A painting of a trail going down canyon through colorful cliff layers.

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Behind the Scenery

Hidden forces shape our ideas, beliefs, and experiences of Grand Canyon. Join us, as we uncover the stories between the canyon’s colorful walls. Probe the depths, and add your voice for what happens next at Grand Canyon!

Episodes

Butterfly Effect: citizens count!

Transcript

Kid: Wait what is the net? Robb: This is for catching butterflies and then we are using cameras to take pictures of butterflies. Once a day each year I lead a butterfly count here at the Grand Canyon and we are actually looking at the butterflies that are here in 2021 and we are going to compare to the butterflies that were around in 1950 and 1940 and 1930. You remember 1930? Kid: Yes Robb: Isn’t that great there were butterflies all over the place. We are going to compare. Sometimes in science it is really fun to be able to have comparison. Butterflies, like a lot of animals and plants, we can actually see if changes are happening. We think that the climate is warming really quick, that’s been the trend. Even rain, precipitation, and snow is changing. And then plants will change and then even butterflies will change. Some butterflies will be new. There’s these ones I saw last year and they’re from Mexico. We’re not in Mexico, that’s way over there! So there might be some Mexico butterflies coming across to the US and up into Canada eventually. Emily: Hi, I’m Emily, a park ranger at Grand Canyon. You were just listening to Park Guide Robb Hannawacker, talking to a visitor on the North Kaibab trail. This is Behind the Scenery, a podcast that gives you a glimpse into the park’s goings on. I’ve pieced together a few interviews with staff here at Grand Canyon, discussing the topic of butterflies and why they’re an important part of the ecosystem here in the park. Allie/Kiersten: This is Allie Moskal and Kiersten Kolstad. We are Interpretive park rangers here at Desert View on the South Rim, we’re seasonal rangers. Emily: I asked Kiersten why the park holds a butterfly count. Listen in as she and Robb discuss the importance of butterflies as indicators of climate change. Why do we count butterflies? Kiersten: Butterflies are like a really great indicator on climate and the environment and habitat, butterflies are gonna be greatly impacted by habitat loss whether it’s by direct human activity or indirect like climate change. Also migration of butterflies can help us learn a lot about climate change, why patterns are moving, why is data different from 20, 30, 40 years ago, it can help us clue in on the health of our environment. So I didn’t realize butterflies did play such a crucial role in identifying larger environmental issues. Robb: Kind of exciting, but also a little bit scary honestly. I know that our civilization has done pretty well with a stable climate. Hopefully we’ll try to make it stay stable in the future. That’ll be best for us and probably best for all the other living things too. Emily: I followed up with Robb to understand how the warming trends affect insects. Robb: Generally speaking climate change is bad for biodiversity but since insects the trend, they tend to favor warmer temperatures than colder, some of them might actually expand in range including really amazing butterflies that are currently in Mexico but now being seen in what’s now the United States a lot more. Emily: So now that we’ve learned why it’s important to study butterflies, let’s get practical. How do you actually count butterflies? Robb gave us some practical advice during the count. Robb: Well, the trick is, is you want it to go into the net. Kiersten: Oh, oh Allie try that. (laughing) Robb: I’m so good at advice. (laughing) It’s not going to go in there by itself. Or it could you never know? Allie: I got it! Robb: Yay! Then lift up and it’ll fly toward the top hopefully. Kiersten: Fly to the top! Robb: Is it doing it? You’re getting it. Let’s have a look Emily: We caught and identified a variety of butterflies but there is one special butterfly sought after here on the North Rim. Allie is eager to find one. Allie: So do you guys ever see the Kaibab Swallowtail? Robb: Yeah. Allie: Is it pretty rare to see? Robb: It’s always a treat. Allie: Always a treat. I would love to see them, that would make my day. Robb: I’d love you guys to see it too. Emily: What is this special butterfly Allie is hoping to see? Let’s listen to Robb discuss the Kaibab Swallowtail with some visitors on the trail. Robb: It’s a special butterfly, it’s really sought after by collectors and a lot of them feel upset because it’s hard for them to get permit to collect in the park. We actually have a really interesting story about poachers. Actually it was here and other parts of the world, you’re not allowed to collect at all in national parks. I have actually permit to bring them back to the insect collection. Visitor: Yeah, it’s for science. Robb: Exactly. But for myself, if I was just bringing these home for myself to look at, put in a box and stockpile. To me, that’s kind of weird. Visitor: It’s super selfish! Like collecting arrowheads on the trail, ‘no this belongs to me now,’ no provenance, no nothing. Robb: And one step beyond there that is really scary, and it’s addictive I think is, I could sell these. Back in the 80s they were selling them for $300 for a male and female pair, but today it’s probably much higher. So our rangers need to keep an eye out for poachers. Emily: Wait, tell me more about these poachers… Robb: So what they did instead of falling off into the cliff like I nearly did, they would walk down the well maintained, albeit a lot of mule urine, North Kaibab trail and they would find these little side canyons that had the host plant that these butterflies really, really like. There’s like an oil inside of that plant and they just have to have it as a nutrient otherwise they won’t survive. They will go ahead and just walk off trail and grab as many of these caterpillars. But the caterpillar it’s got the most ridiculous, I mean it’s like a clown. It is black and pink striped horizontal with orange polka dots, so it’s like some sort of cool sock you’d wear from the 1960s, that’s what this crazy thing looks like. So they’re easy to spot and they’re just grabbing these things and then basically raising them at their houses until they became butterflies. They were catching some butterflies with nets, and they were like these little collapsible nets that they had that Bioquip sells. I think they called it the ‘park service special,’ just something you could hide really well and if a ranger was to pass by you could say ‘oh I’m just checking out these plants here, I’m a botanist’ or ‘I’m looking for birds, see I’ve got binoculars’ and you could hide your net really easy. But in the case of the Kaibab Swallowtail, they didn’t really have to net anything. In fact if you net it, that butterfly already had a life, it’s probably reproduced, it’s been flying around for a while and it will show on the wings, all these imperfections. For me, collecting for science, I don’t care if it’s got imperfections as long as it’s identifiable. I think it’s beautiful whether it’s fresh from pupa or not. These guys they’re selling them on the black market so they’re looking for pristine and they’re selling them since gendered sepsis of the two, the male and female look a little different, they would sell them in pairs so male and female pair. Back in the late 80s they were getting $300 each pair. So those caterpillars they raise them in their houses and as soon as they emerge from their pupae they are dead day one as an adult they never had a chance to get out there and do their adult thing, which by and large is to reproduce, so kinda sad but they didn’t want the imperfections that nature brings to their butterflies. So that’s how they made quite a lot of money and I’m not sure if the punishment was enough. Honestly, I don’t know if it’s ongoing or not but it’s the one and only case I know of. Besides they were actually poaching other butterflies around the world but in North America mostly national parks and fish and wildlife areas and eventually they got caught. Emily: Wow what a story. Turns out though this coveted butterfly isn’t even an endemic subspecies after all. We have new scientific research Robb will explain. Robb: The Kaibab swallowtail is not a subspecies it is not a separate segregate. It is a darker population of an extant, Minori subspecies of the Indra Swallowtail, so that’s really recent, it hasn’t been published yet. As it turns out to disappoint poor Baird, who, he’s the author, he’s the one that determined ‘hey this is a new species, or a new subspecies’ looks like he’s wrong, but I think it’s understandable. The phenology, that’s kinda how a gene is expressed, you can see it usually in what a butterfly or organism looks like. Emily: That was a lot of science talk. But let’s be honest most of us don’t have degrees in life sciences. That doesn’t mean we can’t participate in events like the butterfly count. Allie and Kiersten will elaborate. You all were citizen scientists for the North Rim butterfly count. Can you kind of define what that means to be a citizen scientist? Allie: Yeah a citizen scientist is a volunteer that participates in various projects that help the park service and every year the national park service puts on a butterfly count every July to keep track of the species that are living in the area. Kiersten: Also I feel like there are a lot of things that you can do to help park efforts without needing like an in-depth science background. And so being a citizen scientist anyone can learn how to identify and count butterflies. There are lots of things in the park that you can volunteer with that you don’t necessarily need an in-depth science background for, maybe with a little training and then you can help with a larger effort. That’s kind of crucial for being a citizen scientist. Allie: able to collect some specimens, so just learning to identify species, learning their habitat, their host plant, how to collect the species. We definitely learned a lot from Robb. Emily: Would you recommend the citizen science project to friends and coworkers? Kiersten: Oh yeah it was a lot of fun, again, it helps you find a new way to appreciate your environment. I feel like a lot of people go on a hikes and are like ‘oh it’s so beautiful out here’ but there are so many small intricacies in nature and just having that training to be able to look and identify new things and understand what role they play in the environment, it just adds a new sense of appreciation for nature. So I absolutely would recommend it to anybody. Allie: Kiersten and I were both really excited to come up to the North Rim. This was Kiersten’s first time to the North Rim, this was my second. So to be able to explore another part of the park that we work at was really exciting. Emily: So do you have any advice for people that are listening from outside the Grand Canyon that maybe they could do to help support the pollinator population in their home communities? Kiersten: Also because butterfly count did go to the North American Butterfly Association I did start looking on their website and it looks like they do have some efforts where you can start arrange your own community butterfly count. You can get resources there for what butterflies are in your area. That would be a great place to start to get some resources on how to help support these populations. Like Allie was saying, if you have the ability to plant anything that any native pollinator likes, it’s always a good idea, a lot of our pollinators are threatened. Emily: Yeah, we’ll definitely post links to some of those websites where people can find out about their regional native plants that would support pollinators and help them with some basic how to plant gardens in their home communities. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us, do you have any final message for the listeners? Kiersten: It’s really cool to get out there and to learn a new skill and spend your day out in nature. That sounds so silly and maybe cliché but I think everybody should go find something local in their area. It doesn’t have to be a national park, it could be a local park, get out and volunteer. You really learn a new way to appreciate your environment and want to work for protecting and preserving that environment. So I hope everyone does find something they can get behind in their home town. Allie: It’s definitely easy to find somewhere to volunteer. Pretty much every national park has some type of citizen scientist project going on. I did one back at Indiana Dunes National Park for collection of sap and making maple syrup. There’s always something going on, might not be a national park, but for sure state parks are always looking for people to clean up trash. I see that all the time, so looking for volunteers to do that even. Just committing to your community to help make it a better place. Kiersten and I had a really great time at the North Rim doing the butterfly count, really happy we were able to come out and join you. Emily: Allie and Kiersten left the butterfly count with some new knowledge, but also new friends and new perspective. I will end this podcast with some final thoughts from Robb on that same note. Robb: You know, the ultimate goal is not to inventory butterflies as much as it is to encourage people that have an interest I nature to observe and often times as we are humans we learn from each other, we pick up on each other’s passions. So I think that’s really the ultimate goal of butterfly counts, is to get people that have similar interests together and to kind of enrich that social psychology of nature observation. I think it’s something that we’ve always had, ever since we’ve been people we’ve always been nature observers. I think there’s something very therapeutic and enriching in butterfly watching, bird watching. The same thing goes I think for people who hunt and fish. Might not be everybody’s bag but I still think it’s important to our psychology to recognize that we are a biophilic species. We are not something that is separate from nature. We need it. We need it for inspiration and learning and to learn more about ourselves. It’s just something a little bit innate in nature observation and appreciating all the variety and beauty not just the extreme geology of the Grand Canyon but all the little tiny things too can actually be pretty fabulous if you spend the energy to look into it.

Blurb for website: Have you ever thought, “Wow, wouldn’t it be cool to be a park ranger?” Well, it turns out you can be, for a day at least! Join us for a conversation about how to participate in the scientific research operations of a National Park as a Citizen Scientist. You can make a difference and probably have some fun too!

Grand canyon is a colorful place, but the creatures who live hear are just as dazzling Listen in to learn more about some of Grand Canyonb's most colorful characters and how they contribute to the community of life in the canyon and your backyard at home.

Theodore Roosevelt: A Complicated Legacy

Transcript

Show notes: Over the summer of 2021, a temporary exhibit was placed up at Roosevelt Point on the North Rim. Three times during the season, the prompts were changed, and this podcast is a digitization of the visitor responses that were shared in a journal asking questions related to Theodore Roosevelt.

LAUREN CISNEROS (HOST) My name is Ranger Lauren. Over the last two months I created a temporary exhibit at Roosevelt Point on the North Rim. I simply wanted to create a unique visitor experience at a beautiful viewpoint with the name of a very famous President. What I didn't know were the complexities that Teddy Roosevelt contained. This is Behind The Scenery. After a lot of research, I decided to create something that visitors could see all sides of Roosevelt in a short and concise manner. At Roosevelt Point, there is a very clear view of the Bright Angel Fault and you can clearly see the vivid colors and the various layers of rock in the Grand Canyon.

At first, I had very plain print outs of quotes said by TR and a photo of him with a different prompt. These laminated pieces of paper were stapled to an old and bare informational display board.

These quotes were ripped down by visitors three times. I had to re-print and re-evaluate why this was happening. After talking with co-workers, we came up with the idea to make it look more professional by branding it and creating an all in one poster using inDesign. This idea worked, and the only person who has ripped it down since is me!

I was drawn to create some kind of programming here because at the same time in developing this, I was researching a ton on wilderness and Teddy Roosevelt’s involvement. I saw this as an opportunity to bring this viewpoint back to life with some interp.

After a few evolutions I found a NPS brown display case and put my prompts and quotes designed together in one document in a visually appealing way.

There was nothing fancy about it. I found an old waterproof box laying around and found some NPS staff issued journals for visitors to write in. I found a brick and placed it on top of the box, so it didn’t blow away! Honestly, I never anticipated for this to last all season long.

When I started working at the North Rim, my understanding of TR was that he was the father of the conservation movement. I really didn’t know about his involvement with the eugenics movement or his views on race. In the winter months I teach adaptive skiing at Beaver Creek in Colorado so hearing about his views on eugenics was pretty upsetting.

The first quote read, “The light has gone out of my life” the day that he lost his mother and wife on the same day. Teddy Roosevelt was inspired by the Grand Canyon and went into nature often with conservationist John Muir to grieve.

The second quote posted was, “The only man who doesn’t make mistakes is the man who doesn’t do anything.” Roosevelt protected wildlife and public lands by creating the United States Forest Service (USFS) and establishing 150 national forests, 51 federal bird reserves, 4 national game preserves, 5 national parks, and 18 national monuments by enabling the 1906 American Antiquities Act. TR protected over 230 million acres of public land.

The third quote read, “I don’t go as far to think that all good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.”

TR was a leader in the eugenics movement (“a belief that the genetic quality of the human race can be improved by the use of selective breeding”), and a believer in the white, European decent being superior to other ethnicities. The quote above is an example of that. However, without TR – the National Park Service might have never been created.

With all these quotes, I wanted the visitor to really feel empowered to write about their opinion of TR. I had three prompts I changed out throughout the summer.

The first one was: What would you most like to discuss with Teddy Roosevelt here, now? What would you say? I was genuinely interested in what others knew and understood about Teddy Roosevelt.

OHLSON: June 23rd, 2021 While I am glad you fought to protect our world; I wish you endeavored to protect the people to whom it belonged. You have preserved the rugged beauty for many white generations.

A complicated man.

CISNEROS: June 26th, 2021 “Teddy, Without the death of your loved ones, would you have NOT saved our precious lands? Would you have continued to hunt until the last animals were poached? Would you still be the typical human; death and destruction of our planet?”

KENT: June 28th, 2021 Manifest destiny was a white settler practice of colonialism that justified the oppression of our indigenous peoples.

What is the name of this land? Names spoken and carried by the wind over this canyon for thousands of years.

White names for ancient places erases our history.

We are not in the past.

CISNEROS: June 29th, 2021 the light has gone out of my life too, Teddy… when I lost my children to drugs.

A grieving mother with a broken heart.

CISNEROS: June 29th, 2021 Though history is complicated by the many interpretations, biases and perspectives of those involved and those observing, we are thankful for the good intentions that helped to protect places like this from the worst impulses of humanity.

More gratitude is owed to the first Natives who demonstrated what it means to live in harmony with nature. Always remember that humans are a part of nature, not part from it.

CISNEROS: Based on the multitudes that TR contained, would you change the name of this viewpoint? Why or why not? With all that is going on in the world today – I wanted to know what others thought if we should or should not re-name this viewpoint. TR was complicated – should we honor him? Or should we not?

HANSEN: July 3rd, 2021 Dearest Teddy, so glad your wisdom preserved this beautiful sight. If a man or woman spent a lifetime making nothing but mistakes, you had the vision, wisdom and drive to preserve this great canyon that in itself is worthy of having your name attached to it.

CISNEROS: July 5th, 2021 Keep Teddy’s name at this beautiful spot to commemorate all he did to preserve this American Landscape. A man cannot and should not be boiled down to a singular act – good or bad but can be recognized for both. In this respect, Teddy Roosevelt can certainly be celebrated for this contribution.

I am sorry though that we treated the indigenous people with hate.

CISNEROS: Mr. President, you were a man of your time! It is impossible for me to judge you by our current standards as I would hope I would not be judged by people 100-150 years from now.

The good you accomplished by establishing the National Park System is greatly appreciated by thousands today. For this and other good measures you performed, we are grateful. For the tragedies you endured, we share your sorrow.

CATON: July 8th, 2021 “Hey Teddy, you inspired me as a child to become the Geology Professor that I am today. You were a great man, but also a racist man. I can’t look past that fact, but you still are the man that helped pushed me to what I am today. Thank you & shame on you.”

BARDEN: July 12th, 2021 “Dear TR, thank you for your wonderful efforts to preserve such beautiful lands. However, I must disagree with your opinion about European decent being superior. If you were alive today, you would see how wonderful diversity is in America. Surely a man with your intelligence and passion for nature would agree.”

CISNEROS: “Mr. President, I have read about you extensively in my younger years and became a great admirer of yours. Your accomplishments are many and the creation of this National Park and the National Park System that followed was but one of them. I do remember, despite my admiration, being shocked and saddened when I read about your feelings and attitudes towards Native Americans. But I also know that you had travelled the west and spoke to many settlers there who described what they saw as atrocities committed by Native Americans, who were only trying to protect themselves from their lands.

Knowing what I do of your character, I would like to think that were you alive today, your attitudes would have evolved.

CISNEROS: July 13th, 2021 Dear Teddy Roosevelt The world is different now. It is a lot more different than I think you’d ever consider. We are facing challenges you’d never begin to imagine, and I’m not sure we should be asking for your advice either… but that is the big question, isn’t it? Are you someone to look up to? Are you a hero? Does the good that you did in the word erase you from your crimes? I understand that you grew up in a world where this was normal… but does this excuse you? Does the time of your birth excuse the prejudice that you pushed into the very roots of yourself? You led well, that can’t be denied. I am just not entirely sure that it means you are right.

Rest in peace, or maybe not.

SHALLA: July 14th, 2021 Dear Teddy, your quote, “the only man who doesn’t make mistakes is the man who doesn’t do anything” seems prescient considering the contrast of this record. You made mistakes, even horrific ones. All men do. But you also made triumphant choices, like this park here. Let’s stop highlighting the worst things someone has done, but in most cases, let’s remember the honorable things people have done. We all have complex stories, let’s remember that.

CISNEROS: How do you form opinions about people? I wanted visitors to reflect within themselves for this prompt. I definitely once again was taken away by the stories shared.

VELTKAMP: August 11, 2021 I love every human’s soul. But I don’t have to love every human’s personality. I just have to remember the difference. BRENNAN: August 2021 Laurell K. Hamilton said, “There are wounds that never show on the body that are deeper and more hurtful than anything that bleeds.” Everybody suffers in their own specific way, no matter who they are, what they look like; everyone is the same. We hurt the same, we just perceive it differently and have other ways of expressing it. So just because someone looks okay on the outside, does not mean they are okay. It is OK to hurt, it is not a weakness. KRAUS: August 2021 All people do great and terrible things. We can only focus or judge them, hoping the good outweighs the bad. Is the good in your life something you’ll be remembered for? Or is it the bad? CRISPIN: August 31, 2021 Teddy R was a contradicting person. In many ways he was wonderful, in other ways, less so. I think that some of the ugly things he believed was a function of the times he lived in. Sadly, in some ways he never overcame them. However, I tend to believe if he lived today, he would have never said or thought those things. Teddy did a lot of the things that have created the improved world we enjoy today. His actions more than his words are what I remember him for. Actions are what I judge others by more than their words. May we all seek to live in such a way that make our actions worth remembering. May also such actions outweigh the dumb things we have said at one point or another. P.KENT: AUGUST 14 2021 An opinion of a person is based upon what the observer brings in their experience. If they are taught prejudice from an early age it is hard for them to form another opinion. With personal experiences with another person who is from a different background, we can learn that what we were taught may be incorrect. Prejudice can be washed away by experiencing new places and peoples and cultures where we can learn to appreciate the diversity. Roosevelt certainly appreciated the diversity of nature in establishing the national parks. For this aspect of Roosevelt, we can all be thankful. It was not taught to him as prejudice was taught. He came to the realization through experience. Perhaps if he had spent the time to learn about other cultures, he would have come to appreciate human diversity as well. VELTKAMP: August 26, 2021 Sometimes we must respect a person’s deed from his thoughts, or a person’s professional accomplishments from his personal demons.

GOODKIN: August 15, 2021 I base my opinions on actions and not words and realizing that anyone can change! I was once addicted to drugs for many years. Today I am successful in my career and have lived two lifestyles in one lifetime. My life today is a blessing. I am a good mother, daughter, and friend. Today I always try to think about what someone else is going through. You never know. Treat all people with respect!

GOODKIN: August 26, 2021 I believe that whatever negative thoughts TR had were far outweighed by the good that he did. The same with John Muir. Washington and Jefferson owned slaves. Should we disown them? I think not. Without them, the country would not be the great country it is.

GOODKIN: August 2021 We are not defined by the color of our skin or where we are from… were defined by how we treat others.

MACLANE: August 22, 2021 It varies. It can be the way they look at me or others. It can be the words they use to describe the world around them. It can be their body language, whether they appear closed off or open with facial or body expression.

I have found however, that my own meter for judgement is skewed. I limit my own ability to learn from others and expand my own viewpoint. I believe most people are fundamentally good, but they may size up and judge other individuals in an effort to protect themselves.

This behavior is not something we should immediately dismiss and forgive, but we cannot go backwards. We cannot erase. Those who are exposed to different ways of living outside of their comfort zones have the power to know that different doesn't mean bad.

With that power, the informed must challenge themselves to continue pushing past their comfort zone and truly empathize with the darkest souls and most hurtful people. It's hard work, but everyone who hurts others is doing so from a place of fear. There is some exception for truly disturbed folks.

My advice: Be patient with yourself and others. Continue to learn and challenge yourself to ask "why" when someone upsets you. Their actions may not come from a place of hate, but rather fear. And your own understanding may come from a sense of fear and an instinct to protect against the unknown. Understanding their fear gives you the power to help them see the light.

VELTKAMP: August 22, 2021 Society. In the world we’ve grown up in, at least personally, we are born and made to judge. I don’t believe there is much of a specific reason why. It’s just the hateful world we’ve all grown up in. Every day we judge both the smallest things. Our hair. Our eyes. The stretch marks on our bodies. The way someone might look & their size. Yet, I don’t think we ever just step back and admire the beauty in every person. Opinions are formed from hatred, pain, happiness, and so much more. But we can change to see the world as beautiful. I hope anyone who reads this can find some happiness. Be it from this letter or from the squirrels under the sun. Find a little happiness. You are loved. You are valued. If you don’t believe in yourself, I will. Be happy, safe, and healthy everyone.

From a young 10th grader in the Grand Canyon!

CISNEROS: We gratefully acknowledge the Native peoples on whose ancestral homelands we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant Native communities who make their home here today.

CISNEROS: Thank you for listening and for anyone listening that participated in this project – I wanted to say thank you for sharing your ideas, thoughts, and personal stories. I am so inspired by the responses I received, and I am constantly learning something new every day.

CISNEROS: Behind The Scenery is brought to you by the interpretation team at Grand Canyon National Park.

No one is infallible, not our heroes, not our leaders, not even those who pioneered for the preservation of the natural world. President Theodore Roosevelt left a complex legacy. While he helped to create the National Park Service and set out to protect and preserve public lands, he excluded Indigenous voices. What would it be like to sit down and talk with Teddy today? —What would you ask him? In this episode, park visitors share how they respond to this multifaceted human and the legacy he left behind.

Dude, It's Just a Rock

Transcript

Transcription: DUDE, ITS JUST A ROCK

(Guitar strumming music) Doug: “… kind of like the Blues Brothers. I was “on a mission from God.” I was going git this rock somehow back into the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Because I had rock remorse. I had rock regret. And I figured by returning the rock I could gain a little bit of rock redemption. And maybe even a little bit of rock renewal.

Jesse: Grand Canyon is defined by rock. The colorful layers, stacked on top of each other, tell the story of how the earth has changed. I’m Jesse, a park ranger on the North Rim and today, on the podcast, we bring you the story of one of those rocks. A small piece of Vishnu Shist nestled near the Colorado River for perhaps millions of years. Until it caught the eye of one 17 year old. It a story of a rock leaving, then returning to the Grand Canyon. It’s the story of a young man becoming a ranger. It’s the story of redemption. It’s another story from ranger Doug Crispin. His story begins here.

(Soft guitar strumming music)

Our family did a vacation to the Grand Canyon where I fell in love with the canyon. I asked my parents to drop me off and leave me, which they did. And that started a park career. Between my Junior and Senior year in high school I worked as a bus boy at the El Tovar Hotel right on the south rim of Grand Canyon National Park. And during my time there that summer I was able to make four backpack trips all the way to the bottom of the canyon.

On one of those backpack trips I had my eye on picking up a souvenir … a rock from Vishnu Shist formation. I knew enough of the Grand Canyon, that I knew that was the oldest rock available in the canyon, or layers exposed. And I thought if I could pick up a Vishnu Shist rock, that would be pretty cool to add to my rock collection.

In the seventh grade, I had a science teacher who inspired me to learn about earth sciences, geology and rocks. And that’s how I got interested in collecting rocks. My parents encouraged me to start a rock collection, which I did. My mother was a librarian at a local high school. She had connections with the public library in town. And she was able to arrange for me to display my rock collection in the local public library. In a glass case. The newspaper reporter and photographer came out and took a picture of sitting right in front of the glass case. I was age 13. It was pretty heady stuff to have my picture taken when I was just in the seventh grade … a picture in the newspaper.

I picked up that pink rock … its about the size of an egg, I packed it out of the canyon, and I just kind of hung to it over the years. I kind of lost interest in collecting rocks in High School. Became more interested in body surfing and auto mechanics and backpacking and other interests. But for some reason, I hung onto this rock as I got rid of all the rest of my rocks in my rock collection.

Song (based on the Beatles song “Get Back”): Once there was a lad who Went to the Grand Canyon Where he found a special stone Picked it up and put it in his back pocket Then he took the rock back home Back ………

Doug’s summer working at the El Tovar started him on the path to becoming a career park ranger. The rock from the bottom of the Grand Canyon followed him as he moved from park to park, first as a summer seasonal, then as a permanent ranger. It travelled with him to 13 different national parks, before he and his wife settled down in Oregon.

Twenty years after I worked at the Grand Canyon, I was living in Oregon. I married a former park ranger. We moved to Oregon, started a family and our son was a year and one-half years old. And I decided to create a time capsule for his second birthday. For Christmas, I sent out empty envelopes to all four of his grandparents who were still alive, my wife and I had an empty envelope each. We had a couple months to decide what treasures and items we wanted to put into our personal envelopes which would be locked into our son’s time capsule, on the occasion of his second birthday. I remember a few things I put in there: my college ponytail that I cut off, my draft card from the Vietnam War era, a marathon medal, and I had also put that Grand Canyon rock in there.

We sealed up the time capsule. It sat on the shelve of our son’s bedroom for the next 16 years. And when he graduated from High School, and turned 18, we called for a gathering of the clan. And we were going to open up our son’s time capsule. Which we did. It was a grand occasion. I notified the television and the print press. And people came from 6/7 different states and we had a great time opening up the time capsule.

I took custody of all of the contents of the time capsule as my son went away to college, and later became a world traveler, living twice in Thailand, Germany and currently living in Japan.

The rock, accompanied by Doug’s college ponytail, and the other contents of the time capsule, sat on a shelf in the garage. It wasn’t until the spring of 2021, that Doug was organizing his things, and getting ready to return to the North Rim for the summer, that he rediscovered the time capsule. He was immediately drawn to the small pink rock. As he picked it up, the memories came flooding back. There was also something new.

And then as I held that Grand Canyon rock in my hand, I thought back to my career, as a career park ranger. Thinking about the many times that I have experienced kids, primarily, that would walk into my ranger station or my visitor center, and proudly showing me their treasure that they have found in the park. Treasures like a freshly picked flower, a pinecone, a live lizard, a shiny rock, things like that. And it was my job as the attendant park ranger to somehow give them an educational message: “yes that’s a beautiful flower that you have there young lady, but really you shouldn’t pick up rocks, shouldn’t pick up the flowers, you shouldn’t pick up the pine cones and what not, those are all protected items. That’s a very pretty flower you have there but please put it back where you found it.”

It was difficult, but it was a duty that park ranger across America have to do regularly. In fact yesterday, in my duties, I saw a woman picking flowers in a meadow and I had to go remind her “those are nice flowers, take all the photographs you want, but please don’t pick the flowers and put them back where you found them.”

So here I am, a career park ranger, with a rock from the bottom of the Grand Canyon. And I started to develop a little bit of guilt and remorse over having that rock. But it wasn’t my rock. I did have to contact my son in Japan and ask permission … if I could return that rock to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. I explained “that I gave it to you as the second generation, it was part of my really cool rock collection when I was a kid, but, it was good intentions, but a bad idea and illegal. And I would like to return it.”

And so he was on board with that. He said “sure, go ahead. I think that’s a good cause.”

So then I developed a mission. I was on a mission … kind of like the Blues Brothers. I was “on a mission from God.” I was going git this rock somehow back into the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Because I had rock remorse. I had rock regret. And I figured by returning the rock I could gain a little bit of rock redemption. And maybe even a little bit of rock renewal.

(song) Back Put it back Put it back to where it once belonged “Put the rock back, son!”

Doug brought the rock with him when he returned to the North Rim for the summer. At the beginning of each season, rangers sit down with their supervisors and discuss their long term and short term goals.

Typically, young up and coming rangers say “I want to be Chief Ranger someday. I want to be park superintendent in ten years, I would like to be Park Director in 20 years, or something like that. But my goals were a little odd, I guess. I revealed my plan to my boss. I said I have the rock I picked up 52 years ago and I am on a mission to return it back into the bottom of the Grand Canyon. If I can do that, I’ll feel I had a successful season.

And I thought … she probably thought “well that’s kind of a weird goal and objective,” but you know I was just keepin’ it real and being honest with her. So she was one of the few people I shared my plan with.

And my plan was to try and get into shape, and hike that rock back down into the canyon on a long weekend if I could do it. But I kept my plan on the down low for two reasons.

One, I had a friend of mine I know if I shared it with him his reaction would be “Dude, it’s just a rock. Why bother? It’s no big deal, man. Just let it go. Forget about it. You’re making too big a deal out of it.” So I definitely didn’t want to share it with that friend!

And the other thing I had on my mind … it’s not easy, you know, at my age, to make it all the way to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. From the North Rim side it’s even harder. So I didn’t want to announce my plan and not be able to achieve that goal. So I did keep it on the down low.

Hiking in Grand Canyon is hard. To get to the Colorado River from the North Rim and back requires hiking nearly 30 miles with more than 12,000 feet of elevation change. Temperatures can be extreme. For highs near 120 degrees at the river, to lows in the teens on the North Rim. It is extremely important that hikers choose the right season, an itinerary that is suitable for their fitness and experience, and train for their trip.

Fortunately for Doug, the best place to prepare for hiking in the Grand Canyon, is Grand Canyon.

So in the ensuing month working on the job I did some patrols on the job, lots of hiking after work and on weekends. I logged over 80 trail training miles, including four long day hikes into the Grand Canyon. And about a month later I figured I’m in shape, I think I can try this.

I reported to the Backcountry Office, secured a three-day backpacking permit, loaded up my pack, including my Grand Canyon rock and headed down the Canyon.

The first day I hiked 6 ½ miles, down 4200 feet. Set up camp for two nights … a place called Cottonwood Camp halfway between the North Rim and the Colorado River and Phantom Ranch. Day two was the big challenging day of my trip. My plan was to wake up early, with a day pack only, and hike about a 15 mile day hike, all the way to the Colorado River and then back to my Cottonwood Camp. Which I left shortly after 4 in the morning and by 7, I was at Phantom Ranch, which is not on the river. It’s a short distance up stream from the river but there I rested and recovered. I wrote a couple postcards, and then threw my day pack on again.

I said, you know, I have to make it all the way to the Colorado River. And boom, but as soon and I saw and heard the river and smelled the Colorado River it brought me back 52 years to when I was a kid and first hiked to the bottom of the canyon.

I got really excited at that point. I pulled the rock out of my pack. I wondered over towards the Silver Bridge, one of the two footbridges across the river. I pondered the history of the rock, and gave it a big toss, threw it down towards, not into the river, but down towards the river. And I said goodbye to the rock. And, I felt great! It felt wonderful. If it’s possible to have a sweaty pack and hiking in over 100 degree temperatures, I floated all the way back to Cottonwood Campground. I just felt I had done the right thing and it felt great.

I was back in Cottonwood Camp. Hung out in the creek the rest of the day, read a book, hung out in camp, and my mission was partly accomplished so I still had to make it out of the canyon. (song) Fifty-two years later Back at the Grand Canyon With that very special stone Hiked it to the bottom of the Grand Canyon Then he put that rock back home

Back, put it back …

So I spent my final night at Cottonwood Campground, there was no tent. I slept on top of my sleeping bag. I woke at 4 in the morning. The moon was up. I started up-trail with my red headlamp on, but after a short 5 or 10 minutes, I turned that off. I got completely accustomed to the moonlight hiking. Had the whole canyon to myself that early and I was singing Cat Stevens: I’m being followed by a moon shadow all the way up the trail until the sun came up.

I was still floating on air. And I made it back to my cabin by about 9 in the morning. Grabbed a shower. Cooked up the pizza. And I celebrated. Mission Accomplished! (Song) Put it back to where it once belonged Back Put it back Put it back to where it once belonged. “Put the rock back, son!”

Mission accomplished.

The rock that had weighted so heavily on Doug, was back where it belonged. But Doug’s mission was always about more than just the rock.

And then, I started thinking about this. Reflecting on my mission. The rock redemption story. And are there any life lessons to be learned from this? And I can say, from a personal point of view: yes. There are several.

And the most obvious life lesson is: Don’t pick up any natural or cultural items in the national parks. They are all protected by law. Leave everything that you find where it is. And I wouldn’t have gotten in this predicament all these years later.

And the other thing I thought about is: It’s never too late, or you’re never too old to do the right thing in life. If it’s the right thing to do, then do it. Who cares how old you are?

And then the bigger picture understanding I think I gained from this story was: Try to make it through life with a minimum amount of regrets.

You hear stories all the time of people who have a falling out with a family member or a friend and they never have a chance to reconnect with that person. And you have to carry around that weight of that unfulfilled, undone business on your mind for the rest of your life.

So the biggest takeaway from this story for me is: don’t have any undone business.

Do you have a thank you that has been left unsaid?

Is there somebody who has influenced you, an influential person that maybe you haven’t sat down and told them that you appreciated what they did for you? Their inspiration.

You know, is there an apology out there that you need to make?

Then my questions is: What are you waiting for?

I would say:

Write that note. Say I’m sorry. Say I love you. Say thanks.

So basically I’m saying: Throw that rock. Because, dude, it’s more than just a rock in you life.

And I can guarantee you this: if you throw that rock, if you live your life with a minimum amount of regrets, you will feel great inside, for the rest of your life.

My name is ranger Doug. I’m a summertime ranger at the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park, and this is my story of rock redemption.

(Soft guitar strumming music) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to Doug for sharing his story and writing the parody song Put It Back, with apologies to Paul McCartney.

Behind the scenery is brought to you by the interpretation team at Grand Canyon National Park.

Audio production is by Wayne Hartlerode with music by Doug Crispin, Hannah Veltkamp, Brian Lozano, Mike Bahrmasel, Ana Stevenson and Wayne Harterode.

We gratefully acknowledge the native people who’s on ancestral lands we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant native communities who make their home here today. (song) Back Put it back Put it back to where it once belonged Back Put it back Put it back to where it once belonged. “Put the rock back, son!”

A small piece of Vishnu Shist nestled near the Colorado River for perhaps millions of years. Until it caught the eye of one 17 year old with an impressive rock collection. His story begins with carrying his rocky burden out of the canyon and follows his rocky path to the edge of redemption. It’s the story of a young man becoming a ranger. It's everyone's story of redemption. How do you touch renewal at the rocky bottom?

Adam Schallau: Capturing the Canyon

Transcript

Adam: My name is Adam Schallau and I am a full-time professional photographer, and I actually specialize in landscape photography which seems to be pretty rare nowadays. I’m a guy that came to Grand Canyon 20 years ago, thought that would be my only visit, I spent one night. I came back 10 years later and absolutely fell in love and for about the past 10 years now, my passion and my specialty has been Grand Canyon from rim to river. (Sounds of thunder and rain) Kate: My name is Kate, and you're listening to an episode of Behind the Scenery, Canyon Cuts. How did you get into photography? Adam: I grew up being really into art in general not really photography, probably like a lot of people, I didn't necessarily see photography as an art form perhaps. I saw something, as a tool for documenting, you know, what was happening. But I started out with an interest, just like a lot of kids, in drawing. That morphed into painting, mostly working in oils, but I continued experimenting with different types of art, and when I was in high school I was into working with clay on the wheel, still painting as well. Eventually, it was like “okay I got to start thinking about a real career” and art kind of got pushed to the side. So there were several years where I just didn't have a creative outlet and, uh, after High School I was invited to work at a high altitude field research station in Colorado. A place called the Rocky Mountain Biological Laboratory, I actually spent two summers working up there. And while I was there, one of the things I did on the side, I assisted a guy who was a wildlife biologist by trade, I guess he'd say. But he was also a landscape photographer. He was in his mid-to-late fifties and had bad knees, bad back and he said “Hey, do you want to carry my gear?” This is cool, I get to climb mountains, ride mountain bikes. So I started doing that, and I honestly thought initially it was the stupidest things possible. I couldn't understand why we’d get up at 4 O’Clock in the morning to climb a mountain and photograph sunrise, set up this massive large format view camera. It was just this bizarre world to me but that was my introduction to photography. And again, initially it did not take with me. Many years later I started going on trips myself across the American West. And of course, you take your camera with you, and this is back in the film era still. I took the camera to document the trip. And after my first trip, I realized when I got my film back you can do more than document … you can actually put your own interpretive slant into what you're doing in terms of how you build your composition and what kind of film you use to record the light and color. That was kind of the start. I didn't have a clue what I was doing but I could see that there was a real possibility there to share my own vision of what I was seeing. Kate: So, you mentioned your first time at Grand Canyon was just a one-night stay … Adam: That was South Rim, and to the best of my recollections, right around, it was like September 1999 and I was with my wife, Sally. We had actually planned to spend, I believe, three nights and we were camping at Mather Campground, and we hadn’t done a lot of research to be honest, but we did have reservations, so we had a campsite, and we showed up … and had no idea where to go, and I was so very, very new to photography. We followed the crowds ended up at Mather Point, with half the other visitors in the park, heh heh. I was awestruck by what was in front of me. I was just awestruck and intimidated … I had no idea how do you start putting a composition together and the light began to happen and I think I took about three photographs put the camera down and I just enjoyed the show that nature was putting on that evening and it was kind of an end of monsoon type evening some nice clouds in the sky. No real theatrics it wasn't raining, there were no rainbows. It was just very soft, pleasant and a real moment of peace and tranquility. That was fantastic. We went back Mather that evening, we camped add Froze! Heh heh! I had no idea how cold it could get in Arizona. I think a lot of us have heard that story over and over and over again. I had no idea how cold it could get in the desert in the middle of the night and not considered the elevation and long story short we spent the one night before moving on. And, I honestly thought well we've been here, and we've seen Grand Canyon was kind of my thought about the experience. How much more could there be? And again, I had no clue. (Sounds of thunder and rain) My first river trip down the Colorado River through Grand Canyon was an 18-day oar trip in September into October of 2015, so, only 5 years ago and still fairy new in my career in photography and to be honest struggling with the business aspect of it, trying to make a living. But the first person I had met in Flagstaff was David Edwards. And Dave, for those who don't know him, is a National Geographic published photographer, river guide with hundreds of trips under his belt as well. And Dave in September of that year, 2015, was getting ready to run an art trip through the Canyon and my wife said if you have to put the cost of that trip on every credit card we have you need to do it because you need to go down the river with Dave. And we made it work and I signed up for this 18 day trip. It was really an incredible experience because it ended up being a very small trip there only five participants, we had five 18-foot oar boats, we actually had six crew members. We had five people rowing, five river guides plus a swamper. So, the passengers were outnumbered by guides, that was neat in itself, but we had Dave leading, and we had some other big names on the trip. And not to name drop, but just to share what a special experience it was, we had a woman who most people know by the name of Martha Clark she's now Martha Stewart … Martha is one of those Grand Canyon Legends. We had Andy Martin rowing a boat as well, a former park ranger, photographer, river guide, just an incredible individual. Joseph Bennion who is a potter from Spring City Utah was also rowing. Peter Nisbet, who is a credible painter of Grand Canyon and the American West. Here I am, this relatively new guy, surrounded by all these incredibly talented people who really know the canyon, who have incredible passion for the canyon and the river and I can't think of a better way to have been introduced to the world below the rim along the river corridor. To see the world through their eyes and to hear their stories.

(Sounds of thunder and rain) Kate: Do you think there's any like big challenges or misconceptions about photography that a lot of people might not be aware of? Adam: Oh, hah hah, huh. Oh boy, where to start. Oh yeah, because I had my own … that it wasn’t or couldn’t be an art form. The challenges…there’s this belief that the product has to be finished in the camera. And I just I don't believe that's true. It’s easy to drop Ansel Adams name into these conversations. For those people are familiar with his work, or how he worked. The negatives, the film, was just the beginning of the process, and once he got into the dark room he was doing things called dodging and burning for example, which is darkening and brightening parts of the image so that we can kind of control the viewer’s journey through the photograph, you know, drawing attention to certain areas and trying to not draw attention to other areas and we still do that today, digitally. So of course we still end up being asked the question “Do you photoshop your images?” and the reality is it's not fair to say we all do but most of us that are into photography are doing something to our photographs. It's really open to that artist how much they do to the image. Myself, I have a lot of rules or restrictions that I place upon myself. My Photoshop work for example, is limited to contrast and tonal balance. It is really difficult to set it up in the canyon and represent it in a way that resembles something like what we saw. The camera has difficulties recording the brightness of the sky and balancing that with the darkness of the canyon. In my postproduction work I photoshop, I’m working on adjusting those balances. But I find a lot of people who perhaps don't really know the world of photography as an art form don't understand perhaps what goes into creating the final photograph that gets printed and hung on the wall. And the world wants to place a lot of restrictions on how we achieve the final result. My goal is always to be true to the landscape and true to my experience. And what I mean by that is I’m not there to add a sky for example, if it was a blue-sky day and I wanted clouds, I’m not adding clouds. I’m not adding lightning. I’m not, what I consider, faking the image. Another challenge is that a lot of people may not understand or appreciate how much effort goes into making one photograph. I may visit a particular location three, four, five times, maybe even more, before I get the photograph I really want. Kate: Do you have a particular process that helps you, like capturing the light here, do you look for certain like cloud formations or anything like that? Adam: A lot of it is an emotional response for me, on that particular day, where I am at in my life. I spend a lot of time watching the weather forecast here at home and if it looks like the weather is going to be conducive to the kind of work I want to create then I come running up to the canyon and I’m almost always starts with a stop at Yavapai Point. Not that intend to photograph there, but Yavapai has that 180° panoramic view of the canyon and so I run up to the viewpoint and I study the weather conditions. So, I’m watching where are the clouds. Where they were, where are they at now, where does it look like they are moving towards. And then that kind of drives my decision towards where I want to go in the park. And, I do the same thing if I’m up on the North Rim. If I'm up at the North Rim it may be quick stop at the lodge, to try to see what's going on with the weather. The North Rim’s a bit more challenging in that regard because, for example, from the lodge you can't see back around to the northeast real well back towards point imperial. My process always starts with just observing what Mother Nature is giving us to work with. Kate: Do you think being a photographer has changed the way you view landscapes? Adam: Oh yes, oh definitely. I see so much more than I did before I was a photographer. Little details that maybe just get easily overlooked for example noticing how the light plays across the inner canyon. Those basement rocks become so reflective, that’s something I may have just overlooked on my first visit 20 years ago. Now, I’m just noticing all those crazy little details, how the light scatters through dust how it creates a soft painterly effect … just little details like that. Definitely photography has changed how I view the world. Also, with regard to relationships. Relationship between foreground, mid-ground, background … how shapes can play off of each other how they can help one shape highlight another shape within the canyon or frame that shape. Kate: So I see that you teach a lot of different types of workshops. Is there any specific like type of lesson or type of interaction you have with your guests that, like, stick out to your mind and brighten your day? Adam: When I teach workshops one of my goals for my students is that they grow or mature as a photographer or as an artist if that's how they want to see themselves. And what I mean by that is, when we’re learning, we tend to copy the work of others. In my line of work we call it chasing tripod holds. We try to figure out where someone else set up their tripod and place our tripod there but it's easy to get stuck in rut of making everyone else's photographs. So when I work with someone I hope to break them out of that habit. I hope to help them realize or discover their own creative vision. And that’s something we should all be doing, forever, up until our last day clicking the shutter. We’re always maturing and chasing our own vision and defining that vision. But that’s what gives me the greatest satisfaction. I can show someone how to make the kind of photos I like to make, but I want to see what they want to make, what they want to share, and when they can do that that makes me smile. (Sound of thunder and rain) Kate: What do you want for the future of Grand Canyon? Adam: Oh wow. I'd like to see people really respect it. I think it to respect it, you have to have a deep appreciation for it, and I think that's the challenge. You know what’s the average length of a visit for the typical visitor, like three and 1/2 hours, something like that. It's hard to really appreciate the place. I have seen a lot changes in the last 10 years in terms of how people interact with the park when they’re here. There’s the selfie generation now, people seem to be all that just getting the shot of themselves. I'd love to see people slow down and really appreciate the canyon. I just hope we can protect it from ourselves and protect it from being loved to death because I can definitely seeing the signs of that when I’m out at the different viewpoints. I wish people can make more than just the one trip. I was just very lucky. The luxury of time allowed me to begin seeing the canyon in a new way. I learned about the parks artist-in-residence program and ended up applying and being accepted for the next year, and it again it was that luxury of time that helped me develop that deeper appreciation for the canyon, being able to see it in different light, different weather. (Sound of thunder and rain) Kate: Thank you for listening to this episode of Canyon Cuts, a Behind the Scenery micro episode. Brought to you by the North Rim and Canyon District interpretation teams at Grand Canyon National Park Rich: Hey Holly, uh, don’t know if she’ll listen to this.

This episode was produced by Kate Hensel with assistance from Wayne Hartlerode for the National Park Service. This episode was recorded in September 2020 on the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park. Thank you, Adam Schallau for your time spent being interviewed.

Adam Schallau never imagined what he thought was his one and only visit to Grand Canyon would lead to a decade of photographing the canyon, rim to river. Asking "How much more could there be?" he was surprised by the wonderful perspective Grand Canyon reveals when you looking behind the lens. Join a professional photographer to learn pro tips about photographing Grand Canyon

In the Field with Emergency Services Volunteer Bob Derr

Transcript

Bob Derr: My name is Bob Derr, my wife Lori here, we’re volunteers here for Grand Canyon National Park. We perform fire, structural fire, I do and then we both do EMS and search and rescue and a variety of other things whatever is usually ask of us up here on the North Rim [Guitar music begins] Kate Hensel: My name is Kate and you’re listening to an episode of Behind the Scenery, Canyon Cuts. [Guitar music ends] How long have you been volunteering with the National Park Service? Bob: This is year six. Kate: And before you started volunteering with the National Park Service did you perceive it differently? How has that perhaps changed for you? Bob: Well, I don’t know if we had a perception of what it was, we were getting ready to retire, Lori had already retired, I was getting ready to and it's…you know people had talked about “Hey you can volunteer for the park service and do different duties.” We researched on the Volunteer.gov and just started researching what positions were available and then we decided to pick a park to start with, so we decided Grand Canyon. The chief asked about coming over here to the North Rim as a structural firefighter, being a paramedic which I am, and it just escalated from there. Kate: Can you give a brief background on like your professional history before retirement? Bob: Well for Lori she was an administrative assistant in a Catholic School. My history is I started in the fire service in 1971. I’m a retire battalion chief out of Myrtle Beach South Carolina. Been a paramedic since the eighties. I flew eight years as a flight medic. Was in charge of a regional urban search and rescue team in South Carolina. So background in emergency services, I have a pretty decent background. Kate: What was your first Grand Canyon experience? Bob: Jeez, our first experience we brought our kids here. I guess that was back in the mid-nineties. We were doing a cross-country trip and brought the four kids, so we brought the kids here to the South Rim. Came back again, it was about 2013, we were heading out to California for a wedding and stopped at the South Rim again with my sister and her husband. Kate: When you were looking at different volunteer opportunities was Grand Canyon high on the list or was it just something that you fell into? Bob: No, after we talked about what park do we wanted to start with, because our plan was to go to different parks each year, but Grand Canyon was on the number one to start selecting. Kate: And then what brought you back here over and over again. Bob: I think the big thing was that just we love the North Rim. I mean the community that we have here, with the rangers that we work with, you know the people from Forever Resorts. I mean everyone we work with up here, it’s like a small community that’s pretty tight nit you know. If somebody something, somebody was there to help you. So I think that’s it, the environment itself; the weather on the North Rim, the beauty of the North Rim is one of the big things that we like. We kinda like the isolation. You know, away from the crowds. The city that we used to live in we’d get 14-15 million tourists there that used to visit there. So being up here was awesome. Kate: A lot of people might not realize that the North Rim is a pretty seasonal operation, and we get a ton of snow up here, so what do you do in your winters? Bob: While the past three years usually January and February we go to the big island of Hawaii and volunteer at Hawaii Volcanos and do interp[retation] there. And one of the reasons we go back to Hawaii is because Lori is from the islands, so we get an opportunity to stay with family and visit family, and continue our service of the parks by volunteering at the volcano. Kate: Being able to spend so much time returning to the same place that a lot people may only visit once, how has that changed your view of Grand Canyon over time? Bob: I don’t know how much it’s changed my view. When we were tourist visiting the South Rim it was ”oh wow this is pretty amazing place.” But once we started volunteering up here on the North Rim we really got to see Grand Canyon. I mean not just driving by and looking at Grand Canyon but to go out to a lot of different places that most people do not get to go to, or when we’re out on patrol, and really seeing, and even it’s still a small portion of Grand Canyon National Park that we get to see. This year we started kayaking so we got to kayak up by Horseshoe Bend and down the Colorado River. So now we are getting another perspective of Grand Canyon. About the second year I was here my oldest daughter, myself, and a couple other friends hiked the rim to rim in a couple days and being down in the canyon really changes your perspective. You really, really get to see what this beautiful place is. Kate: So before you had mentioned that the community is one of the driving forces that brings you back every year. With the community also being made of so many seasonal workers who often move from one park to another and you don’t necessarily have a lot of longevity of people who stick around, how has that impacted your life? Bob: Having the permanents, again that communities there, and even the seasonals coming in, they’re seeing what the people that are here all the time haver to offer. So we get to meet a lot of new people, mostly a lot of young people that are coming in seasonal in the park service and get to meet them and learn where their from and some of the things that they think about. Kate: What are you most proud of about being on the North Rim? Bob: The thing that we’re most proud of is that we don’t hesitate to help whether it be a medical, a fire call, or we’re on a search and rescue, or somebody locks their key in their car and we go break into their car and get their key. So I think it’s service, I think that what is comes down to. Our entire lives have been service at some point. With Lori working in the school and me doing emergency services in wherever we lived so it’s giving back what it’s all about. Kate: Are there any particularly funny or interesting stories that you’d want to share? Bob: Some of things when you start talking to people cause we just talk to people while we’re taking care of them because were not with them 10-15 minutes and we’re to a hospital like you are in a big city. We’re with them for quite a while, especially if we’re transporting or waiting for a medevac helicopter. So we really get to share a lot stories between each other. Kate: How long are transports usually? If you are doing it by ground. Bob: Our longest was we had to transport a young lady that was pregnant all the way to St. George. So you look at two and a half, three hours one way on that transport. That was our longest. Usually the transports from the time we start the medical call to if we’re transporting down towards Kanab, outside of Fredonia, we actually do a change. An ambulance will come out of Utah and we’ll transfer the patient so we can back up here. It can run anywhere from two and half to three hours on that transport going down and coming back for the entire length of the call. Kate: What are some challenges or misconceptions about EMS work that you think a lot of people might not be aware of? Bob: I think the challenges that I first had when we got here, so I lived the city we had a trauma center within ten minutes of transport time for our medics. So the challenge that I had is I was used to number one: I had a trauma center real close; number two: being a battalion chief in a city like that I had resources I could have by my side within a matter of minutes if it was major incident or there was multiple patients. The challenge up here was again we’re isolated. We have one medic unit up here. We can call for helicopters, but they could be twenty, thirty, forty minutes away. So, the challenge here is definitely rural medicine and being with the patient a lot longer and having to take care of them in the process of that. So our protocols at Grand Canyon, which is pretty amazing, they have us trained to take care of those long times that we may be taking care of a patient or again our resources that we have are limited. Again one ambulance and if we have multiple calls going on, which has happened, we only have one ambulance to take care of that patient and we got to determine at that point if we can get a helicopter in here. So the challenges are just being so isolated. The closest hospital by ground is in Kanab and it’s eighty miles by ground. Kate: What do you want for the future of Grand Canyon? Bob: For me personally, and I think Lori would probably agree to this, that we would like to see the people who come here will respect this place. Not just to all the beauty of the place. What Grand Canyon means not just to the visitors but to the Native Americans, that this is their home. A lot of people I don’t think they really realize what this means to the Native Americans that are in this area. There are quite a few tribes that are here. So, for people to respect it. To see somebody leave trash or to drive where they shouldn’t be driving or to mark up the place with graffiti and that, that’s heartbreaking when you really think about it. They don’t respect it, they don’t understand it. Kate: Anything else you would like to get on the record? Bob: Number one is for people to come and enjoy what our country has to offer: Grand Canyon, and all the parks that are so close. To come and embrace what our country has, but also to think about when you retire giving back. What better way to give back to our country is to volunteer for the park service and Lori and I get to live at Grand Canyon, on the North Rim. I right now, I can look out and see the canyon from where my RV is parked. What a better opportunity to come and volunteer for the park service. [Guitar music begins] Kate: Thank you for listening to this episode of Canyon Cuts, a Behind the Scenery micro episode. Brought to you by the North Rim and Canyon District interpretation teams at Grand Canyon National Park. [Guitar fades out] To learn about volunteering for the National Park Service visit https://www.nps.gov/getinvolved/volunteer.htm and https://www.volunteer.gov This episode was produced by Kate Hensel with assistance from Wayne Hartlerode for the National Park Service. This episode was recorded in September 2020 on the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park. Thank you, Bob Derr for being interviewed and thank you Bob and Lori for your many years of service to the National Park Service and our country.

Have you ever wondered what it's like to volunteer at a National Park? Bob Derr has been volunteering on the North Rim of Grand Canyon for six years in emergency services. Join us as we discuss his time here and and the value of volunteering.

Your Questions Answered

Transcript

Kate: [00:00:00] My name is Kate and I'm a Canyon District Interpretation ranger. [00:00:04] Brendan: [00:00:04] My name is Brendan notes and I do the exact same thing as Kate. [00:00:08]Kate: [00:00:08] How many years have you been at Grand Canyon? [00:00:12] Brendan: [00:00:12] Well, I tell everyone that I couldn't hike out, which is why I had to get a job down here. But that wasn't true. I've been here for since 2014, so six seasons cause I leave in the winter. [00:00:25] Kate: [00:00:25] Nice. Same sorta, like I only worked the summer season basically. And then I'm gone in the winter. This was my first season in the Canyon and I was on the North Rim last year. [00:00:34] Brendan: [00:00:34] I think a big part of our job, especially since we're interpretation rangers or education Rangers is to answer questions. And how many questions do you think you get in a day? [00:00:44] Kate: [00:00:44] Maybe like a hundred right now because it's quiet. I bet, like when I was at the visitor center on the North room, I probably got like 500 to a thousand today. [00:00:52] Brendan: [00:00:52] Yeah. I think on the South RIm, like on the holiday weekends, I think I got probably like tens of thousands of questions, but it's more like you get the same three questions, but just like thousands of times, but what is the, what's the most common question you, you have gotten? [00:01:09]Kate: [00:01:09] In the Canyon, I think the most common question is like, is the water on Oh yeah. Like the trans Canyon pipeline. Yep. Yeah. And that, one's always really difficult to answer because I really don't know it was on when I walked by, but that doesn't mean it's still on. Cause it breaks so much. [00:01:25] That one can be a little tricky to answer. [00:01:27] I also think [00:01:28] Brendan: [00:01:28] we get a lot of like logistical questions because we do spend a large amount of our time down here. So I think people don't think we leave, which isn't true, but yeah, [00:01:40]Kate: [00:01:40] I definitely, I think that might actually be one of the most common questions I get is like, how, how does your work life work? [00:01:46]Brendan: [00:01:46] Or how do /you eat? [00:01:50] So Kate Hensel, if you could help me out because I went on the internet and searched for all the most commonly asked questions on various websites. And this is what the internet wants to know. And I was wondering if you could help me answer this. So I just punched it in Grand Canyon and like question Mark into Google and then I just let it auto populate. [00:02:15] So this is what we came up with. So the first one, Kate Hansel, are you ready? [00:02:20]Kate: [00:02:20] I'm ready [00:02:20]Brendan: [00:02:20] What is grand Canyon? [00:02:22]Kate: [00:02:22] Grand Canyon is a big drainage ditch that goes from. Well, like kind of the border with Utah to the border with Nevada just across Northern Arizona. [00:02:37]Brendan: [00:02:37] And what is grand Canyon made of? [00:02:40] Kate: [00:02:40] Rock? So many are rocks old rocks and then kind of older rocks and then crazy older rocks at the way [00:02:48] Brendan: [00:02:48] bottom [00:02:50] when ranger told me and I asked him. Something similar. He said grand Canyon is rocks with dirt and dirty rocks. That's in a way that's not an incorrect. Yeah [00:03:01] Kate: [00:03:01] so it's a lot of sedimentary rocks from, I think the Precambrian era, the most part, I think the top gets into the Cambrian era. [00:03:09]Brendan: [00:03:09] Old Rocks, kind of young Canyon. [00:03:12] Kate: [00:03:12] What are the oldest rocks at grand Canyon? [00:03:14]Brendan: [00:03:14] Well, the oldest one, well, grand Canyon is like stack of pancakes where the oldest and coldest pancakes on a stack of pancakes would be at the bottom. And as you go higher up the stack of pancakes, you have the newer and fresher pancakes. So the oldest rock would be the basement rocks at the bottom. [00:03:29] This is my favorite one grand Canyon. How big? [00:03:32]Kate: [00:03:32] Depends on where you are, but at the North rim and South rim where they. Look across the Canyon to each other. It's 10 miles across as the bird flies or 21 miles to hike. [00:03:43]Brendan: [00:03:43] What if I wanted to drive from the South, from, to the north Rim [00:03:46] Kate: [00:03:46] 200 some miles, [00:03:48] Brendan: [00:03:48] despite it only being 10 miles? [00:03:50] Kate: [00:03:50] Yeah. It's the river length of grand Canyon. So how long green Canyon is, is 277 miles. [00:03:58]Brendan: [00:03:58] And how do I get to Grand Canyon? [00:04:00] Kate: [00:04:00] You can drive to the North Rim and, South rim sides of it, and pretty much drive almost right up to the rim. It's in Northern Arizona, right below the Arizona strip. So you can like come into Flagstaff and then drive North from there, or drive from Las Vegas, which how long has that drive? [00:04:19] You can also get here on the Colorado river or coming from the green river. You're doing a big river trip. Yeah. [00:04:26]Brendan: [00:04:26] Well, you do have the dam in the way now. [00:04:27]Kate: [00:04:27] Oh, that's true. I mean, you can just jump to the dam [00:04:31] Brendan: [00:04:31] if you get enough speed and just like launch yourself [00:04:35] Kate: [00:04:35] Like a Glider on your boat. Cool. [00:04:37] Brendan: [00:04:37] I think was like one of the sweet, like ramps, like a big like evil Knievel style ramp and just hit it. [00:04:45] Kate: [00:04:45] Yeah, please don't do this. (Laughing) Disclaimer, do not do that. This is kind of a segue from the dam jumping thing. And I think I get this question a lot but it is a tad morbid. How many tourists die at Grand Caynon? I think I get that. [00:05:02] You know? I tried to like look up numbers for at one time and I couldn't get something that was like accurate. [00:05:08] It seems like anywhere between like 10 and 20 is normal for a year. [00:05:11] And I think a lot of people have the misconception that everyone's falling off the edge, which really isn't [00:05:16] true. [00:05:16] , no, that's not, I wouldn't say that's even the majority of them. [00:05:19] No, that's kind of a fraction. I think the, the river is I think a major contributor, cause it's a really big, really cold, really remote river, normal problems like car accidents and things as well. [00:05:33] Heart attacks are fairly common, [00:05:35] especially. Yeah. Grand Canyon overall is a pretty safe place. Yeah. Yeah. But stuff happens for sure. [00:05:42] What is grand Canyon West? [00:05:44] Brendan: [00:05:44] We have grand Canyon national park, which is what we're in right now. And then we have grand Canyon, which is the whole Canyon and green Canyon West is not the national park it's owned by the Walapai tribe. [00:05:56] Kate: [00:05:56] Yeah. So that is closer to Las Vegas, kind of towards the very end of grand Canyon. And then they also have the grand Canyon skywalk, which I think is another question we get it's this really big class walkway. But a lot of people don't realize , like grand Canyon West is five hours away from Grand Canyon national park. [00:06:18] Brendan: [00:06:18] So I think we get where's the glass and we have to tell them that they are nowhere near, near the skywalk, [00:06:28] [00:06:28] Sorry, man. Yeah, but I've never been on the skywalk. I've only seen it. [00:06:33] Kate: [00:06:33] I've also never, I've never been anywhere over in that area. [00:06:37] Brendan: [00:06:37] So yeah, it is interesting. Cause it is, it looks very different from this section of grand Canyon. Like kind of you get, Oh, a little bit different rocks, but you also kind of get different animals and different plants in different desert. [00:06:51] Kate: [00:06:51] Speaking of animals, what's the most dangerous animal at grand Canyon? [00:06:54]Brendan: [00:06:54] Humans. Yeah. , but if you want it, but if you want it to go more in depth, statistically, it's the squirrel, the Grand Canyon rocks squirrel, because we have at least one person bite on the hand because they're trying to feed the squirrel. [00:07:07] But I was looking up the record is 30 bites in one day. [00:07:11] Kate: [00:07:11] Whoa! [00:07:12]Brendan: [00:07:12] Yeah. And I, I'm assuming it's from multiple squirrels, but I could not confirm. [00:07:16] Kate: [00:07:16] Yeah. Maybe just a serial biter squirrel. [00:07:18] Brendan: [00:07:18] Yeah. Just go. And just malicious. Yeah. What are some other animals that you've had encounters with? [00:07:27]Kate: [00:07:27] Instead I've had encounters with, I guess they could be dangerous that they weren't cheap, especially when they're like running or in mating season. [00:07:35] And when the males are. Butting heads. Like I bet if you got too close to them, you could have a really bad day. [00:07:41]Brendan: [00:07:41] I think that the biggest danger, well, I don't think one's going to like challenge you to like a headbutting competition, but I've get kicking rocks off is probably the biggest danger that they pose. [00:07:51] Kate: [00:07:51] Yeah. Was the elk on the South rim. They freak me out a little bit. Cause like, they'll just hang out right next to the road and then step, step into it. Cause they're so used to having cars around, they don't care at all. . Yeah. And then they can get pretty aggressive during the rut or when calving season. [00:08:07] Brendan: [00:08:07] Yeah. Yeah. And I also think with grand Canyon, everyone's like super aware of like snakes and Mount lions and scorpions and herbivore. You're like, whatever, like I'm going to put my kid on the elk. [00:08:19] Kate: [00:08:19] Yeah. And then we have the bison on the North rim. We haven't had any like bison verse human incidents, but we have had a Car versus bison on the North rim and the deer and the cattle [00:08:31] Brendan: [00:08:31] The Road from Jacob Lake to gGrand Canyon. North rim is also known as the deer slalom, which is accurate. [00:08:40] Yeah. I always try to avoid driving on it at dusk or dawn last year. Cause it was always like a white knuckle drive. ] that freaks me out. Just thinking about it. All right. Moving on. Who owns grand Canyon? That's a tricky one, because as you mentioned before, there's grand Canyon national park, which is owned by the U S government native American reservation land as well. [00:09:05] Kate: [00:09:05] So you mentioned the Haulapai Tribe in Grand Canyon and then the Havasupai have land in Grand Canyon as well. But the Grand Canyon is also affiliated with 11 different tribes who have historically or culturally have significance at grand Canyon. So really who owns it is not a simple question to answer. [00:09:29] Brendan: [00:09:29] Does grand Canyon have trees? [00:09:31] Kate: [00:09:31] Yes. [00:09:31] Brendan: [00:09:31] Does grand Canyon go through Colorado? [00:09:34] Kate: [00:09:34] No. [00:09:34] Brendan: [00:09:34] Does grand Canyon have water? [00:09:36]Kate: [00:09:36] Yes. So much water. [00:09:38] Brendan: [00:09:38] I think people come down here and they're like, there's water everywhere. Cause they're in like Bright Angel Canyon and you have bright angel Creek and you have the Colorado river, but then you get on Tonto and you can look at the river, but you can't get to the river. [00:09:51] Kate: [00:09:51] Yeah. It's just their view. [00:09:54] [00:09:54] Brendan: [00:09:54] I have drank out of some questionable potholes where there's like green scum and man. After we're hiking on the Tonto all day in summer you're like this pothole, is amazing [00:10:06] delicious [00:10:07] Kate: [00:10:07] scum water, [00:10:08]Brendan: [00:10:08] Grand Canyon flavoring. [00:10:10] Kate: [00:10:10] How much time do you need at Grand Canyon? [00:10:13] Brendan: [00:10:13] I think the average visitor not counting, driving spends less than 10 minutes on the rim, but that's understandable. Cause they usually have a lot of places to go to. We're also people are just driving down the road and they're like, see Grand Canyon, like. 70 miles and then just like turn off of route 40. [00:10:33] So I think it's totally up to you. I would say at least a couple hours at least, but very famous thing. And this wasn't here. This was where someone went to a visitor center in Yosemite national park. And they say, Oh, we only have two hours at . What should we do? And apparently the ranger said, you see that rock over there, go sit on that rock and wheat, because he only have two hours at you, 70 national park. [00:10:59] So I would say as much as you can any length of time you can afford a Grand Canyon is worth it. Even if it is just like 10 minutes. Yeah. Alternatively people have literally spent their entire lives. So, you know, it's up to you really? [00:11:16] Kate: [00:11:16] Why is Grand Canyon called Grand Canyon? [00:11:19] Brendan: [00:11:19] It had a bunch of different names for a while. But I think John Wesley Powell, who did an expedition via the river through Grand Canyon was kind of credited naming for it. But I think it had a bunch of different names way before Grand Canyon, but that's the name that just kind of stuck? I don't even think John Wesley Powell is like a hundred percent confirmed with naming Grand Canyon, but yeah. [00:11:44] Kate: [00:11:44] Why Grand Canyon famous? [00:11:48] Brendan: [00:11:48] Cause it's very big. I think that's it right? [00:11:54]Kate: [00:11:54] Like, look at all those layers, [00:11:57]Brendan: [00:11:57] but I guess it's also famous because the miners didn't make any money here. They're like, Oh yeah, giant hole in the ground. We're going to find the gold and then didn't find gold, we're going to find trying to silver and they didn't find any silver. So, and they did find a lot of copper, but they couldn't really make any money off it, but then they had all these sweet trails. I think they were just really good promoters of the grand Canyon. So that could be another way. [00:12:23] Let me know if you've got the sun before grand Canyon coins kill you. [00:12:28] Kate: [00:12:28] I actually haven't gotten that one. [00:12:30] Brendan: [00:12:30] It's a weird question. [00:12:33] Kate: [00:12:33] From the Condor signs? I typed in grand Canyon. And then the third one was the coins. Kill you. Question Mark. I think that might be referencing cause there's a couple of signs, like at Mather point and then plateau point has it as well in the Canyon, we're talks about how if you throw coins into the Canyon, so sort of wishing, well, California Condors will eat them cause they like to eat shiny things and then it's super bad for them. It can kill them. [00:12:59] Brendan: [00:12:59] I always thought it was like an empire state building thing where grand Canyon so big. If you Chuck a penny off the ramp, it's going to like accelerate and then like hit someone in since it fell so far. It's like traveling at like the speed of a bullet, which isn't true because think, I don't think 5,000 feet like a penny. It would probably hurt, but it wouldn't kill you. [00:13:19] Kate: [00:13:19] I don't know. [00:13:20] Brendan: [00:13:20] But also grand Canyon. Isn't like a straight pit in the ground. No, there's a few spots where you could maybe get it to go fast enough, but like most of the times it's going to hit rock. What about it? Two weeks, probably a thousand feet, 2000 feet to the river. [00:13:33] That's pretty good. That's no higher than like the empire state building. I actually don't know how tall the empire state building. [00:13:39] So I have a book from a former river guide and park ranger, and this is some of the. Questions he's been asked. So let me know what you feel about these. So grand Canyon, when do they turn the lights on in the Canyon? [00:13:58] Kate: [00:13:58] I'm trying to come up with a funny answer [00:14:02] Brendan: [00:14:02] how many undiscovered ruins are there in the Canyon? [00:14:08]Why did they build the Canyon so close to the hotel? [00:14:12] Kate: [00:14:12] It's better for the tourists. Yeah. [00:14:15] Brendan: [00:14:15] Why is the department of the interior, which is what we work for in charge of everything outside, [00:14:21] because naming has to be difficult. How old is a mule deer have to be before? It turns into a mule, a hundred years old, a hundred years old, but I've also gotten when what elevation do the mule deer turn into elk. [00:14:34] Yeah. Yeah. 7,000 feet, I guess. [00:14:40] What type of uniform does a cattle guard were asked by a passenger on a tour bus after seeing a cattle guard sign? [00:14:47] I think, well, we did talk about like dumb questions, but I don't really think there is a dumb question, your grand Canyon, because this is a truly strange place. [00:14:56] And I think despite like, there is like dozens upon dozens of books written about it. There is a lot that I don't think is really recorded well or like something you really can't just look up on the internet. So I think the only real place to learn about grand Canyon, it's just asking tons of questions, even if they're really, really dumb. How do you, how do you feel about that? [00:15:21] Kate: [00:15:21] I definitely feel like there are some questions that you pause and go like, huh? I wonder how you came to that conclusion, but ultimately yeah, if you've never been here before, it's really hard to understand the scale of this place. Hmm. And even just like, for me, who hikes in the Canyon quite a bit, I still don't understand the scale of this place. [00:15:39] Really. So a lot of questions just come from it being so different from anywhere else a person can go. Yeah. [00:15:47] Brendan: [00:15:47] So Kate thanks so much for answering some questions with me. [00:15:52] Kate: [00:15:52] Yeah. And we'll have to keep track of other questions we get. If you have any questions about grand Canyon, You can send them our way and we'll answer them in the future. [00:16:01] Brendan: [00:16:01] Yeah. We encourage really obscure and really weird questions and we will, and if you send them to us, we will try to answer them to the best of our ability. [00:16:09] Kate: [00:16:09] It'd be cool to do like a prize for somebody who sent the most out there question. [00:16:13] Brendan: [00:16:13] Yeah. Well, I think the common game that we know is like stump the ranger, or if you stumped the ranger, you like win. So yeah, if you can stump the ranger, well, we'll send you a condor sticker.

You ask - we find the answers together! After google-ing what were the most common questions people ask about Grand Canyon in online searches, rangers Kate and Brendan chat about common interests in the park.

Canyon Kinetics

Transcript

CANYON KINETICS – Transcript L: Leslie Grove - unnamed hikers B: Brendan Oates A: Anna Marini S: Stan Lindstedt A: I won't consider myself a through-hiker just 'cause it was just 400 miles but I have done a 400-mile hike of the PCT... L: Wait, did I hear that right? That hike was ‘just 400 miles’? I think Anna and I might have different definitions of the word “just”. L: Welcome to Canyon Kinetics, a Behind the Scenery Canyon Cut. My name is Leslie and I’m an intern here at the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park. In my last podcast episode, What to Eat in the Heat, I chatted with all manner of canyon folk in my search for the perfect Grand Canyon snack. (Spoiler alert: it was salt. No really, salt, anything with salt.) In today’s Canyon Cut, I’m chatting again with rangers from Preventive Search And Rescue here, A.K.A. “PSAR”. While my last episode focused on how to best address your dietary needs as a summertime hiker in Grand Canyon National Park, this episode will explore the “ups” and “downs” of canyon country hiking – and how you can best prepare your body physically before descending below the Rim. You’re listening to Canyon Kinetics, a Behind the Scenery Canyon Cut. - ‘Down is optional, Up is mandatory’. The weight of that is starting to grow on me as we come back up. - I personally am, like, not a huge hiker but I trained a little bit for this B: Okay. - -and, uh… well, we trained to go from the bottom to the top; not both ways. But I ended up doing a pretty good job, I mean, I’m in decent shape.

B: Nice. And how did you guys – so, I know you said you trained a little bit – but how did you guys prepare for this hike otherwise? - So, like, seven of our friends all live in Portland and we, uh, we've been running up and down stairs at one of the parks. And then I was doing, like, body weight exercises, trying to prep for this hike out. - And I live near the beach in LA, so, I took- I just walked in the dry sand for like 2 1/2 miles after surfing every day. B: Is it hard to get, like, the elevation? - Yeah, I thought that would work out my calves out a lot – oh, and I also packed a pack so I had, like, 20 pounds on my back. B: Okay, sweet. L: I remember sometime in the past year, I was at the gym back home, just on the treadmill. And usually when I’m on the treadmill, I get this kind of tunnel-vision and don’t really notice the world around me. But this time, something caught my attention. There was someone using a machine in the row ahead of me, this individual on the StairMaster. And he had this massive hiking pack that he – I assume – had fully stocked with whatever he would take on a potential trip and he was just going up the StairMaster. And now that I think about it, that was probably an excellent workout for whatever this person was training for, I assume some extreme mountainous trek. But at the time, I couldn’t help but think… the StairMaster is hard enough as it is! Like, without however many pounds of gear were loaded up on his back. And this was just practice! So that kinda blew my mind in that moment. How do you prepare yourself for a hike? What questions do you ask yourself before stepping onto that trail? Here’s Anna Marini, Grand Canyon PSAR Lead, with her approach: A: Before my hike on the Pacific Crest Trail, I was definitely training and doing training hikes with my backpack on. You know, making sure you know your gear is helpful because that's gonna be on your back and you don't want to carry too much. And what happened with me personally when I was on that hike is, I injured myself because my pack was too heavy and I probably didn't train correctly. So, after that I have completely changed how I want, you know, how I want to train for things like this in the future. I am a big advocate for hiking poles. After I did a long distance hike in 2015, I have realized that I can't leave home without my extra set of arms. They just are such an assist with hiking uphill and downhill to save your knees, you know, and to have a little bit extra stability especially if you have a backpacking pack on, you know. It's so heavy so it's nice to be able to have that balance and have that support for your body I'm getting a little older and so I wanna I can't just bounce back as I did when I was in my young 20s right and so I wanna make sure that my body is ready and prepared for those- for the hiking that I do here today and the possible extended hikes in my future. L: Anna started us off with some excellent ideas on how you can begin training for a hike. But there’s one thread that she mentioned that I really want to emphasize – hiking downhill. Here with an explanation of the goings-on in our bodies when we hike downhill is physiology professor-turned-PSAR Ranger Stan Lindstedt. S: And, as I mention to people on the trails, we’re an upside-down park. Normally, you go up a mountain until you get exhausted and then turn around and come back. But hiking down first can be deceptive. If they hike down in the mornings, it’s cool, when you turn around all of a sudden it’s a lot warmer and it’s a lot harder going up than down. The challenges of hiking uphill and downhill are very different. So, hiking uphill, the big challenge is the amount of energy that’s required by the muscles and the amount of heat that you’re producing – people are not aware of the fact that anytime you use your muscles, you’re producing heat. That’s great in the winter, if you’re cross-country skiing, but not so good if you’re hiking in the summer. So, you have a huge amount of heat that you have to get rid of. And that’s where sweating is important. Hiking downhill on the other hand, it’s not energy, as much as it is biomechanics. Anytime that you’re hiking downhill, you use your muscle as a break. And that is, especially on a long hike, for example, hiking into the canyon, that is something that we don’t do very often. And your muscles are very plastic in the sense that they’re used to, whatever it is, the way you use them. And if you’re using your muscles in a novel way, using your muscles as a break, hiking downhill, the muscles themselves are likely to respond with microdamage. And that damage can be pretty significant. So, I always - we all have had experiences where we’ve talked to people who have done a long downhill hike, woken up the next morning – or worse, it’s 2 days later – and they have pretty serious... it’s called delayed onset muscle soreness. And that delayed onset muscle soreness results in muscle weakness. So now when they’re hiking uphill, they’re not having as much muscle strength as they would have had if they didn’t have that muscle damage. So now you’ve got a hiker, who is down at the bottom of the Colorado River, very sore muscles, and those muscles are now weaker than they normally would be. And that hiker now has to hike out and they’re not going to have fun doing so. L: Personally, I wouldn’t want to be that hiker, would you? What can you do before you start your hike to avoid being in a situation like that? Anna and Stan have a few more pieces of advice regarding building and repairing muscle, knowing your personal limits on the trail, and gear for hiking in a place like Grand Canyon. S: That kind of muscle use is called eccentric muscle use, using your muscles as a break. And for those people, you want to have a sufficient amount of protein in your diet that you can replace that protein that got damaged in your muscles. And so, the protein diet will provide the building blocks for new proteins for yourself. So that’s the extent to which I would recommend making sure that you have an adequate amount of protein in your diet. Not for calories, but for the building blocks necessary to repair any muscle damage that will inevitably be caused on a long hike. A: I think there's a couple different categories of people. There's people that didn't really look at a map, didn't really look at the time, you know, just kind of decided to keep walking downhill 'cause it's really easy to walk downhill, right? There's people that plan their day as far as timing. Like, we're going to hike for another hour and wherever they get, you know, they stop, which is kind of a good thing – until you realize that going downhill is very fast so you make it farther than you planned in an hour. And then there's those people that are, like, we’re turning around at 3 Mile, at the 3 Mile rest house. So, there's, you know, a couple of different types of people and you can kind of gauge through conversation what kind of those kind of types those are. So, with all that I always encourage people to stop before you get tired 'cause you need to save your energy for the hike up. And little trick that we use is, I tell people to spend a few minutes, turn around right now, and hike uphill. You know, feel how difficult that's going to be and realize that that's going to be the rest of your hike out is that much hiking and exertion. And so that's something that we like to encourage people to do when they're not quite sure when they want to turn around, you know, try to hike uphill for a little bit, see how that feels. But people surprise us every day, you know. You really can't predict who is going to get sick and who's not or who you know I even fall and get hurt. You know, I don't judge anybody wearing sandals 'cause I love wearing hiking sandals myself but say it's flip flops that don't look sturdy enough or it’s loafers that really will probably be uncomfortable but who knows maybe they hike in them all the time. I don't know until I ask them, right? I think it's it's more of what you're used to, hiking-wise. It's just whatever your feet are going to be happy in, is my best recommendation for footwear. And as far as clothing… I am really an advocate for sun protection all around so not only do I wear sunscreen but I also wear some clothing and that sun clothing is made out of material where when you soak it in water it's actually really nice and cool on your skin so you'll see the PSAR rangers in the creek full on or under the water spigot completely trying to drench themselves because it's actually really nice and cool when your when your body is soaking in water in the heat of the day. We call that “Grand Canyon air conditioning”. L: Honestly, I could have used some air conditioning on the trails this summer, even up here on the North Rim! Anna, Stan, any closing thoughts? A: I don't think so. I think it's just more, you know, telling… making sure people know that if they need to take a moment before they step on trail to think about what's in their pack. To think about, did they have breakfast, did they drive all night from Las Vegas so they could get to the Canyon, you know, what is their – what's their training then, like, before this hike.

Even a simple day hike, people can get into trouble and not have fun the rest of their trip. So, just taking that moment before they step down trail to- making sure that they thought about what they're about to do. And a, you know, three-mile round trip hike isn't a big deal for a lot of people but anything can happen to anybody and you never know when your body is going to have a hard time. So, do what you can before you start hiking to prepare so you could have a fun time. I always start with the belief that everyone is there to really enjoy the experience. And so, I tend not to be very rule-oriented as much as I am experience-oriented. So, my job is, when I’m interacting with people, is to try to join them as a partner. I like to ask everyone, “Hey, where are you headed today?” And oftentimes, I can give them an alternate turn-around location that maybe isn’t as deep in the canyon, but is a wonderful place to – and I’ll say this – a great place to stop and have a snack, enjoy the view, drink some more water, and then head back out. I do this because I myself love the Grand Canyon so much and I want to make sure that our visitors leave the Canyon loving the Canyon as much as I do, to ensure that their experience is one that they really enjoy. And they leave the trails saying, “Wow, that was fantastic. I want to do that again.” And I know that’s only possible when their hike is enjoyable and they don’t exceed their own limitations. L: I think that that is the key to hiking in Grand Canyon: knowing your own limits. It’s really important to take the time to consider two things: realistic goals for your hike and how you will achieve them. Before hitting the trails, ask yourself: ● What brought me here? ● How have I physically and mentally prepared myself for this hike? ● What supplies have I chosen and why? ● Have I had an honest discussion about my abilities and expectations for this hike with my hiking mates? ● What resources are available to me? What questions should I ask a Preventative Search And Rescue Ranger? ● How can I hold myself accountable so that emergency response resources can be directed towards those in serious need? If we all take the time to prepare ourselves for our hikes and listen to our bodies, we can all have an amazing experience visiting the Grand Canyon. This has been a Behind the Scenery Canyon Cut. A Grand-Canyon-sized thank you to Anna Marini and Stan Lindstedt of Grand Canyon PSAR, Ranger Brendan Oates of the Inner Canyon District, and everyone else who lent their voices to this podcast. Here at Grand Canyon, we gratefully acknowledge the Native Peoples on whose ancestral homeland we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant Native communities who make their home here today. For more information about Preventative Search and Rescue operations at Grand Canyon National Park, refer to the Emergency Services webpage at nps.gov/grca. And if you run into a roving PSAR Ranger, say Hi! And have an honest discussion about your hiking capabilities, expectations, and supplies. PSAR Rangers, volunteer and full time, can be found at trailheads and along the trails in the Canyon to help you make the best of your experience. If you enjoyed this podcast, I encourage you to listen to “What to Eat in the Heat”, my other Behind the Scenery Canyon Cut episode, in which I interview Anna, Stan, and others about dietary health while hiking in Grand Canyon. Alright, all this talk of muscle damage is making me sore. I’m gonna go stretch or something. Bye!

How can you prepare for a hike into Grand Canyon? Explore the ups and downs of canyon hiking on the human body. Preventive Search and Rescue A.K.A. “PSAR” about share how you can best prepare your body to get ready for a long hike.

What to eat in the Heat

Transcript

WHAT TO EAT IN THE HEAT – Transcript

L: Leslie Grove

- unnamed guests B: Brendan Oates A: Anna Marini S: Stan Lindstedt

B: If you guys were to hike to the River and back in a single day, would you do anything differently? Anything the same?

- I wouldn't bring chocolate. - [Laughs] L: Hi everyone! My name is Leslie and I’m an intern here at the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park. If it wasn’t already apparent from my heavy breathing right now, I am recording this while on a hike. I’m making my way south on the Transept Trail towards the North Rim Visitor Center, and while I have a relatively short hike ahead me, I’ve stocked my backpack with a 48-ounce bottle of water and my favorite snack for a light hike – rice cakes with peanut butter.

You know, before coming to the North Rim earlier this summer at the start of my internship, I had never seen the Canyon before. And actually, I had never really spent a lot of time in the Southwest in general. I’m a Midwestern gal and the dry heat here in the canyonlands really took me by surprise, especially considering I went from living at 600 ft elevation to over 8,000 ft elevation here at the North Rim. Luckily, the North Rim offers a good amount of shade, but once you step out from under those protective branches, you can heat up very easily.

Knowing that this hot, dry, elevated… – and beautiful, I should add -- place would be my home for the coming months, I started asking around – “What are the best trail snacks?” / “How much water should I be drinking?” / “How much hiking in a day is too much?” Because, honestly, I had no idea. And it turns out that the answers to these questions vary a lot based on whom you ask.

You’re listening to a Grand Canyon Behind the Scenery Canyon Cut. Once again, my name is Leslie, and I’ll be hiking you through how I learned “What to Eat in the Heat”.

This podcast is broken up into 3 parts. First, I’ll share what I’ve learned about hiker rescue operations in the Canyon – covering instances of when people didn’t know what to eat in the heat. Next, I realize just how little biology I remember from high school, as I explore what goes on inside our bodies when we don’t properly nurture ourselves in the canyon climate. And last, I reflect on everything I’ve learned in putting this episode together. So, without further ado, let’s hit the trails.

I started off this project looking for a single, catch-all answer, like a cheat sheet, to how to best pack my lunchbox before hitting the trails in and around the Canyon. I chatted with both coworkers and Park visitors, and started with an easy enough question: “What is your go-to snack while hiking in Grand Canyon?”

Oh, and shout-out to my coworker Brendan for doing some awesome detective work for me on the Inner Canyon trails.

- Okay, so I have here… dark chocolate peanut butter with butter toffee peanuts- - It’s so melted! - It's so melted, you can't see into the bag. - When I’m doing a day hike in the heat, I specifically am looking for foods with a high salt content. My go-to food that I would never eat at home – which is delicious on a super-hot day when I’m sweating – are Vienna sausages. - Sometimes I love having the stuffed peanut butter, like pretzels? - Oh, okay. Oh, those are awesome. - Aw, they’re great. - I really like cheddar crackers. I am a snacker at heart, so I have a little jar and I put probably 5 different types of salty snacks in there, kinda little bit of a hodgepodge. And I like to have variety, because it’s really nice to make sure that you have something that you want to eat. - And I met someone who said they had trail mix and it was just gummy worms with gummy bears…? - Oh my gosh, hah. - So, yeah, technically still a mix! L: Do any of these answers surprise you? If you’ve hiked in Grand Canyon National Park in recent years, you, too, may have been asked this question, likely by a uniformed ranger with a group called PSAR, or Preventive Search And Rescue.

The goal of PSAR is to educate and support hikers descending into the Grand Canyon, who may be unaware of or underestimate the dangers posed by the hot, arid canyon climate. PSAR is intended to minimize the need to request emergency extractions by Search And Rescue (or SAR) teams, hence the “preventative” in Preventative Search And Rescue.

I spoke with 2 PSAR Rangers to learn about their experiences in educating the public about dietary health while hiking at Grand Canyon National Park. A: Everybody does PSAR whether they know it or not. It’s something that I think everyone does when they work for the Park Service if they interact with folks, from trail crew, maintenance, to people working the visitor centers or lodge folks.

L: I’m here with PSAR Lead Anna Marini, with how she first got involved with PSAR, and her approach to connecting with visitors when on the clock as a PSAR ranger here at Grand Canyon.

A: I’ve been a Park Ranger in the Park Service for nine seasons now.

I used to work in Big Bend National Park in West Texas. And it's a large park in landmass but small park in personnel and so everybody was kind of trained in a little bit of everything.

I was often interacting with people and I found that I really enjoy helping people plan their trips or giving them suggestions on what to do, how to stay safe, to make sure it’s appropriate for their entire family or their entire trip.

And I didn't realize PSAR was a thing until I heard about the Grand Canyon program through some coworkers and I kind of realized, “Wow, I could do this all the time. That's really cool.”

We try to figure out peoples why’s. You asked why I did PSAR, well I ask why they're here. You know, what do they want to see here today? And most people don't have a plan; they just know the beauty of Grand Canyon, right. Once somebody tells me, “Yeah, I don't have a plan for today,” and I say, “Well, let's make one together.” And usually people are receptive to that.

L: I pulled some numbers from the PSAR database to illustrate just how many people Grand Canyon PSAR rangers interact with in a given year. So, here goes: In 2019, PSAR rangers made over 160,000 general contacts with visitors, took over 21,000 preventative actions, and performed more than 700 hiker assists.

A: So, it's really cool for me to know that I was a part of those numbers since I was here last year, so that's kind of neat. But yeah, what does that mean? So, when we’re down on trail PSARing, we carry little clickers with us. And we’re keeping track of what we’re seeing.

So, general contact: we have had a conversation with somebody or even just a “Hello,” you know, with a visitor on trail. They recognize me as a Ranger. You know, I have my Ranger hat on, I have my shirt, my badge, everything. They possibly recognize me as somebody that they could ask questions to or get help from later – that type of thing.

L: When I had my coworker Brendan interview visitors in the Canyon for me earlier, he was having conversations with folks that are pretty similar to what a PSAR ranger would have with hikers during a “general contact”. Let’s listen in:

B: How’s the hike going so far? - It’s good – we started at sunrise, tried to beat the heat, we didn't really succeed in that. B: Yeah, it’s like… thermometer says… 140. - Yeah. Oh my gosh, that was very rewarding. I came back up here, like, after we got down to the River, hiking back up, just like every, every shady spot we stopped for like 5 minutes and hydrated. - Yeah. B: And when you guys were hiking down, did you see any of the signs, like the guy throwing up? - Yeah! - Oh, yes. The guy throwing up, that's sus’d me out. I was, like, I don't want to be that guy, I don't wanna be that guy…

B: Have you been that guy yet? - No! I’m hangin’ in there, I'm doing very well, I’m proud of myself.

B: Did those signs – I know you don’t wanna be that guy – but did those signs make you feel any different? - It definitely made me pay really close attention to how my body was feeling. - Yeah. L: So, that’s a playful example, I’d say, but sometimes those quick conversations, or general contacts, can turn into a more serious conversation, or a preventative action, based on what hikers’ responses are.

A: I ask, you know, what they have with them: Did they pack a lunch? You know, do they have snacks for everybody in their party? That type of thing. I find that people are so excited to get hiking that they don't stop by the market to get food for the rest of the day, or they don't realize how long they are going to be out so they didn't bring enough food, you know, for the whole day or their whole trip, or they don't know how far they're hiking, you know, and by the time they realize that they run out of food.

In that conversation, though, if we ask them what their plan is for the day, what supplies they have, things like that, and we turn that into more of a preventative conversation, like “Oh, I really don't think it's a good idea to go down to the River today and here's why…” or “I really think you need to have more food or water with you,” things like that, then we consider that a preventative action. So, we gave them 21,000 acts of knowledge, is how I kind of see that.

And sometimes, those preventative actions turn into a hiker assist later.

L: Volunteer PSAR Ranger Stan Lindstedt shares one such example of a hiker assist:

S: I was at the 3-mile rest house, and that’s what we call “the sweep”, we do that in the afternoon, and it’s pretty tough, because we’re down 3 miles in the middle of the summer. It can be really hot down there and almost every time I’m down there, I’m involved in what’s called a “hiker assist”, where we’re actually helping someone physically.

But I was there and a young man, a 25-year-old, came in, collapsed on the floor of the rest house, and started shaking. He wasn’t even planning on going to the river, but he decided spontaneously to do so. So, he had been to the river, was on his way back, and that’s when he collapsed in the rest house.

And he hadn’t been drinking anything, which is, you know, a phenomenal shock. And I was like, “Why weren’t you drinking?” And he said – and it’s important to note at this point he’s from South Carolina, and therefore what I’m about to say will make more sense – he said, “Well, because I wasn’t sweating.” So, his experience was that you’re wet if you sweat. And because, of course, in the super dry heat we have in the Grand Canyon, the sweat evaporates right away. That’s what it’s supposed to do, that’s why you sweat: to keep yourself cool. And he had been losing a phenomenal amount of water and was seriously dehydrated. Because he was 25, we could bring him back and within a couple of hours, he was fine, and he was able to walk out on his own. But it did require some intervention.

A: That 700 hiker assist number, that comes from people that we actually needed to help out. Whether that they just need a few more salty snacks to get out of the Canyon, electrolyte powder, they may need a Band-Aid for their blister, they maybe they completely forgot their water bottle and they’re on South Kaibab with no access to water – well, here's a water bottle for them.

Sometimes that hiker assist turns into a Search And Rescue incident. Search And Rescue is a little interesting term because it sounds like we’re actually having to look for them -- sometimes we do – and the rescue also sounds very dramatic as well. Sometimes that means we need to have an EMT or a paramedic come down and assess this person more.

You can kind of see how that changes overtime, right? You know, sometimes it's just the general contact but we may see that general contact later in the search and rescue. It’s kind of interesting. Sometimes I talked to somebody in the morning and then later in the evening I'm going to help them again.

B: And would you guys tell anyone who’s hiking to the River and back in a day, like, any advice? Besides not bringing chocolate? - Bring, uh… There's not water at the River! Bring as much water to the River as you physically can. - [laughter]

S: Most people understand that they have to drink. But what people understand less is that not only are they losing water in their sweat; they’re losing a great deal of salt. Sweat contains over a gram of sodium per quart of sweat, so you lose a lot. The more you sweat, the more dehydrated you become, and then you can get into these physiological conditions.

L: I’m chatting again with PSAR Ranger Stan Lindstedt, who, as my luck would have it, is a retired professor of physiology.

S: The messaging in the Canyon has changed in the last two years to – instead of “drink, drink, drink”, it’s now “drink when you’re thirsty.”

And that’s really important: is to, to not try to second-guess your own physiology. If you’re thirsty, please drink, and the other thing is, always pay attention to: are you urinating? And when you do urinate, is it really dark in color? – in which case, you’re not drinking enough. Or if it’s just completely clear, you’re drinking too much! There should be some color to your urine.

L: In a place like Grand Canyon, you are constantly reminded of how small you are. Just standing out on the Rim, I am minuscule. I’m an ant, you know? But when Stan explained to me what goes on inside our bodies on a cellular level… Oh my goodness, I am a giant! I am this huge organism with this entire universe inside of me.

And within that universe… there’s a lot going on – understatement of the year – but I… luckily, I had Stan walk me through it, to explain to me exactly what happens inside our bodies when we don’t sufficiently replace those salts we lose when we sweat.

S: So, the individual cells, are constantly communicating with your blood. And the concentration of the blood determines to a great extent what gets into and what gets out of cells. So, when you start messing around with the concentration of salt in your blood, what you’re really doing is changing the concentration of important constituents inside the cell.

And it’s inside the cell where life exists. So, you can think of the blood as this constant bath that’s trying to make life as perfect as possible for all of the cells, the hundred trillion cells, that make up a human body. As soon as we start changing the composition of the blood, we will change the composition of the cell.

And that can have super drastic consequences for the person that is under those conditions. One of those, that’s very dramatic, is hyponatremia, where now what happens is excess water goes into the cell, the cell expands and swells. And most of our cells, we can handle that, but the swelling of the cells in the brain can be fatal.

L: If you didn’t catch that, that term for extreme salt deficiency is hyponatremia, not to be confused with hypothermia, which is a whole different story and honestly deserves its own podcast episode.

S: If you drink too much, what you’re doing is diluting out your blood and “hypo-”, low, and “-natremia”, -natremia refers to sodium – so, you have a low salt content in your blood. And while that may not sound like it’s something bad, the consequence of that is that you’ll have swelling in the brain: cerebral edema.

And, any time that you have swelling in the brain, now you’re losing central nervous system function, and that can really, really escalate to a life-threatening situation, quickly.

People can – and have – in the Canyon died from cerebral edema.

So that one [hyponatremia] is the most serious – that isn’t the most common. What’s the most common are just people having heat exhaustion, where they are mildly dehydrated, they are… just… overcome with the conditions of the Sun and the heat.

Things that taste good when you’re losing salt are not necessarily things you would eat at home. And one of the things I eat exclusively when I’m on PSAR, are little cans of Vienna sausage. Turns out, that those tiny cans of Vienna sausage can contain 1,200 milligrams of sodium! It’s an enormous amount of salt. So, it’s a great replacement.

Some people like sweet things, some people like fruity things, some people just like a hard-boiled egg – whatever it is, that’s great, but the most important thing is to make sure that your salt intake is adequate and then the nutrition – as far as I’m concerned – is whatever tastes good to you. L: So, what did we learn? How can you avoid becoming a statistic? Let’s recap: as a rule, carry more food and water than you think you will need when hiking into the canyon… so that if your trip is extended unexpectedly, you’re prepared. And remember – pack something that you know you’re going to want to eat. As long as you’re keeping an eye on your salt levels, it’s literally to taste!

And if you run into a roving PSAR Ranger, say Hi! And have an honest discussion about your hiking capabilities, expectations, and supplies. PSAR Rangers, volunteer and full-time, can be found at trailheads and along the trails in the Canyon to help you make the best of your experience.

Remember: hyponatremia and dehydration are both serious conditions that can have lasting effects on your health. If you need help preparing for your hike, take a moment to chat with a PSAR ranger, park ranger, or park employee, any of whom would be happy to guide you in planning your trip. Like PSAR Ranger Anna says, “we all do PSAR” here at Grand Canyon.

Now, I’d like to take a moment to share something that I realized as I was investigating the world of Search and Rescue and emergency services here at Grand Canyon.

I count myself lucky – very, very lucky – that I have these resources at my disposal should I ever need them, but personally, moving forward, I am going to do everything I can to make sure that I am best-prepared for any hike that I undertake: in terms of water, food, gear, buddies, everything, so that I minimize the chance of having to call on these emergency response teams.

You shouldn’t be afraid to ask for help when you need it, but I think it’s important to communicate that every time a ranger or EMT sets out on an emergency mission, they are putting themselves in harm’s way in order to get that sick or injured person to safety.

Every extra case of water bottles or life-saving bag of chips is carried into the canyon by PSAR rangers themselves, and when an injured hiker is unable to continue their hike out of the canyon by themselves, it’s PSAR rangers who literally help carry that person out. Or, it’s an emergency responder who has to navigate on a helicopter through the canyon, which is very dangerous, by the way, in order to airlift someone out.

So, before hitting the trails, ask yourself: o What brought me here? o How have I physically and mentally prepared myself for this hike? o What supplies have I chosen and why? o Have I had an honest discussion about my abilities and expectations for this hike with my hiking mates? o And how can I hold myself accountable so that emergency response resources can be directed towards those in serious need? If we all take the time to prepare ourselves for our hikes and listen to our bodies, we can all have an amazing experience visiting the Grand Canyon. This has been a Behind the Scenery Canyon Cut. A Grand-Canyon-sized thank you to Anna Marini and Stan Lindstedt of Grand Canyon PSAR, Ranger Brendan Oates of the Inner Canyon District, and everyone else who lent their voices to this podcast.

Here at Grand Canyon, we gratefully acknowledge the Native Peoples on whose ancestral homeland we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant Native communities who make their home here today.

For more information about Preventative Search and Rescue operations at Grand Canyon National Park, refer to the Emergency Services webpage at nps.gov/grca.

If you enjoyed this podcast, I encourage you to listen to “Canyon Kinetics”, another Behind the Scenery Canyon Cut I produced, in which I interview Anna, Stan, and others about the biomechanics of hiking in a place like Grand Canyon.

Alright, I’m gonna get back to my hike. I’ve been sitting for a while. See ya next time.

Planning a hike into Grand Canyon? What should you feed your body for strenuous exercise in a hot, dry climate? Preventive Search and Rescue rangers share their favorite trail snacks and pro tips how on to avoid a sufferfest in the heat. Explore how to fuel your body for the beautiful challenges of hiking in canyon country.

Bison - Learning Sustainability with an American Icon

Transcript

Bison: American Icon Transcript

Jesse: Grand Canyon, where hidden forces shape our ideas, beliefs, and experiences. Join us as we uncover the stories between the colorful walls, and add your voice to what happens next at Grand Canyon. Welcome, this is Jesse and you're listening to Behind the Scenery. Samara: It’s just so nice seeing all the different sizes. Adam: Like I can tell there is an older male, some older females, as well as some younger calves. Skye: I get really excited I usually have my binoculars with me and then pulled over on the side of the road with all the tourists. William: It’s just exciting! Miranda: It’s tricky. Scott: I don't want to put get into the whole manifest destiny and genocide that occurred here, but I'll leave it at that. Danielle: they’re just such an important species in many many ways. Dave: you end up getting to know some of the animals when you spend time with them. Adam: It reminds me of an older simpler time. Margi: It’s just great to see them in the wild, which you don’t see very often. Danielle: To see them on the landscape anywhere is really special and really exciting. Adam: Just does my heart good to see things like this still. Really beautiful. Skye: Watching the calves play around and watching the males wallow. Samara: We're looking for bison, but we didn’t expect to see so many so close together like a little family. Dave: It's a very rewarding, not monetarily wise, but very rewarding job and experience to have working with the buffalo. Megan: People are starting to realize that Buffalo you know alongside humans that relied on them are the keystone managers of the North American ecosystem. Scott: The return of the Buffalo Nation to the Dakota people here. Jesse: Grand Canyon is not first place most people think of when they think of bison, but if you drive past the North Rim entrance station there's a decent chance you can see them grazing, wallowing, or lounging in the meadows. There's somewhere between 400 and 600 bison on the North Rim, but they haven't always been here. The story of bison on the North Rim is complicated. It’s tangled up with issues that reach far beyond the national park. Issues like over-hunting, climate change, colonization, and figuring out how to decide what belongs. To start untangling the story let's go back to the beginning. First, here's Megan Davenport from the Inter Tribal Buffalo Council to clear up a question I had: is it bison or buffalo? Megan: Both terms, bison and buffalo, are absolutely correct. There's also hundreds of native languages that have words for buffalo as well. We try not to get too hung up in this one’s correct and this one’s not. We think it is fully common and acceptable to use the term buffalo, but they are one in the same. Skye: Yeah, so our modern bison in North America are descended from Pleistocene bison. I'm Skye Salganek and I’m a biological science technician based on the North Rim and I’m the field lead for all studies related to bison. Jesse: I recruited Skye to help me understand the story of bison in North America, and the bison on the North Rim specifically. Skye: Their horns where about 7 feet wide. Jesse: What? Skye: Our modern bison are quite different. But they are one of the largest mammals in North America. They’re coming back from the brink of extinction. In the 1880s there were 325 individuals left in wild and now there's about 500,000, so not get back to the numbers they originally were. Jesse: What would those have been like? Skye: I've read 30 million. Jesse: 30 million. Skye: Yeah 30 million across North America. Jesse: From 30 million to 325. Skye: Yeah Jesse: And that was mostly from hunting? Skye: Yeah that was primarily from hunting in the 1860s and 1870s. After the bison had been haunted to near extinction there were a lot of carcasses and a lot of bones leftover across the plains. There were so many bones that they could fill two trains going from California to New York. But now they’re on the up and up and it is amazing thing to see them in a National Park or ranch or wherever the chance. Our bison herd was established in 1906 by Charles Buffalo Jones. In the 1860s and 70s he was hunting bison and was one of the best hunters out there. He boasted being able to hunt up to 10 bison in a day and skin them as well. Yeah, so it's kind of ironic but later on he felt a lot of remorse about playing a major role in the near extinction of the bison. When there was hardly more than 300 individuals left in the wild he was out there rounding up the last of the individuals, sending them to ranches to breed and re populate. In 1905 he went to Theodore Roosevelt and got him to create the Grand Canyon National Game Preserve and they brought in bison from a ranch in Texas and tried to re establish bison through re introduction but also interbreeding with cattle. He thought he could make a more robust cattle with tastier meat and the fur would still be valuable in the fur trade and he imagined that this would be a very valuable animal so he tried to cross Galloway cows with bison. Jesse: He eventually went bankrupt, right? Skye: He did. The project was unsuccessful. It went bankrupt. Jimmy Owens became the new game warden of Grand Canyon National Preserve. He took charge of the bison and later on Arizona Game and Fish bought the heard from him, and they managed them down in the House Rock Valley. 1990s they started moving up to the plateau spending more and more time. They would return the House Rock Valley for rut, they would go there during the hottest time. Jesse: Weird! Skye: Yeah, it is weird. Then, about 2009, they stopped returning to House Rock Valley at all and primarily spent their time in Grand Canyon National Park. With so much hunting on the boundary it really forces them into the national park land. Jesse: Right, there’s a year-round hunt on the forest for bison, and so they know where the boundary is now. Skye: They sure do, you can see it from the GPS data. Jesse: When the bison stopped leaving the park boundaries, scientists at Grand Canyon started to notice changes. To get a better understanding of what was changing and what Grand Canyon planned to do about it, I called Miranda Terwillegar. Miranda: I’m Miranda Terwillegar, and I'm a wildlife biologist here Grand Canyon. And I'm also the bison reduction project leader. This bison herd it either at the extreme edge of the natural range or outside of the natural range of bison, and as such it would have been a very small herd and they would have not stayed in one spot they would have moved and the area for periods of time, which currently does not happen. And part of that is because of people being everywhere and so they don't have the ability to move the way they did historically. That’s true of all bison herds every single unit that manages bison has a problem because they have areas where the bison are not allowed to migrate out to, whether that’s a city, or farm, or ranch, or whatever they're just a lot of places that the bison used to be that they can't go anymore. So because of this, their population was growing they were in fairly small area of the park and we started to notice resource damage. They were damaging springs – trampled, muddy, devoid of vegetation. Meadows - from tall grassland into well cropped vegetation, kind of like a pasture. Archaeological and cultural resource sites trampled and destroyed. A lot of things were happening that were of concern to resource managers here, and so we started talking to the Forest Service and the state of Arizona Game and Fish Department about our concerns. All the agencies agreed that heard was too high. The state had always managed the herd at about 100 animals while they were in House Rock. Jesse: There are as many as 600 now. Miranda: And so as part of that the agencies agreed to do some management to reduce the herd. Because the herd is primarily on the North Rim of Grand Canyon, Grand Canyon did natural and environmental planning and compliance in the form of an environmental assessment for a 5 year short-term reduction of getting the animal herd below 200 animals. Jesse: Herd reduction. What does that mean? Each of the last two years Grand Canyon has corralled bison and shipped them to a new home. Skye explains the process. [Background]Skye: When it’s full it’ll probably just start spurting out of that blow hole. [Background]Melissa: What about this one? [Background]Skye: Probably that one, too. Skye: Right, so we've been bating animals into a fixed corral for two years now, started in 2019. [Background]Skye: I left the corral early yesterday. I was pumping water and I pumped a full trough… Skye: We use water primarily, but we also use food and salt [Background]Skye: …was stuck in the capture pen, and it couldn't figure out how to get out. I was like “oh it's going to get it I'm just gonna stay here keep watering,” but it was like running against the fence… Skye: Just get it established as an area where there is food and there is water and there's all things nice it's a great place to hang. [Background]Skye: I’m gonna go leave you guys to figure this out because I don’t want you to get hurt and then I went, I like park the truck… Skye: And then we will shut the gates. For the actual corralling process once we've successfully captured it really takes a village. [Background]Skye: It was kind of cool. The herd wouldn’t leave without the calf. And all these females are on the other side of the fence… Skye: Veterinarians, biologists from not just our park, but other NPS parks, collaborating agencies that bring in biologists all of the North Rim staff help out – interp, law enforcement, and maintenance. It really takes a whole lot of people. The majority of the personnel at the corral are working up on the catwalks and there are these walkways raised about 6 to 7 feet above the ground. From up there and you can move the bison around with long flags and rattles. This is important because they are herd animals and they'll try to stay together, but for processing we really need one bison at a time. So we try to keep a quiet environment at the corral and use their natural behavior to separate them out. Processing includes running them through the corral and then biological team is collecting blood and tail hairs for genetics. We're putting a metal ear tag in and a pit tag that's like the microchip. We’re putting on collars to the larger individuals. They don't travel well so we'll just collar them and re release, same thing with the smaller calves. Yeah and then the trucks will come in from Inter Tribal Buffalo Council and we’ll load them up and they’ll start their journey cross country to go to various tribes that are receiving them. Danielle: A big bull once, I’ll never forget this, he just started just trying to bight me. Jesse: That’s Danielle Buttke. She's the one collecting most of the samples Skye just mentioned. Danielle: My name is Danielle Buttke and I am a wildlife veterinarian and public health service officer for the National Park Service, and I served as the on-site attending veterinarian for the corral operations. Typically what we'll do is individually identifying each of the animals so that we can go back in the heard and figure out who is who. We always take hair samples, that’s where we get the genetic material to look at the genetics of these animals. We collect blood samples so that we can test them for disease exposure to other diseases etc. And then we occasionally will also take nasal swabs too, because some of the bacteria that are an important pathogen for bison can be transmitted in the respiratory tract from animal to animal, and so that's another sample we often collect when we're handling these animals. And then we will look at the mouth and try and age the animal by looking at their teeth, and then look at their feet look for lesions that could be indicative of some of these diseases of importance when we're talking about transport and kind of get a get a look at the rest of the body of the animal really quickly. They don't understand why they're there. This is not a natural environment for them and so I'm at the same time just absolutely thrilled and also really feeling like wow I need to minimize the amount of time that they were there. You can see how terrified they are. Some of them react differently. Some get angry, some get quiet, some are a relatively unstressed considering the circumstances. I kind of read each animal and then modify the amount of exam that we're doing or the samples were collecting based on how the animal is in the shoot. But it's certainly a very humbling experience to be that close with them. So we're actually doing the little bit of examining we can under a high stress handling environment in the shoot, you know at least enough for us to understand if they're healthy enough for them to be shipped across state lines or not. Jesse: In order to ship bison the park has to test them for disease to make sure they won't carry pathogens to other populations. Through that testing process, bison managers have learned… Danielle: Generally these animals are pretty darn healthy and this is what we see with cattle, too. You know when you're out in open air, able to move around across the landscape, and grazing on your natural diet animals are generally healthier than say if you're kept in confinement, if you're not able to actually graze living food, and if you're not able to move around. One of the pathogens that are important to producers are the respiratory pathogens and then the parasites. And parassites are kind of a perfect example, if you live where you poop your at really high risk, and when you can graze and move around on the landscape you're going to have fewer parasites. We in the wildlife community are really trying shift away from this disease focus to a health focus, because you recognize that your resilience and your healthiness determines your disease outcomes. You know a lot of people can be infected with a certain pathogen and do just fine if they are healthy, and same for animals. You know if you've got a good diet, if you have the appropriate density, and this is in part why this operation so important, you have the resources you need you can fight off a lot of these pathogens. Once they exceed that carrying capacity they start degrading the quality of the resources which can then in turn degrade their health. Jesse: Genetic analysis was also conducted during the project the results were surprising. Danielle: A lot of folks assumed that there was a tremendous amount of cattle in genetics in the herd, and we did find some cattle genetics, but it was at a much lower level than I think a lot of folks had thought, and the really interesting part is we found some really interesting bison genes that didn't seem to be present in other DUI conservation herds. When you think about how you animals were left on the landscape, the overall North American bison population has had a pretty significant genetic bottleneck, which means that really any diversity of these alleles could be important given the selection pressure that was so placed on it back when they were hunted almost to extinction. So it highlights the conservation value of this herd beyond what folks had assumed with possible with a herd that had been traditionally interbred with cattle or at least attempted to be interbred with cattle. You know we don't know, for instance, that say maybe there's a gene present in the Grand Canyon heard that allows for them to withstand drought better. You know, we don't know that at this point in time. But what we do know is that maintaining as much genetic diversity as possible in general leads to a healthier population that's more resilient to any type of stressor, from disease to drought to heat. And with a warming climate it's really important for any species we're trying to conserve to maintain as much diversity as possible so that they have the best chance of adapting to the changes they will see. Jesse: After learning all this, the question I was left with was “how should we decide what belongs?” This is something that these three thinking about a lot. Here's Miranda: Miranda: It's tricky honestly and there's several reasons why we make this. One, I personally do not believe the science will ever be fully decided whether or not the North Rim of the Grand Canyon was in within the native range. Yes there are lots of maps that supposedly depict what the historic range was. Map making wasn't all that big of a strong suit in the 1900s. Archaeology tells us something but you know it's really reliant on what could be preserved in the system. Whether we will ever have enough hard data say yes or no is, I really think, unlikely. I think there probably were bison, probably not very many. They may have only come in every now and then. They are pioneering animals, you know the young males will wander miles and miles outside of their range, but again I don't think I don't think that is something that we can hang our hats on to make that decision. And I think early park management was trying to do that. There are honestly politics at play into this. These bison and are very important to the state of Arizona, and it is very important to them to keep them on. I don't think politically we would be able to get to a point where we say we're just going to eradicate them. Case in point, the state of Arizona has introduced 17 new bison to House Rock Valley. If we were to eradicate the ones on the Kaibab, they might just open the gates and let those ones up. And then when you throw climate change into these questions and the fact that species ranges are moving, I think that complicates the issue of when do you leave a species be, and what is native and what is range expansion and what is truly invasive non-nativity. And I think it's a question that the Park Service and all land managers are probably grappling with countrywide. If the habitat where, for example, the redwoods can no longer sustain redwoods but they can live somewhere else, do we move them and have them move somewhere else or do we have them go extinct. That, you know, this is a big philosophical question, it's a very difficult question to answer. And I think we are addressing that with several species within this park and there are no easy straightforward answers. A lot of different things play into it whether it's the biology, the practicality, the politics all those things have to feed into that final decision. Skye: Yeha, it is a difficult decision to make for resource managers that are trying to balance all these different resources. I think the park service motto - to preserve and protect - it's tricky when we're changing world. To preserve things as they were when the Park Service came into existence 100 years ago, it's preserving a snapshot in time and sometimes that's not super realistic. Danielle: When you think about why a National Park any National Park was created, oftentimes their enabling legislation is to conserve a specific set of species and conditions that were present when the park was created. And with climate change a lot of specific species and conditions are no longer possible on the landscape. And what this means is that our public lands established for conservation purposes can no longer, alone, accomplish the conservation goals that as a society hold dear. We’re looking at a future where we have to really think very broadly beyond our borders for conservation. It doesn't matter if it was native to an area or not, we need to instead, I think, ask the question does this species need conservation assistance and can this unit help out? We really need to change some of that really historic condition type mind set if we're going to continue to conserve these species with climate change. The idea of preserving this tiny mosaic makes sense when there's ecosystem integrity everywhere, but that's just not the case. There isn’t, in my mind, anything that's entirely natural anymore. You cannot go anywhere without seeing some aspects of human influence and because of that defining what's natural maybe isn't the right question if you know our goal is really to protect the planet. And as a scientist you're trained to be impartial, you know, and just let the data speak for itself, but because we are also dependent upon this planet as human beings we're never going to be impartial. We're always going to be biased. I think we need to do a lot more as a scientific community of, not necessarily, you know, I don't think advocate is the right word, but speaking up for conservation, speaking up for those resources, and being willing to kind of manage in the face of uncertainty a little more than we have in the past. And there's a really interesting effort that the Climate Change Response Program of NPS has done a tremendous amount of work leading to define what is native, and under climate change what can we expect from our interpretation of our policies, interpretation of our legislation in terms of accomplishing the greatest good for conservation. And this is really going to require this broader landscape, multi scale initiative that goes far beyond our borders. I think Grand Canyon bison are kind of are emblematic of this, right. There's this debate about whether or not the historic range of bison includes this part of the country or not, but that's not really I don't think the right question to ask under climate change. I think the right questions to ask is “is this suitable habitat and can it contribute to the conservation of the species, while still adding to the broader naturalness and natural resource value of that ecosystem?” And that's really I think the question we should be asking. And there's knowledge that I just don't think we're tapping into as much as we need to be to meet the goals that we have. Indigenous knowledge, particularly with the species that is so important to indigenous people, we're really missing a huge opportunity to make a bigger impact if we're not relying on that knowledge more heavily in their management. Jesse: Today people like Skye, Danielle, and Miranda are thinking about whether or not buffalo belong at Grand Canyon because of the decisions that were made about who or what belongs more than 100 years ago. The industrial scale bison hunting that nearly wiped out the species in the 1800s wasn't just about hides or sport, it was a tool for controlling indigenous people and for removing them from their homelands. I wanted to get a better understanding of this part of the story, and what it means for tribes today to receive buffalo from places like the North Rim. With some help from folks at Grand Canyon I got in touch with Megan Davenport from the Inter Tribal Buffalo Council, and she helped set up a call with Scott Anderson. Scott is land manager for the Flandreau Santee Sioux Tribe, one of the tribes that received buffalo from Grand Canyon this year. Scott: I am Scott Anderson. I am the land manager for the Flandreau Santee Sioux Tribe of Flandreau, South Dakota. I’m also the manager of the buffalo herd and have been a member of the board of directors for Inter Tribal Buffalo Council for roughly 15 years now. Historically, you know, the buffalo was the economy. The Dakota people we supplement out diet with buffalo, but we're also on the edge of the woodland where there was deer and fishing going on. But as we migrated west like the buffalo it became a very important part of our economy, and to have that restored in last 30 years to the people here has been a blessing. My predecessor Wes Hanson, he was a part of ITBC when it first started I believe. We started with some animals from Badlands National Park and it's taken off from there. Jesse: Here’s Megan to give us a little more info on the Inter Tribal Buffalo Council. We'll hear from her again in a minute. Megan: My name is Megan Davenport and I'm the wildlife biologist for the Inter Tribal Buffalo Council. ITBC is a federally chartered tribal organization. We have a membership of 69 tribal nations that are restoring buffalo herds to their land. So of the things that ITBC does is provide technical assistance to tribes in managing their buffalo herds, or starting new buffalo herds, or growing their herds and everything kind of under the sun. So our organization has a couple different main programs. One of those is a grant program called the Herd Development Grant. We also have the Surplus Buffalo Program. Since 1992 we've been working with public lands, so places like the National Park Service and US Fish and Wildlife refuges, and a number of other state, federal, and also private entities in order to transfer surplus buffalo from those places to tribes that want to grow or develop their herds. It's sort of a win-win situation for both the parks, and also for tribes because basically any buffalo that are behind fences eventually will grow and exceed the capacity of those lands. I mean it's a species that used to roam the entire continent in very very large numbers, so in order to kind of offset that grazing pressure and help maintain a healthy ecosystem on the public lands ITBC has been basically arranging the logistics and also transporting, paying for the transport of those animals, and helping match up those animals with tribes that want to grow their herds. Scott: It’s very important to diversify our herd’s DNA. We received 32 buffalo from 3 different national parks in the last year. 14 buffalo from Wind Cave National Park, two bulls that originated from Yellowstone, and then 16 buffalo delivered from Grand Canyon. It’s fun to watch. Initially the Grand Canyon buffalo were off on their own, and now today we pulled out into the pasture and they just surrounded us and were actually bouncing the truck around. The Grand Canyon herd has merged with the rest of our herd and has adapted well. We have a lot of our members that consider themselves to be traditional Indians and don’t practice Christianity, but our traditional religion, whether it be the Sun Dancing or other types of ceremonies. I, myself have Sun Danced since 1975. Buffalo play a role during the Sun Dance. It’s been a spiritual journey as well as cultural and economic. The return of the Buffalo Nation to the Dakota people here. There's 560 federally recognized tribes in the United States, you know, plus all the reserves in Canada. I would like to see more tribes become members of Inter Tribal Buffalo Council and expand these numbers to other tribes Turtle Island and start helping these tribes diversify their economy. Megan: Yeah I agree with Scott entirely. There's such a room for growth and ITBC’s membership. And what that actually means is many, many thousands and thousands of Buffalo returning to tribal lands and also returning to tribal people. You know, tribal people have always been the leaders in restoring buffalo, and have been managers of the buffalo for tens of thousands of years. A lot of times when people think of, you know, oh buffalo doesn't have any predators or you know that's just ridiculous. It's always been humans and some other large, you know grizzlies and wolves and things like that. But recognizing that many different nations within the US have been leading this movement of restoring buffalo, which now today is getting some well deserved recognition as a really important movement, people are starting to realize that buffalo, you know, alongside humans that relied on them are the keystone managers of the North American ecosystem, and are so very important in restoring grasslands, and maintaining habitat for other species, and you know all these other ecological roles. So, you know, the more tribes are able to manage buffalo in the way that they decide to do so as sovereign nations, and are also recognized outside of that for their expertise in managing and restoring buffalo, and restoring and managing, you know, all ecosystems across Turtle Island, then you know that's something that's positive for everyone. And that's something that you know everyone can learn from. Jesse: I think what struck me most in learning about the North Rim buffalo herd is just how connected it is to the world outside the boundaries of Grand Canyon, even though it rarely leaves them anymore. It's exciting to hear from wildlife managers who are adapting the way they think about buffalo and other species in response to climate change, but the question that still looms for me is how or if agencies like the National Park Service will include indigenous knowledge in the decisions about what belongs and how to manage changing ecosystems. Here's Megan with the last word: Megan: There’s a type of kind of western science, like European western science that, you know, has this myth that all of North America was a wilderness before Europeans came here. That's just garbage. The depth and diversity of how people have been managing sustainably for tens of thousands of years the North American ecosystems is really incredible. And not, you know, not as many people spend enough time or the education system doesn't necessarily teach those kinds of things either. So, you know, if you if you learn about how tribes are managing buffalo you get to see and learn about a lot of that. Jesse: And if you aren't a member of a tribe. Megan: We are all neighbors to, you know, 570 plus federally recognized tribes. And if you're listening and you want to know more about buffalo, look around you and find one of the tribes that's local to your area and maybe try to learn from them a little bit about buffalo, and about whether they have a current or historic relationship with the animal, or with any of the species that are local to your area. Jesse: Thanks to Scott Anderson and Dave Ross of the Flandreau Santee Sioux Tribe, to Megan Davenport of the Inter Tribal Buffalo Council, and to Daniel Buttke, Skye Salganek, Miranda Terwillegar, and Melissa Panter of the National Park Service for lending their voices to this episode. We also heard from visitors Adam Allred, Margi Ness, Samara Rangel, and Williamson Semple. Behind the Scenery is brought to you by the interpretation team at Grand Canyon National Park. We gratefully acknowledge the native peoples on whose ancestral homelands we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant native communities that make their home here today.

How can a diverse set of skills be used to solve complex problems? This episode explores the uniqueness of the North Rim bison herd, and what it takes to implement a bison management plan that prioritizes a healthy ecosystem.

Dams Part One: Dams Alter the River

Transcript

[Audio: water splashing noises]

Bob

We’re walking upstream in the little gorge below the barrier fall at Shinumo to our second net in a pool in a tight, dog-like turn where yesterday we saw at least four humpback chub. Hopefully, some of those fish will be in the net.

Kate

Hidden forces shape our ideas, beliefs, and experiences of Grand Canyon. Join us as we uncover the stories between the canyon’s colorful walls. Add your voice for what happens next at Grand Canyon! 

Kate

Hello and welcome. My name is Kate. You are listening to Behind the Scenery.

Welcome to the water world at the bottom of a mile-high desert. Tributaries and streams flow down steep cliffs and side canyons to meet at the river. The Colorado River in Grand Canyon is sandwiched between dams at both ends of the park, Glen Canyon Dam at the top and Hoover Dam at the bottom.  After Glen Canyon Dam blocked the river in 1963, people started noticing that it impacted the community of animals and plants at the bottom of the canyon. The dam altered the riparian world downstream. A wave of change hit the aquatic environment– that’s home to water bugs and fish! It changed the river for people too. In today’s episode we are going to explore how the Glen Canyon Dam changed the Colorado River. We’ll share one story about the struggles of wildlife to survive in a damned world.

Bob

So let's talk about what the River was like prior to dams, just to draw the contrast. 

Kate

This is Bob Schelly. He is a fisheries biologist for the Native Fish Ecology and Conservation Program at Grand Canyon.

Bob

So the Colorado River, which is a big desert river draining pretty arid landscapes. Pre-dam is characterized by really large snowmelt-driven spring runoff events and so it was typical in a spring runoff to see flows through Grand Canyon in excess of 120,000 CFS, so that's a cubic feet per second…

Kate

A cubic foot is about the size of a basketball. So imagine 120,000 basketballs flooding past you every second.

Bob

So you have these big sediment-laden spring floods and then during the summer the river levels would drop to comparatively low base flows of 5000 CFS or less. And in addition, those floods would carry lots of driftwood, woody debris, they would build enormous sandbars and create backwater habitats related to the deposition of sediment and there would be a temperature difference. You have very warm water in summer and of course in winter at base flows, the coldest temperatures, close to freezing.

Kate

A flood that big was like flushing the toilet, a big whoosh down the canyon...It purged things, but also brought nutrients into the canyon body... It was like a seasonal detox.

Bob

 Post-dam pretty much all those details have changed. So now the reservoir upstream, Lake Powell, behind Glen Canyon Glen Canyon Dam, captures big spring runoff so you don't see a pulse. So it's in effect it's flattened that hydrograph. You no longer have the big floods through the Grand Canyon, and the base flows don’t get as low as they did historically.  

Kate

The canyon used to have a pulse, a heartbeat that ran with the seasons. The dam flatlined that pulse....if the river is the heart of the canyon, the dam changed how that heart beats. 

Bob

But you see more daily fluctuations because the dam is generating power and at peak power demand they increase the release. So over a 24-hour cycle, you see rise and fall of the River, which in the in the years right after dam closure, was quite extreme.  

Kate

And it was extreme for humans too. There are people on the river in Grand Canyon, floating on rafts and kayaks, navigating rapids all the time! At night, they tie in their boats, big enough to carry 15 people, to stakes on the beach and settle in to sleep to the sound of the river. 

Bob

You hear stories about people boating through Grand Canyon and waking up after a night’s sleep and finding their enormous S-rig 10 feet up on the beach, just stranded. These days that daily fluctuation is less. It might be on the order of 1 1/2 or two feet but you have daily fluctuations and a more constant hydrograph throughout the year. And it's a cold clear release because it comes out of the bottom of the reservoir, so in summer now the river is very cold which didn't used to be the case, and in winter the water is actually warmer than it would have been pre-dam

Kate

The River is so cold, it's really hard to swim in! The changes that happened to the Colorado after the dam changed many aspects of the corridor in Grand Canyon from the size of beaches to the experience of voters to the lives of the plants and animals that depended on that watershed. So today's story goes underwater with the fish. Let's meet Rebecca Koller who has a long career at Grand Canyon, extending back over 20 years. She had her start in the vegetation program and began with fisheries in 2016. Rebecca is now the natural resource specialist for the Native Fish Ecology and Conservation Program.

Rebecca

So yeah in Grand Canyon originally there were eight native fish in the Grand Canyon river and six of those are endemic

Kate

Endemic means that creature only lives in that geographical location. So these endemic fish are special because they only live in the Colorado River watershed that's around the Canyon.

Rebecca

And four of them have been extirpated and two of them are now endangered.  

Kate Let’s look at that word extirpated. It's similar to extinction in that they have disappeared, but instead of disappearing from the entire world, they've been rooted out of a local area, similar to how grizzly bears, which are on the state flag of California, are extirpated from California today.

Rebecca

So I might have mentioned the Colorado pikeminnow has been extirpated from the Colorado River through Grand Canyon. It does still exist I think in pretty low numbers, huh Bob, in the upper basin. Yeah, they’re declining. And that was that was one of the one of the large predatory fish and the other ones that have been extirpated from Grand Canyon is the bonytail chubs, the round-tailed chubs and is that it? Yeah. And the pike minnow. Rite, rite. So and then the other two that are endangered or the humpback chub and razorback suckers.

Kate

Out of the eight original native fish, the humpback chub is a crowd favorite. 

Bob

the humpback chub is special within this group in that they’re long lived fish, 40 plus years, and they’re, they’re habitat specialists in canyon-bound regions. So pre-dam humpback chub were not widespread throughout the basin. They were found in canyon reaches that have would have big rapids and deep water within gorges that have this pool-rapid kind of morphology. 

Kate

Within the mile-deep gorge of Grand Canyon, the river pools into eddies after going through rapids with waves taller than people. It was the perfect habitat for the humpback chub! What else is cool about the chub? When you look at it, it has a face kind of like the canyon mules. This narrow, rounded face, and above that face rise a big hump.

Bob

And large adults develop this weird fleshy hump that sticks out above the head and there have been a number of theories why because its not just humpback chub, it’s the razorback sucker, you can tell by the name, that feature above the head that makes them deep-bodied. And the theory that I like most, and I think there is some experimental evidence to support it, so why multiple lineages evolve this feature this humpback like feature is that Colorado pikeminnow which was the one big predator prior to invasives gaining a foothold in the basin, are gape-limited. So they can't open, even though they get very big, pikeminnows can get 6 feet long, at least they did historically, physically opening their mouth is surprisingly limited for as big a fish as they are. And it turns out that humpback chub and razorback sucker, once they reach a certain size and the hump starts to develop they become invulnerable to predation. They don't fit into the mouth of pikeminnow except the very largest pikeminnow. 

Kate

These fish evolved, especially to interact with each other, in this specific place. This doesn’t happen everywhere! So we are looking at a predator and prey relationship that went on for centuries before the river was dammed....time enough for our chub to evolve one mean hump that was too big, and too tough for the shark of the Colorado to swallow!  Now that the dam is here, the entire population is completely caught in the Grand Canyon between the two dams.

Rebecca

Sure, yeah, so as Bob mentioned earlier, the humpback chub is the largest population of that chub remaining in Grand Canyon and it's centered around the little Colorado River and it's sort of thought of as the center of the humpback chub universe. And so as a result of the dam operation, it was identified as a conservation measure to establish another second spawning aggregation of humpback chub within Grand Canyon, recognizing that that little Colorado River population is, you know, it's still vulnerable to catastrophic events. Say weather events, flooding or contamination or whatnot. So, so it was identified that that was important to establish that second spawning aggregation and so I think in the 2000s or around 2000 there was a study published looking at potential other locations for translocation, other tributary locations, and in that study it was identified, three sites were identified. They identified Havasu Creek, Shinumo Creek and Bright Angel Creek as potential translocation areas that would support humpback chub population. And they were looking at like water quality, temperature and then also the presence of non-natives 

Kate

Remember this?

Bob

We’re walking upstream in the little gorge below the barrier fall at Shinumo to our second net in a pool in a tight, dog-like turn where yesterday we saw at least four humpback chub. Hopefully, some of those fish will be in the net.

Kate

Between 2009-2014, a fish crew at Grand Canyon began pro-actively reintroducing humpback chub to Shinnumo Creek, giving them another home to recover from the dam. 

Rebecca

And all indicators up to that point where that the fish were doing well, they were, they were growing and surviving in Shinumo Creek. And then in 2014 there was a fire on the North Rim and subsequent flooding into that Shinumo drainage which essentially wiped out all of the all of the fish population in that Creek including the humpback chub, bluehead suckers,  speckled dace and all other fish species there so, so it was, it was I think what is interesting about that whole project was again we learned that you know these populations of humpback chubs continue to be vulnerable to those catastrophic events. Fortunately, we've done work in Havasu Canyon and Bright Angel.

Kate

When you have an endangered species like the humpback chub that only lives in a small area, a catastrophic event like a fire or flood could cause them to go extinct. In order to increase the habitat range of the humpback chub, the fisheries crew would have to tackle another problem, the fact that invasive species are outcompeting the humpback chubs in the creeks they once called home.

Rebecca

So we started electrofishing the entire reach of Bright Angel Creek, which is about 13 miles, in 2012. And that effort involves backpack electrofishing with crews of, you know, 6 to 10 people.

Kate

I met fish crew down in the backcountry at Bright Angel campground and joined them in the water as they pounded in a weir that would keep non-native trout out of the creek. Afterward, we met back in a roundtable at the employee cabin so that we could get the scoop on non-native fish removal.

Nick

Ok, my name is Nick. I've been involved with this project for quite awhile now. I forget how many years, but I guess my favorite part about this is you're in this pretty magical place. In my opinion, you're doing really good work. Work like I mentioned earlier, we're restoring these native fish or we’re trying to restore their habitat. Yeah and I guess get to outreach to people and explain what we're doing and especially having those people, some of them have come and volunteered on our crew, and just, I guess over the years we've seen people with a negative outlook kind of switch to a positive outlook and we're seeing more native fish and more people that are on board with this.

Mike

Uh, my name is Mike. I've helped out with this project on and off since 2012, and I've also done fisheries work throughout the Colorado River with similar fish as down here. And it's just kind of cool working on this project which is, you know, it's the same goal as projects elsewhere that I've worked, with the same species, different place. And I don't know, it's just it's cool being a part of the project that has gone on for this long and is really great people working here.

Ray

My name is Ray. I have been a technician here for this week is my sixth season on the Bright Angel crew and what I really like about this job, in this position, is that you know, this being my sixth year, and working the last five years you actually notice a difference every year as you work down from the source all the way down the Colorado River 13 miles of electrofishing, you can see a difference in less and less nonnative fish and more and more native fish. So I think the biggest thing for me is just being able to see that difference over a period of five years. It's pretty awesome! Makes you want to keep coming back keep doing this work, and another thing is just in terms of the job, the place you get to work in the bottom of the Grand Canyon. That's pretty awesome! People you work with are pretty great, so my best friends I met on this job. And it doesn't help that my supervisor is in the room but the people you work for us agree and not just saying that 'cause he's in the room here, but I really do think that yeah, you work for great people with great people, in a great place. It's pretty awesome.

Nick

So I guess we're down here I the main goal is to create a habitat friendly for the humpback chub which historically lived in bright Angel Creek or at least it's assumed at least down in the River like Delta area of right Angel and there are lots of Brown and rainbow trout in it now thanks to some people back in the early 1900s stocking it who worked for the Park Service.  

Kate

Yes, Rangers were stocking creeks in the 1920s with sport fish from Europe like brown trout and rainbow trout. There are pictures of rangers on mules slung with old milk cans full of non-native fish. In Bright Angel canyon, rangers were even operating a fish hatchery to actively stock the creek with lots of non-native babies. The non-natives flourished after the dam was put in, out-competing local fish and interrupting the river food chain. Today’s fisheries crew had a lot of work to do, or undo, in Bright Angel Creek. 

Nick

I guess the whole goal of the project is to protect the resources within the park for future generations and unfortunately our predecessors did put nonnative fish into the creeks, but now we're restoring those native fish that are here or at least making it making the habitat available for them so they can potentially persist into the future for future generations to come experience.

Ray

Nick that was beautiful!

Nick

Thank you, Ray.

Mike

I guess we can talk about how the tributaries within Grand Canyon are kind of like a stronghold for the native fish. Well, could be. I guess the River is highly modified. You know Glen Canyon dam is up there releasing cold, clear water that's super unnatural for this river’s historical flows and sediment load and so the tributaries are really important to the native fish for spawning and for, you know, the like rearing of younger fish and so this is like just one little piece of a larger effort to like restoring the chubs as there's other projects in another tributary or two restoring the shed.

Ray

Well I may not be as qualified discussed this, but just from personal observation from talking to people who have been coming to Phantom ranch for 10s of years, one observation it could be from trout removal or not but trout kind of prey on macroinvertebrates and so I think people notice more birds entering the area that are feeding upon flying insects that may be where otherwise have been consumed from trout. But now that niche has opened, more insects maybe include some more birds. Coming to think, the last Christmas bird count they got a high species richness count.

Kate

One of the concerns about the brown trout is they aren't just outcompeting native fish, they are eating everything in the creek, from the small native fish like speckled dace to those aquatic insects which start their lives underwater but become flying insects like caddis flies and mayflies. They are the base of the food chain for a lot of birds. One of the neat things that I've observed in my time down by Bright Angel Creek is over the past couple years, I'll never forget the first time I saw a great blue heron going through the creek and catching those little speckled dace minnows. The amazing thing is you likely would not have seen a heron there five years ago because the trout had eaten out their traditional food source.

Bob

I would say a benefit of trout removal is this expansion and really increasing numbers of native fish is an although some of these natives are endangered and still can't be angled in sportfish yet. I think one day that should be an ultimate goal because fish like the humpback chubs and round tail in the upper basin and maybe one day in Grand Canyon, the large native predator pikeminnow which could grow up to six feet long. I think that one day those fish could be very appealing to people to angle the native fish that evolved in this system. And for people who are trout enthusiasts I think there are plenty of places to go and fish for trout in their native range but one day I'd like to see Grand Canyon as a destination for anglers who are interested in fish diversity where it's found naturally and it would be the experience of a lifetime to catch a large pikeminnow in the Grand Canyon. For me that would be angling gold.

Nick

It is about 13 miles from the source all the way to the confluence of the Colorado River so it's pretty cool we get to start up in October basically starting at the source Rangel Creek actually consists of Roaring Springs and Angel Springs and we were fortunate enough to be able to shock up the entire length of Roaring Springs an Angel Springs in October and then by around February ish mid January we make it closer to the confluence and it's pretty cool because as we start up at the top at Angel Springs it's the leaves are starting to change and then throughout the season's working or wait downstream we dropped elevation chasing fall all the way down to confluence since it's kind of cool that you know we just work with the leaves as they change. 

Kate

As I went out on my winter backcountry patrols, I would look down on a team of women and men and waiters in their hands were yellow human sized ones that they would jab into the water.

Nick

excited about that the description just because anytime were shocking in the stream is 2 Electro Fishers so there's a it's a backpack base that you wear and there's two of 'em so they'll be two people wearing them should have followed by netters people getting fishes or shocked up in bucket or his people bucking fish that are netted anyway long story short people when they walk past us on the trail they make the job you probably hear this joke you know once a day twice a day but at least once a day that looks like we're Ghostbusters big square backpacks watching ghosts down there nude talk with them or tell about little bit about the project and what we're doing is really good public outreach

Mike

I feel like like we're walking on bowling balls.

Bob

What’s that show?

American ninja warrior. Climbing over cascades, through overhanging vegetation and climbing up over waterfalls. It's pretty arduous getting up the creek and sometimes people can slip and top their waiders and you know, need to take 5 but it's it is an adventure getting up the creek. 

Kate

Working in fish crew requires a blend of wilderness skills and meticulous data collection.

[Sound clip of collecting data with splashes and Enya playing in the background]

Mike and Bob and Nick

Well everyone, the whole teams in in the creek. You’ve got your two shockers up front and when the whole team's down there, you say, “Ok, everyone ready?” and then you say, “OK shocking!” You check your time and the shockers put their thumbs on the on the anodes button and we're off and any any trout that are within like an 8 foot radius of the the wand will be drawn into that anode ring at the end of the wand. And after, if they reached a distance from that they'll go…What's the word? Techne. But they just just like when they're knocked out. What’s a scientist word for knocked out can sort of pretend to understand. OK so they’re stunned once they get close enough and thankfully the creek is really clear and sometimes they might get stunned deep down or sometimes they shoot across the field but usually you can see them 'cause they got a white belly and they kind of flash and netters Test will scoop them up. Sometimes if you're in a big cloud of dace they'll just be flowing downstream like they look like leaves or something they just keep coming and coming and coming. But yeah, we're mostly just scooping every single fish we see and putting them into buckets filled with water. At least the natives get the buckets with fresh water and then next we dispatched the the trout and put them in the dead bucket for processing later. Yeah it's pretty exciting sometimes when the water is flowing pretty fast and in a group of there's five to eight of us in the stream and we're trying not to fall, we’re slipping around and then shout and Fisher shooting like 3 legs the waters fans were trying to net fish and or like hey 

Kate

For the past decade, fish crew would return each fall. Over time, what they found in their studies started to change.

Bob

So when this project was initiated in about 2012 trout both Brown and rainbow trout were the predominant fish species in the Creek and they were very dense so that over the course of a whole season more than 10,000 trout were removed whereas today we've succeeded in reducing trout by more than 95% and last winter we removed only around 300 Brown trout so that's very successful suppression effort and the other side of that coin is that we've seen a real rebound of native fish is both in numbers and in their range. 

Kate

10,000 trout in the creek meant buckets of non-natives lined the creek. This is a huge success story in Grand Canyon. In today’s world, isn’t good to hear about a species coming back from the brink? Now finding a non-native fish can be it’s own challenge. It’s a big deal! 

Ray

It's pretty exciting sometimes when the water is flowing pretty fast and in a group of there's five to eight of us in the stream and we're trying not to fall. We’re slipping around and then trout and fish are shooting like through our legs. The waters running fast. We’re trying to net fish and or like, “Hey Mike!” is officially over there. Gets it. Jumps, jumps across the channel, scoops up the fish! I got that trout! I got that trout! And then it's pretty exciting, and then if we're up top like around Cottonwood, we maybe we haven't seen any native fish yet and where, you know, the water is flowing super-fast and we're trying not to fall again and, you know, these trout going between our legs. We’re netting. All of a sudden someone pulls up the net and there's a, there's a maybe a flannel mouth or bluehead sucker in there and we're like, “Yeah! first sucker of the season this is awesome and just kind of very exciting very exhilarating it's almost like it's almost like we're ghostbusting separate trout busting.

Mike

Trademark! Yeah, the trout are very, they're quick, so you can't. It takes awhile for you to hone in on like, just where do you stick your net when you see them? It's kind of, it's like a game almost, like tennis. I don't know, go for the head.

Nick

Or hockey, a lot of people who play hockey are pretty good at netting. Another thing too is with larger trout especially for entering a pool they can feel that electrical field before hand and it's often that they'll charge at us to try and break that field, so sometimes they won't actually. You have to bring you’re A-game if you want to catch those trout, and that's what our goal is.

Mike

Yeah, the big trout are the ones we're after because we're going in during spawning season and so we want to get the big ones that are carrying the most the eggs, you know, and the ones that are going to produce a lot of offspring. And so if we catch a big trout, that's that's a big deal that we're cutting out possibly hundreds of offspring that could be, you know, raised in the creek the following year. But also getting little ones is just as important.

Mike

Which brings us to the end of the day. So we're removing brown trout and rainbow trout from the creek and this kind of ugly part of the creek or the project, but also kind of cool. Every trout that is removed from the stream is used for beneficial use. We don't just, a lot of other removal projects you just throw the fish along the bank or sink 'em but every single trout that we take out of the creek either goes to human consumption or to aviaries at the Hopi and Zuni reservations. And so every fish we catch we are cleaning or bagging them and we're carrying them all the way back to the bunkhouse and putting in in vacuum sealed bags and freezing 'em and the next time the helicopter comes down we send them out.

Kate

What makes this fish program unique is that none of the trout are wasted. Each trout is used for beneficial use for people or other animals, and this was brought about in collaboration with Grand Canyon’s Traditionally Associated tribes. These are people groups that have called the canyon home for thousands of years. Many of the tribes expressed concerns about how the program was operating in a sacred space.

Kate

At this point, we're going to explore an oral history conducted by Paul Hirt of Arizona State University. We're going to listen to clips from his interview with Kurt Dongoske who has been involved with the Glen Canyon Dam Adaptive Management program since 1991. Kurt was the director and principal investigator for the Zuni Cultural Resource Enterprise and often represents the Zuni tribe on issues related to River management.

Kurt

Anyways, so when I was at Zuni in 2008, um, a Zuni religious leader came in and asked me, “Are they still killing fish and the Grand Canyon?”…………….I said, yeah. He said, “That’s not right. They should stop that.” And I said, “Well, why?” And he explained to me, well he explained to me this story….. 

Clip from Zuni in the Grand Canyon film

The Eastern travelers came to the Little Colorado River where the Haiyutas warned them that as they crossed, they must hold their children tight. Then in the middle of the river, they children began to turn into water creatures. Fish, turtles, frogs, and snakes. Some parents dropped there children into the water where they were lost. They mourned but when they came to the place of the Co Co they heard singing. They were the spirits of their children. Thus all aquatic life are the ancestors and kin to the Zuni People.

Kurt

That event: that all aquatic beings are Zuni children, are viewed as Zuni children, whether they’re native or not native doesn’t matter. And so from a Zuni perspective, you are killing these fish, you are killing Zuni children. You’re killing beings that Zuni has a special relationship to.    

Kurt

I think there’s a lot of, a lot of benefit that western science could take from the Zuni perspective of this sense of stewardship in the sense that the environment that you’re dealing with is composed of multiple sentient beings and that your actions on that environment have consequences, long-term consequences. I think it would make scientists much more respectful of the animals they handle, how they treat them, how they deal with them, what sorts of projects they want to design.   

Kate

Let's hear from another oral history of Leigh Kuwanwisiwma who was director of the Hopi Cultural Preservation Office for thirty years. He is the leader of the Hopi Tribe and has been involved in the Adaptive Management Plan in Grand Canyon on the river since around 1989.

Leigh

The big one is the electrocution of those trout. That was a big controversy initially to Hopi cause we were the only one who commented on that proposal. So our record stands that one the initial area that they were going to zap those trouts by the thousands was right at the Confluence, you know, a sacred site. A very sacred site to us. You know. And it encompasses this kind of concept of the spiritual domain. So, well, it’s our finality, as I told you, it was also the beginning of our spiritual life. I one day hope to become a Cloud Person to visit all of you people. That’s how we believe. So it’s the beginning of life for us. So, our [road noise]– I said to Kurt, you know how I would best explain it? Is that they kill all these fish. They’re taking life away from living creatures. And Hopi, when they do their prayer feathers and prayer offerings, it’s for the perpetuation of life. It’s not for the end of life. Nah. So even though that proposal had a purpose, because the effect on the humpback chub, and overpopulation, you know, it just didn’t sit well with me (road noise and wind noise). If they dare do that, it’s going to create this aura of death. That was our argument.

Rebecca

As many people know, Grand Canyon is sacred to a number of native tribes in the area. And our work was, you know, it, it has significant impact to, to non-native fish in Grand Canyon and that was of concern particularly to the Zuni tribe. The work that we're doing in Bright Angel Creek which is removing the brown and rainbow trout, was of concern to the Zuni Tribe. Their, a very sacred place to them is Ribbon Falls. And so it was through lots of consultation with them and other tribes that it was decided that all, all fish that we remove from, from Bright Angel Creek or, or otherwise, will be safe for human consumption. So all of the fish that we take out of Bright Angel Creek we clean and freezer seal and then we'll take that fish and it becomes, we’ll fly it out and it's available for, for others, you know to, for human consumption. We've delivered fish to Zuni as well as Hopi and Navajo. Some of the smaller fish that we remove from the creek that's not easily cleaned we’ll freeze and we’ll give that to tribes for their ceremonial eagles. And so we delivered fish to Zuni to their aviary, we've also delivered fish to Navajo to the zoo there. So we try you know, as much as it's feasibly possible, to, to save any of the fish that we, we take from the creek or the river and give, you know make it available for people or, or animals, other animals. So I think that's really important component of the work we do. You know there's just a lot a lot to consider when we do any kind of conservation or restoration work in Grand Canyon, and there's I think it's important to recognize the other, the tribes that hold it sacred.

Kate

The damage caused by Glen Canyon Dam is done. So now what do we do after the fact? How do we manage a degraded ecosystem? How do we protect the resulting endangered species and how do we do so as human beings with a respect for life? These are the negotiations we face. In December 2020, National Geographic published an article “Human Made Materials Now Equal Weight of All Life on Earth.” A quote from the article reads, “The total weight of everything made by humans from concrete bridges and glass buildings, to computers and clothes is about to surpass the weight of all living things on the planet.” Many theorize we are about to enter a new era, the Anthropocene, where humans are the dominant force shaping the planet. At the start of the 20th century, the mass of human created stuff weighed about 35 billion tons; today it's 1.1 trillion tons. That means every person generates more than their own body weight of manufactured stuff in one week. As countries across the world continue to develop in a global economy, over the next 20 years that stuff is predicted to double. Projects like Glen Canyon dam are exponentially growing all over the world. Creatures like the humpback chubs are being driven to the brink of extinction. Places like Grand Canyon National Park are some of the only safe havens left on earth for plants and animals, places they don't have to worry about crossing the road or having a house built in their backyard. Let's wrap up with a question we can all ask ourselves. How do you balance the stuff you need with cultivating a richer life? My name is Kate and thank you for joining us on another episode of Behind the Scenery. We gratefully acknowledge the native peoples on whose ancestral homelands we gather as well as the diverse and vibrant native communities who make their home here today.

Acknowledgments:

Special thanks to Paul Hirt of Arizona State University for his permission to use his audio from the GCDAMP Oral histories he conducted.

Special thanks to Kurt Dongoske and Leigh Kuwanwisiwma for their support in using their interviews.

Special thanks to the fisheries team for going above and beyond in both interviews and collecting audio in the field.

Thank you to Jan Balsom and Mike Lyndon for support in the podcast development.

Produced by Ceili Brennan and Kate Pitts.

Music and sound engineering by Wayne Hartlerode. Special thanks to Joe Scrimenti for contributing his song “Invisible Present.”

Welcome to the water world at the bottom of a mile-high desert! In today’s episode, we'll explore how the Glen Canyon Dam changed the Colorado River through one story about wildlife struggling to survive in a damned world. The big picture of development invites you to consider ongoing inquiries about how to balance the stuff you need with the life you want to see.

Valentine's Day Episode: A Canyon Romance … Times Three

Transcript

Good day, and welcome. My name is Becca. I am a National Park Service ranger, working at the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park.

Today I would like to share with you a Canyon Cut brought to us by Ranger Doug.

Ranger Doug has a story to share … a story of love, romance, and the Grand Canyon. The title is: CANYON CONNECTIONS A Canyon Romance … Times Three!

I will let ranger Doug introduce himself. This … is his story.

My name is Doug Crispin. I’m 68 years old and I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

This is a story of my first visit to the Grand Canyon. I was 17. This was like the Chevy Chase classic station wagon family visit to the Grand Canyon. We left Southern Calif there actually three generations of us including our Grandma. She didn’t ride on the roof! She actually rode in the passenger compartment. The family ended up at Mather Point for the first time. We walked out. I can specifically remember looking down into the abyss and thinking “wow, This is awesome, this is great. The Grand Canyon is just really really cool.

So I asked my parents … just drop me off and leave me. Which they did!

But the back story is I went into the employment office and Fred Harvey, the park concessionaire, and I got a job working as a Bus Boy at the famous El Tovar hotel. Then I asked my parents to “drop me off and leave me”, which they did! And I spent the rest of my summer living and working at the Grand Canyon. How cool is that?

Now, the job itself, you know, wasn’t very good: busing tables, and working six days a week, split shifts, take home pay 93 cents an hour.

But, I got to live and work at the Grand Canyon so I told my roommate, Elmer, I said, we get off work at 10 o’clock tonight. And we have one day. Let’s hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon.

We loaded up our packs, and we headed straight down the Canyon when we got off work. Got down to the river maybe 2, 3, 4 in the morning, something like that. Had a quick snooze on the beach and then continued all the way down to Phantom Ranch. I can remember stripping off our clothes and jumping into the swimming pool located at Phantom Ranch.

Looking all the way back up to the rim and thinking “wow, this is great, this is the life. Swimming at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.”

Now we couldn’t enjoy it for too long, because we had to hike all the way back up and go to work the next day, which we did. But after my summer work season ended, I stayed on for another four days. And this time I took a more leisurely trip, all the way down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Camping the night at Indian Gardens, as well as Phantom Ranch. And more swimming in the Phantom Ranch swimming pool. Loving life!

After … when it was time for me to go back home, I handed my camera to a tourist along the canyon rim. And I said, now watch … I’ll give you a signal and I want you to take my picture.

Then I carefully climbed over the rim, which you are not supposed to do these days, I had found a little limestone opening, a natural rock arch and I crawled down over the rim, sat crossed-legged in this opening and I waved at the tourist and he took a couple pictures of me.

Because I had a plan.

I wanted to use that picture of me at the rim of the Grand Canyon for my senior Yearbook picture. It didn’t make the scrutiny, unfortunately, of my Yearbook Committee. But nevertheless, I didn’t care. It was my senior class picture taken at the Grand Canyon.

I made small little copies, wrote corny sentiments on the back like seniors do, and handed it out to all my high school friend.

That introduced me to the idea of living and working in the Grand Canyon which I thought … or in any national park, which I thought was pretty cool at the time. Now a few months later, on Veterans Day, I talked a few of my friends into driving all the way out, in November, to visit the Grand Canyon for the first time for three of my buddies. Now we needed a place to stay, and again, don’t do this today, it’s not legal, but I found a small, abandoned miner’s tunnel just below the rim, not too far from the El Tovar Hotel … maybe a mile away. And that’s where the four of us rolled out our sleeping bags. And for Veterans Day weekend in 1969, we slept in an abandoned miner’s tunnel. Had a great time. All my friends loved the Grand Canyon. And were very envious of me getting to spend the summer there in the park.

Two years later I talked a friend of mine into hiking rim to rim to rim, which we did. And on our way up from the South Rim headed towards the North Rim, we camped at Cottonwood Campground. I was 19, my friend was 18 which put us at prime draft age as the Vietnam War was still raging in 1971. I was politically opposed to the Vietnam War, but, you know, if my draft number came up, then I would be faced a very important life decision. What’s going to happen? As luck would have it, the draft lottery selection occurred while we were at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. And spending a night in Cottonwood Campground, we met some hikers who had just hiked down from the North Rim. And they had a current newspaper with them that they were getting ready to burn in their campfire. We snagged that newspaper from them and we were able to look up our draft numbers as they had printed the draft lottery results. And that is where I found out, that my name would probably NOT going to show up on the Vietnam Memorial Wall in Washington DC, which today contains over 58,000 names. So I have a very close attachment and affinity to Cottonwood Campground, in the bottom of the Grand Canyon, cause in a way, that kind of saved… may have saved my life, and saved me from going to Vietnam.

I was starting to acquire and … an affection and a love for the Grand Canyon at a very early age.

On that rim to rim to rim hike, I collected a small bottle of Colorado River, dirty, muddy, water as we crossed over it the second time. I took that back and had it for all these years at my college desk. Occasionally I would shake up this bottle and turn it all muddy. And a day or two later, I would see all that Colorado River sediment had settled out at the bottom. And that’s how I kind of remained connected to the Grand Canyon during my college years.

Now when I graduated from college, I still on my mind, on the idea of working for parks as a possible career. I worked in another park concession job, I worked as a volunteer national park ranger, I worked park maintenance jobs, and eventually worked my way up to a permanent national park ranger job, which was, you know, a childhood dream of mine. In 1979 I started dating a former Grand Canyon National Park summertime ranger who had worked at Desert View as a fee collector. I met her working in parks in South East Utah. We started dating. And we started building a romance.

A couple months after we started dating in ‘79, I got accepted in 1980, to go to the National Park Ranger school located at the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. I was so impressed, my girlfriend would drive 250 miles, one way, from SE Utah, to visit me on her weekend. I thought that was a very special women that would do something that … just to see her new boyfriend. We continued to grow spiritually together, we started to have a spiritual connection to the lands of the American Southwest, the peoples, and the stories. And two years after my Grand Canyon ranger school, my friend contacted me and said “hey, I have permit to take rafts through the Grand Canyon. I am planning a 23-day trip. I would like to know if you and your girlfriend would to join me? I am only taking seven people, and six of the seven or either current or former national park rangers?” I said “heck, yea man, let’s go.”

So that was a wonderful time to spend together, my girlfriend and I. Twenty-three days sleeping on a tent on sand bars, doing day hikes, fighting the rapids, and enjoying the Grand Canyon as only the way that rafters can.

And two years after that I proposed to my wife and we actually got married, standing right on the rim of the Grand Canyon. A place called Shoshone Point. I can truthfully say that was one of the happiest days of my life.

After getting married on the South Rim, we drove all the way to the North Rim spent our first honeymoon night together in a cabin at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. And we continued to spiritually connect with each other and the Grand Canyon.

A short time after that, I did leave the National Park Service, I moved to Oregon, and we bought a house. We had a child and we started a family life. Eventually I retired from my State of Oregon job. My wife recently retired from her career in education and we started making plans together like retired couples do. My wife remained healthy for about three weeks, and then she got sick and suddenly died about four months later. And that happened last year, which, you now, obviously, completely turned my whole life upside down.

So … people have different ways of dealing with grief and loss. How do I deal with it? Well the first thing I did was I shaved off all of the hair on my head. I couldn’t look in the mirror and picture myself as the same person again. I wanted everybody to know whenever they looked at me that I wasn’t the same person again. I had suffered too serious a loss. Grief, kind of like your hair slowly growing back … maybe it could help get through this loss and grief, you know, about as fast as your hair grows, which isn’t very fast. And then last year, on the Anniversary of our wedding, I made a pilgrimage to Shoshone Point. And walked out there. Sat quietly by myself on the very end, had a quiet moment. I said a prayer for my wife and thought of those 40 great years that we had together.

But, I was facing an uncertain future. Or, you know, some people said no future. You know, you lost … I lost my life partner. My whole life had been turned upside down. So I was contemplating: what should I do with my life?”

Grief counselors usually say don’t make any radical or sudden decisions after you suffer a loss. I had made the decision that I did not want to lose my national park career. That’s my third love in life. Let me backtrack a little bit. You know, I had an early exposure to the Grand Canyon and what park work may be. I started at the very bottom working my way up, and eventually, you know, served in five different national parks in five different Western states. And I was a career national park ranger in two separate national parks. When I left the National Park Service and moved to Oregon, I continued in my park career. I was an Oregon State Park ranger. I stayed in the profession. A total of 25 years I worked as an Oregon State Park ranger. And I retired … when I retired from that job, with my wife’s blessings, I returned to working as a summertime ranger for the national parks.

And since I retired, it was 11 summers ago, I’ve worked in eight different national parks. So if you put all that together, my career has taken me to about a dozen Oregon State Parks, 13 national parks. I have been in the park profession for a total of 48 years. I did not want to lose that profession. I had already lost my life.

I love working as a park ranger because I am helping to preserve the best of America. Some people call national park rangers “America’s Storytellers”. They’re guardians of nature, and of history, and of culture. You know, there are many great professions in the world … you can go into medicine, you can go into education, but I like to call park rangering one of the last great American professions. And I did not want to lose that.

I made the drastic decision after my wife died, I’m going to sell our family house, which we had lived in for 25 years, and devest myself of all of my worldly possessions. I took some duct tape, I measured off a 4’ by 7’ rectangle in the garage, which is the size of my pickup truck bed, and whatever I wanted to keep in my life after my wife died, I put it in that little rectangle. If it didn’t fit in my truck, I ether sold it or gave it away or otherwise got rid of it.

I worked with my supervisors … my old national park. They wanted me back. They said, you know, “take whatever time you need for grieving.” I said “the sooner I could get back, the better, cause that will be a measure of normalcy in my life.” Because I like doing the ranger walks, I like giving the ranger talks, leading the tours, giving the campfire programs in the campground. Giving out hiking advice to people in the visitor center. Helping the park visitors being connected to the parks. I was very anxious to get back to that national park lifestyle.

This year is 51 years since I worked as a bus boy at the Grand Canyon. So in a way, you know, I have come full circle with my life. Bookends. Started my career now I am working as a summertime park ranger here at the North Rim of Grand Canyon. In a way, I feel I am honoring the memory of my wife. And, I am rekindling, and keeping alive my park connections by wearing my ranger hat every day.

Some people say “ranger Doug, you know, why do you keep doing this? You’re Age 68, you have Social Security, you’re on Medicare, you don’t need this for finances. Why do you keep coming back? And I tell them, because, you know, I’m surrounded every day by inspirational scenery. There are very powerful stories in the national parks concerning the people, and the places, and the times. And I want to be part of sharing that story with the American public.

And, let me just give you an example of how special national parks are and how they have been so special in my life.

I have witnessed Old Faithful geyser erupt 350 times. I have hiked to see Rainbow Natural Bridge 91 times, hidden in a remote corner of Southeast Utah. I have seen wolves, grizzly bears and moose, sometimes in the same week, at Grand Teton National Park. And for a whole month as a volunteer ranger, I fell asleep every night in my tent, to the sound of Yosemite Falls, off in the distance. And I’ve climbed wooden ladders, stone steps, and I’ve entered Cliff Palace cliff dwelling in Mesa Verde National Park, a total of 142 times. And sat there and admired this ancient village and the story represented by these folks. And today, I enjoy a Grand Canyon sunset every day. It is a part of my life. The park ranger profession is my third love and it allows me to have these and many other unique and special experiences.

What would I say to the person contemplating coming out to visit the Grand Canyon, or any national park for the first time? You know, I would say Go for It. Give the Grand Canyon a chance. Or any other national park. You know, the Grand Canyon doesn’t care about your race, your age, your gender, your economic situation. It doesn’t care what your immigration status is, your sexual orientation. You know, just stand by the rim of the Grand Canyon and gaze into it. Watch the sunset on the rim.

Be inspired. Be wowed. You know, be humbled. We need places like this in America, where, I like to say, you can recharge your emotional and your spiritual batteries. Will visiting the Grand Canyon for the first time change your life? Probably not. But it could! You know it happened to me.

My name is ranger Doug, I’m a park ranger at the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park, and I approve this story and message.

Before we go, we have a final invitation for you. Think about somebody you know. Somebody in your life. When the time is right, set aside a moment with that person. And ask. Ask them to share a story about their life. Then listen.

This has been a Grand Canyon National Park micro podcast. A Canyon Cut

Entitled CANYON CONNECTIONS A Canyon Romance … Times Three!

I’m ranger Becca. Ranger Doug, thank you for sharing your story and your voice. And to all those listening, near and far, thank you for your time.

At age 17, future park ranger Doug’s parents dropped him off at the Grand Canyon. How did this experience shape his life, and what are his three distinctive canyon-influenced loves and romances?

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