranger Jonah]

Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal, lived experiences of Tribal members and do not encompass the views of their Tribal Nation or that of the National Park.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/GRCA. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated Tribes of the Grand Canyon, these being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

This episode features Jason Amador, a member of the Colorado River Indian Tribes. ALCC Intern, Meranden, interviews Jason about his basketball career filled with highs and lows. Making his first appearance at March Madness was only one of the many accomplishments of his journey. With these experiences, he explains how he shares his story with native youth to provide them with motivation to go after their dreams, just like he did.

Episode 4

Kyle Awelagte Speaks

Transcript

Kyle Awelagte: I want to be able to teach the younger generation more about like the traditional and spiritual aspect of running and different art forms. I think that's my way of giving back to my community and keeping it thriving and living for as long as it goes

Lakin: Hello everyone, welcome back to season three of Grand Canyon Speaks.

My name is Lakin.

Meranden: And this is Meranden.

Lakin: In this episode, Ranger Grace interviewed Kyle Awelagte from Zuni Pueblo.

Meranden: Kyle, who runs cross-country at Fort Lewis College, has centered his focus on passing down traditional teachings revolving around athletics and art.

Lakin: From hosting a running event in his community to providing Zuni artists with business resources, Kyle looks forward to expanding on these endeavors in the future.

Meranden: Take a listen to this episode and we hope you enjoy.

Kyle Awelagte: Keshi, ko' don la:k'yadik'yana:we. Ho' Kyle Awelagte le'shinna. Hom annodi:we Dowa:kwe deyan K'yak'yali:kwe a:wan cha'le.

Kyle Awelagte: Good afternoon, my name is Kyle Awelagte. My clans are Corn and Child of the Eagle, and I am from the Zuni Pueblo. And this is my first time here, so it's exciting.

Kyle Awelagte: Thank you guys for all coming out and listening.

Ranger Grace: Yeah, and thank you so much, Kyle, for being here. It's really cool to have you out here.

Ranger Grace: And it's kind of hard to ignore the setting we're at. We are at the canyon, and the canyon's right behind us for those of you who are listening and not in the audience right now. And I do want to ask, just to get started, how does it feel to be at the canyon?

Kyle Awelagte: When I first got here, me and Shanoah were driving late at night, and we happened to see cloud storms like this, and a thunderstorm really hit. And at one point, I was kind of scared, but I knew that my ancestors were looking down on me. That was kind of like a signal that I'm back where we emerged from.

Kyle Awelagte: So I feel really connected to this place. It feels good to be here. Yeah, that's great.

Ranger Grace: That's a good example of how sneaky those thunderstorms can be when they show up, but a good sign at the same time. We like rain out here a lot. So part of the reason you're at the canyon is not just for the Grand Canyon Speaks.

Ranger Grace: Earlier today, you were demonstrating in the [Desert View] Watchtower as part of our cultural demonstration program, and there you were doing some, had some of your Zuni fetish carvings there. And to kind of let people who don't know, know about that, what is Zuni fetish carving? What were you doing at the time?

Kyle Awelagte: Zuni fetish carving is a form of art and also a way of expressing Zuni storytelling and tradition. It's typically used from natural stones and seashells and sometimes some elk antlers. So what Zuni fetish carving is, is an artist creates an animal or a spiritual, so what I like to make is called corn maidens.

Kyle Awelagte: So they have significance within our culture and the Zuni religion. A lot of it's used for some ceremonial practices and religious practices. And a lot of those pieces are for good omen.

Kyle Awelagte: A lot of them hold significant power in them. And a lot of people back home say that they're alive and which they are alive. They're living creatures, or not living creatures, but like a living spirit within that rock in that stone.

Kyle Awelagte: So that's why I do it just because of my culture and historical background on Zuni carving.

Ranger Grace: Yeah. And what got you into Zuni carving?

Like what was the moment you were like, I'm going to do this. And when did you start?

Kyle Awelagte: I remember when I was like 11 years old, my dad, he had his little motor set up inside the house and he was blasting music at one point while I was taking a nap.

And I went to go check in on him on what he was doing. And I saw that he had a piece of stone. It was angelite.

Kyle Awelagte: It was a really bright blue, kind of like a baby blue stone. And he was creating something out of it. And I asked like, “what are you doing?” And he said, “just watch this.” And he made a bear in like 20 minutes, 10 minutes. And I thought that was like the coolest thing ever.

Kyle Awelagte: So just from him explaining over the years, like what the purpose is and what like Zuni carving is, I saw that as like opportunity to learn and also opportunity to grow in my culture. So yeah, that's when I started really learning about Zuni fetish carving at age 11. And ever since then, he's brought me to trips like Santa Fe and different places. Just like, I just love the environment, like being able to be creative and have deeper meaning behind the art we make.

Ranger Grace: Yeah. And when you say trips like Santa Fe, what do you mean with that?

Kyle Awelagte: So usually in Santa Fe, New Mexico, they have like a big open like Indian market and a bunch of shops over there that sell like a bunch of Native American, different like jewelry, fetishes, just different stuff. And just being surrounded in that environment and looking what a lot of artists produce is something to be proud of. Just having that symbolism and different craftsmanship in like a big city is pretty cool to see.

Ranger Grace: Yeah, it sounds like a really inspiring environment to be in, especially with those crafts. And speaking of environment, I feel like you really set the scene with the story of your dad kind of with the loud music waking you up. And you mentioned like having the tools for fetish carving.

Ranger Grace: What is that process like? What goes into making a fetish?

Kyle Awelagte: So they tell you to have good thoughts and good spirit when you're doing fetish carving, because that's what you ultimately want to put into the rock. Just good, good spirit into it. So you start off by getting your raw materials, like your rock you find. So it can be like turquoise, serpentine, marble, just whatever you have.

Kyle Awelagte: And with that, we have a motor set up. So it's like, imagine like a motor that's in the middle, and that's the battery. And on the sides, there's a grinding stone.

And with that grinding stone, what I do is I like to look at the rock and visualize what I want. Because if you force it, it's not going to want to go that way. You kind of just have to work with the rock and like the shape and what you see in it.

Kyle Awelagte: So that's my second process. And I like to turn on music to like, make my spirit more happy. So I'll turn on like reggae or whatever I liked on the radio.

And yeah, I'll just get like getting like good vibes going. And having like the people around me that I love, just watching me create something. But other than that, you create the stone using the grinding wheel.

Kyle Awelagte: And my dad taught me to always like round it first and see what it comes out to. And a lot of the times it usually comes out to eagles. So I think eagles really speak out to me, and even bears. And with that, you kind of, you make the face for it. And you make the eyes because at the end of the product, it's living. So you want it to see.

Kyle Awelagte: And you create these bundles. So I use like wax to wrap it around and put little pieces of turquoise or coral. It's a offering to it. Or you can either sprinkle cornmeal on it, just to give appreciation for what you created. Yeah, so it's really just working with the stone and using your grinding wheel to create what you want, or what it wants to become. That's why I always say because you can't force it.

Kyle Awelagte: It's kind of a simple but kind of like a kind of joyful experience with it. It's also very dangerous too. Because you can like, sometimes I clip my finger with the grinding stone. And that's not too fun. But the music part is fun. And having my family and my dad teach me, that's the fun part. Yeah.

Ranger Grace: Yeah, it feels better to focus on the fun than the dangerous part.

Kyle Awelagte: Yeah.

Ranger Grace: And you've been doing that for a long time then. Because you said you started at 11. You're 21. So about 10 years.

Kyle Awelagte: Yeah.

Ranger Grace: Which is a long time to be doing a craft like that. So how have you seen that process change over time?

Kyle Awelagte: When I was 11, it took me like, probably like two weeks to like a month to even like, create something. Just because I didn't know what I was doing and how to work like the wheel and motor.

Kyle Awelagte: But ever since like, just watching my dad and him telling me stories about like, you can't force what you want to make. Because that's what I would do at a young age, I would try to force it and the rock would just crumble and not go the way I want it and make me frustrated and not want to do it. But he just told me to have that patience and time and always come in with good spirits and listen to what the rock wants to have you make out of it.

Kyle Awelagte: So just using those tellings from my father. So it really helped me develop as an artist and just a person in general, just life lessons and how I go about my heart and yeah, just my approach on it. So over the years, I've gotten better.

Kyle Awelagte: I've never had like opportunities like this where I've been able to demonstrate to people like around the world or anything. I've always just did it just out of like habit, because it was always fun to me, just growing up, not really having anything to do besides sports. So when I have like, any like something on my mind, and I just want to take it off my mind, I just like to turn on the music and just go to work on my craft.

Kyle Awelagte: So yeah, so over the years, it's really developed. Now I can like carve like with it like 30 minutes to an hour, depending on the stone. So I've gotten really better.

Ranger Grace: Yeah, yeah, it's cool to be able to kind of give yourself to the process.

Kyle Awelagte: Yeah.

Ranger Grace: And really bring that energy to it and the intention. You mentioned there, sports as well. So not only do you do this craft and this art, but you're in sports as well. What sports do you do?

Kyle Awelagte: Yeah, so ever since I was in elementary school, I've ran for the public school district for Zuni. And I started off when I was nine years old, is when I really started running.

Kyle Awelagte: I started, yeah, I started to just run out of like, because my mom told me to, to get out of the house and do something. So I just started running. I thought I was going to be a basketball player. I mean, I was a basketball player, but I'm not, I'm not good. And then my direction was mainly towards running just because over the years I've learned that Zunis and other Native American tribes are really good in running. And they've always used that way, even back then, to get to places.

Kyle Awelagte: They would travel long distances on their feet or even have like moccasins if they're lucky to run with. But I think just having that background in running is what really inspired me to go further and beyond than what I thought I could be capable of. So running's my, running's my thing.

Ranger Grace: Yeah, and with running, you kind of lean towards this a little bit with what you just said. Like fetish carving, that also has really big cultural significance. So what is the cultural significance in the historical context of running for Zuni?

Kyle Awelagte: So running is like just a way of life. I say it's a way of life of being able to, well, this is my perspective on running, being able to spiritually connect and mentally being able to get through things. So when I'm running, I usually pray in the morning to ask Sun Father for strength and guidance during like my runs.

Kyle Awelagte: And yeah, so I would say that's like a cultural teaching I've put into running. So it's just, it's more than, I feel it's more than running, like just, you know, getting hyped for a race and being like, let's go, let's go run, like in that competitive era. But I see it more as like a way of healing, like being able to know I work for something and work for a group of people that are known, like being able to just to represent something bigger than myself through running.

Kyle Awelagte: So like having that, having that background is something special and amazing. So yeah.

Ranger Grace: Yeah, I've heard other interviewees use the phrase running with purpose.

Kyle Awelagte: Yeah.

Ranger Grace: That same thing of like having it be meaningful.

Ranger Grace: And for you both running and the art you do, you started doing very young. And you've mentioned to me your kind of involvement and passion for Indigenous youth getting involved in cultural tradition. So what's the importance of that involvement for youth and cultural tradition?

Kyle Awelagte: Just being able to continue the tradition through the younger generation, I think is important because grandparents and those with knowledge tend to pass down those teachings to younger people. And just having that ability to do that is what keeps your people alive and your way of living, I would say. Yeah, just that's, that's really important because in ancient times, that's all anyone had.

Kyle Awelagte: We didn't have like a phone or text messages or like files or like, you know, iPads to like record anything. It was just orally taught, verbally or shown, like demonstrated towards the younger audience. So I really think it's important that our youth get involved with their ways of living or their traditional practices.

Kyle Awelagte: Because when I was little, my mom and like my grandparents and just community members would just tell me these random stories and like what to do and what not to do. And I think that's the most important thing that someone can do to the younger generation. So with that, I want to be able to teach the younger generation more about like the traditional and spiritual aspect of running and different art forms.

Kyle Awelagte: I think that's my way of like giving back to my community and keeping it thriving and living for as long as it goes. Yeah.

Ranger Grace: Yeah. And on that note, like with all you've already been doing and with starting both your art and your running so young, you kind of already have implied in a way you are, but like, do you see yourself as a role model for Indigenous youth?

Kyle Awelagte: Sometimes, sometimes I can be like, not really like a role model. I mean, I'm still like a, I'm like a young adult still living in this world and it's kind of hard to, but I try to be, when I go back home and the things I do, I'm careful with how I represent myself because I was, I was also that like little, little kid, like check, like looking at like the stars of like running and like the hardest, like I want to be like them.

Kyle Awelagte: So sometimes I feel like a role model and sometimes I don't, but a lot of times I, I look back at my community and I think I've become a role model, a pretty good role model for the youth. Yeah.

Ranger Grace: You make a good point. You're still young, but yeah, and you can still be a role model in that way. And were there people that were kind of role models for you to get involved with the things you're involved in?

Kyle Awelagte: Yeah. So a lot of my role models came with like in my community. And then of course for like my family members and out of my family, like some of my middle school coaches, their last names are Chopito, like Albert Chopito and them. They're my middle school coaches and my elementary coaches.

Kyle Awelagte: And they're really good at marathons and long distances. So I've always looked up to them and even people outside my community that also work within my community, like Eisinga and Coach Carroll and coaches I've had from high school all the way to college, like the Kyle Masterson, Laura Masterson, Coach Graham, Don Graham at Fort Lewis, which I go to now. Yeah.

Kyle Awelagte: Just having those different role models, something special to have, just having them being able to have them talk to, have gained their knowledge and being able to just have them work with me and what my purpose is as a runner and how I want to represent myself and my people. So having those role models makes everything 10 times easier.

Ranger Grace: Yeah. Adds to the community.

Kyle Awelagte: Yeah.

Ranger Grace: It sounds like school was important for you in that way of like having those opportunities.

Ranger Grace: What are the ways you connect with running outside of school?

Kyle Awelagte: So a lot of my running I like to do back home. I love running back home just because it's really like flat and that's really beneficial to runners just because of the soft sand and the properties of it. And like we can literally like run like two miles and you'll be like up a mountain and you can work hard for that.

Kyle Awelagte: And I respect both aspects because I look towards one for like a easy, relaxed day. And I look towards one to, for like knowing I can work hard and push myself and still having that view of like what I'm trying to represent, having the view of like Zuni and the Pueblo and the mountains, like just reminding myself of where I come from, having that ability to overcome challenges like within my running and having like those easy days, just running around in the village, like just seeing everyone walking and seeing the community members, like going, doing their jobs, having people sell outside the tribal building, their arts. It's just the coolest thing ever.

Kyle Awelagte: And being able to go up to the mountains and just look down, knowing that maybe I can be something big and represent them, knowing that I came from this small little Pueblo. Yeah.

Ranger Grace: Yeah. Representation feels really important. And with those like challenges in running, it sounds like running is ever evolving. And how have you seen that relationship change over time?

Kyle Awelagte: When I was younger, I really didn't know too much about like, like my culture and everything. And once I started like running and like I would always hear these stories of runners just within the community. I know we have like this, we used to have a thing happen in the, in our middle village where runners would, it's called a stick run. So runners would put their valuables in and race against other runners and run around the village.

Kyle Awelagte: And whoever was like the fastest basically collected everything. So that having that history and my dad telling me that our last name was a part of that and we were pretty fast as those runners. So having that knowledge and having, knowing that my people can do longer distances is, makes everything pretty much easier.

Kyle Awelagte: And not having like the knowledge of that before I started to develop my spirituality and my culture was hard at first because I didn't know who to like turn to. So once I started learning those different practices and languages to speak to our Gods and stuff, it life, it became life and running became so much easier in a way because I felt like my prayers were answered and they were hearing me up above. So being able to learn over the years and having that involved with my running and just school in general, it's a, it's a good trait to have and a good feeling that I'm able to continue that even as of right now.

Kyle Awelagte: I still do it to this day. Yeah.

Ranger Grace: That is really cool to hear just the way it has changed over time and the importance that you still hold and the involvement you still have with it.

And if you're willing, we talked earlier that you're actually hosting a running event for Zuni as well, which is a really cool way that you're developing that relationship continuously. If you want to speak to that a little bit. Kyle Awelagte: Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. So I created this run, it's called Corn Maiden Classic. It's in the heart, well not heart in the Zuni, but it's at our mountain called Dowa Yalanne.

Kyle Awelagte: So kind of like the history behind it or the stories told about it is our people use that mountain to get away from a major flood that was happening. And there was this sea serpent called the Kolo:wisi that was underneath swimming through. And the only way that that flood could stop was these two individuals, a boy and a girl were brave enough to put on all their traditional regalia and float all the way to the bottom and do a prayer for the flood to go away.

Kyle Awelagte: And on the mountain, there's these two stones that stick up. So that's a representation of those two who were able to do that. And I think that's so cool because it takes a lot of courage and sacrifice to do those things.

And a lot of people have their own challenges and they sacrifice a lot in their daily lives. So being able to kind of tell those stories about Dowa Yalanne and where I come from and having running incorporated, I think is so cool. It'll consist of a kid's fruit scrabble.

Kyle Awelagte: So that's basically line up some kids and they'll run like a couple meters and they'll be like little baskets of like fruit they can collect and just giving back to the little kids in a way I can. And having people gain health and fitness and just a way of getting out. Just promoting health in general is what I want to do and go further beyond with this event because this is just the beginning stages of some pretty big stuff I want to do later in the future.

Kyle Awelagte: Yeah, so with this I want to start and then create a competitive, kind of like a pro team for Zuni. And then build off of that and create a little center where these different types of athletes in any sport can have access to what a lot of these people have that we don't have. So being able just to raise funds and having accessibility to these different stuff to help young athletes and student-athletes flourish in this new world because technology's growing and growing and helping people adapt.

Kyle Awelagte: And having our cultural ways and having that new technology I think is gonna really be beneficial to our people, yeah. Ranger Grace: And it's an important kind of future and passion to have. .

And how are you like pursuing that? Kyle Awelagte: So I'm pursuing that in like different ways. Like just really starting to put myself out there because I was always like a shy person, never including myself into events or anything.

So I'm going to Fort Lewis College as of right now for a business administration, so bachelor's degree. And I want to use that business degree to help expand my passion running in art. So I want to help artists turn their art and their image into something much bigger than what they could imagine.

Kyle Awelagte: And having these different resources like in the village and not having to go seek out other resources. So just making that accessible at home while having that authentic credibility towards the artists themselves. Ranger Grace: Yeah, I think you're so well spoken about and it's really neat to hear kind of how much thought you've put into it and all these different elements at play.

And with that kind of train of thought, I think that's a good time to kind of take a break from these bigger questions we're talking about. And with this podcast, we always do kind of a lighter question. We call it our fun question that we ask.

Ranger Grace: So that question is, what is your favorite food? Kyle Awelagte: Oh, okay. I like cherry wood smoked barbecue ribs.

That's what I like with potato salad and roasted corn and green chili and tortillas. That's like my favorite thing ever. But I also like just chicken alfredo.

So I like everything honestly. I like desserts. I ain't even gonna lie.

Kyle Awelagte: I ate a cake. Ranger Grace: I mean, as a runner, yeah, it's pretty important to you. Kyle Awelagte: Yeah, they say that, but I just be eating anything honestly.

Ranger Grace: Well, they both sound like good meals. On that note, like as a runner, we had another runner on the podcast and I had been curious with her of like, running can be really demanding and can be pretty hard on the body. So like, do you do to take care of yourself as a runner?

Kyle Awelagte: Physically, I do what any other runner does is stretch because you really need to like let your, you need to really rest your body and just let your blood flow. So that being like sleeping more than eight hours, taking electrolytes, being able to stretch, roll out, going to trainers, have them work with you. But on the mental side, I like to pray before my runs and after and just thank like my ancestors and my gods for the gifts they give me and the new day that and just being thankful that I'm able to run because I know there's not a lot of people who can do the things I do.

Kyle Awelagte: And I'm really appreciative of what's been given to me. And my hard work that I've built over the years and just being able to really enjoy it and having just using prayer as a way to mentally take care of myself and having my family too, is I say a good recovery method to just having their good energy. So in physical and mental and spiritual, it's how I take care of myself.

Ranger Grace: Yeah, you earlier, this reminded me you mentioned how with your fetish carving, it can kind of be a space you go to, to kind of get away from other things. Does running feel like that too, just from the process you just talked about of how you? Kyle Awelagte: Yeah, so running, and I say any other sports you have so much passion in can be so demanding.

And that can like really mess like with your mental and even your physical. So being able to have like different outlets and the things you love to do, like just say, like spending time or creating art, listening to music, taking walks or enjoying nature is something that every person should do just for their well-being. And having that takes the workload off of the thing you may find hard, like your passion, because our passions are, they're going to be hard at points, and sometimes you're going to enjoy them.

Kyle Awelagte: But having those different outlets is what makes you miss it again, and being able to take it on for another day. Ranger Grace: Would you say, because it sounds like, you know, you've mentioned challenges with running, and I suppose you could find challenges in carving as well, like clipping a finger. So you touched on that a little bit, but how do you, what advice would you give to overcome challenges?

Kyle Awelagte: I say just take it day by day and have, have faith in yourself that you'll be able to overcome those challenges, and that you have people or friends or family that you can depend on to take that workload off of your, weight off your shoulders, and just go and, just go into the next day knowing that it's a new opportunity for growth, rather than dwelling on it for like a whole week or a whole month. Just take that appreciation that, yeah, okay, I failed.

Kyle Awelagte: Let's try again tomorrow and see if I can do something better and overcome that challenge. And it's, it's good to fail because you learn from those moments, and you adapt because that's who we are as a people. You, you adapt to overcome challenges naturally, and so just take it day by day.

Kyle Awelagte: Don't stress about long-term, just put yourself in the now and live in the moment.

Ranger Grace: Yeah, pushing forward.

Kyle Awelagte: Yeah.

Ranger Grace: Community. You mentioned like the importance of failing. We have a big phrase with our staff of failing forward and how that can be really important to just keep moving past things and learning from them.

Ranger Grace: And as the sun is starting to set, before we open up to audience questions, is there anything else that you really want to leave the audience with? Like anything important you want them to know? Just be thankful that you're here on this earth today experiencing the things you are.

Kyle Awelagte: Enjoy nature, enjoy what you can see, enjoy what you can hear, enjoy what you can feel, enjoy what you can eat, because I love eating. And just live in the present of today and know that everything happens for a reason.

Kyle Awelagte: So, keep being creative, keep being cool, keep being friendly, keep being loving, and yeah, that's what I'm going to leave you guys with.

Ranger Grace: I think those are good words to leave people with. So now I kind of turn to you guys in the audience. Is there anything you'd like to ask Kyle about? Any questions?

Audience Member: Hi, I'd like to know what type of footwear you prefer to run in?

Kyle Awelagte: Okay, so, um, I like to be comfortable in my runs, and I love New Balance. I think New Balance has, like, really squishy foam in it, and I think that, like, takes the ease off of, like, knee pain and, like, your bones and your muscles.

Kyle Awelagte: So having that New Balance shoe, I think, is, like, the best thing ever. But race-wise, I like to race in Nike. I'm a Nike guy.

Audience Member: What's your favorite type of stone to carve on?

Kyle Awelagte: Oh, okay, um, I love sandstone, just, um, because it's really, really soft, and that's good, but what makes it hard is you have to be, like, really delicate with it, or you'll shave everything off. And the only reason I love it is because when you get it wet, it smells like it rained outside, so you can smell, like, that earthy, like, um, smell. So that's the, that's my favorite stone, sandstone.

Audience Member: Do you plan on running down the canyon or from rim to rim one day?

Kyle Awelagte: Rim to rim one day, that's, how long is that, like, 24 miles? Almost a marathon. Is that a marathon? I plan on doing it. I'm, I'm, like, I've run in the mountains, like, back home, so I'm slowly training for it, but it's going to happen. It's going to happen one day, and we'll record it.

Audience Member: How do you run on sand?

Kyle Awelagte: How do I run on sand? So what I like to do is, what my coach taught me was, um, you want to take, like, baby steps and pump your arms, and what I like to do in that moment when, you know, you're struggling and you feel like, oh my god, this sand really is a killer, I, I like to focus on my breathing and take two deep breaths and just, like, remind myself that, um, I'm stronger than, um, this sand and I'm capable of doing, doing it. So it's a physical and mental thing.

Kyle Awelagte: So physically, I like to go on my toes and lean forward and use my arms, but use baby steps, and mentally, I like to tell myself, um, that I'm capable of doing this, even though it's hard. Always just have a good mindset and you'll get through things, yeah.

Audience Member: Um, throughout your running career, what is one of your most memorable races?

Kyle Awelagte: Okay, I think the most memorable race was, it was, I think it always had to be the Zuni invite, um, where I'm doing my run at, so Dowa Yalanne. I think just having, like, the community there, like, everyone comes out for that, and I think that's, like, the coolest thing ever, because you see, like, Zuni, Zuni runners that haven't ran or anything, you know, you don't get to really see them, and the community finally, like, come out to, like, see you run, and the other runners.

Kyle Awelagte: Like, other Native American runners just run and run up our, run their sacred mountain, so I think just that, having, like, the community and your loved ones and even having, like, your ancestors there watching down on you, um, I think that has to be, like, the most memorable one that I've enjoyed so far, yeah.

Ranger Grace: Alright, well, Kyle, thank you so much for coming out here and being a part of the podcast.

Kyle Awelagte: Thank you. I want to thank everyone for just sitting patiently and listening. Um, safe travels back to wherever you come from, and, uh, blessings towards you guys, so thank you guys.

Kyle Awelagte: Elahkwa.

Ranger Jonah: Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music.

Ranger Jonah: This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park. To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon, these being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

In this episode, Ranger Grace interviewed Kyle Awelagte to discuss his cross country and track experience as a collegiate athlete. As Kyle is from the Zuni Pueblo, he describes the cultural significance of running and shares that his family has a multi-generational history of running in Zuni. Not only is he an athlete, but he is an artist: Kyle shares his work as a fetish carver and the spiritual connections that revolve around this ancestral form of creativity. Tune in to this episode and enjoy!

Episode 5

Wendi Lewis Speaks

Transcript

[Wendi Lewis]

The whole point of me starting the apparel company was that I wanted to do things for the community. I wanted to help, you know, people, like she said, kids need to go somewhere to run. I'll try to fundraise for them through the apparel, hosting races, with the apparel being, you know, the prizes that people tend to really like.

And I finally was able to establish my own nonprofit based on the experiences that, you know, I was given when I was little.

[Lakin]

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

[Meranden]

And this is Meranden.

[Lakin]

We really appreciate you all for tuning in to this podcast, especially this season.

[Meranden]

Today's episode is about Wendy Lewis. She is Hopi and from the village of Kikotsmovi, who is the boys cross-country and track coach at Tuba City High School.

[Lakin]

She talks about her business and how she uses it to help fundraise for her runners, how time culture into running is part of her coaching philosophy, and tells us about what you may experience if you ever run a race at one of the Hopi villages.

[Meranden]

It was a pleasure to speak with Wendi this past summer, and I'm excited for all of you to hear her story.

[Lakin]

Here is Wendi Lewis.

[Wendi Lewis]

Good evening, everybody. My name is Wendi Lewis, and I am from the village of Kikotsmovi. I'm Hopi.

I'm Tawawungwa. My Hopi name is Kuwanhaysi That was given to me by the Coyote Clan.

I'm very honored to be here, so.

[Meranden]

Awesome.

[Wendi Lewis]

Yeah. Thank you for inviting me.

[Meranden]

Of course. And in similarity, I am also Hopi as well. My clans are Piikyaswungwa and Tsuwungwa.

Those are my Hopi clan, so both corn and snake. And then my Hopi name is Siikyatsumana, which means yellow snake girl. So those are some of our relations here with our tribes, and I'm very welcome to be joined here with Wendi because she's actually someone that a lot of people in our community look up to.

But first of all, have you been to the Grand Canyon before?

[Wendi Lewis]

I've actually lived in the Grand Canyon for a brief period of time. I went to school here for part of my fourth grade year. Yeah, so my family has all of my grandma and grandpa raised their kids here.

So I still have family that live here in the village.

[Meranden]

Nice. Yeah, and then you reside in Tuba City, which is also where I'm from. But you are a coach at Tuba City High School, and I just wanted to ask, how did you start your running journey?

[Wendi Lewis]

I've been running for as long as I can remember. I feel like my running journey started when I got entered into a race and won it when I was like six years old. My mom married a coach for the Hopi High girls cross country team, and I had no choice.

I just ran with them all the time, and that's been my life. That's how it started. And then you ran in school throughout high school?

[Meranden]

How far did you run?

[Wendi Lewis]

I ran all the way through junior college, Paradise Valley Community College.

[Meranden]

I ran two years there. Nice, and then that running seemed to have stuck with you to where you are now a coach. But what made you decide to coach high school cross country and track?

[Wendi Lewis]

I had a rocky journey trying to attain my bachelor's degree. In between all of that, I did coach at Hopi High School. I was an assistant coach for the junior high track team, high school girls cross country team, the team I used to run for, and then took a very long break.

About four years ago, I started volunteering at Tuba City High School. The last couple of years, or I want to say last year, I finally got hired as the head coach for the for the boys program, and I just recently got approved to be their coach again this fall.

[Meranden]

Nice, and I know through this school, it's on the reservation, and you've been able to coach a lot of indigenous students. Through running, has it helped connect your runners to their culture?

[Wendi Lewis]

Yes, that's a big part of my coaching philosophy because that's how I was coached. And I just had this conversation. I was just volunteer coaching at a Hopi running camp out home, and you know, talking to them about how I was coached by my stepfather.

I didn't realize until way later how important it was, the connection between life, between our culture as Hopi people, and the underlying reward of being a good runner. Like, you know, the emphasis was not on winning trophies. It was always about being respectful of tying in our culture into what we did at practice, and that's what I try to do now.

As a head coach, it's a little bit tricky because I was raised traditionally at home, and coming into this this new community where there's a village right across the street from Tuba City, or two villages I should say, and so we have a mix of Hopi and Navajo, and it's, you know, I have to pay attention. You also have people who go to church, you know. Out home on Hopi, it was just Hopi, and it was easy, you know, but now it's about like finding a balance and trying to learn about their culture too, and trying to, you know, make those connections between how I coach the Hopi kids.

I mean, and I try not to single them out, but I try to make that connection with all of them. It's a little tricky, but I'm trying.

[Meranden]

Yeah, and I know you said there's emphasis on the culture, and you were able to do that with the kids in Hopi. What is the importance of running to Hopi?

[Wendi Lewis]

The importance of running for Hopi is just getting our kids, our youth, our people to understand that we don't run for ourselves. We run for life. We run for rain.

It's an interesting cycle of, you know, land farmers, and we rely on the rain to grow our corn. Our corn is very important for us in ceremony. Like all of the things we do, we rely on those things, and then just the respect for life, all living things.

These are all like key things that we try to emphasize to our people on, you know, when we go out to run. It's a form of prayer. It's not physical activity, and so I think that's what makes it so important and special to us.

There's so much more that we want to get out of it, and we recognize that just in general, and Hopi, I mean, you could be running down, just going for a run, and you know, we thank, we always thank. You ever run on Hopi, they'll thank you in our language, because we recognize that as prayer. So, Askwali is the version for a female, and Kwa’kwa is the version for a male.

Anytime, you could, you don't even have to be racing. They'll see you, and somebody will yell that out to you, because that is what we believe running is about.

[Meranden]

Yeah, we see that really often when we have like any kind of race that's happening back home in Tuba, or pretty much, yeah, also there's another race that happens out more in the Hopi villages, whether it's the Lewis Tewanima race, there's people scattered all over thanking you for running. So, like she mentioned, it's prayer, and it's, we tried to continue explaining the importance of running, and what it means to us, and I know that you also are a business owner, and it does incorporate a lot of the importance of running, and what running means to us. Would you be able to explain a little bit more of what your business entails?

[Wendi Lewis]

Yeah, so I started a long time ago, and I have to give credit to, you know, someone who I know, I think I have to mention a little bit later, but I grew up running with her from high school on, and one of the comments one time was that, you know, I wish, you know, because we're so prideful in our running, and what we run for, and when we make it to another level of running, it was like, I wish we had something that we could, you know, that would show that we're Hopi, if we're running in California, or in the Boston Marathon, or, you know, anything like that, and it was, it was just something that stuck in my head, and then one year, my daughter was running high school, Hopi High, and they wanted me to design a shirt for them, so that they could wear it at state, and I really wanted that shirt to be something that, if any Hopi could see that shirt, they would know without words that it was Hopi, so, and I wanted to symbolize the strength of females, because females have this really strong role in our culture, especially our youth, you know, we consider them at their purest, in their youth ages, so I wanted to incorporate all of that. I came up with a shirt with some Hopi girls, all in the position of, like, holding hands, their eyes closed, and that was just based on my upbringing from my coach. Prayer was a big part of, in, in running, and so it's supposed to, like, symbolize that she's in prayer, and there's seven of them all in a circle, because seven compete in a race at the state meet, and so I just kind of put them all in the circle, and that's kind of what started it, and you guys can pass that around, that's her right there, just call her the mana, and so that kind of started everything, and from then, I just kept trying to figure out ways to make different types of designs that reflected our culture, trying to explain, you know, the importance, there's the shirt there that, you know, talks about prayer, or running is prayer, and so it's in the formation of a rain cloud using feet and heart, because there's a word of encouragement that you'll also hear people yell out to you, it's, you know, Nahongvita, it's a, it's a word of self-encouragement and strength, and so the heart, it talks about, you know, digging deep with your heart, and so that's why I wanted to incorporate feet and heart in that design, as a symbol of prayer that we hope would bring the rain, so that's my company now, it turned, I try really hard to keep it going, I do also have a little boy, so I wanted the female to represent Hopi, certain aspects of Hopi female strength, and it took me a few years to do a boy, to figure out how I wanted to represent the boy, and like I said, you know, farming is so important to us, it is our culture, and I wanted the boy to reflect that, I hear, listen to stories about the history of our, the strength of our men, back when they used to run to the fields instead of drive their trucks, back when they ran from village to village, but ultimately highlighting the importance of farming, so the little boy there is, you can see him, he is represented carrying a soya, which is a planting stick, and then in his hand is posume, it's a bag of seeds that is used for planting, so I shared this with my boys cross-country team this past year, and I explained to them the importance of, you know, even the Navajo, my Navajo boys, I don't think I have, I think I just have Hopi and Navajo boys running for me, but, you know, explaining the importance of the strength of what you believe in, and the things that you're taught and raised, giving them that to use as a reminder for what they're running for, more than just time and medals, yeah, but that's the business, I have little accessories and stuff that, I have a, I opened up a shop in Tuba City across, at the Tuuvi Travel Center, and when I'm able to open it, it's open, but yeah, so that's my business in a nutshell.

[Meranden]

Yeah, and I noticed that you have a couple different things in there, you sell shirts, leggings, what are some other things that you sell?

[Wendi Lewis]

Stickers, everybody loves stickers, I have running tops, some lightweight jackets, pullovers, girl pullovers, I do have running shorts that just have the design, whether it's the logo, or if it's a little boy, with the word run on it. A funny story, I forgot my running shoes a few years ago when I was running, registered to run a 10k in Sedona, and I had to run in my Crocs that I was wearing, and it was not an easy course either, it was very technical, but I just decided to make Croc charms, you know, if I, in case I ever have to run in my Crocs again, I will represent my apparel through, with the Croc charm, so I have those two, just keychains, little accessories, and things like that, yeah.

[Meranden]

I actually do own one of your leggings, because you do a lot of fundraisers for the students too, like that you're athletes, and I ran one, I wasn't supposed to, I wasn't going to, and then my mom's like, you should just go run, it was the morning of, and it's, my sister, I was supporting my sister, and then my mom's like, you should just go run, so I was like, okay, I'll pay the, I paid the fee, and then I was like, I don't have any shoes, and then my mom's like, I looked at my mom and she had tennis shoes, I was like, let me use your shoes, so I used her shoes and I ran, and then I did pretty good to where I got one of the prizes, which was one of her leggings, so yeah, I have something that's hers, but yeah, there's a lot of inspiration behind your business, and the clothing that you make, and running all together, who are some runners, or people that you look up to?

[Wendi Lewis]

Well, like I said, I, you know, my, my friend, her name is Caroline Sekaquaptewa, she's been running for, I mean, like, I met her in junior high, because, like I said, my stepdad dragged me to all his practices, and she, she had graduated already, but she started helping him, and I really connected with her at that young age, and she would take me everywhere to run with her. She runs to this day, I think she was, this past year was her 14th consecutive qualification for Boston. She's done three Ironman triathlons, and she's just, like, you know, she's just such a hard worker, so she's a big inspiration to everything I do, like, everything I want to make, I think of her, like, will she wear this, you know, would she wear this when she's running?

Yeah, I have to say, like, I have to give her credit as, you know, my biggest inspiration for the apparel line, and things that I come out with. I run ideas by her. I have brothers who are artists.

I really value their artistic skills, so I, you know, reach out to them, and then my coaches, you know, my coaches that have supported me for as long as I can remember. Every time I do anything associated with running, I think of them, and hope that I'm making them proud.

[Meranden]

It's good that you have those people that you look up to, and then also, like you mentioned, she's helping you figure out items that you want to have included in your business, which is really nice. Much like how running is very important to Hopi, what importance does the Grand Canyon have to Hopi?

[Wendi Lewis]

The Grand Canyon is, it's very important to us. For me and, I mean, for Hopi, of course, but there was a lot of Hopis that grew up here, here in the village. I remember looking at my mom's yearbooks, and I see all these Hopi last names in there.

I don't know what made them, you know, settle in this area, but I feel like, you know, they kind of were taking care of the area, and I, my grandpa was kind of like my father figure, and he raised me, but, you know, I feel like when I come here, I'm kind of connected with them, like all of my family that all lived here, but I don't feel like I'm the greatest expert in, you know, I don't know too much details about the very, very, I know basics, but I just don't feel comfortable talking about it, because I'm not, you know, well-versed in it, or I guess there's also, like, a part of me that doesn't want to, you know, really ask those questions.

There's images sometimes that are shared from sacred points in the village that, you know, it scares me. I don't, I don't like to look at them. I don't feel like we should be looking at them, so it's, that's how, that's how sacred this, this place is to us.

[Meranden]

Yeah, there's a lot of importance, like, like I mentioned, there's eleven tribes here that call the Grand Canyon home, and Hopi is one of them, and as you can tell, there's a lot of importance to us, so make sure, like, we always mention to people to take care of it like it's your own home, and yeah. But usually, in this interview, we like to ask a fun question, and the fun question is, if you could have any indigenous food right now, what would it be? That's a tough question.

Do people answer their own foods? No, well, they answer, a lot of them, like, choose food from the flea market, so.

[Wendi Lewis]

Okay, I wasn't sure if that was indigenous, but the first thing that came to my head was a mutton sandwich.

[Meranden]

It's either that one, it's almost always mutton, or like steamed corn stew, so that's like the same thing. Okay, yeah, I love mutton sandwiches. Yeah, that's so good.

Can you explain what mutton is? Some people don't know what it is.

[Wendi Lewis]

Okay, mutton is sheep, grilled sheep, right? They just fillet it, I guess, and then put it on a frybread, preferably for me. They usually add corn, potato, and green chili.

I have my own way of, like, so they put, like, a halved potato in there, which does not make sense to me, so every time I get my sandwich, I'm, like, crumbling the potato, so, like, it's evenly distributed through my sandwich, and yeah, so, but I really like that, and I add cheese, which people think is weird, but it's just me, yeah, and onions. If they don't put onions in it, I put onions in it.

[Meranden]

Interesting.

[Wendi Lewis]

Yeah, I never had it like that.

[Meranden]

I just eat it as it is. Okay, cool. So, yeah, as we are getting to the end of this interview, which we will open up questions to the audience if anyone has any, I just want to pose one last question.

Is there anything that you would like to leave the audience with?

[Wendi Lewis]

Just, you know, to emphasize how important Hopi running is to us as people, and, you know, we just had this conversation at the running camp that a local wellness center hosted for our kids, and, you know, there are certain things that we're open to sharing, but there are certain things that, you know, we're still protective of, but, you know, always welcoming you to come and experience a run out there on Hopi.

There's a lot of local organizations that host runs. I've actually evolved, so a funny story about the, it's not a funny story, but the whole point of me starting the apparel company was that I wanted to do things for the community. I wanted to help, you know, people, like she said, kids need to go somewhere to run.

I'll try to fundraise for them through the apparel, hosting races, with the apparel being, you know, the prizes that people tend to really like, and I finally was able to establish my own nonprofit based on the experiences that, you know, I was given when I was little for running, and, you know, trying to share as much as I can, but also being respectful of what I shouldn't share. I think it's always great to invite, you know, people who aren't from Hopi to keep an eye out for a race out there, because, you know, it could even be a small free race. It's an experience.

You do feel the sense of gratitude that our people have when you're out there running, so if you're ever having a chance, go check it out.

[Meranden]

Yeah, and if you're not familiar, Tuba is about, like, an hour away, so it's not that far if you guys want to go visit. Okay, does anyone have any questions?

[Audience Member]

So, it is my understanding that Meranden, and maybe Lakin, and maybe some other people, are running a race or a marathon this fall. I'm curious if you have any words of encouragement for these folks.

[Wendi Lewis]

Yeah, Meranden actually reached out to me, and I failed at, you know, getting back with her in terms of her, but I'm really excited for her, and are you also training? Okay, yeah, I wish you the best, and you are welcome to reach out. I will come run with you if guys come to Tuba.

I'll go on a training run with you, so yeah.

[Meranden]

I'm kind of glad you mentioned that. Yeah, me and Lakin, we signed up for a half marathon that's happening here at Grand Canyon. It's at the end of October, so we have some time, but we kind of just were like, we should do it, pulled up the website, paid for it, and then we just left it, so yeah.

The best way to get started. Yeah, so we've been running around here. It's nice.

My biggest fear is like snakes now, so I'm kind of scared of them.

[Wendi Lewis]

Yeah.

[Meranden]

But I do have some running in me. My mom ran really good in high school. They were like good state champs.

My mom, her brother, and then my grandpa, they're really good runners, and then my little, my two little sisters, they ran cross-country and track, so it's kind of in my blood. I always played volleyball, so I didn't do running, but I can do running if I need to.

[Wendi Lewis]

Yeah. Yeah, I think did you actually come in first at that race that we had for the girls, females?

[Meranden]

No, I did third. I barely made it, but yeah.

[Wendi Lewis]

All right. I just wanted to add one thing, since this is, you know, and I feel really bad I didn't mention them earlier. They're also heroes to me.

I just mentioned Caroline, because she's, you know, I've known her the longest, but we have, I have another really good friend. They're all so supportive of all the work that I do. Steven Ovah is Hopi from the village of Sitsomovi, and he actually got in for the Western States 100, which he'll be competing in at the end of this month, which is huge.

He went through a lot. He, you know, he was earning his tickets, and then I don't remember what happened, and he had to start all over again, and he was so frustrated, and I just remember the excitement when he announced that he got drawn for Western States this year, so we're gonna be cheering him on. Look up Western States Endurance Run 100, and then the other is Kellen Lomayestewa.

Two years ago, he finished a Cocodona 250, and that really brought a lot of our community together, really excited everybody. He didn't do it this year, but he did register under a charity bib. He'll be fundraising for the Hopi Foundation, and he'll be competing in Cocodona 250 in 2026, so I, you know, I do what I can.

Like I said, you know, the apparel, I try to help them, you know, fundraise for them. I've seen the work that it takes to crew for ultras, and it's a lot of money. It's, you know, so especially for Steve trying to travel out to Olympic Valley, California, so, you know, I just wanted to give them a shout out and thank them for always, always supporting everything that I do, whether it's the apparel, the nonprofit work, all of that.

They're also big heroes to me, too.

[Meranden]

All right, we're gonna be ending our sunset talk now. Askwali to Wendi for being here today, and yeah, thank you guys for being here. Thank you.

[Speaker 3]

Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal, lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/GRCA. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon, these being the Havasupai tribe, the Hualapai tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute tribe.

Nahongvita! Askwali! Kwa’kwa! Just some of the words you may hear if you ever run a race at one of the Hopi villages. Wendi Lewis describes her running journey which ultimately influenced her to become a cross country and track coach. Now a head coach at Tuba City High School, she incorporates the cultural aspects of running for her team. She also tells us about her apparel business and how she uses it to help the community through fundraisers.

Episode 6

Malia Ukestine Speaks

Transcript

[Malia Ukestine]

I feel like a lot of Native American people are overlooked just because of how small our community is, especially Zuni. So, me being in that positive light, it showed that we are resilient and that we are deserving of a chance to show our talents and abilities.

[Lakin]

Welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

[Meranden]

And this is Meranden.

[Lakin]

In this episode, I interviewed former Scottsdale Community College basketball athlete Malia Ukestine.

[Meranden]

Malia, who is from Zuni, described the journey of overcoming a torn ACL in high school to winning playoff games with her college team.

[Lakin]

She also discussed the traditional connections that the Zuni people have with Grand Canyon, namely Ribbon Falls and Whitmore Wash.

[Meranden]

Take a listen and enjoy.

[Malia Ukestine]

Keshi. Ho’ Malia Ukestine le’shinna. Hom annodi: Dowa:kwe deyan Donashi:kwe a:wan cha’le.

Hello, everyone. My name is Malia Ukestine, and my clans are Corn and child of a Badger. I am currently 22 years old, and I graduated with my Associates at Scottsdale Community College with my general studies.

And I am currently just working in the business industry. But yeah, I played basketball for two years at Scottsdale Community on a basketball scholarship.

[Lakin]

Nice. Is this your first time to the canyon?

[Malia Ukestine]

Well, I've been here when I was younger, but I don't really remember much. But yeah, it was very surreal. Like, I wasn't expecting it to be like this beautiful.

And overlooking, you can see all the rivers and stuff, which I wasn't expecting. So that was pretty cool.

[Lakin]

Yeah, right now the river is running red because of the sediments being washed into the Colorado. So yeah, I'm glad that you find this place special. But we also want to know more about what does the canyon mean to you? And also, what does it mean to Zuni?

[Malia Ukestine]

Yeah, so the canyon is important to me and my people because it's where we originated from. There are petroglyphs, I believe, in the canyon where it tells how we came about and like the stories and our Zuni prayer as well.

Some of the petroglyphs show how we came from the Zuni emergence, which I believe was from the Ribbon Falls. And that would be our fourth world under the Grand Canyon. So, it shows like how we came from underneath with our toes and tails and hands.

So, we have a special and deep connection where some of our group leaders traveled down there and get materials that we use for our Pueblo for the same purposes as our ancestors did.

[Lakin]

So I believe you're referring to the Whitmore panel. And so for those listening, there's a petroglyph panel.

And so it's way down on that end of the canyon. And Ribbon Falls is on the north corridor. So like Malia mentioned, there's some imagery that depicts the emergence story of our people.

But circling back to your experience in college athletics, you did mention that you went to Scottsdale College for basketball. And we just want to know, like, what were some highlights of that experience?

[Malia Ukestine]

Yeah, I would say definitely meeting new people and getting a new experience outside the Pueblo, since that's where all I knew and where I was from. So definitely meeting new people.

They became my second family, especially my roommates and my coaches. Like, if I call them, then I know they'll always be there for me. And I would definitely say, we made it to the finals.

So, we won against one of our rivals, Mesa. And that was probably one of the best games that I played at SCC. And the crowd was so into it as well, which I love, like, every second of it.

So I would say those would be one of my best experiences there from SCC.

[Lakin]

Yeah, and it's pretty exciting getting to hear the crowd get louder as the game gets into the fourth quarter. So that's pretty cool that you got to not only be in those moments but also be a participant in the actual game.

So yeah, that's, that's cool that you got to be there. But did you have anyone that inspired you to pursue collegiate basketball? Or did you have moments in your life that inspired that?

[Malia Ukestine]

I from a younger age, I always knew that I wanted to go at a higher level and play. But I would say who inspired me the most would be my sisters, because they are younger than me.

So, I wanted them to have someone to look up to and to show them that whatever you work at, you can get done in life with dedication. And also a point in my life, in my high school career, my basketball coach, coach Joshua Dupont, I would say he was one of my inspirations. Because during my junior year, I had torn my ACL.

And that's when COVID was happening as well. So, it was just a tough mental space for me. And just having him like having my back and him always being there for me and just pushing me to be my best was very, very inspiring to me.

And just he was, he always knew that I would be special and the next level. So just have him having my back, and him going through that whole experience with me. And so that would probably be one of my inspirations.

And also my mom, she, she sacrificed a lot for me and my siblings. And she gave up a lot as well. And just her showing us that we can do it like on the next level by ourselves and just being ourselves and we can do whatever with hard work and dedication and just putting our time into whatever we want.

[Lakin]

Yeah, and it's always good to have those people close to you that always want to uplift you, especially family. And so that's why our community is we still sustain those cultural values is because our families are so connected in that way that you described. But also like the challenges that we experience, kind of help inform how we approach challenges in the future.

Yeah. So as an athlete, and also a student, you represented the Zuni community in a positive light. Why is indigenous representation important in collegiate sports?

[Malia Ukestine]

I would say it's important because not many of us get to experience that college experience or definitely not playing sports while in college.

So I feel like me having that representation gave Native athletes inspiration to grow into that light and to show them that they are capable of going on to the next level. And also, I feel like a lot of Native American people are overlooked just because of how small our community is, especially Zuni. So me being in that positive light, it showed that we are resilient and that we are deserving of a chance to show our talents and abilities.

[Lakin]

Yeah, and I definitely feel like every small effort to improve this representation matters, whether it's like, not only being an athlete, but also going to college and obtaining your degree in whatever it is that you find interest in. But I want to know, what message do you have for youth back at home who wish to pursue collegiate athletics?

[Malia Ukestine]

I would say to trust the process and that everyone is on their own path. Because for me personally, I was always overthinking and being like, why ain't I already at this level? Or just comparing myself to others.

So I would just say, just trust the process and believe that everything happens for a reason and everyone is on their own pace on their own path. And if you are wanting to do collegiate sports, I would say definitely take the time to perfect your craft and take care of your body mentally and physically. Because it is a lot with school and like keeping your grades up and being with practice and wanting to perform great.

So I would say definitely just keeping your mental at a good state and just getting that extra work in and keeping your body good. I mean, I was in the training room like 24-7. That was my second home.

So yeah, that would be my advice.

[Lakin]

Nice. And so anyone listening to this, we hope that you do that.

So yeah. Thank you, Malia. And we always throw in a fun question for our interviewee, but also for the audience.

And our fun question is, it's pretty big. What's your favorite indigenous food?

[Malia Ukestine]

My favorite indigenous food? Hmm, well, probably the red chili soup with our Zuni bread. That would probably be my favorite.

Or Chuleya:we, so pozole. But that would definitely be my top two. There's too many I can't pick.

[Lakin]

Do you like your red chili stew hot or mild?

[Malia Ukestine]

Hot. I definitely like it hot.

[Lakin]

Nice. Okay, we're kind of getting to the end of the program here. But did you have a message that you want to leave the audience with here in person, but also listening?

[Malia Ukestine]

I would just say thank you for tuning in with me and showing support. It was great talking about my community and where I came from.

I would also like to see more Native athletes succeed. Just because like I said, we are a small community. And I feel like as a community, we are one.

So definitely just going out there and experiencing the world or going to college, whatever you may do, it's always a good light.

[Lakin]

Nice. So we'll open questions up to the audience here.

[audience member]

Okay. You talked about you spent a lot of time in the training room, then that was like your second home in a way. I bet that was a lot of work.

I actually have two. It's like, what did you what were some like things you did during training? And then I feel like that was a lot of work. So how did you like specifically take care of yourself?

Because you said like, you'd take care of yourself mentally and physically. How did you like really achieve that yourself?

[Malia Ukestine]

Yeah, so like I said, I tore my ACL. So that training went to my knee and just getting it stronger. So we did lots of weightlifting, and just building my knee up back to where it was.

And so after that, some treatment we will do would be ice baths or heating pads. And also we would, I forgot it was like these air compressions where they would go on the legs and just compress your legs. So that was probably one of my favorite ones.

But other than that, for mentally, I would say just going out and just hanging out with my friends and being around my family that really helped me mentally. And even like, even though my family wasn't with me physically, I was, I always knew that they were a call away. So I will always call my family and like just check up on them.

So I would say that really helped me mentally. And just being around like my friends and family.

[audience member]

I know this probably goes into the category of questions that you get a lot. Because you just graduated recently, right with the associate's degree. What are you because you're talking about business and like, what are you hoping to do with your career?

[Malia Ukestine]

Yeah, so I work in the car business.

But right now, I do want to go back to school to go into nursing. So right now I'm just working. But once I go back, I do plan on going into the nursing program to be a travel nurse, RN travel nurse, I do want to travel the world and help people.

So yeah, those are my plans.

[Lakin]

I kind of have a question. Since you work in the car business, do you have a favorite car or dream car?

[Malia Ukestine]

Yeah, Acura TLX.

That'd be my mom's car.

[Lakin]

Okay, cool. That's it, everyone. Thank you all for coming. And thank you guys for tuning in online as well.

[Ranger Jonah]

Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy.

A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park. To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/grca.

Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai tribe, the Hualapai tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

A small number of our Indigenous athletes are fortunate enough to showcase their talents at a collegiate level, and Malia Ukestine is one of those athletes! After overcoming an ACL injury in high school, she received a scholarship to play at Scottsdale Community College and shares this experience in this Speaks episode. Malia also describes details regarding traditional Zuni connections to Grand Canyon and how it’s carried on by today’s generation. Tune in to season 3 and enjoy this episode!

Episode 7

Lakin Epaloose Speaks

Transcript

[Lakin Epaloose]

I would say that; understand that a lot of the traditional practices that have taken place in this entire landscape, which we call home, those practices are still passed down today. So we still continue to hold the cultural values that have kept our families together and families that support one another. So if you guys have family, then try to connect with them in different ways.

Connect with the people you have close with you.

[Meranden]

Welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. I'm Meranden

[Ranger Dan]

And this is Ranger Dan.

[Meranden]

Throughout season three, we've been highlighting sports and athletes from the 11 tribes that call the Grand Canyon home. However, this one is a bit different.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah, this time I spoke with Lakin, who is an intern here at the Park, and we covered topics revolving around hunting as a sport, but more importantly, hunting as a tradition.

[Meranden]

Hunting has both evolved and sustained its cultural significance for many of our tribes throughout the region, and Lakin shares his perspective as a Zuni hunter.

[Ranger Dan]

We hope you enjoy this episode and stay tuned for more of season three.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Good evening, everyone.

My name is Lakin Epaloose. Ho’ Lakin Epaloose le'shinna. Ho’ Dowa:kwe deyan Suski:kwe a:wan cha’le. So Dowa:kwe is my clan, my first clan, and Suski:kwe is my second clan.

Dowa:kwe is Corn clan and Suski:kwe is Coyote clan. I'm from the Zuni Pueblo, and that is located four hours east on the road, or 252 miles going on this Highway 89 to I-40, Gallup you head south from Gallup you'll get there yeah I'm from Zuni.

Our Pueblo is pretty secluded and our reservation is located in this valley that sits between a mesa the mountains out east called Zuni mountains and some desert hills out to the west.

I've been an intern here for about it's about a year now but my previous term was served under Arizona Conservation Corps and I'm an intern under ALCC which is this right here Ancestral Lands Conservation Corps. Because of the work we did we were able to get extended for another year so we'll be here until January

[Ranger Dan]

So I want to also emphasize the work that Lakin is talking about is normally he's on this side of the microphone where I am, actually doing the interviews with other people here so Lakin and Meranden are in charge of the Grand Canyon Speaks podcast.

They've selected people that we do interview throughout the year here and our emphasis this year is actually focusing on sports and why they're so important to Indigenous communities that call the canyon home and hunting can kind of fit into these categories to a certain extent for outdoor recreation.

But yeah this is I think this is the first time you've been on the interviewee side of a program here but yeah I'm super excited because I've gotten to know Lakin for over a year now since he started in last August.

Yeah we've had a lot of conversations about a lot of different subjects and I think we've been able to identify that hunting is a really important topic especially for you because you go out a lot when you're back home and it's coming to the close of antelope season or pronghorn season too which I know you're hoping to bag one too.

So I want to kind of get started with your history with hunting and kind of when did you when were you first exposed to hunting actually out at Zuni?

[Lakin Epaloose]

So I would say I started hunting around like age like five or six.

I remember I would go like out with my dad and I remember the first time he let me shoot a gun which was a 22 rifle and yeah ever since like I've been hunting at that age I feel like I've picked up a lot of knowledge and skill because of my dad.

Because he would be the main one I would go hunting with and then later on I would go hunting with my friends and even I would have the opportunity to teach my friends how to hunt and hunt specific things like birds or big game or small game even.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah so is this like would you say it's kind of a generational thing where like you're learning from your dad, did he learn from his dad on how to go hunting and learn the landscape as well?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah he would tell me that he used to go hunting with his dad, specifically deer hunting and so that was one big game that they focused on and then later on he would learn how to hunt turkey.

And so after that he taught me how to hunt turkeys which is like I would say it's similar to hunting elk because when you're like hunting turkeys, especially in the spring, you're locating where they're roosting and with elk too, you're locating where they're bugling and where their herds are moving through.

So that's pretty much the same approach you take.

[Ranger Dan]

Okay.

How many different seasons do you have to go hunting? Because I know you're into bow hunting but also rifle as well but that takes you into and just long gun I should say and it takes you into a bunch of different animals that you do hunt throughout the year.

So how many times how many different animals do you think you go after a year.

[Lakin Epaloose]

You can go all year round but there's specific times during the year where hunting isn't allowed like during our fasting which occurs in the winter and during the summer. One of the purposes for fasting is to preserve our resources and to give the Earth a time to rest and the wildlife time to rest as well.

There's like specific rules when it comes to hunting birds in the summer.

So just to let y'all know and to let everyone know listening; Zuni tribal members are allowed to have feathers and hunt specific birds but during the summertime there are specific birds that come into this region, and they're known as migratory birds.

In Zuni they're also known as summer birds and the feathers and the birds themselves just represent the monsoon rains that start to come through the region during this time of year specifically like July through late August and during this time year those same birds come up from Central America and Mexico.

And it's understood that they travel with the rain so that's why they're important culturally because we rely on the rain for our dry land agricultural practices.

So we associate that with the wildlife that inhabit this region during this time year.

[Ranger Dan]

And so are you also saying that like Zuni has the ability to take different birds that other people don't have the ability to?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah, like I said majority of the birds that are used for cultural purposes are able to be harvested by tribal members.

There are other birds that you can't kill legally like eagles. You keep them as pets and that's the traditional way of taking their feathers. A long time ago they would hike up to cliff sides or into the mountains to look for the eagle nests and they'll find the egg and they'll take that back home and they'll take care of the eagle until it reaches its old age.

So the eagle becomes their pet. Same thing with the parrots and macaws. Before we reached Zuni during our migration, we used to inhabit different regions or locations in the southwest that are regarded as ancestral sites and in these ancestral sites we were connected with other Puebloan civilizations and cultures that ended up moving down into Mexico.

So we sustained those connections and one of those examples is we would trade feathers and the birds themselves the macaws and so our people took care of macaws and still do to this day.

And so if you're ever in Zuni, you might meet a family who has a macaw as their pet or an eagle.

So that's pretty cool to know but to go back to your question how many seasons there are, there's winter; so usually during the wintertime you'll find a lot of the birds like Clark's nutcrackers which are located in the Park at Grandview.

They're pretty cool when you get up to them they're these in Zuni they're called lohaya bo’ya because their head is gray and their feathers on their wings are black and they have a little white patch on their shoulder.

So there's that and there's other birds like flickers, woodpeckers, and bluebirds there's mountain bluebirds and the western bluebirds which kind of have a different color so I'll use you two as an example.

The feathers on the mountain bluebird are like that color. Western [bluebird] is more like that blue so that's pretty cool to know and I'm glad you guys wore those shirts.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah I think they planned it.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah. It was a planned thing.

Springtime is usually turkey hunting season, so turkeys will breed in the springtime and they will usually be like toms which are the mature turkeys or the gobblers.

They'll be with their hens and so you can use different types of turkey calls to lure the toms in and whenever you go turkey hunting you can also go bird hunting.

Summertime is like I mentioned a time to hunt the migratory birds like the Orioles or in Zuni they're called Ono’łikya and the different types of buntings like those lazuli buntings, indigo buntings, the grosbeaks and they're all very colorful birds the tanagers too western and summer.

Those are yellow red and the summer tanagers are all red. So yeah there's a bunch of different cool birds and each of those birds have unique Zuni names and also like one vision I have is to create a book that has all these names of the birds identified in Zuni and in English and also the ornithological terminology for each of the species.

So I feel like that information is important because it not only is significant in identifying birds but also the words themselves carry knowledge. For example there's this one bird that it's kind of leaving now because it's getting to the end of the summer but you might hear it every now and then it's called a violet-green swallow and on their back they're a very vibrant green and on their lower part of their back there it's a very vibrant purple

And in Zuni they're called Awisho: Seto which means “algae back” and the reason why algae is important is because it resembles places where bodies of water are located for example springs and ponds and those springs and ponds are usually used as places of offering or collecting water for cultural purposes.

So it's like you can connect the identification of a bird with specific locations that contain water or can contain other elements of nature that are culturally important.

[Ranger Dan]

And these birds also hang around these areas too they're skimming the water catching the insects that are off of them and so it's all connected into one location with this identification of the bird itself.

So yeah you're talking about knowledge. From one bird we just got that much knowledge.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yes exactly yeah and I'll go to the next season. That's fall season.

That can kind of be my favorite because that's when big game hunting usually opens. So like Dan mentioned earlier, I have a antelope archery tag to fill.

And for those who know about hunting and archery hunting antelope or pronghorn antelope is one of the hardest animals to hunt because not only do they have a good sense of smell like elk and deer but they're the fastest land mammal in North America and they have the eyesight almost as good as a hawk.

So they can see you I believe up to five miles away.

So usually with deer you do this technique called spot and stalk. You'll find a place where they're going to bed or rest in the shade and then you'll kind of creep around to make your way closer to it based on the wind direction.

So you go against the wind so that it won't catch your scent but the thing with pronghorn is they're usually located in vast open areas.

The wind can be tricky in those open areas and they have good eyesight and they bed down kind of like how cats do. If you guys know how cats loaf, that's how pronghorn kind of bed down and also they'll spot you if you walk standing straight up they'll spot you easily so you're out of luck if you mess up.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah

[Lakin Epaloose]

And they'll take off

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah it's a pretty quick animal.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah so usually when you see people hunting them with bows and with a bow you can get up to I would say anywhere between 30 and 60 yards is a good shot.

So that's about from here to Eliana back there that's about 30 yards or even like 25.

60 yards is about that bush halfway down that way so you kind of have that room to work with.

But yeah I do like hunting pronghorn it's a very challenging hunt but when you fulfill it that satisfaction is there. Deer hunting is also my favorite because they're kind of in between elk and antelope they're pretty tough to hunt but when you do get it, it’s a nice feeling.

And elk is also a fall animal that is hunted. It's funny because they're kind of stupid like I mean they're big and they'll come into pretty much anything especially if they're in the rut.

Like I can do an elk call right now I'll do one. That's how a cow elk sounds.

So like if you do that in the morning they'll bugle easily and that's during the fall time during their rut.

[Ranger Dan]

We got tp do that outside the apartment I want to hear this in the morning.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah yeah that's one of my favorite animals to hunt because when they are coming in you can hear them crashing through the trees and it gets your adrenaline going especially in the morning after you wake up.

So that's one cool thing to wake up to is the crashing and the bugling and they're very loud especially if you're in their area where there's like five bulls fighting that's one cool experience.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah yeah that's cool.

[Lakin Epaloose]

But if you do get one I'll say like when you're field dressing an elk it's it smells.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah like it just smells like elk pee.

[Ranger Dan]

That's nice. Yeah you got to be ready for that to get dirty when you're hunting especially dressing it out.

Yeah you've touched upon a couple different topics along the way describing the seasons and what's available for hunting and one of the things that I would like to kind of take it back to you is I mean you're talking about information that's one of it's a huge thing within Zuni culture where you can pick one thing and there's so much to talk about it because that one object carries so much information.

But if we start thinking about it, this is all passed down knowledge.

This is traditional knowledge so what is the the history of Zuni and hunting altogether and like how is it important within the culture?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah so hunting from the Zuni perspective isn't just harvesting game for the meat and for the parts but it also has a spiritual aspect.

So one example is when you're hunting you're not just hunting like I said for the meat you're also... there's like this saying that it's like if you're successful in your hunt you're not only blessed for bird hunting blessed for deer hunting you're not only blessed but it's also a way of bringing someone who passed away back home.

So someone in your family or in the like your ancestor they want to come home so that's why you get lucky with hunting is because there's some someone in your family that passed away or someone that is an ancestor that wants to come home and visit home.

So that's one of the spiritual connections is the spirits live through the animals so when we bring it back home we treat it as someone who's visiting our home that passed away.

[Ranger Dan]

Okay.

[Lakin Epaloose]

So that's one traditional aspect of hunting.

Also going way back before there were rifles and compound bows. Of course we will use traditional bows made out of cedar if not we would use trapping techniques but not necessarily to kill the animal but to harvest the parts for example the bird feathers. There's this technique or method of trapping where you will tie this like a strand either a hair strand or a rope and you would put bait in the middle and then you would let the bird land and once the bird lands you would pull that string and grab its leg or catch its legs.

Then you'll hold it with your hand and then pluck a couple of the feathers and you just want it to pluck enough to where the bird can continue to fly so that you have the feathers you need but the bird can still live.

[Ranger Dan]

It's taking what's necessary.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah exactly.

[Ranger Dan]

Not being greedy in a way.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah and so that's another philosophy that is taught and practiced for hunting in Zuni; is that you take what you need not more than you need because if you do end up taking more than you need or more than what's necessary you can end up creating bad luck for your own life or for someone you love.

So things can happen that are unwanted or drastic.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah, it's this cascading effect that can affect the people, yeah.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah. So going to the historical aspect, like I said in our culture we teach that we migrated from Ribbon Falls, Grand Canyon to Zuni, New Mexico but along the way we stopped at several ancestral sites and one example is along the Colorado River if you follow it all the way up to Utah you'll get to the Moab area right south of Arches National Park.

So I went to Arches for ethnographic overview and one of the places we stopped at Arches I believe was called Courthouse Wash and so we hiked up into that little valley and we got to this cliff side and on the cliff side there was petroglyphs of people hunting and petroglyphs of different animals.

So once we saw that and we realized that there's all these different tracks in the valley for example bobcat which in Zuni is called Debi; deer tracks, mule deer tracks which is Na’le; some elk tracks and mountain lion tracks and bear tracks all in the area and even turkey tracks in that desert.

So there's Rio Grande turkeys in that desert and if you can imagine that desert it's iron rich dirt with some cottonwood trees so it's just red all around and it's kind of rare that you'll see turkeys but the turkeys in this area are known as Merriam's turkeys.

So there's different types of turkeys in this area but yeah so that's one fact that is connected to our historical connection with hunting.

[Ranger Dan]

And throughout time I mean you're not taking more than you need and when a need is there, it could also it could be for like sustenance for food to feed people but also there's that ceremonial side as well for the traditions that are still practiced to this very day.

And so I know like just from some of your paintings that I've seen like you've talked about like looking at what is represented in them on the figures and talking about like this is like a like a mallard feather here but so there's more than just a sustenance use for animals and they're incorporated into Zuni traditions right?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yes, so some symbolic aspects of hunting and animals and birds in general is the color and shape.

So one example is like you mentioned the mallard feathers. So on the bird there's two types of feathers on the wing: there's secondary and primary. So if you can imagine your arm like that the feathers that are on this tip right here they're known as primaries and they're the sharper feathers.

In Zuni they're called lats’umme:we; ts’umme means strong and lawe is feathers. So those are used for a specific purpose and secondary feathers are right under here if you can imagine under your arm or this undermost part of the bird wing those are more wide and so like I mentioned with the duck feather the duck feathers the secondary feathers of the duck especially the mallard they're purple.

So in Zuni they're called lak’ek’wi:we.

One of the meanings behind that color in that feather is when you look at the clouds these ones right here the cumulus clouds on the bottommost part they're very dark and dark blue and even sometimes dark purple so that's what the color of that feather it's connected to and what it means so yeah that's one example.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah I mean so it's really tied into the culture itself. Yeah there's a reason that this bird is harvested for the feathers there's a purpose for it that's a sacred use and it's an important use as well in traditions that exist in today.

And another aspect of like and I'm kind of my head's going all over the place I got so many things I can talk to you about we've only limited amount of time and like you're talking about like bringing a family member home and like it's to spend time with that person, that group of people once again.

But that's also feeding a family as well so what like beyond hunting we've got some ceremonial type uses as well but like how important is it that these hunted game build community around it, around that game itself?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah, from a cultural perspective there's religious fraternities or groups in the Zuni community that take care of a lot of the hunting obligations so that's one way it builds community and keeps the culture together and the values that formulate the culture and are responsible for the way the elders are connected to the youth.

From a personal or a familial perspective, I would say it has helped me bond with family members like my dad a lot more because that's one of the activities that me and him would do that I look back on the most.

Like we'll be hunting and he'll teach me a lot and we'll not only talk about hunting but also other things like I'll learn a lot about life when I'm out there with him.

I would also connect with my friends in different ways like I feel like the moments where I’ve laughed the most is out in the forest especially when they're doing stupid stuff.

Like one example is we're turkey hunting a couple years ago and we're sitting under a tree and there's a turkey gobbling and that was pretty hard that year because there's a lot of hunters around and the turkey was coming closer and then his legs started falling asleep and then he couldn't really move and he was complaining and it was coming closer.

I told him to be quiet and then we heard rustling going on to the left of us behind this line of trees.

We didn't know what it was later on we found out there was a black bear kind of hanging out in the area.

So there's a lot of different things going on at once when we were sitting there and then my other friend in the back he ended up farting really loud.

So that scared the turkey away, so yeah that's one of the funnier moments that I can look back on.

But yeah I got to teach my friends how to hunt specific cleans but also learn with them.

Like I had a friend his name was Ian and he passed away this year. I knew him for 12 years and one cool thing that I can remember about him is that we learned a bunch of different waterfowl together. So like it was funny this one time we were duck hunting and we shot this duck we thought it was a duck it was a grebe and if you don't know anything about grebes their feet look funny. So yeah.

[Ranger Dan]

Do they have like the big blue feet?

[Lakin Epaloose]

They do, some of them.

[Ranger Dan]

Okay.

[Lakin Epaloose]

[American] Coots can.

[Ranger Dan]

Oh that's the coots yeah, that's the coots

[Lakin Epaloose]

But they almost look like coots. So like things like that it's like I look back on and I have a lot of value for those moments

[Ranger Dan]

For sure yeah I know. I mean you're learning about people and you're learning about yourself and you're bonding in these moments and that's what helped build helps build the community at Zuni and like one of the things we always talk about when Zuni tribal members come out here is the super strong aspect of community within Zuni and it's really seen and it's kind of like a glow that everyone has around them when they come out and it's really apparent and once you start talking to everybody and it's just there.

I would say another aspect of it and this is kind of a tangent is like we know people by their official government names whereas everyone back home knows each other by nicknames and so we got to really piece together with everybody who comes out here.

Like oh you're talking about so-and-so and so-and-so and like “that's their real name?” “Yes.”

So the community is so strong everybody just knows one another which is a lot of fun to always hear and and talk about with everyone who comes out.

With the fun question we always have for the podcast, we're kind of getting into food a little bit here.

Normally we talk about like what's a favorite traditional food that would be something you would want right now but this is a little bit different I mean there's traditional foods associated with hunting but what would you go for in the game world what would you go for right now Lakin?

What would you want just a big turkey leg, like a renaissance fair type turkey leg?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Back strap on deer and antelope is good but a lot of people also prefer elk meat. With deer ribs you can't really get any meat off of them because they don't have a lot of meat on the ribs but back strap is good if you bake it or even grill it.

A traditional method of preparing deer meat or antelope meat, [or] elk meat is using a type of mint it's called frosted mint it grows near Zuni.

There's this mesa in Zuni called Dowa Yalanne which in Zuni means “Ancient mountain” and it might be confused with “Corn mountain.”

The reason why is because there's two types of Zuni language. There's kind of like it's not really new Zuni but there's definitely an older Zuni that is related to the language that was practiced when our ancestors were moving throughout this region.

So anyway that's what that word Dowa Yalanne comes from is ancient mountain and on the east side of that when the sun would come up, the frosted mint would grow along the hillsides and that grows out in Arches National Park too.

So you can pick that mint and in Zuni it's called dowa mats’a I don't know if I mentioned that I might have.

And you can cook your meat with that and it adds a really nice flavor to it. Yeah so like I said back strap with salt, pepper, paprika, cayenne pepper, garlic powder and green chili.

[Ranger Dan]

And green chilies? Yeah it's hatch green chili season right now everybody so take notes on this recipe that was just said here and I think you might want to have a good good meal.

Would be nice, yeah.

As a non hunter, but a person who's wanted to go hunting, oh man I think I would have to go for I don't know like I think elk is at the top and also like venison too.

When I lived in Alaska, everybody up there just hunted all the time. So Alaskan barbecues were amazing because you could have surf and turf but like you had everything off the hoof from moose to venison to mountain goat down to octopus, crab, shrimp everything.

Oh yeah those Alaskan barbecues, that's kind of what I'm remembering right now like mountain goat burgers that type of stuff; moose meatballs yeah there's good stuff, it’s good.

So it's a little different a little different but yeah I could definitely go for one of our pesky Elks around here. I think they'd be really tasty right now, yeah.

And to kind of round off some things here, there's a lot of satisfaction that I'm hearing within your voice when you're talking about hunting you're talking about the connections to your community.

What's kind of like the greatest sense of satisfaction that you get from this practice? Is it a physical, is it emotional, a cultural, a spiritual like if you feel like sharing for this question, what kind of satisfaction do you feel with this?

[Lakin Epaloose]

There's I guess three parts or three different kinds of satisfaction that I get from it. One is connecting with the people you are with when you're hunting and even if you're hunting by yourself you get to think a lot about like your own life and in a positive setting where there's a lot of light you're not stuck inside of a building or room.

You get to kind of explore different regions that you've never explored or even if you have, you get to revisit those and revisit old memories and thoughts and continue to ponder on those thoughts you didn't get to finish.

Yeah second aspect is you have time to connect with nature in different ways like identifying plants and learning different things about plants as well as different ways to hunt. Let's say a bird or a specific animal especially if you have a shortcoming you learn from that so you get to grow and learn in that wa.

Third one is when it comes down to actually taking the shot there's a lot of adrenaline going through your body and I think that's true with bow hunting because with rifle hunting you can just aim the gun and let it do its thing but with the bow you kind of have to like gauge the distance a little bit more precisely based on the wind too

And also hold your bow still, especially if the poundage is higher because you'll have to hold that heavy poundage for a lot longer time especially if the animal’s moving from one; let's say there's a bush in front of it moves and you have to wait for it to stand broadside.

Which broadside means basically like sideways and the reason why you want to shoot it from the angle is because you want to have an ethical kill and not a kill that makes the suffering longer.

So when it comes down to that moment and making sure all those different aspects of an ethical kill are complete, there's a lot of things that go into building up adrenaline and even anxiety if you're not prepared mentally but when you actually take the shot it's pretty cool it's like relieving.

I remember the my first archery kill was an elk. It was my third shot the first one was a 30-yard shot like from here to Eliana's bottle, maybe Eliana.

It was from here to Eliana and I messed up and I got in trouble because when I was practicing I was hitting the bullseye time and time again but when I shot it hit lower left and I was kind of like confused.

Second time was an 8 by 7 elk and that was one of the biggest I've seen and I kind of like stepped on something and it ran away or yeah I messed up.

Third chance was the hardest shot I've taken it was a 70 yard shot and I couldn't use the pins because the pins on the sight are 30, 40, 50 yards so I had to raise it above those pins to kind of gauge where it was going to land and so I took the 70 yard shot which is about from here to about that cedar, past that cedar tree sticking up from there.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah we're getting closer to the trading post now yeah with distance.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah it was across a big pond it was going down to drink water in the evening. It was my last day and I was about 15 or 16 years old and I shot.

I wasn't sure if I got it but we tracked it down and I ended up getting a double lung shot which is a full pass through which is what you want.

And so that was the best shot I've taken which was the hardest shot I've taken too.

[Ranger Dan]

It's a pretty good shot, yeah. Okay I like it.

If you could leave our guests here tonight with one last thing about kind of what we talked about tonight what would you like to leave with them?

[Lakin Epaloose]

I would say that understand that a lot of the traditional practices that have taken place in this entire landscape which we call home, those practices are still passed down today.

So we still continue to hold the cultural values that have kept our families together and families that support one another so if you guys have family then try to connect with them in different ways whether it's hiking or exploring new places or just having conversations about like what you're eating or like just different aspects of life.

I feel like that's one thing I want to leave with is connect with the people you have close with you.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah I like it. Thank you Lakin.

This has been fun, this has been a good time especially having you on the other side of the microphone now.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Thank you guys for coming.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah thank you everybody we're getting here to sunset so stay safe and enjoy.

[Ranger Jonah]

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices visit www.nps.gov/GRCA. Here at Grand Canyon National Park we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon.

These being the Havasupai tribe, the Hualapai tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute tribe.

Hunting wildlife has been practiced by Indigenous tribes for hundreds of years in this region and many of those traditions are still practiced today. Although many may see hunting as a sport, it is also regarded as spiritually and culturally significant for tribes and pueblos such as Zuni. In this episode, Lakin Epaloose discusses his hunting experience throughout the years and the traditional-ecological knowledge he’s picked up along the way. Take a listen to this episode and we hope you all enjoy!

Episode 8

Lynette Lewis Speaks

Transcript

[Lynette Lewis]

It's been definitely just amazing to see the growth, you know, to keep in contact after they're done when they become NABI alumni and to see their journey. Some of these kids get picked up by a college to play basketball and it's just awesome to see them representing not just NABI but, you know, their community, where they come from and just making a name for themselves.

[Lakin]

Hello and welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

[Meranden]

And this is Meranden.

[Lakin]

Today's episode is about Lynette Lewis. She is Diné and speaks about her involvement with NABI, the Native American Basketball Invitational, from starting as a volunteer and making her way to becoming the tournament director.

[Meranden]

She also describes her experience as a business owner where she provides professional services for Native athletes.

[Lakin]

And reveals that she is working on a film highlighting a very successful girls basketball team on the Navajo Reservation.

[Meranden]

Thank you for tuning into today's episode and here is Lynette Lewis.

[Lynette Lewis]

First, thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here and I like to first introduce myself in my Navajo Diné language. Hello everyone. (Introduces self in Navajo)

My name is Lynette Lewis. I am from the Bitterwater clan, born for the Mud clan, my maternal grandfathers of the Towering House clan and my paternal grandfathers of the Bear clan. And this is how I define myself as a Navajo woman.

[Ranger Eliana]

Awesome. Thank you for sharing that with us. I want to ask you, I heard it's your first time coming here to Grand Canyon.

What does it feel like to be here for the first time?

[Lynette Lewis]

It's overwhelming. It is my first time and I think stepping up to the rim, I am actually afraid of heights but this is actually not that bad. I think the first thing I said was it looks like a fake background but it's very beautiful.

Just to see nature and see this for the first time, it's amazing.

[Ranger Eliana]

That's so awesome and just so everyone listening knows, we are looking directly at the canyon right now and you did definitely say that the first time you stepped up to the rim. The canyon is really just so amazing and it's also such a significant place. So Grand Canyon is home to the 11 associated tribes but it also seems like one version of home for you might be on the basketball court or in your work with NABI.

Can you tell us about NABI, what it is and how you got started with it?

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah, so NABI is the Native American Basketball Invitational. It's been around for 22 years and it started off very, a very small tournament and has grown significantly over the past 20 years plus years. This past year, it is an event that happens every year in July in Phoenix, Arizona.

NABI does host Native American tribes from all over the country. It is a high school tournament and does take place over the course of four days and this year, there was 204 teams, boys and girls. There was 508 games total, played over four days and there were 160 plus tribal nations represented.

[Ranger Eliana]

Wow, that's a huge deal, especially like hearing about how NABI has grown over time. I remember listening to an interview you did a few years ago and I think you said maybe it was like 128 teams or something. It's so cool to hear how much and how quickly NABI has grown.

Another big achievement I heard of yours is that you were a commentator for NABI games on ESPN and I was curious what it means for you being an Indigenous woman on one of the largest sporting platforms in the world.

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah, so this was back I believe in 2021. We did have the opportunity to go live on ESPN plus which is a big accomplishment for NABI and I was one of several commentators. We were all an Indigenous broadcast and so that in itself was an accomplishment just representing our own tribes on this big platform just being female and in a sports world.

You really see that and now with women in sports, it's definitely growing and you know I just wanted to be that person for younger females to see and to know that you know they can also be in this position too.

[Ranger Eliana]

I remember in the office when I was thinking about what I wanted to ask you, one of my co-workers when I mentioned, oh she did say that you know she was a commentator on ESPN but I'm not sure if we have time for that question. He said definitely ask that you know make sure you ask that and also you know in regards to being a female in a male-dominated field, it's just so impressive and you're definitely a role model.

[Lynette Lewis]

Thank you.

[Ranger Eliana]

It's so awesome and I'm sure you're a role model for a lot of the youth as well. I do want to ask you because you mentioned you worked for NABI for 14 years and there's so many young people coming through NABI. Do you keep in touch with any of the players and how do you keep in touch with them?

[Lynette Lewis]

Yes, as you said 14 years. I have met a lot of players, kept in contact with a lot of coaches that have been coming every year with a new group of players. I think every player will at least play four years in NABI and then a new group of kids will come in but it's been definitely just amazing to see the growth you know to keep in contact after they're done when they become NABI alumni and to see their journey.

Some of these kids get picked up by a college to play basketball and it's just awesome to see them representing not just NABI but you know their community where they come from and just making a name for themselves. You rarely see Native American athletes playing at a college level so it's just great to see that you know that's also changing and we're seeing more representation in that too.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah and that's so cool that NABI has such a big role in highlighting young Native American athletes and helping to get them to the college level and that you're also still invested in the players after they come through NABI and seeing their growth over time and celebrating them. That's really awesome and I know that you also have grown a lot with NABI like you said 14 years. Could you tell me a little bit about like your time with NABI because I heard that you started as a volunteer and grew into your current position now you do a lot with the organization.

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah so it all started when I was still a student at Arizona State University and it was the summer time so I was on break and I needed something to do so knowing that NABI was coming up my sister and I we decided that we should volunteer and be part of it so that happened the first year and then I was actually asked to come back the following year to do an internship so it kind of started from there and then you know eventually went into a part-time position and then eventually full-time and then came to a point where I was I became the tournament director so this was I think this was my sixth year that just passed in 2025.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah you know that you started out as a volunteer and an intern and you've grown into such an important role with NABI you know I think it's really it's really good for young people to hear as well like I myself was an intern one year ago so it's inspiring to see how far you could go in your life and in your career.

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah and if I could add to that you know I always like to share my share this message to a lot of the youth is that it's important to volunteer it's important to take internships because it never know you never know where it's going to take you where you're going to end up and you know look at me and so I'm at a point where I was able to establish my own business and now I'm have the ability to work with other native communities and other organizations which has been great.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah that's so cool and such an important message for young people especially to hear it's like life could take you anywhere but you have to take those opportunities.

[Lynette Lewis]

Correct.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah that's awesome and I also think like NABI is such a great opportunity for young people because I know you told me that you have teams from all over the country and even some teams from abroad and all over the world and I'm curious what the experience is like for young players who come out to compete in NABI tournament.

[Lynette Lewis]

Aside from the competition I think it's all about bringing the kids together you know unify them and it's also an opportunity for them to meet other athletes from different parts of the world the other part you know from different tribes and also just to get to learn a different tribe's culture their you know traditions so it's you know educational too and I know a lot of athletes don't have the opportunity to travel even just out of state or to a big city so this is a great opportunity for them and just to meet other kids from different parts of the country from different communities.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah that's so cool and such a good learning experience and like cross-cultural connections for the kids. I want to ask you like maybe a personal question but did you travel much when you were growing up? I know you've traveled a lot now but when you were like maybe their age did did you have that experience traveling?

[Lynette Lewis]

Unfortunately I didn't. I'm from New Mexico so you know the nearest city was Albuquerque and you know that was big to me and then I think my first time going to traveling to California like that was major and because you know I never really had the opportunity and I just I knew when I had that first time traveling to another place I knew like I wanted to travel to more places outside of you know where I'm from. Now it's like with my work I have the opportunity to do so now and it's been amazing to travel to all these different places and you know see other communities.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah and there's like so much that you learn when you go somewhere that's different from the place that you grew up. It's really wonderful that you're kind of like facilitating and providing that opportunity for young people and you're also getting to learn yourself through your travels. I want to ask you kind of an unrelated random question because we always try to ask this fun question and that is what is your favorite native food?

[Lynette Lewis]

My favorite native food? Let's see so I am Navajo. Every time I go home I have to have mutton so roast mutton with green chili.

That's my go-to every time I go home. I mean there's a lot of other foods but I say you know that for sure.

[Ranger Eliana]

That sounds so good. I have to I've never actually had mutton and I also don't think I've ever had green chili. Can you describe for the listeners like what does it taste like or like what's green chili like?

[Lynette Lewis]

I don't know how to describe mutton. I've asked people before I know some people's it's not for everyone but green chili it's a well New Mexico they're known as the green chili capital of the world because you know of hatch green chili it's you know you can find it there in New Mexico. So I've grown up I feel like when we have dinner lunch doesn't matter when you're always have some sort of chili there that you eat with so I love spice I love chili so I know there's different temperature levels you know you can go mild you can go extra hot so it varies.

[Ranger Eliana]

Okay so Lakin is one of the interns here and he is from Zuni and when he comes home sometimes he brings fried chicken with chili and he let me try the chili sauce but it was red but whatever it was was really good.

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah red and green I say it's very similar we call it if you combine the two we call it Christmas.

[Ranger Eliana]

This is a good learning opportunity. I like that those are definitely the Christmas colors. That's awesome.

Now I'm just thinking about food and I'm trying to transition my brain back because I want to ask you now like kind of another question related to where you grew up because you told me that you you're in the process of making a film called Kirtland Dynasty and it's from the area where you grew up so I was wondering if you could tell us about the film what it's been like making the film and also why that story was important to you.

[Lynette Lewis]

So Kirtland Dynasty we're actually in post-production right now and we're in the process of finding investors to finish the film. It was a two-year project where we followed the girls basketball team over their season and I wanted to tell the story because they are currently 22 time state champions and I want to put it out there because it's unknown to hear well for me I felt it was normal because you know coming from a place where basketball is everything like having that many state championships was normal to hear you know from where I'm from but when I have met people told them about about it people are fairly shocked when I tell them how many state championships they've won and so basketball being huge in the Native community I definitely wanted to showcase this team because of the dynasty they created in Kirtland with their girls basketball program and you know there's talent there in the community and I say in all Native communities but you know in the specific community we've had several girls go on to play college basketball some who have who have made it to the D1 level so you know I want to tell their story and it's not a lot of people know about Kirtland or the program so this is my way of you know showing that and highlighting them and the place where I grew up.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah and it's really important to highlight that because like I definitely didn't know about that and you know it seems like there's so many young girls that give so much of themselves to this sport and and they're so successful and they really deserve recognition. So you mentioned how important basketball is to a lot of Native communities so I've heard that before and I've also heard like about "rez ball" and I'm not really familiar with like what basketball means to Native communities and also like how the style of basketball might be different. Could you tell me like a little bit about that?

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah so rez ball it is a style of play it's fast-paced a lot of people call it run and gun so you know make a basket you know you're just constantly running back and forth and and as far as basketball in the Native community I feel like it's like an outlet for a lot of young athletes because when you go to a lot of these tribal communities there's not much around as far as entertainment. So you know basketball being what it is when it comes to basketball season you know you see a lot of the community come together to watch a game to support their local team because I know for me living in New Mexico we never had any major sports teams in the area so basketball high school local high school teams were you know the teams we supported and I remember growing up I was fans of some of these players I looked up to some of these players and I wanted to play like these players and I wanted to be like them so with that I'm sure it's very similar everywhere else in different communities so I think it's extra special because you know we have our own way of life with our own type of basketball.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah and it's so cool how like even the style of the sport is unique to the community and it's also really cool how you say like the community comes out to support the team and how you looked up to them as a young person and I'm sure you have a lot of young people today who look up to you as well. I'm curious because you said res ball is more like fast-paced when you have the NABI tournaments is it like in rez ball style or the teams playing like fast-paced like that what's like what's the sport feel like when you have all these teams coming out for the NABI tournament?

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah I definitely see a lot of that res ball run and gun but I think now with this new generation of youth coming up you're starting to see a little transition of how basketball is being played you know you're seeing more organized basketball and you know with that too is one of the things that we lack in the native community is exposure. We don't have scouts college scouts coming out to the reservations to watch our kids play so that's why you know tournaments like NABI were created this was for the exposure so these kids can come to a place where they can be seen and so now that's becoming so big and you're seeing social media grow now we have we're at a point where NABI's having the games televised live like that's something new today and it's nice because you know back in back in my day when I was playing high school we had none of that we really didn't have social media social media was like just beginning and you know we weren't highlighted in that same way kids are now so I feel like now is the time to have our have our kids being seen and the opportunities for them to play at a higher level.

[Ranger Eliana]

It's definitely so important to have that exposure just to give people those opportunities and you mentioned how NABI games are now being streamed and that is so amazing. Could you tell me like a little bit about that process and also where listeners could watch NABI games?

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah so NABI does have their own network it's called NABI Network and I know this past year they work with Arizona Family where it was streamed live on their station I believe and I think it was also streamed live on YouTube but even after the games that are done they'll still be put on to NABI Network for people to still you know see those games even if they didn't see them back in July so I know NABI is definitely trying to expand and grow that live stream to a point where they can stream all games live so if you're looking at 508 games you know I think their goal is to stream all 508 games.

[Ranger Eliana]

Wow that's that would be like so awesome to be able to see them all and every player then I'm thinking about like every player and their families being able to look and say like that's me yeah that's super exciting and really important as well and you know we've talked a lot about NABI's growth and the important work that you're doing with NABI but I know that you also have your own business and I think that's really inspiring as well.

Could you tell us a little bit about your experience as a business owner?

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah so I never went to school to become a business owner um surprisingly I have a chemistry degree a bachelor in chemistry my career goal was to become a doctor and that totally changed once I got involved with NABI but my company started back November 2022 so I've had it for three years now but it's given me the opportunity to work with other organizations get into the community more and you know work within those communities because I feel now with my experience over the years I think I've come to a point where I can provide resources to the communities like come to them and provide my knowledge and any resources that I have come across and that's my my goal now with my work is to bring exposure and just support Native youth athletes especially in basketball which is my you know forte.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yeah it's so cool that like now you get to be the person that's coming to communities or providing resources or exposure it's really inspiring like even for me to see because I personally would love to support youth and so it's it's cool to see your journey how you've gotten to a point where you are the person providing that support. You mentioned going into different communities and I know that you've traveled to a lot of different tribal nations through your work so I wanted to ask you just about your experience traveling around the country traveling to different tribal nations and and what you've learned from that.

[Lynette Lewis]

Yeah as I said you know I've my goal was to travel and you know see the world I've only been outside of the country to Canada and I've actually been to Australia and Mexico those were the only three places I've been outside of the the U.S. but you know everyone wants to travel abroad but my goal is to visit as many tribal nations as possible because I want to learn about their culture and about you know where they come from because with my experience through NABI I have met so many people that have come from different nations and when I was in high school you know I didn't know there are that many tribal nations out there and like you said you know with my travel I've got an opportunity to travel to some of these communities and you know every place is very welcoming and it's just an honor to be there you know I've been to some places that I feel like were very similar to you know where I grew up and there's places that are totally different you go to a place like Florida or Washington because we're desert people and totally different but it's been awesome just to just even experience that a whole climate change.

[Ranger Eliana]

Yes it is crazy how different it is where you go because I'm from Washington so I know it's all rain there and here it's like well it's raining right now a little bit but it's mostly just dry and it's um there's so much you can learn from from going places and seeing how different the land is how different cultures are all the people you can meet where you go and I want to let you know you really inspire me especially hearing how you didn't travel much when you were younger but you wanted to and you've been able to like accomplish that and learn from that while also supporting young people it's it's just really inspiring and I'm sure there's a lot of young people out there who have been really touched by your work okay with that said I just want to ask if there's if there's anything you would like to leave the audience with?

[Lynette Lewis]

I think just going off of what I just said you know visiting some of these tribal nations if you're not from the community or if you're you know non-native I know there could be some hesitation and I know people want to learn but I would like the audience to know that a lot of these tribal communities are very welcoming a lot of places have museums and they have culture centers and those places were built for a reason was for people to come and visit their community to learn about their community to learn of their culture their traditions so you know best thing is to do a little research a lot of these tribes have their own website so definitely you know check out wherever you're going where you want to go see if they have a website that lists a museum a culture center and you know we as native people we're very open and very welcoming so you know take the initiative to learn about our culture.

[Ranger Jonah]

Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music.

This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the national park. To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices visit www.nps.gov slash grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon.

These being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

This episode features Lynette Lewis, a Diné woman who explains her involvement with NABI, the Native American Basketball Invitational. As a businesswoman of LRLewis LLC, she talks about how she is able to provide services to native athletes such as basketball tournaments and skills training. Rez ball is a huge component to her native community and she talks about the efforts she is doing to provide exposure to some very talented athletes.

Episode 9

Sierra Klemme Speaks

Transcript

[Sierra Klemme]

If something feels bigger than you, don't be afraid to really lean into it, to allow the intensity of those feelings to fully engulf you. You know, those feelings may be things you feel here at the Grand Canyon. I certainly do.

It is just something I wanted to say that being a part of something bigger than you is quite wonderful.

[Lakin]

Hello and welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

[Meranden]

And this is Meranden.

[Lakin]

In this episode, Meranden had a chance to interview Sierra Klemme who was an intern at Grand Canyon National Park and continues to pursue her career as a river guide.

As a member of the Navajo Nation, she grew up in Page, Arizona just up the road from the canyon.

[Meranden]

During her time at Page high school, she played with the girls’ soccer team, however she suffered an injury that caused her to miss out on her junior year of soccer.

[Lakin]

Despite this injury, Sierra wasn't ready to give up yet, so she continued to play soccer at the University of Colorado and Colorado Springs.

[Meranden]

Take a listen as Sierra tells us about going from a soccer athlete to a river guide. We hope you enjoy.

[Sierra Klemme]

My name is Sierra Klemme. I'm a Diné woman from the Navajo Nation, and currently I am an intern with Grand Canyon National Park Fisheries Department, as well as a part-time river guide through the canyon. So this summer, I've been splitting my time between Page, Flagstaff, and the Colorado River.

[Meranden]

Nice.

Dang, that's a lot. Well, first of all, have you been to the canyon before this internship?

[Sierra Klemme]

I have, yes. I grew up nearby, and so I spent a lot of my childhood visiting the south rim of the Grand Canyon.

[Meranden]

Nice. But yeah, it's cool that you've been here before. So you mentioned Flagstaff and Page. You did actually grow up in Page, right?

[Sierra Klemme]

Yes, I did. Yeah, I grew up in Page, which is about an hour north of here. It borders Utah and the Navajo Reservation.

Page was established originally because of the construction of the Glen Canyon Dam, which creates the reservoir behind it, known as Lake Powell, and has the Colorado River running below.

[Meranden]

Nice, yeah. I didn't know the meaning behind it.

Yeah, that's cool, because I'm from Tuba City, and we've been there. We go there sometimes, and then we also went there for sports too.

And then speaking of sports, which is what we're here for today, is to talk about the meaning of sports towards Native communities. So through this podcast, we've been able to talk to a lot of different athletes that are from the 11 tribes who call the canyon home, and we've been able to talk to people who did basketball running, some things with equestrian [sports] or horses and things like that, and now we have you doing soccer.

So, would you like to talk a little bit about how you got into soccer or the inspiration behind it?

[Sierra Klemme]

Yeah, there's not a specific moment that I can pinpoint as being inspired when I first started playing soccer.

I think I was like five or six years old, and my parents honestly just signed me up for city league soccer, but it turns out I was naturally pretty good at it and really enjoyed it. So, as the years went on, my love for the sport grew as well as my skill set, and I later found myself playing for the Page High School soccer team, and that is where I found some inspiration for my later soccer career years. There was this girl named Brittany Tso, she was also a Navajo girl, and nobody was playing soccer like her.

It was, yeah, super cool to see her scoring goals left and right, always bringing up team mentality, and yeah, she really set a new standard of sort of what it meant for me to be a soccer player, and I thought it was really cool that this other Native girl was playing soccer, where most people on the reservation in this area play basketball during that season, and so yeah, it was sweet to see her and share that experience.

[Meranden]

Nice, yeah, and in Page, is there a pretty big Diné population there?

[Sierra Klemme]

Yeah, so Page is a little border town, and so a lot of students of Page High School come in from the reservation and surrounding areas, and so yeah, the primary student body is Indigenous youth.

[Meranden]

Nice, that's cool.

I can kind of relate with the soccer, like growing up, they used to have like a little, I forgot what it's called, but when we were smaller, we used to play soccer too, and I remember when we were really small, like when you play, like not a lot of kids know how to play super well, and they just like kick your shin guards like really hard.

I remember that, like getting kicked like really hard, and then I also got like, one time a ball hit me in the stomach really hard, and it's like, that really knocks the wind out of you.

[Sierra Klemme]

Right, yeah, I've had it all, kicked shins, black eyes.

[Meranden]

Really?

[Sierra Klemme]

Worth it, but yeah.

[Meranden]

Yeah, so like when you did play in high school, what were some of the teams that you played? Was it like usually on the reservation, or was it like out of, in the Valley or anything like that? Like who did you play against?

[Sierra Klemme]

It was mainly schools down in Flagstaff and the Phoenix area that were sort of on our same size level. There was not really any schools on the reservation that had girls’ soccer teams, specifically girls’ soccer teams, and so yeah, there was a lot of traveling to play this sport.

[Meranden]

Nice, yeah, and then like when you played soccer in high school, did you have any plans to play after high school?

[Sierra Klemme]

When I first started, I didn't know that I would want to play later on, but unfortunately in high school, I suffered a pretty serious knee injury, and so I only got to play three out of the four years of high school, and I kind of felt like I wasn't ready to be done yet, and so yeah, I did decide to pursue soccer after high school at a collegiate level.

However, school was more important to me, and so I chose school first and then decided to figure out how I could still play soccer, and I tried out for a team, didn't make it, and then I wound up playing for a club team at the University of Colorado in Colorado Springs, and so I played for about two years for them, and we would travel within Colorado playing other schools.

[Meranden]

Nice.

Is there anybody in your family who also played soccer?

[Sierra Klemme]

Not in my like immediate family, but I did have a cousin who played in high school as a defender, and you know, got a lot of accolades and everything, and also kind of inspired me and made me want to do that as well, and luckily I was a forward, a striker, and so we got to shine in our different areas.

[Meranden]

Nice.

[Sierra Klemme]

But yeah, it was pretty good.

[Meranden]

As someone that doesn't really understand soccer like positions, what does a forward do? Is it much like like basketball who like shoots, or like what's the, what does a forward do?

[Sierra Klemme]

Exactly, yeah, pretty much that. The forward is up at the top of the field trying to be available to score goals and everything.

[Meranden]

Nice, cool.

Much like how a forward is important to the soccer, the game of soccer, athletics plays a really important role to a lot of our Native communities. They've been able to help us shine and show that we are here and we can do just as much as anyone else could. What do athletics or sports mean to your Native community, like your own Page community, also your Diné community as well?

[Sierra Klemme]

So growing up in Page, there wasn't always a lot going on, and honestly sometimes sporting events were the highlights of the week, and so it was a unique opportunity to bring the community together, whether that was a basketball game, a football game, sometimes soccer games, not always, but yeah, it was a great way to be able to celebrate the athlete's individuality, but also support each other in coming together as a team and a community to sort of celebrate the joy, the happiness of motion, and so yeah, I think it really created a lot of deep relationships amongst people living their day-to-day lives together in a really bonded community way.

[Meranden]

Nice, yeah, I think it does bring a sense of community, allows you to meet a lot of different people, and also gives you the opportunity to try something new and pass it on to your next destination, like you brought it on to college, allowed you to meet more people I bet through playing club, so that's really cool to see how it is a highlight in your Page community.

Speaking of the importance of the sports and how it brings community, we've been able to highlight Indigenous athletes in sports, but also in a different way that you've been able to shine. You know, you said Page is near Lake Powell, which then is also connected to the Colorado River itself.

You have experience as a river guide, so you mentioned that you were or have been a river guide with the Wilderness River Adventures. Would you kind of like to speak more on what this experience has been like?

[Sierra Klemme]

Absolutely, yes, I have been a Grand Canyon river guide for about the past six years now. Yeah, but seven years ago, I actually got to go down the river for the very first time with two of my best friends from my childhood from Page, and from the minute that we set off on the trip, I knew it was somewhere that I really wanted to be, and so yeah, through guiding down in the Grand [Canyon], I've gotten to learn a better sense of myself through this wonderful experience getting to know the Grand Canyon.

[Meranden]

Nice, yeah. Are there many Indigenous river guides that you've met through this past seven, six years you've been doing this?

[Sierra Klemme]

What a great question. I'm so glad that you brought this up.

Well, yes, I'm a part of this really big guiding community down within the Grand Canyon. I'm a part of only a handful of other Native [American] river guides down within the canyon. There's not a super large representation of Indigenous perspectives down there.

[Meranden]

Yeah, I think there is a lot of Indigenous people who do go down on the river, like I know the other intern I work with, Lakin, he had the opportunity to go on the river.

There's also Grand Canyon Trust who has like youth river trips with Indigenous people, but they don't really have the [Native American] river guides there, so it's really cool that you're one of the few who are doing that, but I hope this number continues to grow.

However, by being one of the few, what does it mean to represent your tribe by being one of the few Native river guides?

[Sierra Klemme]

Yeah, first I want to acknowledge that you're totally right.

There is an ever-growing population of Indigenous people coming down the river, but those getting to work down there is still quite small, and I think what it means to me to be an Indigenous representative down there is that I get to create these narratives.

When I first started, I didn't realize how big of an impact it was of me just being down there was, and so now that years have gone on and I've learned more about it, I understand the importance of being down there, and oftentimes when we go to these ancestral sites or talk about ancient people, it's always referred to in the past, and so being able to be down there, I get to bring it back to the point that there are still 11 tribes that call this place home and hold this place so sacred and high up in their spirits, and that we are still here today and still experiencing the canyon in our own way.

Yeah, we've been able to, personally, I've been able to learn a lot about things that are sacred and also like things you can share, and then also just being able to emphasize to visitors how important it is, not just the river itself but the canyon as well, just like to take care of it like your own home.

[Meranden]

So you being able to do your work as an Indigenous river guide means a lot, and we're really grateful that we have you down there because you're able to share that knowledge to those people who might not know it, and like they'll be able to share it with whoever they encounter who may be going down to the river as well.

I know there's also seminars that these different river companies do to make sure that whoever's on the river also acknowledge that this is really sacred to us and there's places they shouldn't go to, so that's really important for them to share, and I'm sure you do that as well, which once again is really, really good that you do that for us.

Is there any like really good highlights from being on the river that you would like to share, like any silly moments or any sites you've been to or yeah, just anything down in the river that you like to highlight that you want to share about the river?

[Sierra Klemme]

Gosh, where do I begin? There's so many things down there that have brought so many good memories, tough memories too, but all in all creating such great experiences.

Earlier this year through my internship, it's a different sort of trip than I've become accustomed to with the day-to-day guiding and everything.

We got to spend some time, we get to stop and spend time in areas for a few days, and so I got to spend a couple hours at Shinumo Creek and enjoy the pool at the bottom of this beautiful little waterfall created by a chalk stone in the wall, and yeah, it was so wonderful just to watch the different shades of the sun as it went over and where the light was and how the temperature of the pool changed. It was quite special to be able to watch the canyon change in those small ways.

[Meranden]

Yeah, that's cool. This isn't podcast related, but I have an evening program similar to this, and I do a segment about the river, and it talks about the Humpback Chub, and it's just talking about like their different tributaries, and I remember hearing Shinumo Creek, but yeah, that's really cool.

I unfortunately can't go in the river because as a Hopi lady you're not allowed to go down there, so it's really cool that you are fortunate to be able to go down there.

Same with Kelli. She is going tomorrow, and then she'll be on the river for a couple days, so it's really nice that you guys are able to do that and then share your knowledge, but anyways, back to this. Yeah, it's really cool, and you mentioned your internship.

That's something that you're doing right now, and you work as an intern at the Grand Canyon. What does your work entail?

[Sierra Klemme]

So this summer I am interning for the fisheries department at the Grand Canyon National Park, and the internship came up so seamlessly. It was an opportunity I couldn't pass up, and so I, yeah, like I said, I'm working with the fisheries department with several different project leads who each have slightly different objectives, but their overarching goal is to restore native fish back into the ecosystem, into the river ecosystem.

You mentioned before, yeah, the native fish, the Humpback Chub, and that is one specific species that is really at the top of the priority list for these restoration efforts, and over the past couple years with these efforts, the Humpback Chub has actually been declassified from endangered to just threatened, and so yeah, as my degree was in hydrology and ecological restoration, and so I was really excited to come be a part of restoration efforts that were truly making a positive difference down within the Grand Canyon.

[Meranden]

Nice. What have been some of your favorite projects so far with this internship?

[Sierra Klemme]

So far I've been really excited to be a part of the Rapid Response Initiative, which was a project created after they found smallmouth bass within the river corridor.

Yeah, smallmouth bass is an extremely aggressive, invasive fish, and the reservoir levels were so low a few years ago that the water, the temperature of the river really warmed up quite significantly that these fish were able to come through the dam and live and just create all sorts of havoc on these native fish populations, and so there was a response to monitor and, you know, kind of eliminate these smallmouth bass, and so the project's working primarily in the first 10 miles.

The Grand Canyon [National] Park is working the first 10 miles, and then Glen Canyon National, or Glen Canyon is working from Lees Ferry up to the dam, and so yeah, we use different fishing methods to capture these fish. So that has been something I've been pretty stoked about, and I have a few other things, but yeah. It looks like you have something to say.

[Meranden]

Yeah, well this is, you can continue with the favorite projects, another one, but it's really cool because my program, we do talk about the smallmouth bass and like how bad it is. I just wanted to interrupt because of that, because I know like a lot of what you're saying, it's cool because you're like the, you're like the expert on it, and it's cool to hear like the research I'm doing on it and like telling the public is true, like you're saying everything that I'm saying, so that's really cool.

But yeah, the humpback chub, I like to highlight it and talk about it, and I also talked about like the water levels and then the smallmouth bass coming in, but yeah, it's just cool because I'm like, I'm saying all the right stuff.

[Sierra Klemme]

Spread the word. Reservoir levels are low. The water's getting warmer.

[Meranden]

Yeah, but besides that, is there any other favorite projects that you would like to highlight about your internship?

[Sierra Klemme]

This fall, there was supposed to be a project, the Bright Angel Creek invasive trout removal efforts, and so that's where a team goes into Bright Angel Creek from the North Rim and, you know, finds all these invasive trouts to remove, but unfortunately due to the fire on the North Rim and the unforeseen effects of it, that program has to go on pause for safety effects.

So yeah, I was looking forward to that, getting to spend time within the corridor, but overall, it's been really fun getting to go on these larger native fish monitoring trips down the whole river because, like I mentioned before, getting to spend time, spend more time in these different areas that I don't usually get to has been a personal favorite of mine.

[Meranden]

Yeah, it's really cool because you're one of the very tiny, tiny population who has been inside the river, so it's cool that you've been doing that, and how long is your internship for?

[Sierra Klemme]

This internship, I started in May [2025] and I will be going into December [2025].

Yeah, I've gotten to work in a few of my commercial river trips as well over the summer, which has allowed me to still progress in that career path as well, so it's been a, it's been a nice balance being able to advance in my scientific career as well as my boating career. [Meranden]

Yeah, as you mentioned, like, it's been able to help you dive into those kind of different places. This kind of takes me into the next question of how has this internship, you know, provided pathways to learn more about your culture or the 11 tribes that call the canyon home?

[Sierra Klemme]

Surprisingly, it has taught me a bit more about how the different tribes connect to specifically the fish within the ecosystem, and so they, the fisheries department communicates with the different tribes about beneficial uses of all of the invasive species that they're able to harvest.

And so once, like, specifically for the rainbow and brown trout are harvested, they send them to surrounding tribal communities, and they can be used for feasting or for ceremonial practices, and so, yeah, that was really interesting, or I should say a good experience to know that they are working with these tribes to further understand that the fish and the canyon and the people are all connected, that they're not, that they're not independent systems.

[Meranden]

Yeah, that's good to hear the way that things are being used, helping the canyon, the tribes, and the Park Service, like, they're all working together, which is really good.

[Sierra Klemme]

It is, it is really good, and also being a part of this internship, I've gotten to learn about the Tribal Affairs office, who have hosted several really cool events, like one earlier this week was a little ceremony to honor the loss of the North Rim, but also give some positive hope into moving forward, and then it's also connected me with you, Meranden, and what you're doing out here at Desert View and the different events and things that you are all hosting here, so it's been a great way to connect to the tribes and my culture in these ways.

[Meranden]

Yeah, I think the same too, like, being able to meet the Indigenous interns, because I felt like it's just been me and Lakin for quite a while, and having you on, and Derrick?

[Sierra Klemme]

Yes, my counterpart, Derrick.

[Meranden]

Yes, having both of you there, getting to talk with you guys and know where you're from, you're like, oh, that's over there, like, ask your clans and stuff like that, it's really cool to connect in that way, and, like, there's always older people who say, like, “We're so glad we have you, your youth there to be able to talk, and the work you're doing is really good, I just wish that more, there was more who came here,” so, like, I'm really happy to have met you and Derrick and seeing, like, the work you guys are doing, and we're not the only young ones here, so.

Yeah. It's nice that, yeah, we can, we can bond and stuff like that, and we have a few more things coming up, especially, like, this week later on, getting to visit the other national monuments in the area, so that'd be really cool.

But yeah, so that's awesome to hear about your internship, usually with this interview, we like to ask a fun question, so, as we're close to dinner time, well, I guess it is, like, dinner time, if you could have any indigenous food right now, what would it be?

[Sierra Klemme]

Girl. How long do we have? I'm just kidding. Being away from Page, I always miss a mutton sandwich. And yeah, on Saturdays, there's a little flea market, and the one stand we always go to makes these, like, blue corn tortillas, and oh my gosh, it is so good, so yeah, that is the main one I go for.

[Meranden]

Nice. Oh yeah, that's a really good one.

[Sierra Klemme]

Yeah, usually I'm traveling back into Page on Saturdays, and so I always have my dad get it.

[Meranden]

Yeah, nice. Yeah, I love that question, because we always get a lot of different ones, and it's really cool. So yeah, that's our fun question, and as we begin to sort of wrap up this interview now, and for our audience in person, and then those online listening in, what would you like to leave the audience with today?

[Sierra Klemme]

Gosh, you really kept the big questions till the end.

Well, I just want to say thank you, this has been a really great experience, and I guess I would like to share that if something feels bigger than you, don't be afraid to really lean into it, to allow the intensity of those feelings to fully engulf you, and you know, those feelings may be things you feel here at the Grand Canyon, I certainly do, but it is just something I wanted to say, that being a part of something bigger than you is quite wonderful.

[Meranden]

Nice, those are some great words. So we would like to see if there's any questions from the audience right now.

[audience member]

So you mentioned that you went down the river for the first time seven years ago, and it seems like the next year after you became a guide, so I'm curious what that experience was for you the first time you went down the river, and how your relationship with the canyon and the river have changed over time as you continue spending time with it?

[Sierra Klemme]

That's a really great question, because actually the experience has changed quite a bit. My first working trip was actually the summer of 2020, and yeah, exactly, and so the Grand Canyon National Park was actually closed for the majority of that summer, and so when it reopened I was lucky enough to secure two trips with my company, and you know, squeeze them in right before I went back to college, and so yeah, those first few trips were quite special, and you know, quite different than what it is now.

There was a lot of rules in play that aren't quite there anymore, but it was it was still so magical.

My first trip as a passenger, we at my company, we have a fiesta, like Mexican food night, and the lead guide on that trip, she had a whole costume bag, and so yeah, everybody dressed up, it was so fun, and so you know, I come back the next year on my first working trip, and I dress up for Mexican night, and I look at the trip lead, who's a person then, and I was like, oh, where, like, where's the costumes, like, you know, and he was like, I have no idea what you're talking about, and so since then I've always kind of, you know, tried to incorporate, reminding people, especially adults that come down, that it's a space to have fun, that it is, you know, and an experience to remember that we're still children at heart, and to laugh, and to be silly, and to not think so hard about what others are thinking of you, or what you're thinking of yourself, and I think that's just the magic of it all down there.

[Meranden]

That's a good one. I have one, but it's a little more vague, a little vague, but important.

As we have family here in the audience, I'm just curious of, like, do you have any role models or supporters who have helped you get to, get through, you know, your soccer, your river guiding, your internship now, who have been there for some of it or all of it?

Is there anyone that you, like, really would like to acknowledge that have helped you get to where you are today?

[Sierra Klemme]

So many people, and, you know, for each area that you mentioned, I have different people. I think, I think with my river guiding, my parents were somewhat of an inspiration in that they were entrepreneurs, and so, you know, it was a little bit out of the norm of other career paths, and so they were really encouraging to try this, something different, and to enjoy, because, yeah, it's not something I was super exposed to coming from such a small town, you know, you're really taught about, like, the main, or the main career paths of, like, doctor, teacher, that sort of thing, and nobody really talked about natural resources or working in the outdoor industry.

And so, yeah, they've supported me through a lot of these, you know, wild ambitions that I have, and with this internship of all of the Indigenous voices that I've met along the way, I would say I've been an inspiration. I go to this fall event, this fall conference called Women in Water, held by Planet Women, and, yeah, meeting women in the western water industry, hydrology specifically.

They have been really inspiring to just get involved, and to, you know, take up these spaces, and to bring perspective of Indigenous ways, but also to, you know, understand that I belong there as well.

[audience member]

With your experience as an Indigenous woman and a river guide, do you think it's possible to recreate in the canyon, and show it to people from around the world, and still honor the Indigenous tribes that have been here, and do you think there's anything that the park, and the people, and the river companies should be doing differently to make sure that people know and acknowledge all of the people who have been here, and come here before?

[Sierra Klemme]

As an Indigenous woman down in the canyon, and learning more and more about each of the different tribes, and how they are connected to the Grand Canyon, I have sort of navigated ways of sharing respectfully what I can, and what I feel is right about these different tribes, because there's some stories down there that are not mine to tell.

They are, you know, sacred to the tribes, such as Zuni and Hopi, with the Little Colorado, and Havasu [Creek & Falls], with the Havasupai people, but I still try to highlight their resilience living, and being around the Grand Canyon.

I think it's really important to, like I said, circle the conversation back to the modern-day Indigenous people down within the canyon, and in surrounding areas, that they're not just something of the past, and for more people to, you know, understand that their word choices matter, and so using respectful language when they are talking about these people that have called the canyon home for so long is an important way to shift personally.

As far as river companies as a whole in the Grand Canyon National Park System, I think always just creating spaces for them to be present in bigger opportunities is where things really have to start, and allowing them to bring these perspectives for all to understand, and really being open-minded and open-hearted about how we are connected to this place, and we need to treat it as so, and not act as it working, as it, as the Grand Canyon being something that works for us, that we need to live in better harmony with the canyon.

[Meranden]

Alright yeah, I'd like to thank Sierra for being here, for being our guest today.

We appreciate you for sharing your athletic journey, your river guiding, and also your internship. They're all very important and play really important roles to your life and all the people around you, so thank you so much for being here.

[Sierra Klemme]

Yeah, thank you so much, Meranden, and I think the rain has cleared up.

Let's go find some rainbows.

[Ranger Jonah]

Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music.

This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park. To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/grca.

Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon, these being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

Sierra Klemme grew up in Page, AZ and took her soccer endeavors to the University of Colorado which led her to working as an intern at Grand Canyon National Park. Outside of her internship, Sierra has been carving out her career as a river guide. Take a listen as she shares her journey from soccer athlete to river guide and we hope you enjoy!

Episode 10

Kelkiyana Yazzie Speaks (BONUS)

Transcript

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

I worked at Navajo National Monument, and that place honestly has my heart and soul, and it's actually my career goal to go back as superintendent of that park. But for the time being, this opportunity at Grand Canyon happened. It was actually the manager of the Interpretation Rangers.

He was just like, “we need to make this change here at Grand Canyon, and we think you would be a great fit to help us make that happen.”

[Lakin]

Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin.

[Meranden]

And this is Meranden

[Lakin]

Thank you for listening to Season 3, it’s been great interviewing our Indigenous athletes, however we’d like to feature some bonus episodes that highlight Women’s History Month.

[Meranden]

In many Indigenous cultures of this region, matriarchy has been the foundation of our traditions and values that we continue to practice as we did long ago.

[Lakin]

With that being said, we interviewed Kelkiyana Yazzie who works at Grand Canyon National Park under the Tribal Affairs program.

[Meranden]

Kelki started her career as an interpretive ranger at Navajo National Monument near Shonto, Arizona and now continues her efforts to provide Indigenous communities with resources through the National Park Service.

[Lakin]

We’re excited to celebrate Women’s History Month and Kelki’s success in this episode. We hope you enjoy!

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

[Introduces self in Diné]

Hello everyone, my name is Kelkiyana. I go by Kelki for short.

I am the Tribal Program coordinator here at Grand Canyon National Park. So what that is, is it's the tribal liaison, one of the tribal liaisons who work with the [Grand Canyon National] Park’s 11 tribes, which Lakin introduced earlier. But yeah, I'm a member of the Navajo Nation.

My traditional greeting includes my clan. So, (Navajo clan), that means I am of the (speaks Navajo) clan. (Navajo word) translates to Folded Arm People.

I always hope that means a good thing. And then I'm born for (Navajo word), which is my dad's clan. That's to Reed people.

And that actually has Hopi origin down the line. So somewhere in my ancestors, I have Hopi ancestors, Hopi relatives, because that's where that clan originated. But yeah, that's a little bit about me, and we can continue on.

[Lakin]

Yeah, thank you for that introduction, Kelki. So what sparked your interest in the Park Service, and how long have you been an employee for?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah, so this coming year is actually going to be my ninth year with the National Park Service. I started out as an interpretive park ranger, meaning that I give programs for visitors.

And I previously worked at a small park called Navajo National Monument. I don't know if anyone here has heard of it or been there. It's a really small park on the Navajo Nation.

It protects three ancestral cliff-dwelling sites. And I'm actually a fourth-generation park ranger. So the photo behind us here is actually photos of my great-grandfathers, Floyd and Hubert Laughter.

Hubert was one of the first Navajo park rangers at that small park in the 1950s. So it's kind of astounding to me where that park became a park in 1909, but yet it took until the 1950s to hire local Native people in the Park Service. So yeah, he was one of the first Navajo park rangers.

Before that, he was working with the Navajo Nation Police. He's a veteran. And then his brother Floyd there, they're both medicine men, so they conduct ceremonies, healing ceremonies for our local community and our family.

So that's what really sparked my interest in the Park Service. I grew up on the Navajo Nation just five miles from this area. And growing up, I would be on the school bus, drive by it all the time, see all the visitors there.

And I'm just like, what are they doing? It's just a canyon and a bunch of old houses there. I was just like, why are they coming to visit this area? But after high school, I got to do Youth Conservation Corps, which is similar to what Meranden and Lakin are doing with their internships at Desert View. And that gave me the opportunity to work at this park.

And I just saw everyone come from all over the world and have this genuine interest and respect for the landscape, for our people, and our history. So that really reignited in myself my own connection to my culture, my connection to the land, and just started this lifelong passion I have for working with the Park Service. So that's how I ended up working with the park.

[Meranden]

Nice. That's really good. I think it really relates to why we're here as well.

We're here to show that kind of empowerment and be there for our tribes here. Like we mentioned, there's the 11 tribes. I'm Hopi and Navajo and Lakin is Zuni, so we're part of those 11 tribes.

And being able to represent and be here to show that we are here to take care of our land and things like that is really important. So with the number of years you've been here in the Park Service and the generations of park rangers in your family, how do you feel you have served your indigenous community?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah, so a big thing, I'm pretty sure everyone in this room and whoever is listening to the podcast have been to so many National Parks across the country. And when you think about it, you see all these stories, even just looking at these quotes on the wall.

They're all from non-Native people. And that's usually the dominant narrative that's told in these National Parks, is that it's coming from a voice that's newer than the voices that have been here for generations. So that's something that I really want to bring forward is we call it first voice interpretation, meaning that our stories are coming from us as Native people.

And I really want to help share that. So when I first came here to Grand Canyon in 2021, I started working as a ranger here in the village giving programs. And I talked to the other rangers, and I'm like, what's the indigenous programs look like here or the signs? And they're like, ah, it's non-existent.

And that was in 2021. And there's actually signs here in the park. This one actually just got removed back in 2022, where it talks about Native people in the past tense.

On the sign, it says prehistoric people used this trail to hunt and gather. But we're like, what? We're not prehistoric. Like, we're still here.

So that's just something I'm really proud of working with the Park Service today. And this role is to bring our voices to the forefront. And we're not in the past.

We're not past tense. Like, how these dominant narratives have existed. Like, there's that sign if you've been out to Hermit Road.

It's at Powell Memorial. And on that sign, it calls him the first explorer of the Grand Canyon. But we're like, what about the Native people that have been here way before the 1800s? So yeah, that's just a big thing I really want to push forward in helping represent our tribes here at the park.

Because it's our homelands. And it always will be.

[Lakin]

In your introduction, you did mention that you're part of the Tribal Affairs Program and we'd like to know more about the Tribal Affairs Program and what some projects and work you've done and accomplished.

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah, so the Tribal Affairs Program is fairly new. When you go to other National Parks, they really don't have a tribal liaison.

I actually work with two other people. Vincent, who's a member of the Hualapai Tribe, and Rising Buffalo, who's part Arapaho. And we're the only national park out of the 400-plus units in the country that has three people dedicated to tribal affairs.

And usually it's the park's anthropologists or their archaeologists, and it's a collateral duty for them. But here, our superintendent, our park manager, is really dedicated to tribal affairs. It's actually his number one priority as the manager of the park, is to bring these voices forward.

And so that's what the tribal program is, is that we work on various things. And just sharing our voices and our presence that has been here for generations. These are actually from the park's museum collection.

So there's some split twig figurines that have been found along the river corridor. Pottery. This is like the physical aspects of our presence in the canyon.

But we ourselves as tribal people, we have stories through oral history. A lot of tribes, we don't have a written language. If we do, it's fairly new.

So a lot of our stories and traditions are passed down through oral history, or through pottery, or pictographs and petroglyphs. Here throughout Grand Canyon, it's over 200 miles long, and there's so many ancestral sites and pictograph and petroglyph panels along the way. But a pictograph is painted onto a rock wall with a plant or mineral dye, and a petroglyph is etched into the rock wall with a sharp object.

But yeah, as a tribal program, we're really just trying to bring those voices forward and make it known that this canyon's a living landscape. And a big part of my job is just helping us connect, reconnect to the landscape. Because just like every national park, we do have that story of forced removal.

It happened back in the 1920s. The Park Service forcibly removed the Havasupai people from what's now known as Havasupai Gardens to make this a national park. So we're doing what we can to help reconnect that and welcome tribes back to this area, including supporting pilgrimages for ceremonial plant gathering, that the park is free for tribes because we shouldn't have to pay to access our homelands, supporting first voice interpretation.

Like I mentioned, the stories being told from Native people ourselves. This is a photo of some Havasupai working on the signage down at Havasupai Gardens from their own words. The cultural demonstration program is another example of that for people to share their crafts here.

The Grand Canyon Speaks program, which we're doing right now. This is a little different. We usually do it out at Desert View at the amphitheater there.

But it's a little chilly. Supporting tribes coming to the park and seeing what's in the museum collections. One of the curators, Colleen there, she was just like, wow, I didn't know that about this.

The tribes were talking about the different artifacts there and she was just learning so much new stuff. Supporting tribal internships. This is a photo from our bison.

If you didn't know, we have bison on the North Rim. So we supported live capture and transfer of bison to the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe. Since this project started, we've helped transfer 382 bison to tribal lands.

Working with the Intertribal Working Group, of course. That's really important that this working group is made up of tribal community members. And we're the team that helps make it happen.

What they want to see in the park. So those are a couple of examples.

[Meranden]

That's more than a couple.

That's so cool. This might be an obvious question just based on how you answered this one. There's so many national parks that are around here.

You were able to work close to home and now you're at Grand Canyon. What made you choose Grand Canyon and what is the significance of Grand Canyon to you?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

That's a great question. Like I mentioned earlier, I worked at Navajo National Monument.

That place honestly has my heart and soul. It's actually my career goal to go back as superintendent of that park. But for the time being, this opportunity at Grand Canyon happened.

It was actually the manager of the interpretation rangers. He was just like, we need to make this change here at Grand Canyon. And we think you would be a great fit to help us make that happen.

So that's how I ended up here. It helped me develop in my career. Because at my old park, I was stuck as a seasonal park ranger.

But here I was able to get a permanent position. But my own connection to the Grand Canyon, Navajo and the Navajo culture. We have many, many stories that tie back to it.

I got to join a river trip with the Navajo Nation a couple years ago. And we were down in the canyon and saw old sheep campsites. Where Navajo families would be camping and tending to their livestock down there.

So yeah, we just have this long history and tie to the Grand Canyon. And of course the Colorado River itself. If you ever get an opportunity to go down there into the river, it's a whole other world.

And you can truly feel the spiritual presence down there. So that's how I connect to the Grand Canyon. Is spiritually living here. I've lived here for a couple years now. And I never get tired of that view. I always feel like I see it for the first time every time I look at it.

We're very, very blessed to have that here. And for us to be able to see it. And yeah, just be here in its presence.

[Lakin]

And we look forward to you fulfilling those aspirations. And continuing to inspire us and also the indigenous communities at large. So the next question is, as an Indigenous woman, what does Women's History Month mean to you?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah, so Women's History Month is very important to me.

Especially as a Navajo woman because our culture is very matrilineal. Meaning that a lot of our practices, our traditions, even where we live, it's all done through the female side. And that just shows how sacred and how vital and important our Navajo people hold females and women.

I introduced my clans at the beginning. And that's how we continue and pass on the clans. If I ever have kids in the future, my first clan that Folded Arm People one will pass down to them.

That's my mom's clan, that's my grandma's clan, and so on. So having something like Women's History Month, it really kind of shines like that spotlight on our stories as women and females. Because usually, we just do so much that people may not realize.

So I think that's why it's really important to me. And some of the most important people in my life are women. And I think it's really important to show that appreciation to us as females.

[Meranden]

Yeah, definitely. And speaking of those inspirational and very important women in your life, is there a number of them that mean a lot to you? And is there specific names that you wanted to mention on that?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah, so one being my mom. My mom's actually here today.

She's done so much. She's just the most hardworking person I know. And she's my favorite person who's just really taught me a lot.

And I really carry a lot with that with me. And she was diagnosed with cancer a couple years ago. And just seeing that challenge and seeing her go through that really gave me a lot of strength as well.

And another important person was my aunt Heather. Unfortunately, she lost her battle to colon cancer back in 2022. And yeah, it's just tough to see these health challenges come to our communities like this.

And yeah, see the strength and perseverance that people like my mom and my aunt Heather had. Other people would be my sister. Her name's Keline.

She just moved to San Diego. I already miss her. She used to live in Flagstaff, which is pretty close. And honestly, in my career-wise, this is the only picture I was able to include, but it's my mentor. Her name's Kalinda Blacksheep. She worked at my old park for over 20 years.

And she came here to Grand Canyon for a while. And now she's currently a superintendent, a park manager of Pipe Springs National Monument. I don't know if anyone's been there, but it's up north by Fredonia and that area at Kanab.

But yeah, it was just really cool to have a mentor. We really need that in this line of work, especially working for the federal government, you may realize. So challenges come with that line of work.

And having someone who looks like you and has your same similar lived experiences in this field of work is really important to just go to and lean on to be able to achieve, yeah, our career goals and where we would like to go. And then I would say another important person and people is our youth, like Meranden. She reached out to me a couple years ago through social media on Instagram when she was still a university student.

And she's just like, hey, I want to get a career at the Park Service. And, like, I really want to do, like, what you're doing is, like, telling these stories of Native people. So we developed a relationship, a friendship over that.

And I'm really, really proud to see her here at the Grand Canyon just, like, sending me a DM, a direct message over Instagram to this, like, where you get to do this interview and all these awesome programs and doing Native American Heritage Month and all those events. So, yeah.

[Meranden]

Yeah, I was going to say that, too.

It was just, like, a simple DM of, like, it was just, like, saying, like, hey, I'm a park my major was parks, recreation, and sports management. And I knew I wanted to be a park ranger. And then there was a post about Kelki that was, like, you got an award.

And I was like, okay, wait, I need to look up her name. So I looked you up on Google. And then I found your Insta.

And I DM’d you. And then I just told you, like, this is my passion. And I just want to be like you.

So then we kind of sparked this whole thing. And that's the whole thing of, like, scheduling this is, like, we came a long way. And we're here now.

And it's crazy, like, how just a simple thing like that can go to this. Like, when I first met her, like, I used to work for Grand Canyon Trust as an intern. And Jack was my supervisor.

And I met Kelki that way. And it's, like, I thought she was a celebrity when I first saw her. It was really, really cool. And I just want to thank mom for everything that you've done. And, like, you've raised her so well. And, like, she's literally the reason why I'm here today.

She's just inspired me so much. So I'm really grateful that you're here and you're able to talk to me. And this means a lot. So, yeah, I wanted to say that.

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Oh, thank you.

[Lakin]

And it's also great that we get to see you fulfill that leadership and mentor role for the next generation.

So we like to continue to see those kind of seeds and fruition develop over time. But now we like to get into a fun question.

So our question for you is, what's your favorite indigenous food?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

So, alright, has anyone been out towards Cameron? It's on the east side of the park. But if you haven't and if you have time, you can take the long way out of the park. And there's a little community called Cameron.

And there's a trading post there. And my favorite thing to get there is the Navajo beef stew and fry bread. So that's my favorite thing.

Like if I had like a last meal kind of thing, that would be it. Other than that, we have flea markets or swap meets or whatever you want to call it on the reservation. The one in Tuba City is every Friday.

So if you ever find yourself in the Tuba City area on Fridays, they have a lot of local vendors there selling roast mutton sandwiches. So it's a fry bread with roast mutton, potatoes, carrots, chili. It's so good.

But that would be my next favorite indigenous food.

[Meranden]

Nice. Yeah, we try to ask something like that every time because we're really big foodies.

So, yeah, it's always funny.

So we're getting to the end of this. We would like to open up to questions in just a little bit.

But as we wrap up here, is there anything that you would like to leave the audience with?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah, so just thank you to every single one of you who is here. And, of course, shout out to the people listening on the podcast. And, yeah, it's just really important.

This is so rare, but we're working really hard to not make it a rare occurrence. And we're really hoping to see this across the Park Service itself. If you've ever been to Glacier [National Park], they do have like a Native America Speaks program.

Yosemite [National Park] has cultural demonstrators. So we're really trying to make ourselves known. And I just really encourage everyone here, when you go to your next park, your next destination, even where you're coming from, just thinking about what indigenous knowledge or stories exist where you're at.

You know, even just thinking internationally, there might be some people from not in the United States here. I got to visit Ireland, Northern Ireland a couple years ago and the Giant's Causeway up in Northern Ireland. Like they have their own folktales about places like that.

So I just really encourage people to learn these old stories of these places, of where you're going or where you're from. And I actually have a short video here. I think it's like a minute and a half long.

But where Meranden and Lakin's coming from, it's a place called Desert View. It's where the Watchtower is. If you've been out there, you may have seen a lot of construction going on.

And what's happening is an intertribal welcome center. So you may have noticed while you've been visiting Grand Canyon, you go to the village where all the hotels are. You see Hopi House, but that's a gift shop.

And then we always get asked, like, where can we learn more about Native people? And we don't have a place for it. But anyway, the intertribal welcome center is going to be out at Desert View. It was supposed to debut like a couple years ago, but, you know, the pandemic happened.

And working with tribes, especially 11 of them, it's really hard to agree on one thing amongst ourselves. So we went through this process with every single 11 tribe, and everything that's there that you'll see was designed by them. And it was picked by them, and it was wanted by them.

So I really hope you get the chance to come back in the future. We're hoping for a ribbon cutting at the end of this year. But I also said that the same thing last year at this time.

But I think for sure we're finalizing the exhibit panels and everything. So if you get a chance to come back to the east side of the park, Desert View, you'll see our new tribal welcome center there. And it's one of the first of its kind in the entire National Park Service.

And we're, again, really hoping that more parks will follow suit. But yeah, we're still here, despite what that sign at the Bright Angel Trailhead used to say, calling us prehistoric. That's honestly, like, not true.

Like, we're here. We're people. And again, we've always had this connection to the landscape, and we continue to do so.

And we will, yeah, always be here and doing what we can to have our voices heard and our connections supported. And there's this quote from a Navajo woman I usually like to end with, where she says, the canyon's a sacred space. You only go there with prayers in your heart, purpose in your steps, and then you leave it the way you found it.

So I really hope everyone here has a safe and respectful visit. And, yeah, we usually just, like, treat this place like you would your own home or your home of a loved one, because it's our home. Ahéhee’, thank you.

[Meranden]

Thank you so much, Kelki. Before we do wrap everything up, we just want to ask the crowd and audience if anyone has any questions.

[Audience member]

Thank you.

I'd actually like to ask two quick questions. The first is I want to give a shout-out to Mesa Verde, which is right near where I live in southwest Colorado. And the question that I have that relates to that is Mesa Verde is known for its cliff dwellings.

And I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about whether there were ever cliff dwellings here or whether there may still be and they're just not really available to the public. And then the other question, totally different subject, is you guys have been mostly talking about the National Park Service. We have the Bureau of Indian Affairs within the Department of Interior.

It supposedly interfaces with 574 nationally or federally recognized Indigenous Peoples groups. And I'm just wondering if you work with BIA or what you think of them and how that works and all that sort of stuff.

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah, thank you for your questions. So with the cliff dwelling one, yeah, there's a lot of ancestral sites along here. We actually have some that are up on the south rim here.

So there's one called Tusayan Archeological Site or Tusayan Ancestral Site. That's along the Desert View Drive. So that one is there.

And then, yeah, there's several alcoves in the canyon that have cliff dwelling sites. A popular one is called Nankoweap. So if you ever get to do a Colorado River trip, it's a popular hike that people go up to.

There are granaries up there. But yeah, these cliff dwellings, if you don't know what I'm talking about, are those like sandstone houses in the cliff. So a lot of them, people did live inside.

We categorized them as living rooms. There's granaries. There's kivas, which is a name for a ceremonial space.

And a lot of those sites we like to refrain from calling ruins or abandoned just because today, us as Native people, we still have living connections to them. Even though they're not physically occupied by people today, we still have a spiritual connection to them. And a lot of our tribal members who visit these sites, they usually leave prayers and offerings at these locations just to acknowledge where we come from and to honor that.

Because without our ancestors, without that space that helped our people survive, yeah, we wouldn't be here today. So it's really important we acknowledge our past. It's very, very much in the present for us.

So yeah, there's lots of cliff dwellings here. For your second question with BIA, yeah, it is part of the Department of Interior, which National Park Service is as well. My dad actually works for the BIA, who's here too.

And so as far as us directly, I don't think we work with BIA directly. There is that opportunity because our current Deputy Superintendent, Brian Drapeau, he used to work for BIA with the Education Department, working with tribal schools. And a goal of his is to have tribal schools, like students from there, come here to work in the park.

So that's a dream of his, and we really want to help make that happen. It doesn't have to be a BIA school. It could be any tribal college where we want to support people there and get them jobs and employment here in the park.

So there is definitely potential for that.

[Audience member]

When did you start working at the Grand Canyon?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah, I started working here, 2021? Gosh, these years are going by fast. So it's going to be four years.

Yeah. What grade are you in? You're in third grade? Did you go to preschool? So when you're in preschool, that's when I started working here.

[Audience member]

What would be the hardest part of your job?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

The hardest part, I would say is, that's a really good question.

There's a lot. But I think I'll go with, like I mentioned earlier, working with the different tribes. So, you know, we're all different people.

We have different beliefs and different ways we all grew up. And so say, so I'm Navajo, and then I'll pick on Lakin, Zuni. He's from another tribe called Zuni.

And say we are designing this medallion for the [Intertribal] Welcome Center that the video just showed. And then there's something in there with water, and Lakin was like, hey, I want it in this way, the Zuni design. But I'm Navajo, and I'm like, oh, I want it like Navajo design.

So that was a big complication in working with tribes, is that we want different things to help represent us. So I would say that that's one of our biggest challenges, working in this position. And then when I was a park ranger, like giving programs, it was answering the same question all the time.

Which is like, where's the bathroom? Where's Mather point? So, yeah. So thank you for your question.

[Audience member]

I had two questions.

One is, I know you mentioned in 2021, they started updating the language and even adding more Natives. And that's pretty recent. So what are the biggest obstacles in getting your voices into the forefront? And as a public or non-American indigenous, how can we help in getting your voices into the forefront?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

That's a really, really great question.

Yeah, I think one of our biggest challenges is just the bureaucratic process of the federal government. Things move at such a snail pace, honestly. Like that sign that I showed earlier, it got removed right before the Havasupai Gardens renaming ceremony in 2022.

And we wanted to replace it with another sign. But if you go there today, there's no sign at all. There's nothing there.

So I would say it's like the pacing of these projects we're trying to do. Which is understandable, because, you know, there's a lot that ties into it. But lately, we've been working a lot with the Grand Canyon Conservancy, who is the park's official nonprofit partner.

And they provide a lot of funding that the federal government can't. They have donors, and they actually got like a half a million dollars. I might be wrong, but like a lot of money, we'll say, to help fund indigenous-focused projects here in the park.

So that funding will really help us move projects along and get that accomplished. And then as yourself, as a visiting member of the public, to help with these efforts. So I did a research project, a thesis for my graduate program, where I got to interview indigenous people all the way south in Tucson, all the way up north to Montana, like across the board. And I asked them how they wanted to be represented in national parks. That's what my thesis was focused on.

And a common thing that they said back to me is like, we just want to be mentioned, or we just want to be asked about. So I think that would really help if, say, you go to another national park, asking what their tribes are. Like, whose homelands are these? And getting that conversation, just a regular part of, yeah, the conversation that our park rangers provide.

Making us a part of, yeah, everyday topics. And I think the more that the visitors want to learn about our native people, the more you're going to see that information about us out there. So asking those questions wherever you're going, I would say, is a really big help.

Another is learning from tribes themselves. We're surrounded by three tribal reservations, Havasupai. Everyone's heard of the Skywalk, right? The glass platform over the Grand Canyon.

That's actually run by the Hualapai tribe. So I would say supporting tribal tourism. So visiting Grand Canyon West.

You see those turquoise blue waterfalls in the Grand Canyon? That's the Havasupai tribe. They're the ones who issue those backpacking permits. So supporting that.

Navajo Nation, you've probably heard of Antelope Canyon and Monument Valley. Those are all Navajo tribal parks. So I would really encourage visiting those places.

I would say 99, if not 100 percent of the time, people giving those tours are from the area and are tribal members themselves. So yeah, that would be my advice.

[Audience member]

I have about two questions.

My first question is, where is the majority of the tribes in the Grand Canyon? Like in the north, west, south, or east?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Okay, yeah, that's a great question. Which state are you from?

[Audience member]

I'm from Washington, D.C.

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I was going to say, I was going to compare it to state size.

Washington, D.C. would be very tiny compared to this. But Arizona is a really big place. Did you go to Phoenix?

[Audience member]

Yeah, we flew into Phoenix.

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Okay, yeah. It was a long drive to get here, huh?

[Audience member]

Yeah.

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah.

So that area between Phoenix and us, that's where Native people were and still are today. But then after the place became a country and Native people were being relocated, that's where our modern-day reservations are. And then to our east, so going back towards where Washington, D.C. is, we have the Navajo Nation and the Hopi.

And then if you go towards New Mexico, there's Zuni. And then if you're looking at the Grand Canyon, say if you go tomorrow and you look across the canyon, there's the Paiutes. So there's different bands.

There's the Moapa Paiutes, Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, Kaibab, Las Vegas, San Juan Southern Paiute, who are all on that side across the canyon. So does that help? Does that make sense? Alright. But, yeah, that's where our tribes are today.

But we consider the entire Grand Canyon our home. And the Havasupai people actually live on the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Did you see how big it is? They actually live all the way at the bottom.

They don't have cars. What they do is either fly in by helicopter, or they hike, or they have little ATVs like four-tracks. But, yeah, there's a thriving community who lives at the bottom of the Grand Canyon today.

I think about 90 miles to the west of us is their reservation. So, yeah, that's where our Native people are today. So thank you for your question.

[Audience member]

And for my second question, do you guys have, like, any Native clothing?

[Kelkiyana Yazzie]

Yeah. So that's what Lakin, Meranden, and myself are wearing. I'll give you a chance to answer that.

But with Navajo, a very popular thing we wear is turquoise. So turquoise is usually worn for protection for ourselves. And we usually wear some type of turquoise on us at all times because we never know when our time in the physical world is up because this helps with our passage to the next phase of life, which is in the spiritual world.

And then this is a squash blossom here. So this is very popular we worn with us. We have a concho belt.

This is just like a regular belt with more sterling silver and turquoise. Women, we usually wear a skirt. I'm wearing my National Park skirt today.

And then we have moccasins here that are usually made from deer, from the deer hide. So you probably might have seen some deer while you were in the park, but we use that to wear on our feet. But Meranden, I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about what you're wearing.

[Meranden]

Yeah, ours is a little similar. We usually wear dresses or skirts. And none of this stuff is just because we want to.

Everything has a meaning. So there's a certain reason why the red is on top and the green is here, why this is fringed like this, or the strings are a certain way like this, or why this one's out and this one's not. Everything has a meaning of why it's like that.

And we also have moccasins too. Mine are white, though. They're like fully white.

And then I have earrings. We usually wear earrings, necklaces, bracelets. And we also wear a lot of different kind of, not just turquoise, but a lot of different stones.

So I don't know if you want to say anything else, Lakin.

[Lakin]

Yeah, I'll just talk about my necklace because I didn't wear my full fit today. So, like I said, I'm from Zuni, and a big part of our jewelry is putting shells, seashells.

So we call them shodonne or shodo:we, which is plural, because a long time ago the rain priests would make a pilgrimage down to the Gulf of California, and they would collect these seashells. And they would put turquoise on top, and then the jet and mother of pearl, and these black and white lines. They can either resemble a rainbow or a pattern that resembles life and death, kind of that pattern.

It's popular among a lot of the Puebloan jewelry, such as Santo Domingo.

[Audience member]

So do you guys have a different guest every time?

[Meranden]

Yeah, we do. That's actually a great segway, because we actually have the next one with Kelli Jones, who is actually at the door over there.

We work with her at Desert View as well. So we have these Grand Canyon Speaks every now and then. We barely started with Kelki’s today.

It's the first one for the year. And then next week we have Kelli's. So, yeah, it's a good question.

Is there any more questions? Okay. So, yeah, thank you so much, Kelki, for being here today. We can give Kelki a round of applause.

[Ranger Jonah]

Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal, lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices, visit www.nps.gov/GRCA. Here at Grand Canyon National Park, we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai Tribe, the Hualapai Tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi Tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute Tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe.

We’re excited to highlighted Kelkiyana Yazzie (Diné) who works at Grand Canyon National Park under the Tribal Affairs program. She started her career as an interpretive ranger at Navajo National Monument and now continues her efforts to provide Indigenous communities with resources through the National Park Service. Kelki also emphasizes the role that women fulfil in her culture and mentions several women who’ve inspired her journey. Join us as we celebrate Women’s History Month in this episode and enjoy!

Episode 11

Kelli Jones Speaks (BONUS)

Transcript

[Kelli Jones]

I learned more about my cultural identity while working here from the affiliated tribes and my affiliated tribe and there's also great people who do work here that also empowers me to learn more about myself. So it's just learning from the people who are taking care of these places that is part of our ancestors and I thought that this is a place to be for sure.

[Meranden]

Hello, welcome to Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Meranden.

[Lakin]

And this is Lakin.

[Meranden]

Although we have been highlighting some amazing athletes, we wanted to provide a second bonus episode for this season. March is Women's History Month so we decided to highlight two indigenous women park rangers who work at Grand Canyon National Park.

[Lakin]

This episode features Kelli Jones, a Diné Park ranger from Rock Point, Arizona. She talks about the different roles she fulfilled to get to where she is today and how she is bringing in more indigenous representation for the community and thousands of visitors of Grand Canyon.

[Meranden]

Kelli is actually one of the rangers we work with at Desert View and has provided us with guidance throughout our internships, especially working with tribal members.

[Lakin]

As we stick to the theme of Women's History Month, Kelli also shares some inspirational women in her life and the important roles they play in her culture.

[Meranden]

This was an emotional interview for me so just a fair warning to our listeners.

[Lakin]

Thank you for tuning in to season 3 and here is Kelli Jones.

[Kelli Jones]

(Introduces self in Navajo)

Hello, my relatives and my people. My name is Kelli Jones. I am the Tangle Clan, born for the Towering House people and this is who I am as a Navajo woman.

So yeah and I'm really excited to, you know, for this interview have Meranden know a little bit more about me. I think that there was a lot of things that once you started your internship we just kind of rolled into Native American Heritage Month so I'm really excited for this interview.

[Meranden]

Yeah, me too and if you guys didn't notice like in our clans, my second clan is Kiyaa'aanii and hers is Kiyaa'aanii so we're related like immediately once we met each other we knew like we're related which is really cool. So as we're talking about your experience living here in the in Arizona and working in the Park Service, what sparked your interest to work here and how long have you been an employee for?

[Kelli Jones]

Yeah, I actually have a slide that kind of just talks a little bit about kind of my my job and how I got here to Grand Canyon. I'm actually from Rock Point, Arizona which is a very small community in the middle of the Navajo Nation. All we have is just literally a gas station and I think our community is even smaller than Grand Canyon here which is interesting because the Grand Canyon is about two to three thousand people living here but it's smaller than that.

So I actually graduated from Fort Lewis College which is an amazing college where I met a lot of great indigenous people that are actually doing a lot in their communities as well. So Fort Lewis College is within the Four Corners region. It's actually in Durango, Colorado but it's a place where that college offers free tuition to Native Americans.

I took that advantage to you know pursue my college in that area and I didn't know what to do to be honest when I went right after high school. I was like what do I want to do? I want to become a dentist.

So I started going to biology and I did really bad in school with biology and I went to my advisor. I'm like this is not for me and she was like what what do you enjoy? And I was like I enjoy the outdoors.

I played volleyball and basketball so I was really active in my high school years. I am 5'10 so it's pretty tall Navajo to see in my community but I really enjoyed just being outdoors and that kind of pursued me into exercise science. I wanted to go into a field where I can help my community out fighting epidemic diseases such as diabetes, nutrition, you know getting back to our ancestral sovereign foods.

So that was kind of my goal when I went to college was actually focusing on getting the youth outdoors and something in that degree also helped me out to get an internship at Southwest Conservation Corps. I never knew anything about conservation corps in high school or even in college until one of my friends from college actually works for the Southwest Conservation Corps through an administration I guess you can say background and this Corps was actually having a hard time trying to find indigenous young adults to do internships at national parks. So he knew me and he was like I think you would love this job.

This job is at Mesa Verde National Park and I was like sure why not? So that kind of started me into opening the doors to conservation world and then just barely starting knowing anything. So that was just something that I learned and I thought that was a very cool experience but the challenge with Mesa Verde is it's a very heavily sacred place for the Diné people, the Navajo people.

It's a place where it's hard to have that cultural sensitivity to work at. So for me the challenge there was I couldn't be at these places where I should be working at. So at that time I was like kind of lost in knowing what I could do for interpretation education and that internship.

So basically my supervisor at that time was like you should just try to invite the local community out. You know in the community that we have a hard time bringing out to our park is the Ute Mountain Ute Reservation which is really just adjacent to that park. Kind of like the Navajo Nation and the Havasupai Nation and the Hualapai Nations are just surrounded by the National Park Service boundaries and I was like yeah I could try to do that and I thought that was a very challenging job.

It felt like a tribal liaisons job. I think yeah that was really hard yeah but yeah I guess that empowered me to want to do something that does focus on working in a place where I do feel like I can talk about you know our history here to the public. So I want to do more active interpretation to the public because that's something I've never done at Mesa Verde and that kind of pursued me into the internship here at Grand Canyon.

Word of mouth again people were like this is another opportunity if you want to pursue more in education. So that's something that drove me into wanting to work here to get that experience and that's the picture on to the right of in the red dress where I was during my internship at Desert View and I don't know I'm a very big community person. I have a big community value and I wanted to serve my tribe so I worked with my tribe for two years on the Navajo Nation at Office of Diné Youth which is kind of like a nonprofit program that is similar to Boys and Girls Club.

It's a after-school program for kids to come back to to learn cultural education to pursue outdoor education as well. So I was a program manager for that in Shiprock which is a northern part of the Navajo Nation and I really enjoyed that but you know some jobs have their challenges. It was during COVID so that was a bigger challenge with working with the tribe and especially for younger kids it was really hard and I ended up coming back here to Grand Canyon and applying for a seasonal job here so and that kind of was an easy place for me to be.

I love this place so went from a seasonal ranger to a permanent ranger and that's where I am today. Kind of a long path to get here.

[Meranden]

That's good though like you allowed that time to figure out what you really wanted. I think that's good when you know you try something out and you don't think it's a perfect fix so you try something new and it's perfect and it's exactly what you want to do and taking you to new heights and new experiences. So I'm glad you found something that you really want to do now so and as we as you mentioned like you went from all these internships and now a seasonal and then a permanent with the number of years you've been within the Park Service itself how do you feel you have served your indigenous community?

[Kelli Jones]

I feel like it all started at Mesa Verde working as an intern there and trying to bring in more indigenous representation from a local community level and basically that was all they told me they just want more representation from their local tribes and I'm like cool you know how am I gonna do that I have no idea. So I figured that you know going to the tribal nation which I'm not affiliated with you know I'm Diné and this is the Ute Mountain Ute reservation and that was a challenge itself just to introduce myself to that community letting them know what the goals are for the Park Service and then you know introducing myself as an indigenous woman and coming in letting them know that there is no representation there it does feel you know very lost out there without seeing my own community out there and that was my first time even learning about the Park Service so coming into the Park Service it felt like this place isn't for me because it felt very disconnected and I don't know what that disconnection was at that time so by reconnecting the local community you know to our ancestral land I figured that I would feel a sense a place that this is a right path for me so right when I started my my season here I also felt the same way how I felt at Mesa Verde and then felt that here at Grand Canyon I didn't see the community out here and found out that Grand Canyon community itself has about almost 40% of their community who are tribal representatives so I'm like okay well where are they you know we talk about tribal people and I'm over here like where's my community at and something that I realized like working with the community here at Grand Canyon and just really getting their stories understanding the community out here because when you come out to new places you just don't want to enter it and not understand the meaning behind it and the history I have learned from books and then learning from training through interpreting from other tribes but I think that also what was missing was okay I'm living here now and I want to understand what is this community about here at Grand Canyon and I didn't know that there was a school here a K through 12 school which is one of the only schools that within the Park Service that is within the Park Service boundaries which is really neat and that school is very diverse where we have a lot of kids from different backgrounds and predominantly tribal members as well so and I asked them if they you know feel represented here at Grand Canyon and we even did a school trip up to the rim and it was me and Kelkeana where we did ask like you know do you feel yourself represented here and they said no so and doing these photos was for Native American Heritage Month and asking our local community members to come out to the rim and take their pictures so that our social media and people who come out to visit Grand Canyon can see that there are Native representation here and either you don't see them in the front lines or you know but they are here taking care of this place and they live here and coming to realize that one of the families is actually a sixth generation and now her grandchild is going to be the seventh generation living here so you have these generations of family members still living here and working here at Grand Canyon which is really neat.

[Meranden]

Yeah it's really cool and like we mentioned we plan Native American Heritage Month and they usually have a community event that happens during that time and we've been able to meet a lot of community members who are indigenous who live here so it's really nice to meet them and then also hear about their experiences working here and I feel more at home when I see that they're also here with me as well.

So as we're speaking about the community with your work here I noticed that you're very community based and very passionate about supporting the indigenous youth. What are some projects that you've been able to fulfill not just only as a permanent but just overall your time in the Park Service?

[Kelli Jones]

Yeah I think that you know something that I really want to focus on and my priorities was the community itself here. Focusing on the kids here at the school, seeing what I could do with them to make themselves feel valued not just them but also their families and from the start of that actually been bringing out tribal I guess you can say performers and presenters from affiliated tribes here and around this region bringing them out to the school and just have the kids be inspired by their identity because of that cultural identity is a challenge you know even for me growing up it was you know my mom was actually going through different families and I didn't really know where my culture was at and all I was told when I was young was go to school get educated you know it's that's that survival technique I felt like and it was just like okay I went to school got my degree now what but I think that just making sure that people from this from this community and the kids themselves are proud of their identity their cultural identity that was my main focus is being proud of who they see you know they want to see themselves represented they never seen a native park ranger sometimes or they never seen themselves being valued in this space so I think that was the one of my goals here was trying to figure out what the kids need here at Grand Canyon but also bringing out people from our 11 affiliate tribes from our reservations and some of our kids from our reservations and our people are really great at educating and expressing their identity in different ways it's very diverse so I want that to be represented here to have that being expressed to the public because our cultures are not monolith so when we see one native person we think of oh we speak all the languages or we all live in teepees you know and I feel like it's exhausting to talk about that sometimes as being always in the front lines getting asked those questions where we can bring in people that educate about that too so I really enjoy that hearing from them and then expressing that to the public.

[Meranden]

Yeah and I think also our work that we do at Desert View is very indigenous based so we do a lot of bringing out those tribal members so like Kelli has really introduced me to that side of it of like performances that happen out here and she's in charge of that most of the time along with doing the outreach like we've been able to do a lot as interns to go to these tribal reservations for example we were just on the Hopi Day School and just go do some outreach about what we do and explain also the Grand Canyon Speaks what that platform does and then we were able to meet Billy Mills there which is really cool if you're not familiar with him he's an indigenous runner who won the one gold at the Olympics in the 10k race so that was really cool we've been able to learn a lot from Kelli just based on those trips and those performances and things like that.

[Kelli Jones]

And I forgot to also add that as a ranger was something that was really out of my comfort zone I went out to Washington to do a Christmas tree lighting so that was really neat it was during the time that Chuck Sams was was the head of our Department of Interior which is really neat and Deb Holland was also Secretary of Interior at that time so it's just nice to do that at the time there was that representation on leadership in our nation so I felt very like empowered to be part of that and just to continue on to keep doing what we're doing because of all that support from that level and then coming on down because they're also not my only my inspiration but they were also wanting to improve indigenous representation in the National Park Service so that was the Christmas tree lighting I don't think Meranden knows about this so it was just like that time Shania Twain was there and LL Cool J was the host of that show so I didn't really take a lot of pictures because I was so nervous trying to make sure I don't trip or fall going on stage or it was also really cold and windy but yeah there was it was a pretty good time it was around winter season so you have the own challenge itself with the environment and weather.

[Meranden]

Wow, yeah I didn't know this, that's really cool. And I know like that you're from here the Navajo Nation which is really close to where we are right now I just want to ask why did you choose Grand Canyon and what does it mean to you?

[Kelli Jones]

Yeah for me I think that Grand Canyon when I first came as a intern I already had a lot of support at Desert View from people who are working from the Conservancy that are not even working for the Park Service who were if you go to the watchtower you'll see our Conservancy staff who actually also works across from us the visitor park store so the Conservancy staff at Desert View they focus on hiring within the local community of Cameron and I thought that right when I started there was already some representation there from Desert View and her name was Caroline Wilson she's from a Cameron community and she just welcomed me you know I was she's this older lady she's like my mom's age and she just treated me like her daughter so I felt very like at home already there and then when I came here I just learned from the community itself here and the people who live here I just felt very like wow this is a you know this place is calling me and it's also makes me feel comfortable so I think it's just the community itself that made me feel like this place is special but also I learned more about my cultural identity while working here from the affiliated tribes and my affiliated tribe and there's also great people who do work here that also empowers me to learn more about myself so it's just learning from the people who are taking care of these places that is part of our ancestors and I thought that this is a place to be for sure it's only two hours from home too so I go home all the time on weekends and home I never left the Four Corners area in my whole life like my career and you know travel for work and stuff across everywhere but I never wanted to leave this Colorado Plateau area.

[Meranden]

Yeah I think we're very similar on that as well yeah because like that's also how like being here is really feels like home and once again like seeing all the tribal members who live here it does really bring that sense of community and wanting to feel more connected to your culture and so I really enjoy being here and being able to work with you on all the things that we've been able to do and as we mentioned this is the last day of March but this is also Women's History Month so as we have that and as an indigenous woman, what does Women's History Month mean to you?

[Kelli Jones]

Oh my gosh it's like it means a lot you know I think you know Women's History Month is it's it hits me differently for some reason part of it it's just not like performative because we have themes every month you know Women's History Month should be celebrated every month but it is a very sacred I guess you can say cultural significance for the Diné woman and part of that is celebration I think you know celebrating the resiliency of us indigenous women and what we go through you know recently the hardest thing that was really hard for me to kind of like celebrate this month was it's even hard for me to say and explain it in a way where people can understand it's just the injustices that indigenous women face we have missing murdered indigenous women and children so recently there was a case within Arizona that really hit hard and this has been happening for a very long time so it's just kind of hard to kind of think about Women's History Month this month and then knowing that this happened here in Arizona and where it's a 14 year old girl you know and that really hit me hard because the children are a future generation and you know we want to empower them to take on that role of their culture because in our culture we are leaders our deities gave us gave the woman a reason to give life so and that is to rematriate the land you know make sure that she's also heard and we take care of her it's just not you know human nature it's not human nature to you and that's something that we walk on every day so it's a very sacred thing and how we think about Women's History Month and then as well as for indigenous women but you also think about the challenges that we do face too that should be heard and expressed to the public.

[Meranden]

Yeah I agree. And I know you said that there's a lot of empowerment and meaning for Diné women and Diné is actually matriarchal so what are some important roles that the woman play in your culture?

[Kelli Jones]

Oh there's a lot. So one of the strong values in our culture focuses on family you know kinship make sure we have that family lineage to keep moving on for generations and then community I think that I think that's something I carry deep within my heart and I think that's something that is a very strong value in our culture and then not only that but we also have a kinaalda which is a ceremony when a girl becomes a woman we have a sacred ceremony and that's just you know that celebration of what the deities gave to changing women so it's part of that creation story that it's just something that is very important and part of that is that community and that value of family so and when we have those ceremonies our whole family comes together so you have those ceremonies and it brings that kinship back which is very important.

[Meranden]

Yeah and speaking of like that community and just coming here when I first got here I immediately felt welcomed when I first met you and along with like we mentioned GCC there's another woman besides Caroline who was her sister her name is Marian she's Diné as well and whenever I see her she's like my grandma to me she always says “hi Shi’yazh how are you doing?” and she hugs me and asked me how I'm doing and she's my neighbor so it's really nice that she's there and these women are very important to us and culturally they have a lot of significance so as we speak of these women who is and who are some strong women in your life and that have a very special meaning to you?

[Kelli Jones]

I have some pictures oh oh yeah so this is um so some of the people that inspire me from my family is obviously my nieces who are up there and my two nieces they kind of empower me to be the person that I am today and try to be their role model so I always look at them you know okay I'm auntie to them so that means I have to behave but also I just want to you know have them be just like empowered to kind of find their value in life so the people who kind of brought me to where I'm at are a few of so this is a picture of my grandmother this is a actual a yearbook from Chilocco Indian boarding school which was in Oklahoma so she was actually put into boarding school all the way from the Navajo Nation to Oklahoma and I look at this photo because it's that history that we don't know about and I never grew up learning about the boarding school and how the assimilation and genocide that our grandparents and great-grandparents and so forth have to face and just to get to where we're at today and just for me to be who I am so I look at what this photo represents and how strong and resilient you know my grandma had to go through just for me to be here you know and I think that emotional she is the one who never finished school there it's like a vocational school my grandparents met here at Chilocco which is funny because like my grandpa graduated and then they went back to the rez they built a home there and then they started doing some farming in the area but my grandmother always really just forced me to finish school and I was also raised by her until I was about I guess you can say eight years old my mom was pretty young she was like 25 when she had me so being born and raised by my grandparents until I was like almost 8 to 10 years old that's basically my mom you know and then my grandparents too is my dad so my dad left me so I didn't really have a dad but my grandpa and my uncles kind of fulfilled that role and basically and they were my father's too so I really appreciate you know them and all this history I think that you know has been erased and I think that's something that I love you know when I'm an interpreter here to kind of talk about this history it might be hard history but it's also showing the resiliency of what our people have gone through and how they survived and how we got to where we're at today so and then the other person so that's my grandparents when they came back to the res and then the other person is my mom and she's the one that is on the horse so my mom she is a single parent and she basically worked minimum very minimum wage when I was born and my grandmother told my mom that you know until you are have stability financially in your home your own home and I'm able to give back your daughter's you know so my mom really worked hard to kind of get that home and that roof over our heads and and you know I went to school in Kayenta because that's where she got her job and that's where I'm actually you know I a lot of the community members in Canton know me but I'm not really from Kayenta I'm actually from Rock Point so that's when I moved to Kayenta and Kayenta is a place where you probably drove through when you're going through Monument Valley or going through the Four Corners but yeah my mom is my inspiration because we had a dinosaur TV until like five years ago so she really valued everything that she had the most important thing that she put her financial stability to was obviously making sure there's food on our table the animals that she has and then the roof over our heads so anything within that otherwise like TV and other things were nothing to her and I was embarrassed you know when I was in high school because when where I was a I was athlete so we eat out all the time when we travel to places and I always had like my own sandwich in my sandwich bags and kind of like take my food to go but looking at it today like you know I really appreciate that from her because she just wanted me to kind of be here you know like understand that yeah like I just want you to finish school and then pursue something that you enjoy so I really appreciate that and then that's a picture of my grandma and me I'm in the little dress with this I was sitting on the saddle and then my little sister is the baby that my grandma's holding so yeah.

[Meranden]

Yeah hold on....

Yeah women are really important to us but yeah they're the reasons why we're here my mom's really important to me too and just the people I work with like I mentioned Marian and Kelli and Kelki like they mean a lot to us so we're really happy that they're here to guide us and continue to be our cheerleaders on the sideline let's get out of this little emotional side and I wanted to go into a fun little question which we like to ask during this podcast so if you could have any traditional food right now what would it be?

[Kelli Jones]

Oh my gosh I was just telling I can't I got back from home this past weekend in Oak Springs on my dad's side and I was kind of disappointed because I wanted to have some you know grilled only like meat yeah and we call it my end which is like sheep but I was actually craving Ach'íí' so Ach'íí' is a kind of, it's funny cuz like little kids will call it telephone wire I'll probably grow some of y'all out right now just kind of heads up and warning but it's um the sheep intestines wrapped with sheep fat and then you grill it so in our culture we eat everything from the sheep we don't waste anything we even eat the head and yeah so it's like it's a delicacy that we eat on our reservations at flea markets there's like different areas within our reservation and regions where they have flea markets in different towns and they sell it all the time to their community but yeah I've been craving that and you just wrap it with like tortilla or fry bread.

[Meranden]

Yeah that sounds really good, so yeah as we're wrapping up here and you know this is a really impactful and emotional conversation and just talking about women and being an indigenous woman there's so much to it and you'd work here at the Grand Canyon is there anything that you would like to leave here with the audience?

[Kelli Jones]

Yeah I think that I worked here and interpretation for almost five years I brought out a lot of challenges and as well as a lot of people don't understand a lot of our cultural worldviews from in our perspectives and it's very hard to be authentic sometimes you know and just be ourselves and explaining things but I think that I'd like to leave you with we have over 400 National Parks within the nation and each National Park has an important cultural and spiritual connection to tribes and I think it's just not knowing the land that you walk on and who it belongs to and how that connection is still there for the tribes but also knowing the history the history is really deep here at Grand Canyon you know we have we have a lot of dispossession that happened with our communities and that still is embedded with historical trauma and I think that is a challenge to kind of bring back those reconnections within communities today and you know a lot of people always ask why is there no tribal representation why this that history goes way back before Park Service boundaries were created it goes back into the photo I showed you with the boarding school you know a lot of that colonialism that did happen in our families and it still has affected families today and I think even the history here at Grand Canyon is bringing that light back into having our interpreters and our staff talk about it more and that is something I really appreciate you know working here and the goals that Grand Canyon does have is to bring back that reconciliation but not just using it in a performative way you know like land acknowledgement is something that is it performative or is it not performative and how can we repair just not checking off the list but also understanding and that's where allies come in you know people who are coming to visit these places they can you know challenge our public lands to bring in more stories and history that does focus on different backgrounds of people and where we can also see our younger generation see themselves so I think that's just something I'd like to leave you with you know and I think that I just really appreciate this and I wasn't too sure if I have any more photos I'm like really bad at the PowerPoint stuff but oh yeah it's a Grand Canyon so yeah I like this picture because it has that light shining on Grand Canyon so I kind of see Grand Canyon as you know bringing that spotlight out and also us as representing this place too so yeah.

[Meranden]

Well, thank you so much Kelli for being here if you give a round of applause.

[Ranger Jonah]

Grand Canyon speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy a special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music this recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park to learn more about Grand Canyon first voices visit www.nps.gov /GRCA here at Grand Canyon National Park we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon these being the Havasupai tribe, the Hualapai tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah and the San Juan Southern Paiute tribe.

Another bonus episode! This one features Kelli Jones, a Diné park ranger at Grand Canyon National Park. Her work consists of working with and inviting tribal members for programs, performances, and more to educate visitors and elevate the voices of those who call the Grand Canyon home. As this interview was conducted in March, which is Women’s History Month, she shares some heartfelt stories about the women in her life and how their support has helped her along the way.

Episode 12

Meranden Numkena and Lakin Epaloose Speaks

Transcript

[Meranden Numkena]

And then she looked at me and then all of a sudden she started crying and then she hugged me and she's like thank you so much for like doing what you're doing and that was a really big thing.

I was like wow like what I'm doing is really impacting and that youth is very much important to highlight and make sure we're educating them and letting them know how much our culture means to not only us but everybody because they we want people to know we're here and that we're doing stuff to amplify our voices.

[Lakin Epaloose]

When I thought of the NPS I thought of everyone having like kind of like telling you not to do things.

Then they'll be like no don't do that no you can't do that no that's illegal.

But actually it's the opposite like the people of not just the Grand Canyon but also other Parks are working to provide those ways to practice culture on government land because of course like the land is that of the ancestors of all our people.

[Meranden Numkena]

Hello everyone, welcome back to season three of Grand Canyon Speaks. I'm Meranden.

[Lakin Epaloose]

And this is Lakin.

[Meranden Numkena]

We hope you appreciated the stories shared throughout season three. Lakin and I have been producing and managing Grand Canyon Speaks throughout our internship at the canyon however this marks the final episode of this season.

[Lakin Epaloose]

To wrap up season three we have an episode of our own where we share our internship experience with Rangers Dan and Brian. This interview was part of a festival that Meranden and I planned and hosted in celebration of Native American Heritage Month.

[Meranden Numkena]

We appreciate everyone for tuning in to this season as we highlighted indigenous athletes and coaches of the 11 tribes that connect to Grand Canyon.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Take a listen as Meranden and I talk about behind the scenes at the canyon and enjoy.

[Meranden Numkena]

I'm from Tuba City and Moenkopi which is about an hour away from here and I am an intern with Lakin at Desert View and it's been really cool.

I feel like one of the questions will tell why I'm here but yeah really excited to be doing this and share a lot of what we've done because we did a lot of cool stuff so happy you guys are here too and more people come in.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah I'm one of the interns here at Desert View well we are at the village but out at Desert View we do most of our work there our programming our Grand Canyon Speaks podcast editing.

Every now and then we'll come to the village to help out with performances or to work the desk or just to come hang out here but yeah I'm one of the interns I'm from Zuni.

[Ranger Dan]

Alright so this is this podcast has a specific focus and it is about your internship and what you have done in over a year here because you started in August of 2024 in our office and you've seen a couple generations of seasonals in that time frame supervisors even.

So you've been here quite a while but it all starts with one thing and that's an application to do this job and so our first question here is what about this internship made you want to apply for it?

[Lakin Epaloose]

I first found out about the internship through an organization in Zuni called Zuni Youth Enrichment Project. There's a program or an organization in Zuni that provides youth with opportunities to grow closer to their culture and practice their culture in many different ways and so I participated in a hike with them down to Phantom Ranch several years ago and then I kind of kept in close contact with them.

I was an art instructor for them so I taught an apprenticeship for watercolor students and after that I saw that they were sharing the opportunity to come out here as an intern at the Desert View office and it was kind of like a last minute decision it was like the night before the closing of the application and I don't know what came over me I just I just decided to do it but I think it was the best decision I've made in the past five years.

[Ranger Dan]

Very cool, very cool.

[Meranden Numkena]

So mine goes back to my first time coming to the canyon. I went on this trip with Talent Search with Northern Arizona University and they give students a chance to go like prepare for college so basically we went on a trip to Grand Canyon and the first thing we went to was headquarters because that used to be where like the visitor center was and people would go there first.

We parked there and we went to see the canyon for the first time and from that moment I knew I was like okay like when I saw the view I was like okay I want to grow old here and I want to work here so I pretty much worked my way to there to get there.

Another thing is my mom she always prioritized our education so she was like no matter what you guys do because I'm the oldest she's like I want all of you guys to go to college it doesn't matter where as long as you go get your education and when you have your bachelor's at least and then you can do whatever you want you can have a family kids whatever but she said as long as you get your education you can do whatever you want.

So I was like okay I'm going to college and growing up my mom went to ASU Arizona State University so I went there too because it was a really big thing in our family and also I got really homesick so I wanted to choose something that was close.

I knew I was going with the Grand Canyon trip I was going to go into something in that field so I majored in park sports and recreation management at ASU and then I also with that I knew I was going to work at the park.

I just didn't know exactly what the purpose was I knew I wanted to be a ranger like okay work with the public let them know who we are and stuff like that and then I started looking at stuff online and then I came across somebody who works here and I noticed how she was working with tribes that called the Grand Canyon home and that's actually Kelki that's here in front row.

She became a role model to me from that moment I saw her and online saying how the works that she's doing for the tribes and stuff like that so I knew I want to reach out to her and see how she got to where she was so I was able to talk with her and then she's kind of been a mentor there since then this was probably like my sophomore year in college so we kind of just talked back and forth about different opportunities and then she told me about this internship and I was like she's told me like you should apply they're a pretty cool team out in Desert View and I was like okay so same thing with Lakin a little bit, I kind of took a little while because I don't know what I'm going to do after I graduate from college and then I thought about the interview and then I was like okay we might as well just try it you never know like what if it you never know let's just do the interview.

And I did it and honestly it was like the best most perfect thing in the world like we just felt like everything clicked because I was talking with Brian and it's just like everything worked and I felt like I answers the questions like really passionately and I just knew in that moment like this is something that I want to do so and it's been working really good so that's how I heard about this opportunity .

[Ranger Brian]

It has been working really good this has been a pretty amazing year plus I kind of want to backtrack and ask Lakin because he specified that five-year time frame and like if there was a decision five and a half years ago that was better but I'm not going to put him on the spot I'm going to keep going.

You guys have had so many different experiences and done so many different things while you've been here.

I'm wondering like what are the things you're going to take away? What are one of the moments that you won't forget?

[Lakin Epaloose]

I feel like through this opportunity it gave me a greater perspective on how the tribes express their culture and how that's important and when it comes to sustaining their identity because each culture not just ones of the canyon but of Native America have their unique way of expressing who they are where they come from and how they want to cultivate that sense of culture and family.

So growing up in Zuni I knew a lot about Zuni I knew some Hopi but it gave me a better idea of how we can better manage the lands that we all share and lands that we have called home forever and so that that's the number one thing that this internship has provided me with, this a position to develop that knowledge and ways to share that knowledge and stewardship.

But besides that I would say working with youth more; my favorite part of the internship was going on the river and that gave me a lot of motivation to get back on the river and work with youth and provide them cultural knowledge so that they take care of land when they're visiting whether they're indigenous or non-indigenous so yeah.

[Meranden Numkena]

When I went to college I didn't really spend a lot of time at home and I would stay in Phoenix because I didn't have a way to come home. Sometimes it would have to be my mom and with that I felt like I kind of became like they call them a city native or urban native and I didn't really get to connect with my culture as much or go home for ceremonies and things like that.

So through this internship I feel like with being so close to home I'm able to go there go home more and then also the cultural demonstrators being able to talk to a lot of the Hopi ones they have told me like a lot of different things.

There's a lot of them that are really welcoming. I know sometimes some tend to be upset like you don't know what where you come from you don't you spent too much time in the city now you don't know anything but it's like there's people here that have welcomed me and told me like it's okay you can ask these questions there's always going to be some things you don't know you're not going to know everything.

So it's good to that you're asking these questions so I think that was one good thing is that they were welcoming and that made me understand like I need to learn my culture more so with that I've been asking those questions and also just learning about all the other cultures and tribes that have a connection to the canyon and understanding also through our presentations or performers or like what we have today just seeing how they celebrate and share this land.

Another is like the importance of the Havasupai because they're the main ones here that have the canyon as their home like they're the ones who are here and learning about how they're doing dealing with a lot of different stuff like that.

So just really learning about how the tribes connect to the canyon and also me connecting back to my culture.

[Ranger Brian]

Thanks Meranden and thanks Lakin and yeah you guys have gotten the chance to connect on so many different levels with this place and with the river and with youth and with all those different cultural demonstrators and learn so much from all of them. I'm curious if there's something that that you're thinking about from this internship that it taught you about yourself?

[Lakin Epaloose]

I feel like it taught me that we can manage money yeah and that we that we're able to utilize the resources of the National Park Service in a way that benefits not only us as a team but also the communities of those tribal nations.

When I say that I mean like we can bring out artists youth artists like the youth demonstrators we have outside or inside the visitor center we can bring out performers and connect with people not only in our communities but outside of our communities.

Like I was saying connecting with the other cultures and learning more about them and one thing it taught me was just to be just to keep an open mind when it comes to co-managing all of the resources that we share kind of like what I said earlier yeah.

[Meranden Numkena]

Growing up I like I mentioned I'm the oldest so I've always been the one that needs to take control of everything like I need to make sure my siblings are okay they're fed they're paid for like all this stuff and I kind of brought that to here and I've always felt like I need to be in charge or like I need to it has to go my way and that's a like a hard thing to admit but a hard and also a hard thing to understand and like put it through my mind like you're not the one in charge all the time.

There's a whole team that's working here so I think that's one of the biggest ones because I remember talking to Dan about it and he's like I don't know we just talked about it I was like oh yeah that's not good and like we worked through it though like okay you need to make sure you're passing on those certain things to do I guess to other people not just me myself so I think that was a hard thing I had to learn but it's also learning like there's a whole team you need to work together it's not just you and things like that I think it's a hard thing to admit but it was one thing that I really had to work on is like making sure everyone has a piece because that's it's not just me so I think that's probably one of the biggest things I learned.

[Ranger Brian]

Yeah I guess like when you care about something a lot right and you know you've been really invested with the work and when you care about something that much it can be hard to like hand it off to someone else because you feel that responsibility but then I guess when we bring other people in we can do more and so yeah that's awesome lesson.

[Ranger Dan]

So yeah there's a lot of learning going on a lot of perspectives have changed is what you're talking about already but this internship is focused on working with the public working with communities it's very public facing and this right now is actually your last biggest event that is public facing as well which is really cool and so I have a question here of how is your view of working in public service changed or working with the NPS changed throughout your internship if so like how is it how has it changed?

[Lakin Epaloose]

I realize that you'll get a lot of the same questions they'll ask you where the restroom's at but besides that we have an opportunity here to share our voice and our authentic perspective and I think that through that we can provide an authentic representation of our people.

When I thought of the NPS I thought of everyone having like kind of like telling you not to do things when they say that I mean like you have the NPS people here and the tribal people here and like tribal people tribal nations and people of those nations want to practice their culture on government land and then they'll be like no don't do that no you can't do that no that's illegal but actually it's the opposite.

Like the people of not just the Grand Canyon but also other parks are working to provide those ways to practice their culture on government land because of course like the land is that of the ancestors of all our people.

[Meranden Numkena]

I think it helped me fulfill the dream of being a park ranger like when I knew I want to come here I can I can easily say I accomplished the goal I had the moment I saw the canyon for the first time of being able to be that person in green and gray and talk to people and answer questions and a lot of them are repetitive but one thing that I learned too is that like a lot of questions are crazy to hear especially about us.

Like they're like it's just like movies where's the teepees where's the indians where's this and that and it's like it's funny I kind of laugh at it because I'm just like what's going on like why are we saying this but I mean that's just how people are seeing us without like us actually saying things they see the stereotypical stuff and that's really what drives me to keep doing this kind of stuff so people know how we actually live.

Like some people think we live outside still or we don't have cars or anything and I'm like I'm right here like I have a car I have a place to live and stuff like that and like we go to school so that's one thing I learned is how important our interpretation is whether it's about us or even just taking care of the canyon itself.

It's really really important and yeah that's one thing I really thought about is how other people think about us or talk about us and how important our presence is here behind the desk talking to people and saying like hey you're saying the wrong things let's correct it or let me show you this kind of information and teach you what's the correct way I guess.

[Ranger Brian]

Thanks Meranden. I think you guys both like I think you both really touched on a lot of the core of the work at Desert View which is bringing that authenticity and bringing those actual first voices directly to the visitor to give them the opportunity to learn to learn about things that they don't know and cultures that they don't know you know that's really the heart of the work that we do at Desert View and I feel like you've already kind of spoken to this question in this last answer but I'll give you the opportunity to kind of add to it is just you know.

What are some of the ways that you were able to bring your culture into the workplace into the agency or to the visitors?

[Lakin Epaloose]

I was able to do that through a lot of the programming that we did during the summer and I think that was of my one of the things I enjoyed the most was sharing that information and a lot of what I talked about was the elements of nature and how we connect to them through our Zuni culture how we identify them and why that's important for sustaining the values that create the foundation for our families back home.

And one example is like I would talk about the migration story of Zuni and how it originates in the Grand Canyon at Ribbon Falls and how that's connected to a lot of the ancestral sites throughout the southwest particularly the Four Corners states and how we carry that in our in our everyday lives whether it's through our art our agriculture our ceremonies like our dances all that is still carried on as it was a long time ago.

Programming like that I feel like that was one way I was able to educate people from my Zuni perspective and I think one cool program that I had was I'm talking about different birds and hunting because hunting is like a huge tradition for Zuni and so when we hunt we can hunt birds and a lot of the birds have different meanings some being like a moisture and water others being for like directions or strength.

And I'll like make bird calls like I can do a flicker.

Like so you hear flickers like that out in the forest but yeah it was cool like providing programs like that and getting reactions like that from people and just showing like that we still carry these traditions yeah.

[Meranden Numkena]

I would say a lot of it is just also I forgot to touch on this one is also what the culture demonstrators they taught me a lot of stuff about the canyon that I wasn't sure about or I yeah like I had questions about it but like one important thing is that I like to tell people although I live here at the canyon I can't actually go in it on my Hopi side because it can affect certain things for me.

So that was like a really important thing for me to learn and I feel like just telling them all these different things of how we need to respect each other and like sometimes there's been questions where it's a little too touchy so I make sure like hey you can ask certain things but not too far also like that's a big thing is just showing that respect if you're going to talk to us like be respectful of what you're asking because sometimes it can go a little further and I have people who like try to go deeper.

I'm like okay just hold on but yeah just making sure that respect is there and then also like I said like interpreting our culture into our programs so like sometimes I only did one pop-up and that was about like the snow we got.

So I would tell them like certain words in Hopi of what things were so that was cool to share with them and have them pronounce it so they know what it means and it was cool to have like different questions they ask me and they're actually interested in learning about who I am as a person..

[Ranger Dan]

What I'm hearing is there's a lot of education with the public but a lot of education for yourselves as well that you've gained in your time frame here and a lot of pride as well that I think both of you have started with but then also really expanded upon on with your work and we can see it especially towards the end here of what this means to you and I would like to like to ask about this internship it's a focus on indigenous voices and raising those voices inside the park.

Do you feel you have made an impact for indigenous voices here at the canyon?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah I feel like we definitely have and one specific group that I would like to focus on is the youth because of course they’re the future of our communities and our indigenous community as a whole.

Doing youth-based programming like not just this year but last year we had a youth art gallery that was one way we were able to amplify the voices of the youth through their art. Other ways were of course like the Grand Canyon Speaks we were able to highlight athletes in our native communities and the reason why we did that is athletes and athletics has a huge influence on the children of our nations.

[Meranden Numkena]

I'd say yes as well that we've made a big impact the podcast that one's been really cool to highlight indigenous voices and then they can share it on social media and everyone else hears it that way as well.

Another really cool one was what that trip I went on to Grand Canyon was with Talent Search and then that was like 2016 I think and it was really cool because this year that same trip happened again so I got to talk to the kids who went on the trip I went on and I was able to talk to them about like how I got here my kind of like my story of how I worked my way from that dream to being here now and after that I talked to them.

I told them about who I was and where I'm from and making sure I told them a lot of like like certain places because they were Hopi primarily Hopi and Navajo students so I was able to talk to them about certain words or they had questions about where I was from and after I was done talking with them they had the chance to look around at the Desert View Watchtower.

So we had them look around and then one Hopi girl came up to me and she was just saying like it's really cool that you work here and like I think one of my you might know one of my uncles he's a demonstrator and I was like oh yeah they've been here at the bottom of the tower and I've been able to talk to them and she's like yeah that's really cool.

Athen she looked at me and then all of a sudden she started crying and then she hugged me and she's like thank you so much for like doing what you're doing and that was a really big thing I was like wow like that's what I'm doing is really impacting and that youth is very much important to highlight and make sure we're educating them and letting them know how much our culture means to not only us but everybody because they we want people to know we're here and that we're doing stuff to amplify our voices so that was a really big thing of like knowing okay they're listening to me and the work I'm doing is important yeah.

[Ranger Brian]

The work that you both have done has been really impactful and you know you've taken on big projects and lots of responsibilities like you know Lakin and you mentioned managing money right you know for I think you guys managed about twenty thousand dollars for us thirty thousand dollars for a whole bunch of different events like that's a lot of responsibility in addition to all the logistics and things like that you know as you took on all these projects and accomplished all these things.

What's one of what's one of the skills that you developed in the internship that you'll be taking away with you?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Working under on dance supervision has helped me kind of learn how to work with a team more effectively because kind of similar to Meranden’s experience I was used to working by myself on a lot of projects whether it was like my art or things that I did in school and just to give people context I kind of came out of high school before I came into this internship even though the preferred qualifications was like a four-year degree but I was very passionate about the work I was doing and so that kind of led me into this position when I was like 19-20 and when I first came here I couldn't really drive a car because I wasn't old enough yet to be on the insurance.

But anyway working with a team and being able to put up events like this not just the interview we're having today but the entire festival and learning to work with Meranden and because me and Meranden were able to share ideas and develop those ideas as time went on and that happened right when we got here.

And right when we had our conversation with our supervisor at the time her name is Melissa Panter she was here a couple months before she left but yeah I think working with Meranden taught me a lot of how you can collaborate on big projects and have a greater outcome than you thought was possible and I feel like I can take that into the future when it comes to like projects as an artist so like fashion shows fashion design and collections things like that I feel like that's one way I can utilize that skill in a different field.

[Meranden Numkena]

I think the big thing is like working with us a team but another thing is just communication overall especially working with other tribes because I know even though we have 11 sometimes it's hard to get communicate to communicate to other ones and it's good if we have a good relationship with them.

So over the years we've been able to work with a lot of different I think I would say like at least five or six different tribes that call the canyon home but we are still trying to work with a bunch of others and just learning how to connect with them I know one big thing that kind of stopped us from doing that is outreach.

We couldn't travel so I feel like being able to connect with those tribes and also as a tribal member myself I would really like to see like the parks go to the to the reservations or wherever they're at to do a face-to-face kind of conversation so they know that we really want to work with them so I think that communication is really important.

And also like back what I said about working as a team it was really hard to work independent or really hard not to work independently and give things to other people to work on but being able to just talk it out and understand like we have a whole team.

You're not going to have to stress out over everything yourself like there's other people who want to help you and will make it easier so communication and working as a team are probably the biggest skills I'll take with me.

[Ranger Dan]

Those are very valuable skills that both of you have come across and yeah handling money is a big one too and like you've learned so much about this internship and what goes along with it you were you've been exposed to things that you never thought you would be learning about or be experiencing in this internship because we've had so much time we could do so many things and hopefully there's someone listening to this podcast who is in your shoes but over a year ago and they're trying to look for something to do.

And maybe they will apply for an Ancestral Lands internship with the park and if they do what kind of advice do you have for those future interns here at Grand Canyon?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Be prepared for no phone signal. We have bad cell service at Desert View and sometimes I try to like call people like or I'll try to call like Meranden and I can't the phone just goes dead.

So be prepared to kind of live a secluded life but also to be mindful. It gives you time to reflect. That seclusion gives you time to be by yourself and to reflect on your life where it's going and if you're stepping into an internship similar to ours understand that this is just like a big step to whatever's coming next so whether it's like becoming a ranger here at Grand Canyon or a different park or if it's like taking a step into a different aspiration you'll learn a lot and pick up a lot here at the park.

If you're going to be working here and also don't forget to go outside and like go for runs or hikes because I feel like that's one of the most special parts of living here is being outside.

[Meranden Numkena]

I think mine's pretty similar but if you're going to work with this exact team, Dan eats a lot of carrots so be ready for a lot of chewing of carrots also hot cheetos if you like hot cheetos we have a lot of snacks there so have a good have one good snack you're going to choose because we get that.

Yeah I think mine is also making sure you go outside because that's what me and Lakin ended up doing. We did a, me Lakin and Brian did a half marathon a couple weeks ago here at Grand Canyon so that was a really big accomplishment and we ran that so that was a cool thing to learn how to run in this higher elevation.

Also being careful of like your footing because those trails are really not like they're uneven so just learning that is really cool.

Also being on the watch for a lot of elk I've seen a lot of crazy things this is also to all of you guys, do not approach the elk so closely.

I’ve literally have seen someone like pet one and I was like that's really scary so yeah I think it's just also the animals don't touch them.

[Ranger Brian]

So our last question is kind of a good follow-up to what you're talking about with getting out and experiencing nature but before I ask you that question I want to just sort of like wrap this up about the internship and all the work you've done and I just want to take the opportunity that we have here in front of a group to really say thank you to both of you and to acknowledge all the work that you've done.

You've been here for over a year and the amount of work that you've accomplished the amount of good that you've done for the traditionally associated tribes as well as the park and the visitors is really an impressive list of things and accomplishments.

It's something that I hope you're both really proud of something that I'm really grateful to both of you for so I just want to say thank you.

So the last question that I have for you is about that idea of getting out connecting with nature experiencing the place using all of your senses to connect.

And so my question for you is what is a sound that you experience that you won't forget

[Lakin Epaloose]

I would say there's two I don't want to take one from Meranden and so I think I know which one you're going to talk about.

But my first one is when we went on a bird count for the Christmas bird count last year. We got to this point between Desert View and the village and we're kind of looking down into the canyon and I heard these birds and I was surprised to hear them but they're the Clark's nutcracker and in Zuni they're called Lohaya Bo’ya.

I was really surprised to hear those nutcrackers and they're if you can imagine them they're gray and they have a black wing and they're flying into the canyon and I've never seen that before.

I only see them like in high elevation forests so hearing them was my favorite noise.

I'm just going to take the other one.

When we went on the hike last month or I think it was last month or two months ago with the Desert View team we hiked into this canyon and we were hiking back out after like five miles and me and Dan were kind of.

No all of us were taking a rest under this little shade shaded area and then we heard this weird noise and then we got quiet and that was like meowing and then hissing and then a loud growl and all that at the same time and we looked kind of or we kind of waited and then we knew that it was a mountain lion and it was about a mile away and we're all like very excited and then well we were walking closer to the mountain lion because it was between us and our right and we're getting closer and it wouldn't stop.

And then I was like joking with the Meranden and I was like don't move and then I stepped and I stepped on this branch and it cracked and it made a loud crack and then we were laughing really hard but yeah I feel like that those two noises were pretty cool.

[Meranden Numkena]

He said we were excited to see it.

Me and Kelli were so scared because I'd never heard anything like that that was really cool but it was scary because we did it it was a long hike and pretty cool.

One time so with our ALCC we have or Ancestral Lands we have to have a monthly meeting with our site supervisor with ALCC so we were about to get ready for it and we usually I usually do mine on my computer and we share a webcam and one day we were going to I was going to I think we were going to do it together actually we were going go on a call and her name's Teiyanknei.

We're going to call Teiyanknei and I had it up on my computer and somehow the cord got like stuck on his big like computer thing and like it fell and it was really loud and like the whole like computer the computer itself I guess it like it really made it made a really loud sound and like we had to be on the call with Teiyanknei and I was trying to be serious.

And yeah it was a really loud sound and I was trying so hard not to laugh but like and I was trying to pick it up and thankfully the computer was okay but like we were worried about it and I was trying so hard not to laugh but that's probably one I thought of that's really funny

[Ranger Dan]

Thanks for sharing and that.

I got to say that mountain lion day that was that was a lot of fun yeah because we all heard it and then a bunch of us look at each other and we go “let's go find it let's go see this cat”.”

We did not see the cat but I think it really kind of encompasses memories in that last part and you have two months left here and we got a lot to do and it's hard to think about that the time is coming to an end and we've done so much in this time frame and so to kind of reiterate Brian it's been amazing having you both here and as you know I didn't really want to supervise anybody at any point in this part of my career but working with both of you for the few months before Melissa left I was like yeah I can I can supervise Lakin and Meranden.

Because you're doing so well and so much that you just needed a little bit of guidance honestly but you also helped me to learn how to supervise people and build new qualities that I can bring into the future with more people that work at Desert View as well so there's been a lot of teaching like for both of you to learn the NPS because it's a hard system to learn but that teaching has also come back to us especially me in the office as well so it's been amazing and we're really happy to do this Grand Canyon Speaks with you who knows if we need another part two Grand Canyon Speaks to continue conversation because I feel we could talk for an hour and a half so I want to thank you for this day this whole internship as well so thank you very much.

[Ranger Jonah]

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices visit www.nps.gov/grca. Here at Grand Canyon National Park we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon. These being the Havasupai tribe, the Hualapai tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute tribe.

We hope you appreciated the stories shared throughout Season 3! To wrap up this season, Meranden and Lakin were interviewed about their experiences while working at Grand Canyon National Park as interns with Arizona Conservation Corps and Ancestral Lands Conservation Corps. They expressed the importance of highlighting Indigenous voices through Grand Canyon Speaks, event planning, and programming at the Park. Take a listen as Meranden and Lakin share behind the scenes at the canyon and enjoy!

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