So good afternoon everyone this is a park ranger Chris Barr here with
Reconstruction Era National Historical Park we've got here with us Dr. Hilary
Green, professor of gender and race studies at the University of Alabama and
is also the author of a book called "Educational Reconstruction" and so we're
going to do a really short chat with Professor Green about her research
and her book and let's go and dig in here. First off thank
you for joining us today. Thank you. Well as I said I you
your book Educational Reconstruction, you know obviously it's a
reconstruction book and so one of the things I'm always fascinated with with
Reconstruction historians is sort of what was your path to becoming a
reconstruction historian?Aa lot of people sort of become Civil War buffs
because they saw a movie or went to a reenactment or a park or something
like, that but you know people kinda have a different path into reconstruction so
what was your path to becoming a reconstruction historian? So it was the
family portrait that connected me to the Civil War and why reconstruction? Again I
wanted to know what happened to these communities when there's no longer
bondage. In the case of my mother's family they were free people of color
what happened to these small rural communities after the Civil War? And
what looked like that so for me it was those family connections and trying to
find my place and my identity within the family and then also to just the stories
I've heard on family portraits got me interested and curious and moving that
way. Yes well very cool so you mentioned the study of
rural communities well you know here in in Beaufort County a lot of our
local audience here is going to certainly be familiar with you know the
Penn school and sort of the the you know
agricultural communities that were here both before during in especially after
the Civil War and so you know the Penn School as you may know was established
in April of 1862 and and it sort of evolved into this more
agricultural type school. A lot of the schools that popped up around
here in Beaufort County during Reconstruction were farm schools. I
know your book, Educational Reconstruction focuses on sort of the
study of Education in more of the urban environment so I'd like to hear
just a little bit about you know sort of what are some of those what are some of
those differences what does education look like in say a big city and how is that different from places like here in Beaufort County?
Because you're not pressured by agriculture so people they have some
diseases there's always in the lay the start but they're going to G and then
they have a clear three-month break and then they start up again and it's fine
the reasons why the city's schools are different because parents chose to leave
the plantations they wanted to provide something for their children other than
what they did under slavery and one of the biggest things where cities had a
lot of more wealth and you have actual class and more resources coming in that
they could have schools as a option for their children and they're always think
about their children and something different than doing agricultural
seasons so they have a longer school year they are actually in oftentimes
brick buildings and not what instructions and they will have white
teachers but also two schools in black churches and black teachers and a lot
educated african-americans who stole their education during slavery the first
teachers and a lot more activism over the say over the school
so they're trying to be more of a partnership rather than a top-down Bible
education spot to them they really are engage that way okay well so so I guess
they kind of you know kind of just thinking a little bit out loud here you
know a lot of the schools that were here in Buford County whether that was the
Penn school or the Mather school out on Port Royal Island you know a lot of
those were were initially set up and even throughout Reconstruction managed
by you know sort of northern aid societies like the American missionary
Association you know so what what role does some of these organizations and
stuff play during Reconstruction in some of those and some of the more more urban
environments like you like your research focuses on yeah was very I looked at
they were one of the more dominant organizations but then you also have the
American Baptist on society home Mission Society Episcopal into other more
diversity and Quakers and cities so cities offered opportunity for a variety
of Norden organizations to get involved but also to lack denominations the
African Methodist Episcopal Church and the African Methodist Episcopal Zion
Church will also be involved so you have instead of one organization like the AMA
dominating wine rural community you will have about 10 to 16 in a city so more
schools for parents and children to get educated so one of the things you'll see
it our parents bouncing off ideas and they will move with their feet so if the
Quakers are offering a black teacher and cheaper tuition they're going there to
type something out to pay for fuel and then they'll go back to the one that's
closer to them in the summertime where they can do so they're moving around
constantly play off one another and using these northern philanthropies to
benefit their communities and uplift everyone but you start seeing them
choosing between people and it's kind of fun to watch
over here so the Quaker schools I can't help but imagine that you know that if
you're a student right you're one of the one of these kids maybe you were
formerly enslaved or your parents were formerly enslaved and it's you know kind
of that just trying to find that consistency a little bit of okay well
I'm at this school for for August and you know September over here in October
November now I'm moving back I can imagine that that led to some
interesting curriculum choices at times
traveling throughout the city so they're not is restricted into one particular
place so I think one of the things we talk about a lot in the Park Service is
the idea of relevancy and sort of finding kind of modern and modern
connect things that we can relate to and and you know this any of the kids being
flexible and the parents are the ones that definitely feels like week we could
very much be talking about sort of modern modern education a little bit
sometimes so in your research you know I know you should specifically focus on a
couple of different cities you know what are some of those cities that you choose
to focus on and what are you know maybe some favorite you know a specific story
or people or event or just something that when you when you first read it or
researched it you know you kind of like oh my god that story you know it's gonna
you know what's that what's that favorite story from your research yes
Richmond Virginia and Mobile Alabama and the reason why I did Richmond I was very
interested in what is the former capital of the Confederacy doing and how some of
the buildings that were used for the Confederate government actually become
schools and you have schools and old slave pens and this is where a lot of
the Norden organizations want it to go because they're like we can remake
Richmond we succeed it and then I picked Mobil
because of Mike Fitzgerald's book on urban emancipation and I realized there
was very few cities very few studies on Alabama and I'm like oh no feels
interesting I don't know much about this city but it's not Richmond and they are
where Richmond had the best of everything mobile was fighting for
everything so my need be scrappy underdog fighting for every little game
that they got so it was nice to contrast both of them so for Richmond my favorite
story has to be a reunion of now educators so they started in the
freedmen schools and then the early public schools and now there are adults
there attended like the Alumni meeting of their normal school and they're
talking about the daily rock fights that they had with the white children walking
to school okay you know these plays of who was it was like this is a classic
highschool reunion but it's their normal school reunion and animaux be on my
favorite where after the American children during their recess and it
happened to be next to the cemetery where white women are decorating
Confederate graves so they decided to see their top of their voices John
Brown's body I love this white women who are decorating the graves of Confederate
soldiers they're like well we're free yeah we're gonna see as much as we can
but their teacher Maria Waterbury who is a white woman from Chicago who comes
down to teach she cuts her resource the recess short gives them the stirring
lecture and they're like dropping the rocks on the way the like cuz they're
gonna continue doing some like that I just started smiling like that's such a
child that you can tell a bigger elementary school children thinking
about how can we just wrote this thing and then getting chastised by their
teacher and then going through that but a fascinating how much that song
John Brown's body seems to pop up throughout reconstruction I saw a couple
of days ago you know that wasn't well Brett why should doing this interview
here we're physically recording on April 3rd which incidentally is the
anniversary of the fall of Richmond so we're noting but one it's going to be
the case when this broadcasts but but a few days ago was the 150th for the
ratification of the 15th amendment and I remember seeing a newspaper reference
talking about I think was in Lawrence Kansas
you know people parading through the streets singing john brown's body and
you see that song pop up a whole lot throughout the reconstruction here
things fascinating how people kind of cling to that song a little bit we are
now free and we're celebrate this and it's a resurgence and a reinterpretation
I find but I found it interesting that these school children who learned in the
classroom and they can the challenge the previous power structure so from
children to adults it's beautiful absolutely absolutely well um so one
thing that uh that I want to ask you here though so you know you're certainly
one of the one of the the leaders here in this field of reconstruction history
which really feels like in the last few years it's really kind of taken off yeah
I remember when I was even an even when I was an undergrad I mean it felt like
there wasn't that much reconstruction stuff out and now it's sort of you know
seems like it's everywhere a little bit which is really exciting and so you know
kind of what's what's next for you in this field of reconstruction history
sort of what you say you've written on on schools and urban urban centers and
so sort of the me and other question is well what's next for you I
remembrances of the Civil War and it really is a reconstruction inside but on
the Pennsylvania side and how different communities build upon
sweet remembrance of the Civil War reconstruction and use it as a political
tool during the time here so I'm moving across time and space so I'm sorry and
hopefully my last chapter will be on Charleston and discovery of the 20
bodies and that reinterment so each chapter will move forward in time
different communities and in all of it reconstruction is a part of it and
schools are part of it but the other one which is my campus history research will
be a more traditional study so I'm looking at the experiences of enslaved
people at the University of Alabama so it will be experienced during
Reconstruction and why find fascinated Allah the former enslaved people at the
University of Alabama became the first teachers during Reconstruction in
Tuscaloosa public school teachers individual who was enslaved on campus
and he dies as a superintendent of colored schools during Jim Crow
oh cool well you know sort of you know here at Reconstruction era National
Historical Park we're always looking for those connections back to Buford County
and so you mentioned just a few moments ago the discovery of those remains in
Charleston 54th Massachusetts and it's worth noting that but recalled us those
individuals are actually reinterred here at Beaufort National Cemetery so uh so
next time you are here in the area we hope to see you out at the park maybe
get you set up to do one of these in person at the Visitor Center once we get
reopened may have teak may have to go out and pay a visit out to the National
Cemetery yeah because of family I always stop by
the cemetery and I always go back there so and this is where that Boston and
South Carolina connection comes in right being born and raised in Boston and then
having South Carolina roots so for me Buford is always a part of my education
and my journey to be in the scholar oh very cool well we're we're glad that
your journey is taking you to being a scholar especially focusing on this on
this subject so again we can't thank you enough for taking a few minutes out of
your day here to chat a little bit about reconstruction we'll put a link to it
but in the comments when we post this but but real quick you know your book is
educational reconstruction if somebody's say quarantine adhering
this pandemic and it's just really interested in reading your book you know
where where can they can they get your book okay very cool I will put a link to
the University Press site in the comments here or in the post rather so
so if anybody's interested begin thank you for for tuning in and everybody and
we hope to see you back out at the park here once once things sort of return to
normal a little bit and I thank you dr. Greene thank you