Frank Hays Interview Page 2

CHUCK SMYTHE: Yeah, so [you were] thinking about that as you came in to work that day and that morning. Did - did other staff members share similar perspectives?

FRANK HAYS: I think we all knew that this would thrust Manzanar - and not so much Manzanar, but the story of the Japanese-Americans in to the limelight again because there were obvious parallels between the two events - Pearl Harbor and 9-11. And, I don't know that we even tried to develop a strategy at the time to deal with anything. I guess we just were going to see what happened and then proceed from there. It wasn't until later on that we wanted to make sure that when we interpret the site that we at least attempt to allow the visiting public to make the connection between today's events and 9-11. So - …

CHUCK SMYTHE: How did you start making that connection specifically with interpretation?

FRANK HAYS: Well, the exhibits aren't open yet - we're still in the planning and design [stage]. But I think that one of the alternatives to look at is to have a kind of a temporary exhibit that would have newspaper clippings about current events and kind of a question to the visitor about how how Manzanar relates to the current events. And then, you know, when our interpreters are on site or whenever I've given talks around the local community and the time has been appropriate I always, you know, try to make a connection saying, you know, when I talk about Manzanar and why it's a National Park unit and why it's relevant and not only as part of our history, but relevant in discussions about today's events. I always try to talk about and [make] the connection between 9-11 and Pearl Harbor and depending on the group go from there. Try … to let them cogitate or think about how the events are related.

And some groups we may - [for example] there was a Rotary club talk I gave soon after 9-11 and there was … this person [who] actually thought that Japanese-Americans - it was fine that we put them in the camps and [he] felt like the same should happen with Arab-Americans. And, we started a discussion about the Constitution and due process and topics like that. And … I said, you know, if a person was charged with a crime like spying or whatever and was given [his] Constitutional rights … or then put into … confinement, I don't think anybody would be talking about Manzanar right now. But this was wholesale evacuation of the whole [ethnic group] solely because of their ethnicity and not based on any kind of factual evidence. And none of them were ever charged and so forth. And we got in to a discussion about the Constitution and the value of the Constitution and this person truly valued the Constitution. And when he thought about it more I think he was moved to maybe change his opinion a little bit about how our approach should be with Arab-Americans. And you don't automatically round them all up and through them in to camp just because they're Arab-Americans so - …

CHUCK SMYTHE: Oh, that's great.

FRANK HAYS: Yeah, it was a moving experience for me because you just feel how relevant this site is when you can have a discussion like that with someone and have them at least think a little harder about their opinions. And I think that's all we can ask the public to do is to think a little bit harder about how we approach things. … And … the interpreters always tried to, you know, talk about why this site is relevant today - pre 9-11 and now post 9-11. So I think that's always been an attempt to talk about the relevance of the site. Just because it's been such a controversial site and many people have advocated that it's a part of history that we should just forget and not memorialize it. … And so the site already lent itself to those types of discussions anyhow. 9-11 just provides a common context that everybody pretty much has some intense emotional tie to that it almost makes the job easier to explain the relevance of Manzanar and what happened here. So … interpretation along those lines [has always been going on], but even more so now.

CHUCK SMYTHE: That's really interesting. You were mentioning American flags appearing. Did that continue for a while?

FRANK HAYS: For a couple weeks and then it quieted down. The other neat thing - there was a lot more of the Japanese cranes that from my understanding symbolize peace, left at the site - at the cemetery site, on the fence, on the actual monument. But just from personal observations I would say the amount of the cranes that were left out there probably doubled or tripled.

CHUCK SMYTHE: Wow, that's interesting. And you assume that Japanese-American people [were] doing that?

FRANK HAYS: Yes, I would guess. And again, I'm sure if nothing else they were reminded more of their own experiences in the Japanese-American community. …

CHUCK SMYTHE: [After Sept. 11,] did you get calls from the press like you thought you would?

FRANK HAYS: We had a couple calls. … CBS News did a piece with Charles Osgood on the Sunday morning show. One of the corespondents came out with Mas Okui, a former internee here at Manzanar and they did an interview of Mas that day. And the purpose of that particular piece was to make a connection between 9-11 and the Japanese-American experience after Pearl Harbor. And that was actually one of the most moving days I've had at a park because Mas Okui is just an incredibly eloquent, articulate man that, you know, I've really enjoyed whenever I've had time out on the site with them just to walk around and talk about his memories and so forth. And the correspondent was interviewing Mas and we were near the tour road and a elderly couple came driving up and I went over to - and, you know, there was the film van there and everything. So I went over to talk to the couple and tell them what was going on, you know, CBS News and so forth. And simultaneously Mas had finished up his interview and walked over and I introduced Mas to this couple. And I said, you know, this is Mas Okui, he was a former internee here at Manzanar and they started talking for a couple minutes and all of a sudden the gentleman in the car got tears in his eyes and he just said, you know, I'm so sorry for what our government did to you and your families, and drove away. And I was just like, oh, man. Talk about how this place has a sense of place in history that you know we need to - we don't want all of our visitors to leave crying, but we want all of them leaving thinking about what happened here. And that gentleman - that couple certainly had a powerful experience. And of course that was facilitated by Mas being there. …

CHUCK SMYTHE: Can you think of anything else I didn't cover or didn't ask you about?

FRANK HAYS: Just that this year's pilgrimage [an annual event involving former camp internees] included - and we work with the Manzanar Committee [with] a woman by the name of Sue Kunatomi Embri, she's been kind of the founder and the inspiration of the Manzanar Committee for years and was a prime force to see this site get higher and higher levels of protection and recognition. Anyway, the committee organizes the pilgrimage and [for] this year's pilgrimage they invited somebody from the Muslim community to come talk to the audience. And that was a particularly moving talk because he was making direct parallels about there [are] so many … Arab-Americans that have been taken from their families and not been charged with anything over however many months it's been now and haven't been in contact with their families and nobody knows what's going on with them. And it's not as wholesale an event as was with the Japanese-Americans, but there are similar things going on at least from their perception. And, I haven't done enough home work to know how much this is really going on, but from his experience which I have no reason to doubt, there's quite a number of Arab-Americans going through similar experiences that the Japanese-Americans did. …

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